Mike, sorry to burst your bubble,I was a kid over 5 decades age, though I look a lot younger than I am. Also purp reminds me of my former employment as in taking care of (perps, male prison-med.sec.).I may not have served in the military,but did work in law enforcemant with the captives on the homefront.I believe in free speech,but try to stay on topic sometimes,makes it more interesting and if I skipped over your comments that would be the day I would miss someting good you posted and now one of you guys will say I’m off topic.Thats because I am answering you all.And yes I realize that Chelsea Clinton or Amy Carter didn’t serve,but their fathers were not so war obsessed.If the prez feels it is so important,by all means send in your own G.W., it’s probably the only way to end this war.In fact he should go himself.
And yes C.Y. It’s a great day for a color tour.Did that today on the way to the powwow in Jackson Michigan, which by the way we honored all the veterans,something done at every powwow across America in Indian country,just to lend some support to our warriors and let them know we are there for them.We may hate the wars,but we love our warriors.And for those who didn’t know the firefighters and the law enforcement officers on the homefront are recognized also along with our veterans at many of these events, as they maintain safety and security on the homefront.And I never considered myself as a liberal as you guys might think.Gee,I don’t know if I should feel honored you thought so.
Chill,guys with all your male pheromones floating around out there in cyberspace you may just turn all of the women on out there.
              Peace

Part 1 of 4
Puplewolf:

Thanks for bringing this thread to my attention. As you may or may not have noted, I never even read it, as soon as I saw it was about Jenna Bush, it wasn’t worth it…if only because there’s so much else going on, and the bush off-spring are a non-issue. Nothing that comes from either one of them is worth bothering with, and I don’t know why anyone would even bother interviewing them. Just like I don’t know why anybody would bother reading her book, aside from the fact that we (the taxpayers) have paid for its publication.

So, that’s probably exactly why the entire thread has devolved into this same waste of time, with ideologues digressing into their own typical personal ideological views. And,  because of all of the insanity that has crept into our lives as a result of this administration, it’s not even surprising. We are all devolving back to a Hobbsonian society. Nearly, (not all, but nearly) every comment here, is about the “me” instead of the ‘we’. And, while we (at least in academia) often use the period –historically- of the 70’s and even 80’s as the “Me Generation” the truth is that it never went away. People are still stuck in that ‘me’ instead of ‘we’ and that is of course to the detriment of all, because not everyone has the same understanding of ‘we’ or ‘me’ or how they even connect.

The other problem, -maybe the main problem- is the LANGUAGE. Cy describes himself as a conservative, when in fact it’s NOT ‘conservative’ in the standard or old school way of thinking. Repuglicans have traditionally stood on what they call a ‘conservative’ ideology, but that obviously means something entirely different to different people. Because my own take is that the repugs of today, are HARDLY ‘conservative’, but RADICAL as hell!! We haven’t had a bunch this RADICAL in my lifetime.

In short, this gang has managed to make black mean white, and up mean down, -except- when it’s more convenient for up to really mean up –SOMETIMES- even though it can mean –down- when they want it to.

More than anything, people spend a considerable amount of time these days, RE-WRITING HISTORY, and giving it their own significance. Example is the focus on NAFTA, and the fact that Clinton is responsible for it. Yes, technically speaking I suppose he is. The agreement was cooked up under his watch, and he promoted it. But the real DANGERS, - the things that allowed NAFTA to be what it became, began LONG before Will Clinton became president. In fact, that demon was developed under the Regan Admin. Who could possibly believe that ‘outsourcing’ was new to the Clinton Admin? Oh no. I will tell you that it was NOT!! The changeover from a government of WE THE PEOPLE began long before, and I’m not even going to put that part on Nixon. (criminal that he may have been). This oligarchy that now controls what is allegedly the most powerful nation in the world, began with Reganomics, and his phony ‘trickle down’ theory, that never materialized. The fact that Clinton didn’t HELP that therefore becomes beside the point.

And, there are other examples of this, (many) just in this thread alone. Gomer says this:
•  …..Typical liberal, squelch everything, if it doesn’t agree with you..

Here again, throwing around terms that don’t mean anything. ‘Liberals’ don’t –squelch- everything that doesn’t agree with them, but conservatives generally do. Yet, there is no ‘hard fast’ rule for that either. Again, anybody can use any term that they choose to use, to further their own ideological agenda, and then claim that they are being ‘fair and balanced”. Is this the same guy who claims to be ‘liberal’ in some respects, like being pro-choice and pro-death penalty, all in the same sentence. (apologies if that wasn’t you). I don’t see any LIBERAL belief as pro-death penalty.

TBC

Part 2 of 4
And the same for the whole abortion/family planning issue. That could be well ‘endorsed’ as a conservative agenda, by ANY alleged ‘conservative’ –true conservative- who doesn’t believe that the GOVERNMENT should be dictating who can or cannot terminate a pregnancy. We can’t control who is “allowed’ to become pregnant in the first place, (except of course that we are aware of incidents of forced sterilization) but hopefully you get my meaning. The suggestion of ‘pro-choice’ or ‘anti-abortion’ shouldn’t even BE in the public discourse of any population that claims democracy and freedom of choice. And yet, it is a topic of extreme polarization in this country, and we’ve come to ‘assign’ conservative’ to the anti-abortion crowd, and ‘liberal’ to the pro-choice crowd. When in reality, I don’t understand how it ever came to be a ‘political’ issue to begin with. Does the general public get to weigh-in every time one of us is forced with a decision on whether to have a leg or an arm amputated? NO. That’s generally between the patient and his/her physician.

And what of the ‘death penalty”? Can those who claim to be in favor of it, provide even one ‘advantage’ to it? Well, the ‘advantage’ is to a certain ideology that embraces putative reasoning/behavior…ie REVENGE, PUNISHMENT, and social control through intimidation. In other words, they get some sort of a ‘good and righteous’ feeling of POWER, -self enhancement- from being able to punish someone with the ultimate punishment. “They did this to me and/or mine, so they deserve to die”. Does it really accomplish anything more? Of course not. And, anyone willing or able to get out of their own ideology, and really look at it pragmatically, would understand that. It’s why the US is one of only 3 ‘allegedly’ civilized countries (on the planet) that still practice it. It serves absolutely NO useful purpose for society-at-large. Not for a conservative or a liberal. Only the radical ideologies are served by this. Only the radical ideologies are served by any discussion of abortion. It simply has no place in a public debate, UNLESS it involves a collective need to finance those who DO NOT have abortions. i.e, those who would kill others who provide such medical services, (the rabid anti-abortionists) are the very ones who would REFUSE to approve of any collective assistance in the raising of those children. They are the anti-welfare types. NO, we won’t provide for children’s health care. NO, we shouldn’t have to pay for education for ALL, no we shouldn’t have our tax dollars going to anything that would help those who, in all practicality, probably shouldn’t have been born to begin with, at least not into a society that refuses to allow an equal opportunity for everyone to be able to provide for themselves. 

But, the ideologists tell you that “everybody has a chance at the ‘American Dream” and only after they’ve all decided what the “American Dream” is. And the “American Dream” has obviously changed. NOW, it’s become about simply staying alive. Surviving….at least for the majority. It goes without saying, that it hasn’t always been this way.

So, everybody has their own personal agenda, and it’s always about “me” and what is best for ‘me’, and so all discussions are now formulated around that ideology. They cannot or will not make the connection at the larger view. And the larger view is that when the rest of your society is handicapped, it eventually handicaps them as well. How beneficial is it, for me to have enough to eat, housing, clothing, and an education, if the majority of those around me, are without all of those things? Will they not be attempting, (as a matter of basic human nature) to satisfy at least their basic needs, by taking these things from me? OF course they would. It’s to be expected. If I am oppressing them, is it not to be expected that they would at some point rebel? Well, one would be stupid to believe otherwise.

TBC

Part 3 of 4

And, how useful is it to blame and judge, without viable solutions to a resolution? We can discuss all of these things, (and yes, I see where they’ve gone totally off topic here, but I also acknowledge CY’s point in that nearly ALL of these threads do go off topic, because it’s the nature of the discourse). But here, it was a red herring type topic to begin with, because Jenna Bush serves no useful purpose to the American public at large, so nothing that she would come up with, has any relevance to the rest of us. Comparisons to Chelsea Clinton or Amy Carter are also irrelevant, because the reality is that they were not of military age at a time when compulsory service was in place. They were not of military age at a time when our country was at war. They are also all females, and historically, we have simply never put females on the front lines of combat. NOT because women are not just as capable in fighting, but because the cultural ideology forced upon this country when it was highjacked by the Anglos, has dominated as one of male patriarchy that has pre-determined “warriors” as male figures.

Needless to say, THAT has all changed. There are now 16,000 SINGLE MOTHERS doing combat duty in Iraq and Afghanistan. They ‘signed up’ for the NATIONAL GUARD, typically, (to our previous understanding) to be a military branch that could and would be available to respond to DOMESTIC needs. (riots, natural disasters, etc, etc). So, how did they wind up 6,000 miles from home, and who is taking care of their children? (and never mind why they are single, they could be divorced, widowed, or never married…it is inconsequential to the subject at hand). The point is that they are there, and no one is the least bit concerned about their welfare, or the welfare of their children, for whom they obviously CANNOT provide, since they are 6,000 miles away.

As for the discipline that you speak of Purplewolf, I believe it is lost on those you address here, and has little to do with the alleged ‘discipline’ that is practiced in the military these days. Discipline cannot be taught in boot camp, or in combat, or in an institution such as the military. It can only teach the mass sort of mind control that allows for the following of orders without question. Any useful discipline is personal, and corresponds to principles, integrity, and an ability to practice SELF-discipline, even when it is not DEMANDED, as a result of the brainwashing. The Military does NOT provide that. All the military does, for the average person at least, is to teach them how to follow orders. It does NOT encourage independent thinking. That doesn’t mean that some military professionals aren’t capable of it, because that is not true. But, in general terms the military doesn’t provide any real sense of discipline. And when it begins to manifest itself, (on rare occasions) and military personnel, (at any level) actually do think for themselves, and begin to connect the dots, and make their thoughts known, they are inevitably squashed or denounced as uncooperative, undisciplined, or not a ‘team player’. Because, in today’s society, it’s nearly always the either/or mentality. Either it’s black or it’s white, even though we all know damn well, that there are more than those two dynamics/colors in reality. No one is ever encouraged to consider all that falls in between, or how one combination of those colors can result in so many others. So, that means it’s either right, or it’s wrong. And of course in reality, we know that it’s never that simplistic. Yet, that is the mentality to with the majority have been reduced.

So, there we have it. I’ve read through these comments, and most of them are a waste. Not because they’ve gone ‘off topic’ per se, because frequently that can, (and should IMHO) lead to a broader knowledge of what falls between the black and the white, or the right and the wrong, to get us away from the limiting mentality of the ‘either/or’.

TBC

PART 4 of 4

And for those, such as Gomer, who would claim to espouse a ‘middle ground’, there’s no reality to that either, because it generally involves ‘compromise’, and while that might sound like a useful concept, it’s really nothing more than the weak giving lip service to accepting the values of the dominate. So ‘compromise’ - as a concept, never holds up anywhere other than on paper. It amounts to ‘settling’ and in the end, nobody really has their needs or interests addressed. (just as an aside, that’s an ‘education’ that has come from any study of conflict resolution). But, it’s not to say that conflict between groups CANNOT be resolved. It can, but only when people have been able to figure out what their interests actually are. Like, putting aside all of the ideology and the rhetoric, what is it really that they hope to accomplish or gain for their own betterment? Most people (going into a conflict) need help even figuring that much out.

Anyway, this will be my only ‘post’ to this thread, for the same reasons that I never read it to begin with. There is the same type of discussion going on for the piece by Robert Scheer entitled “Dissent From the Front Lines” (though I may not have it exactly right) It’s still on the front page I believe, so you can find it easily enough. We’re bogged down there with what is a more deceptive (and still obviously contradictory) attempt to explain the unexplainable. But, it may be more worthwhile than this stuff, which obviously doesn’t appear to serve any real purpose at this point. That’s not to say that Mike and Gomer, and who else is involved, shouldn’t feel free to continue their exclusive dialogue, for their own ‘purposes’. But I don’t see it as being helpful to anyone else, or even anything that thinking people should get sucked into.

Matter of fact, Purplewolf, this is a PRIME example of the “wisdom” (from Maya Angelou) that I shared with you earlier:

-  Know when to quit a job
-  Know when to leave a lover/relationship
-  And I forgot the rest
Still, you get what I mean. This isn’t a conversation that promotes any ‘economy’ of thinking or shared reasoning. It’s just between these ideologues, and provides them with an audience (among themselves) to argue. I don’t see anything wrong with that, for whatever purposes it serves THEM. It just doesn’t serve any greater good, nor does it promote any enhanced thinking. It’s still examining the individual trees, without a clue to how it looks as a forest. They’ve got plenty of dots, and not a clue to how any of them connect.

The End

MILITARY OR NOT YOU STILL DON’T GET IT. THE ARTICLE WAS PERTAINING TO JENNA BUSH,NOT YOUR MILITARY CAREERS.IT WAS ABOUT HER ANSWERS AND ATTITUDE OF NON COMMITMENT TO THIS COUNTRY,AS WAS HER FATHER BEFORE HER WHO ONLY SERVED IN GHOST NAME ONLY.

TO GOMERSPILE-MIKE MID-CITY AND CONSERVATIVE YANKEE-

THERE ARE 129 COMMENTS POSTED AND YOU 3 HAVE TOTALED 93 OF THOSE COMMENTS. MOSTLY MIKE AND GOMER. YOU HAVE GONE OFF TOPIC ON THE MAJORITY OF YOUR COMMENTS AND AS FOR THE CLAIMS YOU WERE IN THE MILITARY, YOU LACK DISCIPLINE.ANYONE WHO HAD PROPER DISCIPLINE WOULD ADHERE TO THE TOPIC AND NOT GO OFF INTO LEFT FIELD AS YOU HAVE,ALONG WITH GEORGE BUSH,YOU ARE IN LIMBO.IF YOU HAVE TO CARRY ON IN SUCH A MANNER WHY DON’T YOU DO SO USING THE EMAIL TO COMMUNICATE RATHER THAN THIS SPACE.

THIS SPACE WAS SUPPOSSED TO BE PERTAINING TO COMMENTS ABOUT JENNA BUSH AND NOT YOUR ONE UP MANSHIP.

“BUT IF PEOPLE REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT IT,THEY WOULD KNOW ITS NOT A PRACTICAL QUESTION”

Truer words have not been spoken. People have thought about it you bimbo, why else would they ask. What did you do? Drink a whole bottle of PeptoBimbo so it dumbed you down to your daddy’s I.Q.? Being female is no longer an excuse no to serve your country. Besides, isn’t it about time for another heroic blonde bimbo rescue to incite the gullible for support of this war and wars yet to come?

Looks like the last several posts got sidetracked.

Jenna Bush had the help of a ghost writer on this book from what I saw of her on tv in an interview.In other words she is taking all the credit with none of the actual work.Sounds like daddy.

Laura Bush once a librarian.I still find hard to believe,especially since George bragged about his lack of reading anything.One of his 2 books he has read in his life,until recently if you can believe him,his favorite, The Hungry Caterpillar, he read after he graduated from college, is a childrens book and his children were to old for this level of book for him to be reading it to them.

George W. Bush served in the military in name only. He was on the campaign trail for daddy all that time.

Jenna and her sister could serve in the military and go in without all their secret service goons and probably not be recognized as the presidents spoiled brat daughters.It’s all the personal body guards that draw attention to them.If left alone in a crowd of strangers they would go unnoticed.Jenna could also go as a teacher and teach in Iraq,perhaps Drinking 101 and Erotic Clothes Design for beginners and use the dresses she and her sister wore at the 2004 election party for their daddy to give inspiration for the up and coming Iraqi designers of womens clothing.

Barbara,the social worker could help those unfortunate enough to have lost all that they owned thanks to daddy George Bush. She can aid them in finding a job,since most the Iraqi people have lost theirs since the start of the war thanks to her daddy,housing is a problem as the once owned houses were destroyed by guess again,her daddy.-getting clean safe water,once taken for granted now nonexistant, chalk up another one on the Bush side,electricity gone also,stike 4.Safety,a big issue,do the Iraqi people feel safer today since the war started or not? Match point.

George Bush in his first stolen term kept saying how safe it was for our military in Iraq.If it’s so safe why aren’t the twins there right now?

If these girls were made to serve in Iraq on the front lines,this sitting idiot would immediately stop this war.Period.

Conservative Yankee, my third paragraph was not in response to you, but to post 106605 by ‘G’

Re: All the posts blaming either the democrats or the republicans, all the posts stating that only the democrats or the republicans will save us, etc, etc, etc.

If you’re all as smart as you all claim to be, you all should know the filth of the human race rises to the peak of American politics and there is only ONE difference between any democrat or republican:

A republican rapes and robs you right out in the village square in broad daylight and laughs when you cry.

A democrat rapes and robs you behind closed doors and laughs at you when you cry.

So stop with all the phony baloney crap.  Remember the “oh so good” dems are lustily backing the “oh so evil” reps in their efforts to destroy every last vestige of the constitution.  The dems want to control you just as much as the reps.

Sorry to interrupt.  Just sick of reading so much stupidity.  The unbelievably corrupt American political system has you, yes YOU, in their back pockets if you are truly stupid enough to believe ANYTHING from ANY politician, democrat or republican.

No endorsement of a third party is implied, just pure disgust from watching my country go straight to shit for the last five decades and hearing the EXACT same STUPID shit from the populace.  You idiots never learn.

Jenna is not responsible for her dad’s failed policies. I’m a white middle-class history teacher who served for 10 years in the Navy. The military is not for all people. Yes, generally you find more people of color and people from lower economic backgrounds (on the enlisted side. Officers are a different story). But, I don’t feel that she should feel obligated to join the service. I do think that considering the family fortune she has it’s good that she is trying to do some good. Chelsea too is not obligated to join the military.

Yes, there are many people of various professions in the reserves. Some are doing so for the educational benefits they wouldn’t otherwise have. Some are doing it out of a sense of duty. Some joined the reserves to continue their time in service and work towards the retirement benefits. Still many others, like myself, joined the active/reserve military in hopes of finding a sense of purpose, discipline, or just finding themselves because they had nothing going for them out of high school.

I don’t like this war. I don’t agree with this war. But, one thing people need to ask themselves isn’t whether or not a politician should send his kids to war. Nobody wants to send their son/daughter to war. And, no parent does send their child to war. The decision is made by that individual. I made the decision myself. Maybe people should ask themselves why so few people today, in general, feel the need to participate in military service.

During the generations of our parents/grandparents (I’m 34) Ivy league law school graduates felt an obligation to join and did so in great numbers.  Do people feel that obligation to day?

Conservative Yankee , Jimmy carter also had three sons, not just a daughter. Both Ford and Reagan themselves volunteered for military service in WW2. 

This discussion is pretty irrelevant though. Children of US Presidents are sovereign individuals and free citizens like anyone else, not merely servile political tools. They certainly have no special duty to serve in the military just because their parents are politicians.

Arguments that anyone who supports the war should be in the military service are utterly silly and juvenile also. That’s like saying if you support law enforcement and believe crime prevention is worthwhile, that you should quit your chosen career and become a police officer…or else you are a coward.  Sorry, but that is just asinine.  Military service is a career choice,  and just because you appreciate those who serve or support their efforts in a particular conflict does not obligate you to chose a military career yourself.  People have no obligations except to themselves in choosing a career.

RE:#106586 by Gomerspile

Let’s see…Gomer’s pile.  Hmm…that sounds shitty to me.  Enlighten me here “Gomer’s pile”...you’re saying you ARE “Gomer’s” pile?  Is that a turd or a hemorrhoid?

#106552 by Gomerspile

....If I dont like it I change the channel,not try and get it banned.If my kid needs a slap in the ass for screwing up I’ll give him one. I don’t need a village to raise my family.I don’t smoke,and I don’t really give a shit if you do, just dont expect me to pay for your healthcare.If you have to be on welfare you need to keep your dick in your pants or your legs closed,and you should be required to take a drug test to collect welfare,I have to take one in order to work. There are more I will list later….

i for one would like to hear them. keep them coming.

#106499 by jatihoon

Sins of there father should not be bestowed on its children.

sorry to disagree with you. but, when the children are cashing in on who they are they deserve to get punished for it. it works both ways. she could have kept her mouth shut and avoided the press as best she can. but no, she is on a what right now? that’s right, a book tour. pimping her book coast to coast in order to sell more books and make more money. do her fellow school teachers have book deals? no. they dont.

My god, now you don’t have to answer ?? you don’t think are practical.  That’s free speech for ya.  I would have been inclined to ask for a follow-up: “Jenna, what do you think was impractical about my first question?”  20 something and already a master.  We’d better have the water at the WH tested; something in it causes arrogance.  In fairness to her highness, though, she is busy with her book tour.

Sins of there father should not be bestowed on its childreen.

Yes, Jenna and Barbara should have signed up immediately after graduation.  Same for Dick’s kids and the rest of their offspring.  I wonder if military recruiters are allowed on the Pat Robertson college campus…...

get your ass over there and get your rifle and get to work you whiny little bitch. clean up the mess your father has left for the rest of us. the British royals all get to go to the sandhurst military academy. i have a little respect for them and NONE for this asshole warmonger president (not mine!) and his spoiled little bitch daughters. would anybody give you a book deal if your name was smith? i doubt it. you deserve a boot in the ass and a foxhole to hide in. a lot of servicemen and women get little more.

Of course it is highly practical, as well as a potential national security risk,  because she is the daughter of the President of the United States.  Why do you think she has her own Secret Service protective detail here in the US? 

If the child of any sitting President was captured and held hostage, the President could be psychologically compromised to the point that he/she might no longer be able to rationally carry out the duties as Commander in Chief (not that Bush does that anyway).  Depending on whether the President was willing to temporarily cede power to the VP in such a case, the situation could touch off a Constitutional crises.

Even more obvious, Jenna would be the ultimate liability to any military unit she served in, or for that matter any Iraqi school, hospital, etc.  She and those around her would be constantly targeted by an enemy trying to kill or capture her.  In Iraq, I would expect a a tidal wave of suicide bombers going after her.

For these and other reasons, it is a very bad idea for the child of a sitting US President to serve in a combat zone.

106292 by James H. Quinn….......YES REPUBLICAN QUINN, WAXMAN DID SERVE…KOREA,. VIET NAM, BERLIN WALL BUILD UP, ASSISTED U-2 FLIGHTS OVER RUSSIA…HOW BOUT YOU SISSY ???

I say Jenna Bush should go. However I say since she voted for the war in 2002 Mrs. Clinton little girl Chelsea should go also

Serving in the military is so “little people.” My son is in the army on his second tour in iraq. bush sucks, all of the bushes.

Yeah its non-practical to be born lower-middle class or born a minority or born without a silver spoon in your mouth.  If you are in any of these categories your chances of getting to go to Iraq to get your brains blown out are pretty good.

Not much information on Laura Welch Bush’s ancestry but the exploitive, compassionless side for Jenna must come from Barbara (let them eat cake) Bush and George H W Bush (CIA, insensitive as pres). Most of W’s brother were exploiters, if not thieves, and users (Neil and the Silverado S&L;, Networking ties with Saudi oil for all, and Jeb’s free loan thru Broward S&L;). So Jenna might have a chance on her mother’s side.

Forget the military. All of us wouldn’t have our offspring serve.

In spite of being the offspring of W, Jenna seems reasonable and well-adjusted, except for seeing no fault in her feckless father. But that is understandable. Even with the few drinking incidents, she appears normal and perhaps will carry the common sense of her mother, while exhibiting some measure of compassion not seen in her father.

THE NON-PRACTICAL QUESTION IS YOUR DADDY..