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 Musharraf Fires BackPosted on Aug 7, 2007
Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf has criticized the tough talk coming out of Washington and the presidential campaign as counterproductive. President Bush and Barack Obama, among others, have recently raised the possibility of attacking targets in Pakistan without necessarily consulting that nation’s government.
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The Age of Paine
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Jump to Comments
By ardee, August 10, 2007 at 2:40 pm #
#93511 by lilmamzer on 8/09 at 1:37 pm
I uderstand the futility of debating with one as blind as you, so I wont.
My comment stands, and those not you understand the point.
Report thisBy lilmamzer, August 9, 2007 at 5:37 pm #
#93462 by ardee
While your post does contain the crux of the problem what you fail to understand seemingly is that such falsehoods are endemic to both sides of this issue.
Your response is incoherent; you acknowlege that Arab bigotry (and the resultant rejection of Jewish self-determination) is the crux of the conflict, and then contradict yourself by laying equal (and mysterious) blame upon Jews.
If the Arabs ceased to promulgate hatred, there would be no need for the Jews to defend themselves, and hence, no conflict.
Report thisBy ardee, August 9, 2007 at 1:59 pm #
While your post does contain the crux of the problem what you fail to understand seemingly is that such falsehoods are endemic to both sides of this issue.
A large part of this problem between Palestinian and Jew, in fact a large part of most of the worlds problems continue because each side sees only the truths they care to accept. Pity really.
Report thisBy lilmamzer, August 9, 2007 at 11:39 am #
#93190 by ardee
#93155 by 1drees on 8/08 at 11:39 am
If you base your opinions upon the Protocols of the Elders of Zion then you base them upon a forged book. This was a creation of Csarist Russia , produced as proof of something or other in order to justify the pogroms against the jews in Russia.
The libelous “Protocols” is a perennial bestseller in Arab countries, but nowhere more so than in the Palestinian Authority. “1dress” was probably spoon-fed antisemitic propaganda like that since childhood. This is the crux of the Arab/Muslim genocidal war against the Jews.
Check this out:
‘Protocols of Elders of Zion’ in Palestinian Ideology
Report thisBy AR, August 8, 2007 at 10:55 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Why are all the sheep afraid of Obama’s proposal? Because it may destabilize Musharraf’s authoritarian regime and give way to an Islamist Pakistan with The Bomb. So instead of slaughtering terrorists in Pakistan, American troops are waging a Pyrrhic war in Iraq. It seems that our War on Terror may have been lost before it ever started, the day in 1999 that Pakistan got the bomb, courtesy of Mohammed Qadeer Khan.
Report thisBy ardee, August 8, 2007 at 6:45 pm #
#93155 by 1drees on 8/08 at 11:39 am
If you base your opinions upon the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion” then you base them upon a forged book. This was a creation of Csarist Russia , produced as proof of something or other in order to justify the pogroms against the jews in Russia.
Or dont you really care?
Report thisBy penny pooh, August 8, 2007 at 6:01 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
“Hes played both sides against the middle on behalf of Saudi coin for longer than I can appreciate. Either hes going to give up bin Laden, or well be leaving Iraq to bring Freedom and Liberty to a city near him.” -rage
Point well taken.
But, you sound like Stephen King with the “Give up bin Laden, and we’ll go away.”
LOL!
Report thisBy 1drees, August 8, 2007 at 3:39 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The Americans do ( silently) pride themselves as the great Warrior Nation, I mean look at the last 40 years & you will see 10 nations or people attacked. it is a Warrior Agenda of the Zionist Jews that you
Report this“goyims” are under, see “Protocols of ZION”. Maybe you Goyims should start doing what the jews do to get things done in USA.
Maybe you people should circulate the News & the phone numbers to call in the days you goyims are running the campaign for the delivery of your message to the congress. and then assign people to remind others to make calls, all this requires organisation BUT your GOVT might not let you all Organise at all, coz the confiscation of iraq war opposer’s Property has been signed already.
THE US congress number and the instruction to call congress for flow of funds to Israel is always posted in some jewish papers and then there are people who call others on the phone to get them to make the call
and so that they do not forget. SEE how they insist on being heard while you Goyims just been living FREE fine & dandy in lalaland & your tax dollars been paying for tremendous losses to the other people eg
Palestinians, Pamanans, Nicraguans, etc etc & OF course the jews & the Israelis love you for that but they might not love you too much for that only.
Other Than that, unless Americans Steer away from the WW3, we all will be soon there. And in Wars there are always surprises and upsets coz barely ever any plan goes as per plan, iraq & vietnam are best examples, the army presumed the the resistance to roll over & play dead. Most of the world couldnt care less about Americans BUT its the Death & Destruction that you export that everyone abhors and wants to avoid.
America the Great land of ................ whatever, you bet, as long as you can stay away from killing and funding other people’s death. which in the the present situation is impossible as even the new
hopeful candidates are trying to feed the WAR HUNGRY by promising wars here And there. really astounding to hear when i thought that the nation was sick of wars & plundering.
People couldnt care less BUT the USA future is , of course, very WARRY in the next few years too UNLESS
some people actually do try and cause a change it will be observed once again the “the good ol USofA” has Massacred another few millions. US Forces have used all possible ILLEGAL WEAPONS in iraq BUT still are very limited in iraq, so that does mean that your technical superiority in death machines has been not much of a help, no matter how many you have killed so far, but you still managed to kill a little extra whose relatives take your soldiers out 1 by 1, maybe your bombings killed complete blocks but these insurgents are so far quiet patient as were
the vietnamese or indian Indians or other people who ever tried to resist occupation and/or imperialism. The American Indians tried their best but they evidently failed & the native could only complain of ” White man speaks with forked tongue” ( translation the newcomming white boys lie like hell & their word is worth ZILCH, sounds exactly like a typical American president except JFK)
By THOMAS BILLIS, August 8, 2007 at 2:44 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
First a reality check.If musharaff should be toppled amother equally corrupt General will take over.The Islamic parties in Pakistan are about 10% of the population.There is no chance they can grab power.The way it will be done is they will contact Musharaff first and let him know what we are doing.Hopefully we will get the perpetrators of 911 and Musharaff will condemn us and then accept some more money.Either you want to get Bin Laden or you do not.Even the Republicans who support Bush should be in favor of this.If you support or give refuge to terrorists blah blah blah.One more thing I guess that democracy thing is only for countries that have oil we do not like.
Report thisBy rage, August 8, 2007 at 11:59 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
This rascal is anything but a heroic victim of his dictatorial success. This bum is little more than the tool of ISI. He’d have launched a nuclear assault on India ages back, had the world not openly protested.
Furthermore, he’s in kahoots with the Saudis and he’s hiding bin Laden, who is still a priority to the rest of us, despite Dumya’s having given up on him. Although, I can certainly appreciate Dumya’s retiscence to keep looking. Finding bin Laden would answer too many real 9/11 questions. We knew in October of 2001 that bin Laden had left Afghanistan for Pakistan. Just because the BFEE is beholden to Saudi Oil Cartels, Bandar Bush, and the bin Laden family since Poppy’s running mate days with Reagan(http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/du board.php?az=view_all&address=389x1281780) should not obligate the American people to offer up its military in protection and legitimization of corporate oligarchy.
It is no secret that Generalissimo Musharraf has been an ardent supporter of al Queada and the Taliban. Both groups are trained and funded in Pakistan on the ISI dime that is not covertly supplemented by the CIA and MI5/6. He’s played both sides against the middle on behalf of Saudi coin for longer than I can appreciate. Either he’s going to give up bin Laden, or we’ll be leaving Iraq to bring Freedom and Liberty to a city near him.
Report thisBy jatihoon, August 8, 2007 at 10:42 am #
Musharraf fired back, “Blanks filled with Dollars.” Great people, ruled by Thugs.
Report thisBy ardee, August 8, 2007 at 8:46 am #
for vet240 and Jefferson
I do not support military dictators, regardless of economic accomplishments. I do support duly elected leaders, ironically like that of Iran’s Amadhinajad.
It is far easier to rally a nations economy through fiat rather than compromise. That most of the profit of that economic leap does not go to the people of that nation is frankly secondary to the fact of assuming power through a coup. That personal liberty and equal justice do not exist in that nation is the point, not that Musharaff must tread lightly on the subject of bin Laden because his nation has many fundamentalist muslims.
I believe everyone must make a choice as to which form of governance is best. I believe that each nations citizens should be allowed that choice as well. I also realise that some nations prefer a taliban like government, and they are welcome to it, but I would offer that, if given a choice, freedom always prevails.
Report thisBy jefferson, August 8, 2007 at 2:09 am #
people read some history and educate yourself thoroughly before you post nonsense like nefertiti above.
musharraf took over when pakistan was a bankrupt country with nuclear weapons. soon after his takeover 911 happened. the us threatened pakistan with “we will bomb you to the stone ages if you do not do blah blah ...”. he had no choice. as far as dictators - he is the best man pakistan had after the totally corrupt civilian governments like bhutto and sharif. he has turned the economy around - brought respectability to pakistan. stood by the us in the so called war on terror.
Report thisthe brits and many before that for over 200 years tried to bring the independent wazirstan people under their rule but failed. they are fiercly independent people and will resist the us attacks at all cost. the blowback from a unilateral attack as the bushites and the obamas and some people on this blog are suggesting is going to be far worse than in iraq.
the radical jihadis are waiting for this scenario to unfold so they can unleash a torrid inferno in the whole region.
sad that while we are waging a bloody useless war in iraq and afghanistan now (in)sane left wing people are suggesting the same for pakistan. either you have a dialog and help a beleagurred ally or you will see a nuclear nation go up in smoke and take the whole region with it. do you really want that ?
so stay cool and do not get taken in by the politicians who have already murdered 600,000 innocent iraqis and are now proposing further genocide under the pretext of capturing osama and killing the terrorists over there so they do not come and kill us here.
By Debra Istvanik-Strotman, August 8, 2007 at 1:47 am #
Obama is not much better than Bush. Since he wasn’t around to vote on the war in Iraq he tells all who will listen that he would not have voted to go to war. And we know this because the man tells us after the fact, and whatever a politician says we are to believe?
Report thisAt the first opportunity to talk of war Obama like Bush is eager and willing to go into Pakistan and the consequences’ be damned.
Obama is no better than the rest of them just a mud slinging sneak.
By vet240, August 7, 2007 at 10:17 pm #
There is many among us who have done little to learn what Mesharraf has to contend with, just as we falied to do with Hussein.
Musharraf is walking a thin line if he mis-steps he gets ovet-thrown. If you don’t like him, you really won’t like his replacement.
Barack Obama is the only one I have heard suggest taking any unilateral action within Pakistani borders.
Barack has demonstrated his lack of experience in making this statement.
Four months ago I e-mailed my feelings about his run at the Presidency (to one of the sites with his name on it). I told him he would be perfect in eight years. That would give him the time to gain knowledge about all facets of Government including International relations. I also told him we need an experienced hand who would be able to clean up the absolute mess the Republicans and the Bush (league)had left us with.
Millions of people (most of the world are repulsed by our arrogance) We are accumulating a virtual mountain of debt to contiue our folley in Iraq (much of that debt is held by foreign lenders like China and Japan.
Our infrastructure, both social (human issues like health care, border security and education) and structural issues (bridges, roads, water, energy and the environment) Are paying the price for this stupid waste of our reources in Iraq.
We are saddled with a reality not unlike Musharraf in that I’m sure he would like to do things differently or make changes, but he too has a limited number of realistic options available.
Report thisBy ardee, August 7, 2007 at 10:11 pm #
A typical American ally, a military dictator…...
We let bin Laden escape from the trap at Tora Bora and slip into an area in Pakistan both almost inaccessible and very strongly fundamentalist, ideal for such as AlQaeda.
First Bush promised to get bin Laden and bring him to justice, then a couple of years later claims he spends no time thinking about him at all. Now , with his ratings in the toilet, he suddenly decides to resurrect the search for Osama, where is Waldo anyway?
I love the juxtaposition of AlQaeda in a nation with much support and an unpopular ruler, oh and nuclear weapons too….
Report thisBy QuyTran, August 7, 2007 at 9:31 pm #
Friends or Foes ? You name them !
Report thisBy nefertiti, August 7, 2007 at 9:02 pm #
He finally Allows Benazir Bhutto his sworn enemi back to Pakistan (the US may have forced his hand ) as the only remaining popular people in pakistan are the islamists and god forbid , the whitehouse does not want them , but allow crazy people like Tancredo to run for elections .
http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/08/07/pakista n.bhutto.reut/index.html
Report thisBy nefertiti, August 7, 2007 at 8:35 pm #
He is finished . He did all he could , made a few hundreds disappear (till now ) tortured a few in brand new prisons built by the US (described by many Pakistanis who had been released ) killed hundreds at the Red mosque that was still not Enough. he risked his life a few times by his citizens because he despised them , and now he has lost any support he had before . he is a finished man . I was surprised he visited Bhutto in Dubai , he hated her before, and said she wont be allowed into Pakistan , now he is urging her to come back . I wonder whether it was a US idea , to bring her back , as she is more popular than him. she was very secular , yet , respected the people until Busharaf .
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