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Ear to the Ground

Friends Don’t Let Friends Use Torture

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Posted on Dec 4, 2005

Condi Rice is so tired of Old Europe and its human rights complaints. Big deal, so the CIA is using Soviet era torture camps in Eastern Europe to stash “war on terror” prisoners.  Don’t those fusspots in the EU understand that our use of torture is fundamentally different because we are the good guys and that Eastern Europe has been liberated?  That outmoded European slogan of “friends don’t let friends use torture” is so over.

  • Rice defends secret prisons.
  • European Union wrote to Rice about CIA secret prisons.

  • —Posted by Robert Scheer.

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    By quotemenot, December 8, 2005 at 8:09 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    I believe Condi forgot what torture is especially, since her own “people” African-Americans were used as slaves to be tortured and killed.  I think she needs to take a refresher course in African-American history.  Condi thinks if she plays by the rules of the power mongels than she succeeds to the level of a different racial group. The Bush Adminsitration will never heed to anything but, their own way bullying and torturing because they have “fear and paranoia” within themselves. The prisons in US can keep these terrorists safe and “cozy.”  After all, the US has has plenty of terrorists not only in our jails but, walking the streets.

    Report this

    By M Henri Day, December 7, 2005 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    A sort of moral Gresham’s law seems to operate in which bad morality - the «anything goes because we’re dealing with bad guys» morality of the Empire - drives out the good morality of the Republic, which prohibits «cruel and unusual Punishments». What one has to keep in mind is that the torturers - and their bosses - do not remain abroad ; they come home and begin to apply the lessons they learned in foreign parts to domestic situations. Ask the French, who may remember how members of the Army that tortured Algerians came home and assumed positions in police departments throughout the country. Do people in the United States want former torturers patrolling their streets and shopping malls ? What goes ‘round comes ‘round….

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    By nationalusa, December 7, 2005 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Perhaps someone should pose a more direct question to Condi Rice. “Secretary Rice- can you please list what exactly constitutes of torture”

    Report this

    By 2cool4politics, December 6, 2005 at 11:48 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    To the John who wrote, “the Constitution is God’s blessing for our president to do whatever he wants…”  This is probably the stupidest thing I’ve ever read in my life.  Anyone who knows the least bit about the Constitution will recall its incorporation of a system of “checks & balances” between the three branches of government, in order to prevent any one branch (esp. the prez) from becoming too powerful.

    John, I might add that the Constitution was written by men, not God.  I thought you might know that by now. 

    If you think that torture is NOT morally reprehensible, then consider the fact that it is strategically indefensible as well.  Four years after Bush created military tribunals, not ONE of the more than 500 “enemy combatants” being held at Guantanamo or in CIA “secret prisions” has been brought to trial.  This is because evidence gained through “physical coercion” of any type is universally inadmissable in court.  According to the US Supreme Court (with or without Alito), information obtained through torture is, by nature, unreliable.  What should we do, just hold them forever without bringing anyone to trial? What about the President’s promise to “bring them to justice?”

    And what about Jose Padilla, the apparent “dirty bomber” who, after 3 years of being held as an enemy combatant, is now being charged for such flimsy & unrelated offenses that he stands a good chance of being acquitted?  The use of torture to obtain evidence against him is the reason why they cannot charge him for what he was originally captured for, John. 

    What if he really was guilty, and is released?  Hopefully his next dirty bomb won’t be planted in your town, John.  We’ll see what you think of torture then.

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    By Ron Ranft, December 6, 2005 at 1:45 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    The Bush Administration has claimed that it returned numerous detainees to Afghanistan and they immediately took up arms and started fighting the Americans. I wonder, another country invades my country, takes me prisoner, shakles me, puts a hood over my head, flys me to another country, keeps me in the equivalent of a dog kennel where I am subjected to all kinds of cruelty, and then after 3 years I am returned home. I can assure you that the country who did that to me would have an enemy for life. And if these people were actually terrorists, if torture really works, why then did they fess up and why did we let them go. Something is rotten somewhere.

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    By John, December 5, 2005 at 4:12 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Bring the suspects home: In World War II, we had POW camps all over the country. We knew if we kept them here until the war is over, there was little chance they’d escape, cross an ocean and rejoin our enemies.

    So let’s all be tough on these terrorists and keep them imprisoned in the USA. That way we can keep an eye on them directly. I don’t understand why the Bush administration wants to keep them in Cuba and secret prisons elsewhere. Are they scared that they’ll escape? Do they think Americans are too fat and lazy to take on the threat of chained and aggresively interrogated prisoners right here in the USA? That’s just insulting.

    Instead of having those brie-eating Europeans complain about so-called “illegal” and “inhuman” treatment, let’s open a terrorist Alcatraz in Kansas. If we wait till Alito is on board, we won’t even have to worry about liberal activist judges telling us the Constitution is all about “human” (read: secular human!) rights.  The Constitution is God’s blessing for our president to do whatever he wants.

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    By M Henri Day, December 5, 2005 at 3:35 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    The CIA uses torture and, when not outsourcing to countries like Egypt and Jordon, operates it own black archipelago (or gulag, if one prefers the Russian term) in among others certain particularly subservient countries in Eastern Europe. Surprise, surprise ! I remember a fellow judoka from the Kodokan in Tokyo 40 years ago who flew for Air America and who would regale us with tales of throwing bound Vietnamese from his plane while flying over the jungle - he found this very amusing. Those with experience from Latin America can recount their own horror stories. Let us work to bring these stories of torture and murder at the hands of the CIA to the people of the USA and Europe, who for the most part are blissfully unaware of these practices, in the hope that by doing so, we can contribute to these practices being curbed. But please, let us not affect surprise ! This is and has always been standard operating procedure….

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    By RepubAnon, December 5, 2005 at 2:09 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    When is someone going to start asking Bush Administration officials what the difference is between torture and the “cruel, inhumane and degrading” interrogation methods the Bush Administration is fighting to preserve???

    Report this

    By Norma J. Shattuck, December 5, 2005 at 11:24 am Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    With her stone-walling re rumors of U.S. portable-prisons-abroad, Condolezza Rice has succeeded in exploding the wistfully naive myth that the world would benefit from the surely more humane approach of women occupying powerful posts. It is particularly chilling to note her hostile “back off” message to our European allies who are justly concerned about secret American gulags within their borders. Has she conveniently forgotten that, for generations, apologists for slavery and post-slavery oppression issued similar “back off” warnings to any who supported freedom and justice for blacks?

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    By George Heymont, December 4, 2005 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    If Secretary Rice and her fellow administration thugs are so eager to be able to use torture then the most obvious solution is to let all the various torture techniques be tested on *THEM*—

    Submit Dick Cheney to waterboarding.

    Pull out George Bush’s fingernails.

    Tar and feather Karen Hughes

    Force Condi to play with Barbie dolls in public.

    Maybe that’s the best way to get these people to start telling the truth.

    Report this

    By basilbeast, December 4, 2005 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment
    (Unregistered commenter)

    Hello!

    I caught you from http://www.catch.com/

    Torture is totally poison, totally antithetical to the philosophy of our governance.

    Report this
     
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