#105670 by cyrena on 10/09 at 1:39 am: “...my only contribution comes from past consideration of these ‘phenomena” which requires separating and properly ‘defining’ this religious/heavenly experience..... I believe the stuff like “speaking in tongues” (frequently a Pentecostal sort of practice, but certainly not limited to them) may indeed have been caused by certain forms of epilepsy...”

Past experience (anecdotal evidence) is as worthwhile as any input, cyrena. It is only ever possible for humans to learn through experiencing - and that’s where you get your evidence from, too.

I’ve seen one kind of speaking in tongues, though, and it is pitiful to look at. Otherwise intelligent people who have somehow managed to disengage their brain sufficiently to produce mere gibberish.

Then again, the brain is in three parts (search R-Complex) and has to be co-ordinated to function coehsively. They managed to disrupt their own processes as though they were suffering some kind of dementia (Alzheimers).

That is substituting faith with foolishness. I would hate to see what they look like as they pass 40 and what they have left is fast receding beyond their grasp, uhh. That could also lead to a negative kind of trance state where their minds are made blank but open to ‘possession’!

My late husbnd had uncontrolable epileptic seizures and never once had this feeling of euphoria that this article states.If anything it only furthered him from any religious experience or feelings.

If there is any truth to this feeliing,will the religious nut jobs force everyone to have this new and improved form of a robotomy-lobotomy so we all will be able to be in a constant state of feeling good and therefore easier to control? Will they force it on people who worship a different religion from theirs or those who do not recognize any form of religion? Sounds like the basis for a good horror story.Why else would these doctors want to find the easy button in the brain.

Admitting up front that I did not follow thru to the ‘read more’ part of this article, my only contribution comes from past consideration of these ‘phenomena” which requires separating and properly ‘defining’ this religious/heavenly experience. (a point well made by Thomas billis in #105591)

I believe the stuff like “speaking in tongues” (frequently a Pentecostal sort of practice, but certainly not limited to them) may indeed have been caused by certain forms of epilepsy, and or other brain wiring. (all organic components to the psychological sort of behavior)

I compare this heavenly experience to the only other sort of similar ‘experiences’ of “out of body” or ‘near death’ experiences. I actually had an ‘out of body’ experience once, but it was ‘different’ than my ‘near death’ experience. The ‘out of body’ experience was (in my opinion) actually caused by being, ‘near death’. (I’d gone into shock, and lost a considerable amount of blood – I was ‘near death’, so I attributed it to that – purely physiological) My ‘near death’ experience (that…’life flashing before you sensation”) was when I was stupid enough to ride my tiny scooter on a major highway, and came within nanoseconds of being squashed to mush by a bus that obviously didn’t see me. THAT was pure psychological trauma.

BOTH can conjure up thoughts of religious ‘believing’ even among those who’ve never experienced such.

Most of the religious ‘experiences’ and behavior that I see in the masses, (like the behavior police mentality) don’t have a damn thing to do with their ‘electrical’ wiring, but are pure psychology. That’s what makes them dip into their pockets to support the snake oil conners of the old and the new. The Pat Roberts’ and the Lou Dobbs, and all of their ilk. It’s not the wiring, but rather the social psychology, since no one who actually takes the Bible and other organized religious beliefs –seriously- can perpetrate the hatred that they do, toward other members of the human race.

From the beginning of time, organized religion has been used to control the masses. For those who are ‘controlled’ it acts as a drug, like alchohol or anything else, and the ‘superstitious’ will defend their beliefs to the max. They drink the kool-aid.

The kool-aide servers are the Pat Robertsons, the Oral Roberts’, the Lou Dobbs’ and on and on. Such as it is. There are far more of them, then there are those who experience this phenomena as a result of brain wiring.

GW is no more a believer or religious person than the devil himself. (if one believes in the devil).

As a TBI survivor (more than 30 years), and two NDE’s all I can say is ...

Oh brother! bother ...

What next!

Neuroscience and God: “...Ultimately, however, neuroscientists study this question because they want to better understand the neural basis of a phenomenon that plays a central role in the lives of so many. “These experiences have existed since the dawn of humanity. They have been reported across all cultures...”

The Divine is not something high above us. It is in heaven, it is in earth, it is inside of us...... The Art of Peace is the religion that is not a religion..... http://www-cse.ucsd.edu/users/paloma/Aikido/artpeace.html

#105629 by Leefeller on 10/08 at 7:32 pm: “...Why don’t we speculate that something such as an electrical storm in the remainder of Bushes dead brain, prods the few working cells of his mind into sometimes underling any immoral issue or three....”

D’ya mean when they’ve given him a shot of the stuff - or when he’s not on the stuff, Leefeller? Both are equally obvious, duh......

Why don’t we speculate that something such as an electrical storm in the remainder of Bushes dead brain, prods the few working cells of his mind into sometimes underling any immoral issue or three. However we must not over look the fact that larger areas of white brain matter, have been proven to promote chronic lying, this creates a dilemma in the minds of those who have an inability to think or reason.  Talking to ones self and saying it was god, is no excuse.

First you have to know what “a heavenly state of mind” is like. That is rather more than mere “obsession with religious or moral issues” so it should exclude most priests and psychologists - and certainly psychiatrists.

If “Epileptics who have this form of the disorder often report intense religious experiences...”, then are they simply epileptics or have they had a genuine transcendental experience but their ‘neural networks’ haven’t been able to cope with being energized in that way or to that extent and have just broken down into siezures?

“...the ability to induce them artificially could transform people’s lives by making them happier...” rather sounds more like Huxley’s “A Brave New World” where everyone is content and happy - but totally under control of the state!?!?

Paradise-Engineering: “Universal happiness keeps the wheels steadily turning; truth and beauty can’t.”

“I can sympathise with people’s pains, but not with their pleasures. There is something curiously boring about somebody else’s happiness.” Aldous Huxley http://www.huxley.net/