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Re: Comment #17714 by Mad As Hell on 8/10 at 1:04 pm

Ah, Mad as Hell ...

What I REALLY said about Darfur was:

“Yes, the genocide in Darfur is a crime against humanity, and is more than a sliver. But maybe the best way to stop ALL violent conflict would have been for us to use our power to be peacemakers rather than squander our status as an honest broker for peace in the Middle East through a pre-emptive conflict in Iraq based on lies.”

Check it out at: Comment #17683 by Hilding Lindquist on 8/10 at 9:18 am

Your selective twist to what I said was interesting ... but deceptive.

“Are my tax dollars buying bombs to dropped on people in Darfur?

A core value to which I subscribe is that I should first take care of the 2 X 4 in my own eye before worrying about the sliver in someone else’s. “

Here we have it: It’s more important to stop bombs we paid for killing less than 1000 people than stop bombs and bullets we didn’t pay for killing well in excess of 1,000,000 people.

You don’t have a 2x4 in your eye--you have a dust mote. And the people of Darfur don’t have a sliver in their eye, they have a sharpened 2x4 right through the heart.

Having revealed a depressingly weak sense of ethics, you then go on to quote scripture.

Has Israel screwed up in their handling of Hezbollah? Definitely! Should they have responded, even with force? Definitely!  Does the world posture and act as apologists for EVERY heinous act performed against Israel? Yes.

Does the world give a shit about genocide in Africa? No.  They make speeches and try to take the moral high ground, but NOBODY really, TRULY takes that high ground when they ignore Darfur, and Rwanda before it.

Interesting to compare the number of hits in a google search, as suggested in this post from August 2nd on the Really Mag site.

http://reallymagazine.com/#

I just checked a minute ago. “Boycott Israeli goods” had 94,000 links. “Boycott Lebanese goods” had 1 - a link to the “Really Mag” post.
-----
Google as a zeitgeist sampler ?

Bearing in mind that it now samples around 24 Billion web pages, can Google be used to as a reliable indicator for public opinion ?

Do search results like these below mean anything ?

Compare and contrast :

“ boycott Israeli goods “

“ boycott Lebanese goods “

02 AUG 06 ( late edition )

re: Comment #17645 by Mad As Hell on 8/10 at 2:34 am

>Where are the loud cries against Sudan’s genocide in Darfur? Where? Hypocrites!

Are my tax dollars buying bombs to dropped on people in Darfur?

A core value to which I subscribe is that I should first take care of the 2 X 4 in my own eye before worrying about the sliver in someone else’s.

And, yes, the genocide in Darfur is a crime against humanity, and is more than a sliver. But maybe the best way to stop ALL violent conflict would have been for us to use our power to be peacemakers rather than squander our status as an honest broker for peace in the Middle East through a pre-emptive conflict in Iraq based on lies.

“Blessed are the peacemakers for they shall be called the children of God.” -Matthew 5:9 (And attributed to a person named Jesus.)

And maybe Israel, our ally, wouldn’t be so ready to attack disportionately if the leadership of my country didn’t have such a “Bring it on!” attitude.

Maybe the best thing I can do is try to get my country and its allies to set a better example for peace.

Hypocritical? We call for honoring UN Resolution 1559: the disarmament of Hexbollah. What about UN Resolution 242: the return to 1967 borders?

There is enough hypocracy for all to wallow in, in fact both sides are drowning in it.

How dare Hugo!  Why, why, ... we should tell him to keep his oil, and we’ll buy all we need from friendly, Israel-loving democracies like ...

Seriously, ain’t nothin’ gonna happen.  Oil binds all.  Hugo is one of the few state figures, aside from Bush or Ahmadinejad, who indulge in saying whatever nonsense they want.  Chávez’s real scope of influence is very small, but he gains attention by teasing the giant US and making Neocons go ape.  But no Venezuelan will blow himself up for Hugo or anyone else.

Has Chavez had Venezuela cut ties with Sudan?

If not, then he’s a hypocrite.  If so, then maybe he has a leg to stand on.

I hate how all those who condemn Israel are silent on Sudan and Darfur, which makes the Israel’s attack on Lebanon look like a birthday party.

Israel wants to rule the world? What kind of bullshit is that?  Next you’ll be quoting from “Protocols of The Elders of Zion” as proof, despite it’s being a well-documented crude forgery created by the tsarist secret police.

It’s possible to criticise Israel’s tactics legitimately.  But to attack her right to survive and claim that the ONLY just thing is for Israel to be wiped out (which ALWAYS means--and her people slaughtered) is morally bankrupt.

Where are the loud cries against Sudan’s genocide in Darfur? Where? Hypocrites!

I spent all my money at Citgo. Israel exists, mostly, because Christendom failed...If not for the fact that both Iran and the United States have morons as heads of state, I’d take all this personally.

The only reason we back isreal is because the religious nuts in USA are afraid of what god might think if we do not support Isreal.  Sure, some say we need an ally in the middle east, but that has not slowed the violence much.

It always boils down to religion.  Our corrupt administration is using religion to dictate foreign policy and that is scary.

Whenever you combine religion and government, it is the beginning of the end because all causes become “religious” causes.

This evening while watching Oliver Stone’s new movie, THE WORLD TRADE CENTER, I thought about all the worldwide goodwill that GW has pissed away since 9/11 by being led around by the Neocon-Rapturist-Zionist “Bring it on!” attitude.

Think about it ... if we had finished the job in Afghanistan where the development of a culturally appropriate democracy appeared to be possible at one point ... and then worked as an honest broker of the peace process to explore a Israel-Palestine agreement based in part on the widely supported UN Resolution 242, returning to the 1967 borders ... even if just as a framework to get the parties involved talking ...

Now we have the re-emergence of the Taliban in Afghanistan, the violent chaos of Iraq desending into a civil war even Rumsfeld will be able to recognize, and the expanding war between Israel and Hezbollah in Lebanon ...

All the while those we label our opponents in other arenas continue to thumb there nose at us, knowing we are already being over committed to issues of our own making.

Now topping it off, even Hugo Chavez, Venezuela’s president, is totally dissing us with impunity ... severing ties with Israel and selling Venezuela’s oil to China and Cuba ... which is their right, by the way.

I was listening to Peter Galbraith the other evening discussing Israel’s disportionate response to Hezbollah’s siezing the two Israeli soldiers ... my understanding of was that he was pointing out that it wasn’t so much a matter of whether Israel was justified or not in its response, but that the response will not produce the goals Israel says it desires.

My opinion? Israel, not just its two soldiers, is now—once again—hostage to Hezbollah.

So now I ask what Chavez has to gain from Iran by dissing Israel?

These international “chess” players are almost always working two or three plays ahead (except GWB, of course, who’s still working on understanding Chinese checkers).

Chavez is getting, or has been promised SOMETHING of great value to him/Venezuela, or, in my opinion, he wouldn’t have said anything.

What is it?

¡Viva Chávez!

The only thing I don’t like about this guy so far is his rather questionable taste in music - the Venezuelan version of country and western which he insists must get a huge chunk of airtime on the national radio station.

Its amazing how the zionists this last few weeks have gone on a media campaign to defend the killings and destruction in Lebanon. A handful of zionist lobbyists (~200 in AIPAC with a budget of $40M) are literally dragging our country into one war after another with the loss of tens of thousands of lives. Ironically many prominent activists speaking out against this are Jewish. The world is no longer buying into this “anti-semite-if-you-oppose-zionist-plans” trick.

Tomack,

So what *are* Israel’s alternatives?
a) continue to be attacked and be wiped out
b) talk (only works if Both participate)
c) something else ?

Collin

http://evangelicalperspective.blogspot.com

“By this act, Chavez is showing more moral leadership than rest of the international community.”

Got that right, Kevin! Let’s all make a point of buying Venezuelan, whenever possible, starting with Citgo gas.

Kevin999999,
Moral leadership is no such thing when it allies
you with a fascist theocracy that stands on the throats of millions of its own citizens.

Chavez weakens the positions of legitimate leftist, populist leaders working around the world with his patheic Castro-like theatrics.

Hate Israel all you want for whatever reasons, but don’t let it draw you into partnerships with truly despicable regimes.

By this act, Chavez is showing more moral leadership than rest of the international community.

Collin, re: your response to Spinosa: while I don’t think they or us are facist (yet) I do think Israel had/has “alternatives”. One would be NOT to bomb and displace thousands of innocent people. That’s one…

THE GOOD OIL DAYS

(President Bush softly sings.)

I miss Arafat in the Springtime,
I miss Saddam in the fall,
Lebanon‘s a mess, it‘s in splinters,
I had no idea at all.

Our only pal, Saudi’s being squeezed regarding Palestine,
And Hugo’s kissing sheiks, what gall,
Rummy says they fight less in the winter,
I had no idea at all.

Condi says this mess is a great opportunity,
Some laugh, but what constitutes reality, is my call,
Every planetary wide entity hates us, look Mom, I really am a ‘Uniter’,
Bombs Away, bombs away, you’all.

Spinoza,

Do you really think Israel is trying to conquer the world for fascism?
What is their alternative?

Collin
http://evangelicalperspective.blogspot.com

Is it really coming down to us (the USA) and Israel against the world?

Russia and China MUST be having a field day diplomatically and economically vis-à-vis our foreign policy ... I mean they were already buying up the world’s raw materials—China with our dollars, by the way.

Now we learn that GW and Condi are feuding ... my god, the wheels are coming off entirely, not just off the track!

In Brief from HuffingtonPost.com:
<Quote>

Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has become increasingly dismayed over President Bush’s support for Israel to continue its war with Hezbollah.

State Department sources said Ms. Rice has been repeatedly stymied in her attempts to pressure Israel to end strikes against Hezbollah strongholds in Lebanon. The sources said the secretary’s trip to the Middle East last week was torpedoed by the Israeli air strike of a Lebanese village in which 25 people were killed.
<Endquote>

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/thenewswire/#a026822

Full article:
http://www.insightmag.com/Media/MediaManager/Condi4.htm

No surprise here.

Collin

http://evangelicalperspective.blogspot.com

Bravo!!!

I think there should be a universal boycott of Israel, maybe even people who trade with Israel.

We have to say that right wing fascist ideologies are unacceptable in this century. Israel the USA are the greatest promoters of fascist ideology.

Here is a speech by George Galloway at the rally last Saturday in London

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article14415.htm