RE: I agree that Tarply’s past association with LaRouche makes anything “he” personally has to say suspect.  Ignore rense, ignore Tarply, but do not blithely dismiss Mr. Roberts or Zbigniew Brzezinsky.

=========

Simply put: I don’t agree — Tarpley’s 911 analysis is compelling - these are long but wll worth it:

A/V
http://www.911busters.com/New_911_Evidence/WMV/Webster_Tarpley_NYC.wmv

audio only
http://www.911busters.com/New_911_Evidence/MP3/Webster_Tarpley_NYC.html

ardee, blog dog provided a note of caution when initially posting a rense article.  What I think you miss is that the article quotes Paul Craig Roberts.  From other published works by Mr. Roberts, I know for a fact that the quote is an accurate one. 

I agree that Tarply’s past association with LaRouche makes anything “he” personally has to say suspect.  Ignore rense, ignore Tarply, but do not blithely dismiss Mr. Roberts or Zbigniew Brzezinsky. 

Why post a link to a rense article?  Because the article contains very credible sources who have nothing to do with Rense and Tarply.  Because what Mr. Roberts has to say, in particular, is profoundly consistent with everything we know about the Cheney/Addington/Rove cabal.

blog dog

Opinions of LaRouche and his movements vary from nut job to anti semite.:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_LaRouche

There are sharply contrasting views of LaRouche. His supporters regard him as a brilliant and original thinker, whereas his critics see him as a conspiracy theorist, and anti-Semite.[1] The Heritage Foundation has said that he “leads what may well be one of the strangest political groups in American history.”[2][3] In 1984, LaRouche’s research staff was described by Norman Bailey, a former senior staffer of the National Security Council, as “one of the best private intelligence services in the world.”[3]
LaRouche was sentenced to fifteen years imprisonment in 1988 for conspiracy to commit mail fraud and tax code violations, but continued his political activities from behind bars until his release in 1994 on parole. His attorney, Ramsey Clark, a former U.S. Attorney General, argued that the case represented an unprecedented abuse of power by the U.S. government in an effort to destroy the LaRouche organizations.[4] LaRouche and his defenders claim the prosecution was a politically motivated conspiracy involving government officials, numerous others, and a mass media brainwashing campaign.[5

.....
Some, perhaps you are one, believe LaRouche to be relevent and an ally, I certainly do not. One should choose ones allies with great care. Just because someone agrees with an opinion you hold is no reason to consider that person as factual on every level…..

#90238 by Ernest Canning on 7/27 at 6:55 pm
(744 comments total)

ardee, I don’t really care what Rense and Tarpley have to say,
...
Then why, the question begs, do you use the links if you care not what these people say? Ernest, you have proven to be a very intelligent poster, quite a bit smarter than I, I fear. I trust you have not decided to take the sloppy way because it burns fewer brain cells?

RE:#90183 by ardee on 7/27 at 3:08 pm — “...Tarpely and his co author as well, Chaitkin, are both LaRouche followers…”

====== Yes, Webster G. Tarpley was a researcher for Lyndon LaRouche and so was Chaitkin, with whom he did co-authror “The Unauthorized Biography of George Bush” (GHWB) 1992 http://www.tarpley.net/bushb.htm. This is the first published source I know of wherein it is exposed that Prescott Bush  was one of seven directors of Union Banking Corp.,  a New York investment bank owned by a bank controlled by the Thyssen family — 11 years before the Fox News article cited here - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,100474,00.html

LaRouche is himself an insightful historian and economist. In my opinion he has weakend his position by creating a cult of personality around himself, with his schools and so forth, Now having said that, one should not dismiss out of hand the programs in those schools, where it’s reported that the classical foundation of the educational offering is head and shoulders above what most public schools in the US offer.  I don’t think anyone is as hard on the Jesuits, though they could as easily be described as a personality cult.

One more thing about the grilling (too little too late) of Prescott Bush —  early 30’s planned White House coup —  http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/document/document_20070723.shtml

ardee, I don’t really care what Rense and Tarpley have to say, but I consider people like Paul Craig Roberts, a Republican and a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury under Reagan, a man with whom I have personally corresponded, exceedingly knowledgeable and credible.  Roberts has little doubt but that something serious is in the works.  The only area in which he and I diverge is that Roberts, who joins with many in calling for a more complete investigation of 9/11, takes the position that Bush/Cheney/Rove can read a poll and know that they are about to take their party down to its most crushing defeat since 1932 and that this explains why they are looking for an excuse (terrorist incident) to (a) blame on Iran, (b) launch another war, and (c) seize power.

My take is a little different.  I believe that Cheney is a revolutionary in the same way that Henry Kissinger described revolutionaries in his 1957 doctoral thesis, “A World Restored.”

“Lulled by a period of stability…, they find it nearly impossible to take at face value the assertion of a revolutionary power that it means to smash the existing framework.  The defenders of the status quo therefore tend to begin by treating the revolutionary power as if its protestations were merely tactical; as if it really accepted the existing legitimacy but overstated its case for bargaining purposes; as if it were motivated by specific grievances to be assuaged by limited concessions.  Those who warn against the danger in time are considered alarmists; those who counsel adaptation to circumstance are considered balanced and sane….But it is the essence of a revolutionary power that it possesses the courage of its convictions, that it is willing, indeed eager, to push its principles to their ultimate conclusion.”

In “The Great Unraveling” Paul Krugman observed that “this passage sent chills down my spine, because it explains so well the otherwise baffling process by which the administration has been able to push radical policies through with remarkably little scrutiny or effective opposition.”

Krugman’s basic thesis, written some four years ago, was that America’s hard-right, embodied in the Bush/Cheney regime, “doesn’t accept the legitimacy of the existing system” and “doesn’t accept the right of others to criticize its actions.  Anyone who raises questions can expect a no-holds-barred counterattack.”

Both Mr. Roberts and I see Cheney as utterly ruthless, but where Roberts thinks the cabal is focused on not taking the Republican Party down in the next election, my own take is that Cheney is about power, pure, absolute and unending power; that he possesses the courage of his convictions and is eager to see it to its ultimate conclusion—a totalitarian America. 

Cheney could care less about the Party, except to the extent that it serves to bolster his power.  Moreover, it isn’t just an election they fear.  If they were replaced, all of their dirty secrets could be exposed.  The Military Commissions Act could be repealed, and they could face prosecutions under the War Crimes Act that carry the death penalty—and all this assumes that Cheney was “not” complicit in 9/11.  I think he was.

So someone like Paul Craig Roberts, who calls for immediate impeachment in order to save the Republic is seen as the “alarmist;”  Pelosi, who thinks impeachment is a waste of time, is seen as rational.  Joseph Goebbels was a bit more harsh in referencing so-called rational accommodation.  He called it the “stupidity of democracy,” observing:  “It will always remain one of democracy’s best jokes that it provided its deadly enemies with the means by which it was destroyed.”

#90053 by Ernest Canning on 7/27 at 8:34 am

Ernest, Is this something you stumbled across and accepted without checking Tarpely’s bona fides?

Rense does caution you to take all with a grain of salt as they refuse to edit or disallow much of anything there, to their credit of course.

I mentioned, in another thread in which you used this link, that this author and his co author as well, Chaitkin, are both LaRouche followers…..Not exactly the base for a sound argument…....( if you are a follower as well, sorry no insult intended, but shheeesh).

I would encourage all Truthdiggers to read Webster G. Tarpley’s “Cheney Determined to Strike in U.S. with WMD This Summer:  Only Impeachment, Removal or General Strike Can Stop Him.”

http:www.rense.com/general77/chens.htm

If the analysis of Paul Craig Roberts, a former Assistant Secretary of the Treasury in the Reagan Administration, Zbigniew Brzezinsky, Secretary of State in the Carter Administration, and Pat Buchanan are correct, it won’t matter if Bush’s approval rating falls below ten percent—Cheney has no intention on leaving office or permitting us the luxury of another election.  Poll numbers wouldn’t mean squat in a totalitarian America.

ocjim

Yes, of course Der Karl is right. That is the problem.
The facts are, they (Shrub and cohorts) want to use such an incident for pure political reasons. Kind of a poor reason, far as I can see.

RE: #89222 by ardee on 7/24 at 4:44 pm — ...75% of the American people should be commended for wading through the crap to find the truth.

======= in all seriousness, they’ve found just enough to really piss them off — if they knew the truth they’d be calling for his head.

If you really want to bring this regime down, demand 911 Truth. And, if you’re getting tired of hearing this, ask anyone why they think Cheney/Bush Co. never speak in public without mentioning “The Lessons of 9/11?” Moeover, ask them this: “Since they’ve lied about everything, why not 9/11?”

Think about why Zbigniew Brzezinski warned of another “Gulf of Tonkin” to launch on Iran, back in January, and why Craig Paul Roberts (assistant Secretary of the Treasury to Ronald Reagan) is warning of it now, not only to launch on Iran but to declare marshal law here; why Michael Chertoff is talking about his “...gut telling him…” something big and bad is coming this summer; why Rick Santorum is saying the same thing.

If there’s another 9/11, don’t even think about the legendary Cave, Bin Laden, The Laptop…Al Queda plotting from the myth-drenched hills of Pushtunistan — look to Cheney and Cheney’s handlers.

Considering that the news media, all of it, is incredibly slanted to the right one is astonished that the numbers arent actually higher.

Most Americans dont blog, most get their news, in passing, from headline scanning or twenty second sound bites and are more concerned with things like soccer practice schedules, mortgage payments, paying for braces etc. With Rupert Murdoch, Richard Mellon Scaife and Sun Myong Moon pouring billions into the purchase of our radio, newspapers and TV in order to promote an agenda I believe that 75% of the American people should be commended for wading through the crap to find the truth.

ocjim
Sadly, such tactic’s have proven effective. Hopefully, enough folks have come understand what happens when one only listens to sound bites; we get a Shrub, instead of a President worthy of the title and respect that should be due the man/office.

Loveinatub

I regret that I was one who kinda agreed with Pelosi. Shrub will stonewall, get the Brown One to rule in his favor and like as not have the Supremes go along with that.
But his emergency powers act settled that question. He has something planned and the Shootist always has some evil scheme in that warped mind of his, and we cannot wait any longer.
Weekly,I am writing the congress critter’s that “represent” me, although I have no $25,000 check to assure representation enclosed, urging them to stand up for what is right for America and damn the politics. I hope everybody else who is posting has done the same.

In a fascinating article interview with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, reporters Mike Stark and Dave Johnson get Pelosi to admit that she had decided “at least a year ago,” before Democrats had even taken control of the House and Senate, “that impeachment was something that we could not be successful with, and that would take up the time we needed to do some positive things to establish a record of our priorities and [Republican] short-comings.”

She then goes on to say, “The President isn’t worth it…he’s not worth impeaching. We’ve got important work to do.”

Stark then says, “Respectfully, the question is whether or not the Constitution is worth it,” to which Pelosi responds, “Well, yeah, the constitution is worth it if you can succeed.”

That the leading Democrat in the House, and one of the most powerful people in the Democratic Party leadership, could be so dismissive of the Constitution, so seemingly ignorant of the workings of the impeachment clause, and so openly pessimistic and negative about the power of her opposition party, is simply astonishing.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/04/2289/

The bottom line is that BushCo never considers the wishes of the people anyway. Karl Rove,I am sure,  convinces Bush that voters are so inattentive, self-centered and fickle that a terrorist bomb here or there will change that approval percentage overnight.

It’s hard to believe that there are 25% of the American people who have benefited from the transfer-of-wealth policies of this administration OR are members of the Bush/Cheney families.
It’s hard to believe that there are 25% of the American people who are not heart sick over the erosion of our Constitution, 25% who do not fear for the future of our country.
It’s hard to believe that there are 25% of the American people who care nothing for the planet. 25% who value short-term greed over long-term destruction. 
It is time to impeach. Not for retribution but in order to right the ship of state. To set a Constitutional course for ANY future president, of any party.
If we do not check this administration’s disregard for our laws, we can only expect even worse from ANY future administration.
It is TIME TO IMPEACH.

These polls are reported as a collapse of ‘Very’ and ‘Somewhat’ in both approve and disapprove categories. I think this insulates the administration from the numbers. See:

http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/politics/ssi/polls/postpoll_072307.html

How can this be? How can anyone not love the man who gave us a war based on lies and an increasing debt? He’s only doing these things for your sake. Relax and let the man do his job. He will decide what’s best for you. God has spoken to him.

#89039 by Goffredo on 7/23 at 10:24 pm — At some point, finding someone who supports Bush will be as rare as seeing Dick Cheney smile.

==== I’d like to share in the humor, but the tunnel seems so dark - with everyone from Chertoff to Santorum talking about new terror on the horizon http://www.counterpunch.org/roberts07162007.html we’re getting pretty nervous here in the Pacific Northwest with NOBLE RESOLVE http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2007/07/362001.shtml scheduled for August. 

NOBLE RESOLVE is a drill to test the readiness of first responders, like the 7/7 drill in a London Tube station that was running exactly where and when the bombs went off. And, we mustn’t forget the terror drill on 9/11 that simulated hijacking and crashing a plan into a building — what a coincidence.

This one may be simulating a dirty bomb event, or something similar. We’re trying to get it shut down. Wish us luck. And, watch out for these things in your back yard.

The 25% must be those living in Appalachia.
Wait! Maybe they’re counting the Haliburton employees in Iraq, too.

To be honest, I didn’t think it was even that high.

At some point, finding someone who supports Bush will be as rare as seeing Dick Cheney smile.

Comment#88985 by Non Credo on 7/23 at 7:00 pm

Non Credo:

This is HILARIOUS!! (sounds like something my dad would come up with…he’s very entertaining:))

....“Within a year, at this rate, people who approve of Bush will be harder to find than left-handed lesbian albino Sanskrit scholars.”...

Too funny. Already true.

#89016 by Outraged on 7/23 at 8:40 pm

....” Now we need to either find a way to get facts into bimbos or pay off sleazy jerks (it’d be money well spent.)

Any ideas???”....

Outraged, You’re on to something. I’m thinking….
Give me some time…I think slower these days.

The 25% approval rating probably reflects Americans too afraid to speak out honestly and say what a failure this man is. After all, this whole War on Terror is about inflicting fear here at home and abroad. This poll indicates to me Nobody other than his criminal cohorts approves of the Bushwacker. Curious George it’s time to go home to mommy, daddy and the memory of your grandpappy Prescott. Then maybe we can put an end to this horrible chapter in history.

my solution to everything; thermonuclear holocaust,planet wide. it would be glorious

Imagine, if you will. 9/11 we’re attacked again. This time, maybe LA or Chicago, Houston, Seattle, Miami.

Is it that hard to imagine? Baltimore, Denver, San Antonio or Phoenix?

We’ve been being played since 2000. Wake the fck up.

Well, this is just a thought.  I’ve heard with my own ears this comment: “I just vote whatever my husband tells me.  I don’t watch that stuff.  I just vote whatever he says.”  My calculation of that would be 12.5% of sleazy husbands in this country are married to 12.5% of the bimbo women in this country.  That will give us our 25%.  So my estimation is the number of ACTUAL supporters is much lower.  Now we need to either find a way to get facts into bimbos or pay off sleazy jerks (it’d be money well spent.).

Any ideas???

I cannot, for the life of me, understand why/how in the f*ck it’s still this high??!!

What does he have to do? Chew a baby’s head off on live TV for these kool-aid drinking morons to see the light?? They’d probably rationalize it by saying it was a democrat baby.

I emailed Russ Feingold last night and blasted him for not going for impeaching these criminals and only going for a censure. He actually said that he thinks they’ve committed impeachable offenses, but doesn’t want to tie up the Congress with impeachment hearings. I strongly reminded him that impeachment *IS* the business of the Congress! It isn’t an option.

This country is truly screwed.

On a different note, check out this little nugget I came across…truly mind boggling. http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,2132099,00.html

Google videos: 9/11 Press for Truth, Loose Change 2nd Edition, America: Freedom to Fascism

#88957 by ardee on 7/23 at 5:48 pm
(329 comments total)

OK we gotta find these last 20 odd percent and cure them of their affliction, we owe it to the nation to do so.

============ the one sure way to break down this support is to explode the 911 myth and expose the treason at the heart of it of the 9/11 coup - nevertheless, impeachment must be done in Washington.

In DC the 911 coup is an open secret and the scramble is on to undo the coup without blowing the cover up, triggering the biggest constitutional crisis since the Civil War and precipitate a global financial meltdown.

Cheney, Bush and their entire cabinet must be removed followed by a return of all foreign-based US troops, full disclosure of all black-ops/psy-ops since WWII and full investigations of all criminal linkage therein.

Unless Cheney/Bush are removed, expect another 9/11 soon — Cheney Determined To Strike In US With WMD This Summer

http://www.rense.com/general77/chens.htm

desertdude: You are in the twighlight zone. Unfortunately the episode is titled “Early 21st century US”.

  vet240: I thought we were stuck at 30%, which had seemed to hold for so long. Apparently the failures are slowly penetrating even these hard heads. It may be that it was his support for immigration reform (one of the few things I think Bush had about right), the wing-nuts are really big about that
“What Part of Illegal Don’t you Understand” stuff. So much of the recent erosion (as well as Mc Cain’s terminal death-spiral) are likely due to immigration, and not to the infamous Iraq Denial Bubble.

I think the 23 percent figure will remain constant.

It reflects the major tax cuts big business and the wealthy got a few years back, plus the EEEvangelicals who as many of you know support CREEEationism as laid down in the Christian Bible by God himself.

Man didn’t make the Bible up. Man simply wrote what God dictated. Iv’e always wondered why God revealed his sexual identity to a man instead of a woman.

How this Coward reject could have won an election to
the Presidency is still an unsolved mystery. It must have happened in the Twilight Zone. Please someone wake me up!

Isn’t that 25% approval rating just about the same as the percentage of breathing American adults who claim to KNOW that God exists?

Now wouldn’t it be a coincidence if they were one and the same group?

I think you’re right Adee.

As for the population polled, (rather than Congress) I think this remaining 25% are probably among a margin of error that can’t really be accounted for in these sorts of polls.

Some are just intellectually challanged, and there’s no way to account for that, in these kinds of polls.

So, we have to interpret the results from that.

The scariest part, is that they DO VOTE!!

20% of that total has to be Halliburton exec’s along with Exxon Mobil exec’s.
It’s the 5% of the regular people that still have no clue.
I spoke with one Republican apologist…er supporter and he said that it had been proven true that the Treasury is taking in more money now, because of Shrubs’ tax cuts.
Oh, well that explains why funding is being cut left and right and why the Treasury is borrowing money weekly.
How can you deal with such blatant ignorance?
God could come down, perform 5 miracles in front of this guy and then tell him, You’re wrong about the Shrub. And this guy would claim that the Democrat’s had gotten to him, too.

25% ? Still too high ! It must be Minus 0% !

OK we gotta find these last 20 odd percent and cure them of their affliction, we owe it to the nation to do so.

If they polled the Senate the ratings would be higher because certainly a number of seated Democrats still love the guy…..or at least their deafening silences indicate they do.