92089 by Goffredo on 8/03 at 9:39 pm: “...fails to address my bewilderment as to why this is news if Bush has said repeatedly that he would invade Pakistan in search of bin Laden. .......If Obama were elected I don’t foresee the United States continuing on this arrogant and aggressive path….”

What Bush says is not news, Goffredo - but what Obama says, at least this week, is. The usual ravings have been supplanted by another party’s new ambitions to do anything at all for a vote. Obama is too keen to plug into whatever corporate background support he can.

What I meant was that we might not have to wait for Obama to be elected or not. The Bush Neocons have been given an opportunity. Bush is actually the one who is most likely to use it, as you know. A call to war is his favorite ploy to distract attention from more pressing issues at home.

Quote Empire: “...while classical imperialism has largely disappeared, a new empire is emerging in a diffuse blend of technology, economics, and globalization .......now better understood as a complex web of sociopolitical forces. They argue, with a neo-Marxist bent, that “the multitude” will transcend and defeat the new empire on its own terms….”

Not exactly, Goffredo. The old US empire is just about finished. It is being replaced by a rising China and India. The rest of Asia will have a lot to say as well as the EU countries. But anyone who has lived under the old communism in China or the USSR would tell you that “the multitude” never got a chance to reform anything. Tha’s why those countries are still catching up today.

As you say, it is really not so ” elementary and simple”. For now, though, we are still faced with the US hegemony and the extensive influence played in it by pernicious pro-Israeli business and political-religious interests. They are still trying to strangle the new-born era at birth with their old “its them or us” modes of thinking. They are incapable of change - or of listening to their own people who want change.

Sounds familiar? Better go back and read it all over again, I think. Bush and Cheney are being re-incarnated in the Democrats. Now, only Hillary is still saying anything any different. How would she go with Kucinich on a joint ticket? He would make a good VP.

Douglas,

Not sure what the link you provided has to do with my post.  I believe your link is the subject of this thread, but fails to address my bewilderment as to why this is news if Bush has said repeatedly that he would invade Pakistan in search of bin Laden.

Secondly, Obama does not have the powerful corporate ties that the Bush Regime does.  If Obama were elected I don’t foresee the United States continuing on this arrogant and aggressive path.  Just my opinion.

Thirdly, do I believe that this issue is elementary and simple? No, of course not. 

You wrote:
“What is worse is that the old agenda of US imperialism is again rampant and that will create policy change in every government overseas. The USA is back to being the aggressor and can’t be trusted. All kinds of negotiations will now take on a completely different focus.”

Thanks for the update Douglas.  The news in this thread continues to be cutting edge.

Here, put this on your Amazon wish list:
http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Michael-Hardt/dp/0674006712

You then came up with this gem:
“Even if Obama never gets elected or is voted out, he has already had a significant negative effect on US politics. If he does succeed, he will most probably become the next Dick Cheney! The military-industrial complex and Condi Rice must all love and adore him!!!”

Really?  A negative effect?  So things were going swimmingly up until Obama’s comment? And he will be the next Dick Cheney?  Didn’t think that was humanly possible, to be that evil.  Cheney is actually made up of old body parts from Hitler, Mussolini, Nero, and Pope Boniface VIII.

The only declaration in your post that merits my attention is that yes, congress has just turned the other cheek again and gave Bush the executive scissors to cut away at the constitution again.  Amazing how no one in the Capitol Building has the courage to stand firm and defend the constitution.

#92032 by Goffredo on 8/03 at 5:01 pm: “...Why is this even news?  Are you freaking kidding me? ........Why does the Bush Regime getting off the hook for saying the same fucking thing?? And in this corner… We have a freaking madman fascist dictator who DOES have the power and authority to invade other nations as he sees fit….... How can you even compare the two?  Why is it that this country redneck still get away with the same ol’ BS…?”

Instead of your last year’s CNN link, Goffredo, you should read the current status as far as the Republicans are concerned - http://edition.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/08/03/obama.pakistan.ap/index.html

“...Also Friday, a senior Pakistani official condemned another presidential hopeful, Colorado Republican Tom Tancredo, for saying the best way he could think of to deter a nuclear terrorist attack on the U.S. would be to threaten to retaliate by bombing the holiest Islamic sites of Mecca and Medina…...

In Pakistan’s national assembly on Friday, Minister for Parliamentary Affairs Sher Afgan said he would bring on a debate next week on recent criticism of Pakistan from several quarters in the U.S., including Tancredo’s remarks. .......It was a matter of “grave concern that U.S. presidential candidates are using unethical and immoral tactics against Islam and Pakistan to win their election,” Afghan said…...

Tancredo told about 30 people at a town hall meeting in Osceola, Iowa, on Tuesday that he believes that a nuclear terrorist attack on the U.S. could be imminent and that the U.S. needs to hurry up and think of a way to stop it…... “If it is up to me, we are going to explain that an attack on this homeland of that nature would be followed by an attack on the holy sites in Mecca and Medina. Because that’s the only thing I can think of that might deter somebody from doing what they otherwise might do,” he said….”

#92032 by Goffredo on 8/03 at 5:01 pm: “...Obama is not our president ....It’s purely a campaign trick ....And in this corner…”

Uhh, its not so simple, Goffredo. These things have a far-reaching ripple effect. Not only domestically but internationally. The dawn of a new era with Nancy Pelosi and a Democrats-Independents majority is now seen world-wide as having been thoroughly soured.

What is worse is that the old agenda of US imperialism is again rampant and that will create policy change in every government overseas. The USA is back to being the aggressor and can’t be trusted. All kinds of negotiations will now take on a completely different focus.

Also, the view that all the problems would go away after Bush disappeared in January 2009 has changed as well. He has just been given a new licence to kill by the Democrats. That is very serious indeed for world peace and stability…....

Even if Obama never gets elected or is voted out, he has already had a significant negative effect on US politics. If he does succeed, he will most probably become the next Dick Cheney! The military-industrial complex and Condi Rice must all love and adore him!!!

Why is this even news?  Are you freaking kidding me?

Why does the Bush Regime getting off the hook for saying the same fucking thing??

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/09/20/bush.intv/index.html

So that I have this correct…

Obama is not our president (unfortunately) and has no authority or power to send anyone, anywhere.  He is catering to those voters who reside somewhere in the middle, who like peace but don’t mind a good ol’ fashioned “shock and awe” show.  Getting those people, who DO vote on board, would be critical.  It’s purely a campaign trick.

And in this corner…

We have a freaking madman fascist dictator who DOES have the power and authority to invade other nations as he sees fit (thanks to a lazy-ass congress who signs a bill that says “the president has the power to invade__________________(insert any country here) to fight terrorism” and would LOVE to make mo’ money for his cronies. 

How can you even compare the two?  Why is it that this country redneck still get away with the same ol’ BS?

#91885 by Sepharad on 8/03 at 2:18 am

I agree that we don’t have all the facts. Being a Muslim and trying to deal with radical and mainstream Muslims can’t be easy.
Just as if some group here in the states started espousing hatred for another country and then followed that up with some sort of attack, we would be morally obligated to see those people brought to court and their campaign halted.
There are some Jordanian immigrants living here that still aren’t real comfortable talking political issues with Westener’s. But the little I’ve gotten from them is that they are worried about the Muslim worlds’ reaction to Shrubs’ actions.
Heck, we’re worried too.

#91885 by Sepharad on 8/03 at 12:18 am: “...study the Islamic world, its intricate history and issues and interactions and probable responses to given scenarios, as if our lives depended on it because they in fact might. Time to learn its languages and social structures? (Many Chinese businessmen and diplomats, for example, are fluent in Arabic, Farsi and even, when called for, Urdu, Pashtu, etc…”

Yes, the Chinese aren’t quite so racially arrogant (or ignorant) as the Americans - or Westerners in general. It eventually inevitably pays big dividends both in business and diplomacy.

Sepharad: “... Israel isn’t perfect, but has a citizen army and so is much more careful than the American President, and has a.eyet to fight a fight that wasn’t needed….”

No, Israel’s history since 1945 is clear. Its not what Israelis think about but it was once all Palestine and the three religions, the two races(?) lived together more or less harmoniously. Living there as an Israeli is very different from the Arab Palestinian experience. And don’t forget that two thirds or more of Arab Palestinians have fled over the years.

Further, the incursion in to Lebanon last year was seen even by Israelis as a fools’ errand and a military disaster. The government there almost tore itself apart over that “unneeded” issue. Perhaps you can also tell me why their “citizen army” is the only nuclear-armed power in the region, Sepharad?

#91692 by sahmadi on 8/02 at 8:19 am: “...that America though meddlesome is not the conniving devil spreading pestilence ....You who live in a country safe and secure have the time to create fantasies…like your zionist conspiracy fantasy ......Go to a third world country, and try to protest for human rights, and government competency…witness first hand the extremism, before you spew your cynical remarks….”

Yes, go to Israel and try to protest for Palestinian rights. Rubbish! See for yourself - http://poetryforpalestine.spaces.live.com/

You are on the guy’s campaign support team, sahmadi. “he clearly states in precise language that Islam is not what we are fighting…” and he nails every Islamic thing he can - no differentiation between ‘Islamic’ faith or ‘Islam-ist’ terrorists.

#91571 by Aamir Ali on 8/01 at 8:47 pm

AA, I wasn’t suggesting that just any place in Pakistan should be bombed. Just the known places where the Taliban and al Queada are at.
Maybe most Pakistani’s don’t want either of these groups in their country. That being the case, Pakistan needs to work on getting them out.
I know it is difficult to understand the American political system, especially for a foreigner.
But when the Shrub was appointed President, he had fewer votes than his opponent overall. But, he had more votes in certain states than his opponent and that allowed him access to the White House.
A fact that many Republican’s now regret.
The Shrub is not at all representative of what the average American is like.
We are engaged in a struggle here to remove this person from office, legally. It isn’t easy nor quick.

While there are many things to admire about Obama, he is clearly shows his inexperience and it is becoming apparent that he is not ready to be president.
There is more to being president than the ability to raise money.  It is time for the media to give more attention to the other candidates with far more experience like Bill Richardson and Joe Biden and stop treating this race like a season of “American Idol”.

A new draft dodger tries to declare war without knowing how to carry a gun properly. Funny ! Please don’t make us laugh to dead, Mr. “chicken” Obama.

Dick Cheney just got a new “bravest” buddy who declares war under his thick bunker.

Douglas Chalmers,

You know everything don’t you Mr. Chalmers.  I tell you that is my name, and that you were very presumptuous to think otherwise…you respond with “I don’t think that is your name”.  Hilarious.  This simple exchange reveals how empty your point of view is.  You don’t believe in anything…only the fantasy world that you have created.

Your mind will never accept facts…the fact that 9/11 did happen.  That extremism does exist…especially in Islamic countries…that America though meddlesome is not the conniving devil spreading pestilence.  You who live in a country safe and secure have the time to create fantasies…like your zionist conspiracy fantasy.  Go to a third world country, and try to protest for human rights, and government competency…witness first hand the extremism, before you spew your cynical remarks. 

Obama’s speech was powerful and inspirational.  If you have watched or read it, you would have known that he clearly states in precise language that Islam is not what we are fighting.  Have you watched or read it?  If anyone has not read or watched it, go to CSPAN and watch it and judge for yourself.  Don’t be swayed by cynics and conspiracists…do your own research.

AK:

“Al-Qaeda existence has since become an umbilical cord to sustain US planned onslaught in Middle as well as in South East Asia, which is widely being conducted in the name of ‘war on terrorism’. Who would like to sever their life-line? As long as Al-Qaeda and figure head of Osama is there; US can avail a real easy hand to create their anchorage in the area and consolidate the bases in name of fighting against terrorism.”

  There seems to be reason to be believe this is more than partially true. However, I think it is not so much a deliberate clever policy, as it is the product of profound ignorance and arrogance. But either way, the creation/augmentation of the external threat does serve the imperialist ambitions. It also makes it politically difficult for the more moderate political factions within the US, as they can be made to look weak (or even traitorous) at any moment if a large scale attack succeeds.

Aamir Ali

I also believe that Pakistan does not hide any thing regarding terrorists. After this that rehabilitation process now is seen topsy-turvy; the matter has to be brought in control with lot of patience, skill and wisdom only. US do not want to know this all. Al-Qaeda existence has since become an umbilical cord to sustain US planned onslaught in Middle as well as in South East Asia, which is widely being conducted in the name of ‘war on terrorism’. Who would like to sever their life-line? As long as Al-Qaeda and figure head of Osama is there; US can avail a real easy hand to create their anchorage in the area and consolidate the bases in name of fighting against terrorism.

On the other hand Pakistan needs a real cure for the plague of extremism spreading and engulfing its entire society. It requires lot of effort and help coming from her real friends.

#91605 by A Khokar on 8/02 at 12:27 am: “...If America were Pakistan’s friends then they would have really understood the Al Qaeda or Taliban problem at very first hand….. ‘Global war on terror’ has become an open ended war and a licence to kill all the existing foes…..... Although Islamic religious card is a toothless tiger but west is deliberately provoking Islamic world to react; to form a negative opinion against them. .....On the whole, it is an exercise to create an Islamic monster in order to eliminate the so called opponents by force and at will….”

There is nothing new in Obama’s game, AK. He is merely following the Catholic pope from last year in trying to foment anti-Islamic sentiments in the West for his own gain.

The Pope Benedict XVI Islam controversy arose from a lecture delivered on 12 September 2006 by Pope Benedict XVI at the University of Regensburg in Germany in which he stated controversially “Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached…”.

The fact that the pope was referring to a comment by a bloodthirsty Byzantine “Christian” emperor in 1391,  Manuel II Paleologus, was a diplomatic gaffe which seriously backfired on him. Obama’s rhetoric will end up as his own very similar and very foolish mistake.

Farmertx and friends

If America were Pakistan’s friends then they would have really understood the Al Qaeda or Taliban problem at very first hand, which is so getting out of our controls now. Pakistan did said yes to US to go by the ‘Global war against Terror’ but real core problem of Pakistan at home was the rehabilitation of Mujahideen and Taliban forces in the camps right on its border belt.

But where President Musharraf failed to under stand it (at the very out set) was; that his joining the US in global War on terror scheme and adopting a U-Turn was a ploy and a snooze plotted by Neocons against him. General Musharraf by doing so; accepted to act as a well ‘paid enemy’ to present him self as musketry target; thus be beaten up and keep on bearing the brunt of US onslaught in a wider scheme of ‘Terrorism’ (which was revealed later).

To under take the rehabilitation requires a peaceful process, where as stirring the process and carrying out some acts of instigation against it generates mistrust and can create havoc. We see that this rehabilitation (futile) effort was made to fail which jeopardised the whole issue and AL-Qaeda took its birth; to rise and raise the arm against the US interests.

But short sightedness of Al-Qaeda and their supporters mired in the illusion of their vengeance fell prey to this bate and since then; all such (pre-emptive) moves of Al-Qaeda have very conveniently been falling right in place in favour of US; may it be, just a video tape of Osama bin Laden run by Al-Jazeera in the past before US midterm elections, or a message, or an ambush or a raid attack prior to any US moves; Al-Qaeda moves have always been right on the dot and in accordance with the demand of the situation. Very rightly all this has in turn, been supportive of US argument given in favour of ‘Global war on terror’ and thus justifying their killings. Al-Qaeda has never ever been seen, getting late on it. Never ever!
After creating a useful universal tool of Al-Qaeda’s for US; General Musharraf is a spent cartridge now; he must go to retire in his sleeping quarters. Where as George W Bush and his Neocons are now in love with Al-Qaeda. They are pinning all their hopes on Al Qaeda to act for them. Al Qaeda is always there for their rescue. Tactics of blaming every thing on Al-Qaeda happens to be a lynch pin of Neocons…dream policy. Al Qaeda is made up as universal omnipotent force, an invisible enemy, a servitude of US, designed to present itself as ‘fore runners’ to act as enemy for subsequent attack by US.

‘Global war on terror’ has become an open ended war and a licence to kill all the existing foes. It extends its authority to all the future would be adversaries, rivals as time goes by. It gives an immense power to declare any adversary, a terrorist thus eliminate any opponent at will without justification. Matter of fact is that ‘Terrorism’ is the tool being used for fuelling fear and terror in the minds of public at home in the western societies and justify the atrocities being committed out there. Although Islamic religious card is a toothless tiger but west is deliberately provoking Islamic world to react; to form a negative opinion against them. Most of the time Islamist response is patchy and it lacks coherence; a response of a spoilt child. On the whole, it is an exercise to create an Islamic monster in order to eliminate the so called opponents by force and at will.
We may assume that this may be George W Bush or any next would be President; in order to attain US hegemony in the world; this scenario is extendable beyond limit to keep US armed force to be deployed at any place of choice and any where in the world. Anarchy, mayhem in the houses of opponent and weaving of web of fear and terror in our own societies will stay in our lives for decade to come. These ‘Terrorist’ are at work on both the sides; and we all know that terrorist don’t take time off for vacation.

I need to amend the last statement. It would server America’s interest better to bomb the fuck out of the White House.

Americans need to wake up to the fact that Pakistan had more to do with the 9/ll attack than Iraq, Iran, N. Korea or any other foriegn terrorists.  We should be bombing the shit out 0f Pakistan for their support of the terrorists and Taliban. Bush is playing cozy with the wrong people. If he took his head out of his ass long enough long ago he would know this.  Pakistan is not a trusted ally. Pound the shit out of those mountains and fuck the Pakistan government. They chose their bedmates now die with them.

Americans need to wake up to the fact that Pakistan had more to do with the 9/ll attack than Iraq, Iran, N. Korea or any other foriegn terrorists.  We should be bombing the shit out ouf Pakistan for their support of the terrorists and Taliban. Bush is playing cozy with the wrong people. If he took his head out of his ass long enough long ago he would know this.  Pakistan is not a trusted ally. Pound the shit out of those mountains and fuck the Pakistan government. They chose their bedmates now die with them.

#91575 by sahmadi on 8/01 at 9:06 pm: “...Douglas Chambers, First sahmadi is my name you presumptuous blowhard ......Forgive me but Obama the Democrats or Republicans do not need to “demonize” Al Queda.  They do that job quite well.  Peaceful organization…??.”

Mannerlesss garbage, sahmadi. If you want to mis-spell my name, thry something more original, please. No, I don’t believe that “sahmadi” is either your name or representative of your spiritual state - sad as it is.

As regards “demonizing”, I specifically referred to “Hizb ut Tahrir” and Obama’s ludicrously offensive militarist statements. He is an obvious newcomer to “the art of war” - and he should rread more than just mere selected passages from either the Chinese or the European texts.

No, I don’t believe that “Zionists are behind the drug cartels” and, if you had read some of my previous comments on the subject in other threads, you would know that my view is that S.Arabia and the CIA are hand-in-hand in that respect.

Sadly, Obama has now proved himself to be yet another Cheney-Bush “heavy” and that does not bode well for America. The Democrats urgently need to make up their minds whether they are just another right-wing party touting health care and childrens’ issues as a front for giving the military-industrial complex all that it wants or whether they have a genuine peace alternative.

Douglas Chambers,

First sahmadi is my name you presumptuous blowhard.

Second you stated:

“In other words, Obama and the Democrats already preparing to demonize the next imaginary Al Queda even if it is a peaceful organization. Of course, the fact that it is anti-Zionist should indicate something just as with Hezb’ullah. Do you know anything ‘sahmadi’?”

Forgive me but Obama the Democrats or Republicans do not need to “demonize” Al Queda.  They do that job quite well.  Peaceful organization??...when you have evidence of their peaceful organization then I will review my opinion of Al Queda.  “Anti-Zionist”???? AAHHHHH I see where you are going with this.  The Zionists are the cause of the world’s problem…is that your contention…I guess the Chinese are Zionists…Russians are Zionists…I imagine you believe that the Zionists are behind the drug cartels.

I am a critic of Israel and Zionism, and I believe we need to be more even handed with Israel.  The problem with part of the world runs much deeper than Israel and Zionism.

#91522 by sahmadi on 8/01 at 4:03 pm: “...first read Obama’s speech before unfurling your empty critique….“Just because the President misrepresents our enemies does not mean we do not have them. The terrorists are at war with us. The threat is from violent extremists who are a small minority of the world’s 1.3 billion Muslims .....They seek to create a repressive caliphate…..”

You should get a name that you can understand and respect, ‘sahmadi’. 

As far as the loose cannon talk of Obama is concerned, “caliphate” refers to “Hizb ut Tahrir” -  the Global Islamic Political Party working for the reestablishment of Khilafah, Caliphate, Islamic state in the Muslim world - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hizb_ut-Tahrir

In other words, Obama and the Democrats already preparing to demonize the next imaginary Al Queda even if it is a peaceful organization. Of course, the fact that it is anti-Zionist should indicate something just as with Hezb’ullah. Do you know anything ‘sahmadi’?

Fools on the hill:

  I hate to say this, I was a big Obama fan, but you are right!
Verbally threatening a country’s sovereignity is NOT the way to go, but instead is irresponsible breast-beating. Foreigners usually take their sovereignity pretty seriously -especially when the transgressor is an 800pound gorilla. This is not the way for Obama to burnish his tough-guy image!

  I do hope that Musharref can transfer power to Ms Benazir Bhutto. It is time the moderate majority in Pakistan gets its democracy back.

A Khokar
First off, no one is ‘against’ Pakistan as such. However,if Pakistan wishes to hide and protect those responsible for the attack of 9/11, there will be a price to be paid.
Most of us don’t condemn all Muslims for the acts of these terrorist’s. But those terrorist’s are a legitimate target, because of their actions upon innocent civilians, as are those who would protect them.
Granted, our current occupant of the White House hadn’t enough sense to understand what he was doing when he invaded Iraq.
It’s hard for us American’s to separate the legitimate war on terror against bin Laden from the debacle that is Iraq. But there is a difference. Hopefully, a difference that will be acknowledged by the next person to lead the US.
We here are working to that end, among others.

For Musharraf – Its time to go…back to barracks

Pakistan was all thick and thin in Afghan war and in full charge of it as executive of this war. The entire Pakistan was mobilised to fight this war (jihad) in Afghanistan. At the end; those battle fields were still warm that an act of terrorism of 9/11 took place in United States. The entire mechanism of Jihadis was held responsible for this act of crime and was reprimanded by United States to face the dire consequences. At the international scene; the table was also turned against Pakistan. President Pervez Musharraf being at the helm of affairs was left with no choice but to denounce the crime and go with the verdict of international community. He very sheepishly took his famous U-Turn and joined the forces on ‘war against terrorism’; i.e. practically alienating and distancing from Jihadis forces and virtually declaring a war against …his own people. Musharraf had also given an undertaking to ensure that Jihadis activities are ceased in the (US supported) training camps in tribal area lying between Afghanistan and Pakistan.

This decision was taken by President in haste and in ‘state of fear’ without properly weighing the situation on ground and with out taking the concerned parties and people in confidence. After this Pakistan stood as a foe for the Jihadis groups. But for the time being it did…avert the immediate danger of war and Pakistan managed to escape the atrocious attack of US cruise missiles landing in their territory.

Six years on but there has been no signs of any known retrogression in the state of heightened vengeance of Jihadis. No scheme proved to work off and humble the disgruntled Jihadis or rehabilitate them in civil society. Rather it has resulted in escalation of anarchy and mayhem in Pakistan. Jihadis kept on taking new shapes and forms like AL-Qaeda and many other group of extremism have since come up. These Jihadis forces have grown so strong that they were able to challenge, very vehemently, the writ of Pakistan government right in the capital city- Islamabad.( which was so evident in recent Red Mosque operation).

After the Red Mosque fiasco; Pakistan is yet again being blamed for all the acts of terrorism in the world. NATO as well as U S forces are bent to strike the Jihadis targets inside Pakistan to eliminate the so called training camps of terrorism and probably no one can stop them. This is a colossal failure of President Musharraf policies and war is once again looming on heads. Many other significant developments in the country are also writing some different messages on the streets walls of Pakistan.

Where as this nation has to say good bye to the extremism; but probably time has also come where General Musharraf has to look for his exit now; His another five years as President may not bring any relief or restore the lost pride of this nation. Heads should roll and he should, in the greater interest of Pakistan, quit (himself) gracefully; so should do the Pak Army and go back to their barracks.

Long Live Pakistan

Pakistan was a de facto ally of the Taliban when Shrub bribed them to be on our side when we went into Afghanistan.
Then Rummy was unhappy that we were dropping 2000# bombs and doing $20,000 in improvements, so the Shrub decided that Iraq would be an easy target, as it had been for dad.
No doubt Pakistan has a fine line to walk between militant Muslim and mainstream Muslims.
Due to Shrub and his semi live-in not knowing what they are doing, no attempt has been made to find a recognized Muslim scholar to refute the teachings of the militants.
Obamas’ idea of air strikes against known targets isn’t quite the same as boots on the ground.
Whether any of this will lead to the Mideast exploding is for someone a lot more knowledgeable than me.
As ender said, it will take many years of hard dedicated work to put things right again.
The old USSR spent 40 years and no telling how much money to minimize US influence around the world.
Shrub, in just 4 years, at a cost of no telling how much money, accomplished their mission.

#91421 by David Sullivan on 8/01 at 10:54 am: “...Obama has not served in the Armed Forces, yet he is eagerly willing to engage in a provocative and aggressive action by invading Pakistan with American troops already stretched impossibly thin….”

Oh, goodie, the USA will now invade Pakistan. KFC in Karachi and another 4 million people - no make that 8 million - refugees in their own land.

What would the result be regionally? Turkey and Iran would both invade Iraq and that would be the end of that problem!

Then again, Pakistan only has “hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid….”. Make that about $20 billion and things might improve. Oh, they don’t have any oil though, do they? Oops, sorry!

The rhetoric “...There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again…” is more and more like that creep Wolfowitz. Something about senators from Illinois?

Despite the “diplomatic” approach of past weeks, Obama is obviously failing seriously with his run-in with Hillary and he deserved to be told off. Now he is heading for a serious run-in with Ms. Benazir Bhutto and she won’t be as kind in her response.

Osama is an idiot.  I think I just heard the nuclear clock tick.  Musharref and a reasonably secular military are all that is keeping Pakistan’s 20 or so nuclear warheads out of the hands of the Taliban.  It’s not Mushareffs fault that our idiot of a president decided to attack Iraq instead of fighting the war on terror against the group that attacked us.  Now they’ve escaped from Afghanistan and are using the Pakistani border to reestablish operatons in afghanistan.

It will take at least ten years of careful diplomacy to have a chance at unscrewing the pooch that Momma’s Little Cocaine Cowboy has thouroughly boned.