#91101 by mackTN on 7/31 at 10:28 am: “Hurrah!  Finally a candidate who exposes the ugly truth—we are not a theocracy.  Our government is not based on Christianity….”

These are TWO different things ‘mack’ but, sadly, the latter is true while the first is incorrect. Good for Obama that he has questioned these things because the government certainly hasn’t abided by any genuine Christian principles - and for a very long time - at least since 1945!

Effectively, the USA IS a theocracy of sorts based on outdated Christian fundamentalist pseudo-religious beliefs. The fact that they are continually pandered to is proof. What is worse, though, is that, in doing so, thay have opened the “Pandora’s box” of fawning over the Jewish pro-Israel Zionists who coudln’t give a damn about Christians as long as they can manipulate them for what they really want.

Thus you have the twin evil of politicians forever running after the ignorant petulant bigots who call themselves Christians and ALSO the exclusive group of Jews who don’t really appreciate America and are using the Christian’s “old testament” fantasies to undeservedly ingratiate themselves and, of course, solely for their own favor. Tne result is the death of Christianity from those burrowing parastic insects.

Americans have been caught “hook, line and sinker” on that nonsense and all because of the traditional Christian error of preaching the historic junk in their bible’s old testament instead of the real teachings of their religion’s founder in the “new testament”. In fact, it is only a very small portion of their bible - and somewhere at the back! Now, they are being thoroughly used and yet still seem unaware of it.

As for being relevant, both seem to have been unable to address the fact that science has now embraced “creation” as well as evolution. That is as far as the physicists are concerned and their “Big bang” theories confirm that there was an original “creation” although its creator was certainly no old man with a beard up in a cloud.

Outraged, you sound as sweeping in your generalizations as those you accuse of being exclusive. See my comments a few posts above.

You will find many (most) of those who claim to be ‘faithful’ to be merely uninformed and ignorant - both of the world around them, and of their own teachings. It’s no accident that the extremists of both Christian and Muslim faiths are those who do not read their own scriptures unaided. They merely ingest what’s spoon fed to them. The result is a backward-focused mindscape depending on the old verities, rather than confronting the uncertainties of the way forward.

(I know. I went to one of their colleges. And attend their churches, where I tell them what I am telling you here.)

Eric Lynn
Middle East Policy Advisor
Obama for America

Subject: Barack Obama: A Strong Record of Supporting Israel

BARACK OBAMA’S PLAN TO STRENGTHEN THE U.S.-ISRAEL RELATIONSHIP

Barack Obama has established a strong record as a true friend of
Israel, a stalwart defender of Israel’s security, and an effective
advocate of strengthening the steadfast U.S.-Israel relationship. 
He believes that Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state should
never be challenged.  As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations
Committee, Obama has consistently emphasized his commitment to our
ally Israel, and has been an active supporter of legislation
helping to ensure the support and security of the Middle East’s
only established democracy.  Obama continually works with a number
of his colleagues in the Senate to promote a closer relationship
between the U.S. and Israel on a range of fronts – security, 
economic, political, and cultural.

ENSURE A STRONG U.S.-ISRAEL PARTNERSHIP:  Barack Obama strongly
supports the U.S.-Israel relationship, a bond that is mutually
beneficial to each country as we share common values, histories, 
and a dedication to democracy.  Senator Obama believes that our
first and incontrovertible commitment in the Middle East must be to
the security of Israel…

SUPPORT FOREIGN ASSISTANCE TO ISRAEL:  Barack Obama has
consistently supported foreign assistance to Israel.  He defends
and supports the annual foreign aid package that involves both
military and economic assistance to Israel and has advocated
increased foreign aid budgets to ensure that these funding
priorities are met.  Additionally, he has called for sustaining the
unique U.S.-Israel defense relationship by fully funding military
assistance and continuing cooperative work on missile defense
programs, such as the Arrow.

Reply-To: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

fuck religion. tax the goddamned church and quit giving KKKristian assholes my tax money.

Hurrah!  Finally a candidate who exposes the ugly truth—we are not a theocracy.  Our government is not based on Christianity.  The faith of Americans is a purely private matter and has nothing at all to do with our policies, our laws, our government. 

Get thee behind me, Rev Graham and any religious figure who would attempt to theologize our system of government. 

In this country, originally founded as a sanctuary for those who suffered religious persecution and who desired a place where they could practice any religion (except witchcraft, I guess)with impunity, I say “hear, hear.”  Obama speaks.

As a member of the evangelical left (I think there are maybe 10 of us), I am in total agreement with Obama, and I have been pretty well shunned by the evangelical nutjobs who surround me. People who think this is a Christian nation. People who completely fail to understand the the parable of the Jesus they claim to have a ‘personal relationship’ with. When he said “Render to Caesar that which is Caesar’s, to God that which is God’s,” he was drawing an unmistakeable distinction.

Christians have failed for centuries at theocracy (look up ‘English Commonwealth’ or ‘Inquisition’ to see what a ‘Christian nation’ looks like.)

The blowhards who are ‘pastors’ of superchurches (Sunday morning pop culture concerts, actually) and other right wing theologians spin ‘theology’ out of disjointed biblical verses (try concocting a theory of the world with random sentences from an encyclopedia, which is what the bible is)

These are NOT Christians, they are the wolves in sheep’s clothing that Jesus warned us about. Jesus would not recognize them as one of his own.

In fact, The Revelation of St. John points out that ‘666’ (or GGG, since the Greek testament numerology doesn’t use Arabic numbers) will be a popular religious figure enticing the gullible in the name of Jesus. In other words, the antichrist will look a lot like Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, James Dobson, George W. Bush, Rick Warren, or Tim LaHaye.

It’s not just time for America to wake up to the evangelical threat. It’s time for evangelicals to wake up, period.

Religion is fine and dandy if you want to make a lucrative business of selling god the Wizard of Oz or Harry Potter.  Fables and stories are fine for some but not this guy, unless for pure entertainment.

Excessive authority and obsolete traditions can be amusing but when people blindly believe them with out thought or reason, history of religion has shown us a beacon of of death,  a bind monster of mob mentality.

We have a president who goes to war because god told him, the mad will have us follow them over the cliffs.

I appreciate Obama’s comment even though limited in content.

Though many Native American Indians are Christians, there are also many who adhere to ancient traditional ways of looking at spiritual and moral matters.

In addition, it seems that many Americans of mixed blood who have Native American DNA back in the family tree are also rediscovering new (old) ways of understanding spiritual elements around us.

Food for thought in the article ...

“Who is a Cherokee? Many Americans have Indians in the family tree”

PopulistAmerica.com  
Populist Party of America

http://www.populistamerica.com/who_is_a_cherokee

While it is true that our country was founded to escape relgious persecution, it also caused the phrase “Under God” to be included.
But when the 10 Commandments can’t be displayed at a Courthouse while we have politician’s boasting of their close association with God, there is a problem.
The religious right, and I agree, it’s a misnomer, has the right to support the candidate that appeals to them. But the race shouldn’t be solely about religion.
Many on the religious right would seem that they want a state religion. Then let them move to a country where there is a state religion.
Ave Maria, in Florida, is being developed as a high dollar religious community. That is ok with me. They can live in their own community, but don’t try and force their ideas and ideals on me.
The fact that the Shrub passed himself off as a religious person was laughable to me. And now the religious right sees that he just used their votes to get in office, then promptly ignored them, save the odd sound bite or photo-op.
Hopefully, they will be a tad leery of the next politician that appears and claims to talk to God.
And I’ve no doubt that the Shrub really believed that he was talking to God.
He’d come up with an idea (from Karl) and God didn’t strike him dead nor shoot a thunder bolt at him, so, ergo, God approved.

AMEN!  FINALLY - someone unafraid of the religous right and unafraid to lose thier votes!

Yes, definitely a breath of fresh air, and the first in a long time on the subject.  The idea that the US is a “Christian nation” has offended me since Pat Buchanan first started spouting that fear-based nonsense, and the dominionist movement of today is equally offensive.

I feel that religion in and of itself, dictates a perspective that is exclusive, not inclusive.  To say that Obama or anyone else “of faith” for that matter, can be realistically “open” to another’s point of view is hypocritical.  Depends on what you mean by “open.”  How did Bill Clinton put it, “it depends on what the meaning of “is”, is?  (I’m only paraphrasing, but it was something like that)

While I give him (Obama) all the credit in the world for standing up and saying so. What does that really mean?  I know many people “of faith”, in fact, I used to be one of them.  However, it doesn’t dissuade ME at least, from saying, what do you mean by “open”.  Yes, I know, this is a “whole ‘nother can of worms.”  Just the same, what does he precisely mean?

Before I get attacked by those of you “with faith” let me give my disclaimer.  This is not meant to trash you or your ideals.  I’ve met good and bad in all “avenues of society”.  As it stands, some care about the human condition and some, well, they just don’t.  I prefer to take people for who they ARE and not for what they “claim to stand for”.

Who is Obama? or Hillary? or Kuchinich? or Edwards, or Gravel? or any of these candidates?  A slippery slope, my friends, a very slippery slope.