#104139 by WriterOnTheStorm

...given that Iran’s official position, since the reign of the Ayatollahs began, has been that Israel is illegitimate. They never did recognized Israel’s right to exist. How come we just now noticed that, after 30 years?

Basically correct, but there has been a qualitative difference in Iran’s genocidal aggression towards Israel in recent years, and that is the financial, logistical, material, and political support of Hezbollah, Hamas, and Islamic Jihad - the murderers of thousands of Israeli civilians.

Reading Hersch’s article after seeing Nicholas Burns on Charlie Rose last night makes for a bleak picture.

Burns made it clear that current US middle east policy is perfectly logical—logical that is, once you accept a few precepts:

1 Us intervention in the middle east is the best chance for stability in the region.

Wrong. This is simple imperial hubris, to borrow a phrase. If anything, US intervention is the primary cause of unrest. It is evident that most of the people in the region see the US as having stood in where Britain left off. We are the new colonizers, the evil empire bent on exploitation and monopolization of resources. Wether or not this is true is for another debate. What matters most is that it is believed to be true, and we are certainly not doing much to change minds.

2 Israel is our only ally in the region, and it is self evident to all (except anti-semites, naturally) that we must do everything within our power to insure it’s hegemony in the region.

Wrong. Israel has it’s own agenda, and to the extent that their agenda is not in America’s long-term interests, it is not a US ally. This goes beyond the obvious Zionist project/American evangelical rapture baiting cabal. At the moment, we can not even have a discussion about this in America. It is not even permitted to suggest that Israel just might be manufacturing our future enemies (at a pace that equals the birthrate in Palestine, curiously). We must believe, or subject ourselves to name calling and vicious threats, that the enemies of Israel are NOT guerilla fighters, NOT politically motivated, NOT reasonable human beings driven to desperate measures in a struggle for basic human rights. No, it is our solemn duty as Americans to believe that Israel’s enemies are all religious madmen, swarthy, scimitar-waving, bomb-strapping, 79 virgin-f-cking, evil zealots,  bent on the destruction of the entire infidel west.

3. Iran is our biggest obstacle to stability in the region.

Wrong. Look at the situation from their point of view: Let’s skip past Sykes/Picot and the Balfour agreements, since they were affronts to EVERYONE in the region, and move ahead to 1953. In that year, the US engineered a coup in Iran. It then proceed to prop up a gov’t that oppressed Iran’s people for 25 years. After Iran finally ousts the Shaw, the US counters by providing its neighbor Iraq the weapons it needs to invade Iran in yet another attempt to take control of the country. Millions died in that war, in large part thanks to those weapons (remember that pic of Rummy and Hussein shaking hands? Now we know what they were smiling about). Next, the US invades its erstwhile pal Iraq, destroys Iraq’s infrastructure, and turns it into a bloody, toxic, hopeless wasteland. Finally that same country has labeled you a member of the axis of evil, making it clear that, this time, it’s you in the crosshairs.

There’s a long history here. The US has a track record, and if your a Persian, it aint good. Iran is Bush’s custom fit Iraq war scapegoat. Blaming them gives him more time in Iraq, as well as a pretext for air strikes. Under these circumstances, it seems to me that Iran’s leaders would be irresponsible to their own people, reckless even, were they NOT to seek a nuclear weapon in order to defend its citizenry from apparent imminent attack.

As far as Iran’s attitude toward Israel, it strikes me as no coincidence that we are hearing so much about Amadinejad’s ‘off -the-face-of-the-map’ remark, given that Iran’s official position, since the reign of the Ayatollahs began, has been that Israel is illegitimate. They never did recognized Israel’s right to exist. How come we just now noticed that, after 30 years?

So, who is the true threat to middle east stability? Who is our truly our friend in the region? What are the real obstacles?

“They hate us for our freedom” is a pernicious designer lie, aimed at preventing critical thought. Your critical thought.

ocjim (#104004) says, “....war with Iran…..has the potential to ignite a regional inferno.”  It isn’t going to be confined only to the-cradle-of-civilization and its oily environs.  Covering up evidence of their crimes against Nature requires the global gangbangers to rub-out the entire Living Arrangement here, because their bloody fingerprints are all over everything.  So their “working hypothesis” calls for leaving no witnesses whatsoever alive….in other words, a quite literally “scorched Earth” policy.

There is a long line of raped and ruined Sisters of our Mother Earth all across our Nourishing Way Star Nation. Right now we here are all at the “business” end of it.  The thing is, though, this cosmic cluster-fuck STOPS here….one way or another.

So everybody take some deep breaths, take a hint from today’s “MUTTS” in the funny papers (keeping in-mind that fear is the heaviest “baggage” there is), and get ready to go, “....all together now,” through The-Eye-of-the-Needle.  Associate freely.  Dream wildly.  All your “big questions” are about to be answered.

HokaHey!

#103938 by Amir

If you are a police officer, keep an eye open for Lieberman’s car and fine his every mistake, if you are a fire inspector, pay extra attention to any breach of fire department regulation when you are visiting Norman Podhoretz’s Upper East Side apartment.

WTF??? Are you stalking Jews now?
How very TruthDig of you.

Hersh has been doing us all a favor by his inciteful research and reporting. Few talk about the feckless Bush administration’s plans.

And too few consider the consequences of an attack on a nation called evil by the sanctimonious cowboy Bush. If the attacks and retaliations materialize, there are many possible consequences.

Based on past experience can we expect the Bush administration to do much planning beyond air strikes? What are the likely consequences of the air strikes? Iran’s threats are not specific but it’s easy to imagine the scope of the response from leaders that Bush forces have characterized as rogues.

Iran has Russian derivative intermediate-range missiles: the Shabab-3 with a range of about 1,200 miles and the Shabab-4, with a range of approximately 1,800 miles. Thus the latter can easily hit all of Israel, and much of Afghanistan and Iraq, including our troops in Baghdad’s Green Zone. We could expect massive American casualties in Iraq, where Iranian agents and their Iraqi allies will be able to call in precise coordinates.

The Strait of Hormuz in the Persian Gulf is strategic to the transport of Middle East oil. Its most narrow point is 21 miles. Twenty percent of the world’s oil supply is funneled through. It will be a strategic target for Iran.

Chinese-supplied C-801 and C-802 anti-shipping missiles, mines and coastal artillery will target U.S. shipping navigating the strait, and most likely our ally, Saudi Arabia’s oil production and oil export centers.

Current $3 a gallon oil prices could easily become $5 per gallon prices. Shaky markets will see the dollar tumble against other currencies, especially the euro.

Supported by Iran, Hezbollah forces in southern Lebanon will probably join in the fray and fire rockets into Israel, as was done during the Lebanon confrontation. Israel, already struck by missiles from Tehran, will begin retaliatory raids on Lebanon and Iran.

Instigated by Iranian agents, unrest in Pakistan could result in the overthrow of the weakened U.S. ally President Pervez Musharraf, leaving Islamic radicals to rule.

Thus the potential for Pakistan to become the first radical Islamic state to possess a nuclear weapon could loom. The neat little war with Iran, which Democrats fear to oppose, has the potential to ignite a regional inferno.

With all due respect to Seymour Hersh, a fine reporter, here is the real discussion going on in the White House.

1) If we invade Iran, can we get away with it?

2) Can we manufacture an excuse that will mislead people long enough to get us into Iran? Something like the WMD in Iraq. How about IED’s made in Iran? Can’t prove it—but Iraq showed proof is not necessary. Hell, you can just make stuff up and the American people will buy it.

3) Do we really want to control a country that is rich in oil and is strategically situated next to the Persian Gulf and the Straits of Hormuz? Gee, ya think?

4) Will AIPAC support us if we knock off one of their rivals? Gee, ya think?

In other words, the only thing keeping the Administration from launching a war against Iran is question 1: can they get away with it? Are the American people stupid enough to fall for a bunch of lies a second time?

Yup.

The truly amazing thing about this whole anti-Iran campaign is that there is ZERO evidence they are building nuclear weapons (or even have a program), AND their political leaders all say that having nuclear weapons is counter to Islam.

Now, what can the Iranians possibly do to prove a negative? The laws of logic say it can’t be done.

To those willing to take a cursory look at history, it’s obvious why the Bush Crime Family wants to target Iran:

1) The US State Department never forgave the Iranians for tossing out their chosen dictator, Mohammed Reza Pahlavi.

2) Iran controls a whole lot of oil.

3) Iran is strategically situated along a proposed oil pipeline from Central Asia.

Is Iran secretly supplying weapons to the Shi’ite faction in Iraq? I don’t know—but who could blame them if they did? Do you really expect them to just lie down to the illegal occupation of their neighboring country by the USA, which first installed the dictator Pahlavi?

If the tables were turned, and Iran occupied Canada or Mexico, do you think our government would do nothing?

This nation belongs to the Jews !