Most people talk about what they think or what they feel instead of what they know. Thomas Jefferson may have owned a copy of the koran. That would not make him a muslem. One fact that most people don’t know is that Thomas Jefferson insisted on the Holy Bible being taught in puplic school. The seperation of church and state that most people think that we should have is not mandated by our constitution. Read it, don’t let someone else tell you what it says. Only the subject of character, beleif in the only God shows charater. People who do not believe the Bible have not read it. Our contry was founded by people who believed that God dreated us and the Bible is our direction from our heavnly father.

There are some things that are extremely disturbing about this swearing in process. Why is this particular process an issue and all of the ones prior to this one not an issue?
Why is using the Koran an issue and using the Bible not an issue?
Why is placing your left hand on the Koran an issue and placing your left hand on the Bible not an issue?
Why, if religion is to be kept in its place that God only requires us to “follow his ten commandments”?

What I like most about Ellison’s method to this “ceremony” is his ability to peel away all aspects of it; from the book being used to who fills the shoes has not been an issue until a Black man alters the “ceremony” ever so slightly.

If we did not know the book being used was the Koran, what other differences would we have noticed? Keith Ellison is a black man and therefore, with keeping in the white American spirit, added demands has to be placed on him. Keith needs to understand that he has to do things the way they have always been done (the way white men have established). Keith needs to know the rules and we don’t use the Koran to swear into office (the way white men have established). Keith needs know that he cannot use the rules of his position to assist other people of color, especially those who might use the Koran to swear into office (the way white men have established). Keith needs to know that the media is watching every step he takes and if he steps out of line, every media source in America will hone in on him like an American soldier’s M-16 round into an innocent Iraqi child’s temple (the way white men have established).

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Minn.) has done what we have demanded of the newly elected House and Congress; he has created change. Unfortunately, for most white Americans, Rep. Ellison is a Black man and you are not quite ready for a change of this sort. Therefore, the stone age in which the Republicans have taken America, will continue to loom, even with the new Democratic look.

Doesn’t the ritual of swearing on the Bible make hypocrites out of many?
I know that approx. 24% of the people of america are atheist or agnostic. (Probably the real figure would be much greater, if really known!)
So how many congress people have sworn on the Bible while they were laughing at the stupid tradition.
We all know that the Bush/Cheney gang have made a mockery of religion.

i agree there should be no religious tie-ins whatsoever. why can’t they put their hands on the constitution? this country was not founded on christianity or islam.

First, #45743, thanks for the clarification of the wearing-in ceremony—which would have made this discussion academic if you hadn’t added that part about good-book photos ops afterward.
These comments are an interesting mix of religious tolerance and intolerance of religion in general. I’m in the latter camp. As Bob said, “Swear on the Constitution; not a work of fiction.”

C Quil, Bob and K.T.B., I fear that Sam Harris and the rest of us will never see the day when an atheist (or homosexual, for that matter) will be sworn into a high office—not as long as people subscribe to the fantasy that professed religiosity implies morality. Usually, it’s the opposite. (I can give examples.)

re: #45712 Bob, I am very taken by your suggestion, “Swear on the Constitution; not a work of fiction.” I’m going to have to think about that one for a while.

The real step forward will be when someone is sworn in who doesn’t have to use any “holy book” or his or her religion as a ticket of entry - when their character and their word will be enough.

Look what happened with Bush and his cabal. The “oath” required them to uphold the constitution and all they’ve done is destroy it piece by piece.

Has an atheist ever been sworn in? And can you call it an oath if there’s no book involved?

Am I the only one who noticed this? Ellison placed his left hand on the Koran. That’s the unclean hand, in Islam, isn’t it? It’s the hand Mohammed said believers should use to wipe themselves with after voiding their bowels. Wouldn’t placing one’s unclean hand on the Koran to swear or affirm one’s loyalty to the Constitution of the United States be considered blasphemy by the hardcore imams who enjoy declaring fatwas on people like Salman Rushdie? Does Ellison even have a future now?

That aside, I find all this controversy over the book he chose to touch during a pivotal moment in his political career to be rather funny. I hope in the future to see politicians make their oaths of office on such books as Darwin’s “Descent of Man,” or Golding’s “Lord of the Flies,” or even “The End of Faith” by Sam Harris! (Al Franken’s “Lies, and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them” might be a little too much)

But then I like what Bob said. Place your hand on the Constitution, where it belongs, and swear to protect and defend it. God, or Allah, or The Flying Spaghetti Monster has no need of Man’s protection or defense.

Bob (#45712) - the actual oath ceremony .... the “legal” oath - does not include use of religious books

it is in a photo-op afterward in which reps use symbolically important books - Bible, Koran, what ever ...

every rep takes the real oath the same way ... without a religious text to erode separation of church and state

of course, many reps run around wearing their religious beliefs on their sleeve - i have often wondered what Jesus would say about his faithful adherent, former Rep. Tom Delay of Texas ..

Rep. Ellison does not grandstand his Muslim beliefs btw - it is almost always someone else who raises the issue .. and he addresses it with courtesy, compassion, intelligence, inclusion and tolerance .. and ends up talking about issues that we all care about regardless of faith .. unlike so many of our reps

i’m not in his district (Mn 5th - i’m in 3d - Ramstad he’s moderate republican)  .... i believe Ellison is going to be a stellar representative for the people of the 5th - i’d be as happy with him as my rep as i am with Ramstad ... maybe more so, since i scale between Ramstad and Ellison on policy

Great !
Just hope that Islam continues to be kept in its place just like Christianity and other religions.
Religion is man made. God is not Islamic, Christian or Jewish. Only people need religion, not God.
God loves all of us the same.
God only requires that we respect and love one another, as well as follow his 10 commandments.
All the rest is a lot of customs & religious dogma.
God bless

Bible or Koran; it doesn’t matter.  Neither should be used because it violates the whole concept of separation of church and state.  We should not beconsidered a Christian, Jewish or Muslim country.  Swear on the Constitution; not a work of fiction.

A stroke of political genius.  Inclusion..that is what this society is about.  Exclusion is what the republicans are about.  They are against anyone that differs from them, they’ve proven that.  Three cheers for the USA, for inclusion and for democracy.

Headless