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Ear to the Ground

Carter Has Had Enough

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Posted on Oct 10, 2007
Carter
cnn.com

Jimmy Carter was en fuego during a chat with Wolf Blitzer on Wednesday, blasting the Bush administration for torturing people, the GOP candidates for racing to the fringe and Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama for refusing to commit to a full withdrawal of troops from Iraq.

The former president’s indictment of America’s torture policy was particularly scathing. A White House official responded to Carter’s comments by saying, “It’s just sad to hear a former president speak like that.”

It’s also sad that, as Carter put it, “Our country for the first time in my lifetime has abandoned the basic principle of human rights.”


CNN:

Responding to the newspaper report Friday, Bush defended the techniques used, saying, “This government does not torture people.”

Asked about Bush’s comments, Carter said, “That’s not an accurate statement if you use the international norms of torture as has always been honored—certainly in the last 60 years since the Universal Declaration of Human Rights was promulgated.

“But you can make your own definition of human rights and say we don’t violate them, and you can make your own definition of torture and say we don’t violate them.”

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By ender, October 12, 2007 at 11:39 am Link to this comment

Sounds like Dr. Cole and his little buddy Jeffrey are still stuck in Bushworld.  Shrub has gone to war for oil, Israel and the Family Defense Stock Portfolio, America and the national debt be damned, lost two wars, tripled the national debt, but President Carter is an incompetent traitor.

What color is the sky on that planet Dr?  ‘Cause I know you aren’t seeing this world.

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By cyrena, October 11, 2007 at 10:06 pm Link to this comment

#106214 by David on 10/11 at 6:28 am


....‘Don’t all former presidents have security clearance to classified information?...’

Well David, I guess it depends on who you ask. According to Jeff, (whoever HE is) the answer would be no. He claims Jimmy Carter has been without his security clearance for 20 years.

However, if you’d rather believe your OWN mind…I think you’d be a lot safer.

Yes…President Carter still has his access.

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By thomas billis, October 11, 2007 at 4:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You can go back to his Presidency and take from it what you want.Be it positive or negative.But to disregard the credentials he has built up since he left office and to disregard what he is saying is absurd.To say that the dictator in Iran the Shah was going to remain in power forever is ridiculous.If we had not overthrown the elected government of Iran in the 50s our relationship with them would not be what it is today.Had we all put on a sweater 30 years ago we might not be involved in the petrowars of today.It is the duty of prominent Americans to speak out on the issues of the day.Not to do so would be treasonous.Colin Powell did not speak out are we the better for it.All that has to happen for evil to succeed is good people to sit around and do nothing.

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By cyrena, October 11, 2007 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment

#106234 by Jeff

•  Instead of some study, why don’t you ask people who have actually experienced torture?  Have you ever done this?  I have. Torture works.

We’ve got more than ‘studies’ jeff, having consulted a number of people who have experienced it, as well as those who have perpetrated it. (Check the recent documentary, ‘Road to Abu Ghraib” where the latter, - meaning the perpetrators, give us their ‘experiences’ in practicing torture.) But those aren’t going to help you, as you’ve already said you can pay somebody to come up with a study that will prove your point.

So, tell us, since you know, how TORTURE –works- What is the torture supposed to accomplish that allows you to suggest that it ‘works’? Does it ‘work’ in obtaining information from victims who don’t KNOW anything? If I ask you who my mother is, and where she was born, and torture you to come up with the answer, will you? If I sic my dogs on you, will that help you formulate the answer that I want to hear? How about if I do a little stress-position stuff with you, say maybe hang you from a hook in the ceiling, (like maybe a dead cow)? Would that help you? Or how about some electric shocks to your penis? Think you could come closer to giving up the info on my mother’s birthplace? If not, we could move on to the waterboarding, that nifty little trick that will make you feel like you’re drowning. Then we’ll put you in a freezing cold chamber, and come back when you’re nearly blue, and question you some more.

By now, I would suspect that you’ve worked your way halfway across the limited geography of your mind, but I bet you still won’t have figured out who my mother is, or her birthplace. Oh sure, you’ll be desperately throwing out names and places, ANYTHING to stop the torture, right? But alas, you still won’t be able to produce the information, because…YOU DON’T KNOW, and there is no way for you to guess.

THIS is why torture doesn’t work Jeff. As a matter of fact, it will be contrary to your purposes, if you get bad information. That is unless you don’t really CARE about obtaining correct information, and just want to torture for the sake of torture. That sounds more like what you’re about. So, are you ghost writing for dick cheney – the torturer-in-chief? He doesn’t need your help you know. He’s already got David Addington, the ‘late’ Alberto Gonzalez (he may be gone, but his torture memos live on) and all of the CIA torture specialists.

Meantime, have you figured out who my mother is, and where she was born? No? Well, you know what THAT means. We have a special long term cage for you at Gitmo, where you’ll be allowed to stew in your own feces, right there in the ‘tropics’. Long-term means you’ll be on the ‘wing’ that never gets food or water, but at least you’ll be spared the loud music and glaring lights that burn out the eyes/ears/minds of the other that are still in the on-going torture process.

What’s that about a LAWYER Jeff? You can’t have a lawyer! What good would that do you anyway, when we haven’t even CHARGED you with anything? Besides Jeff, NOBODY EVEN KNOWS YOU’RE HERE!! We could do this to you for months/years, until your organs finally fail, and you die. And, you STILL won’t have managed to tell me who my mother is, or where she was born.

So, help us figure out how torture works, because we still need that information - whatever it is.

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By Jeff, October 11, 2007 at 3:33 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Leefeller,

I had a flight instructor who was a guest of the Vietnamese government for several years.  I also happen to have a security clearance.

I did not compare torture to the Hilton.  I implied that anything less than Hilton-like treatment is considered torture by most liberals.

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By weather, October 11, 2007 at 3:30 pm Link to this comment

This Man Jimmy Carter should quickly be appointed a Cabinet post in the next administration irrespective of party.

A more stand-up and laudable example of statesmanship you’ll not find.
This isn’t Kansas anymore and we need repairmen.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, October 11, 2007 at 1:19 pm Link to this comment

Jeff,

First of all let me say I am not a great fan of Carter, nor do I dislike him.

You said:

“Instead of some study, why don’t you ask people who have actually experienced torture?  Have you ever done this?  I have. Torture works.” 

Interesting, were you practicing torture or being tortured, just need to clear that up?

You criticized Jimmy Carter for his message and his sources revealing that torture is real, you stated that the source should be in jail. According to your comment, shouldn’t you be in jail? 

I already said we all saw the pictures of torture in the news, even Fox not the News showed them,  of course, they must not be sources you agree with.  At one of the Republican debates, they spent the whole circle dance on defining what was acceptable torture. 
You say you do not condone torture, but then you, compare it to the Hilton? 

Not sure what your point was in relationship to Carter?

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By waxman, October 11, 2007 at 12:36 pm Link to this comment

DR. COLES 106266 YOUR NAME SHOULD BE DYING EMBERS ...IF CARTER IS INCOMPETENT, THEN HOW THE HELL DO YOUN RATE SHRUB ??????? WE SURVIVED CARTER, CAN WE SAY THE SAME ABOUT BUSH ???

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By Eric L Prentis, October 11, 2007 at 11:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hurray for President Carter for forthrightly standing up to the Bush administration against torture and for human rights. President Carter seems to be the only Democrat who has the courage of his principles and convictions. Democrats in Congress are such a wimpy lot when it comes to challenging the vicious right wing in this country.

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By JerryS, October 11, 2007 at 11:03 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Put him on the SLOW BOAT TO CHINA.  Thats where he belongs.  And, take his hammer with him.

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By Dr Coles, October 11, 2007 at 10:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Carter was the most incompetent present of the United States. Who cares what he has to say . . . he IS incompetent. As we struggle to know our domestic enemies. No, matter your political party affiliation, and setting aside your thoughts on issues.  We all need to remember what it is to be an American Citizen.  We need to make sure our elected representatives obey their Oath of Office and keep their Oath of Allegiance. See http://tinyurl.com/2znnvl Know whom you are voting for.

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By Sharon Ash, October 11, 2007 at 10:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

President Carter is leading by example and demonstrating it is time for people to firmly stand up for what is right.  The fact the majority of people on the left use rational thinking with an open minded approach to addressing problems, has permitted some of the adverse situtations we now face in our country, to manifest.  That is because the majority on the right, especially those who are now in our government, refuse to open their minds and even consider other solutions, but rather choose to engage in thought control bullying and the use of labels and intimidation, to get their way.  The rational mind is always looking for reasonable solutions and therefore is operating from a belief that others are doing the same.  It is time to realize that not only must those on the left continue to think and operate from a rational mode, but also must be much more persistant in seeing that rational thinking and the common good prevails over the mind control bullying and greed. Bottom line, you can be too nice when dealing with some people, and Mr. Carter has come to realize what many more must also come to realize.  His core values of being a good and decent human are unchanged, but what he is saying by example, it is past time to expect some in our government to do the right thing, but rather it is time to firmly demand it.

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By ender, October 11, 2007 at 9:54 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Pres. Carter was so ineffectual while in office specifically because he was to ethical a human being to operate in the slime pit of Washington, and was the only President of the 20th Century to resist towing the line of Big Oil.  The civil and military beaurocracy were determined to destroy him from his first day in office.  The military sabatoged the rescue attempt, but if you bothered to find out the truth, Reagan only accomplished the release so quickly through a scam set up by Carter, where Reagan signed an agreement with Iran before he was sworn in, which was then declared illegal after the hostages were released.

When the morons in the CIA replaced the last Democratically elected secular gov’t in the middle east with their doomed puppet, Shah Pavlavi, they began the whole spiral that will probably end with fundamentalist in power over the whole region, and ultimately, a world war between Islam and the West.

The idiot in the White House is hoping to get that started before he leaves office.

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By Jeff, October 11, 2007 at 9:01 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ignorance:  Knowing that Carter was a member of the Council on Foreign Relations, and a founding member (at the invitation of David Rockefeller) of the Trilateral Commission; this, by the way, only 3 years prior to his election which was heavily backed by Rockefeller.  Or maybe ignorance is not buying into your belief that the Bilderbergers were responsible for the Iran hostage situation; because we all know that Carter was not a Bilderberger - he even refused their invitation (can you say plausible deniability?).  He didn’t need to be a card carrying member since his good buddy David Rockefeller was a member, and one of his senior advisors, Hedley Donovan, was a regular guest of the Bilderbergers.

How is that for a touch of reality?

In regards to torture purplewolf said, “It is a known fact that people who are tortured reveal almost nothing of any value to their captors”.  Stating something is a “known fact” and then citing two studies is a ridiculous.  Give me some funding for a study and I’ll find an “expert” who will provide any conclusion you want.  Instead of some study, why don’t you ask people who have actually experienced torture?  Have you ever done this?  I have. Torture works.  There is a reason that the U.S. Government spends millions on training its military members on coping with torture.  That said, I don’t condone torture; although I assume that we have a different definition of torture.  I, for example, do not believe that torture includes depriving a person of the inalienable liberal rights of silk sheets, gourmet meals, and cable TV.  When, in your retort, you make a long list of abuses, please also provide your sources.

Finally, if you are going to call me ignorant, uneducated, or out of touch, at least do so without spelling errors.

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Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, October 11, 2007 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

Jeff,

Uh, seems we all saw some pictures of torture, and of course we should place any source in jail, except for special people like Libby.

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By Jeanine Molloff, October 11, 2007 at 7:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Thank you President Carter.  We need more Americans, prominent and otherwise speaking up against this illegal war and occupation and against recalcitrant candidates fearful of offending the wackos on the extreme right.  I for one have no intention of voting for any candidate that refuses to end the war immediately.

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By David, October 11, 2007 at 7:28 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Don’t all former presidents have security clearance to classified information?

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By Joe R., October 11, 2007 at 6:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Jimmy should run again.  I would rather see him as President as any of the one’s that are running now.

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G.Anderson's avatar

By G.Anderson, October 11, 2007 at 6:17 am Link to this comment

This is what all the other Democrats should be doing, especially those running for office.

They need to show some backbone, and some leadership.

Hopefully, president Carter won’t back down this time.

Of course most will ignore the truth of what Carter is saying, instead they will play their same tired old game of devaluing Mr. Carter’s actions by calling him a traitor and a failure.

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By PACRAT, October 11, 2007 at 5:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

IT DEPENDS ON WHAT “IS” IS!

Former president Carter is right on - but he is relying on old fashioned definitions that this administration has rejected! Geneva convention? International law?  What do these mean anymore? Truth is defined by this administration, not by anything else. Forget your dictionaries!

Dictionaries must redefine torture.This administation plays word games with words. After deliberate misuse (torture) of words a few times, the new “meanings” suddenly become standardized in the minds of friends and foes alike!

According to Bush “we do not torture.” That’s right. We contract with private torturing companies to torture!  For large fees of course.

In spite of professional interrogators who agree that one never learns anything new from torture - it just doesn’t work - intellecutally challenged cronies of Bush and many journalists still think it is the only way to save us from another 9/11 or similar catastrophes that may or may not be imagined by white house press agents, include Fox Noise.

How about competent planning? How about competent intelligence? How about an administration that knows how to do both?

Well, that clearly doesn’t include this administration.

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By Verne Arnold, October 11, 2007 at 5:14 am Link to this comment

#106149 by Jeff on 10/10 at 7:12 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

Ignorance is no excuse…you are ignorant.  You are unread and un-educated (in the truth).  Fortunately this is not necessarily a terminal condition; do as Cyrena suggests and you may have some hope.  As for the Iran hostage thing…you have (once again) no idea of which you write.  Research…this is the key to knowledge…good luck and happy trails.

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By cyrena, October 11, 2007 at 3:14 am Link to this comment

#106149 by Jeff

Jeff,

You’re just REAL out of touch with reality. At least I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt on that. You might read the comments by Purplewolf, and I can add a little something to it.

For starters, the ‘hostage crises” back in Jimmy Carter’s days was a political set-up, by the yeah…some F-in group that’s in there now. It’s too long for me to waste the time explaining it to you, since you may not even return. But, the information is available, and known to all that pay attention, or have even a clue.

As for the TORTURE, oh YEAH, President Carter can easily know, since I do!! I’ve been studying it for the past 4 years, and there is MUCH DOCUMENTED EVIDENCE, on exactly what is going on with them.

So, don’t plan us stupid, just because some folks prefer to turn a blind eye. And, the Cheney-Bush Thugs shouldn’t either. (continue to play us stupid)

We finally got Pinochet, Kissinger is still on the run, and there are others who have finally met their match.

Even a few hours worth of reading will make it very clear, that Cheney’s Mob can and will be prosecuted for high crimes (multiple) in an Int’l Court.

You might take a lesson. Just to know what’s coming.

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By Verne Arnold, October 11, 2007 at 2:47 am Link to this comment

Carter has shown himself to be a man of courage and forthright honesty; sadly missing in this country, for many years.  When most retired statesmen go on to enrich themselves with paybacks and blatant self interest and waffle when giving opinions; Carter speaks to the point and to the facts.  He is a proven humanitarian and I think history will be much kinder and more accurate than many of the posters here for this article.
He has earned and deserves the respect he has received since his presidency.

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By mihcael72, October 11, 2007 at 2:42 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

the most sensible ex-president the US has seen in 50 years. a decent man.
i’m glad he’s speaking out on this and speaking out more often.

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By purplewolf, October 10, 2007 at 11:27 pm Link to this comment

Jeff:

Bush admitted the fact that we torture people up to the point just before organ failure that would bring on death. He did take rape off the allowable forms of torture not that long ago. What about the Raytheon microwave protested device to use on crowds that protest Bush? White phosphorous? It is a known fact that people who are tortured reveal almost nothing of any value to their captors. TD recently ran two reports about: Psychologists in Denial About Torture,8-21-2007 and Hypocritical Psychologists and Torture, 6-5-2007 both by Amy Goodman.

Bush never knew how to be truthful and he is always twisting things to his way.Of course he and Alberto who allowed this to go on will stand before God -who they claim told him to cause this war and all the corruption that has gone along with it-and deny it that they torture.But we all know the truth.

Jimmy Carter is a man of integrity,unlike the pathetic politicos we now are stuck with. Outing the presidential candidates who want to continue the insanity of keeping the Iraq war going on until the end of their 1st terms and also going after Iran is a suicidal goal to America as a country.Where are their brains,let alone any empathy for those who suffer from this insane “war on terror”. When Bush first started that crap about fighting terror all over the world in 2001 I knew for a fact that he was insane.You can never stop all the terrorist activity, it is impossible.It is already known that if you stop 1 group several others pop up.Also since we have invaded Iraq the terrorist activity has risen and not declined. War is never the first choice and should be avoided if possible.But Bush being the bully that he is refuses to listen to others who are more level headed that this bunch that have lead America down the road to destruction.

Jimmy Carter builds houses and George Bush destroys them. Now which person is the better of the two?

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By Jeff, October 10, 2007 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

dasm said:

“Show me anywhere where they actually improved my life.”

You are looking for government to improve your life?  Don’t hold your breath waiting for that one.  That’s not the purpose of government.  The sole purpose of government is to protect inalienable rights; it’s your job to improve your life.

At least that was the opinion of a bunch of guys with some crazy revolutionary idea back in the 1770’s and 1780’s.

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By Jeff, October 10, 2007 at 8:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

We’re taking foreign policy advice from a man who, in 443 days, could not negotiate the release of 66 U.S. hostages?  Reagan had it taken care of before lunch on his first day in office.

Additionally, Mr. Carter claims that he does not “think” that the U.S. is torturing hostages, but that he “knows”.  I’m wondering what his source is; the only way to absolutely know would be to get the information from someone with a Top Secret security clearance.  Since Carter lost his clearance over 20 years ago, his “source” should be in jail.

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By JimM72, October 10, 2007 at 7:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If the U.S. had continued progress with his susttainable energy plans, we would not be in the pickle we are in with foreign oil today. Big Oil (i.e. Reagan and the Republicans) then took over and scuttled it.
Another good job well screwed up by a republican president and his lackey congress.

Jim M.

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By blarnaby jones, October 10, 2007 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I know Carter is umpty-umpteen years old, but he really needs to be hoss-whipped in the public square.  He was an embarrassment as our president many moons ago, and it appears that he’s just trying to out-embarrass his former self.

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RAE's avatar

By RAE, October 10, 2007 at 7:07 pm Link to this comment

Jimmy may not be perfect, but he’s a hell of a lot more “perfecter” than George W. Bush has ever been! At the very least, Carter uses his religious beliefs to guide his thinking and actions towards his fellow man, not, as GWB does, as a convenient cover to mask his ignorance and arrogance and fundamentally cruel and discompassionate personality.

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By Sandy Danielson, October 10, 2007 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

President Jimmy Carter is probably one of the very few Americans who is willing to tell the TRUTH about anything!! He is driven by his heart and soul and is the REAL thing when it comes to being an American…I trust him and his judgement. He knows a lot and is willing to tell it how it really is!!

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By QuyTran, October 10, 2007 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

President Carter is still better than both Bushies.

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By dasm, October 10, 2007 at 4:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Oh, please—the Clintons??  The Clintons are totally honest in comparison with any Repub.  Try the Repubs.  They can’t get honest about anything.  ANYTHING!! Delve into their past, even recent, & you’ll see—Repubs are dishonest, sexually confused, anti-Constitution apes.  Show me anywhere where they actually improved my life.  Anywhere.  Bunch of boobs.

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By Don, October 10, 2007 at 4:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Jimmy Carter is a:  “Wasn’t” and “Won’t be” “Wanna-be”..... Like all dummies, his mouth will go up and down, he will flip-flop from side to side…..and will mimic any liberal ‘cause’ to gain attention….Build a Stage and he will come.

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By M. Delano, October 10, 2007 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

the Clintons are not the ones lying about human rights violations and torture,  the Bushes are.

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By kws, October 10, 2007 at 4:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“Jimmy Carter is the good American”
Yeah…right.  Carter is the spineless jerk who let the radical Islamists take over Iran and become a state sponsor of terrorism (they actually referred to him as a headless chicken).  He also approved laws that tied the hands of US intelligence agencies.  He allowed this mess to get rolling 30 years ago!  So he got Israel and Egypt to sign a peace treaty.  But only for billions US bribes..er.. aid in return.  He seems to be more comfortable around dictators, so maybe he should move to Cuba, N Korea, or Venezuela.  Maybe they’ll let him swing a hammer building houses.  That’s the only thing he’s been good at.

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By david woods, October 10, 2007 at 4:00 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Now if only he can STAY En Fuego and push Al Gore into the equation we might actually get some where. I used to shake my head at the way Republicans wanted to drag us back into the 1950’s. We definitely can’t go forward now until we do some serious repairs to what America stands for. And what it stands against.

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By weather, October 10, 2007 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment

Jimmy Carter is the good American, an honorable example of someone who walks the talk.

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By Fools on the Hill, October 10, 2007 at 3:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Don’t expect this honesty coming from the Clintons.

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