Part 1 of 2 #106795 by thomas billis

•  Cyrena the bsasic problem with discussing this war is that on the national political level we can never get the debate where it should be.

THOMAS:

I agree wholeheartedly, with your entire post. We have been unable to steer the debate to where it should be, because the Cabal has been able to define the terms/language of the debate. Yet, while no interviewer “challenged” Alan Greenspan on the truth of his assertion that the wars against Iraq and the middle east are about control of the oil, that STILL has not changed the terms of the debate, or provided any of the proper discourse that should be happening on the national level.

Alan Greenspan isn’t the only one to come forward and bring these truths to the forefront, because there are thousands of everyday people that are aware of this. But yet, they do nothing (or little) to push the issue forward, because of the personal risk involved. I accept that as well. Still, it’s simply not enough for us to say that ‘until the American people wake-up and realize” this will go one. At this point, how are they going to wake up and realize, until at least a certain percentage of us, (and far more than we’ve got going now) are willing to force that ‘realization’ into the public’s eye? Maybe more importantly, how are we going to make all American’s understand that WE THE PEOPLE, DO have Agency?

There is ONE GW. There is ONE Cabal, controlling the entire debate. And, while that Cabal is indeed large and very powerful, there are STILL more of US, than there are of THEM. I often hear this phrase from some of my younger colleagues, “’They’ aren’t gonna ‘let’ us”. Well, that’s self-defeating in and of itself. And yet, it is the thing that they’ve been told to believe, and so it’s a self-perpetuating cycle of remaining stuck and hopeless, in the box that the Mob has designed to keep everyone in it’s place. There is a REASON why the history of black slavery in this nation included –as a major technique- PREVENTING any literacy of the slaves. Knowledge (reading, writing, etc) is among the most powerful of group and individual empowerment. Communication with each other, is also a most important tool. So, American’s aren’t going to ‘wake up and realize’ anything, if they are intentionally programmed to prevent that from happening, or if the rest of us are ‘too afraid’ to speak out, so that we CAN change the terms and language of the discourse/debate at the national level.

TBC

Part II of II #106795 by thomas billis

Now, the book that you recommended is an excellent place to start. (Kevin Phillips – “American Theocracy”) I’m glad you reminded me of it. I read it some time ago, and didn’t suggest it to the people that would most benefit from it, because I knew they’d be resistant to any of it’s suggestions. But, I’m going to suggest it now, because I can see that as time has gone on, they will likely be more open to it now.

I would also like to recommend Michael Moore’s latest documentary – SiCKo. It provides far more than just an examination of our broken health care system. It explains WHY it is so broken. One of the most profound concepts –put shortly- to come from that film, (at least that I zeroed in on, since I already pretty much KNOW why our system is so bad) is a simple comparison between our OWN socio-political structure, and that of other nation states. Put simply, it goes like this….

In other countries, the GOVERNMENT is ‘afraid’ of THE PEOPLE. In OUR country, THE PEOPLE are ‘afraid’ of the GOVERNMENT. And by the ‘government’ I mean the CORPORATE STRUCTURE, the RELGIOUS INSTITUTIONS, as well as that admittedly dangerous group of Criminal Thugs in DC.

And, what happens –even right this moment- when a few brave ones come out to speak this truth to power? Well, ‘we the people’ begin vilifying and demonizing them. Remember Cindy Sheehan? What did the ‘majority’ do to her? I got a message from a very dear friend, (good, decent, hardworking American) claiming that Cindy Sheehan was – Spreading Hate- (and of course, it was attached to some Bible verse). Now, here was a woman who gave up everything, to share with the rest of us, what she herself had learned, as a result of losing one of her own children to the meat grinder that is the US military. The woman undertook a mission/project that would literally bring me to my knees. The travel schedule, and just all of the damn WORK involved. And yet, this was the response, from ‘good and decent’ people.

You can find the very same thing right here, and right now, on the TD thread about Jimmy Carter. He’s talking not just ‘humanitarian ideology’, he’s talking about the LAW, and what should be our commitment to it, those ‘principles’ by which we should all live. (or at least that we ‘claim’ to live by) And, while some of the responses are in fact what they should be, there are just as many who immediately attack him, and bring out all sorts of things to distract the argument/debate/discourse –from where it should be-!!!

So, I said that to say I guess, that I agree with what you’re saying, but I think it has to be followed up with some action, and the action has to be collective. And, it begins with helping people to become aware. The book you recommended is excellent, but I’ve leaned that a large percentage of the population who need be aware, aren’t into reading anything, even though they know how.

For them, maybe the films are more helpful, which is why I’m highly recommending SiCko. (and no, I’m not shilling for Michael Moore, or any particular ‘movement’) I’m recommending it as one of many ‘enlightening’ tools for empowerment. Knowledge is empowering, as long as it’s the TRUTH.

#106824 by Louise

I forgot to mention ... when you’re ready to publish that paper, I hope you let us know [from whatever secret witness protection program you are in] so we can read it.

Louise,

You’re DEFINITELY gonna know (about the paper) because not only am I counting on you to HELP, you might even have to provide my protection. (you don’t think any government program is gonna ‘protect’ me, now do you?) Nope, we’re gonna have to do a Daniel Ellsberg type operation.

Truth is, while you so generously noted ‘my’ contributions to Truthdig, I am enormously grateful to Truthdig for providing this forum. It’s taken this – them – their own courage, to make it available, as well as those contributors like yourself, to put information here, that no one single one of us could otherwise know.

Matter of fact, there’s all kinds of relevant information that you’ve posted youself, (like the Sooter –used to be Liewbowitz- Libby connection. And, that’s just one of the many things you’ve offered, that I most certainly wouldn’t have known.

And, the mere fact that you like to ‘hunt’, and find this stuff, and that you stay with it, means that you’ll have to sign on as an author to this paper. (one witness protection program can cover us all).

So, I’ll try to figure out how to send a PM myself through TD, (I have tried before, but never can originate one of these messages, though I have been able to receive them, and then respond via that same channel) I’ve never much worried about it, since nearly everything that I post should be (and is intended for) the entire forum. At the same time, I know that the forum is not a vehicle for personal exchanges of information that not all would be interested in.

I also wanted to add that I don’t (personally – from an academic standpoint) believe that you need to “give credit’ for every single word or phrase you might find. It’s enough (in the intellectual/scholarship/integrity rules that you have (and do) site your sources, and can back up your arguments, and you ALWAYS do.

So, if ya want a job that doesn’t pay anything in currency, we can be co-researchers. Even if you don’t, I still need the help. I was thinking maybe we could hook-up with Gramma and start a senior scholars club. (those nosey old ladies, always trying to ‘find stuff out”);) And, we’ll accept middle aged and young scholars as well. Oh, don’t cha just love the thought?

My own grandma would be so proud.

GrammaConcept

Truthdig notified me. Took me a few minutes to figure out how to open it [duh ...] but I finally did.

Thanks so much

cyrena

I forgot to mention ... when you’re ready to publish that paper, I hope you let us know [from whatever secret witness protection program you are in] so we can read it.

We wont blow your cover ... promise

To Louise…#106683…
I sent you a private message through this site, though I just realized that I do not know How one is notified of this…hope you do…;-)

Part 1 of 2 reply to #106478 by thomas billis

•  It is not our kids.We have put them in a situation where there is no way to tell who is your enenmy and these kids under so much pressure and extended deployments are doing what they think will get them home alive..Vietnam deja vu.It is the policy not our great kids.The bone to pick is with George Bush.That smug arrogant draft dodging moron who put our kids in this situation.

THOMAS:
I’m willing to agree that it is not ‘our kids’ (or…at least not MOST of them – there are in fact some exceptions, and those exceptions shouldn’t be ignored). And, while we all certainly know where the ultimate responsibility lies, (less with GW even than his handlers) I think you have ‘more’ –correct- when you say “WE”. Yes, WE (or most of the American public) has put them in a position to not know the “enemy” might be. Because the fact of the matter is that there never was an ‘enemy’ IN IRAQ, aside from Saddam Hussein, and even HE was NOT, - I repeat NOT an ‘enemy’ to this very same Cabal – ie, Rumsfeld, Regan, Cheney, back in the day. Matter of fact, they were good buddies. (I can direct you to some sources if you like).

But, my point is that –WE- every single person who failed to stop this, (when we could still pretend to be a democracy) are responsible. How many of us were out there with our old asses –Vietnam déjà vu- BEFORE this war was allowed to take place? I was there yes, and my family members were there…knowing full well, that we weren’t gonna let our kids go. NOT because we aren’t patriotic, because I have more family members that have served in the military than anybody I know, if only because it’s an abnormally large extended family. And, I’m talking 4 generations that have served in the military. So, that should be real clear.

STILL, it IS the fault of each and every citizen, who blindly allowed their loved ones to be sent into harms way, without checking out a damn thing. Because, as GW will consistently tell you, us, anybody…”we have an all –VOLUNTEER- army. RIGHT..the same 1% of the population, ‘volunteering’ over and over again. National Guard fighting a war 6000 miles away. What’s up with THAT?

And, we can’t say that we ‘didn’t know’ it would work out this way, because from the beginning, A senator and a congressman sponsored a bill to reinstate the draft, and of course nobody wanted to hear that. Well guess what? Do you think we’d be in this war if the draft were in place? Hell no! “Not MY kids” is what they all say. And if there had been the possibility that any of “their kids” might have to be put in harms way, this shit wouldn’t have happened.

But, it has, and exactly for the reason why those guys introduced the legislation to begin with…they KNEW that the majority of the wear and tear, death and loss, would be carried by people of color, and the poor. And, that is what has happened, and we’ve continued to allow it. Multiple deployments of the SAME small percentage of troops, over and over again, while the majority of Americans look on.
We sent them in there totally unprepared; 18, 19, 20 year olds. Do you have any kids this age? How ‘attentive’ are they? Even my collection of geniuses has to be reminded to take their lunch, or wash their clothes, or get their study stuff together. And of course they’re great kids. But they still don’t know a damn thing about combat, or war. So what the hell were –we the people- thinking, when we ALLOWED them to ‘volunteer’? (and naturally, I’m speaking of those who have volunteered since 9-11, who could have known before that…we weren’t in any wars).
TBC

Part 2 of 2
So, I’m putting this (especially at this point) on every single citizen that blindly accepted the word of these Criminal Thugs in DC. It didn’t take a genius to at least question this aggressive invasion and occupation of Iraq. And yes, while I understand completely, that the average person wouldn’t have necessarily been inclined to check the stuff out, our Congress members should have, and…THEY DID NOT!

Our Secretary of State (at the time Colin Powell – who also knew better) went along with it – for politics sake. Colin Powell knew that Saddam didn’t have WMD, and more than likely, Hillary Clinton knew it as well. So, I’m not even buying the deal of putting it all on GW, which really should be on his handlers anyway; The PLANNERS of the war, planned long before the Coup of the 2000 de-election.

So here we are, nearly 5 years into the Iraq atrocity, and there’s no putting it all on GW at this point, seeing as every single body in this country, should be thinking twice, and checking stuff out, and….they have NOT. And for those who HAVE shown the bravery, and taken the risks to refuse to serve in what they know is an illegal war of aggression, they get raked over the coals, and who among us, even bothers to defend them? Very few. Instead, we remain silent, or even add to the vilification. (Ehren Watada is the best known example of this, and what they’ve put him through, in order to scare –send a message- to anyone else who might think of ‘defying’ this illegal war, based on what our laws clearly state).

So, we could put it on GW for a minute, when we were still all shocked and awed, but that doesn’t excuse remaining silent for all of this time. It DOES require some bravery though, and we haven’t had THAT, because Americans are all about –themselves- long as it’s not MY kid/spouse/parent/sibling/etc etc. And for those of us old enough to KNOW, did we not LEARN anything from Vietnam? One would have to say, apparently not.

So, as long as this is still an alleged ‘voluntary army’ WE are responsible as hell. Responsible for not making our leaders accountable. Responsible for not calling a halt to this bullshit long ago. Surely our kids are doing what they think will get them home alive. And just as surely, we should never have allowed them to go there in the first place. REGARDLESS of what GW and his masters said.

And for failing to educate ourselves in the past 5 years. The British have left Iraq. Our OWN kids have been hollering for rescue for at least 3 years, and what the hell have we done? NOTHING! (or, at least it’s just the same small few of us, over and over and over again.) Nobody else wants to take the ‘risk’ of speaking truth to power, and so the few who DO, are easily enough targeted/silenced/or otherwise picked-off by this mob. Talk about not being able to tell who the ‘enemy is’. How about, the….EMEMY IS US?! The enemy is every single person who ‘remains silent’ in order to cover their own asses, or chooses to ignore the truth, so they can send Bible stuff through the mail, and tell themselves how righteous and God-like they are.

Below:
This has been going on for years now.
US Army Lowers Its Recruiting Standards
  By Aamer Madhani
  The Chicago Tribune
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/101107D.shtml

This too…they’ve (the British) completely left Basra, which is now much quieter as a result.

The Los Angeles Times:
Even the British Are Leaving Iraq

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/100907B.shtml

Marines Press to Remove Their Forces From Iraq
  By Thom Shanker
  The New York Times
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/101107L.shtml

cyrena

Thanks for the kind words, but I’m really not a great [or even good] writer. I’m just a very stubborn person who has had to live my life by the rule of common sense which leads me to conclusions that seem so obvious to me, I have difficulty understanding why they are not obvious to all!

But when I need to articulate them I have to go hunting for someone else’s words ... and freely borrow. I suppose I should start giving credit, but I take a thought from here and save it. Then another thought from there and save it. And eventually put it all together in what appears to me to be a cohesive collection of information that backs up my opinions. But, and this is an important but ... I always make sure I can back everything up with a credible source and documentation. Unfortunately there’s never room in a post to “post” it all.

Oh, and I have to add, because I love to hunt and love to learn, every time I hunt I learn something new. So even my opinions change from time to time. But that after all is why we are here ... isn’t it? To learn.

You on the other hand are writing freely from your own heart and head and hand and that is to your credit. You are one of those posters that give truthdig the reputation of having intelligent participants.

Now, about that paranoia thing. As others have said and I agree ... if you’re not paranoid, you’re not paying attention!

Thanks again.

#106618 by GrammaConcept

“.......................war IS
terrorism…................”

*
You are absolutely right! War Is terrorism. So what should we call the Global War On Terror?

The Global War On War?

Ridiculous isn’t it? The only true Global War On War is represented by the thousands who took to the streets before the war demanding it never happen. And take to the streets still, demanding this war end!

But thousands isn’t enough. It will take tens of millions!

Only when people refuse to spend money on any and all products controlled or related to the war industry. Only when people demand their elected or appointed government officials demand change or get out of town. Only when the military refuses to fight a war of aggression. Only when the hubris and stupidity and greed that drives this nation brings us to bankruptcy, or heaven forbid actually being forced to defend OUR shores from an actual attack from an actual foreign nation. Only then will the people in this country learn the true meaning of humility and gratitude and hunger for peace. Because for all the protest and all the fear and all the anger ... nobody can motivate with great enough resolve to bring MILLIONS into the street!

And that’s what it will take ...

*
“I know I talk a lot, but at least I keep saying the same thing….....”

*
No, you don’t talk enough!

Every voice is valuable and senior citizens especially, because they have the advantage of experience and hind-site.

Thanks!

PartI of II response for #106511 by Louise

Louise…

Thanks so very much for the excellent (as usual) essay. The links are particularly helpful, since I’m doing a paper that keeps getting longer and longer. (I might need to go into a witness protection program to get it published). And yep, I’ve been studying up on this Just War Theory myself. It’s complicated in that we know the original theory can hardly exist in the age of nukes. Still, the law reads that the invasion and occupation of Iraq was illegal, immoral, from the start. Yep, Colin Powell knew it. But man oh man, haven’t they just been able to do so much of ‘presenting’ this to the American public? With NO questions?

I’ve only recently accepted (at least to my own satisfaction) that the same thugs perpetrated 9-11 as well. I don’t believe there was a single solitary ‘ARAB” terrorist involved. “Terrorists” – yes – just not a bunch of ARAB ones, under the direction of OBL or any of the others. CIA Terrorists under the direction of Dick Cheney is far more reasonable. (and I doubt they were Arabs/Muslims) So, the thing that pisses me off more than anything, is that they expect us to swallow this shit.

Here is one of the many excerpts from your essay that I hope the TD readers focus in on…

•  Counterterrorism and war propaganda are intertwined. The propaganda apparatus feeds disinformation into the news chain. The terror warnings must appear to be genuine. The objective is to present the terror groups as “enemies of America.”

The ‘disinformation propaganda’ has been STAGGERING, when viewed in hindsight. I mean, it f-ing WORKED!! How many folks were thoroughly ‘shocked and awed’ and continue to be? Even if we only take ONE component –like the loss of our own civil rights, and the total breakdown of our Constitution – we see what they’ve been able to accomplish, even BEYOND the excuse to perpetrate wars of aggression (to steal natural resources).

And you’re right too, about the fact that we can pretty much accept that the average citizen would be fooled. It’s been that ‘effective’. But, for Congress to be so ill-informed, is possibly the worst of the entire thing. And of course I should mention that former members of Congress who DID do the research, and DID speak up, are no longer members of Congress. Other ‘skeptics’ have met with bad ends as well. (I say this stuff, and of course I’m immediately labeled as ‘paranoid’. So be it. I probably am, it’s just that it’s for very good reason(s) and not just the standard paranoia that has been ‘created’.) Matter of fact, sure would be better if I COULD chalk this all up to an ‘individual instability’ It would definitely make MY life easier. I’ve become really frustrated with those who I’m sure should know better, or at least be able to reason this through…at least with the obvious stuff, like the WTC towers being ‘blown-up’ (and not by jet fuel) and the fact that there was no possible way that a passenger aircraft hit the Pentagon, and no possible way that any of this stuff happened as they say. So why is everybody so damn silent on it?

TBC

Part II of II reply to Louise 106511

Anyway, thanks again for the links. I’m gonna check ‘em now. Another really good work (that I’m still reading, though I’m nearly done with it) is by Lawrence Wright. “The Looming Tower – Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11”

Now, I started reading this maybe 5 months ago, when I was only just becoming skeptical about the al-Qaeda link to 9-11, and he’s obviously writing from the view that they were in fact ‘involved’. But, I read it anyway, (and it is an excellent work) because I was still trying to figure it out. I was, at least at that point, looking for the reasons “WHY” they would have perpetrated this atrocity….and I knew damn well, (from day one) that it wasn’t about our alleged “freedoms”. At least not our ‘freedoms” here in the US. If it was about our ‘freedoms’ it would be those ‘freedoms’ that the US exercises all over the globe – the hubris and ‘freedoms’ to conquer and rule by force…and to send it’s military anywhere they feel like going, and stay forever. (the USS Cole comes to mind, since they were illegally docked or whatever you call it, in Yemen when they were attacked.)

So, I said that to say that I was looking for some sort of logical reason for WHY these ‘al-Qaeda” types would undertake such an operation against us, even though I knew full well, that it had NOT happened the way the official report claims. So, I didn’t know HOW but I was trying to find out –WHY- (very backwards, I know. But hell, I needed to start somewhere) Lawrence Wright makes a very good case for WHY, which is probably why the lies created by the Cable have been able to float and deceive, based on the propaganda that they’ve continued to put out. (like that last video with a fake OBL – PUHLEESE!!).
So we get ‘why’, except of course that now I’m sure that they did NOT do this operation, because logistically, it would have been impossible, and so the whole thing falls apart.

Still, it’s revealing in the sense that the Cabal was able to use a portion of a ‘truth’, to build the story/cover.
We can’t deny the incidents of earlier ‘terrorism’ (The African Embassies – just to mention a couple), but now…who knows about those either. Nor can we deny that bin Laden is a religious fanatic, like the 40 million or so “near enders” operating here in the US now, based on these same notions of ‘fundamentalism”. Who am I more ‘afraid of’? You guessed. I’d take Osama over any one of those weirdoes in a heartbeat. That means I never bought the religious argument from the beginning; all of that wanting to establish a Caliphate and the rest of the BS. Still, Wright’s book goes way back to Sayyid Qutb, and provides an excellent account of the entire history, and how the ‘real’ al-Qaeada came to be formed, (which was a merger of bin-Laden’s very SMALL operation with the goals and ideology of Ayman Zawahiri’s even smaller operation…bin Ladens bucks)

So, I think that’s what made the story sold to the US so believable, even to those who might otherwise question it. (not to mention the sheeple who simply follow the lead, or aren’t even ‘connected’ to the thing at all).

Another excellent book on the GWOT is Richard Falk’s, and I think he calls it the “‘Great’ War on Terror” (rather than the ‘Global’ WOT) Excellent. Another one, (closer to what we’re talking about now, and the connection to the subsequent events of 911) is by Nafeez Mosaddeq Ahmed. “The War on Truth: 9/11, Disinformation, and the Anatomy of Terrorism.” He’s done another one since, though I’ve not yet gotten to it.”

Ok, I’ll wind up. Pretty amazing though, (and scary as hell) that an entire Congress doesn’t seem interested in knowing any of this. Scarier still, that they apparently don’t WANT to.

.......................war IS terrorism…................

I know I talk a lot, but at least I keep saying the same thing….....

war is no answer to no thing….this Truth will, inevitably, prevail…

Believe It…...This Will Help….Do Not Despair.

God Is still Love, all war is always hell…....Strive On, Please…

Love and Warm Comfort,
GrammaConcept

Don’t worry, they’re all Al Qaeda members even pregnant women and children. Just ask yourself who’re terrorists ? and the war against whom ?

Bush/Cheney and all of their gangs have answers.

cyrena
Thanks for the excellent links. Here’s a couple more:

Fake Al-Qaeda
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fakealqaeda.html
Calling the so-called terrorist network in Iraq, or anywhere else, al-Qaeda [going to the toilet] is very appropriate, because “they” are shitting allover us!

The belief, that Jordanian militant Abu Musab al-Zarqawi organized “al-Qaeda in Iraq” is dubious, given that Abu Musab al-Zarqawi’s alleged activities are dubious.
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/zarqawi_woodenleg.html

Al-Zarqawi was created as the al-Qaeda leader in Iraq in an effort to link Saddam to the terrorist network alleged responsible for 9/11. [Remember Powells speech to the UN?] The need to make the American people complicit with the unnecessary attack on Iraq required the wide-spread belief that Saddam was responsible for 9/11.

The propaganda campaign essential to the eternal continuation of the Global War On Terror [GWOT] must present the leaders behind the terror network at the level of an advertising campaign. The success of GWOT rests on the creation of one or more evil terror leaders, and the perpetual belief that their organization al-Qaeda, [now al-Qaeda in Iraq] is bent on our destruction.

US intelligence has created its own terrorist organizations. And created its own terrorist warnings concerning the terrorist organizations which it has created. In turn, it has developed a cohesive multibillion dollar counterterrorism program to go after these terrorist organizations.

Counterterrorism and war propaganda are intertwined. The propaganda apparatus feeds disinformation into the news chain. The terror warnings must appear to be genuine. The objective is to present the terror groups as “enemies of America.”

The underlying objective is to galvanize public opinion in support of America’s agenda for eternal war.

The global war on terrorism is presented as a “Just War”, which is to be fought on moral grounds to redress a wrong suffered. The Just War theory defines “good” and “evil,” and portrays the terrorist leaders as “evil individuals.

Prominent American intellectuals and antiwar activists, firmly opposed to the Bush administration, are nonetheless supporters of the Just War theory:

[Most of our congress and presidential wannabes subscribe to this “just War Theory” which shows how little time they devote to truly informing themselves. We can excuse the general population for their ignorance, but there is no excuse for congress!]

To reach its foreign policy objectives, the images of terrorism must remain vivid in the minds of the citizens, who are constantly reminded of the terrorist threat and al-Qaeda. The news reports never mention that Al Qaeda is a creation of the CIA, and that Osama bin Laden and ever regenerating associates are creations of the US intelligence apparatus.

The press presents the terrorist warnings emanating from US Intelligence as genuine, without acknowledging the fact that US intelligence, has provided covert support to the Islamic militant network consistently for more than 20 years. The training camps in Afghanistan were created during the Reagan Administration and set up with the support of the CIA. The recruitment of foreign fighters was under the auspices of the CIA. Members of the current and former Bush administration, including Richard Armitage and Colin Powell were directly involved in channeling support to Al Qaeda in Afghanistan.

Citizens sick of hearing the “terror” and “al-Qaeda in Iraq” crap tune out. But our troops placed in harms way have little if any access to the truth. They are the ones under threat. The fantasy bad guy has to be kept alive, to keep them fighting.

Hence, the killing of the “suspects” and the innocents. They follow orders.

The real criminals in this enterprize called GWOT are safely back home, enjoying their power and counting their money!

And we the people and our congress, to our eternal shame, allow this to continue!

#106388 by James Ortega on 10/11 at 6:27 pm
• 
I read the BBC report on this and what bothers me is they go in and kill “suspected” insurgents.

Good question James Ortega,

I’m personally glad that you asked, just because I’ve been ‘following’ the –killing- of ‘suspected insurgents’ for nearly 4 years now. In this destruction of Iraq, (illegal invasion and occupation) the killing has been going on since the beginning.

Initially, the US media would only call them “terrorists” or “insurgents”. Every now and again, just for a change I suppose, they would be labeled as “rebels” In reality of course, they’ve all been ‘civilians’; Iraqi civilians, fighting against an invasion and occupation. Needless to say, they don’t ‘look’ any different from civilians, especially from the air. They don’t have on special shirts, or arm bands, or tattoos on their scalps that say, ‘insurgent’ or anything else. And at the beginning, they didn’t even have weapons. (of course in the nearly 5 years since, we’ve provided ample supplies of them).

So, for the US military, as well as it’s private corporate support staff, (Blackwater and Assoc) anything moving on the ground in Iraq is an ‘insurgent’. The only time they bother with a ‘count’ at all, is when the media notes the women and children that always die as well. That’s when they throw a little math our way, (and even then, you’ll rarely find it in the US main-stream media), which is why this is a BBC report.

That means that for counting purposes, (like now that they can’t just ignore these entirely, because at least some media has gotten wise to it) ANY Iraqi is an ‘insurgent’. So, in this incident, like all others, the counting will be dead women and children, (now that they count them) and all others will automatically be ‘insurgents’.

I should add that ‘suspected’ is an optional term. They sometimes use it, and sometimes don’t, because there’s no difference…it’s just linguistic diversity. They shoot, (or bomb from the air) with no distinction.

And, not to depress you further, but we do that here in the US now as well. (only we call ‘em ‘terrorists’ still over here, when we shoot innocent people at airports, or other public places. And yeah, women and children included.

I agree with your own understanding, about us not killing ‘suspects’ in the past.(at least not here in the US) But, after 5 years of indiscriminate killing of ‘suspected insurgents’ in Iraq we’ve begun to do the same thing here, so our understanding or perceptions of this concept that avoids killing ‘suspects’, is apparently outdated.

I’ve included a link to an explanation on the “MYTH” of ‘al-Qaeda’ in Iraq. In short, they aren’t. (like maybe less than a full compliment of a standard urban gang, that has infiltrated from another neighborhood, though in the case of Iraq, they’ve come from other nations). Still, there’s like a handful of these ‘terrorists’ in Iraq, who have only arrived since the invasion.

There rest are all civilian Iraqis, and we’ve killed over a million of them by now. Men, (over the age of 16) women (frequently pregnant ones) and children of both sexes. If they can be seen from the road or the air, we just shoot. (their only hope is to stay inside, and within the concrete barriers that the US has erected around various neighborhoods. If they venture out, they’re fair game to both ground and airstrikes by the US military and their mercenary private cohorts. They don’t hassle with the details of the count, unless their forced to.

Tom Engelhardt:
Having a Carnage Party:
We Count, They Don’t
                http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/100307E.shtml

The Myth of AQI
  By Andrew Tilghman
  The Washington Monthly
                http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/100107D.shtml

The airplane pictured with this article is an OV-10 Bronco.

The OV-10 Bronco which has retired from US military service since 1994.

OK, “Intelligence” located “al-Qaeda in Iraq” an organization that may or may not be as bogus as “responsible leadership” in the White House.

Keeping busy chasing phantoms, like arms smugglers from Iran, al-Qaeda in Iraq, and the ever illusive liberation for democracy!

Or maybe we should call this “winning the hearts and minds” one dead body at a time.

So, 19 “insurgents” and 15 innocent civilians - including NINE kids were killed.

We know everyone killed, except the women and kids were insurgents or al Qaeda in Iraq.

We know this, because “Intelligence” has told us so.

But it doesn’t take intelligence to figure it out. It’s pretty simple really.

If it runs, panics, freezes or fights back, and it looks like an Iraqi male ... it’s the bad guy.
Quick shoot!