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Ear to the Ground

Rove Subpoenaed in U.S. Attorney Firing Case

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Posted on Jul 26, 2007
rove
AP Photo / Ron Edmonds, File

Add Karl Rove to the mix of White House bigwigs whose feet may be put to the fire by the Senate Judiciary Committee in relation to the U.S. attorney firing scandal, which has jeopardized Attorney General Alberto Gonzales (even though his cronies continue to support him). 


TheHill.com

Leahy issued the subpoenas, one to Rove and one to White House aide Scott Jennings, after consulting with Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.), the committee’s ranking member.

“The Bush-Cheney White House continues to place great strains on our constitutional system of checks and balances,” Leahy added. “Not since the darkest days of the Nixon administration have we seen efforts to corrupt federal law enforcement for partisan political gain and such efforts to avoid accountability.”

The move is a further escalation of the constitutional battle between Congress and the White House over whether Bush administration officials must provide testimony and documents to legislative branch investigators.

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farmertx's avatar

By farmertx, July 29, 2007 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

I was one who said that Ronnie Reagan proved that whoever was President, America would survive.
Those words are not tasty worth a damn; I know, ‘cause I’ve et (sic) them.
Earnst and Cyrena,among many others here, have posted some thoughts and links that are truly eye opening.
Gonna have to do some deep thinking about what needs to be done in order to get impeachment back on the table.
First thought is a march on DC. But that would be seen as aiding terrorism by the Brown One, least as soon as Der Karl tells him that.
Then it becomes a question of whether enough of the Supremes remember that their duty is to the Constitution and not a political party? Too close to call now.

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By ardee, July 29, 2007 at 10:23 am Link to this comment

P.S.
Just got a call from a fishing buddy in Redding,Ca. The salmon are inclined to bite early at Los Medanos on the Sacto River, so , Im gone. He said he’d have his jet boat ready at 4:30 AM tomorrow morning and I should be there rod in hand ( no cracks please).....

Just wanted to explain my lack of commentary until about Tuesday .....

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By ardee, July 29, 2007 at 10:19 am Link to this comment

All this talk of a cabal or coup impending achieves what exactly? Scares off some, frightens others into frustrated withdrawal from potential actions? How on earth does one plan for such an eventuality anyway? Thinking of fleeing the country? Bye now.

This Congress has been slow to react to a power play by the Executive branch but it is now acting, however slowly. Should a device be exploded in a major US city I seriously doubt that we will see what Ernest so scarily forecasts, but should we see the attempt chaos will certainly ensue.

Congress will rise up at the displacement of its authority, some military units will refuse orders, others will go further and place themselves at the disposal of local authority, some will remain loyal to the CinC. We see that many high ranking Pentagon officials are already muttering and dissatisfied at this futile effort weakening our military. The USA is not, in my strong opinion, a candidate for such as Mr. Canning threatens.

In any event what is lacking here is a solution to what is proposed and that is a fatal flaw and makes all the scare tactics rather useless, at least to me, in fact it disturbs me as to motivation. Many of us are already acting to push our elected officials to impeach, to hasten investigations which, if concluded, will hasten the departure of this administration and send some key members thereof to jail.

What else can we do Mr. Canning? Why harp on something to which you offer no solution as yet?

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By cann4ing, July 29, 2007 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

Bukko says “America is not the Weimar Republic, devastated by a war and years of economic ruin.”  Actually, World War I predated the creation of the Weimar Republic.  The economic ruin was one that was experienced world-wide, aka “The Great Depression.”

The U.S., on the other hand, has been waging war, non-stop for nearly six years, longer than WW II.  The regime has attempted to place the U.S. on a permanent war footing under an Orwellian “war on terror.”  The economy is very near collapse, propped up by massive borrowing.  Housing prices are falling faster than at any time since the Great Depression, and the stock market does not reflect the status of the “domestic” economy; merely the status of the multinational corporations. 

The Cheney/Addington assault on the rule of law has been comprehensive; well-thought out.  While increasing numbers of Americans have at least become acquainted with the more ignominious features of the regime—torture, extraordinary renditions, the end of habeas corpus—far too few fully appreciate the ramifications of the radically subversive “Unitary Executive” theory that lies beneath the now more than 1,000 presidential signing statements and assertions that once the President invokes executive privilege, he can prevent the Justice Department from bringing contempt of Congress charges.

With the creation of massive, computerized data bases that make it possible to retrieve a complete dossier on “any” individual in seconds, with increasing levels of surveillance already in place, the U.S. already has all the trappings of a police state.  All that is needed now is a single, horrific event to trigger the final stage of a slide into totalitarianism.

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By cyrena, July 29, 2007 at 4:28 am Link to this comment

#90565 by Bukko in Australia on 7/29 at 2:10 am
•  Meanwhile, make a plan. What are YOU going to do if the whip comes down?

Well Bukko, that’s exactly what Ernest has been encouraging us to consider. And, quite frankly, I had been reluctant to do so, knowing all too well, just how bad things have become, but still not thinking that things could ever come to this point. I’m not a gloom and doom person, (though I’ve certainly known many) and I’m not one to overreact. Matter-of-fact, I’m pretty much a low-keyed minimalist, and a firm believer in the philosophy that most “things” can and do, “manage” themselves. I believe that people can generally be trusted to “police” themselves, individually, and collectively. But, we’ve gotta be pragmatic,wise.

So yeah, we do have to seriously consider a plan. It’s irresponsible not to. And, old plans should be reassessed, based on the changes that occur daily. Because, quite frankly, the shit has already hit the fan. Now we’re talking about containment. Or, at least some “organization” to the blowing of all this excrement.

OK, here are a few things that give us some “signs” here, (since I don’t look for them in the Holy Books). This is far more up-to-date news you can use. This article is the same scenario that Ernest and a few others have mentioned. Seymour Hersch wrote some excellent pieces as well, even before this one, on all of the preparations for the Iran attack. He hadn’t made a connection however, to that as a second 9/11.

The Pentagon’s “Second 911”
<http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=viewArticle&code=CHO20060810&articleId=2942>

Travelers Face Greater Use of Personal Data
  By Paul Lewis and Spencer S. Hsu
  The Washington Post
  Friday 27 July 2007
“The United States and the European Union have agreed to expand a security program that shares personal data about millions of U.S.-bound airline passengers a year, potentially including information about a person’s race, ethnicity, religion and health.”
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072807G.shtml

Then, there’s this warning from the A.C.L.U., and really not to be taken lightly…it’s not like they make these kinds of “general statements” on a regular schedule.

ACLU: US Constitution in Grave Danger
  United Press International
Wednesday 25 July 2007
  Washington - The American Civil Liberties Union Wednesday said it is “do or die time” to save the U.S. Constitution.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072707K.shtml

And, if you wanna know how things are going with the “benchmarks” and all in Iraq, and the political “breathing space” that we’re allegedly providing, then you can check this out, because it actually has a trace of humor to it. (or at least I thought so). Tragic humor, since the Saudis are now telling somebody in the white house, that they refuse to deal with Maliki, and that they have “evidence” that he is an Iranian intelligence agent. Meantime, Maliki is thoroughly pissed off with Patraeus, and has demanded that george remove him, because he doesn’t wanna deal with him. George told him to calm down. (Maliki that is).

Iraqi Leader Tells Bush: Get Gen Petraeus Out
  By Damien McElroy
  The Telegraph UK
Saturday 28 July 2007
  Relations between the top United States general in Iraq and Nouri al-Maliki, the country’s prime minister, are so bad that the Iraqi leader made a direct appeal for his removal to President George W Bush.

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072807B.shtml

And then, along the same theme as most of the above, there are more hassles for Michael Moore.

Michael Moore Says He’s Been Served
  United Press International
  Thursday 26 July 2007
  Burbank, California - Michael Moore said Thursday that the Bush administration has served him with a subpoena regarding his trip to Cuba during the making of his new film, “Sicko

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/072707R.shtml

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By Bukko in Australia, July 29, 2007 at 3:10 am Link to this comment

I’m with you in the “panic” corner, Ernest, but I also believe Ardee is right about the depth of democracy’s roots in America and the fundamental weakness of President Cheney’s position.

The venomous snake, the rapist, the serial killer, Dick Cheney and his henchmen—they count on the victim thinking “This can’t be happening.” They take advantage of the paralysis to make their strike. The disbelief doesn’t dissipate until the pain of the fang, the knife, or the putsch, hits the brain.

After all, what else can Cheney do? He didn’t snatch all that power to give it to Hillary. He knows if someone else takes control, ALL his bullshi*t is going to be revealed. It will devastate his political faction and doom him to prison. The evil Cheney has done is like grabbing the proverbial tiger by the tail—you can’t let go, or it will turn around and devour you.

On the bright side, I believe the American people won’t stand for it. The putsch won’t come until after some trial runs—imposition of limited martial law in the wake of a hurricane; or urban rioting; or smaller “terrorist” attacks. It will actually be in Cheney’s interest to have an economic collapse in America (let’s see how the stock market goes) because that will keep everyone off balance and scared. In chaos, he can steal—power. Maybe he’ll launch missiles against Iran just for that reason—to ignite a worldwide conflagration to cover his attacks.

But America is not Weimar Germany, devastated by a war and years of economic ruin. There will always be Bush cultists, authoritarians and fascists in the population. But they’re a minority. The majority will resist with general strikes, demonstrations like the Orange Revolution in Ukraine and political disobedience. Cheney will be stopped, but at what price? I mean in economic disruption, property damage and lost lives.

It will be interesting to see which politicians and geographic regions obey the call for martial law, if it comes. Will Rick Perry in Texas and Charlie Crist in Florida put their National Guard units at the service of the federal putschists? Will police fire tear gas, rubber bullets and live ammunition into people demanding democracy? Will Blackwater goons march thousands of protesters into the KBR prisons being built on abandoned military bases? Some will, but I think there are not enough with the stomach for oppressing their countrymen to pull it off.

Meanwhile, make a plan. What are YOU going to do if the whip comes down?

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By cyrena, July 29, 2007 at 12:22 am Link to this comment

#90475 by ardee on 7/28 at 3:27 pm
Cyrena

To make bold use [] with a b inside.
to make italics use [] with an i inside.
to blockquote use, you guessed it, with a blockquote inside.

To end the thing simply use the same [] with an / before the b or i or blockquote…..hope this helps.

ARDEE, Thanks! I’m going to try this, and we’ll see if I can get the hang of it.

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By cann4ing, July 28, 2007 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment

ardee, I would like you to be right.  I fear that you are not.  If the vast majority of the American people and the Congress do not awake to the danger, if the putch comes, it may be too late for those who insist that survival of the Republic is not in jeopardy.  America may be in for a very rude awakening. 

That was Kissinger’s point in “A World Restored.”  Those who warn of the danger in time are viewed as alarmists.

We Americans have always thought ourselves exceptional.  We have the world’s oldest functioning democracy; a constitution supporting the rule of law that is more than two hundred years old.  How could a cabal pervert it into a police state?

This attitude calls to mind Eric Fromm’s “forward” to George Orwell’s “1984.”

“Books like Orwell’s are powerful warnings, and it would be most unfortunate if the reader smugly interpreted ‘1984’ as another description of Stalinist barbarism, and if he does not see that it means us, too.”

Frankly, when a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan, a Republican no less, warns of the coming putch, I think it foolhardy not to take him serious.

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By cyrena, July 28, 2007 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment

Well, I’m sure trying to think on the bright side. My own memories of our nation’s “great history” though, doesn’t include a survival of all. Yep, some of us are still here, but…there’s that 200 year old habit of slavery, that can’t quite be ignored.

And, we haven’t all “survived”.

The prisons are all full now. They want to build more.

But, you’re right, they did finally make amends to the Japanese that were “concentrated”, even if it meant that we would graduate to kidnapping and torture 60 years later.

Just not looking like a real good track record. We’re still the only “civilized” nation, (besides South Africa) that DEMANDS the death penalty.

Why do I think we’re going backwards?

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By cyrena, July 28, 2007 at 4:38 pm Link to this comment

If the putch is to be averted, the time for action is now.  We the People must pressure our elected representatives to do their duty to act as Guardians of the Constitution.  We must pressure them to join with Dennis Kucinich in seeking to impeach the most dangerous man in America.  If we fail in that effort, so will the Republic.

Ardee, your reponse here…

....“I agree with everything but the very last sentence, I guess I believe my nation is strong enough to survive a tinhorn would be dictator, and George Bush too”....

Here again, your feelings are reasonable enough, except for one thing that’s the most obvious…

That is that GEORGE BUSH, (tinhorn -would be- dictator that he is) is NOT the danger. Cheney is. I think your sincerity is no match for his ruthlessness. George…we can survive. Cheney and his “team”, is a whole different conversation.

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By ardee, July 28, 2007 at 4:33 pm Link to this comment

Our second President, John Adams, imprisoned journalists who disagreed with him for two year terms. In fact, upon assuming office, President Thomas Jefferson pardoned those few remaining in jail, including, by the by, the grandson of Benjamin Franklin.

Yet here we are still!

My point being that we are far stronger than all this talk of cabals and putschs’. We need to take action to be certain but I believe very strongly that all this doom and gloom talk serves not to strengthen but to frighten. Enough said, by me…...

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By ardee, July 28, 2007 at 4:27 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena

To make bold use [] with a b inside.
to make italics use [] with an i inside.
to blockquote use, you guessed it, with a blockquote inside.
To end the thing simply use the same [] with an / before the b or i or blockquote…..hope this helps.

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By ardee, July 28, 2007 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment

Ernest

If Americans really dig in their heels at the prospect of authoritarianism, how do you explain the actions of the so-called “Democratic leadership” who insist that impeachment is “off-the-table?” I wonder what the framers of the Constitution would have thought if Speaker Pelosi could travel back in time to tell them their “impeachment clause” was a waste of time.

I do not defend the Democratic Party or its elected representatives. The Americans I spoke about are the citizenry, not those whose every working day is spent in unreality removed from the very real concerns of our population. You may be discouraged by the slowness which characterises our population’s awareness, but I see signs all around that we are awakening.

If the putch is to be averted, the time for action is now.  We the People must pressure our elected representatives to do their duty to act as Guardians of the Constitution.  We must pressure them to join with Dennis Kucinich in seeking to impeach the most dangerous man in America.  If we fail in that effort, so will the Republic.

I agree with everything but the very last sentence, I guess I believe my nation is strong enough to survive a tinhorn would be dictator, and George Bush too….

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By cyrena, July 28, 2007 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

#90394 by Ernest Canning on 7/28 at 9:45 am

•  …..”Ardee, if seven years ago, before the Supreme Court coup, I told you that…..(the whole list of unprecedented horrors goes here)....you probably, at that point in our history, would have suggested that I be locked up as a total psyche job.”….

So….Ardee, you’ve gotta admit, Ernest is right. If he had been spouting this stuff 7 years ago, you would have been looking for a way to get him some “professional help”, and make sure he was “confined”. If not you, then surely someone. I barely escaped being burned at the stake myself, and I didn’t even come CLOSE to any of these suggestions. It was enough (for the lynch mob) that I wasn’t willing to buy into the whole ‘down the rabbit hole’ alternative reality. The whole “if you’re not with us, then you’re against us” theme was very troubling for me, and I’ve since paid the cost. (though it certainly could have been WORSE, since I did escape the stake, or at least the worst of the flames)

Still, the bottom line is that back then, folks like us were “cassandra’s” and considered belligerents and nut-jobs to boot.

And yet, here we are, and this too, remains true….

•  ….”Yet, every one of these things have come to pass—and still most Americans do not see the gravity of the danger.”….

That’s the scary part. The fact that we weren’t “nut-jobs” after all, and more tragically, most Americans STILL do not recognize or comprehend the gravity of the danger…

So, even if we could dismiss the possibility of a “manufactured” attack,  just because of how obscene the whole concept is, we still cannot ignore the state that we are currently in,  or how we’ve come to be in this near police state, in a mere 7 years. This stuff, has already come to pass. So, it could be a mild state of denial, that forces us to avoid considering the ultimate worse thing.

I don’t believe that cheney needs to create another disaster here at home, JUST to initiate a hit on Iran, because he’s obviously had that in the plans all along. BUT, the tactics that they have so far used, (in attempting to plant a “justification” for striking Iran) have NOT been well received by a populace that has heard all of this same stuff before. (the non-existent WMD in Iraq, and the alleged “connection” to al-Qaeda) So, all of the tales of IED’s with serial numbers on them, supposedly “proving” that they were shipped into Iraq from Iran, and all the rest of this manufactured incidents intended to provoke Iran, or give reason for cheney to “strike”, are not impressing anyone this time around.

So, they’ve resorted –again- to a “cycle of fear”, which is why we’ve recently had Chertoff’s “gut” nearly GUARANTEEING, that we’re gonna have another “terrorist attack” on our own soil…this summer.

And, both dick and george are STILL giving speeches to college graduates, (war colleges as well as the traditional ones) and STILL claiming that Saddam would not “disarm” and that he was connected to al-Qaeda. Add that to all of the other “warnings” that we’re getting, and quite frankly, it all seems a bit creepy to me, and that’s without even needing to read the article that Cheney is determined to strike the US. He’s already struck. He’s been striking for all of these years now.

And yes, we can look at New Orleans, (which is ostensibly a destroyed society, because of a hurricane) but in reality, it’s one of the best microcosms available, to see exactly where we ALL are headed.  So many of us knew, (In our hearts and minds) within days after that disaster of Katrina, that New Orleans would never be rebuilt, and even if it was, there would be no people of color returning to it.

That prediction has also been fulfilled.

This kind of stuff is simply impossible to ignore.

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By cyrena, July 28, 2007 at 11:42 am Link to this comment

#90400 by Ernest Canning on 7/28 at 9:59 am

Ernest, Thanks for this link. I’d already signed this petition last night, because it came to me via email. I hadn’t bothered to secure the link though. This enabled me to send it along to my list of elders and others who don’t frequent the blogsphere.

I’m hoping that everyday people (like all of us are) will recognize the significance of having these names entered into the Congressional Record.

On the other hand, my paranoia has been elevated (even more) and I briefly wondered if “the enemy” might use this against us, if the putsch really happens.

But, I signed it anyway, figuring that I’m probably already on numerous “lists” as it is.

http://www.democrats.com/impeach-cheney-congressional-record

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By cann4ing, July 28, 2007 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

For those Truthdiggers who are actually interested in “doing something” go to

http://www.democrats.com/impeach-cheney-congressional-record

Dennis Kucinich wants citizens to sign in to have their names placed in the Congressional Record as supporting articles of impeachment against Cheney.

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By cyrena, July 28, 2007 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

Ardee, I understand about the CAPS. Unfortunately, I’ve been forced to use them myself, if only because I haven’t figured out how to do bold or italic scriptin the comment boxes.

Anyway, although the below comments from you, were actually addressed to Ernerst, I am sort of joining into the discussion, because I have a few questions myself….
#90372 by ardee on 7/28 at 8:45 am:

•  ….”In Germany you saw a social and political unrest and rampant unemployment and soaring inflation to boot. Add to that a Nazi Party filled with rather intelligent leadership, a plan and the means to carry out that strategy.”…

Now, you were speaking of Germany, before the putsch. BUT, if you really think about it, don’t we have pretty much that SAME thing right here? We have, (without a doubt) social and political unrest, and it’s growing in front of our eyes. Soaring inflation has certainly grown in front of MY OWN eyes, and I’d say that the Repubs have done a damn good job of DESTROYING our constitution. And with every E/O and signing statement that cheney’s attorneys writefor george to sign, it only gets worse.

Then you question this…(a legitimate question I would add)

•  ….”What have you behind Cheney and Rove? Do you believe that the coterie of stupid and/or incompetent people like Rice and Rumsfeld, Perle and Wolfowitz can hope to successfully carry out a scheme as proposed? I do not.”…

Here again, I worry that you may be mixing variables that don’t have the same value. I don’t believe that the likes of Condi Rice, (and possibly even Karl Rove) are entirely “entwined” with the motivations of Cheney and Rumsfeld, or even necessarily Perle, (who is more of a Tom Delay type hanger-on). Condi is amateurish without a doubt, but she isn’t exactly on the same “team” as cheney, though one might certainly assume so, because of her Chevron connection, and the whole neocon cabal in general. But, even within that crowd, ALL are not equal. Cheney has his own inner circle, and all plans revolve around HIS shadow agenda. Sometimes that might involve Rove, Rumsfeld, (more than you might realize on the rummy connection) as well as Perle, and Wolfie, and all of the others who blew it back at the beginning, and may have less prominence within the agenda at this point.

So, what I guess I’m basically saying is that not all players have been involved at every point along the way, and in many cases, they’ve been pushing/pulling on the controls at opposing directions. (such as Cheney’s insistence on attacking Iran, and Condi’s recent feeble attempts to get george to back off.) And, these disagreements happen often, between what Condi is trying to get george to do, and what cheney eventually INSISTS that he do. And, cheney’s is always the last word. Condi is no match for him, and in the end, neither is anybody else. Consequently, my only question has been how or why Rove has basically allowed george, (following the orders of cheney) manage to bring the ENTIRE republican party down, in a way that would suggest they can never recover. For me, that is the most peculiar thing about it all.

Ernest suggests (as does Paul Krugman) that it’s because cheney simply doesn’t CARE about the “party” aside from the personal power that he has been able to derive from it. So….in the end, that provokes a different component of the question or thought that you cannot entertain, which is your response to the thought of a manufactured attack (on us) by these very people:

•  ….”and I cannot conceive of such folks as this executing such against their own people.

I understand your position very well, since I could never imagine such a thing myself. Unfortunately, there are far too many questions surrounding the 9/11 attacks, to allow myself to disregard this as the previously “inconceivable” that is was. So, while I don’t know HOW he did it, or exactly HOW he was involved, I’m overwhelmingly convinced that dick cheney had a hand in that. If he’s done it before…???

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By cann4ing, July 28, 2007 at 10:45 am Link to this comment

“We dig in our heels,” Ardee says, “at authoritarianism.” 

Ardee, if seven years ago, before the Supreme Court coup, I told you that America would pass draconian legislation permitting the government to see even what we check out at a library; that it would engage in widespread torture, holding the innocent for years without charge in dungeons all over the world; eradicating a right of habeas corpus that dates back to the Magna Carta; that it would permit the NSA to assemble a data base on every American who has made a phone call; that it would engage in a “virtual” election that would permit the hard-right to remain in power, and that a cabal could take the nation to war, aided by a media that acts as a propaganda network more effective than anything Tass or Pravda could ever come up with; that it would be faced with an unprecedented assertion of unchecked, dictatorial powers under the radically subversive doctrine of a “Unitary Executive”—an executive who asserts that he and he alone can define the scope of his powers and which laws he will enforce, you probably, at that point in our history, would have suggested that I be locked up as a total psyche job.

Yet, every one of these things have come to pass—and still most Americans do not see the gravity of the danger. 

I think having the bumbling, dyslexic dubya up front; utilizing perceptions of incompetence, has served those at the wheels of power quite well by diverting our attention from the fact that Iraq and Katrina were disasters “by design.”

If Americans really dig in their heels at the prospect of authoritarianism, how do you explain the actions of the so-called “Democratic leadership” who insist that impeachment is “off-the-table?”  I wonder what the framers of the Constitution would have thought if Speaker Pelosi could travel back in time to tell them their “impeachment clause” was a waste of time.

I am sorry to be the bearer of bad news to someone whose integrity I admire, but I see very little difference between today’s “Democratic leadership” and the hapless Social Democrats of the Weimar Republic who just could not recognize the gravity and immediacy of the danger before it was too late to do anything about it.

To borrow a line from Star Wars, “Don’t underestimate the power of the dark side of the force.”

If the putch is to be averted, the time for action is now.  We the People must pressure our elected representatives to do their duty to act as Guardians of the Constitution.  We must pressure them to join with Dennis Kucinich in seeking to impeach the most dangerous man in America.  If we fail in that effort, so will the Republic.

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By ardee, July 28, 2007 at 9:45 am Link to this comment

Ernest,

I see all the factors you speak to in your links. I’ve no doubt that Cheney is capable and most willing to engage in such political maneuverings, nor do I doubt that Bush is little more than a posturing and simple minded fool who follows along with Cheney’s plans and schemes.

I look to the putsch in Germany for examples and I do find a rather striking difference. Not only do we here in the USA have a long and proud history of democracy but we dig in our heels at authoritarianism from our elected officials. In Germany you saw a social and political unrest and rampant unemployment and soaring inflation to boot. Add to that a Nazi Party filled with rather intelligent leadership, a plan and the means to carry out that strategy. What have you behind Cheney and Rove? Do you believe that the coterie of stupid and/or incompetent people like Rice and Rumsfeld, Perle and Wolfowitz can hope to successfully carry out a scheme as proposed? I do not.

May we see a nuclear device exploded in a major US city? If so would that be a planted incident in order to assume dictatorial powers and negate a coming election? Questions beyond my realm of reality, Im afraid. Not enough folks to do this, not enough secrecy, and I cannot conceive of such folks as this executing such against their own people.

Does this make me naieve? Do I fail to see the disturbing trends as the torture and rendering of folks whose links to terrorism is unknown? Am I unaware that someone executed Pat Tillman with three M-16 rounds to the head at less than ten yards? Do I think Lee Harvey Oswald actually murdered JFK?

Look Ernest, if I may, these headings such as you enumerate and believe in the reality of are simply irrelevent to my daily political works and directions. I cannot plan for such exigencies nor, if true, can I prevent such, perish the thought. But what I can do is continue to attempt to make clear to my representatives in Washington that I want the investigations and now the perjury and contempt citations to hasten. I can continue to speak to issues that have a hope of believability by a majority. I do what I can.

In the end this sort of stuff, like the talk about 9/11 being a manufactured event, is not productive. I do not say it isnt true but I say that we have work to do, work that will negate the possibilities of a cabal, work that will, if successful, lead perhaps to actual investigations into 9/11, when sanity and honesty is restored to Washington,D.C. It is that goal to which I work, it is that to which I prefer to speak and it is that which will hope to gain a majority of decent Americans as allies.

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By cann4ing, July 28, 2007 at 9:41 am Link to this comment

Ardee & Cyrena, the fact that there had been a cycle between the Gilded Age, the Great Awakening in the FDR years, and now a Gilded Age does not mean that the cycle cannot be broken.  I am convinced the Cheney cabal intends to break the cycle, permanently!

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By cann4ing, July 28, 2007 at 9:20 am Link to this comment

Ardee, I don’t know why my response to your concerns about the LaRouche connections were not posted.  I would not give “any” credence to Tarply or Rense, but the critical aspects of the article pertain to what Paul Craig Roberts, a Republican and a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan administration with whom I have personally corresponded, has to say on the subject.  It also sets forth what Zbigniew Brzezinsky, former Secretary of State in the Carter administration has to say.

These to men are not exactly cross-eyed conspiracy theorists.  Roberts, who contends that most Americans do not understand how ruthless Cheney is, believes that there is something big coming and that, if Congress doesn’t act to impeach very soon, before November 2008 America will be a police state.  He notes that all the executive orders necessary to carry out such a plan are already in place.

Brezinsky is more focused on Iran.  He thinks the cabal will stage a terrorist strike within the U.S., then blame it on Iran so as to launch a war against that nation.

I think Roberts is a man who knows what he is talking about, especially as he is personally acquainted with the individuals within the cabal.  The one area in which my own thinking and Roberts’s thinking diverges is in the area of motive.  Roberts claims that Bush/Cheney/Rove understand poll numbers; that they realize that the Republicans are headed for their largest historical defeat since FDR was first elected in 1932.  I believe that the cabal, potentially subject to future death penalty war crimes prosecutions if they leave office, feels that it must act.  Moreover, I believe that Cheney/Addington are a “revolutionary power” and our circumstance match that described by Henry Kissinger in his 1957 doctoral thesis, “A World Restored.”

“Lulled by a period of stability which had seemed permanent, they find it nearly impossible to take at face value the assertion of the revolutionary power that it means to smash the existing framework.  The defenders of the status quo…begin by treating the revolutionary power as if its protestations were merely tactical….Those who warn against the danger in time are considered alarmists; those who counsel adaptation to circumstance are considered balanced and sane….But it is the essence of a revolutionary power that it possesses the courage of its convictions, that it is willing, indeed eager, to push its principles to their ultimate conclusions.”

In “The Great Unraveling,” Paul Krugman noted that when he read “this passage” it “sent chills down my spine, because it explains so well the otherwise baffling process by which the administration has been able to push radical policies through, with remarkably little scrutiny or effective opposition.” 

I am convinced that, while he enjoys riches, what Cheney is all about is power—pure, unchecked, total power; that he had never accepted the validity of America’s Constitutional democracy; that his goal is, and has always been, a totalitarian America with Dick Cheney in control of all the levers of power; that he means to see this counter-revolution to its conclusion even if it would require exploding a dirty bomb in a U.S. city to accomplish it.

As I posted elsewhere on this site with respect to an article that links Prescott Bush to a 1930s fascist plot to overthrow FDR, if this putch does come, what, pray tell, are We the People to do?

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By ardee, July 28, 2007 at 6:28 am Link to this comment

Cyrena

Thanks for the kind words. I didnt notice the post to which you referred (outraged) because I skip posts containing capital letters which I consider to be shouting.
I read it at your reference and found it substantially factual, shame about the caps…...we will get nowhere without calmness and rationality.

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By ardee, July 28, 2007 at 6:16 am Link to this comment

Oh and I am concerned about the deafening silence regarding the LaRouche connection in your reference material. Surely you are not assumng any credibility from such sources?

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By ardee, July 28, 2007 at 6:14 am Link to this comment

Ernest…Two different computers, two different phone lines , same result?

Page Cannot Be Found
You’ve requested a VDARE.com page that cannot be found. The page you are looking for may have moved or it may no longer be available. We apologize for the inconvenience.

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By cyrena, July 27, 2007 at 8:45 pm Link to this comment

#90011 by ardee on 7/27 at 4:38 am

Ardee, great post, including this:

....One should reread the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the speeches of FDR, of JFK, of MLK, the history of this nation in general and restore the sense of our strength. Things have been bad before and they got better, and this time is no exception. American politics is cyclic in nature and what goes around always comes around. We the people fell asleep and have paid the price for that, but now we are awakening….
******************

And, I think most of us agree. Matter of fact, Outraged said pretty much the same thing, in post
#89993 by Outraged on 7/27 at 2:19 am

Outraged may use a different track, but it’s pretty much the same consciousness, which is that we ARE in a fight (that you call the perfect storm, which is also a traditionally excellent description for what is going on here) but at the bottom line, we all seem to agree that these writings, (and encouraged readings)are tools that we can and should use to our advantage.

Knowledge IS power, but not much good if it isn’t shared.

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By cann4ing, July 27, 2007 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

ardee, I just tried the link.  It works fine for me.

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By ardee, July 27, 2007 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment

P.S. Ernest, the Roberts link isnt working…...I hope he isnt another…well never mind.

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By ardee, July 27, 2007 at 3:56 pm Link to this comment

#90057 by Ernest Canning on 7/27 at 8:45 am
(737 comments total)

Ardee, an essential additional link is

http://www.rense.com/general77/chens.htm

The article, by Webster G. Tarpley, is entitled, “Cheney Determined to Strike in US with WMD This Summer:  Only Impeachment, Removal or General Strike Can Stop Him.”

Ernest, Tarpely is Lyndon LaRouche’s guy, are you comfortable using him and Chaitkin ( another LaRouchian) as sources?

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By August West, July 27, 2007 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment

If Darth Cheney is willing to attack Iran (which would shut down middle east oil production and cause all hell to break loose), I don’t put it past him to burn the Reichstag.

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By cann4ing, July 27, 2007 at 9:45 am Link to this comment

Ardee, an essential additional link is

http://www.rense.com/general77/chens.htm

The article, by Webster G. Tarpley, is entitled, “Cheney Determined to Strike in US with WMD This Summer:  Only Impeachment, Removal or General Strike Can Stop Him.”

So much for the idea they would never unveil a new product line until September.

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By cann4ing, July 27, 2007 at 9:17 am Link to this comment

ardee, link to the article in my post #89909.  The idea that a Cheney-led cabal is plotting either a series of “terrorist incidents” or a major terrorist event, such as the explosion of a dirty bomb in a U.S. city, in order to trigger a declaration of a national emergency, martial law, a shutting down of Congress and a dictatorial police state does not come from wide-eyed conspiracy theorists, but from Paul Craig Roberts, the former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration who was responsible for Reaganomics, from Pat Buchanan and from Zbigniew Brzezinsky, who served as Secretary of State in the Carter administration.  Brzezinsky believes Cheney wants to blame such an assault on Iran so as to justify the invasion of that country.  Elsewhere Roberts points out that the most likely timing for such an event would be while the Democratic Congress is in recess and that the executive orders for such an event are already in place.

I’ve always considered Cheney a cold, heartless bastard, but if he would really go so far as to nuke an American city just to insure that none of us would utter a peep in protest as he set about dismantling the last vestiges of our Constitutional Republic, that would make him a murderous sociopath who would rank alongside Hitler and Stalin.  It is just plain creepy to even consider placing any “American” alongside those two diabolical mass murderers.  But….

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By Margaret Currey, July 27, 2007 at 9:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bringing in people to talk is useless, they will either not remember or take the fifth, the only thing to be done is to start Impeachment against Bush and Chaney.

The thing that gets me mad is that Chaney has connection to the DOJ and he surely used that information, like when there is an investigation into taking some Republicians down, just fire the procescator doing that case, to start up would take time and by that time they will be out of office, beyond the pale, the time for Impeachment is now before more people get pardoned and Bush declares himself dictator and stops the elections, who needs elections when we are in a war and anyway these people know best, that is how a dictatorship begins.

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By ardee, July 27, 2007 at 5:38 am Link to this comment

Do I detect a lack of perception of the strength of our democracy and the ultimate wisdom of our electorate?

Are things bad? Certainly. Could they get worse? Possibly. Will our nation’s strength be tested sorely? Oh yeah it will. Do I expect a putsch or overthrow of the government? Nope I do not.

We are in a perfect storm situation. We have an Executive that has stolen two national elections and feels untouchable. We have the weakest Legislature in modern history, cowardly opposition leaders with no plan other than allowing the wheels of justice to slowly grind to a conclusive result. But this may very well be enough.

When I read the boiling rages posted here and elsewhere, calling for some sort of action but never specifying what sort ( good thing considering secret prisons await them should they ask us to engage in violence ;} ) I cannot help but see them as useless and even counter to progress. They may express frustration and anger well but they do not deliniate a course of action at all helpful.

Bush has a year and a half left in office, regardless of what real or manufactured events occur between then and now. The polls, the fundraising efforts, the blogosphere, all show that a groundswell is building and that people are getting rather tired of Bush and company.

One should reread the Constitution, the Federalist Papers, the speeches of FDR, of JFK, of MLK, the history of this nation in general and restore the sense of our strength. Things have been bad before and they got better, and this time is no exception. American politics is cyclic in nature and what goes around always comes around. We the people fell asleep and have paid the price for that, but now we are awakening.

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By cyrena, July 27, 2007 at 4:29 am Link to this comment

Comment#89875 by rage on 7/26 at 5:07 pm


Oh Rage, you put us “torture scholars” to shame with this post:).

Makes my plans for the shrub’s colonoscopy sound like a soothing mineral bath.

I love all the vivid details!!

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, July 27, 2007 at 4:01 am Link to this comment

Executive privilage isn’t outined anywhere in the US constitution or more importantly the Bill of Rights.

It has been used more by this admimistration as a “code (cone) of silence” than any other, exceeding the findings of the Supreme court under U.S. vs Nixon.

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By Outraged, July 27, 2007 at 3:19 am Link to this comment

What is with some of you?  You don’t win by whining and caving in to bad news. (and this is GOOD news!)  Have some balls will ya!  I’m not saying don’t be realistic, just see what is going right, support it and FIGHT!  Did you think if we knocked them around a bit they were going to lay down and die.  Look what they’ve already done, these are people of no conscience, THEY DON’T CURL UP AND DIE BECAUSE YOU “HURT THEIR FEELINGS OR REPUTATIONS”! THEY DECIDED UP FRONT TO KILL TENS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE FOR THEIR DOLLAR.  (Think insurance companies)

THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE DEALING WITH!

GET READY AND DIG IN, THIS IS NOT SOME PANSY-ASS PERSONALITY (EVEN IF THEY DO DRESS THAT WAY), THESE ARE PSYCHOTIC INDIVIDUALS.  THINK QUICK, THINK SMART AND SUPPORT THOSE WHO ARE DOING SOMETHING!

This is going to be a fight, realize that. 

In Alvin and Heidi Toffler’s book; War and Anti-War.  They talk about the progressive differences in warfare through the ages right up to what we now do.  Our current strategy of warfare they call, “the third wave”.  An excerpt:

“Starry’s emphasis on the concept of “deep battle,” or the “extended battlefield,” meant that combat would not simply take place at the “front” but deep in the enemy’s rear as well—-back where the follow-on echelons were to be found.  It was necessary to “interdict” the movement of men, supplies, and information so that the rear echelons would not be able to support invading troops.”

Also:

“I realized that we had to delay and disrupt, deep into the enemy’s battle area.  The orderly advance of their follow-on echelons would have to be stopped.  We wouldn’t have to destroy them.  It would be nice if we could.  But all we really had to do was prevent them from getting to the battle, so they couldn’t overwhelm the defenders.”

Stop those in your communities that support the neocons.  Turn this thing around.

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By Pacrat, July 27, 2007 at 2:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reign of Terror

Who’d have thunk that Rove,Cheney and Bush could have undermined the foundations of our country and its Constitution so easily? All it took for Rove was a power-hungry and naive president to lead around by the nose, and a power-drunk vice president to provide the clout - and, oh let’s not forget, a compliant republican congress to pull it off!

Will Bush intervene yet again and tell one of his chief mentors to ignore the subpoena? Of course! At this rate, the Supremes will have a year focusing mostly on trying to restore our Constitution. But, with compliant Supremes, is there any doubt about the outcome?

It is up to the people, ordinary folks unaffiliated with the White House, Congress, or the Supreme Court to bring Rove and his cronies to justice and to end this reign of terror!

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By Bukko in Australia, July 26, 2007 at 11:23 pm Link to this comment

So what happens if and when Congress issues an arrest warrant under its power of “inherent contempt” when Rove, Miers, Josh Bolten and/or someone else ignores a subpoena?

The Capitol Police have the authority to arrest the person, just as a regular beat cop would bring in a scofflaw who ignored a judge’s subpoena. The person who ignores Congress can be locked in a cell in the basement of the Capitol.

However, when Congress sends its men with guns to pick up a White House insider, will the Secret Service—the President’s men with guns—block them in a Mexican standoff? Will this be the event that rips away the pretence that America is a democracy any more, and shows President Cheney for the fascist dictator he truly is?

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By steve benjamins, July 26, 2007 at 8:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bushco’s criminals all seem to have a smirk of confidence under fire, that bespeaks of not having a worry in their minds; no jail time, plenty of funds to ride out the rest of their miserable lives, as if the promise to bring on the Armageddon and start the rapture has been promised.

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By DennisD, July 26, 2007 at 8:03 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Karl Rove probably has all the White House toilets clogged up with subpoenas by now. At least the plumbers will keep busy which is more than I can say for Congress. Every time I flush a toilet I think about my tax dollars being spent in D.C. - the District of Cheney. Just more hollow gestures by our hollow “representatives” and I mean that as facetiously as possible.

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By cann4ing, July 26, 2007 at 7:34 pm Link to this comment

August, voter caging is but one of the many “crimes” committed in the past by this administration.  I’d be more concerned about the one that is yet to come.  Paul Craig Roberts, who had served as an Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under President Reagan is fairly confident that there is something big coming—the use of a new “terrorist incident” as an excuse for the Bush/Cheney cabal to declare a “national emergency;” impose martial law.  That, of course, could entail shutting down Congress and cancelling elections.

http://www.vdare.com/roberts/070718wakeup.htm

They’re a step ahead of us.  It’s no longer simply the “caging” of minority voters we have to worry about.  The entire country may be “caged” as the cabal moves to the end stage of its counter-revolution.

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By August West, July 26, 2007 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment

The Senate Judiciary Committee needs to focus on the big crime that was only mentioned in passing in Monica Goodling’s testimony: voter caging.  The firings of the US Attorneys was part of an overall plan to take away votes from Democrats by targeting blacks and other minorities for challenges on their right to vote.  The whole program smells of Rove.  John Conyers asked Deputy AG Paul McNulty about briefing papers in McNulty’s possession including an article by Greg Palast regarding voter caging lists, which McNulty artfully dodged.  Voter caging is as political as it gets and there is no way that Rove wouldn’t have a hand in it.  Is it also possible that he kept his fingerprints off it?  We will see.

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By QuyTran, July 26, 2007 at 7:13 pm Link to this comment

How could GWB let his brain going out or his head ?
Stop dreaming please !

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By cann4ing, July 26, 2007 at 6:22 pm Link to this comment

So, Tyler & Scott, what do “We the People” do after the putch?  Any thoughts?

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By rage, July 26, 2007 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A subpoena is way, way, WAY more due process of law than this punk-rat deserves. Let’s roll some of that mercy back. No Subpeona for this fiend! Drop a net on him, club him hard and often, lace his fat rump up in a straightjacket, tie an opaque black bag over his bulbous noggin, and pitch his rotund butt into the cargo hull of a gray flight to a squalid, scary penal colony recognizable as neither Earthly nor humanly habitable. Think of the locale of the movie SAW. We’re extraordinarily rendering this fat lumox in a plausibly deniable Hostel-esque camp that makes Abu Graib seem like Dubai’s palacial Palm Island by comparison for no fewer than 50 years. Once the black bag is removed from his big, fat, knot-infested head, Karl Rove will be often rescucitated prior to being returned to a hellishly crippling stress position. Between rescusitations, however, Karl will undergo the diligent justice of regular whippings, severe beatings, electrocution by tazing and battery connection, starvation, thirst, sleep deprivation, relentless exposure to extreme tempertures and environmental conditions, hungry rodents attacks, pestilence, louse infestations, rabid prison dogs attacks, video tapings of being paraded through the officers’ mess naked and singing Onward Christian Soldiers, vicious sexual assaults by KBR and Blackwater contractors, hazing by Lynndie England-esque female personnel whose Marlboro ashes singe his little william while he’s walked naked on a dog leash while hatted up in his mom’s drawers and reading passages from the Bible, iced water-boardings, and having his teeth either drilled with a McCullough power drill or extracted with Craftsman pliers san anesthesia.

All the while, Rove will never be charged with a single crime, mercilessly taunted by his contracted captors and interogators with his innocense and ability to leave at any time. Here, Karl will be denied any semblance of legal council beyond being crammed into a 4 X 4 cell with Gonzo and Harriet Miers. With his repugnant cellmates, Karl will enjoy a lavish feast of shared feces washed down with the cell’s personal vintage of saved urine for four of their seven meals generously permitted weekly, the penal compensation for their labor on the current camp detail of converting Deibold Voting Machines into ultra efficient state-of-the-art water purification units to be sold at cost to needy foreign nations, and the thirsty parrishes of the Katrina ravished gulf coast. Each criminal stands to earn an addition 8oz glass of water per week for each pallet of low cost toilet paper processed from the metric tons of recycled Florida and Ohio chadded voting forms and national caging lists recovered during many investigations. The 5% of Dollar General profits from the sales these products not donated to the Katrina victims will be set aside in an escrow account to offset the punitive damages to be paid in maximum US Department of Justice fines for flagrant obstruction of justice.

Let’s show some All American gumption here! It’s Karl Christian Rove!!! Let’s get some pay-back! Hastily rendering him is not only the American way, but the Divine Will of GOD in righteous accordance with all ancient prophesies prescribed for our deliverance from this sniveling weasel!

My Fellow Americans, gather ‘round with your pitchforks! Lift your torches high in the night! Let’s see if we can’t silence that smug, glib Rovian chuckle. Let’s do the Lord’s WORK! Render this BEASTLY MONSTER! Render Rove!

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By K-man, July 26, 2007 at 6:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

He is the Kings right hand. The Queen isn’t gonna like it if she has to take that job back again.

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By farmertx, July 26, 2007 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment

Another empty,useless gesture when they should be considering impeachment and impeachment alone.

Every thinking adult knows that this was politically motivated. And every thinking adult knows that IF any one testifies, they won’t remember, or their recollection is different.

I hope all of us are sending emails every time Congress goes off in any direction save impeachment, demanding that they start representing the people.

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By Scott, July 26, 2007 at 4:46 pm Link to this comment

I think Ernest is entirely correct and I don’t think anyone is going to do a damned thing about it.

There’s nothing anyone can do, apparently.

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By tyler, July 26, 2007 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I agree with ernest.

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By Margaret Currey, July 26, 2007 at 4:18 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Of course Gonzales was lying every time he opened his mouth, but he has to protect the President or Vice President or both.

The people are watching this congress, if they cave in and Executive Privilege wins than this country is going down toward a dictatorship and then the military will take over especially if we are in a constant war mode.

Of course the hawks say give us time, well the war was pushed and the president who knows not a thing about History did all the wrong things against a muslim nation, first he used a word called crusade which is a word that the history of the muslim people is like dirt in the mouth.

Europe engaged in the Crusades to kill Jews but in reality they killed more muslims.

So the people did not forget, but Bush forgot his history if he ever took a history course.

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By cann4ing, July 26, 2007 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment

He won’t obey the subpoena.  Congress will delay until after the August recess to seek a court order holding him in contempt of Congress.  The U.S.S. Unitary Executive will chain the entire Justice Department to the mast of its foundering ship of state while it awaits the next pre-planned “terrorist incident.”  Bush will declare a national emergency, shut down Congress and suspend all future elections indefinitely.

Farewell the Republic.  It was nice to have known ya.

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By myiq2xu, July 26, 2007 at 3:56 pm Link to this comment

It’s about time someone made Turdblossom talk on the record.

Will he remember anything?  Or was his memeory “wiped?”

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By Goffredo, July 26, 2007 at 3:38 pm Link to this comment

If anybody goes to jail, you know it’s going to be minorities (Gonzalez) and women (Miers).  That’s how all scary movies end anyway.  The white males always survive.

That is why no one buys this.  We all know the truth will never come out.  Why waste time?

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By ardee, July 26, 2007 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

Those who believe that “Turd Blossom” will give any more revealing testimony than Gonzalez has are seriously naieve.

This mess will only start to unravel when someone like Meiers is locked up for contempt of Congress, or put on trial for perjury and cracks wide open. Just like the Watergate hearings in which noone gave the thing any credibility until suddenly there was John Dean naming names, dates and places. After that it unraveled like a cheap suit.

I have said, over and again, I will not vote for any Democratic candidate, well maybe Kucinich if he wins the primary..yeah right. But I amend that statement to note that any Presidential candidate that promises to continue this investigation after Bush and Cheney leave office will get my vote!

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By GW=MCHammered, July 26, 2007 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

No Federal Tax payments the rest of the year. We’ll call it, “The Great Trickle Down Unaccountability of ‘07.” Public servants, My Butt! Like an abusive spouse, we’re better off without them.

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By Scott, July 26, 2007 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment

Rove’s subpoena better come with an authorization to use waterboarding during the questioning otherwise it will likely be quite useless.

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