I see Hardnose doesn’t have anything to say.
His silence speaks volumes.

To Archeon of Thrace:

Thank you for your quick response. 

To Hardnose:

Do you agree or disagree?  If you disagree, please give us your position.

Thanks, Simpleman

If I had been president the USA would not now be egaged in an illegal aggressive war in a country that was no danger to us.

If I was president and inherited the war, then there are only two ways to proceed:

1 - more troops and actually occupying the whole country, keeping territory, holding towns, and denying the “enemy” the “battlefield”.  This would be a many many year, long term commitment.  Rebuilding schools, hospitals, state infrastructure - sewer, water, electrical networks.  Give Iraq exactly the same constitution and form of government the USA has.  Train police, laywers, judges, politicians.  Weed out the corrupt, the liars, the cheats, from these.

2 - leave, and leave NOW.  It is obvious we are not wanted there.  The majority of the population see us a invaders, occupiers, and enlavers.  We torture prisoners, and kill innocent civilians and children.  We don’t have to worry about the country falling into civil war, it already is.  A “strong man” will rise to control the whole country, except Kurdistan, which will probably become an independant nation.

Option 2, is of course impossible - we are only stuck with option 1.

I would seek the impeachment and persuit of GWB and his gang for criminal and illegal waging of war, crimes against humanity, and war crimes.

Hi!

I am new to this site, but I have read the comments from beginning to end.  One question put to Hardnose caught my attention and I would like to pose that question with a follow-up to both Hardnose and Archeon of Thrace.  Please guys, put your best foot forward with your answers.

If you were President, what would you do about the situation in Iraq?
What do you think would be the consequences of your decision?

Thanks, Simpleman

Bukko, I missed that, but you got it perfectly!  I would bet that Hardnose, doesn’t understand why blacks would find the confederate flag offensive.

Confederate States of America = an illegal insurgency - LOL, I almost couldnt’ stop laughing!

Look back a few posts where Hardnose claims the liberated slaves stayed on thier former owners plantations because living conditions were good, and they old abusers paid a fair wage!  What a joke.  He seems there to equate my opposition to “slavery” and disgust that one man could “own” another in the same way he might a cow, or house, with “taking” the side of those dam niggers, which makes me a wigger.

Ya, Annie can dish it out good!  See what we needed was a Mama to spank brat Hardnosed’s ass!

Archy, you got “Hardnose’s” country of allegiance wrong. He’s for the Confederate States of America, not the United ones. You remember those Confederates—the ones who launched an illegal insurgency to support their fanatical vision of how society should be run, and killed hundreds of thousands of U.S. troops. Kind of like al Qaeda in Iraq, wouldn’t you say?

Annie continues to tap the keg of whoop-ass…

Love the “amirca”...

As I have said all along, the right simply cannot debate the Iraq question without slinging insults or posing extreme options:  blow up the Middle East or Osama is going to smoke opium in the Oval Office.

#89861 by hardnose on 7/26 at 4:41 pm
(50 comments total)

“I owe you and all those like you NOTHING.  YOU are the ones who OWE.”

It appears that YOU are the subject of this statement, hardnose. And you posted it.  Hold the napalm…we don’t OWE you or anyone else from Vietnam anything.

And the tough talk is just stupid.  Try and make an argument that actually works.  The ad hominems make you appear to be mentally retarded and I am pretty sure they don’t take the mentally challenged in the armed forces.  If I am a scum sucking whatever you said, then provide proof or at least evidence. 

The fact is, that like personal assault attacks on people, your argument about Vietnam and good old “Amirca” are both about as equal in intelligence.  Neither bear any actual facts, they’re just words thrown around by a little boy who’s throwing a temper tantrum.

How the hell did our oil get under their sand?

what the fuck is a Wigger?  is that supposed to be “white nigger”?  Man the conservative right wing facist nuts always fail to see the internal hypocracy of their way of thinking.

I don’t understand why when I stand in opposition to the oppression of minorities that that should be seen as a bad thing.  I know that for some white superemists, a white person like myself, who fails to uphold the long standing traditions concerning race mixing and racial tolerance and respect for human rights as treason against my people.

Hardnose, by calling me a Wigger which if I understand it caries all the derogatory and hateful connetations of Nigger, identifies himself as a race hate peddlar.  I must congratulate him for doing it so clearly that all may dismiss him as an ignorant fool.

This is how I see Hardnose - a white male, about 40 to 45, beer gut, tee-shirt wearing, loser - sitting infront of the TV watching Nascar, or some sport (though he himself is prob. so out of shape going to the fridge for more cheap beer is “exercise”).  Who blames everyone else, especially those “colored” people who became “uppity”, and by demanding thier rights and priveledges, ensured his utter failure as a man.  He sees himself as hard done by, and the blacks as getting more than they deserve, and wishes they “knew” their place.

Hardnose you are an abject human failure, and a truly vile human being. You are a coward.

Although Hardnose claims not to support Bush and Company, his retoric, his propaganda, meshes perfectly with theirs.  For him it is a our way or no way world, where the American way is the god decreed, god blessed, way.  Hardnose advocates the violation of civil rights of civilians, of Americans - acts that would be in complete opposition to the nation the founders forsaw in the framing of the constitution, and in the declaration of independance, in the bill of rights, and all the other constitutional amendments.  This fact alone, his racist bigoted phylosophy aside, shows him like Bush etal to be an anti-patriot, a traitor to the ideals of Americanism - Democracy, Liberty, Justice, and the pursuit of Happiness.  He shows like Bush and Company a contempt for intellectualism, education, and knowledge - the founders however valued these especially when coupled with self reliance, personal conviction, and moral courage.  For the founders, courage and morality, was more than sheepishly following the herd, and blindly accepting the will of the mob!  In fact the founders feared the mob, and the American system of government is specifically set up to resist the whims of the mob.

Hardnose exemplifies the great unwashed masses, who believing they know more than they know, who have a messianic fetish with “common scence” and idealize the “common man”.  They fail to see that these are not concepts of “the lowest common denominator” but simply not “aristocratic”, that is what makes them “common”.  They are NOT the ideals, idiom, and ethos of the mob.

The USA attacked Iraq, and as a result the lives of average Iraqis has deteriorated to the point where, it can be logically stated it would have been better for the overwhelming vast majority of them if Sadam where still in power.  Even Americans sleeping at home in NYC, Chicago, Seatle, everywhere would be able to sleep better with Sadam still in power than they can now. Now that we have created 35 million rabid american haters.

Annie, I’ve never stated that ANYONE owed me one goddamn thing.  I don’t know how old you are nor do I give a rats ass, but someday you’ll remember you little girl remarks and you’ll realize I was correct.  So you just go right on prostituting yourself to all the bleeding hearts and the intellects and the book worms and the gutless cowards.  In the long run ONLY THE STRONG WILL SURVIVE AND PEACENIK SCUM LIKE YOU BE BEGGING FOR HELP.  No reply is needed as I can no longer tolerate all the cry babies on this pinko site.

#89526 by hardnose on 7/25 at 4:17 pm
(48 comments total)

Wow! For someone who supports the troops who according to the media, support democracy and the first amendment right to freedom of speech, you sure do hate everyone who speaks freely in opposition of you. 

And all that tough guy stuff…that’s seriously foolish.  Are you aware that you are in cyberspace, or do you think you’re still in Vietnam? 

Your good ol’ boy patriot act is bullshit.  You never fought for me and my family…you never did a goddamn thing in that “war”.  And nobody, but NOBODY owes you nothing!  You were a foolish pawn…that is all.  And people died because of it.

The draft? Hell yes, but ONLY if they will draft your yellow ass.

To bad yo mama was a drug whore when you were born,  that, in some ways, explains you total lack of everything.  By the way, your had needs a haircut!

“You seem to always be taking up for the blacks, yet you say you aren’t one of them, so be it, but down here we call your kind a “WIGGER.!”

Up here we have a word for people like you Hardnose - IDIOT!

Well I guess we now know exactly what kind of person Hardnose is.

I still don’t believe you were in Vietnam.  I bet the only aircraft your father flew were paper airplanes? LOL!

Still afraid to speak to the issues - well I didn’t really expect anything else.

I just love the way Hardnose denigrates everyone who disagrees with him - even fellow veterans of the war he wants to justify on the grounds “they were trying to kill him”.  If he hadn’t gone “they” wouldn’t have been trying to kill him.  But I suppose because there are no ideological reasons that the Vietnam war could be justified by (and neither can the Iraq war) a hollow personal justification is all that is left.  I still don’t believer you Hardnose everpointed a gun at anyone in war.

I do find it interesting that just like Woodstock, Vietnam has many more veterans than were actually there.

Relax oldman before you blow a heart valve.

So we should stay in Iraq because of Al-quaida, but Al-quaida is only in Iraq because we are there.  OR we should stay in Iraq because other wise there would be chaos and civil war, however Iraq is in chaos and civil war. ect ect ect ect….

Hardnose would you encourage your kids to enlist to fight in Iraq?  Should the US restart the draft?

Skruff & Goffredo, without either of you EVER being in Vietnam, just where do you come off with your bullshit comments on what and how VN vets think and feel.  NO! I feel no remorse on my actions in Nam, they were trying to kill me, I was protecting myself as well as the others on my team, and they did the same for me.  You believe all that BS because you WANT to believe it, and most of it came from grunts who probably pissed in their pants the first fire fight they were in or WERE NEVER IN A FIRE FIGHT BUT WANT TO MAKE LIKE “BIG MAN ON CAMPUS.”  With people like you as the future of the U.S.A., the U.S.A. will lose any and all battles, wars, conflicts, police actions.  Yeah! go ahead and tuck your tails between your legs and pray you don’t get shot in the ass.  You are all losers, you talk big, but talk is cheap just like your so called “intellectual ideas.”  I would call you “yellow dogs,” but that would be an insult to the dogs.  I am proud to be a warrior and not a coward.  I owe you and all those like you NOTHING.  YOU are the ones who OWE.

PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE ARCHENOTHING, COME TO TEXAS.  WHEN YOU BRING MY FATHER(WWII NAVY PILOT)INTO THIS WELL, YOU CAN, I PROMISE, GIVE YOUR SOUL TO GOD BECAUSE THAT WILL BE ALL THAT IS LEFT!

You seem to always be taking up for the blacks, yet you say you aren’t one of them, so be it, but down here we call your kind a “WIGGER.!

By the way, didn’t someone ask if you were scraped off the wall of sex video store, or was it the best part of you ran down yo pappy’s leg.

Let me know when you’re going to be here!!!!

What does “always faithful to brothers in arms” mean?  What if your “brothers in arms” are engaged in war crimes? or crimes against humanity? or genocide?

What happens if you alone among your “brothers” see the lies your leaders are using to send you to battle for?  Should you blindly go? or attempt by your example to convince them not to go?

There is no honour or dignity to be gained by suspending critical thinking and healthy sceptisism to blindly and ignorantly follow.

Someone please answer the NVA soldiers fighting in Vietnam were different from the American Marines HOW?  The americans were from across the sea supporting a represive anti-democratic puppet government, While the NV soldiers were Vietnamese fighting in Vietnam in a revolutionary war supported by the regular Vietnamese citizen.  The Vietnamese/Vietcong could not have had the successes they did without the support of the local populations.

German soldiers fighting in WWII were different from Allied soldiers HOW?  Both were conscripted and sent to fight for honour, glory, and dignity.  Warriors on both sides believed they were fighting for the survival of their people and nations.  Both sides had warrior mythologies that equated pacifism with cowardice and defeatism.

And again how are the various sides in Iraq different?  Do not forget that the USA invaded Iraq, and Iraq had done nothing at all to the USA.  Do not forget that the overwhelming majority of the the Sept 11 terrorists were Saudi, and that Al-quida was Saudi financed, that Bin-Laden is a Saudi.  Do not forget that Saudi Arabia is a depotic absolute monarchy, with absolutely no democracy, an unfair judicary, torture in prisons, public beheadings and delimbings, that we support.

#

#88485 by Skruff on 7/21 at 8:16 am
(Unregistered commenter)

Name calling, hate -filled lingo, and personal insults will not “convince” or alter opinions. Reason and debate are good, and eventually we can rub the rough places a bit smoother.

I can not point to one poster on this board from whom I have not learned something, and while I disagree with “rock-rib, Love-it-or-leave” patriotism, and Junior-Highesque” name-calling and labeling, there is still enough “education” here to stay for awhile.

Guess what I’m saying is I’d have a bit more respect for people’s individual arguments if you’d ratchet up the civility.

Just a suggestion…. I won’t hold my breath.

” I was no fan of the Vietnam War, nor the foregin policy based on a President’s lie but I lost a bunch of friends over there, and they were boys, just like me, who didn’t like the job, but did it anyway. They would rather be here in the States, dating US girls, racing cars, going to baseball games, or just goofing off, but they went when called, and NOBODY BUT NOBODY will go unchallenged if they shit on these troops in my presence.

I’m begining to believe you are not what you claim.  No soldier who I know would ever disrespect another soldier by saying “they are of low caliber” or “they are in it for the money.” They would know better. “

#

#88900 by Skruff on 7/23 at 1:51 pm
(Unregistered commenter)

88874 by hardnose on 7/23 at 12:12 pm

No one except John Wayne (who never served anywhere) talks like you.

Everyone on this web site needs to know you do not represent the typical Vietnam Veteran UNLESS perhaps you were fighting for the north?

I’ve attempted to engage in dialogue on the subject of Corps honor, and you attack my mother?

Sometime when you get the chance, re read my posts to you.  Did I (or she)really deserve that attack?  Do educated soldiers now feel it’s OK to besmerch the reputation of women they never met? Who else on this board has been as civil to you?

You obviously are not a Marine, but you should learn the concept of Semper fidelis ALWAYS faithful to brothers in arms, the Corps and the Country This applies even after leaving the service.

I’m done here, this “dust up” is over.

I COULDN’T AGREE MORE SKRUFF!  WELL-SAID!

You’re so right, Farmer. I do things to goad people like this “Hardnose” character. I enjoy getting them to rage and froth at the mouth. Too easy, though—it’s like picking on the geek at the bus stop. I’m nicer to the mentally deficient people in my care. Anyone who’s functional enough to type on a computer, though, they’re fair game!

Bukko
Think you nailed it kinda.
I showed these posts to a bro who was in ‘Nam, 1st Baker, 2nd of the 7th Air Calvary, and he said it put him in mind of a REMF Supply Sgt he knew who was always trying to impress the dollies with how macho he was. Notice how he narrowed his location down to N Texas and Okla?
Rather than respond directly to him and feed his shrunken ego, just talk over him and he will get tired of being ignored and seek another forum.
Would have thought that someone would have reported him for some of his more vulgar comments, but that is freedom of speech at work, I guess.

I bet Hardnosed’s dad also didn’t to Vietnam.  It is all as I have said before a bit too “the lady doth protest too much” to be taken seriously.

He is a obvious conservative neophyte that is embarassed his dad wasn’t some rabid hawk.

It is possible that his dad did serve in Vietnam but that he has only things to say that a neopyte conservative would find unpatriotic and cowardly.

Poor Hardnose, can’t come to terms with the fact his pappy is a yellow bellied coward.

Hardnose do you think that the Vietnamese fighting against the USA were partriots?  I mean they were locals fighting against an invader army that sought to support the oppressive decidedly undemocratic government of South Vietnam.

Hey old fart Hardass, I don’t think you are worth it.  Sorry, I have better things to do.

I didn’t challenge you at all - you are the one constantly wants to fight everyone.  You know full well no one is going waste his/her time with some senior citizen.  I would however be afraid you might hit me with your cane.  I bet you are a riot at the seniors centre. LOL

And we see once again - a neo-con psuedo patriot fool failing to address issues.  Just the same old - come on and fight cause I have nothing to say - crap.

Why is it that the people on the right always want to resort to violence?

It’s true what you say about “Hardnose” being being under 40 years old. People old enough to have served in Vietnam don’t play the juvenile name-game of changing the letters in people’s screen names to something they think is insulting. That’s the mark of someone who’s an adolescent, not in their 60s, as true Vietnam vets are. By their words shall the poseurs be revealed.

And is there anything more ludicrous than challenging someone to a fight over the Internet? HA HA! I’ve seen this done where snarky liberals agree to a fight at a specific time and place, and the hot-headed conservative shows up to find no one there. Then the liberals have a laugh at the fool who actually fell for it.

“Bring it on” indeed! Just what George Bush said. I wonder how many U.S. soldiers died because terrorists were encouraged by that remark?

Archeon,

If this guy is between 60-70 and can still drop f-bombs like that, that is really scary.

I’m guessing that Hardnose is between 35-45, didn’t go to Vietnam (but his father did), some college but possibly left early and has some anger and race issues.
He is in that stage where he is cutting back on the “kool-aid” and the Hannity Hate Bunch have marginalized him.  He is looking for some fellowship and came on here to try and support truth.  Problem is he is going through withdrawal from the Hannity.com forums and is in a lot of pain.

Show him some compassion, something his right-wing war mongers would never do.

A of T- Either put up or shut the fuck up puss pocket.  You challenged, I accepted. So, if you have the guts BRING IT ON!!!!

Hardnose, it just occured to me if you served in Vietnam, and served in the military for 25 years you should be between 60 and 70 years old.  I must admit it is kind of gutsy to challenge people almost half your age to duke it out!  I can virtually guarantee that in a hand to hand tet-a-tet with me you would come out begging for mercy.

I have spent 35 years working in construction swinging hammers, working in the bush guiding hunters and anglers, working on farms and ranches, enduring hard cold (-40) winters - and the whole time I have had to put up with redneck foolish ignorants like you, all of whom in the end where a bunch of pussy assed girlie boys.  Yes that included a whole lot of ex-military, who in civilian life couldn’t handle having to actually make descisions.  But they do take orders well.

BTW I have a close friend and neighbour who served in Vietnam in 67 and 68.  He is the first in any conversation about war to state that there is no hounor or glory in the killing of another human, that it is completely dehumanizing, and that the only way to mentally justify it is by making the enemy seem less worthy as humanbeings.  He says now, it would have been more couragous not to go, to resist the draft, to make a statement against war at home.  He says the “easy” choice was going, was to kill.  Just thought I might add that as a balance to the “it’s my country right or wrong” drivel.

I suspect you do deeply within you value what we say, cause like Lady Macbeth - me thinks the lady doth protest too much.

Pukko and the rest, I really do NOT give a damn what you believe, especially you, Pukko, the coward who deserted the U.S.A. By my term of service in the Army and my education I denote a bit of jealousy from all concerned whether you’ll admit it or not.  I have absolutely NOTHING to prove to cry baby quasi intellectuals like many on this site.  Plus I feel this site in full of “wanna bes” who talk big because they are either adolescent punks, pure cowards, and/or have extremely low self esteem.  All talk and no action.  So get out your dictionary, your thesaurus, etc. and waste your time in attempts to put me down as you’ll NEVER succeed.  I KNOW who I am and what I’ve accomplished and your opinions mean absolutely nil to me.  I am comfortable with myself, have confidence in what I can do should the occasion arise.  ARE YOU? WILL MERE WORDS, FACTS, FIGURES, STATISTICS, PERCENTAGES, POLLS,  SAVE YOUR ASSES? HELL NO! WILL THE LOT OF YOU HIDE BEHIND THE FREEDOMS OTHERS HAVE FOUGHT AND DIED FOR? HELL YES!

“THE FREE LOADERS” ON THIS SITE, as someone on another thread on this site said, “are cordially invited to attend the theological place of eternal punishment.”

Bukko/Archeon,

Exactly my point.  If there were a fascist who could present an argument with facts and figures, I would be enthused to no end. 

But…again it is evident that the right cannot engage in any form of debate regarding Iraq.  Their logic is severely flawed and rather than show that defect publicly they resort to insults and threats.
They are getting frustrated at losing and not having sound logic.  They can only drink so much kool-aid.  We’ll be there to embrace them when they have had enough.

I agree with you Bukko.  and Goffredo too.

It is funny that the supposed “lefties” want to talk substance, rely on reason, facts, etc and try to keep the debate reasonably civil.  The righties (wrongies?) however counter every opposition to their points with vitriol and invective - “your a traitor”, “your a faggot”, “your coloured….”, “your stupid” etc etc.

Take Hardhead, he has assumed that I am a gay communist black/mexican when I am neither of those.  I am a white middle class conservative male.  I actually believe we need less government, less police, fewer laws, more freedom, more liberty, more privacy, less government support of corporate welfare bums, fewer state subsidies to industry, smaller military, better intel, less corruption of local/state/federal governments, fair judges, fair prosecutors, honest police, etc.  I also believe we need less religion in government - ie NONE, less politics in the courts - ie NONE, etc.
And we need lower taxes for the lower income brackets, and higher taxes for the higher ones, and very high taxes on extreme inherited wealth - at least 75% on amounts over 10 million.  And most importantly I believe we should stop interfering in other countries internal affairs to suit our business interests - our armies are not the private armies of Exxon, Dupont, General Motors, Cargill, ADM, ATT, Bell, etc.

Goff, do you think “Hardnose” might have been ejected from the Hannity site (and others of its ilk) because he expressed doubt about der Bushenfuhrer?, That, and being a surly putz. They do not brook any dissent from the party line on the reich wing, even from people who are otherwise racist haters like they are.

BTW, kudos on your scepticism (as they spell it here) about “Hardnose’s” supposed military and college background. It’s quite popular for some people to pretend they were in Nam, even if they were just manning a desk at Fort Dix, or merely alive during the 1960s. The true military men I’ve known, and I met plenty on the bases where my dad was stationed, always had enough specifics in their stories to show they weren’t faking.

You are to be commended for your attempts to engage in rational debate with this person. I sometimes try with fascists, but it’s usually futile. They can’t support their positions with rational arguments, so they inevitably descend to “You’re a fag” and “I’m gonna kill you.” As this one has…

Hardnose, you typed, “Facts and figures can and are manipulated to suit various purposes, seldom are they accurate.”

Seeing this declaration of yours does nothing but underscore your lack of serious thought and attention.
Hardnose, you do not have a Master’s degree and you operate your argument entirely on threats, name-calling and your veteran status (unverified). 

I’m embarrassed to have participated in these exchanges with you.

Please, return to the Hannity.com forums, where you feel more accepted and more comfortable.

Hardnosed:

Billions spent to get which countries back on their feet?  Vietnam perhaps, or the Philipines?
What about Nicaragua? or Guatalmala or Chile?

After WWII the USA had no choice but to spend the millions of billions it had made off the blood of it’s boys, and the boy’s of the enemy.  It had to spend it somewhere.  The whole war was a economic masquerade where the leaders on all sides had absolutely no regard for the bastards on the ground fighting and killing each other.

I see we disagree on many things, yet we also agree on many

Bush and company are idiots, criminals, and dangerous - is one I believe.

You can’t however claim that Texas was not formed from a portion of Mexico by immigrant Americans, who desired to keep their African slaves.  That because the government of Mexico refused to change it’s constitution to allow slavery, these white slave holding immigrants from the USA decided to stage an inserection against the legal constitutional government of Mexico.  That Mexico had previous agreed to their demands regarding language and religion, but that it could not allow the treatment of HUMANS as property.

Facts are facts, and you can’t just ignore the ones that are embarrassing or shamefull.

Hardhead please try to debate, rather than using the constant vitriolic invective you are so fond of - it only makes you seem more stupid and silly than I am sure you actually are.

So should we stay in or get out of Iraq? Afganistan?  If we stay, what is our goal there?  What should our goal be?  If your Hardchoice, where president, what would you do?  Would you follow the constitution?  Would you limit liberties? Declare martial law?

It is easy to say that pussy assed commie pinko faggot race mixing weaklings are to blame, lockem up, shootem up, killem all and let god seperate the guilty from the innocent.

However, if that is what we want, let the games begin.  I have the weapons and I know how to use them.  Bring on the police state where a pansy assed coward like myself can finally feel “big” and powerfull.  I think I might even get a kick out of it!

G - I do NOT believe in any polls because they are NOT set up so a person can vote once and only once.  They are rigged just as Bushrods election was.  Facts and figures can and are manipulated to suit various purposes, seldom are they accurate. You deem all you say as true, I do not, and you feel the same towards me, hence the “Mexican stand off.”

I have never justified the war in Iraq, just as I’ve never stood up for Bush or Cheney.  I have stated our troops MUST be supported REGARDLESS of the current administration.  Those troops are doing their sworn duty, no ifs, ands, or buts!  I’ll never tired of stating and defending what I believe.  I will never capitulate to you or anyone else on my beliefs.  Don’t tell you do not feel the same.

Before my first tour was over in VN I knew we were not there to win, but I upheld my oath, I did not shirk my duties. I was ordered back to VN before my wounds were completely healed.  YES! Duty, honor, country! De Oppresso Liber!  YES! I, with all my heart, believe if you are not with us then you are against us.

I am more than aware of the chicanery Bush and Cheney have pulled and are still pulling on the American people.  I firmly believe congress has not started impeachment proceedings due to pure GREED.

Yes, again, Goffredo, we have reached a stand off.  “The irresistible force meets the immovable object.”

Hardnose,

Here’s the recent poll:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/06/29/opinion/polls/main2998882.shtml

And…

If you’re referring to the Marshall Plan, which I assume you are, that provided economic support for reconstruction of western Europe, it came with a price tag.  In France and Italy the post-bellic elections were manipulated so that the U.S. had their special interests protected, especially in the area of exporting manufactured goods. 

We’re not really at a “Mexican” stand-off Hardnose.  I see it more as a typical debate between a progressive and a conservative.  I bombard you with facts, data, and truth and you retort with personal insults and threats.

I see the fire in your writing.  You are truly a believer of what they told you.  There’s no doubting that.  You’re are getting tired, however, of defending that position, the justification for the Iraq war and the chipping away of the constitution since its inception.

You don’t have to try to be someone or something you’re not.  We’re all Americans and if it came down to protecting you from a foreign enemy on our soil, I would do so without hesitation Hardnose.  But just know that being American does not necessarily mean that you must support a presidential administration when it is entirely in the wrong.  That is what most of us on here are fundamentally representing. 

We are simply not buying this “with us or against us” mentality.  We know that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.  We know that Al-Qaeda was not in Iraq prior to our occupation.  We know there were never WMD’s in Iraq.  We know that the war has been grossly mismanaged.  We know that Bush and Cheney wanted to go to Iraq before the 2000 election. We oppose all of this and want our troops to be out of Iraq.

A of T, I can see you’ve read the books written by Mexicans on Texas, as well as those written by communist sympathizers on the other wars.  Strange how very little is mentioned about the billions of dollars the U.S.A. expended to get those countries back on their feet and are STILL giving money to those ungrateful bastards. You’ve had a very good brainwashing which probably started when you were still in diapers, HA! you’re probably still in diapers with all the dribble you’ve put out.  Don’t forget coward, I accepted your challenge!!!!

You neglected to say which dumpster!!!!

Check out the “rewards” given to new enlistees and those who re-enlist.  I’ve done my research, you do yours.

FYI, Goffredo, I have no desire to be in your so called “intellectual circle.” I refuse to lower myself to your standards, or lack of.

Where in the hell do you come up with all these of the wall percentages.  “Common sense” has been around a lot, lot longer than “book sense.”  WOW! Now you’re blaming “common sense” for the war in Iraq! Are honestly for real???

Education is needed to a certain extent, but is not necessary in all areas of life and liberal arts is nothing more than a feeble excuse for an education, and an EXCUSE not to get a job, it is, in my opinion, useless.  I’ll bet that is probably your major, huh?

It is apparent we’ve reached the infamous “Mexican stand off”! You won’t bend to me and I damn sure won’t bend to your lopsided mode of thinking.

I worked long and hard to get my masters, and along the way I KNOW that more common sense saw me through it all than did book sense.  No, I didn’t have a 4.0 average, it was a 3.2.  I was, at the time, juggling a military career,  raising a family, and going to school, not to mention giving small arms and unarmed combat classes.

Thinkers are what has this country in such a stinking mess.  We need more “doers” than thinkers.  Nothing can ever be accomplished while sitting on your ass, except getting a broader one.

Knowledge is NOT free.  Those before us sacrificed dearly for the knowledge we have today as well as the freedoms we enjoy.  Dispute that with your fabricated percentages.

Your outer space thoughts mean nil to me.  I clearly see where you are headed and your path represents all I and many common sense, well educated Americans are against. The red color of your ways will lose.

I hope to see two of you at the dumpster.

Hardass, it has become obvious that you are an idiot ignorant of history.

Take Texas, American immigrants were granted permission to settle there.  They however refused to accept the rules of the new land (that slavery was banned) and decided to rebel against the legal constitutional government of Mexico.  For this some died at the Alamo.  Which rather than be a monument to the struggle for freedom is a symbol of white colonial enslavement.

American involvement in Vietnam was merely and extension of French colonial ambitions.  Communism only gained a foothold because the French refused to grant the “natives” self determination, sufferage, and a voice in government and administration.  It is interesting that in the twentieth century the only country that avoided a communist revolution and civil war was Thailand - a country that was never a european colony.  Countries like Burma, Indonesia, and Malaysia only avoided socialist/communist take overs by ruthless repression of political opposition.

It is a historical curiosity that England, France, Belgium, Holland, and the USA claimed to be fighting for democracy and freedom in WWII - when they were repressing and oppressing the natives in far away non-european lands, natives that were colours other than white.

England - India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, East Africa
France - North Africa, South East Asia, etc
Belgium - Zaire (Congo)
Holland - Indonesia
Portugal - Mozambique
USA - Philipines, Puerto Rico, Hawaii, Central America, Native Lands within.
Canada - Native Lands within.
Russia - various places ie Ukraine, Eastern Poland etc

In many of these places various types of racial and cultural gencide was official colonial policy even until 1960.

Hardnosedass, please inform your self about the history of the world, and the USA before adding more useless ignorant foolishness to this forum.

I suppose one might argue, the whole of the USA and Canda could be concidered the rightfull “reservation” of Native Americans ie Indians.  If they asked us to leave or learn their languages what would we do?

I do love Hardbutt that you want to infer all kinds of things about me, and studiously avoid intellegent debate! That is the mark of a man with out anything to contribute or say. It must be frustrating that your attempts at inslut go unanswered, that instead your feeble points debating points (I am being generous here) are vigourously and with finallity rebutted.

After school, 3PM, by the dumpster…BRING IT! 
Prize: lunch money!

I always thought the reason for the drug addiction was the influx of heroin combined with no welcome home parade like we had in WWI and WWII.  The draft dodgers:  I wouldn’t want to have a mere two weeks of training before deployment to fight in jungle warfare, a style the U.S. had previously never experienced.

Do you really get that much money for being a soldier in the military?  Or are you referring to Haliburton contract security detail?

Get one thing straight Skruff, you son or daughter of a skid-row crack whore, I pull 3 tours in Nam. I’ve more medals than you have buttons on your shirt and I’m goddamned proud of each and every one I bled to receive.  How many years have you put into the service of the U.S.A.? Probably ZERO! I proudly served 25 years.  So don’t puke your know nothing slime at me about why do damn many join and re-enlist today, IT IS THE MONEY.  I have discussed this with more troops than you probably will ever know.  NO! I did not make any attempts to get them to re-enlist, just the opposite due to current circumstances.  But all I heard was ‘that money can buy me or us a new car or a down payment on a house’, etc., NOT ONCE DID I HEAR “FOR GOD AND COUNTRY!”  For you to have the audacity to say I am wrong about the “downward trend” during the VN war is utterly stupid. WHY did so many return stateside with a drug habit? WHY did so many go on R&R only to desert? WHY did so many burn their draft cards and hightail it to Canada? WHY did re-enlistments fall to an all time low?  IF you don’t know what the hell you are talking about, AND YOU DON’T, shut the fuck up!

Oh, yeah, tough (around the mouth) guy, anytime you’re in the Dallas/Ft.Worth/Oklahoma areas let me know and a meeting will be arranged, JUST YOU AND ME!  You threw down the gauntlet, I’ve picked it up!

I think it’s cute that Hardnose wants to join the intellectual circle.  Willingness should never be underestimated.  That shows a clear separation between he and his ilk on Hannity.com forums. 

If indeed you have your Master’s in any discipline that requires critical thinking, then it is highly doubtful that you would rely more on your “common sense”.  As it stands currently, your “common sense” is actually not that common, since only 25% of America would agree with you.  Moreover, “common sense” seems to be agent that created the chaos in Iraq, the one in which we currently find ourselves.

As I stated numerous times, progressive thinkers tend to rely more on facts, truth and evidence.  “Gut feelings” and “truthiness” may work for the slot machines in Vegas or on The Price is Right, however, that is not the case when dealing with issues such as Iraq, health care, immigration, damaged foreign relations, et. al.

This is why an education in humanities is necessary, at some level, for the next generation.  The study of liberal arts produces a more civil person who is less likely to resort to violence, is able to think on a higher level and generally seeks truth and happiness in life (and wishes the same for others).

Those who unfortunately lack education typically lay down for the government and believe any and every thing that is reported.  Their perspective is typically black or white, to the extreme. 

Example: to say to a neocon that you do not support the war in Iraq would translate to their ears as the following:
“I want Bin Laden to be President and put his stinky sandals on the desk in the Oval Office and to pray to dat der KOOOORAN of his in Lincoln’s Bedroom while smokin’ opium and speakin’ A-RAB.”

Sadly, that is not too far from the truth.  The days of intellectual debate are gone (tragically).

Hardnose, you don’t have to claim to have a Master’s to join a debate on any website.  My feeling is that you did so in an attempt to qualify your opinion.  Your opinion is yours, you own it.  But if you are going to have an opinion that is based on mere instinct or “common sense”, then be prepared to defend it on a cerebral level.  This site is regarded as one for “thinkers”, those individuals who are educated and put much thought into their comments and perspectives.  The operate with intellect OVER emotion, not vice-versa.

Knowledge is free Hardnose.  And in order to keep it you must give it away.

Archnotsoverybright. Yep, I’ve heard of the KKK and they were and are a bunch of idiots JUST LIKE THE BLACK PANTHERS AND THE NAACP!

“Stole from Mexico?” I do believe we whipped their Mexican asses for allt hat territory.  IF you live in the U.S.A. then yes, learn to read, write, and speak English, to hell with all these multi-lingual forms or press one for English, etc. The last time I was in Puerto Rico the consensus was they did NOT want to become a state!  The only people that really had so much “stolen” from them are the native Americans.  I support them 100%. Go on any reservation and those who WANT to learn their native language can do so.

Education. I have my masters, but I depend MORE on “good old common sense” than I do book sense.  I will take a person with an ounce of common sense over anyone with ONLY a ton of book sense.  I can see you have neither.  By the way, dumb ass, it is “re-enlisting” NOT “re-inlisting. You really need to turn your spell check on.

NO ONE FORCES a trooper to re-enlist.  It is ALL voluntary, with money as an enticement.  Of course you being a confessed coward and hiding behind the freedoms so many have died for, you wouldn’t know about honor.

The KKK, the Black Panthers, the NAACP, etc., along with communism cater to the ignorant as they KNOW those types are more accessible to their false promises of grandeur as well as their brain washing methods.

In my life I’ve been “knocked down” numerous times, but NOT being a coward or a cry baby like you, I have picked myself up, faced my problems or adversary, and over came them.  I’m proud to be a hard nose or a hard ass instead of being someone like you who, and I read this some place and it fits you, has to jump up to touch bottom!

As my Grandfather use to say - “never argue with a fool because you can’t teach the unteachable.” Where Goffredo did make some sense, you have made none whatsoever.  Argue with your own “kind” maybe they’ll listen, I will NOT!

Hardass:

“Many ex-slaves CHOSE to remain on the plantations, or farms, because they were treated fairly and were paid, and some stayed because they knew no other way of life and were afraid to venture out on their own, which is understandable.”

They were treated fairly?  You have got to be kidding me!  Ever hear of the KKK?  I suppose you don’t believe it ever existed!  I agree many chose to stay because they were afraid - afraid of getting lynched - which for men ususally meant having your balls and dick cut off and fed to you before you were hung and set on fire. Ya any Nigger who tried to better his lot was called “uppity”!  What about all the efforts in the south to restrict voting rights and access? This last post really shows who has been brain washed, and who is deluded.

Let me ask you this, the USA inherited millions of Spanish speakers when it stole Texas, New Mexico, and California from Mexico, don’t their descendants have a right to their language?  Or are you going to claim that all the hispanics are “immigrants”?  That still will leave us with the question of Puerto Rico, where defacto US citizen are denied voting rights - and where the US state continues to resist full integration into the USA and self determination ( ie - colonialism).  What about the languages of the Native Americans?  We certainly can’t ask them to leave, they might on the other hand have cause to ask us to leave.

BTW, I never said I would be a leader, simply middle management, doing the bidding of the leaders while looking out for my own skin, and the skins of my family.  For which I would happily send off you and yours - to the front or to the gas chambers.  I admit I am a coward, however cowards live while heros die.

Goffredo, thanks for that last post.  It was perfectly clear.  Hardass obviously didn’t understand it.  His rant against “big” words showed one of his inner resentments - intelectualism and rationality.  The ignorant long for knowledge, the stupid resent it.

The idea that the troops are re-inlisting out of choice is like Hardassed’s claim the “ex” slaves stayed on the plantations because they wanted to.  Hard to do anything else when there is an active campaign to prevent you from knowing anything else, and when you are “encouraged” to move in one direction.

Archeon, as I have contended from the onset, and that you have confirmed, you really are a true coward, but you know what? YOU WILL NEVER BE A LEADER.  You and Bush are in the same boat, two cowards who want to be leaders but lack the character needed to be a leader.

Your true color(s) really came out in your idiotic post.  “Defacto slavery”? Apparently you’ve been brainwashed to believe that.  Many ex-slaves CHOSE to remain on the plantations, or farms, because they were treated fairly and were paid, and some stayed because they knew no other way of life and were afraid to venture out on their own, which is understandable.  I’ll say no more on this subject because even bleach will not clean out a brainwashing.  Happy dreaming!

Goffredo, there is absolutely no way you could EVER bewilder me. While in college a professor told the class that when speaking or writing DO NOT show off by using ten dollar words when two bit words will suffice because in using those “look how smart I am” words you’ll only irritate the multitude. In some ways you are a bit sharp as you are the first to catch my purposely misspelled word -‘grammer.’ I didn’t think the education in the 80s was that good.

As far as the troops of today, well, I firmly believe they are motivated ONLY for the money, not for God, country, family, religion, or unit.  Plus I feel the caliber of today’s troops is far below the ones of the first, second and Korean wars.  The downward trend started during Vietnam.  I did NOT see that trend when VN began, I did, however, see it mid-way through the fiasco and that downward trend scared me a hell of a lot more than “Charlie!”

You and I could never agree on far too many issues. You are a dove, which is a misnomer as a dove is a very vicious bird, and I am a full fledged hawk.

Two last things…

Hardnose,

You’re right, I did not finish grammer school.  But I did finish grammar school in 1985.  I do agree with you.  Those that live in the US should hold allegiance to the US.  Those who live outside of the US should hold allegiance to whichever country they choose.  I spoke English as my first language, Italian as my second, Spanish as my third and German as my fourth.  Believe it or not, I am the proud owner of a United States Passport.

Secondly, underscoring Archeon’s post…

You are actually 100% correct.  Soldiers do not fight in wars for things like nationhood, liberty and lofty political goals.  They fight to be able to go home to their wives, husbands, children, farm, etc.  However, the concept is psychoanalytic in nature and therefore, I do not want to engage in false hope, nor do I want to obfuscate this topic, for Hardnose. 

There are two realities that take place in war.  They derive from Jacques Lacan’s basic “mirror stage theory”.  The two realities are “umwelt” (an outer reality) and an “innenwelt” (an inner reality).  The “umwelt” is a realm that exists because it is result of the action of the “innenwelt”.  The soldier does whatever is necessary in his/her “innenwelt”, we can call it an inner war: i.e. killing innocent civilians or animals, destruction of property, annihilation of the enemy with hopes that with each action he/she is closer to going to “home” (as stated that can mean several different destinations).  The “umwelt” is the war itself, let’s say for this argument, the U.S. Military and its objectives.  The “innenwelt” allows the soldier to complete the objectives of the “umwelt”.  If you ask a soldier what they’re fighting for, and the interview is on Fox, the producers usually suggest giving the talking points of the White House (freedom, liberty, fight terrorism, Islamo-Fascism, “so our grandkids don’t hafta to come back and fight again”, ad nauseum.  But if you ask my neighbors who have been to Iraq and Afghanistan, all they wanted to do was to get home to see their wives and children, and did not want their children to grow up without a father. 

That’s pretty basic.  Too bad it totally eradicates the theory that Lindsay Graham put forth in his semantic fumbling with Jim Webb on Meet the Nation. He stated that troops are re-enlisting over and over again.  Kind of hard not to when you are forced to go back again without mandated rest.  Also, many soldiers who have been and wish to deploy again are often doing so for their unit, not for their country and its objectives. 

I support our troops but I do not support the war in Iraq. 

Hardnose, go back to the Hannity forums:  they are giving away free tickets to the “Freedom Concert” in NYC.

“Old Teddy said that back when people had moral values which, in today’s world, is practically nil. He also said there should be but one language, ENGLISH, and allegiance to one country, the U.S.A.”

He said this while there was still defacto slavery in the south.  He said this while Native Americans could not vote.  He said this while it was still legal for a man to beat his wife.  He said this while orchestrating a bogus war against spain.  He said this while american economic intersts where suppressing the rightfull longing for self determination of central American psuedo USA colonies.  He said this while daily lynchings of Afro-Americans were public events attended by women and children.

So tell me Hardnosed, who exactly where the people then who had your so called “morals” that are now lacking?  What were these morals?  Murder, slavery, and theft?

Hitler also believed everyone should speak German, and the only alliegance should be to Germany (which would if he could have it, be the whole world).

I would however go to far if I drew a correlation between Hitler, GW Shrub, and Teddy.  Teddy, was I grant a man of personal morals and a deep supporter of democratic values, however his world was a devoid of morality and democracy as ours.  Thus in our admiration of Theodore Roosevelt, Hardnose and I find some common ground.

Hardnosed, I concluded you were a supporter of the Shrub and his minions because of your fetish with the “you are either with us or against us” crap.

Just like I told point-blank, all soldiers who kill in war are murderers, esp. those from democratic nations.  Killing is wrong. It is simple.

Those who did not resist the illegal colonial adventure in Vietnam, were in my mind, intentional or unintentional criminals.  I feel the same way about the adventure in Iraq, and yes even in Afganistan.  IF you and others like point-blank can’t take the fact that some, like me, will not be intimidated to feel otherwise too bad.  Your resistance and mock indignation are much like Lady Macbeth - protests too much.  Guilt is a bitch, she is always there, never giving an inch - even outward expressions of innocence cannot erase the inner shame.

Hardnose, you demonstrate by your willingness to intern those you precieve as “dangerous” your lack of understanding of history.  The ultimate solution in a state of total and perpetual struggle and war against an enemy within is the “final solution”.  The physical expression of the “final Solution” are the gas chambers and ovens of Dachau, BergenBelzen, and Auschwitz - where will we build them here?

This world of the Jackboot, the midnight arrest, is this a world you would want?  IF this is what we want then let us have it!  I guarantee however it is not a world were you want people like me, I am a survivor, and I will be the one wearing the jackboots, I will be the one making the arrests, I will be the one dropping the gas pellets, and I will be the one lighting the ovens.  I am a coward, I will survive, I will conform, unlike you and point-blank I am honest enough to admit that my highest priority is survival.  Which is why I would rather have the world as it is now rather than your world of internment and inevitable genocide and religiocide.

I for one would rather live in a state of occasional acts of terror, than in a terror state.  Unfortunately it may already be to late.

BTW - if I did have to participate in the military, you can rest assured, I would not be on the ground at the front facing the enemy.  I would gladly and happily sit at the back, commanding the minions at the front to go forth and do battle, where I assume mindless fucks like yourself would be - fighting in vain for worthless concepts like HONOUR and GLORY, and reaping only death.  So work hard for this world you seek.  So that cowards like myself will finally have access to the power we secretly lust for.  In the end, survivors survive, heros die.

Goffredo, I didn’t realize you were out of grammer school.

Old Teddy said that back when people had moral values which, in today’s world, is practically nil. He also said there should be but one language, ENGLISH, and allegiance to one country, the U.S.A.

LOL @ Hardnose!

You have been using names that I have not heard since the 5th grade.  Thanks for the adolescent nostalgia. 
I would hate to shut the door on those timeless insults.

On a more adult note, can anyone confirm Lt. Gen. Odierno’s request for the Iraq assessment report to be pushed back to November?

Also…wanted to recommend this book:

http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Michael-Hardt/dp/0674006712

Prophetic!

And lastly, this little gem is priceless.  A link to Bush and Fascism.  Read Eco’s list, #9 made my jaw hit the keyboard!  Holy Nostradamus, Batman!

http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14_pts_2.htm

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the president… is morally treasonable to the American public.”—-Theodore Roosevelt

Archeon, get one thing straight druggie, I’ve NEVER stated that either Bush were any kind of a hero in my eyes.

Looking back on some of your filth on other posts I have to agree with, I believe his handle is ‘Point Blank,’ that you are exactly as he said you are, a gutless pecker puffing, woman beating, mama’s boy who is still hiding behind yo mammies apron who uses sites like this in feeble attempts to show his gross lack of respect and manhood.  As that other person said, why don’t you go back to your corner and play wiff yo self boy.  Save your cum breath as I’ll not respond to your garbage, but I’m sure we’ll meet again o beater of thine own meat.

Goffredo, in my opinion this is the first statement you’ve made that mad any sense whatsoever.

#88642 Finally

Hardnose,

Killing is wrong regardless of where you’re from.  I believe the Muslim extremists are completely wrong for killing.  I didn’t think that was ever in doubt.

In fact, I’m not even anti-war.  I’m anti-IRAQ war.
We should have never left Afghanistan.  The Bush Regime said Al-Qaeda did 9/11 and we were going after Osama Bin Laden.  How did Iraq figure in that equation?

hardnosed - Texas?  The land of pussy assed fuckheads!  Even your hero GW Shrub used cowardly means to avoid serving in Vietnam!  How do yo feel about a lying traitor coward alcoholic pussy wipped shithead send your sons a daughters to die?  What credibility does a service avoiding coward have in your mind?

Ali at least was prepared to take his lumps for his stand.  GW Shrub used his families influence and money to avoid serving in Vietnam, and then still went AWOL, cause he was pissing his pants with fear, or maybe he was just to drunk and stoned to showup!

Pukko, Goffraidycat, Cyrennet, I care NOT if you choose to “ignore” me. In fact I relish that thought because that proves to me just how big of a coward you all are.  All you bleeding hearts will, and mark my words, will suffer in the long run.  While you all attempt to run and hide with your tails tucked, it will be TRUE AMERICANS who will do battle to, unfortunately, save your sorry asses.  Run, run run, is all you know.  You mock bravery with all your what I deem traitorous propaganda on this site.  You look at the world as you wish it would be, NOT AS IT REALLY IS.  There is no such a place as Shangrila nor will there ever be.  Many are fast to bad mouth the current administration, and rightfully so, yet they(you) remain MUTE on the MURDERS committed by the Muslim extremists.  In far too many ways your words seem to SUPPORT their actions and betray the United States of America.  I’ve lost relatives all the way from the Civil War to the Korean Conflict and I’ve seen friends get killed walking next to me in Vietnam and it makes me sick to my stomach to hear the moans and groans from sickos like you who hide behind the freedoms so many have died for.  YOU, AND ALL THOSE LIKE YOU, DO NOT DESERVE TO BE CALLED AMERICANS!  I wash my hands of the whole lot of you.

Cyrena, you’re right about ignoring “Hardnose.” I felt obliged to respond to him one more time, to comment on the news story link he sent. The guy went to a bit of trouble to do it, after all. That will be the last, though.

You must have noticed how much frustration and rage people like him have. It must be horrible to be such a person, because they’re walking around with such misery in their soul. A lot of the hatred that people like “Hardnose” direct outward at others is actually the hatred they have for themselves. It’s psychologically easier for them to spew the rage out than turn it in on themselves. If they turned it in, that would lead to depression, heavy drinking, drug abuse and suicide attempts.

What puzzles me about right-wingers who post here is why they come to TruthDig instead of Red State, Free Republic and the other fascist discussion sites. When I see a rightist pop up, I’ll sometimes try to engage them in debate, to see whether they have anything sensible to say, or if they’re amenable to reason. And I try not to be personally insulting. You don’t change peoples’ minds by slapping them in the face.

People like “Hardnose,” though, I don’t comprehend. It’s not like he’s persuading anyone to think differently, or impressing anyone with his intellect. He just garners insults, which seems to enrage him, so he gets more irate. It would not seem to be a pleasant way to spend his time.

I enjoy this site because I see intelligent minds at work, and sometimes good humour. I don’t agree with everything I read, including you, but it’s intellectually stimulating. For people like “Hardnose” who find it irritating, why come back to a negative experience? It’s like calling your ex-wife!

“Hardnose,” I appreciate the effort you took to provide that link to the Australian story. However, the story was from August 2005—even before I arrived here. It was based on one comment from Alexander Downer, the budget minister, John Howard’s #2.

You will be disappointed to know that there is no official crackdown on masses of Muslims in Australia. They’re treated the same as any other people. Same freedom of speech, even if they’re buffoons like the “Grand Mufti of Australia” Sheikh Taj el-Din al Hilali, who was the official leader of the nation’s Muslim community. He got into a lot of hot water for publicly insulting women and Anglo settlers. Government officials complained about him, but what really did Hilali in was that everyone was laughing at his lunacy. Finally, the Muslim council that elected him also ejected him. If he had been thrown in prison, or out of the country, the way Muslim-haters like you would handle it, Hilali would be a hero to his people. Now he’s a zero. Whose approach is smarter, yours or Australia’s?

In fact, the people of Australia are currently rallying to support a Muslim who’s been charged with helping terrorists. There’s a medical doctor named Mohammed Haneef who was born in India and immigrated to work at a hospital in the state of Queensland. Haneef’s second cousin is one of the idiots who drove the flaming SUV into the Glasgow airport terminal. Haneef used to live with them in the U.K. two years ago, and he gave his cousin a telephone SIM chip. British police found the chip in the cousin’s apartment there, so Dr. Haneef was arrested in Australia and charged with supporting terrorism.

He was held in jail without being charged for almost a week. People were outraged about that, and when the government finally presented its thin case against Dr. Haneef, a magistrate let him loose on $10,000 bail. Haneef still had to face trial, but he was going to be free to be a doctor until then.

Only, the immigration department revoked Haneef’s visa (his permission to be in the country) as soon as he got bailed. The government took him from a police jail to an immigration lock-up. Why? Because of “bad character” grounds. He wasn’t convicted of anything, just arrested, but the government is using every trick it can to keep him behind bars.

I’m sure you’d approve of this. But Australians don’t. People here still believe in the saying “innocent until proven guilty” and they have a cultural tradition that everyone should get “a fair go.” So there are letters to the editor pouring into newspapers criticising how Haneef is being treated, politicians are speaking up in his defence, and if he’s not released, there will be protest rallies on his behalf like there were for David Hicks (an Aussie who was in the Guantanamo Bay prison camp.)

So here’s a country where people are willing to defend someone who’s accused of terrorism (on very thin evidence.) You’d hate it in Australia, “Hardnose.” Stay in Texas, where your symbol is the Alamo, a fort where a mob of pro-slavery white people rebelled against the government and were slaughtered to the last man by a bunch of brown people. I’ve always been amazed that Texas would be so proud of a load of losers like that.

#88553 by farmertx on 7/21 at 4:35 pm

Remember the kid in class who always kept something going? Until the others started ignoring him?
Sounds like a plan to me.

Farmertx and Goffredo: You both figured it out about hardnose. It rarely takes long. And yep, this is the only plan that works. But, I’ve learned from my experiences with people like hardnose, (he sounds like he’s from Tom Delay’s old district). He hates everybody that isn’t white and what he calls a “real man”. (because these types have problems with things like that as well.)

And, he never did tell me how he feels about the REAL/Original Americans. But, presumably, he hates them as much as he hates everybody else.

So, while these people are best ignored, we must always be careful to acknowledge that they DO in fact exist, and that they are dangerous. Hardnose is unfortunately all too typical of the redneck racism/ignorance that still permeates too much of our society, and the Internet makes them bolder. When they aren’t on the Internet spewing this stuff, they’re slithering under and around the rocks and the dirt, looking for something or someone to ambush. They are cowardly, but still dangerous.

In other words, ignore…but don’t turn your back to them.

Hardnose’s book of defninitions.

American = any and everyone who supports bombing the eastern hemisphere (numerous times), who has the bumper sticker, “These colors don’t run” and shows blind and unquestionable faith in its leaders.

Hardnose,

You are a flaming neocon.  There are support groups for that.

Because I don’t support violence, racial profiling or preemptive war does not make me anti-American.  According to that logic (that silly “rational” thingy again) BEING American would mean someone who is predisposed to violence, racial profiling and preemptive war and in fact, enjoys all of them very much.  I would like to think that our forefathers were not of that nature.

I have made my position well-known (along with the other 75% of the population).  I’m neither ashamed nor afraid to show it. 

By the way…I love my country, too.

You are rational ONLY in your own demented mind Goffraidycato! Even with your daffynitions.  You have said nothing in the support of America, NOTHING! So why in the hell are you still here? I’ll tell you why, because IF you pulled some of your anti crap elsewhere you would either be dead or in some rat infested prison.  You and others like you do not have the guts to go elsewhere and talk your bullshit, nor do you have the guts to say it face to face to REAL AMERICANS. It is very difficult for me to refrain from revealing my true feeling toward you and all like you. To put it mildly I will say that if you were on fire I would not urinate on you to help put out the fire.  Continue spouting your rubbish to other anti-American vermin as they will listen as I will not.  I know exactly what you are - an effeminate minus zero. See ya around, spic!

Hardnose,

From your post it would appear your professional life involves some form of human slavery or the sale of human beings for profit. 

Rationalize=  To make rational or to interpret from a rational standpoint.

Rational= Having or exercising the ability to reason, of sound mind; sane, consistent with or based on reason; logical

THANKS FOR THE COMPLIMENT HARDNOSE!  That is what we progressive thinkers typically do: form opinions and perspectives based on facts, truth and evidence (logic).

Gee, farmertex, I don’t see your name or mug shot plastered on this site either. So what in the hell do you have to mouth off about?  From your attitude and words you can’t be a true Texan, transplanted more than likely.  Where am I from?  Lets just see how brilliant you are!  I love the phrase “REMEMBER THE ALAMO!”

Geoffredo…skruff

Guess we are in good company if hardnose is on our case. Notice that he always talks about folks that can’t see the truth..won’t change their minds..et cetera; kinda sounds like him.
Not real sure how I’ll make it through the rest of my life without him feeling sorry for me; but I made it this far, so I ain’t real concerned.
Remember the kid in class who always kept something going? Until the others started ignoring him?
Sounds like a plan to me.
So hardnose rave on…those’ll be ones I’ll pass with pleasure.

Goffredo, unlike you I CAN see the forest for the trees.  I am well aware of what the past and present administrations have and have not done, probably more so than some cry baby like you. Also, if you’ll notice, I ASK for nor GIVE any quarter whatsoever, so climb down from your ivory tower and stop trying to sound like a “do gooder,” because you’re an abysmal failure.  As the old saying goes, “if I could buy you for what you’re really worth and sell you for what you think you’re worth I’d never have to work again in my entire life.”  In my professional life I see people like you every day, people who honestly believe they are ALWAYS right and the rest of the world is wrong.  Delusions of grandeur! Holier than thou! Just plain know it alls who, in reality, do not know squat.  They go through life rationalizing their thoughts, actions and words.  Do I have feelings for them? ABSOLUTELY NOT!

We should give Hardnose a break.  I used to frequent the hannity.com forums, terrorizing the brainless, bloodthirsty lemmings, and I noticed that their talking points come straight off of Fox News (Hannity, O’Rally and the Morning Zoo).  His arguments will remain extraordinarily simple and genuinely argumentative in nature, accusing Democrats or liberals or progressive thinkers of that which his party is guilty of as we speak (Bush weasled out of military service, Vitter cheated on his wife with a prostitute, Mark Foley is a homosexual pedophile, the list goes an ad nauseum).

The War of Terror has manifested itself in Hardnose.  Therefore, you wouldn’t treat a sick friend in a rude manner.  Hardnose is suffering from lack of truth. 

It’s a detoxification process and sometimes it can be rough.

Diligite iustitiam qui iudicatis terram…

We should give Hardnose a break.  I used to frequent the hannity.com forums, terrorizing the brainless, bloodthirsty lemmings, and I noticed that there talking points come straight off of Fox News (Hannity, O’Rally and the Morning Zoo).  His arguments will remain extraordinarily simple and genuinely argumentative in nature, accusing Democrats or liberals or progressive thinkers of that which his party is guilty of as we speak (Bush weasled out of military service, Vitter cheated on his wife with a prostitute, Mark Foley is a homosexual pedophile, the list goes an ad nauseum).

The War of Terror has manifested itself in Hardnose.  Therefore, you wouldn’t treat a sick friend in a rude manner.  Hardnose is suffering from lack of truth. 

It’s a detoxification process and sometimes it can be rough.

Diligite iustitiam qui iudicatis terram…

Skruff, most people on this site would not change their minds about anything because, I feel, they have only a one track mind.  I also feel that many are probably not even out of jr. or even sr. high school and are trying to sound like adults.  Due to our educational system of today they have no idea whatsoever the hardships the U.S.A. endured to get as great as we are today, with, of course, the exception of the current administration.

Skruff, tact is not and has never been my forte.  Perhaps that is why I never made it to E-9.

archeon, we, the U.S.A. did NOT win the war by ourselves.  We helped and were helped.  Let me ask you this WHO paid the brunt of the expenses to get the defeated countries back on their feet? Who pays the brunt of the expenses for the U.N.?

Your expression “a white man’s war” make me wonder if you are a person of color?  Archeon, be a person white, black, brown, yellow, green, purple, orange, etc., IF they do not have the guts to serve their country and use feeble excuses to get out of doing so then I have no use for them, not even to wipe my feet on.  My opinion of Ali will always be he is a coward! Mind you I did NOT say he wasn’t a great boxer because he was,but he could have never beat Rocky Marciano.

Farmertex, I wish I could say I feel sorry for you but I can’t so I won’t.  Your so called arguments or retorts or replies are, to me, very childish.  You apparently have no idea to exactly what I’ve said, only your warped interpretation.  When you decide you can use just a teeny bit of good old horse sense then speak to me.  Oh, I know you’ll ramble immaturely about things, just thought I’d say what I felt, as I usually do.

Hardnosed - hardass is more like it.
You probably also beleive it was the USA that won WWII.

Ali was quite clear why he did not want to go to the army and fight in Vietnam.  It had nothing to do with religion - it was about fighting a white man’s war to support the subjugation and enslavement of a non-white people.  As a muslim he whould have had no problems fighting agains a nonmuslim people, he had trouble helping a state that still was openly racist against non-whites at hometo fight to oppress other non-white peoples else where.

Yes the USA did do wonders in Europe after WWII, and it’s help there to spur the economic developement of western Europe was and should be admired.  It did nothing however for the people of Portugal and Spain, who suffered under the thumb of Facist (Nazi) governments until the 1970’s.

Let me ask you this, what did the USA do for the people of Vietnam?  Nothing but death, destruction, and polution.

What is the USA doing for the people of Iraq? When US soldiers are not raping and stealing and torturing they are blowing shit up.  The people of Iraq as a whole where much better off under Sadam.

George Bush is the traitor.
He alone is to blame.
He should be in prison.
If treason is still a captital crime, he should be executed.

Your glorious leader was a yellow coward.  He did not go to fight in Vietnam, he used family influence and power to avoid it.  That in my mind is the greatest cowardice.  To think this moronic coward pussy feels qualified to be “commander in chief”, what a joke.  To think millions in America think he is doing a good job is frightening.

Maybe after 5000, 10000, or even 20000 deaths of American soldiers in Iraq the American people will wake up and take all those to blame for the war and “hang em high”.

Hardnose
Sure am glad that you have never run across an American that was a cheat nor a back-stabber; you’d be hating the whole country that you love so much.

Farmertex, I hesitate not to say the last part of your first sentence sounds good to me.  I was unfortunate enough to have worked with a many of those mid-east jerks and learned right off they are back stabbing sons of bitches!

Goffredo, The followers of Islam HAVE NO CIVIL RIGHTS.  Wake the hell up and make some sense!

FYI Bukko, http://headlines.sify.com/news/fullstory.php?id=13924046

I cannot believe you’re unaware of what the radicals there were told. It is probably that you see and hear ONLY what suits you.  You’re afraid of the truth!

Your last post tells me exactly what you are, a pure coward who has run from reality all his life and will continue to do so when things get just a tiny bit rough.  After you read the above I suspect you will be against that government as well as that is your nature to be “against so much and for so little.”

You may be an “arse wiper,” but I feel you are a better “arse” kisser. I have absolutely no respect for filth like you.  I would feel more remorse by stepping on a cock roach than I would stepping on a traitor like you.

While I do not like nor agree with the current administration, and am doing all I can to to see they are impeached, I still love the country I and my father fought for.  Unlike you I have NOT abandoned the U.S.A. just because things are a bit rough.  A sign that was in the locker room when I played football has been my credo for many years: “When the going gets tough, the tough get going.”

Keep your trash coming, traitor.

Hardnose, please inform me WHAT ultimatum the Aussie government gave to immigrants? I oughta know that one, because I’m an immigrant here, working so I can get permanent residency status. (I was born in the U.S. way back when Nixon was VICE president, but my wife and I emigrated here in 2005 because our consciences would no longer allow us to keep paying tax money for the war machine.)

I’m not aware of any government ultimatum. They’re talking about instituting a citizenship test, and you have to know English if you want to become a full citizen. But I’d appreciate if you’d tell me how much more you know than I do about the country where my arse is currently sitting. Like that “hot iron” you mentioned in an earlier post.

I’m not Muslim; I’m atheist. But I literally wipe Muslims’ arses, because I’m a hospital nurse, and my hospital’s catchment area includes the Brunswick suburb where many Turks, Lebanese and other Muslims patients come from. So yes, you could say I’m a Muslim supporter. I don’t support suicide bombers, but they don’t need any support, because they’re dead.

I also wipe Italian arses, and Greek Orthodox “back passages”, and Anglo-bred Aussie bums—they all stink just the same. I’m happy to clean people when they mess themselves, and give them pain meds, and bandage their surgical incisions, because I’m in the business of keeping people alive. You seem to be focused more on death. How sad.

I haven’t met a Muslim yet who’s expressed the kind of hatred I’ve heard from Caucasians. (Had an old German about six months ago who spoke fondly of the Nazis, but he was in his late 80s and demented.) People down here, especially the immigrants, all tend to say “Why can’t we all just get along?” More like a nation of Rodney Kings than hard-nosed people like you.

I’m still curious what you’d do, if you were king, with all the Muslims you would round up if there were Islamic terrorist attacks inside America. But if you’re not going to kill ‘em, and you can’t trust them enough to turn them loose, what do you do? I suspect you don’t have an answer, because the idea of killing millions of people is too horrifying even for someone who thinks of himself as a hardnose.

What I’m trying to show you is that your belief is unsupportable even to yourself, if you just think about it deeply enough. Perhaps it’s time to think with your brain and your heart, instead of your nose…

Hardnose,

Nazis did not kill randomly.  Germany was a sovereign nation. They had tanks and planes and a formal military.  They occupied countries.  They told their people, “you’re either with us or against us.”  They took away civil liberties.

What do they have in common with Islamic radicalism?

Sounds like they have more in common with Dick Cheney and Karl Rove.

Click on this link:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7934590059446095681&q=14+points+of+fascism&total=19&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Enjoy.

Hardnose, how do you differentiate between an innocent Muslim and a guilty one? Kill ‘em all and let God sort it out?
I was asked by a business owner why I traded with a store owned by Jordanian immigrents, seeing as how their kind were responsible for 9/11.
Well,I couldn’t trade with an American because their kind was behind Oklahoma City.
Just as I will admit that there are some Democrat’s that we would be better off without them in office, I can see good and bad in all. I accept the good and fight the bad.
Just as some Republican’s can see no wrong with the Shrubs’ actions, there are those who are truly blind as to what is going on in front of them. Not the behind the scenes stuff, but out in the open.
We really need to get past all that and work for the common good.
Ain’t that what America was all about?

Bukko, am I to believe you do NOT support the ultimatum the Australian government gave ALL immigrants be they Muslim or whatever?  You betcha, I firmly believe that ANYONE who makes an attempt to bring harm on me or mine or my country then by damn they will suffer the consequences. Are you a Muslim? Be truthful, because you damn sure make attempts to defend them.  NO! I do not trust any Muslim as their promises to us “Infidels” do not mean squat. IF a Muslim is born here and kills then he, she, or they deserve the same fate as McVey and company received, DEATH! IF they are born here and are caught plotting against the U.S.A., then they are traitors and should be put to DEATH.  I suppose you believe all those suicide bombers, who kill many innocents are to be honored? Oh, yeah, I know what you’re going to come up with next—what about the death of innocents caused by our troops? Casualties of war cannot be helped.  But suicide bombers, get real, heads chopped off for WHAT REASONS, again, get real! Lets put the shoe on the other foot, you don’t feel that the Muslims are acting MORE like the Nazis with all their random killings, again, get real.  Again I ask, are you a Muslim or just a bleeding heart Muslim supporter?

Hardnose is one of those Teddy Roosevelt warned us about.  Those who grant their government unquestionable support are far from patriotic.  There is an enormous difference between my country and my government.  They are not one in the same. (even though Bush & Co. would want you to believe otherwise)
I used to be really Johnny Patriotic.  I went to high school in the 80’s, when all movies had to have an anti-Soviet tip.  I played wiffle ball growing up, listened to Springsteen every single day (everything prior to Born in the USA) and tee peed every house in my town on Halloween. I’ll admit though, winning the gold in hockey in 1980 was sweet.  Very sweet. 

But after college I lived in Europe in 3 years and my perspective changed.  That history lesson of how the U.S. “went and kicked ass everywhere” just didn’t seem to cut it anymore.
Somewhere in that time I removed my arrogance that the U.S. was the best in everything and replaced it with the U.S. is where I was born and where I am fortunate enough to live.  At times I’m not necessarily proud to be an American but I’m grateful to be living here.  I guess that goes with our freedoms.  That we can continue to do our part for our family, our neighbors and our country but simultaneously be disappointed in our country’s leadership.

So Hardnose, it really isn’t all or nothing.  The only thing that is all or nothing is being pregnant and being dead.  You mentioned WWII earlier.  If I understood it correctly, we were opposed to entering WWII when Poland, Hungary and France were taken in less than 12 months.  I suppose there was dialogue and debate and then the answer was “NO”.  (France did the same then we were wanting them to co-sign our bullshit intelligence on Iraq)

When did we become “shoot first, ask questions later”? Where have the intellectuals gone?  Where are the Jeffersons, the Jays, the Madisons, the Franklins….?  Our forefathers would be in a state of “shock and awe” over the complete lack of reason in the Bush Regime.  But as I said, who needs reason when you have “yee-haw”.

Hardnose, nice to see you’re honest enough to admit you favour tactics like rounding up masses of innocent people and putting them in camps. A lot of people who agree with that would not say so openly, even when they’re protected by a screen name. They’d use a euphemism like “protective custody” or dance around admitting it. Because imprisoning millions of people based on their religion is what the Nazis did. Fortunately, you are hard-nosed enough to confess you believe in having the U.S. emulate the Nazis.

Next question, if you want to expound upon your philosophy for us, is “What do you do with those Muslims, if the U.S. has to round them all up because Muslim terrorists have set off bombs inside America?” Should the U.S. keep them locked up until the War on Terror is over? What if that takes 10 years? Can you ever let them go? Because they might swear an oath on a stack of Korans that they’re not terrorists, but then turn around and become one. I’m sure you’d support deporting any Muslim who was born in a different country, but what about the ones who were born here? What about their children who were born here? What do you do with their cars, houses, jobs (there are a lot of Muslim doctors in rural communities where I’ve lived, since no native-born American doctors will work there for the low pay on offer.) So many thorny questions, if you think through the issue.

Hardnose, are you hard-nosed enough to say you support killing all the Muslims in the detention camps you favour? C’mon, you can be honest about what you think. No one knows who you are.

Archeon, you keep on believing that about Ali.  To me he was yellow and hid behind the cloak of religion just as many others did and he, as well as the others, should have been exiled from the U.S.A. Say what you want, but I’ll NEVER change my thoughts on Ali or any of the other yellow draft dodgers.

I don’t know your age, nor do I really care, but one of these days (you’ll never admit it aloud) you’ll see just how correct I am.  So, Archeon, pile your stuff on someone else as it will not hold with me.

Skruff, you are so correct!!!

Cyrena, you must be a bit young and wet behind the ears and uable to read between the lines.  Of course with today’s brand of education I guess I expect a bit too much.  Just WHAT “legitimate grievances” do the Mexicans or the Arabs have against us? We whipped the Mexicans butts and we set the Arabs up with the knowledge of how to operate their oil fields(ARAMCO). For what it is worth I am damned proud to say I am half Cherokee Indian.  If any race is owed anything it IS,WITHOUT A DOUBT, THE TRUE NATIVE AMERICANS.

As long as my flag is red, white and blue, with 50 stars I will honor it and defend it NO MATTER WHERE IT IS MADE. So, Cyrena, stop making mountains out of mole hills!  Oh, yeah, my pants, unless you’re wanting to get in my pants what the hell difference does it make? FYI, I checked a dozen pair of my pants, jeans and slacks, and by damn! would you believe they were made in the great U.S.A.  I, as many others, have no use for China.  They have forgotten what we did for them during WWII, but I haven’t forgotten how they stabbed us in the back in Korea.

In your posts it seems you really don’t give a shit about the U.S.A., so I ask, WHY IN THE HELL ARE YOU STILL HERE?

Cyrena
Good points. Saved me from having to type them. Thanks.

Hardnose, I think you could be rattling in the wind…with ITW. What’s with you and this fondness for everything Chinese? You hate Mexicans, and you hate blacks, (and refuse to consider them Americans) and you say that Mexicans and Arabs hate us more than anybody knows.

•  Bad mouth the current administration, FINE, they deserve it plus more, but desecrate my flag and, by damn, you’ll have one hell of a fight on your hands with no quarter given.

But, you’re still holding on to those pants and keeping them up, (rather than be caught with them down in a terror attack) and you never answered Skruff when he asked you if those pants were from China. (and…unless you’ve had them for 10 years or longer, they probably are).

Same thing with you and YOUR flag. The flag of the U.S.A. in now manufactured IN BULK, - in CHINA. We don’t make flags here anymore. (can you say…outsource, outsource, outsource 3 times –fast-?) And, China makes them out of a fabric that doesn’t really “desecrate” easily. The very best you can work up from them is a slow and rubbery smelling smolder. So, not to worry there. As long as China keeps making them, we’ll keep using them on our loved ones coffins, as the Pentagon continues to sneak them (our loved ones) in from the war zone, under cover of darkness. (Keeps the majority of the population from having to be distracted from their shopping, by such depressing things happening to other people.)

Meantime, I’m really not scared of the Arabs or the Mexicans, although I must accept that they do have some legitimate grievances against us. I’m far more worried about another attack from the Cheney Cabal in DC. Besides, it seems doubtful that the Arabs or the Mexicans could hate us any more than you appear to hate them. What about the Canadians? Should we run them off as well? Make sure they don’t sneak across that northern border? Lot of Arabs up there. Maybe we could find a special technology that can distinguish the Arabs from the rest of the Canadians, so we can keep them out, without offending the rest of our non-Arab neighbors.

I bet you could come up with something.

I’ll warn the ORIGINAL Americans (the few left) just so they can be on the lookout for you. Some people get them mixed up with Mexicans, and I’m thinking you might be one of them. You WILL allow them to stay - right? I mean, seeing as how you’re such a patriot. I’ll just tell them to wear something that distinguishes them as an “endangered species”, and hope that you’ll cut them some slack on the grandfather clause.

But you do forget Hardnosed - the Ali was willing to go to prison for not going to fight in what he beleived was just another white european war to support colonilism in Asia.

This was a war that the USA inherited from the French, who were absolute colonial oppressors in Vietnam, which is why communism was so appealing to those there seeking to establish a VIETNAMESE state free from oppressive colonial influence from Paris.

Anyone believing anything that comes out of the Bush administration deserves what they get. Anyone still believing in George Bush should immediately volunteer for Iraq duty. If they’re too old, they should sell all their assets and give the cash to George.

Goffredo, from your post you sound as if you’re just barely out of middle school.  The term “raghead” is still used.  Now you go right ahead and drink you Capri Sun and eat your fruit roll-up, it is good for you.  I’ll just drink my unsweetened iced tea and eat my fresh fruit.

I am not now, nor have I ever been or will be a dove, a peacenik, a bleeding heart.  While I do NOT agree with, nor like, our current administration and their holier than thou attitude, I refuse to go against my country and I will stand up to ANYONE who, in my presence, makes any attempt to desecrate my flag.  I am against open immigration and amnesty to those already here, and to those mothers who come over here just to have their babies and become citizens as they will NOT be productive citizens.  I am against giving them things they have NOT earned, like social security, welfare, credit cards(compliments of Bank of America).  I’m against this multi-language BS! Learn to speak English or get the hell out. I will continue to call a black a black, a Mexican a Mexican, an Chinese a Chinese, I will NOT put American before or after any of them.  They are either Americans or THEY ARE NOT. So, Senor, adios for now.

Skruff, that was then, this is now, and I agree MORE with the THEN than I do with the NOW! We had people with guts back then that today would say to hell with all this political correct BS! Call it as it really is! And you bring up Ali, the yellow coward who hid, YES, HID, behind religion because he was a coward to fight for his country and for the rights he took advantage of, not to mention the money he eventually made.  And as far as I’m concerned the U.S.A. should have kicked Henry Ford and Joe Kennedy, plus a few more,. out for being nazi sympathizers.

Impeach! Impeach! and Impeach!

I for one will only be happy when I see the whole lot in prison taking it up the ass from Bubba.

#87981 by Ed on 7/19 at 8:19 am
(Unregistered commenter)

America is no longer the home of the brave. It is the home of the greedy, the wimpy and the stupid.

Yeah Ed, right on and fuck all.  I think I’ve had it with all of this shit, what do you think?

Hardnose,

Put down the kool-aid and walk away slowly.  We won’t shoot you (unlike your brethren would do).
I can’t believe I’m even responding to your post!  I haven’t heard the term “raghead” since I was in middle school. I feel like I should be drinking a Capri Sun and eating a Fruit Roll Up while I respond to your post.
But then again, that is how you folks on the right debate.  When facts and truth rear their ugly head, you pull out the numerous racial epithets and say, “There, take that!”  You are skilled in the art of debate.  Continue with your “truthiness”, hate, intolerance and arrogance.  You wear them well.