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Chris Hedges
Chris Hedges, whose column is published Mondays on Truthdig, has written twelve books, including the New York Times best seller “Days of Destruction, Days of Revolt” (2012), which he co-authored with the cartoonist Joe Sacco. Some of his other books include “Death of the Liberal Class”...








 
 

Israel’s Barrier to Peace

(Page 5)

She was eight months pregnant when Abed was arrested for the 13th time.  He was sent to Ofra prison.  The prisoners live 20 to a tent in the desert.  They sleep on wooden pallets.  The tents are sweltering in the summer and cold in the winter. 

“Abed sleeps under 10 blankets in the winter,” she said.  “There is no heat.”

There is an open sewer nearby and swarms of mosquitoes.  He is being held on secret evidence, which means he has not been told the charges against him.  Abed has never been sentenced.  His six-month military detention order had been extended for another six months in June.  It too was done in secret.  It can be renewed indefinitely.  Amnesty International has adopted him as a prisoner of conscience.

His health is precarious.  When he was 16 he was arrested for throwing stones at Israeli soldiers.  He was tied to a chair in contorted positions.  His back and stomach were under tremendous pressure.  He was in great pain.  His head was covered with a bag soaked in urine.  Allegra has sued the army for the torture he underwent in 1996.  He was also tortured on three other occasions while in detention. 

“They have told him he will be released if [we] drop the lawsuit,” she says.  “He will not.”

She gave birth to their first child, Quds, the Arabic name for Jerusalem, this spring.  Abed has never seen his son.  When Allegra asked for the address of the prison to mail her husband pictures of their child she was told there was no address.

“My husband has been banned from Jerusalem for 20 years, so we brought Jerusalem to us,” she says. 

She is an Israeli citizen, but because her husband is Palestinian, because of his ethnicity, he is refused citizenship.  She was born in Long Island.  He was born here.  This is how it works in Israel.  Israel is a democracy only for Jews.  If she had married a Jew he would have a passport and citizenship.

“What democratic state builds its laws based on a person’s ethnicity?” she asks.  “The goal of the South African apartheid regime was to separate whites and blacks to preserve white privilege.  How is this different from what is being done to the Palestinians?”

“Who is really being shut out by this wall?” she adds.  “Who is being shut in?  Israel will be a closed society when the wall is finished.  It will even further shun reality.” 

Her son wakes up and begins to cry.  She gets up and walks to his room.  She comes back with the infant in her arms.  She begins to breast-feed him.

As she coos over her son she lets me read a notebook smuggled out of the prison.  It has drawings by one of the prisoners for her child Quds with stories by her husband.  On the cover of the ruled school notebook are the words “Quds Smart Notebook.”

In one picture a small boy is feeding a bird.

“This is Quds’ bird,” it says.  “Quds feeds the bird.  The bird loves Quds.  The birds are playing in Quds’ beautiful garden.  They know Quds.  They love him very much.”

She slips her wedding ring off her finger so I can read the inscription on the band inside.  It has two letter A’s with a heart between them.  The word “forever” is etched into the band.  She cradles the child in her arms and whispers words of comfort to him.

She looks up, weary and sad. 

“In Israel, I’m considered radical because I advocate equal rights for all persons residing between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea,” she says.




It does not matter where I turn.  I see the noose tightening.  There is no escape.  The barrier is closing in from every side, grinding and crushing everything in its path.  I begin to feel the claustrophobia, the sense of inevitable doom, the awful fatalness of it all.

Palestinians cling to what they have like shipwrecked sailors clinging to the hull of a sinking boat.  There is a mass migration.  They are being forced from their homes.  Some have moved into their fields.  They have set up squalid little encampments in vegetable patches.  It is their last stand. 

I walk over the heavy earth on the Israeli side of the fence from the village of Jayyous.  The village has some 2,200 acres, along with six wells and pumping stations.  The fence has separated the farmers in the village from 73% of its irrigated farmland.  About 300 families are losing their only source of income. 

My feet are covered with dirt.  I see across the fields the sparks shooting up from numerous campfires.  I hear voices, the idle chatter of children, women and men. 

Suffian Youssef, 30, stands beside an old blue truck.  His two brothers, his mother and his father are with him.  It is nearly dark.  They have set up a small tarp and a crude shack.  It is where they sleep.  There is a brass coffee pot on the brazier over the fire.  I smell wood smoke.

“We began to sleep in our fields a month ago,” he said.  “We fear that if they close the gate we will not be able to get to our crop.  We are having trouble getting our crop to market.  We took the crates of potatoes up to the gate in the truck a few days ago.  The Border Police told us to take the crates off the truck and load them back on the truck four times.  When we took them off for the fourth time they dumped the potatoes on the ground and crushed them with their boots.  They beat us with their rifle butts.”

Crickets chirp softly.  I see a half moon poking through the haze in the sky.

The roadblocks and checkpoints mean that farmers cannot get their produce to urban areas in the West Bank.  There are now Israeli suppliers, who can use the settler roads, who have taken over these markets.  Prices, because vegetables are bottled up in agricultural areas, have plummeted.

“We may not have enough money next year to plant a crop,”  Youssef says.

When I leave it is night.  I stumble out of the fields.  I know they will not be here next year.




It is late afternoon at Gate Number 542 in the farming village of Zita, north of Tulkarm.  A sign on the electric fence that runs along the dirt track for as far as the eye can see reads: “Danger.  Military Area.  Anyone crossing or touching the fence does so at his own risk.”  It is in Hebrew, Arabic and English. 

The iron gates are painted yellow.  There are motion sensors and television cameras mounted along the fence.  There is a smooth strip of sand to detect unauthorized footprints.  There is a dirt service road.  There is a trench about seven feet deep to stop vehicles from crashing through the barrier.  There is a paved road for the army jeeps.  There are coils of razor wire.  The land on either side of the barrier, about 100 feet wide, is desolate.  Blackened stumps from uprooted olive trees poke up from the dirt.  All living things on or near the barrier have been killed.  It tastes of death.  This is what the barrier will look like in most places on the West Bank.

There are poles mounted with powerful floodlights along the barrier to turn night into day.  The farmers who live on the edge of the wasteland, often once their farmland, cannot sleep because of the glare of the lights.

A dozen poor farmers and shepherds are clustered on the other side of the barrier.  They have grazed their flocks or tended their plants on their land, land Israel has swallowed up.  They have been there for an hour.  The gate is supposed to be opened at 6 p.m.  On some nights the border police come early.  Other nights they come late.  There are times they do not come at all.  When they do not come the farmers and shepherds sleep on the ground near the gate until morning.

Jamal Hassouna, 43, a farmer, is standing with me.  We are standing on land that once belonged to him but was taken without compensation to build the barrier.

“If anyone touches the fence, even a child, they are not allowed to pass,” he says.  “Every soldier is a little Ariel Sharon.”

Two green armored jeeps from the border police roar down the asphalt strip enclosed by the two electric fences.  They halt and five policemen climb out.  They hold their M-16 assault rifles at an angle.  They are wearing helmets.  One soldier, watched by two others, goes to open the padlock on the gate on the other side.  He swings the gate open and the motley crowd walks out into the empty space, across the tarred road and the dirt road to the yellow gate on my side.  They show the police their special permits before they are allowed through the yellow gate.

The police are silent.  Jamal says it is because I am present.  On many nights, he says, farmers are insulted, cursed, made to lift their shirts or humiliated by being told they have to crawl through the gates.  Wives and children no longer cross to spare themselves the harassment.  There are many farmers who, although they are never told why, are no longer allowed to pass.  Their fields are dying.

I walk to tomato fields covered by gauzy brown netting.  Iyad Abu Hamdi, 27, is seated alone on the lip of a small drainage ditch next to the field of tomatoes.  His land is on the other side of the barrier.

He was tending his crop of peppers a few days ago when a patrol of the border police arrived at his field.  The two policemen began to make lewd remarks to his wife, who was working with him.  They ordered her to make them coffee.  She obeyed.  They ordered her sister to bring them water.  She refused.  They threw their thermos at his brother and told him to fill it with water.  He also refused.

“They began to beat my brother,”  Hamdi says.  “They tossed the coffee in our faces.  They cursed us.  They shouted at us.  They confiscated our identification cards.  The soldiers told my wife to accept their advances or they would ruin her reputation.”

When he says “accept their advances” his voice quivers with emotion and he turns his head away to avoid my eyes.

The sun is dipping below the earth.  There is a dim yellow glow across the fields.  His voice is shaking.  He bows his head between his knees and looks at the ground.

“This happened on Aug. 3,” he begins again.  “I have not been allowed to cross since.  They slam the gate shut in my face.  My crop is dying.”

The tears roll down his cheeks.  They too are serpent’s teeth.

1   2   3   4   5
Dig last updated on Jul. 25, 2006


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By Fadel Abdallah, October 14, 2006 at 2:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Another Bloody Barrier to Peace
Lest The World Forgets!
October 14th, 1953
Qibya Massacre: History of Terrorists

This year’s 14-15th October, marks the 53rd anniversary of the massacre in the Palestinian village - Qibya. Every fall in Qibya during the olive harvesting season, the memory of the attack is kept alive in a mourning ceremony. A memorial plaque behind the village mosque honors Sharon’s victims. [Flore de Préneuf, “An Eye for an Eye,” Salon.com, 2001]

At about eight o’clock on a warm autumn evening Ahmed al-Badoui was standing guard in a grove of olive trees on a rocky slope just beneath his village of Qibya. It was dusk and people were settling down for the night. Moonlight picked out the jagged limestone crags typical of the rolling hills and valleys north of Jerusalem. The city itself was only about 10 miles away but could not be seen. The first warning came when al-Badoui saw a dark shape flicker across the rocks at the edge of the olive field.

At first, he thought it was someone trying to steal olives. He gripped his wooden cudgel tightly and shouted a challenge. His answer came in a hail of bullets. One smashed into his wrist, another into his side. The impact of the heavy rounds knocked 22-year-old al-Badoui, a strapping 6ft farmer, into the dusty earth.

As he staggered to his feet he screamed to wake his village: ‘The Jews are coming, the Jews are coming.’

It was mid-October 1953. Within eight hours al-Badoui’s home was rubble. By dawn the next morning Israeli special forces would have dynamited much of the village and killed 69 people. Their leader was Ariel Sharon […] The people of Qibya certainly think they know Sharon. ‘He is a man with killing in his blood,’ al-Badoui told The Observer last week. ‘I do not know why God has let him live.’

[…] Safia Hussein Teeb, 83, remembers al-Badoui’s screamed warnings as Sharon’s crack troops poured through the olive groves. ‘I was at home getting ready to go to sleep when I heard the shouting,’ she said last week. ‘Everything was confused and we hid downstairs where the animals were. All night we could hear explosions as the Israelis blew up houses. My daughter and her husband and my nephew were killed.’

Sharon’s orders were to blow up some public buildings to make a point. He could, his superiors said, blow up a few houses as well if he felt it was really necessary. But the young commander had equipped his men with 600kgs of explosives and was determined to use them. In all, nearly 50 houses were destroyed. Most villagers died when their buildings were blown up. [The Observer]

The Israeli historian Avi Shlaim wrote this about the massacre in his book, The Iron Wall:

The order to attack was given by the acting defence minister, Pinhas Lavon, following the murder of an Israeli mother and her two children by infiltrators who had crossed the armistice line near Qibya. Lavon did not consult the cabinet and only casually informed Sharrett of the order. At the meeting of the MAC on 13 October, the Jordanian representative denounced the murder, promised full co-operation in tracking down the perpetrators, and conveyed Glubb’s request to Israel to refrain from retaliation. On hearing this report, Sharrett telephoned Lavon and asked him to call off the attack. Lavon replied that he would consult Ben-Gurion. Lavon later claimed he did indeed consult Ben-Gurion, who agreed with him - and that this meant it was two against one. Ben-Gurion himself later stated that he was on leave at the time and was not consulted but that had he been consulted he would have supported retaliation.

Lavon’s order to attack was executed by Unit 101, a small commando unit created in August to carry out special tasks. Unit 101 was commanded by an aggressive and ambitious young major named Ariel (’Arik’) Sharon. Sharon’s order was to penetrate Qibya, blow up houses, and inflict casualties on its inhabitants. His success in carrying out this order surpassed all expectations. The full and macabre story of what happened at Qibya was revealed only during the morning after the attack. The village had been reduced to a pile of rubble: forty-five houses had been blown up, and sixty-nine civilians, two-thirds of them women and children, had been killed. Sharon and his men claimed that they believed that all the inhabitants had run away and that they had no idea that anyone was hiding inside the houses. The UN observer who inspected the scene reached a different conclusion: ‘One story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them.’

The Qibya massacre unleashed against Israel a storm of international protest of unprecedented severity in the country’s short history. The cabinet convened on 18 October under the chairmanship of Ben-Gurion, who had just completed his three months’ leave. Sharrett, horrified by the scale and brutality of the action, proposed an official statement expressing regret over the action and its consequences. Ben-Gurion was against admitting that the IDF carried out the action and proposed issuing a statement to say that it was the irate Israeli villagers whose patience had been exhausted by the endless murders who took the law into their own hands. The majority of the ministers supported Ben-Gurion, and it was decided that he should draft the statement. In a radio broadcast the following day, Ben-Gurion gave the official version. He denied any IDF involvement, placed responsibility for the action on the villagers who had been provoked beyond endurance, and expressed the government’s regret that innocent people had been killed. This was not Ben-Gurion’s first lie for what he saw as the good of his country, nor was it to be the last, but it was one of the most blatant.

The official version was not believed, and it did nothing to reduce the damage to Israel’s image. On 24 November the Security Council passed a resolution condemning Israel for the Qibya operation and calling on it to refrain from such operations in future . . .

The principal perpetrators of the attack on Qibya, however, remained unrepentant. Lavon told the cabinet that he gave the order on the basis of a cabinet decision in June that empowered him to order reprisals. He also claimed that this reprisal was necessary in order to prevent the murder of more Israelis in the future. Ariel Sharon was well pleased with his handiwork. He thought the operation did a power of good to IDF morale. He also claimed that Ben-Gurion congratulated him on this operation. According to Sharon, the outgoing prime minister said to him, ‘It doesn’t make any real difference … what will be said about Kibbiya [sic] around the world. The important thing is how it will be looked at here in this region. This is going to give us the possibility of living here.’ (Avi Shlaim, The Iron Wall: Israel and the Arab World, Penguin, 2001, pp.91-92.)

Sharon’s history offers a monochromatic record of moral corruption, with a documented record of war crimes…

According to the diplomat’s account, Israeli forces had entered the village and systematically murdered all occupants of houses, using automatic weapons, grenades and incendiaries. On 14 October, the bodies of 42 Arab civilians had been recovered; several more bodies were still under the wreckage. Forty houses, the village school and a reservoir had been destroyed. Quantities of unused explosives, bearing Israel army markings in Hebrew, had been found in the village. At about 3 a.m., to cover their withdrawal, Israeli support troops had begun shelling the neighbouring villages of Budrus and Shuqba from positions in Israel. [Source: Counterpunch - The Crimes of Ariel Sharon, 2001]

Ariel Sharon wrote in his autobiography that, although the civilian casualties were regrettable, after the Qibya operation “it was now clear that Israeli forces were again capable of finding and hitting targets far behind enemy lines.”

The original orders issued by the Israeli General Staff were to “carry out an attack - with the aim of temporary occupation and the demolition of houses, and to harm the inhabitants”. Down the command chain, the orders changed to demand “maximum killing” [Benny Morris, Israel’s Border Wars, 1949-1956: Arab Infiltration, Israeli Retaliation and the Countdown to the Suez War, Oxford University Press, 1993, pp. 258-9.].

Ariel Sharon wrote in his autobiography Warrior (1987):

“I couldn’t believe my ears. As I went back over each step of the operation, I began to understand what must have happened. For years Israeli reprisal raids had never succeeded in doing more than blowing up a few outlying buildings, if that. Expecting the same, some Arab families must have stayed in their houses rather than running away. In those big stone houses […] some could easily have hidden in the cellars and back rooms, keeping quiet when the paratroopers went in to check and yell out a warning. The result was this tragedy that had happened.”

Israeli historian Benny Morris expresses doubt in this claim, considering the nature of the orders Unit 101 received. He also points to the fact that U.S., U.N., and Arab Legion reports indicate that villagers were killed before the demolition of the houses began. The U.N. observer who inspected the scene, Major General Vagn Bennike, chief of staff of the U.N. Truce Supervision Organization (which investigated the scene the next day) said: “one story was repeated time after time: the bullet splintered door, the body sprawled across the threshold, indicating that the inhabitants had been forced by heavy fire to stay inside until their homes were blown up over them.” [Source: wikipedia]

The Israeli troops “in moving through the village, had indiscriminately thrown grenades through windows, knocked down doors, and sprayed the interiors with automatic fire.” [Morris, p. 262 - via: dissidentvoice]

Even Moshe Sharrett, the acting prime minister in Israel’s Labor Party government at the time, was shocked. “[In the Israeli cabinet meeting], I condemned the Qibya affair that exposed us in front of the whole world as a gang of blood-suckers, capable of mass massacres, regardless, it seems, whether their actions may lead to war,” Sharrett wrote in his diary. [Source: socialistworker]

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By Tony Wicher, October 14, 2006 at 1:47 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #28584 by Barry on 10/13 at 2:06 am

“More news from Frank and Robert’s buddies.  Amazing the kinds of actions that American liberals will support these days!”

You say Frank and Robert support actions such as the ones you describe? I had not noticed that. I thought they were democrats, not Islamic extremists. What say, you guys? Are you big fans of Zarqawi? 

Reply to Comment #28615 by Robert on 10/13 at 8:35 am

“Tony, I don’t see much or any sympathy or love coming from your direction towards the traumatized victims, the Palestinians, of this tragic conflict.”

I sympathize, I sympathize. But the cause of peace is not served by violent acts, nor yet by strident rhetoric.


Reply to Comment #28675 by Frank Goodman, Sr.  on 10/13 at 4:42 pm

“Most of that time Jews did live in that land and shared it with others peacefully. It was only when the Zionists came to kick out the others that trouble ensued. I do not agree that the Holocaust was the precursor of this mentality. Jews have been yearning for millennia for an exclusive land where they only had other Jews to disagree with.

It is an inborn trait of Jews that they cannot accept others as equals.’

Frank, surely you know that this is not an inborn trait of just Jews. Haven’t you noticed that all nations, tribes, religions, peoples, ethnic groups, etc. have a strong tendency to do this? Racism itself may be inborn. So let us all watch ourselves very carefully.

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By Tony Wicher, October 13, 2006 at 10:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #28542 by ed_tru_lib on 10/12 at 9:36 pm

“No amount of ludicrously naive defense of terror, politely stated, will any be of any more value than any other form of saying “sieg heil”.”

ed, you are funny, man! Even I’m a Nazi now! I wonder if you will ever see that you are projecting all these Nazis that have been surrounding you for six decades, actually materializing them, as it were, out of your own fears? If my ministrations are insufficient, perhaps you can find yourself a Rabbi that can help free you of this dybbuk!

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By Kwagmyre, October 13, 2006 at 7:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Posted by Barry:

“Funny how noone in America wants to merge with Mexico or Canada, give up American culture and society and merge with anyone else who feels like it.”

How do you know?  I for one might just endorse such a policy if we were guaranteed big time “regime change” in the United States of Amnesia(as Gore Vidal calls it).

Later you add:
“You want Israeli liberals, creators of a leading economy, start-up companies, and agricultural successes, to agree to merge with a bunch of homocidal killers who have been bombing our malls and coffee shops?”

Such self-congratulatory posturing here! We’re not here to denigrate Israel’s accomplishments in technology, its economy, etc.  We have an ongoing issue with its ethical shortsightedness or what one might call “moral myopia”. Your very statement here conveying an unwillingness to tackle the root cause of terrorism is ample evidence of that!

Sad to say but you’ve condemned yourself to a life of insecurity so long as you create more and more “terrorists” among Palestinians and Lebanese(with the Hezbollah)determined to make your life a living hell.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 13, 2006 at 4:42 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment #28586 by Barry on 10/13

Comment #28584 by Barry on 10/13

Comment #28542 by ed_tru_lib on 10/12

So, it is a waste of time for Zionists to post here. Good. But, go ahead and waste my time and yours. You are all doing a very good job of highlighting the vicious nature of Zionism and the Zionist state. You are showing the world the errors of your assumptions. They are coming out in clear bigotry. You are showing future leaders just how bankrupt your blood lust and claim of ‘God’s chosen people’ are.

I could not have chosen a better bunch of renegades from the human race in this time to present the case for a return to the Palestine pre-1948. But, I am not advocating that. I am advocating a New Palestine of the 21st century. One where everyone has equal rights and no enemies. Where Jewish, Muslim, and Christian children could sleep in their own beds on their own land and dream of peace and cooperation every day of their lives. Where workers would toil for the fruits of the earth in peace with their neighbors, where there were no ghetto settlements of Jews only, where there were no suicide bombers, where there were no rumbling tanks in the streets and no helicopters and drones in the air over quite homes. Where every citizen could claim equal rights with ever other citizen. Where every human is a brother or sister to every other human being on earth.

You Zionist liars and bloody land thieves are doing mankind a great service in showing the error of your ways and the sheer stupidity of the claim of ‘God’s chosen people’. Every one of those posting comments in this space against the Zionist view, are supporters of fair and equitable settlement of all problems on the basis of the universal human rights. Only Zionists are attacking the truly humanitarian appeal for peace. It is as though God has ordained that Jews must fight forever for their superiority.

I read in the Bible that every attempt by Jews to establish a state in that part of the world has failed. From Abraham who found people in the land without people, to Herzl, a journalist, who advocated leading the Jews to their promised land. Most of that time Jews did live in that land and shared it with others peacefully. It was only when the Zionists came to kick out the others that trouble ensued. I do not agree that the Holocaust was the precursor of this mentality. Jews have been yearning for millennia for an exclusive land where they only had other Jews to disagree with.

It is an inborn trait of Jews that they cannot accept others as equals. Americans have begun to act imperially in the world and they too have taken on an aura of God’s chosen form of government. Christian Americans especially believe that they are chosen by God to lead the rest of the world’s morality. They do that while supporting the largest criminal element in the world. That seems to be the common element that throws the American political might behind the taking of Palestine and the occupation of the Palestinian people. The Bible is one of the most cherished books of Americans, though few have read any of it, and those who have do not understand what they read. No American I ever met could tell of the massacres in the old testament, where villages were attacked by Israelites with the blessing of God and all inhabitants, including men, women, children, and animals were slaughtered. This seems to be the mentality of America and Israel to this day.

All you jerks who support Israel please stay and write all you can in support of your cause. It helps us present the human rights issue by having authentic examples of what we oppose. Especially, ed, and Barry. We could not find a better source of material that highlights the stupidity of their cause.

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By Robert, October 13, 2006 at 9:49 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

WHICH COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST HAS SECRET UNDECLARED NUCLEAR WEAPONS?

WHICH COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST HAS UNDECLARED STOCKPILES OF CHEMICAL & BIOLOGICAL WEAPONS?

WHICH COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST HAS NO OUTSIDE INSPECTIONS OF ITS NUCLEAR & CHEMICAL FACILITIES/FACTORIES.

WHICH COUNTRY IN THE MIDDLE EAST HAS CAPTURED/KIDNAPPED & JAILED ITS WHISTLE BLOWER, MORDECHAI VANUNU?


Its not Iraq and its not Iran!!!

You guessed it. Its ISRAEL!!!


Jonathan Cook:

“ISRAEL’S PLAN FOR A MILITARY STRIKE ON IRAN”


http://www.counterpunch.org/cook10122006.html

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By Robert, October 13, 2006 at 8:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RE: Comment #28363 by Tony Wicher on 10/11 @ 10:08AM.


“As I said in a previous comment, the problem with zionists is not that they are pathological liars trying to deceive us, but they are suffering from the severe trauma of the Holocaust. You talk to any of them and it always comes down to the idea that they are surrounded everywhere by Nazi-like enemies who are trying to destroy them. There is no resemblance whatever between any Palestinians or Arabs or Muslims and Nazis, but not from their traumatized point of view. In order to help them, they need our love and our sympathy, not our oppobruim.”

Tony;

The Jews have for many years had total entrepreneurship of “God’s chosen people” with a biblical right to Palestine.

Zionism has been politically successful in reducing the holocaust to Nazi war crimes against Jews. By presentting themselves as the major (the only?) victims in the history of humanity they expect to claim special moral rights.

The method is used favorably to justify and “cover up” the genocide of the Palestinians.

“Anti-Semitism” is being used to stop criticism of Israel’s way onwards to achieve the goal of a jewish state in the whole of Palestine.

Look at what has happened to what was originally Palestine, walled-in and gradually wasting away. We are almost there now.

Look at all the settlements in the occupied territories, they are symbols of occupation & Israel’s apartheid system. The settlements; for example, are “Jewish settlements” simply because ONLY JEWS are allowed to live there. Non-Jewish citizens (christians & moslems) are forbidden access to them.

Tony, I don’t see much or any sympathy or love coming from your direction towards the traumatized victims, the Palestinians, of this tragic conflict.

Why a “democratic” Israeli prime minister ordered his soldiers to break the bones of Palestinian children throwing stones?

How can one understand why Jews in Jerusalem throw their garbage onto the roads and back yards of their Palestinian neighbors & spit at them?

Why masked jewish settlers launch murderous/killing attacks on “unarmed” Palestinian farmers, women and children?

Why is it that Jewish attackers who have committed criminal acts against Palestinians almost never have to worry about being prosecuted; they walk away scot free?

Let us “focus” on the real issues of this tragic conflict. We are not going to allow the “side track tactic” to take effect.

Edmund Burke(1729-1797):

“ALL THAT IS NECESSARY FOR THE TRIUMPH OF EVIL IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING”

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By Barry, October 13, 2006 at 2:17 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Funny how noone in America wants to merge with Mexico or Canada, give up American culture and society and merge with anyone else who feels like it.  Funny how the answer to the USSR wasn’t to merge into a single soviet union, but to seperate so that people can have countries that relate to theit cultures and peoples.

You want Israeli liberals, creators of a leading economy, start-up companies, and agricultural successes, to agree to merge with a bunch of homocidal killers who have been bombing our malls and coffee shops?

Peace means peace.  Look up the word in a dictionary.

Face the facts: there’s a reason why noone here is supporting a merged state—it won’t work.

The Arabs are in favor of killing all the Jews.  The Israelis are in favor of a peaceful 2-state solution with no terror.  I prefer the second.

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By Barry, October 13, 2006 at 2:06 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

More news from Frank and Robert’s buddies.  Amazing the kinds of actions that American liberals will support these days!


Al-Qaeda affiliate burns coffee shop in Gaza Strip
By Ali Waked

After the Palestinian branch of al-Qaeda took responsibility
for killing a senior Palestinian intelligence officer and
four of his escorts three weeks ago, the group again took
responsibility for violence in the Gaza Strip. Early Sunday
morning, Gunmen shot and set fire to an internet coffee shop
in Jabaliya in the northern Gaza Strip, causing massive
damage.

Sunday afternoon an announcement was made claiming that the
organization Islamic Swords of Justice, identified as an
affiliate of al-Qaeda are responsible for the incident.

In the organization’s announcement, it was stated that
burning the coffee shop is “part of a series of actions
aimed at fighting corruption and the corrupt. During the
holy month of Ramadan, our fighters have started operating
on the holy land and in the early morning placed a bomb
weighing ten kilograms (22 pounds) next to the coffee shop,
ridden with corruption and characteristic of the unethical
activities that have increased in recent days. Jihad
fighters detonated the bomb as a message to all the corrupt
people.”

According to the gunmen, the owner of the establishment was
pre-warned that his business serves as a center for
unethical activity and that he should straighten out the
situation before it is too late. The organization warned
that they would not spare anyone they deemed unethical and
that their “swords will have no mercy on them.”

Last week, a video was published by Palestinian al-Qaeda in
which the organization took responsibility for the murder of
Colonel Jed Tayya, a senior Palestinian intelligence
officer. Tayya, assassinated along with four officers
escorting him, was accused in the al-Qaeda video of being an
agent of the Mossad and the CIA, who gathered intelligence
and tracked down jihad fighters on the land of Palestine.

The organization promised to continue to target
collaborators in the Palestinian Authority elite.

In addition to the two announcements, leaflets have been
published recently by al-Qaeda and organizations affiliated
with al-Qaeda, such was the Islamic Mujjahadin Army that has
taken responsibility for firing at Israeli and Palestinian
targets and the Army of Islam Organization that purportedly
participated in the kidnapping of Gilad Shalit.

Among the Palestinian elite, there is increasing concern
that al-Qaeda is becoming a major actor in the Gaza Strip
within the conflict between Hamas and Fatah. Even
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas warned a few months ago
that he has information indicating that the organization is
active within PA territory.

Another sign of al-Qaeda’s rise in strength and popularity
is that pictures of the organization’s former leader in Iraq
Abu Musab al-Zarqawi are plastered on walls throughout the
Gaza Strip. After his assassination by the Americans a few
months ago, symbolic vigils in his honor have even been
erected, and the kind of hat he used to wear has become a
real hit among Gazan and West Bank youth.

A Palestinian security figure said to Ynet that the PA is
concerned that if the conflict between Fatah and Hamas isn’t
solved, the Palestinian leadership and the international
community will have to deal with an increased presence of
al-Qaeda and its affiliated organizations in the region.

“If there isn’t a diplomatic breakthrough, it is not for
sure that Fatah will be the first alternative to the Hamas
regime. We see a lot of young people, even those who were in
Hamas, getting closer to more extremist organizations and
becoming potential candidates for al-Qaeda and its various
branches,” the security figure said.

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By ed_tru_lib, October 12, 2006 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment
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It really is a waste of time bothering to post here, but I’ll give it the ol’ yeshiva try one last time. The “logic” of the terrorist-lovers is like the repuglican who said “at least Foley/Hastert etc didn’t kill anybody” A free, democratic Israel, that had not had to live in a state of immediate defense for six decades, with Knesset members of whatever race or religion who would of course swear their allegiance to Israel, or be the traitors to their country, that their real-life counterparts are to the human race, would be a viable secular state, like any other true democracy, not a Jewish or “palestinian” (whoever the hell they really are anyway) state. 

You come to my home to kill me. Instead I successfully defend myself and my home and family and kill you. Gee, one of my bullets flew out the window and also killed the slimebag who was just sitting in the getaway car, and actually believed (yeah, right) that you were there to just rob or rape. Or recover your property-funny now its a house; when you camped here occasionally, LONG after my ancestors FIRST did,  it was a desert.

Anyway, sorry-I’m still a hero, not a murderer. And you’re the only good kind of terrorist-a dead one. And looks like your friend backed the wrong camel. That’s life in the big sand dune.
There is NO reasoning with people who hijack airplanes, and only murder thousands because they failed to murder tens of thousands. Or those who send them. Or those who “inspire” them. ( how many virgins in heaven were they each going to get again Tony?-aren’t you PROUD to be associated with such a noble, and rational cause-is “Rev” James Dobson ONE PER CENT THIS INSANELY EVIL?—at least, unlike the “palestinian’s” Iranian slavemasters, he doesn’t have oil, or nukes)
Israel lives as much because of the unimaginably evil souls who would try to destroy it, as for its own heroism in its own defense. No amount of ludicrously naive defense of terror, politely stated, will any be of any more value than any other form of saying “sieg heil”

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 12, 2006 at 7:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #28312 by Barry on 10/11

This long list of exceptions to the main thrust of the movement against the destruction and occupation of Palestine by the Zionists to create a special state for Jews shows that you can present no argument that supports the crimes against the Palestinian people. You cannot show the extreme Islamist position of Iran, or the extreme position of Hamas or Hizbolah to justify the crimes of Israel. You can’t show Biblical text to support a claim that God gave it to them, so they have a right to murder innocents in order to take up that gift from God. You can’t show quotes out of context by Chomsky, Finklestein, et al, to justify the crimes of Zionism. You could not quote Ahmadinejad to justify killing of innocents. If Ahmadinejad can justify killing of Jews because the Holocaust is a lie, can you justify killing of Palestinians because they deny that God gave Palestine to Jews?

Get with the simple justice we are presenting. All of the writers in this discussion who present a position against the destruction of Palestine 1948 and the occupation of the remnant of Palestine 1967 do so in a balanced way. We recognize the right to Jews to defend themselves against murder and destruction by suicice bombers. We also recognize the right of Palestinians to reclaim their lost lands. We show that Jews would have more rights under a secular government with equal rights for all than they have under a Jews first state of Israel. You may not understand this, that a Jew has a right to convert to Islam. And, a Muslim has a right to convert to Judaism, if Jews would accept him. Since Islam is a relationship between an individual human and his God, every person has a right to be a Muslim. No human can reject that decision when it is made with God as the witness. So, Jews in Israel retain their rights by remaining Jews. Any Jew who exercised his human right to convert to Islam would lose those secular rights in the Jewish State of Israel.

But, that is not the issue here. This is not an invitation for Jews to become Muslims, Christians or atheists. It is an appeal for justice and human rights only. It is not just for Palestinians. Justice is for all mankind. That is the thrust of the advancements in human freedom made by true democracies. True democracies accept every citizen as equal before the law. It does not expect that every citizen would use that freedom fairly, or wisely. But, such democracies would prevent those who disagree with Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, American Native Spiritualists, from imposing their beliefs on others and denying others their rights because they deny the belief that God favors Jews.

The ancestors of Palestinians are mostly Canaanites. Canaan was the youngest son of Ham, son of Noah, according to the Bible. Ham was brother of Shem. Semites are descendants of Shem. Some of the Palestinians are also Semites, having descended from Shem through Ishmael, son of Abraham. The Prophet Mohammed, PBUH, descended from Ishmael, so is a Semite. Though Muslims are not all Arabs, and not all Palestinians are Muslims, many are and adhere to the belief that God does not favor any race over others. Jews can claim that any person who can trace his ancestry back to Shem in a matrilineal succession is a Jew (Recognizing that verification of maternity is easier than paternity). They may point out that Ishmael’s mother was Egyptian, thus not Semite. Any biologist would accept paternity equally with maternity. I doubt that any Biblical author, even with the inspiration of God himself, is any authority on biology or human reproduction.

So, let us discount Islamic claims, Christian claims, and Jewish claims of favor by God. Let us accept the only criteria we know to be without prejudice or pride—human rights, justice, and decency.

I know the writings of Chomsky, Finklestein, and a host of others. They happen to be Jews, but there are many Jews who recognize the error in the belief that there should be a Jewish state of Israel excluding rights of other people who lived on that land for generations. Zionists are for Jews and Islamists are for Muslims. There are also Christians who would have Christ come back and reign as King over everyone. All are out of touch with modern human rights and truth. Truth rules against all distortions of belief and truth alone could set us all right.

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By Robert, October 12, 2006 at 7:15 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RE: Comment #28333 by Barry on 10/11 @ 2:12PM
  Comment #28343 by Barry on 10/11 @ 3:05PM


I am providing references to my comment #28266 on 10/11:


- The Birth Of The Palestinian Refugee Problem, 1947-1949. This book written by the famous Israeli historian, Benny Morris.

This book is full of details based on declassified Israeli, Haganah, and zionist documents.

- Robert John and sami Hadawi, The Palestine Diary, vol.I (1914-1945), (New world Press, New York, 1970), p. xiv.

- Laqueur, Walter, The Israel Arab Reader (New York, Bantom Books, 1976).

- British Government, Palestine: report on Immigration, Land Settlements and Development-Cmd.3686.

_ Moore, John Norton, The Arab-Israeli Conflict (Princeton, University Press,1974).

_ British Government, The Political History of Palestine (Memorandum to the United Nations Special Committee on Palestine) (Jerusalem, 1947).

Here is a link related to the plight of the Palestians. Since you live in Israel…its in Hebrew.

http://www.nakbainhebrew.org

One more link as what some Israelis are currently feeling and acting.

http://www.gush-shalom.org

==================================================

“As I have said, I’m a big supporter of a Palestinian state.”

“I dream of the day that the Palestinians will take land and make a state.”

Barry;

Are you a big supporter of a Palestinian state to pre-1967 as per UN resolution 242?

(That is full/complete Israeli withdrawal from all occupied territories including East Jerusalem.)

Your comments are general in nature. Can you be more specific?

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By Tony Wicher, October 12, 2006 at 10:42 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #28343 by Barry on 10/11 at 3:05 pm

Barry, you really seem to be listening, so please consider this seriously: the approach of full integration (one state) rather than segregation (two state) would satisfy all Palestinian demands and be acceptable not only to them but to Arabs, Muslims and the rest of the world. The whole world would support such a movement. The United Nations would support it. A decent U.S. adminstration (as soon as we can get one) would support it. Of course there would still be extremists on both sides, prepared to act violently, who would not accept integration. But they would be marginalized and become the enemies of peace and security in the eyes of the majority of the people. The resulting secular democratic state would be a triumph for all humanity.

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By Kwagmyre, October 11, 2006 at 10:31 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Posted by ed_tru_lib:

“To the other posters, particularly the 1 who’s feelings were apparently hurt by my ignoring, or to be honest, just not even noticing him, to Hell with you. I’m only in a position to refer/speak to you with disgust and contempt for your lies and evil here.”

Well, at last I’m being acknowledged by you and rightfully feel honored by your “position” to characterize me as something beneath your esteemed “disgust and contempt”.

And as deluded as you appear with your “gift” for puerile insults, you will hopefully awaken from your noxious nonsense, Mr./Ms. ed_ucate_tru_thfully_ to lib_erate!

Keep up then good work!

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By Tony Wicher, October 11, 2006 at 8:51 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Barry,

I dream of the day that you along with a majority of the Israeli people will finally realize that living in a Jewish state is not a viable solution to your problems, repatriate those Palestinians and become a secular democratic state. What about it? We are men of good will who do not want to annihiliate anybody. We just want you to amend your constitution. I am convinced it would work better than any sort of partition. Look at that wall that started this blog. Isn’t it ugly?

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 11, 2006 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #28313 by ed_tru_lib on 10/11

Hey ed, you let me down. You have a streak of decency in you after all. I had hoped that you would keep the acid comments going. They were helping a lot.

“There have been freely elected Arab/Islamic members of the Knesset since 1968-had the enemies of humanity surrounding Israel never attacked again-can anyone seriously doubt Israel today would be a multi-cultural, multi religious state, more than likely with a freely elected “palestinian” majority.”

If that were true, certainly there could be peace in Palestine and a Palestinian elected majority because there would be no Israel, only a Palestine. No Jewish state, no Islamic Republic of Palestine.

The only problem with that scenario is that for sure, there would be roving bands of Zionist terrorists like before 1948. I do not know if there would be any Zionist suicide bombers because Jews are so miserable that they cannot imagine a paradise. Instead of 72 virgins awaiting them in a Zionist paradise, they could promise that the Zionist suicide bomber could rape a few virgins before exploding himself. Zionists do not have an ethic of dying for Zionism, they would rather make Muslims die for Islam. And funerals for Jewish heroes is too expensive. Unless they could get someone else to pay for Jewish burials, they would have to end the war.

Though you still have your facts mixed up, you have actually toned down your comments. I hope that is not because I told you that you are helping our cause.

Please go back to your true nature. When you yearn for a Palestinian majority, you harm our cause because we need ignorant bigots picking on us to be able to show a distinction of human rights. You have to show your blood lust and lack of respect for true democracy. You have to believe that God hates everyone except Jews. Now that gets quite a few votes for us because there are more non-Jews than there are Jews in the universe.

Have you turned in your IDF uniform yet?

On the serious side, thanks for the milder comments. You could qualify for honorary membership in the human race. Hell we might even accept you as human after all. Welcome to this forum.

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By Tony Wicher, October 11, 2006 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Response to Comment #28266 by Robert on 10/11 at 10:08 am

RE: Comment #27772 by Barry on 10/09 @ 2:53AM.

“And as for Israel taking away Arab homes in 1948, baloney. There was no country here, there was the British Mandate and the UN created the state of Israel. Millions of Arabs stayed in the state of Israel and have been living here since, and living as well as many Israeli towns. The creation of the state of Israel was the creation of a government, not the removal of any previous government.”

You have been called a liar, a compulsive liar, ignorant & your comments/propaganda have been described as “damn lies” & others by several of the people in this forum.

There you go again with more of the same line of damn lies & zionist propaganda.

The majority of the people on this forum seem to be well informed, knowledgeable regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict ;therefore, your attempts to deceive us with your zionist propaganda is falling on deaf ears.

Robert,

You and I agree on practically everything about Israel/Palestine, but I do not agree with calling Barry a liar, or saying that he is “attempting to deceive us with his Zionist propaganda”, or that what his is saying is falling on deaf ears. Maybe you have made yourself deaf to views that you oppose, but to me the trick is precisely to listen to such views, really listen to them. Of course, there is always the danger that you might change your mind. But then again, this is the only way you can possibly expect Barry to listen to you and possibly change his mind. If you don’t care if he listens, why say anything at all? If you do care, you cannot expect to get anywhere by calling him a pathological liar who is deliberately attempting to deceive us. It would work much better to begin with the assumption that Barry sincerely believes what he says. We disagree with him. We think we are seeing things the way they are from the universal human standpoint, and that his view is skewed by Zionist propaganda. But it is propaganda he sincerely believes. Who among us can say for sure that his own mind is completely free of all such beliefs, all propaganda? We do our best, but we have all been indoctrinated practically from birth.

As I said in a previous comment, the problem with Zionists is not that they are pathological liars trying to deceive us, but that they are suffering from the severe trauma of the Holocaust. You talk to any of them and it always comes down to the idea that they are surrounded everywhere by Nazi-like enemies who are trying to destroy them. There is no resemblance whatever between any Palestinians or Arabs or Muslims and Nazis, but not from their traumatized point of view. In order to help them, they need our love and our sympathy, not our oppobrium.

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By Justice4All, October 11, 2006 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s funny how morality suddenly starts to kick in. It is either you think you are too smart for everybody or that the rest are dumb. Either way, this thinking is pathetic and shows a great deal of naivety.

You lower your standards by initiating unwarranted personal attacks and throwing accusations on everybody on this forum in an attempt to side track from the main issue and when that tactic failed, you’re suddenly the custodian of righteousness and integrity and now claiming higher ethical and moral standards. LOL.

Again, to set the record straight, this particular forum is not about left vs. right, Democrat vs. Republican or Jew vs. Muslim as you claim; it is about the pursuit of human justice and morality. Your so-called democracy has been occupying Palestine and demeaning the Palestinians for decades now. This is the longest occupation in modern history. You can keep going around in circles trying to deviate from the main topic but the underlying fact remains the same: Israel is an OCCUPPIER and it needs to get out of Palestine and leave the Palestinians alone. Period.

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By Barry, October 11, 2006 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel has a less problematic past than any other country on the planet, for a simple reason: It was created by British Mandate and UN decision and ratification.

The US took land from Indians, and fought a war against the rest of the free world to establish itself.  But noone questions its existance.  England?  Hah!  Look at the history with the Irish.  French?  How many revolutions and rebels and people with oppressed freedom!  Russia?  Don’t even start. 

But noone questions these countries rights to exist because bottom line, they’re existing countries.  They need to do right by people, but no country is expected to wipe itself off the planet.

As I’ve said, I’m a big supporter of a Palestinian state.  Israel will do better for the Palestinians than any other country in the world will ever do for the people who claim disenfranchisement.  But it can’t be with terror and it can’t be something that will wipe Israel, an existing country, off the map.

I dream of the day that the Palestinians will take land and make a state, and stop terror, and allow Israeli children to stop defending our country against attacks against our civilians.

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By Barry, October 11, 2006 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robert, you’re pathetic.

First of all, if your level of intellectual discussion is insult and name-calling, you’re not worth my time.  I thought we were at least all intelligent people here, and could discuss intelligently.

Second, almost all of what I’ve written in all posts on this list have to do with Israeli sentiment now.  Since I live here, and am describing sentiment of contemporary Israelis, noone who doesn’t live here can call me a liar.  When I describe how Israelis are feeling and thinking, I’m a direct observer.

Third, regarding the percentages you quote, what’s your source?  I can break out books and sources and see whether your sources have any validity, but without your quoting sources there’s no mature discussion going on.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 11, 2006 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #28266 by Robert on 10/11

Robert, one correction to your comment.

“The majority of the people on this forum seem to be well informed, knowledgeable regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict; therefore, your attempts to deceive us with your Zionist propaganda is falling on deaf ears.”

The Zionist propaganda is not falling on deaf ears. We are not deaf, and we are not blind, ignorant or stupid. We hear it, we see through it, we do not ignor it, and we are opposed it.

The effort is to advance the cause of human rights, not specifically Palestinian rights. After all Palestinian rights are the same as Jewish rights—no more, no less. It is the manner in which the Zionists took Palestine that we object to and the way they are holding on to it.

Zionists are anti-human rights. They place Jewish rights over human rights. The problem is not a homeland for the Jews, but the formation of a ghetto state for Jews on the land stolen from Palestine. The solution is not to kill enough Palestinians to cause the rest to flee, but to recognize that a real time recognition of rights and remedies is required. Right now, the world owes the Palestinians their human rights. Israel and the major nations who instigated the miscarriage of justice owe compensation to the Palestinians who lost their homes and other assets in Israel. Finally, Palestinians have a right to return and claim what is theirs.

Thank you for the specifics.

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By ed_tru_lib, October 11, 2006 at 1:02 pm Link to this comment
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Barry-please keep fighting the good fight, even on a left-wing extremist website like Truthdig (and whether any one believes it or cares)-it is heart breaking for me to see Bob Shear, one of the last great journalists in the Sinclair/Krock/Murrow/Cronkite/Kuralt/Shear tradition sell out to the looneyleft, nadertraitor, anti-freedom in the mideast “school” of leftpander “journalism”
Tony-again, a pleasure to see someone who can disgree even on such overemotional gut-issues as these and keep his respect for himself and others well-expressed. O and of course I’m happy, and not totally surprised, to learn you were not a nadertraitor. But Tony there was, and still could be, the VERY political entity you long for in the mideast. It is called “Israel”, and the freely elected members of its parliament are of all races and religions. But they, as us all, are humans living on planet earth, and have had to make certain “adjustments” to the practical application of their applied committment to freedom for all, in a world, not of their choosing, where as i said earlier, EVERY MINUTE OF EVERY DAY IS A MINUTE SUCH AS THOSE ON WALL STREET BETWEEN THE FIRST AND SECOND PLANES ATTACKING, E X C E P T - THEY KNOW THE SECOND PLANE IS COMING. There have been freely elected Arab/Islamic members of the Knesset since 1968-had the enemies of humanity surrounding Israel never attacked again-can anyone seriously doubt Israel today would be a multi-cultural, multi religious state, more than likely with a freely elected “palestinian” majority.
To the other posters, particularly the 1 who’s feelings were apparently hurt by my ignoring, or to be honest, just not even noticing him, to Hell with you. I’m only in a position to refer/speak to you with disgust and contempt for your lies and evil here. The monsters you support have, and always will, expect that contempt for evil to be put into application, in the form of national self-defense. Shalom Alechiem/Asalaam Aliekhaam; Peace and Happy Suhkkas to all.

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By Barry, October 11, 2006 at 1:01 pm Link to this comment
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Interesting article on leftists and terrorists:


“Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded.
Allah willing, before they die, they will experience
humiliation and degradation every day… Allah willing, we
will make them lose their eyesight, we will make them lose
their brains.”

Khaled Mashal, Hamas leader

“The vote for Hamas was actually a vote for peace.” John
Pilger, left-wing journalist and filmmaker
It would be difficult to imagine a clearer expression of
genocidal hatred than the ideology of today.s jihadist
armies. What is even harder to accept is that these
bloodthirsty killers, with their graphic incitement to the
massacre of millions of Jews, are admired and defended by
legions of intellectuals, journalists, agitators and
demonstrators on the anti-Zionist Left.
All sane observers understand that the official program of
Hamas, if implemented, would result in an epoch-making
bloodbath. One broadcast by Hamas activists announced: “My
message to the loathed Jews is that there is no god but
Allah, we will chase you everywhere! We are a nation that
drinks blood, and we know that there is no blood better than
the blood of Jews.”

But in the organs of the Israel-hating Left, we read that
the Hamas election victory is “the best news from the Middle
East for a long time”
(The Guardian).We read that it is time “to reinforce Hamas
resistance [to Zionist ideology]” and its “ethical cry to
the world” (CounterPunch).

The goal of “reinforcing Hamas resistance” is quite widely
shared in the anti-Zionist camp. Left-wing American
activists in the International Solidarity Movement openly
admit to collaborating with Hamas and Islamic Jihad. In the
Israeli communist journal News From Within, Jennifer
Loewenstein, who is currently ensconced in Oxford
University, urges that “Hamas, its allies and solidarity
activists abroad genuinely attempt to make a difference.”
Editor Michel Warschawski anticipates that the Hamas regime
will bring about “Palestinian unity in fighting the
Occupation.. It may provide new hopes and new confidence.”

As these writers know very well, the “resistance” that is to
be “reinforced” entails the calculated murder of small
children, pregnant women, the elderly and the disabled; the
bombing of buses, cafes and restaurants; and occasional
attempts to demolish whole skyscrapers.

Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah.s Hizbullah is another jihadist
faction much admired by today.s left-wing anti-Zionists.
Claiming responsibility for massacres of Jewish civilians as
far afield as South America, a Hizbullah statement pledged
“an open war until the elimination of Israel and until the
death of the last Jew on earth.”

Yet Norman Finkelstein . author of The Holocaust Industry
and other classics in the field of Jewish anti-Semitism .
can hardly find the words to express his enthusiasm. “I
truly honor [Hizbullah] for having inflicted an exceptional
and deserving defeat on their foreign occupiers,” he once
exclaimed. “It.s another wonderful chapter in the long and
painful struggle for human emancipation and even liberty and
certainly one that every human being can take inspiration
from.”

During the recent war, Finkelstein echoed the sentiments of
countless leftists who marched to the slogan: “We are all
Hizbullah.”

In his visit to Lebanon earlier this year, Noam Chomsky
justified Hizbullah.s military arsenal as a “deterrent to
potential aggression.”
Lebanese commentators were quick to express their disgust,
warning that failure to disarm Hizbullah would lead to war .
a prophesy that was fulfilled shortly afterward.

Was it in spite of this prospect, or because of it, that
Chomsky allowed himself to be filmed greeting the terrorist
commanders as long-lost friends? Could any parodist capture
the scene of the taxpayer-financed American Jewish professor
advising these murderers of Americans and Jews that instead
of surrendering their weapons they should “inform the public
and get them to understand your position” so that “they will
put pressure on the politicians” to capitulate?

Writing in the London Review of Books, Charles Glass was
impressed by Hizbullah’s ability to use rockets and suicide
bombers “intelligently, in conjunction with an
uncompromising political programme.” Critics promptly drew
his attention to the words of Sheikh Nasrallah: “If they
[Jews] all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of
going after them worldwide.”

Such statements, replied Glass, “are in all likelihood
fabrications.”
Surely the “intelligent” masterminds of rocket barrages and
suicide bombings could not possibly embrace such an
“uncompromising political programme.” After all, the editors
of the Lebanese Daily Starwere anxious to distance
themselves from the journalist who had originally recorded
Nasrallah.s outburst.

If true, that would be a shocking indictment of their own
professional standards, given that in the space of a year
they had published no fewer than 170 reports by the employee
whose veracity they supposedly did not trust. But Glass
would no more share this consideration with his readers than
he would mention the anti-Semitic bloodlust of Al-Manar, or
the Shiite scholar Amal Saad-Ghorayeb.s carefully documented
conclusion that for Hizbullah, “the Israeli Jew becomes a
legitimate target for extermination. And it also legitimizes
attacks on non-Israeli Jews.”

Even so, Charles Glass can hardly compete with his more
flamboyant radical colleagues in his enthusiasm for
terrorists and suicide bombers. For the widely read
columnist and documentary maker John Pilger . who ascribes
Britain.s Middle East policy to the nefarious machinations
of a single Jewish businessman . Hizbullah embodies
“resistance to rapacious power.humanity at its noblest.”

For the political firebrand George Galloway, Hizbullah
terrorists are “martyrs and heroes,” while Sheikh
Nasrallah.s “name rings in joy around the world.” The
sickening list of leftist apologists for Nazi-style
Jew-haters seems almost endless.

While the jihadists of Hamas and Hizbullah dream of a second
Holocaust, the ayatollahs of Iran are pursuing the means to
achieve it.
Representative of the “moderates” in the Iranian regime is
former president Rafsanjani, who predicts that “the use of a
nuclear bomb in Israel will leave nothing on the ground,
whereas it will only damage the world of Islam.” The
“extremists,” as everyone knows, take their cue from
President Ahmadinejad, with his assurance that “the Zionist
regime is headed toward annihilation.”

But few tyrants are so depraved that radical leftists will
not leap to their defense. Virginia Tilley, academic
proponent of the “one-state solution” to the “problem” of
Israel.s continued existence, believes that Ahmadinejad.s
words promise the sort of “profound political change” that
is “necessary to creating a just peace.”

Doubtless relying on her professional knowledge of Iranian
dialects, she maintains that Ahmadinejad.s threat to “wipe
Israel off the map” is correctly translated as a hope that
the Zionist regime will “vanish from the page of time” . the
“just peace” of her imagination. She also contends that
Ahmadinejad is not really a Holocaust denier, given that
“skepticism”
about the “Holocaust narrative” arises quite naturally if
the “narrative”
is used in support of Israel.

Noam Chomsky offers further insights. In his mental
universe, “Israel and the United States are both threatening
Iran with destruction [emphasis added].” The ayatollahs
would be “crazy” if they did not develop nuclear weapons to
counter the military threat from the West.

The British communist intellectual Alex Callinicos is also
certain of the correct ideological approach: “If Bush
attacks Iran tomorrow, which side are you on?” he asks. “I
would be on Iran.s but . as Lenin put it . I would refuse to
paint Ahmadinejad in communist colours; in other words, I
would be for an Iranian victory despite his anti-Semitic
rantings.”

Perhaps, in the annals of political lunacy, historians will
eventually discover a 1930.s leftist who was insisting on
the duty of all revolutionaries to side with the Nazi
regime, while cautioning that Hitler was not a communist and
that a Nazi victory would be desirable in spite of his
policies toward the Jews, not because of them.

If it seems that these are the isolated opinions of a few
individuals, albeit figures of some prominence, it is worth
pointing out that Britain.s Stop the War Coalition has
informed Iranian refugees that they will not be allowed to
speak since the movement “cannot allow any statement against
the Islamic regime in Iran from the platform.”

Although left-wing extremists refuse to tolerate Iranian
critics of the Iranian regime, respectable universities are
quite happy to offer a platform for meetings organized by
the most bigoted spokesmen of that very regime. In July I
had the memorable experience of attending such a conference
at the School of Oriental and African Studies in London.

The event had two main sponsors. The first was the Islamic
Human Rights Commission, described by journalist Melanie
Phillips as “the most conspicuous promoter of Khomeini
jihadism in the UK.” Its advisory board includes the likes
of Mohammed al-Massari, a Saudi exile with Al Qaeda
sympathies whose website implores Allah “grant his
mujaheddin victory”
over “the Jews, the Americans and the apostates.”

The second sponsor was the NEDA Institute, an Iranian body
whose main function seems to be the dissemination of
“research” that denies the Holocaust.

The theme of the conference was the need to do away with
Zionism. A newsletter distributed at the entrance applauded
Ayatollah Khomeini.s “arguments” for the destruction of
Israel. Speakers included three Marxist-Leninist writers
(Uri Davis, Michel Warschawski and John Rose) and a
notorious left-wing American Jew (Jeffrey Blankfort).
Apparently they were only too happy to offer their
intellectual services to the advocates of a second
Holocaust.

It must be stressed that the genocidal fanaticism of Hamas
and Hizbullah and their Iranian sponsors differs in no
significant respect from that of Al Qaeda. In the words of
bin Laden: “We are sure of our victory against the Americans
and the Jews as promised by the Prophet: Judgment day shall
not come until the Muslim fights the Jew, where the Jew will
hide behind trees and stones, and the tree and the stone
will speak and say, .Muslim, behind me is a Jew. Come and
kill him.. “

What is truly incredible is that some radical leftists are
so consumed with hatred that they are prepared to make
excuses for these mass murderers as well. Only three months
after the 9/11 massacres, CounterPunch published a revealing
interview with Norman Finkelstein:
“It.s payback time for the Americans,” he gloated, adding
that “we deserve the problem on our hands because some
things bin Laden says are true.”
Finkelstein kept a studied silence about the implication of
these thoughts for his fellow Jews.

Another line of argument was suggested by Noam Chomsky:
“It.s entirely possible,” he hypothesized, “that bin Laden.s
telling the truth when he says that he didn.t know about the
[9/11] operation,” and in any case bin Laden was
“courageously fighting oppressors, who are quite real,”
although regrettably his crimes were “extremely harmful” to
the Palestinian cause.

Not content with these observations, Chomsky traveled to
Pakistan, where he hastened to assist Al Qaeda.s recruitment
efforts by informing his audiences that the Bush
administration was planning to impose mass starvation on
neighboring Afghanistan.

The gold standard in collaboration with genocidal
anti-Semites was undoubtedly set by the radical lawyer Lynne
Stewart, convicted last year of providing material support
for the terrorism of Sheikh Omar Abdul Rahman. The so-called
“Blind Sheikh” was linked to the jihadist cell that tried to
massacre 250,000 people in the 1993 World Trade Center
attack.
The bombers expected that most of the victims would be Jews.

Stewart.s actions on behalf of her imprisoned client
included refusing to disclaim a fatwa inciting Muslims “to
fight the Jews and to kill them wherever they are.”

It is of no small significance that Stewart is acclaimed as
a martyr by her comrades at the National Lawyers Guild and
the Center for Constitutional Rights, not to mention
far-left media such as Z Magazine, CounterPunch and
Democracy Now.

In Britain, where I live, the anti-Zionist Left has broken
all records in its promotion of Jew-killers. So deep is the
malaise that a major national newspaper, The Guardian, has
seen fit to open its opinion pages to the jihadists and
their admirers. One fanatic (Faisal Bodi) managed to insert
a series of columns proclaiming that “Israel simply has no
right to exist”
and that “martyr-bombers” are “heroes defending the things
we hold sacred.”

Other op-ed contributors have included a well-known Hamas
ideologue, official leaders of Hamas, and a member of
Hizbullah.s executive committee. Neither these outrages nor
The Guardian.s countless libels of Israel and “Zionist” Jews
have evoked the slightest dissent from its politically
correct readership.

The British Left.s infatuation with jihadists has even
produced a new political party. In 2004, the country.s
leading Marxist-Leninist and Islamic extremist groups
announced the formation of RESPECT: The Unity Coalition,
which now functions as a national megaphone for
anti-Semites, Holocaust deniers and would-be destroyers of
Israel.

But is this development any more surprising than the public
political romance between Ken Livingstone, the leftist mayor
of London, and Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, the Middle East
hatemonger who demands the mass slaughter of Jews? Or the
insistence of the world-famous journalist Robert Fisk that
the Bush administration is controlled by “the Perles and the
Wolfowitzes and the Cohens,” and that “I.m amazed that
Muslims have been so restrained”?

The enthusiasm of today.s radical leftists for the genocidal
anti-Semites of the far right is not without precedent. The
opening of communist archives revealed that for decades the
Soviet bloc had tried to destabilize West Germany by
financing neo-Nazi violence. To embarrass its rivals on the
other side of the Berlin Wall, the Stasi created movements
such as the “Veterans of the Waffen-SS” and financed a
campaign by the “German Imperial Party” to “justify the need
for exterminating the Jews.”

These examples can be multiplied. It is tempting to
conclude, with Ecclesiastes, that there is nothing new under
the sun.

There is, however, an important difference. Yesterday.s
communists sponsored Nazis in the hope of discrediting their
enemies. Today.s ultra-leftists think that their alliance
with Nazis brings credit to themselves.

Paul Bogdanor is co-editor, with Edward Alexander, of The
Jewish Divide Over Israel: Accusers and Defenders
(Transaction, 2006). For more information about the role of
radical leftists in promoting terrorism and mass murder,
visit http://www.paulbogdanor.com/left.html.

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By Robert, October 11, 2006 at 10:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RE: Comment #27772 by Barry on 10/09 @ 2:53AM.


“And as for Israel taking away Arab homes in 1948, baloney. There was no country here, there was the British Mandate and the UN created the state of Israel. Millions of Arabs stayed in the state of Israel and have been living here since, and living as well as many Israeli towns. The creation of the state of Israel was the creation of a government, not the removal of any previous government.”


You have been called a liar, a compulsive liar, ignorant & your comments/propaganda have been described as “damn lies” & others by several of the people in this forum.

There you go again with more of the same line of damn lies & zionist propaganda.

The majority of the people on this forum seem to be well informed, knowledgeable regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict ;therefore, your attempts to deceive us with your zionist propaganda is falling on deaf ears.

Here are some facts regarding who & what was in Palestine before 1948 & other related data:

- When the Palestine problem was created by Britain in 1917, more than 92% of the population were Arabs (christian & moslem) and there were no more than 56,000 thousand Jews, with only a handful of zionists, living in Palestine. Christian, Moslem and Jews lived in peace with each other.

- Prior to 1948 , Palestinians (christians & moslems) owned & operated 93% of Palestine’s land.

- Prior to 1948 war, most Israeli Jews were persecuted & dispossessed European Jews who made a 1/3 minority of the population.

- The zionists launched an organized campaign to transport illegal jewish immigrants to Palestine to challenge the British & Palestinians against immigration. As an indication of the magnitude of the operation, 68,878 Jews were sent to Palestine as illegal immigrants between 1945 and May 1948.

- The central zionist dilemma was they wanted to create a predominantly jewish state in an area which was overwhelmingly not jewish.

- How do you create a jewish state in an area which is overwhelmingly not jewish?

Zionists called the process “by way of transfer”. That is, you kick the indigenous population out. You throw the Palestinians out. You can’t do that anytime, because there are moral problems and international problems. You have to wait for the right momment. The right momment comes in 1948. Under the cover of the war, you have the opportunity to expel the indigenous population. One can see clearly that the zionists intended to expel the Palestinians. The opportunity came along, and they did so. Those are facts.

- 80% of the Palestinian people were expelled from their cities, towns, villages, farms, and businesses. They have been kept out for the past 58 years.

- 95% of Israel’s lands (which is owned by Palestinian refugees per international law) is open for development to JEWS ONLY.

- For just being “Jewish” one can receive an automatic citizenship in Israel. Plus tens of thousands of $$$ in subsidies too.

- Palestinian Christians & Moslems refugees, who were born in Palestine and later expelled, cannot gain Israeli citizenship nor are they allowed to return to see their homes; that is if they have not been destroyed by the Israeli bulldozers.

- Israel issues national ID cards where the “religion” of the card holder is clearly shown in bold type.


“I have not heard of any recent development in any actual settlements”

Let me refer to facts from the Israeli “PEACENOW.ORG.il” regarding activities related to Israeli settlements in the occupied territories.

According “PEACENOW” in 2005,  more 15,000 new israeli settlers/immigrants have move to the occupied territories settlements. The # of settlers are increasing and they cannot move in the occupied areas without the expansions of existing ones plus building new ones.

Click for:

- PeaceNow’s latest reports

- Why are outpsts front page News, yet again.


http://www.peacenow.org.il/site/en/homepage.asp

http://www.peaceno.org.il/site/en/peace.asp?pi=51

“Lastly, for all those who have called me a settler, I live in mainstream Israel, and am a supporter of withdrawal of settlements if a true peace agreement is reached.”

Let me ask you if you are a supporter of withdrawal of some of the settlements or all of the settlements according to UN resolution 242?

Which country did you come from to settle wherever you are at right now?

I noticed that you evaded to answer my questions in my comment #26145 on 09/28.

For over 58 years, Israel’s denial of human rights to and oppression of Palestinians is still on-going.

The TRUTH must be told so that everyone can see the deceptions of the Zionists & their News media forums.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 10, 2006 at 9:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #28100 by Barry on 10/10

Barry, where have you been the past 60 years? No year has passed since then that someone hasn’t mentioned the Holocaust within my hearing. When I became aware of the crimes committed against the Palestinian people in the name of Jews everywhere, I was aghast at the audacity of the Zionists who proceeded to take the land away from the Palestinians. Perhaps you don’t mention it because, you, as I am, are appalled at the descendants of the Holocaust victims and their relatives who proceeded to carry out a form of genocide against another people. I mention it to bring attention to the crime against the Jewish people and to object to the crimes against the Palestinian people up to this day of killing by the IDF in the name of Jews everywhere. I am by no means the first to draw that parallel.

Precisely! Israel exists on its own merit as a country at this time in history and as such should abide by United Nations resolutions and decency of mankind to deal with the Palestinians as equals and as citizens of a one state of Palestine, Israel, or United Canaan. What the people of such a union call it is their choice, not yours or mine.

Note that every Native American has equal rights with me and with every immigrant and descendant of former African slaves. Under law we enjoy that equality established by the documents that brought this nation into being. No Jew, no Christian, no African spirit religion adherent, no native American, no Asian or any other citizen of this nation has rights before the law superior to mine.

Not so in Israel. Palestinians who live on the remnant of land that the Jews could not secure for themselves in 1948, but which they conquered in 1967, are under occupation for the past 39 years. It is a brutal occupation because the Palestinians did not lie down and surrender their rights to the Zionist state of Israel. Palestinians in Israel take at least 2nd place to any Jew from any other part of the world in total rights and citizenship. Zionists fear each Palestinian child born to an Arab citizen of Israel because if enough are born, Israel will be renamed Palestine. Though Jews will have equal rights with Christians and Muslims in New Palestine, it will no longer be a Jewish state. Oh yes! It will still be a homeland for the Jews just as America is still a homeland for Native Americans and is a New homeland for the children of black slaves. I agree with you that the means by which Israel come into existence does not invalidate their right to self defense, but neither does it invalidate the right of Palestinians to fight for the land they lost to the Jews in the Nakba.

See the model for one state for Palestine/Israel below by Hillel Barak. This model presumes a right of Jews to live in their promised land. It also presumes a right of Palestinians, both Christian and Muslim to live there also. That is where we part company. You, as a Jew do not accept that equality. And that is the nature of the problem.

I have no problem with American Natives living next door to me and their children going to my children’s schools and churches. I would not deny them freedom which is their right. Israel does deny Arabs the level of freedom in the theory that God denied that land for anyone except Jews and told Jews to drive out the inhabitants. I, too, know the Biblical passages. I wonder what God said about American Natives, South Sea Islanders, Hawaiians, Eskimos, Aleuts, etc? Not a word in my Bible or the Qu’ran, but they are American citizens with equal rights with me. Not even in the holy texts of the Hindus, the real Indians, with whom the earlier explorers confused the Native Americans. So it is not the issue of a right of self defense for Jews, but for Palestinians as well.

The Jewish gangs prior to 1948 were the initiators of terror when they massacred hundreds of Palestinian villages and killed farmers and their animals and drove them out to make room for the influx of Jews from all over the world. That is the cause of the violence against the Jews for what they did.

No vote of Palestinians was held to determine if they wanted a country of their own or if they would agree to give their homes, businesses, farms, orchards, and groves to the refugees from Hitler’s onslaught. When the United Nations plan to divide their homeland into two countries, one for Jews and a smaller one for all other Palestinians was advanced, Arabs everywhere objected. It was mainly the Palestinians and the Egyptians who actually fought to save Palestine from the enemy from without. Most Arab nations either did not have a regular army or had ill equipped forces that lost to the Jews who received the arms left behind by the departing Brits who gave up their Mandate. Palestinians received no arms from the Brits or from any of the modern nations. They had no state to organize an army for defense, having been under the heel of the Brits since World War One.

Israel was NOT establish in anywhere near half of Palestine. Only 22% of former Mandate Palestine is included in the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem. That has been made into Swiss cheese by Jewish settlements upon confiscated lands in that remaining Palestinian homeland now under siege by the state of Israel with the obvious intent to drive the remaining Palestinians out of the remaining land of the former Mandate Palestine. Indeed, it is the stated intent by certain political figures in the Knesset and IDF.

The stated intent of the most responsible and thinking Palestinians prior to 1948 was to retain all of Palestine as a secular nation of Jews and Arabs of all religious faiths and to share Jerusalem among them all as holy sites of each faith. It was the formation of a separate Jewish state that Palestine objected to. They did not want a separate state for themselves or for Jews. I have read the statement of Yasser Arafat in which he advocated a secular government for Palestine with equal rights for Jews, Christians and Muslims. Since he so clearly put it to writing, I assume he was serious. But, Israel took that as a threat to the Jewish State, not as a gesture toward peaceful joint homeland for Jews, Christians, and Muslims. Jews never fail to fail to understand real peace and cooperation. And it is true that Palestinians, as Abba Eban said, “...never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity…” to give up their rights to their own homeland.

In a secular state with equal rights Jews would own homes anywhere in Palestine/Israel, and so would Palestinians. Neither would pose a threat to the other to live in peace in their own land. Palestinians have long ago accepted the right of Israel to exist, as an equal partner in occupation of that land. Not as a dominant lord over their Arab brothers.

I know and converse with Arabs, Palestinians, Jews and Americans daily. I know what they say. A small part of Jews are for equal rights. Most are not. A large majority of Palestinians are for equal rights, some are not. Therein lies the problem. Jews have the guns, army and soldiers. Palestinians have human rights on their side. I am for human rights for Jews and Arabs. I will never give that up. You need to study the history in detail before you claim the distorted view of Israel as a bonifide democracy with equality for all. Just ask any Palestinian refugee in the world if he can go back to his home in Palestine. The answer will be no—Jews will not let him. But ask any Jew anywhere in the world if he can go to Israel, and he will answer yes. He can and many do.

The British Empire did not own Palestine. Palestine was run on a Mandate from the League of Nations set up after World War One. It was a mandate to prepare Palestine for self government. Britain violated that mandate by giving it to the Zionists. Upon the dissolution of the old League of Nations, the Mandate was nullified and a new Mandate was not issued by the successor of the League, the United Nations. Instead a divided land was proposed against the will of all the people of that land, including the Jews who had purchased land before World War Two and those who came on ships that brought the refugees from Europe. No person in that land, Jew, Christian, or Muslim voted for any plan. Jews drove out enough Christians and Muslims to allow them to grab the land for themselves and deny the right of return by the natives of over 2000 years.

You have propagandized your own mental process to believe in the lies manufactured by the Zionists. The facts are recorded in the history of that land, not in the pages of propaganda of Israel. Even the archives of Israel are producing some corrections to the popular images. No Arab archives exist for Palestine. All the documents were confiscated by Israel and are now in the hands of the government that has no desire that the truth be told. But the truth is coming out by bold investigators of the Jewish scholars. Check it out.

Forget a separate state, it is not viable. Jews have nothing to fear from Palestinians with equal rights and a right of return to their own lands or to compensation for those lands that cannot be returned to the rightful owners. The only thing Jews have to fear is the other side of the coin of Zionism, Islamism. Islamism cannot be resisted by killing Arabs. For every Arab killed two Arabs step up and one non-Arab joins the cause. Israel must stop killing Arabs and taking their land or suffer many more sleepless nights in fear of reprisals. Which way do you want it? I want you to sleep well, my Liege.  And I want every Palestinian and Jewish child to go to bed at night secure in the knowledge that no harm will come to her or that a Zionist or Islamist night mare will mar her sleep.

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By Kwagmyre, October 10, 2006 at 8:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Posted by Barry….....

“I’m a full supporter of creation of a Palestinian state as soon as terror stops, and so are almost all Israelis.”

Fine, but for justice to be properly served, Israel MUST also desist in its chronic campaign of terror against the Palestinians whether it be physical terror or emotional terror(which I equate here with the humiliation resulting from the checkpoints or generally speaking the Apartheid tone to the Israeli occupation)  This had been pointed out in earlier posts but all you come up with is this one-sided “requirement” that the Palestinians observe. 

If the Zionists as Jews are God’s chosen people then they must consider themselves “chosen” to act upon egalitarian principles where “terror requirements” are concerned.

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By Tony Wicher, October 10, 2006 at 8:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #28100 by Barry on 10/10 at 3:57 pm

It is the very partition of the land into Jewish and a non-Jewish sections that is the fundamental problem. To me it is kind of like Brown v Board of Education: “separate but equal” is a Jim Crow fiction that maintains racial discrimination. Only full integration will solve this problem. Partition never will. Don’t want your daughter marrying a Palestinian? Sorry! Get used to it!

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By Kwagmyre, October 10, 2006 at 8:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ed_tru_lib….......

Since you’re behaving so admirably in the ad hominem attack dog mode which has clearly come to characterize your style, why not include me as well because just like before when I commented on your earlier post #27443, your latest post is so rife with pathetic, totally revolting, even sickening personal attacks that it really has NO place where reasoned discussion or debate is concerned. 

Do you make it such a habit to resort to such pathetic tactics in other areas of your life beyond online forums?

Go ahead, I’m waiting patiently for your next attack!

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By Tony Wicher, October 10, 2006 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #28084 by ed_tru_lib on 10/10 at 1:36 pm


Hey, ed - I did not vote for Nader either. I also voted for Gore. I’m sure there are plenty of other things we can agree about. So please don’t say there’s no talking to me. Let’s keep talking until we understand each other.

You say Zionism is democratic. I say no state which calls itself a Jewish state (or an Islamic state or a Christian state) can call itself democratic. I am an “American” and I live in an American state protected by an American army. That is perfectly democratic, because my race, creed, color, ethnicity and religion have nothing to do with my being an American. I can be Jewish, Muslim, black, white, purple - it doesn’t matter. Jews in this country are Americans, protected by the same American army that I am, and by the same consitutional principles (currently being trampled on by the Bush administration - there is the REAL threat to all Americans, especially including Jews) that I am. But being a Jew has everything to do with being Israeli. Do you not see the difference?

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 10, 2006 at 7:29 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #28084 by ed_tru_lib on 10/10

Et tu bigot!

In case you missed it, I included Jews among those deserving of justice. I even include you as one who deserves the full effect of human rights and justice. As a human being, you have your rights and you have your wrongs. That is where justice comes in. I hope you get what you deserve.

BTW thanks again for advertising your stinking attitude and aggressive nature. I hope no kids are reading these comments. Ladies turn your eyes while this person rants.

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By Barry, October 10, 2006 at 3:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Who mentioned the holocaust?  Noone but you.

Israel is a country that exists on its own merit as a country.  Like the US, it’s always possible to debate history, but US history with the Indians doesn’t invalidate the US’s right to security and continued existance, and the same goes for Israel.

I’m a full supporter of creation of a Palestinian state as soon as terror stops, and so are almost all Israelis.  But until they create a state, they won’t have a state, because the Arab countries chose not to create a Palestinian state in 1948.

Lastly, Israel has no trouble with Arab citizens owning houses.  Too bad the Palestinians don’t feel that way about Jews living in areas that are likely to eventually become a Palestinian state.  But the establishment of Israel in half of the British mandate land didn’t take away houses, Arab Israeli citizens are proof of that.  The establishment of Israel was the establishment of a country (2 if the Palestinians had chosen to) in a land that was previousl British Empire controled.

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By ed_tru_lib, October 10, 2006 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Tony-you’re obviously a well-intentioned but utterly misguided person, and there really is no more “talking to” you than there is to likes of scum like goodman/gamahl/goebelles/whatever his lying evil coward’s name is—-
(Coulter?).
“Zionists” are not of the past but God/Allah/Buddha/Spirit of Life willing, ARE the future-liberal, UNviolent, UNevil, UNchild-murdering democracy-loving people who in Israel as in America will fight to the death for the freedom to FREELY live, worship, respect the great traditions of the past, and the best liberal expression of the human spirit for the future. Which Tony, of tragic necessity, in this REAL world, includes DEFENSE of oneself against the Hitlers, Stalins, Nassers, that iranian scumbag whose name I don’t care to remember, and even their pathetic minions like this “goodman” dipshit, not that his kind would ever have any power, but, well, some misguided type might be influenced to think, or vote a certain way, mistaking his views for human. And we all saw the horrific consequences of that in 2000 when just enough probably very decent but utterly wrong ( as history has proven) people voted for the Nader egomaniac instead of Gore, and gave us the Cheney?Rove/WTF do we do in the middle east or anywhere/ regime. Shalom.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 10, 2006 at 12:15 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #28035 by Tony Wicher on 10/10

Tony, thanks for that one, too. I have addressed that theory on a few opportunities. I don’t remember if I did in this site. I have long believed that the Jews have over reacted to the Holocaust. That is not to say it should be trivialized, just that it should not be used to justify brutality to another people. The Jews say, “Never again!” I, too, say, NEVER AGAIN!!! But, when I say it, I mean never, to any other people ever. When Jews say it, they seem to mean ‘never again to Jews, but we can do it to anyone who gets in our way.’ If that is not what they mean, whence violence to another people.

I am tired of having Jews, Zionists, and others limit the matter to the Holocaust as though Jews could kill enough Palestinians to atone for the death of a certain number of Jews by an European maniac earlier in the 20th century. Or that Palestinians should be driven off their land in order to create a ghetto nation for Jews so that Jews do not have to deal with non-Jews as equals on this planet.

Now, Jews who have suffered from the effects of the Hitler regime, take heart. Hitler was defeated and the surviving Jews were released by a military force that included my brother. I was too young to serve in that war, but I have served over 20 years fighting for democracy and human rights in a military not always attuned to that mission.

Jews, Zionists or whatever stripe of Jew you are, take heart. You can read in my comments that you are included in my fight for human rights and freedom. It is much to my sorrow that some of you are also included in my list of opponents in the universal fight for decency and equality. It is, also, much to my sorrow that some Palestinians do not get the message and that Islamism and suicide bombers are not answers to their plight. It is more than regrettable that America has sided against equality and human rights in Palestine and elsewhere and in favor of violence against the gentle people of Palestine.

I urge Zionist Jews to try to see beyond their prejudice and dogmatic reliance upon ancient myths of religion to understand that a democratic one state is possible with all people enjoying equality of rights and opportunities without regard to their political and religious orientation. I know from experience of a lifetime in America that legal rights do not erase prejudice any more than a contrition can erase the guilt of murder, or that a law against crime will prevent all crime. To sanction the Zionist theft of Palestine is to forgive the robber. It was done in the bold light of history. It cannot be covered up with a blanket of German anti-Semitism. And it is not anti-Semitism by me to condemn the taking of Palestine from the Palestinians by Jews. Jews who took Palestine condemned themselves by doing it. And anyone who condones the taking of Palestine condemns himself as a senseless bigot who does not deserve gentle treatment by peace lovers.

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By Tony Wicher, October 10, 2006 at 10:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment #27892 by Frank Goodman, Sr.  on 10/09 at 5:58 pm

Re: Comment #27716 by ed_tru_lib on 10/08
\Comment #27717 by ed_tru_lib on 10/08

Mr./Mrs./Ms./ whatever your name is.

Thanks again for reaffirming your insane view of the Palestine problem. In case someone did not get your message of hate, why don’t you repeat it? Not that I enjoy your blood lust boasting on this site, but because it is a welcome help to the decent approach of most of those who write here. BTW I am not the one spouting hate, it is you and the likes of you who never fail to fail to see the point of peaceful resolution of racial hate.

Frank and other anti-Zionists:

Yes, Zionism is a form of racism. That is the moral objection to it, and that is the reason why a two-state solution will never work. However, we must look deeper to reach understanding. I see Zionists as people suffering from PTSS - post-traumatic shock syndrome - the shock being the Holocaust. It left a deep mental wound that distorts their view of the world. Zionists do not see that they are racists. They are living in the past, thinking that they are defending themselves against the Nazis. They themselves must come to see this to resolve this conflict. The question is, how can we enlighten them? We must be like therapists. People do not want to see the truth, so they deceive themselves. A therapist who is trying to help them will expect to encounter resistance, never takes it personally, and will not respond to defensive behavior; he will try to go around or undermine a patient’s defenses to reach him as a human being, rather than do or say confrontational things that will make the defenses stronger and more rigid.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 10, 2006 at 9:16 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #27949 by Barry on 10/09

In my long comment to this I did not address specifics.

How in the world do you believe that peace can be had while taking the homes and land of people who have lived on it for thousands of years? The owners are bound to fight back with whatever means they have. So far those means are stones thrown by kids, diplomatic arguments, attempts to deny the occupiers a peaceful night’s sleep, and suicide bombers and a few snipers with ancient guns and crude rockets. The United Nations and the Unites States and other ‘civilized’ nations of the world will not help them in the legitimate return to their homes and land.

The decisions of the United Nations and the British Mandate were not legitimate in terms of political science. In fact they violate the very documents that created the United Nations and the British Mandate under the League of Nations. The United States of America also have documents that created our nation. Support of the Zionist cause is in violation of the basic premises of the American democracy of equal rights and religious freedom for all people.

The people of Palestine were not allowed to vote. Instead, they were forced to flee for their lives. Then the United Nations and powerful political nations of the world lined up to ratify the audacity.

You have never seen a word in this or any other venue where I have faulted any peaceful move. I simply call into question the peaceful intent of occupation and suppression of the Palestinian people and the taking of their land. Hateful to me is any idea of subordination of one peoples rights to another. It goes both ways. I also oppose Islamism, and a concept of a Christian Nation, as well as Zionism.

I am not the hateful one.

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By Tony Wicher, October 10, 2006 at 9:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Response to Frank, Barry and ed:

Gentlemen, it is wonderful to hear this frank exchange of views.  After all, perhaps we are all decent human beings, each coming to this dialogue with a point of view, and if we can understand each other we can come to see eye to eye on the basis of our common humanity. This is how conflict is resolved.

Frank, thanks a lot for the post about Hillel Barak’s one-state proposal. I had not heard of this, but it looks just exactly like what I had in mind. I will be contacting him, and I encourage every Palestinian and Israeli who really cares about peace to do likewise. I wonder, do you know about the Jewish group called the “Neturei Karta”? They claim hundreds of thousands of adherents, and trace their ancestry to Jewish communities living in Palestine at least since the middle of the 19th Century. They say they were happily living there side-by-side with Muslims and Christians until the Zionists got there. They regard Zionism as a perversion of Judaism, and refuse to fight in the Zionist army. It seems to me that they are be the natural nucleus of a peace movement on the Israeli side to advocate Barak’s one-state solution.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 10, 2006 at 8:54 am Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #27949 by Barry on 10/09

Barry, the hardest thing for a peace lover is to cozy up to a bigot and an aggressor to make peace. But, that must be done. I have tried reason, accurate history, rejection of suicide bombers and their acts (but not their intent to reclaim their own rights). I have described the atrocities and the bumbling carnage of human slaughter in the name of a cause suspect in its inception as a God given and sanctioned right to obliterate another people. I have cited Biblical carnage to show reasonable people that all in the Bible is not Kosher or Christian. I have appealed to the weight of evidence against supernatural assumptions of human events. I have cited the example of the United States as a political nation of a diverse cultural and racial makeup where equality is ensconced in law though not in custom and practice. I show that a native population, whose land was taken after they were driven out by a superior force of armed thugs posing as the US Army soldiers, became equal citizens of this land. I show that Christian sanctioned slavery of African people resulted in a portion of our population long denied equal protection of our laws and democracy but become equals with me and my Native American brothers, as well as Jews, Christians, atheists, agnostics, Buddhists, Hindus, and any other belief system imaginable.

I have proposed with many others a one state solution to the Palestine problem where Jews, Christians, Muslims and others could live in peace and commerce with one another in their own ‘Promised Land’ with equal rights and expectations.

I have tried humor in the sarcastic vein used on you and others who take your own concept of a super right over all others to have a Jewish ghetto state where Jews will be protected from the influence of non-Jews by keeping Jews walled in or non-Jews walled out to be ordained by the Lord God Almighty of us all. I take issue with any claim that God has favorites other than the best that mankind can sire and that human progress consists in isolation of one group from another.

My treatment of you and ‘whatchamacallim or -er’ is neither malicious nor kind. Yet I love you all in the best of human passion for peace and good will. God bless and please join me in the quest for peace and justice in this world. Help me to show that the suicide bombers and the IDF thugs who slaughter innocents are not welcome in this world. Help me to show that there is a human capacity for reason that overcomes emotional claims of superiority or God given favor. Let us create a truly peaceful world where children can go go bed at night everywhere secure in their knowledge that they are safe from other people and the ravages of nature raw. Where dreams of others are not presented as night mares for mankind.

Sorry, that I am sometimes dramatic in my presentation of the violence I learn of. I do not accept the claim of the Zionists that Palestine is their gift from God. I do accept that Jews, as human beings, have equal rights with me and every other citizen of this world regardless of the political jurisdiction in which we live, or their mental capacity to see the reason. Though I do not accept the Christian belief in a Savior-God born of a virgin human female, I do tolerate their right to believe that. Though I do not accept the Jewish claim to be the ‘Chosen People of God’, I do accept their right to believe that—not their right to slaughter Palestinians to get it. Though I do not accept the atheist or agnostic positions, I accept their right to their beliefs or lack of. We are human beings. As such, we owe to each other our trust, our respect, our care, our cooperation in our mutual best interest, which is peace on Earth and good will. And we do not need the right to kill each other on sight.

The bomb is mightier than the sword, the pen is mightier than the bomb, but the WORLD WIDE WEB will catch everyone who gets in the way of peace and freedom. And the spider of international justice will devour the criminal mind. Six billion keyboards is the key to peace in this world by presentation of truth and consequences to attain reconciliation and peace. Let the fight for peace and human justice proceed.

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By Justice4All, October 10, 2006 at 4:53 am Link to this comment
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Video - Family without electricity
http://www.btselem.org/english/video/200610_Gaza_Electricty_sewing_workshop.asp

Since Israel bombed the Gaza power plant, on 28 June 2006, the lives of the Habil family, owners of a sewing workshop, have revolved around the few hours a day in which the electricity supply is renewed.


Video - Hospital without electricity
http://www.btselem.org/english/video/200610_Gaza_Electricty_a_Shifa_hospital.asp

Since Israel bombed the Gaza power plant, on 28 June 2006, the lack of a steady supply of electricity has severely hampered the running of the hospital. Patients wait many hours for treatment, machines break down, and laboratory activities are disrupted.

  1.4 million Gazans still without electricity twelve hours a day  

Israel must finance the rehabilitation of the power plant it bombed in the Gaza Strip. This is one of the conclusions of B’Tselem’s new report, Act of Vengeance, which describes and analyzes the harsh effects of the Israeli Air Force’s destruction of the power plant in June. B’Tselem states that the bombing was illegal, and calls on the government to finance upgrading the infrastructure for transferring electricity from Israel to the Gaza Strip; to reinstate legislation permitting individuals and entities harmed by the bombing to sue Israel for compensation; to open criminal investigations against the persons who planned and carried out the attack, with the intention of prosecuting them; and to prohibit the IDF from attacking civilians and civilian objects.

Some three months after the bombing, 1.4 million Gazans remain without a steady supply of electricity. The power stoppages significantly affect the level of health services they receive. The inability to refrigerate food has increased the risk of food poisoning. The water and sewage systems, which rely on a regular supply of electricity, have been severely impaired, with most city dwellers receiving water for two to three hours a day. B’Tselem warns that the sewage system in the northern Gaza Strip is liable to collapse and flood neighboring communities with raw sewage.

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By Justice4All, October 10, 2006 at 4:47 am Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #27949

Compulsive liars tend to repeat their lies over and over again hoping they would eventually believe them. You are repeating the same old boring rhetoric you have been reciting that nobody believes anymore including, possibly, you.

It is time that you and people like you face the truth and the truth is plain and simple: After almost 40 years of brutal domination, Israel is still occupying Palestine; Israel is still oppressing the Palestinians and Israel is still waging ruthless war on Palestine and Lebanon, all in the name of false peace. You need to wake up and face the truth.

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By Barry, October 9, 2006 at 11:32 pm Link to this comment
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Frank, you’re incredible, and it’s great to see you doing this to someone besides me!

Someone wrote:  “not all Jews are zionists. Not all zionists are Jews. The vast majority of both, within and without Israel simply want all nations in the region to be able to live in the secure peace Rabin and Sadat envisioned.”

and you call that a “message of hate.”

You can keep on saying that I, and the above poster, are hateful because we say that Israel can defend itself against bombs on busses.  You can justify bombs on busses as a legitimate reaction to Palestinians disliking the decision of the UN and the British Mandate.  Jews and Israelis will continue to hope and pray for peace but will have to defend our lives.

Who’s the hateful one?

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 9, 2006 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #27716 by ed_tru_lib on 10/08
    \Comment #27717 by ed_tru_lib on 10/08

Mr./Mrs./Ms./ whatever your name is.

Thanks again for reaffirming your insane view of the Palestine problem. In case someone did not get your message of hate, why don’t you repeat it? Not that I enjoy your blood lust boasting on this site, but because it is a welcome help to the decent approach of most of those who write here. BTW I am not the one spouting hate, it is you and the likes of you who never fail to fail to see the point of peaceful resolution of racial hate.

I know the Palestinians far better than you do. I also publish my comments under my own name, which sounds Jewish, but is not. Quite a few Jews have appropriated that name, which originated in Wales.  That is probably in an attempt to claim to be Christians to avoid the Inquisition. I guess I do not blame them for that. It seems a good thing to do like what Maimonides did when he escaped the Inquisition in Spain by joining a departing Muslim family on a trip to North Africa and thence to Alexandria in Egypt where he produced some of his best writing in Arabic. Maimonides was wise in another way, in that he corresponded with Thomas Aquinus and Averoes. Aquinus was Christian and Averoes was Arab Muslim.

I will end this with another invitation to you to write some more of your crap. Did I arouse your anger enough to get the bile flowing? Shoot! Just in case you would believe that I am Palestinian, I am not. So, you see, you are wrong in assuming that I am Jewish and you would be wrong to assume that I am Palestinian. Let us just say that I am a decent human being who wants to see a peaceful resolution of a world problem in the formation of a multi-cultural country of two nations living and working together with common cause and concerns. It beats the specter of Jewish death squads executing old men, women, and children in their attempt to clear their ghetto state of all Arabs and other non-Jews. BTW I also condemn the Islamists suicide bombers who represent the other side of the hate syndrome which they got from the Zionists. So, you see, I disapprove of some Palestinians and approve of some Jews who have peaceful intent. I don’t even hate you, as you note that I thank you for your help in bringing out the real intent of the Zionist movement to drive all non-Jews out of Palestine so that they can keep it Jewish and call it Israel instead of, for instance, United States of Canaan.

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By Tony Wicher, October 9, 2006 at 3:40 pm Link to this comment
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Replay Comment #27716 by ed_tru_lib on 10/08 at 4:00 pm

Hey, ed - thanks a lot. It’s great to hear your perspective. It helps round out my view. I also say that hate is hate and it doesn’t matter what form it takes. But you know, in the same way I say that the slaughter of the innocent is the slaughter of the innocent, and it doesn’t matter who does it. That is why I do greatly admire the Amish in this respect. It is NOT a matter of denying that self-defense has its place. I have absolutely no doubt that any Amish person would have done what anyone else would have done to protect their children. What I and the rest of the world admire them for is their forgiveness. They do not carry the wound with them, saying “those who did this to us shall never be forgiven” - as Zionists do. If Zionists would do with the Palestinians as the Amish did, repatriate them all and treat them as as much part of themselves as any Jew - then they will have peace. It is ironic but a truth that follows from human nature, that as long as they say they must have a separate Jewish state in order to be secure, so long will their insecurity continue.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 9, 2006 at 1:03 pm Link to this comment
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Here is the one state solution to the Palestine/Isreal problem:

Hillel Barak’s call


The Israeli-Palestinian Conflict: 
A New Political Program For The Israeli Left

1. Introduction:
• The purpose of this document is not to provide a wide, in depth, overall analysis of the conflict and its history.
• Although there is a large temptation to do so, this document will not attempt to suggest actions that deal primarily with the immediate (here & now) symptoms of the political problem.
• The purpose of this document is to formulate a framework for a long-term strategy, one that will deal with the essence of the political problem.

Our work as political activists should take form on two parallel levels:
1. The short rage – dealing with the everyday manifestations of the conflict.
2. The long range – dealing with the essence of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.
The type of short-range activities, as well as their content and form, should be based on a long-range plan and framework of operation. This is necessary if we expect our actions to be constructive and effective.


2. The collapse of the traditional political program of the Israeli left as the reason for its current paralysis:

The breakdown of the Camp David and Taba negotiations officially marked the failure of the Oslo process that had been “on death’s bed” for quite some time. The events that took place around the eruption of the El-Aksa Intifada, on both sides of the green line, totally undermined the traditional program of the Israeli left.

These events confirmed that we will never be able to achieve a stable peace in our area unless we are able to provide a suitable solution to the following essential issues: the Palestinian refugees, the Palestinians who are Israeli residents, the future of Jerusalem, and the issue of human rights & democracy for all residents of the area.

The traditional approach of the Israeli left was characterized primarily by the concept of the establishment of a Palestinian state beside the state of Israel, based on the pre-1967 borders, removal of the settlements, and Jerusalem as the capital of both states (in one form or another). As we will illustrate below, this approach to solving the conflict is essentially incapable of providing a suitable solution to the above-mentioned issues.

This approach defined the borders of the Oslo process from the Israeli society’s perspective. This means that while the more radical supporters of Oslo hoped it would bring about the fulfillment of the Israeli Left’s plan, what happened was that the more conservative and more influential factors made sure that it will lead to much less.

The previously mentioned limitations of the Left’s approach, which also defined the limitations of the Oslo process, inevitably led to the failure of the Oslo process as a peace process. This failure brought about the collapse of the Israeli Left’s traditional political program regarding the solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. This collapse is the reason for the paralysis that has engulfed the Israeli Left.

The only types of activities that the Israeli left is capable of organizing are those of protest and solidarity. The left knows what it is against, it knows who is being oppressed, but it does not have any serious suggestion how to mobilize to change the current situation. Today’s Israeli left does not have a positive political program that can provide a serious alternative solution to the current situation, it does not have a plan it can offer as an answer to the voices from the right that say “so what do you offer?”

• It is crucial for us to define a positive political plan/strategy/program.
3. A positive program:

It was previously stated that the inability to provide suitable solutions to the essential issues of the conflict, was the cause for the failure of the Oslo process. In this perspective, any serious and realistic alternative political program that is presented, must offer a framework that will enable the fulfillment of all of the following essential conditions:
1. Right of return for the Palestinian refugees.
2. A democratic (no discrimination) future for the Palestinian residents of Israel.
3. A sovereignty-structure in Jerusalem answering the needs of all religions.
4. Establishing a democratic society based on the principles of human rights, for all residents of the land.

Before continuing, an explanation is owed for the statement made earlier (in section 2) that the framework of the solution offered by the traditional political program of the Israeli left, based on “two states”, is essentially incapable of meeting the above conditions. Here are the primary arguments:
1. This solution does not contain a commitment to human rights and democracy in the area as a primary value. We have witnessed in the Oslo accords and in the realities that followed, how this issue was totally neglected in favor of other interests, and as a result the situation of human rights and democracy in the area reached an all time low. There is no dispute on the fact that the current Intifada broke out, not only as a result of the Israeli oppression, but also as a result of the despair from the Palestinian Authority. The main reasons for this were the lack of democracy, offenses against human rights, and the corruption that characterizes the PA.
2. The “Two State” solution talks about a state of Palestine beside the state of Israel. The state of Israel, in this solution, is meant to be a modification of the current state of Israel only in its geographical borders but not in its essential nature. The state of Israel is intended to stay the state of the Jewish people, and as such will not grant true democracy and full equality to its Palestinian residents. Israel will continue to discriminate against its Arab citizens, will not allow any serious return of Palestinian refugees to its area (since this will compromise Israel’s Jewish demographic nature), and although a solution to the issue of Jerusalem will be technically possible, it will be problematical with a high tendency to complications.
It is possible to conduct a more penetrating and broader political analysis of the conflict and present additional powerful arguments, but the above two arguments are all that is needed to demonstrate that the “Two State” solution, is in fact essentially incapable of meeting the conditions needed for obtaining peace.

The only practical and realistic solution that can meet all the requirements needed is a solution based on the concept of ONE state, which is Democratic and Secular (this means that the rights of the residents are not affected by his/her religion/ethnicity/race etc, on the other hand members of all religions enjoy full freedom of religion). Although it requires a large conceptual adjustment, and although it might seem unattainable, this is in fact the only solution that is pragmatic and realistic, and will offer a stable and long-term solution for the conflict.

One democratic-secular state will be able to offer full equality to both Jewish, Palestinian, and any other residents. There will be no problem for the Palestinian refugees to return to all parts of the land, a united Jerusalem will be the capitol and members of all religions will be able to enjoy full freedom of religion. The state will be able to grant all residents full human and civil rights, any resident will be able to live in any area he wishes, Palestinians could live in Hertzelia and Jews could live in the West Bank and Gaza Strip (a right that would have been denied from both groups in a “Two State” solution).

One of the largest barriers that are currently standing in the way of promoting the “One State” solution is the belief shared by both Israelis and Palestinians that “The other side” will not be prepared to accept this solution. Factual information gathered in public opinion polls conducted by the JMCC (http://www.jmcc.org), shows that among the Palestinian public almost 25% support this solution (latest poll was conducted June 2001). One can reasonably assume that this percentage will rise if there is a similar display of support from the Jewish-Israeli side. The real problem is with the Israeli public; current figures regarding the support for “One State” are not available but can assumed to be very low. Nevertheless, according to estimates based on academic research, about 20% of the Israeli public have the potential of supporting this solution in the immediate future.

4. Establishing a new political frameworks based on the new program:

In order to advance this new political program, it is necessary to establish a new political framework (movement, front, coalition, etc.) that is based on the following principles:
1. The movement will struggle to protect the human rights, to guarantee full equality, and to promote the joint interests of all residents of the area.
2. The movement will act to promote the idea of “One Democratic-Secular State” as the only possible solution for the conflict.
3. The movement will be based on activists from among the Palestinian refugees and from among the residents of the land between the Jordan River and the sea. This includes Israel Jews, 48’ Palestinians, and 67’ Palestinians, all working together towards a joint future in the area.

I call upon all interested, to join the activists working these days on the establishment of a new political framework.

Contact:
Hillel Barak
Mobile 051-829-834
Home 02-991-8121
Email: .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

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By Barry, October 9, 2006 at 2:53 am Link to this comment
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I haven’t been on-line much recently because of the holidays here in Israel, but I see I haven’t missed much of substance.  Here are just a few points:

Anyone who thinks that Jerusalem has been emptied of Arabs hasn’t been there.  Anyone who thinks that Arabs can’t get jobs in Israel hasn’t been there.  Anyone who thinks that Arab towns aren’t as well developed as many Israeli towns hasn’t been there.

Israel has agreed to withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza in return for Arabs giving up terror.  They have always responded that they will not give up terror.

All recent “development” by Israel in “settlements” has been in Maaleh Adumim or Efrat, both of which are cities of tens of thousands of people that are geographically contiguous with Jewish Jerusalem.  Even Arafat didn’t argue with their obviously staying in Israeli hands.  I have not heard of any recent development in any actual settlements.

Regarding settlers refusing to leave settlements if a peace deal was realized, bottom line, they left Gaza.  They exercised their democratic right to peaceful demonstration, and they left.

Regarding refugees, Israel has said many times that we will reimburse all refugees as long as all Jewish refugees from Arab countries in 1948 are also reimbursed.

And as for Israel taking away ARab homes in 1948, baloney.  There was no country here, there was a British Mandate, and the British Mandate and the UN created the State of Israel.  Millions of Arabs stayed in the State of Israel and have been living here since, and living as well as many Israeli towns.  The creation of the state of Israel was the creation of a government, not the removal of any previous government. 

Anyone who says that Arabs didn’t stay here and aren’t living well here simply hasn’t been here.  The horrible things you’ve seen in the West Bank and Gaza were not created by Israel, they were created by Jordan and Egypt, who controled the West Bank and Gaza from 1948 until 1967.

Bottom line, Israel has tried for peace, and Arabs have always chosen terror.  And terror has its consequences.

Lastly, for all those who have called me a settler, I live in mainstream Israel, and am a supporter of withdrawal of settlements if a true peace agreement is reached.  Everything I say is observation of reality here.

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By Fadel Abdallah, October 8, 2006 at 5:52 pm Link to this comment
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Lest the World Forget!
This Day in History!
(The Massacre of Al-Aqsa Mosque - October 8, 1990)

As an extension of the Zionist policy based upon exercising control over the city of Jerusalem and emptying it of its [Arab] residents by various and sundry means, such as Zionist terrorism and shedding the blood of the Palestinian people - a policy which Zionists have acted upon on numerous occasions - Zionist authorities undertook on Monday, October 8, 1990 to carry out this heinous massacre against Palestinian worshippers.

Several days before the events of the massacre began, the “Temple Trustees” group distributed a statement to the media on the occasion of a religious festival of theirs which they call “the Throne Festival”. In the statement the organization announced that it intended to stage a march to the Temple Mount (or so they call it). The statement called upon Jews to participate in this march since, according to the statement, it would involve the decisive act of placing the foundation stone for what is called the “Third Temple.” In addition, the founder of the organization, Ghershoun Salmoun, announced that “the Arab-Islamic occupation of the temple area must come to an end, and the Jews must renew their profound ties to the sacred area.” The march, in which 200,000 Jews took part, headed toward al-Aqsa Mosque in order for “the foundation stone” of the so-called “Third Temple” to be put in place.

On Monday, October 8, 1990 at 10:00 A.M., half-hour before the beginning of the massacre, Israeli occupation forces began placing military barriers along various roads leading to Jerusalem in order to prevent Palestinians from getting to the city. They also closed the doors of the mosque itself and forbid Jerusalem residents to go in. However, thousands had already gathered inside the mosque before this time in response to calls from the imam of the mosque and the Islamic movement to protect the mosque and to prevent the “Temple Trustees” from storming it.

When the Muslim worshippers began resisting the Israeli group to prevent them from placing the”foundation stone” for their so-called temple, Israeli occupation forces began carrying out the massacre,using all the weapons such as poison gas bombs, automatic weapons, military helicopters, etc. The soldiers and Jewish settlers where firing live ammunition in the form of a continuous spray of machine-gun fire. The result was that thousands of Palestinian worshippers of various ages found themselves in a mass death trap. Twenty-three Palestinians were killed, and 850 others were wounded to varying degrees. The Israeli soldiers began firing at 10:30 A.M. and stopped 35 minutes later. They opened fire on the Palestinian worshippers randomly and in cold blood. Then they pursued them with clubs and rifles [outside the mosque].

Nurse Fatima Abu Khadir, who was wounded by a bullet which fractured her wrist, states, “We went into the mosque precincts in an ambulance. I saw a large number of injured who had fallen on the ground. Then I saw lots of soldiers, hundreds of soldiers. They were about 30 meters from the ambulance and kneeling on one knee the way snipers do, and their weapons were aimed inside the ambulance. After that I couldn’t see anything.”

News agencies described the blessed precincts of al-Aqsa Mosque saying that blood had covered “the entire two hundred meters between the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque. Blood was flowing everywhere, all over the wide steps, and had stained the white tile the length of the broad courtyard, as well as the doors of both mosques. The walls of the two mosques had long, crimson lines etched onto hem by bleeding hands, and blood had stained the white uniforms of the woman first-aid workers. Everyone - the wounded and the more fortunate, first-aid workers, journalists, and Israeli soldiers - all of them looked as though they were swimming in blood.

Physician Muhammad Abu ‘Ayila relates what happened to him and to a wounded man to whom he had been trying to administer first aid, and how the Zionists’ glee at the sight of Palestinian blood spilled in the precincts of the holy mosque had blinded their eyes so much that they couldn’t distinguish between a young child and an old man, between a man and a woman, between a wounded man and one seeking to treat him. He says, “I got out of the ambulance carrying a first-aid kit. I was wearing a white uniform. The soldiers saw me and knew I was a doctor. But when I got to the wounded person nearest me and bent down to treat him, I got three bullets in my back in the region of the kidney. At that very moment, the wounded man near me died. But he could have been saved if I hadn’t been hit.”

Most of the wounds, in fact, were in the head and in the heart.

Then, in a farce designed to justify the crime which had been committed by Zionists’ hands now stained with Palestinian blood, terrorist Yitzhaq Shamir, Prime Minister of the Zionist entity at that time, hastened to form a fact-finding committee which he called the “Zamir Committee” after its head, Tu’fi Zamir, former head of the Israeli Mossad. As for the outcome of the committee’s investigation, it was announced by Moshe Almert, head of the Media Office of the occupation government, who said, “The report confirms clearly that the responsibility and fault for escalating [the conflict] lies on the side of the thousands of Muslim extremists, who were attacking the holy place of the Jews.”

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By ed_tru_lib, October 8, 2006 at 4:14 pm Link to this comment
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O-and re comment by the paragon of rational thought claiming his name is “goodman” - yup its sure sane to say I’ve been more of a help to “palestine” than say, that iranian leader who sounds almost as sane as you, except of course he has nukes. People like him, or you have nothing to say that merits a response other than one of utter contempt. You support child-killers Goering..er..goodman. I really don’t. In your “mind” I can see where that would make me the bad guy.

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By ed_tru_lib, October 8, 2006 at 4:00 pm Link to this comment
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Tony-you seem to be a decent and reasonable enough person, which is all the more noteworthy looking at the mindless hate expressed in so many of the posts here going back to the beginning. I really don’t care if the “nature” of a particular person’s particular hate is anti-semetic, anti-islam, anti-gay, nazi, republican or whatever. Is it always a good thing to be reasonable? In today’s Boston Globe, Jeff Jacoby (no friend of Israel btw) comments on the parents of the murdered Amish children standing over their coffins and preaching the goodness of their murderer, and how he must not only be forgiven, but LOVED. This is their interpretation of Christian charity and love, as applied in their own tragedy. Perhaps the man saying this is wonderful, even “christlike” or if one prefers “moseslike” or “muhammadlike” or “Siddhartalike”. Personally I think he’s at best misguided to the point of hallucination, at worst utterly insane and in his possible enabling of future evil, by those who might listen to him,  perhaps even more harmful than his child’s killer.
Zionism was the philosophy of moderate, liberal embracing-of all-religions-and-people-of peace-and-goodwill, hope and love for generations. Perhaps once it came to fruition, in Israel’s return to actual existance after millenia of Jewish martyrdom and victimhood, it could have always continued to do so. The practical reality is however, Israel has lived daily for almost 60 years with a situation such as existed in lower Manhattan for the 10 minutes between the first and second towers being hit, except they know the second plane is coming, and have a pretty good idea of who’s sending it.
Sure Israeli missiles were fired into Beirut neighborhoods, and killed non-combatants. Thats where the terrorist coward combatants firing into Haifa neighborhoods were cowering. Sure Zionisn has lost some of its innocence, in having to deal, in a real world, with real evil, real religious insanity, and the real political agenda of the very people (big oil, big weapons contractors, big “christian” televangelists), who sustain their pathetic arab puppets for financial gain, and should be most despised by those who want lasting peace in ALL of the mideast.
Of course not all Jews are zionists. Not all zionists are Jews. The vast majority of both, within and without Israel simply want all nations in the region to be able to live in the secure peace Rabin and Sadat envisioned.
The simple truth of several months ago, before this latest Israeli defense of its people, territory, and freedom, is the same as it has been for six decades. Recognize them; leave them alone; and they will leave everyone else alone. Try to kill them, and you will find that, decent, reasonable, and truly liberal as they are, they are not Amish,(though Amish are of course welcome there, TOTALLY unlike their neighboring countries) or insane, and will defend their children to the death, preferably not their own.

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By Tony Wicher, October 7, 2006 at 11:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #27518 by Robert on 10/07 at 1:24 am

“I am NOT anti-Judaism at all. There are many God fearing peaceful “wonderful Jews” who don’t agree with the Zionist theory & current direction.

So please don’t raise the “anti-semetic” flag due to my reasons for not supporting Zionism’s objectives & goals.”

Robert,

We are in complete agreement on refusing to equate Zionism with Judaism. Indeed, what I am saying is that we must carefully separate them to see the situation clearly. I just happen to think that the controlling interest here is primarily big oil and defense, the U.S. military-industrial complex, not Zionism. As I said, certainly there are Zionists in high places, but they are not the controlling power and will be thrown overboard by that power if and when it serves its interest to do so. To see Zionism as the controlling power seems to me to slip into a conspiracy theory about “scheming Jews” that does verge on antisemitism, or at least looks a little like it. What Sharon might have said to  
Perez does not change my judgment of the real power relations here.

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By Fadel Abdallah, October 7, 2006 at 9:58 pm Link to this comment
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Lest The World Forget!
Al-Aqsa Mosque Massacre - October 8, 1990:
In memory of another unforgettable, unforgivable massacre by the Zionist (a.k.a. The Terrorist State of Israel)

As an extension of the Zionist policy based upon exercising control over the city of Jerusalem and emptying it of its [Arab] residents by various and sundry means, such as Zionist terrorism and shedding the blood of the Palestinian people - a policy which Zionists have acted upon on numerous occasions - Zionist authorities undertook on Monday, October 8, 1990 to carry out this heinous massacre against Palestinian worshippers.

Several days before the events of the massacre began, the “Temple Trustees” group distributed a statement to the media on the occasion of a religious festival of theirs which they call “the Throne Festival”. In the statement the organization announced that it intended to stage a march to the Temple Mount (or so they call it). The statement called upon Jews to participate in this march since, according to the statement, it would involve the decisive act of placing the foundation stone for what is called the “Third Temple.” In addition, the founder of the organization, Ghershoun Salmoun, announced that “the Arab-Islamic occupation of the temple area must come to an end, and the Jews must renew their profound ties to the sacred area.” The march, in which 200,000 Jews took part, headed toward al-Aqsa Mosque in order for “the foundation stone” of the so-called “Third Temple” to be put in place.

On Monday, October 8, 1990 at 10:00 A.M., half-hour before the beginning of the massacre, Israeli occupation forces began placing military barriers along various roads leading to Jerusalem in order to prevent Palestinians from getting to the city. They also closed the doors of the mosque itself and forbid Jerusalem residents to go in. However, thousands had already gathered inside the mosque before this time in response to calls from the Imam of the Mosque and the Islamic movement to protect the mosque and to prevent the “Temple Trustees” from storming it.

When the Muslim worshippers began resisting the Israeli group to prevent them from placing the”foundation stone” for their so-called temple, Israeli occupation forces began carrying out the massacre,using all the weapons such as poison gas bombs, automatic weapons, military helicopters, etc. The soldiers and Jewish settlers where firing live ammunition in the form of a continuous spray of machine-gun fire. The result was that thousands of Palestinian worshippers of various ages found themselves in a mass death trap. Twenty-three Palestinians were killed, and 850 others were wounded to varying degrees. The Israeli soldiers began firing at 10:30 A.M. and stopped 35 minutes later. They opened fire on the Palestinian worshippers randomly and in cold blood. Then they pursued them with clubs and rifles [outside the mosque].

Nurse Fatima Abu Khadir, who was wounded by a bullet which fractured her wrist, states, “We went into the mosque precincts in an ambulance. I saw a large number of injured who had fallen on the ground. Then I saw lots of soldiers, hundreds of soldiers. They were about 30 meters from the ambulance and kneeling on one knee the way snipers do, and their weapons were aimed inside the ambulance. After that I couldn’t see anything.”

News agencies described the blessed precincts of al-Aqsa Mosque saying that blood had covered “the entire two hundred meters between the Dome of the Rock and al-Aqsa Mosque. Blood was flowing everywhere, all over the wide steps, and had stained the white tile the length of the broad courtyard, as well as the doors of both mosques. The walls of the two mosques had long, crimson lines etched onto hem by bleeding hands, and blood had stained the white uniforms of the woman first-aid workers. Everyone - the wounded and the more fortunate, first-aid workers, journalists, and Israeli soldiers - all of them looked as though they were swimming in blood.

Physician Muhammad Abu ‘Ayila relates what happened to him and to a wounded man to whom he had been trying to administer first aid, and how the Zionists’ glee at the sight of Palestinian blood spilled in the precincts of the holy mosque had blinded their eyes so much that they couldn’t distinguish between a young child and an old man, between a man and a woman, between a wounded man and one seeking to treat him. He says, “I got out of the ambulance carrying a first-aid kit. I was wearing a white uniform. The soldiers saw me and knew I was a doctor. But when I got to the wounded person nearest me and bent down to treat him, I got three bullets in my back in the region of the kidney. At that very moment, the wounded man near me died. But he could have been saved if I hadn’t been hit.”
Most of the wounds, in fact, were in the head and in the heart.

Then, in a farce designed to justify the crime which had been committed by Zionists’ hands now stained with Palestinian blood, terrorist Yitzhaq Shamir, Prime Minister of the Zionist entity at that time, hastened to form a fact-finding committee which he called the “Zamir Committee” after its head, Tu’fi Zamir, former head of the Israeli Mossad. As for the outcome of the committee’s investigation, it was announced by Moshe Almert, head of the Media Office of the occupation government, who said, “The report confirms clearly that the responsibility and fault for escalating [the conflict] lies on the side of the thousands of Muslim extremists, who were attacking the holy place of the Jews.”

Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Dome of the Rock are collectively known as al-Haram al-Sharif (Noble Sanctuary). Originally built in CE711 (AD711), al-Aqsa Mosque is Islam’s third holiest place, after the two Holy Mosques in Saudi Arabia.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 7, 2006 at 7:27 pm Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #27443 by ed_tru_lib on 10/06

Thanks for your very helpful comment in this space. Compared with the rest of the comments you come across as a complete ass.

Again, thanks for making it quite clear what you are. You have done more for the cause of Palestine and human rights than all the Israeli arguments have for their cause. Keep up the flow of vitriolic nonsense. It helps us.

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By Robert, October 7, 2006 at 7:16 pm Link to this comment
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Continued response to Tony’s comments #27431 & 27385 on 10/06.

Tony,

The link that I provided in my last comment/response for references to Pro-Israel PAC Contributions to Congressional Candidates had one # that was missing, so I am providing the correct link.


http://www.wrmea.com/archives/may-june_2006/0605031.html

Best regards.

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By Fadel Abdallah, October 7, 2006 at 9:22 am Link to this comment
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Another Physical and Psychological Israeli Barrier to Peace!

The latest 33-day Israeli all open war against Lebanon resulted in the killing of some 1000 people, most of them civilians, children, women and old. The number of injured and crippled runs in the thousands. This barbaric war left the south of Lebanon in total ruins.

However, this is not the end of the story about Israeli savagery. In the last day of the war, Israel dropped what is estimated to be between a million and a million and half cluster bombs. These bombs are killing and maiming Lebanese, again mostly children and women, at a rate of 5 people per day. Of course, the mainstream Israeli-cheering American and Western media would not consider this ongoing slow killing news worth reporting. Therefore, one has to look for the few alternative free news media outlets to learn about this tragic situation. However, God (or nature for those who don’t believe in God) has a way to send conscientious human beings to expose, document and record for history the horrible crimes of the Zionist entity. 

At Stop the War’s CEASEFIRE NOW demonstration on August 5, they asked people to bring children’s shoes to lay at the Cenotaph in Whitehall to signify the high proportion of fatalities among young children resulting from Israel’s barbaric attacks on Lebanon’s civilian areas, then taking place. The response was extraordinary and very moving and after the demonstration Stop the War collected a huge number of shoes.
They have now given the shoes collected at the CEASEFIRE NOW demonstration to Handicap International UK, which is organizing the 2006 PYRAMID OF SHOES in Hyde Park on Saturday 14 October, to support the international campaign against cluster bombs. The main focus of the event is the construction of a PYRAMID OF SHOES, each shoe representing a life or limb lost to a cluster bomb.
The Pyramid of Shoes event has added significance for Stop the War, given the many protests that they organized against Israel’s bombardment of Lebanon. One of Israel’s innumerable war crimes was the carpet bombing of southern Lebanon with more than one million cluster bombs, which it is predicted will kill and maim hundreds of civilians in the months, or even years, to come.
Members of the public are asked to participate in the Pyramid of Shoes event in Hyde Park on 14 October by bringing a pair of shoes to show their support for victims and populations under threat of cluster bombs worldwide.

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By Tony Wicher, October 7, 2006 at 8:34 am Link to this comment
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Reply to Comment #27443 by ed_tru_lib on 10/06 at 1:47 pm

Ed, I am trying to communicate with you, not insult you or fight with you. I don’t hate anybody. I wish you would at least make a little effort to address what I said in my last two comments. I don’t hate anybody. I seek peace and justice for all. I advocate non-violence as my first principle of political action. This is not a “left-loony” blogspot. I agree with you that There are “loony leftist” ideologues who are full of hate and antagonism and I oppose them too. Try not to be a loony Zionist. People here listen to each other, and will listen to you and treat you with respect if you will do the same. Otherwise we will have to ignore you.

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By Robert, October 7, 2006 at 1:24 am Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #27385 by Tony Wicher on 10/06 @ 11:13AM

Re: Comment #27431 ”  ”  ”  on 10/06 @ 12:57PM

“I agree with most of what you say, but not all of it. It is a mistake to say that the American Government is “dominated by Zionist jews”, and to say this might fairly be labeled anti-semetic.”

“There are highly placed Zionists in the U.S. government, but they are not in the driver’s seat. Those who suggest this, whether American leftists or Muslim anti-zionists, are making a mistake, because this is not entirely true.”


Tony,

After reading your 2 response comments, I am not sure what you agree with what I commented. You already echoed that some of what I commented “might fairly be labeled anti-semetic.”

It is important that you understand that I am NOT equating Zionism and Judaism. Zionist propaganda has led the American people to believe that Zionism and Judaism are one and the same and that they are religious in nature. This is a blatant error.

Judaism is a religion, but Zionism is a political movement started mainly by East European Jews.

I am NOT anti-Judaism at all. There are many God fearing peaceful “wonderful Jews” who don’t agree with the Zionist theory & current direction.

So please don’t raise the “anti-semetic” flag due to my reasons for not supporting Zionism’s objectives & goals.

Ariel Sharon to Shimon Peres: “Don’t worry about American pressure; we control America.”

On October 3, 2001, (IAP/Israeli News), a harsh & bitter argument erupted during the Israeli cabinet weekly session last week between Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon & his foreign miniter Shimon Peres during which Sharon reportedly yelled at Peres, saying “don’t worry about American pressure, we control America.”

According to Israel radio (in Hebrew) Kol Yisrael, Peres warned Sharon that refusing to heed constant American requests for a cease-fire with the Palestinians would endanger Israeli interests and “turn the US against us.”

At this point, a furious Sharon reportedly turned towards Peres, saying “every time we do something you tell me Americans will do this and will do that. I want to tell you something very clear, don’t worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it.”

Senator Fullbright, Chair of Senate Foreign Relation Committee. On 10/07/1973 on CBS “Face The Nation” said, “The Israelis control the policy in the congress & the senate.”

The long history of bipartisan Congressional support for Israel led former Secretary of State James Baker to call the Congress “The Little Kenesset” after Israel’S Kenesset(parliament) in Jerusalem.

Pat Buchannan stated that the US Congress & Senate are “Occupied Territories” by AIPAC and Israel.

When Israeli and U.S. policies clash, it is the U.S. presidents who back down. Except for president Eisenhower.

I could go on & on to support my comments. I don’t think the above are leftist Americans or anti-zionist Muslims.

Our U.S. mainstream News media are mostly controlled by Zionists. Fox News, CNN, MSNBC,radio, Hollywood, press and the rest of the mainstream media strong, biased and sympathetic portrayal of Israel while simultaneously denying any opposing view of Israel or human pictures and stories of the endless suffering of the Palestinian people, its no wonder that we the American people are so unaware of the true face of Israel.(NO CRITIQUE BALANCE ZONE).

When was the last time that you saw a Hollywood movie that was not favorable to Israel?

You can bet that “Ben Hur” will be on for us to see around Christmas time. It comes on just about every year around the holidays. 

In Israel a Christian is permitted to preach the gospel in a church building, but for the clergy or anyone to even tell one about teachings in the Bible outside the church will bring a 5 year prison sentence.

For a Christian to give a Bible or a religious article or even an act of kindness toward a Jew, such as giving a gift of food, can be interpreted as trying to convert a Jew to Christianity and can bring a 5 year prison sentence.

Israel receives more U.S. foreign aid and taxpayer cash than any other foreign nation. Contributions to AIPAC are tax-deductable. Wealthy Jewish professionals contribute millions to both AIPAC and Israel, providing a virtual unlimited cash pool for “contributions” to fund American politicians campaigns.

For references to Pro-Israel PAC Contributions to Congressional Cadidates….click:

http://www.wrmea.com/archives/may-june_2006/0650531.html

You mentioned a few Arab countries regarding their status compared to Israel. Most of those countries foreign aid don’t even come close to what Israel receives from the U.S. . The majority of those Arab leaders are friends of the U.S. and most likely are on the American payroll.

Saudi Arabia is a monarchy that keeps the royal family well paid. It has full support & protection from the USA.

When Saudi Arabia buys anything from the U.S., they pay cash money for it; unless, AIPAC forces the cancelation of the sale.

Don’t forget that Saudi Arabia invests its billions right here in the U.S. . Just imagine what would happen if Saudi Arabia decides to pull its vast billions out of the U.S. !!!

“Israel’s capital is provided by world Jewry”

Are you saying that Israel doesn’t need the American foreign aid that it gets from us?

$108 billion dollars is a lot of money. Think of $1 billion dollars 30 years ago. Its like having $10 billion today.

After reading “They Dare To Speak Out” people & institutions by Paul Findley, I must say the book opened my eyes.


Tony, you had some very good points regarding MIC & a peaceful route to the conflict.


PEACE WITH JUSTICE FOR ALL IS POSSIBLE IF WE ALL CAN WORK ON IT !!!

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By Kwagmyre, October 6, 2006 at 8:31 pm Link to this comment
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Response to #27443(by ed_tru_lib:

Is this wild eyed, omnidirectional, unfathomable diatribe all you’re capable of in response to the preceding comments(and not just from me either)?

Personally, I would hope you could.

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By ed_tru_lib, October 6, 2006 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment
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Re the last few comments: There never has been and never will any rational arguing with the mindless haters of the extremem left. No matter how many busloads of children are blown up by the sand-eaters, no matter that Israel for all its flaws, is, as it has always been, an island of progressive, liberal democracy surrounded by hate and evil as vile (if fortunately not as powerful) as any the world has ever seen, the same people who are polishing their Nader/Bin Laden ‘08 buttons will never learn, or try to. I express my feelings for them with such contempt, because it is so much less than what they deserve, or would, if any of their insanities could come to factual fruition.
Even as many Americans, and other people around the world finally begin to see the folly and perhaps permanent harm of the republinazis’ incompetence, and self-serving stupidity, even as Fox “news” expresses at least some reluctance to parrot every last bush/rove/coulter syllable, and equate Rep. Foley with Rep Frank, or blame Clinton/monica for Rove/Hastert, even as the lunatic right at least begins to pay some modest lip-service to sanity and decency, even if only out of fear of ratings/sponsors loss, the always equally lunatic left hangs on to its consistency.  Hey why not show you’re solidarity w/your loving middle-eastern brothers? ya know-the ones Israel is always so peskily displacing if not “martyring”—open your Nader ‘08 campaign office high in a Manhattan skyscaper—preferably close to JFK/LA GUARDIA approach paths maybe you could hire that Tasini character as campaign manager, since the zionists squashed his trying to “Lieberloser” Hilary. (Of course, common sense, common decency, and a need to defeat republicans had NOTHING to do with her squashing his punk leftyloon ass like a beirut cockroach)

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By Tony Wicher, October 6, 2006 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment
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Continued response to Robert’s Comment #27339

Other points of disagreement:

I do not agree that the Israeli economy would collapse without U.S. aid. Jews, whether Zionist or not, are a highly educated and very productive people, and Israel, aided by capital provided primarily by world Jewry, not the United States, has indeed done great things economically for its people. For this they deserve credit - a lot more than, say, Saudi Arabia. What have they done for their people with all their oil capital?

That U.S. aid of which you speak is practically all military aid, not economic aid. Of course, the MIC is very happy to keep the Zionists supplied with all the hardware their stony hearts desire. 

Also, I do not agree that aid to Israel has bankrupted the U.S. economy. At least, not in any direct way. 108 billion dollars in 40 years? That’s nothing! These days the MIC is really in the saddle, and is screwing us for that much in a month! What you can do, in my view, is blame the MIC, not Israel, for bankrupting the U.S economy, causing war for the sake of oil and war profits, and using Israel to that end. You can blame the Zionists using the MIC for their own equally unjust and oppressive purposes.

There are highly placed Zionists in the U.S. government, but they are not in the driver’s seat. Those who suggest this, whether American leftists or Muslim anti-Zionists, are making a mistake, because this is not entirely true and therefore will be used by the Zionists to cry “antisemitism”. We must be very careful here, and give Israel and Zionism every bit of credit which is due, and no blame where it is not due. We must also balance our critique with an equally hard look at other countries, such as Iran, Syria, Jordan, Egypt and Saudi Arabia. Then our objections to Zionism will be clear and pointed.

The real objection to Zionism is that the Zionist regime is an apartheid regime. It is a form of racism, and it always will be as long as it insists that Jews must have a Jewish state protected by a Jewish army. If the Jewish people living in the area would give up Zionism and agree to full repatriation all Palestinians and to write together with them a constitution forbidding discrimination and enshrining as its first principle the separation of church and state, that will be a great day for humanity. May it come soon. We in the U.S. can help to make this happen by getting the MIC out of the saddle in this country, starting this November. Palestinians can make it happen by trying to make peace with the Jewish people behind the backs of their Zionist government through a non-violent peace movement. Any form of violence by Palestinians will only help the Zionists, but a peace movement could be very effective. Jews are a wonderful people. They will respond.

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By Justice4All, October 6, 2006 at 11:28 am Link to this comment
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Comment #27339 by Robert

Well said.

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By Tony Wicher, October 6, 2006 at 11:13 am Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #27339 by Robert on 10/06 at 7:51 am

RE: Comment # 26982 by ed_tru_lib on 10/04 @ 8:38AM.


“Economically, Israel is bankrupt. Whenever a government of a state and its citizens spend more money than the value of the goods produced, economic bankruptcy will result.

If it were not for the aid from America, Israel’s economy would have collapsed long ago. Israel is a “Wellfare State” in every sense of the word. It is America’s most favored recipient.

American taxpayers aid to Israel $3-5 billion dollars per year. Over $108 billion dollars of our money for Israel (1948-2006) & on-going non-stop everyday.

While America’s farmers, small businessmen and laborers are struggling to survive, the US Government, dominated by Zionist Jews, are draining the pockets and purses of the American taxpayers to support Israel’s socialist economy and war machine.”

Robert,

I agree with most of what you say, but not all of it. It is a mistake to say that the American Government is “dominated by Zionist Jews”, and to say this might fairly be labeled anti-semitic. The fact is that the American Government is dominated by “the military-industrial complex:”, particularly big oil and big defense contractors. Decisions are being made by these rulers that have nothing to do with anything but greed and short-term profits. The alliance with Israel is nothing but a convenient pretext, along with “freedom”, “democracy, etc. The U.S. military-industrial complex and the Zionists are in a marriage of convenience, a devil’s bargain. There is a similar devil’s bargain between the military-industrial complex and Christian fundamentalists in this country, the purpose of which is to win elections. Throw Pat Robertson, etc. into the mix and things really get sinister. But the ideology, religious or political, is only an instrument of economic control (as Marx correctly teaches in this case). It’s only for propaganda.

Zionists are useful tools of the MIC (I get tired of typing “military-industrial complex”. Let’s introduce a new three-letter abbreviation, shall we?). The Zionists are lapdogs of the MIC, not the other way around. If the MIC thought their greed could be served by siding with the Islamists, Christian fundamentalists would start persecuting Jews just like old times and the MIC would start rounding them up and putting them in concentration camps. Stay tuned.

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By Robert, October 6, 2006 at 7:51 am Link to this comment
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RE: Comment # 26982 by ed_tru_lib on 10/04 @ 8:38AM.

“I suspect some/most of elmer’s new minions are the same old islamonadernazis, w/changed names. Israel defended itself; Israel won; Israel lives; hate, ignorance and evil lost again; as they always must and will.”

The American people are becoming more aware of the tactics of Israelis & Zionist Jews in order to quiet anyone who attempts to expose the Israelis & the Zionists subversive acts.

. First, they cry “Anti-Semitism” which is nothing more than a smoke screen to hide their actions/intentions.

If that doesn’t work, they resort to other tactics:

.They ignore the charges hoping the information will not be given widespread attention & distribution.

. If that doen’t work, their next step is character assassination. If the writer or speaker hasn’t been involved in sufficient scandal, they are masters at fabricating scandal against the person or persons.

. If none of the above are effective, they are known to resort to physical attacks and deadly harm.

Economically, Israel is bankrupt. Whenever a government of a state and its citizens spend more money than the value of the goods produced, economic bankruptcy will result.

If it were not for the aid from America, Israel’s economy would have collapsed long ago. Israel is a “Wellfare State” in every sense of the word. It is America’s most favored recipient.

American taxpayers aid to Israel $3-5 billion dollars per year. Over $108 billion dollars of our money for Israel (1948-2006) & on-going non-stop everyday.

While America’s farmers, small businessmen and laborers are struggling to survive, the US Government, dominated by Zionist Jews, are draining the pockets and purses of the American taxpayers to support Israel’s socialist economy and war machine.

Since the Israeli government knows, and the favored Zionist know, that the Zionist pressure in America will ensure that the USA will keep sending the massive amounts of money, Israel’s government and its favored citizens spend money like gamblers. At least…gamblers spend their own money…Israel spends money in gets from America !!! 

Look at who got America to go war & attack Iraq for “WMD”. It was Cheney & his Zionists Jews at the pentagon. The war in Iraq hast cost our America over $330 billion dollars so far. America is paying $8-10 billion dollars per month on the war in Iraq. Look at all the US casualties & all the innocent civilian deaths. Chaos, destruction and horrific disasters looms as a result of the tricks and damn lies of the Zionists (Paul Wolfowitz,Richard Perle, Douglas Feith, Elliot Abrams, Michael Chertoff, Ari Fleischer, William Kristol, Josh Bolten, Scooter Libby, Kissinger & others).

More American men & women will die because of these treacherous Zionists. They have been pushing America into this war & are still busy planning for other conflicts possibly with Syria & Iran.

While Zionist Bankers & other Zionist organizations are busy counting their profits from this war & others, American mothers & fathers are mourning the loss of their sons & daughters.

Most Americans are not aware of the treacherous Israeli & Zionists intentions & plans. Israel will cause other wars on Syria, Iran & Lebanon.

Israel will cause more conflict unless the American people learn the truth about Israelis/Zionists Jews and act to stop our elected politicians in Washington from bowing to the American Zionists and stop using American taxpayer’s money to finance Israel & its war machine.

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By Tony Wicher, October 4, 2006 at 10:32 pm Link to this comment
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Comment #26982 by ed_tru_lib on 10/04 at 8:38 am

Wow, I would like to see a fanaticism-off between you and Ayman Zawahiri. It should be very entertaining! My money is on you!

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By Kwagmyre, October 4, 2006 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment
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In his paragraph Ed_tru_lib states:

“Israel defended itself; Israel won;”

Now who are you trying to kid?

Did it succeed in getting back the kidnapped soldiers?

Did it deal a decisive blow to Hezbollah or even intimidate it so bad it will never take up arms again?

If there was any “defense” involved here, it came to the Israeli government(Olmert et al)having to defend itself against stupidity and even among many Israelis pretty upset with the whole episode.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 4, 2006 at 7:23 pm Link to this comment
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Truth stings harder than any false theory or accusation. The Internet is a great forum for truth. It is doing its best to pin the tail on the donkey of lies, propaganda, and cover up.

Witness what happened to Tom Delay, now Mark Foley, and soon Dennis Hastert, et al.

The truth of the Israeli occupation and violations of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in Palestine are finding their way into the public conscience. I note a slight improvement in the American Media coverage. Those who love Israel are fewer in number than just a few months ago.

Truth about Iraq is coming out. Truth about Afghanistan, Viet Nam, Korea, and others. Never before did anyone have a Google that could instantaneously bring so much truth, and to admit it, lies, at the tip of the fingers. But, when lies are matched against truth, truth wins.

The better access to truth is bringing down the Republican lead in the Congress, and except for his lame duck status, would bring down President Bush. If enough Democrats and good honest Republicans get to the Senate and the House of Representatives, there is a good chance that articles of impeachment against both Bush and Cheney will be launched. Guess what: if that happens, the Speaker of the House of Representatives is next in line for succession to the presidency. He will be a Democrat in the new congress.

Then the Democrats better be wise and be careful or they will be brought down in their tern. Honest government and true peace in this world will be the reward for all the time we spend on the computer keyboards. All the braying donkeys about the right of Israel to exist on the ancestral lands of the Palestinians will fly over like a lead brick. Hypocrites cannot stand the light of day and the truth available on the Internet.

Liars have a hard enough time remembering what they have lied about. Bob Woodward’s new book brings that out. Now with word for word quotes available at the touch of a little pinkie, who has a good enough memory, or is nimble enough with the mind to sidestep and deny?

Politics as usual ain’t what it used to be. Start getting used to truth for a change. But beware of geeks bearing gifts. Liars won’t surrender easily. And bullies will still try to beat up on the Internet. I got my bets on truth.

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By Justice4All, October 4, 2006 at 10:56 am Link to this comment
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Comment #26982

It is quite obvious that after a month of voluntary absence, you still have not grown up as an intellectual and you are still as ignorant and impotent as you have always been. You are not adding anything substantial to the debate and cannot even compile a meaningful paragraph without attacking others. This, by the way, is coming from a Christian.

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By ed_tru_lib, October 4, 2006 at 8:38 am Link to this comment
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Interesting to go away for a while and come back and find this has indeed become, as it was well in tho process of becoming a few months ago-the al quaeda chatroom. Fudd of course will never spew anything but mindless hatred of Israeli liberal demcracy, and its doing what it must in a surrounded-by-nazi-cowards-world with the new SS riding camels and schoolbuses instead of tanks and stukas. I suspect some/most of elmer’s new minions are the same old islamonadernazis, w/changed names. Israel defended itself; Israel won; Israel lives; hate, ignorance,  and evil lost again; as they always must and will.

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By Kwagmyre, October 3, 2006 at 8:48 am Link to this comment
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Posted by Geronimo:

“Isn’t now the time for all peace and justice loving Israelis and Palestinians, by way of the Internet, to get together and work things out, only this time according to terms and specs set down by the Palestinians, not the Jewish settlers and based upon the golden rule?”

Yes, I brought up the intractable problem of the Jewish settlers to Barry(who’s mysteriously absent these days)when I likened it to pulling teeth(and impacted wisdom ones at that!). 

Contrary to his optimistic view about them wherein they’d willingly leave as soon as the Palestinians completely “renounce terror”, I see many if not most of them fighting tooth and nail to stay in the West Bank and East Jerusalem based purely on adherence to biblical rationalizations and “Eretz Israel.”

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By Geronimo, October 3, 2006 at 7:12 am Link to this comment
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Isn’t now the time for all peace and justice loving Israelis and Palestinians, by way of the Internet, to get together and work things out,  only this time according to terms and specs set down by the Palestinians, not the Jewish settlers and based upon the golden rule? 

It’s a must, too, since the only alternative is to stay the course unto doomsday

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By Tony Wicher, October 3, 2006 at 12:38 am Link to this comment
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It seems as though in every country there is a war party, and the only thing all these parties agree about is that they love war and hate peace. None of them has any qualms about slaughtering the innocent, especially innocent peace advocates in their midst whom they call “traitors”. Peace, for them, is the worst enemy of all.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 2, 2006 at 6:38 am Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #26606 by Tony Wicher on 10/01

Tony, I accept the deserved rebuke. My choice of Zionist for Jewish was wrong. I usually catch such a glaring mistake, but it got by in my zeal for human rights and right over wrong. Of course, your did not refer to Zionists in your comment.

It brings out a comparable mistake made by the United States government with respect to Palestine and other problem areas of the world. Hamas is labeled a terrorist organization, though Israel is not so labeled. Iraqi insurgents are labeled terrorists, though not American soldiers who carry out raids in which Iraqi people are terrorized.

I am sure that some insurgents are, indeed, terrorists, but America is a democratic nation, not a terrorist organization as such. In that I support the democratic United States and oppose the likes of George Bush and Company, I support the democratic Hamas and oppose terrorists of all stripes and markings. I support the Universal Declaration of Human Rights by opposing all acts and movements that violate the intent of that document, whether a rogue band of thugs, or soldiers of the United States of America, Israel, or any other nation.

I sensed that you too, think as I do. I went wrong about you when you stated a belief that there are enough peaceful Israelis to respond to a decent impulse to oppose the violent installment of a Jewish state upon another people. That caused the reference to being astride of a fence with both feet on the same side. I should have noted that your feet are on the same side as mine, though I do not straddle the fence. I stand on solid principle far from the fence the divides the world.

The evidence is that there are not enough people in Israel to oppose their government policies and acts. But, like in the civil rights movement in America, forces of evil can be contained by law and custom. Non-violence is a slower way, but a better way. We agree on that.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., October 2, 2006 at 6:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #26521 by Fadel Abdallah on 9/30

Fadel, here is a comment published by one reader about the article by Prof. Nurit Peled-Elhanan. It shows the depths of hate by a Jewish Rabbi in support of human rights violations and violence against the Palestinian people and any peaceful Israeli or Jew. The senseless death of children brings out the blood lust of a man of religion. If that Rabbi represents any part of the Jewish people, they do not deserve the title of religion or advocate for the state of Israel or any other entity.

That’s a Rabbi!??????????????????????? That is what Palestine/Hamas is up against. Whence terrorism?

> From YOSI COHEN

Hello,
I read the article by Prof. Nurit Peled-Elhanan about the death of children. After reading this article I felt terrible that I am an Israeli.

I am disgusted at my government’s handling of the whole situation. I wish that Israel would change and that the first thing would be to arrest and then hang all you traitors and impose the death penalty (without trials) of all Arabs suspected of terrorism or aid and comfort to terrorists.

Arabs can live here, but not as citizens, but as residents. Jewish traitors like you and that son of that Jewish whore Arna Khamis Mer should be shot or expelled from our holy country.

Thank you,
Rabbi Moshe Ben-Hod

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By Tony Wicher, October 1, 2006 at 10:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #26521 by Fadel Abdallah on 9/30 at 10:22 pm

You say,

“scientist Richard Dawkins was the first to speak about viruses of the mind. Children, because their minds are gullible and open to almost any suggestion, are not immune to mental infections of all sorts of propaganda and fashion. They are easily persuaded to pierce their faces and tattoo their bottoms, to turn their hats around and bare their bellies, to believe in angels and fairies. They are equally easy to acquire political beliefs and to appropriate mental maps which will later influence their decisions on the question of the future borders of the state and on the necessity of war. All of Our children are mind-infected from an early age. So that by the time they are old enough to become real soldiers, they have already learned to be good soldiers, which means their minds are totally infected and they are incapable of questioning the ‘truth’ that has been inculcated to them. This is part of the explanation one can give to the terrible deeds that are committed today by good Israeli boys, who are characterized once and again as “people of values”.

I reply,

I do agree with every word of this. But I wonder if you would agree that boys raised as Muslims who commit suicide bombings are infected by essentially the same virus? Or do you think that they and those who send them are good “people of values”? Everybody can see the “viruses” of other people. Can you see your own?

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By Tony Wicher, October 1, 2006 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply to Comment #26500 by Frank Goodman, Sr.  on 9/30 at 5:58 pm to Comment #26467 by Tony Wicher on 9/30

Frank says” I am not sure where you stand, if you are, indeed, standing anyplace. As my father used to say, you straddle the fence with both feet on the same side. You seem to be a lover of Israel. You comment on how ‘civilized’ the Zionists are. I have quite a different take on civilization.”

I reply: Ah, Frank, your father is a wise man, and your objection is phrased so perfectly that I can help you understand my position. I did NOT say that the Zionists are civilized. QUITE THE CONTRARY. What I said was that I believe the “Jewish people” to be deeply civilized. That is a very, very different thing, since I agree with those Jews living in Israel and elsewhere who believe that Zionism is an illegitimate perversion of Judaism, and that it is essentially racist, so long as it demands that there must be a “Jewish state” where Jews are protected by a Jewish army. You and I should understand this as Americans who understand the basic principles of democracy. The Zionist government is an apartheid regime. That is what Jews and everyone else need to understand. I say that the Jewish people are deeply civilized, and will respond to nonviolent civil disobedience, when they stop seeing themselves as the victims (as indeed they were for thousands of years, although mostly in Christian countries, not Muslim ones) and see that now the shoe is on the other foot. They have the power, and now they are victimizing some other people. They cannot be compelled to see the injustice of their actions by violence - that will only exascerbate their persecution complex. But nonviolent resistance, I believe, will present a powerful image to their minds, and then the thousands of years of oppression that they had to endure will respond in a different way, when they see themselves in the face of their “enemy”. Then, I pray, they will get rid of the warmongering Zionist thugs who currently lead them, and elect non-Zionist leaders who will negotiate full repatriation for Palestinians and full constitutional democracy with equal protection for people of all religions.

Does that make it clear where I stand? Requests for further clarification are welcome.

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By Fadel Abdallah, September 30, 2006 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A super piece in the service of peace, by a super mother and super educator who has risen above her personal pain to become a warrior for peace and truthdigging. Lengthy, but worth the time; it might help you cry and it might purify your soul! Thought it is highly worth sharing!
============================================
Education or mind infection?
Posted: 30 Sep 2006 11:10 AM CDT
If you do not read anything else today, read the speech by Nurit, an Israeli women who lost her daughter to a Palestinian suicide bombing. I came to know that all in the audience, Christians, Muslims, and Jews literally cried. Read it and judge for yourself.

Education or mind infection?
By Nurit Peled-Elhanan*
Speech given at Connecticut College, New London, 09/27/06

I would like to dedicate these words to all the Palestinian boys and girls, and to all the Lebanese boys and girls, and to all the Iraqi boys and girls who have been massacred by mind-infected Israeli and American soldier boys, and who have recently joined my own little girl in the underground kingdom of dead children, which is growing under our feet as I speak. I would like to tell them not to worry. You will be well received there, children, and no one will hurt you just because you wandered off on your way to school or because you wore a scarf on your head or because you lived in a certain place. Rest in peace, everyone is equally worthy in your new world. This is the world where Israeli children dwell side by side with Palestinian children. There they lay, victims and murderers, whose bloods have long been absorbed by the holy land which has always been indifferent to blood. There they rest, all of them, victims of deceit.

All of you dead children were deceived, because your death has achieved nothing at all and the world goes on living as if your blood had never been shed. Because the leaders of the world keep playing their murderous games, using you as their dice and our grief as fuel for their killing machines. Because Children are abstract entities for generals and grief is a political tool. Living at both sides, that of the victims and that of the killers, I keep asking myself, what are the means by which good Israeli children are turned into murdering monsters, what are the means by which they are so mind-infected as to kill and torture and humiliate other children, their parents and grandparents, and sacrifice their own life for nothing but the folly and megalomania of their chiefs. In the so-called Western enlightened world everyone feels very well-founded when they blame Islam for suicide bombing and terror. But who would ever blame Judaism for murder? And yet, Ulta Orthodox Jewish children who have never left Brooklyn know that to kill Arabs is a ‘mitzva’ (holy commandment) for they are ‘vilde hayeths’ (wild beasts). And Israeli children actually commit the crimes of slaughter and torture. Neither Judaism nor Islam nor any religion for that matter are the cause for murder and terror. Racist education is. American imperialism is, and Israeli ruthless regime of occupation is. The women and children who suffer most from western violence today are Muslim women but racism has its way and the blame for their suffering is attributed to their being Muslim.

The western world today is infected with fear of Islam and of the Muslim womb. Great France of liberte egalite and fraternite is scared of little head-scarved girls, Jewish Israel calls in public speeches and schoolbooks the Arab citizens of Israel a demographic nightmare and the enemy from within. As for the Palestinians refugees living under occupation, they are defined in Israeli History schoolbooks as a ‘problem to be solved”. Not long ago the Jews were a problem to be solved.

This in spite the fact that the people who are destroying the world today are not Muslim. The people who are using the most sophisticated disastrous weapons to kill thousand of innocent civilians are not Muslim. They are Christian, and Jewish. Nevertheless people who belong to the Judeo-Christian cultures, who support American-British and Israeli crimes against humanity, and particularly against Muslims all over the world, people who send their children to fight these ruthless useless wars in the name of democracy and freedom which are cover names for greed and megalomania, dare call themselves enlightened and blame it all on some imaginary clash of civilizations.. What does this fear-stricken world offer as a solution to Palestinian , Iraqi or Afghan people who are harassed, abused, tortured and famished by western crimes and exploitation? The general offer this enlightened world gives them is: Be like us. Constitute a Democracy like ours, embrace our values which despise you, which consider you an inferior primitive lot to be cultivated or cleansed away.

This, ladies and gentlemen is the attitude that permit American soldiers to rape, torture and kill Muslim men women and children by the thousands, that permits Israeli soldiers to order Palestinian women to strip in front of their children for security reasons, jailers to keep them in inhuman conditions, without necessary hygienic aids, without clean water or clean mattresses and separate them from their breast-fed babies and toddlers. To block their way to education, to confiscate their lands, to destroy their water wells, to uproot their trees and to prevent them from working their fields. This is what permits Israeli pilots to drop a hundred bombs of one ton a day on the most crowded area in the world - Gaza. This is what permits Israel to issue racist laws that separate mothers from fathers and children. Palestinian Iraqi and Afghan women are mothers like me. And when they lose a child, even if it is one of 12, their pain is equal to mine. But in addition to losing their children they also lose their homes and their livelihood and their future because the world does not listen to their sufferings and does not punish their murderers. Their honour as women and mothers is crushed. Their identity is destroyed and their cry is not heard. their faith and customs, their centuries-old ways of life are disregarded and despised.

Not only American soldiers but also Israeli soldiers who actually perform massacres of ‘Arabs’ - Palestinian or Lebanese - may never see an Arab human face until they are drafted to the army, but they learn, for 12 long years, that these people are primitive, bear children in order to send them to the streets and throw stones at our peace-keeping soldiers, uneducated because they don’t receive our education, conniving and dirty because they have different notions about politeness, they dress differently and cover their heads with different pieces of cloth. Well, from my experience there are many more Kafiehs in the camp of peace lovers than there are kippas. Israeli children are deprived from knowing their immediate neighbours, their history and their culture and their merits. Israeli children are educated to see their neighbours as an unwanted element. This is not education, this is mind infection.

The scientist Richard Dawkins was the first to speak about viruses of the mind. Children, because their minds are gullible and open to almost any suggestion, are not immune to mental infections of all sorts of propaganda and fashion. They are easily persuaded to pierce their faces and tattoo their bottoms, to turn their hats around and bare their bellies, to believe in angels and fairies. They are equally easy to acquire political beliefs and to appropriate mental maps which will later influence their decisions on the question of the future borders of the state and on the necessity of war. All of Our children are mind-infected from an early age. So that by the time they are old enough to become real soldiers, they have already learned to be good soldiers, which means their minds are totally infected and they are incapable of questioning the ‘truth’ that has been inculcated to them. This is part of the explanation one can give to the terrible deeds that are committed today by good Israeli boys, who are characterized once and again as “people of values”. Therefore it is high time to ask, what values are these? The following lines are part of a personal preface by Tal Sela, one of my university students to his term-paper, which included the analysis of a History textbook:

On the 5th of September 1997 I found myself in Lebanon , on a rescuing mission . All my friends were in the battle, 12 soldiers were killed. The following days I was happy: ” I am alive, I survived” I said to myself. However, a year later I was in deep depression. Sad and morose. I decided to consult a psychologist. After a few sessions I was able to gather up my forces again, both physical and moral. I could reorganize my thoughts. Then I understood that the mental crisis I had was in fact a moral crisis, a crisis of consciousness. What I actually felt was frustration, shame and anger. … How could I be so gullible and let myself be duped? How can I explain that a man of peace, exposes himself to such a morbid experience of his own free will? Today, like every two weeks, I drove peace activists to the military check-points of the Israeli army in the occupied Palestinian territories. I saw an officer put tight handcuffs on a taxi driver because he failed to obey the soldiers’ order to park here and not there. “We told him a thousand times” the soldiers said. The man was lying on the ground in the worst heat of the summer, thirsty, for hours on end. His friend was luckier: He had to stand on his feet, in a cell, without handcuffs. What pushes these young Israeli boys to play the role of supreme judges until they lose all judgment? In my opinion it is the Grand Zionist Narrative which serves as a collective conscience to the whole Israeli society, explicitly as well as implicitly. This grand narrative is the system of values that makes us belong to this particular collective.

This is the system that dictates the relationships between us and the Palestinians. How else can one explain young people who were educated to love their neighbour as they love themselves killing their neighbours, destroying their educational institutions, their libraries and their hospitals, for no apparent reason other than their being neighbours? The only explanation is that their minds are infected by parents, teachers and leaders, who convince them that the others are not as human as we are, and therefore killing them is not real killing; it has other legitimating names such as “cleansing” “purifying”, “punishment”, “operation”, “mission”, “campaign” and “war”. Although I speak about Israeli boys this is not an Israeli affair because, as you know, the epidemic is worldwide. My nephew, Doroni, 7 years old, who lives in the US, came home on Halloween day and said he wanted to be a soldier, and then to go to Iraq and save America. How many American young men, ignorant as he is of the absurdity of this statement, actually went to Iraq and died there without knowing why, but with the words “save America” on their lips? The question is, how were these false values imprinted on their minds and how can they be erased?

The human psyche, says Dawkins, has two great sicknesses: the urge to carry vendetta across generations and the tendency to fasten group labels on people rather than see them as individuals. We all suffer because of labels, but only those of us who died because of labels have realized that the way to fight labels is to refuse labels. The way to defeat false value systems is to expose them. The viruses of the mind are only partially weakened by young people like Tal and other Israeli refusniks such as ‘Combatants for Peace’. But most of our mind infected children would not be free of the grip of those viruses until they find their final rest in the evergrowing, underground kingdom of dead children . Only there will they realize that is doesn’t matter whether their head was bare or not in a synagogue or a church or a mosque, whether they were circumcised or not, whether they pronounced forbidden words, ate pig or cow or whether they had a hot chocolate after their salami pizza just before they were blown up by someone who didn’t. Israeli, American, English, Italian mothers raise their children with all the love and care in order to sacrifice them to the god of death, as if their uterus is a national or rather an international asset. and fathers urge their children to commit themselves to armies whose interests have nothing to do with defense. And when these children die for the profits of somebody else their parents bear it with dignity and pride, as they were taught, put their dead children’s photographs on the mantelpiece and sigh: He was so handsome in uniform. It is time to tell these parents that no-one is handsome in the uniform of brutality. It is time to tell them uniforms and ranks and medals have become ugly. Tell them their dignity and pride are misplaced. It is time to tell Jewish people that the only way to discourage anti-Semitism is by condemning the only government in the world who deliberately sends young Jewish boys and girls to their certain death and who persecutes to the point of genocide a whole Semitic nation, explain to them that it is the Jewish government and the actions of its army, not some primordial hatred for the Jewish race, which are the reasons for the invention of the new sign we often see in pro-Palestinian demonstration, where the Star of David is equated with the swastika.

It is a terribly hard task for people who were educated in Israel or in the USA or in any other ‘western’ ‘democratic’ country, to admit we were raised on false racist values. On heterophobia. The only thing that can enhance such a change of spirit is the constant image of the mutilated small bodies of the victims of these values . Tomorrow is Yom Kippur, the holiest day for the Jews. On this day people are required to ask forgiveness. Not to forgive but to try and be forgiven. I would like to quote one stanza from a poem written by the late Hanoh Levin, one of Israel’s greatest playwrights, in the 1970s:

Dear Father, when you stand on my grave
Old and tired and very lonely,
And you see how they burry me in the ground
Ask me to forgive you my father.

We must all ask our children’s forgiveness for not being more alert, for not fighting hard enough to keep our promises for a better world, for not refusing the evil viruses before and for letting them be the victims of the horrible, mental infection we are all suffering from, to look at their innocent, astonished, disillusioned small faces and ask ourselves: why does that streak of blood rip the petal of their cheek??

* Dr. Nurit Peled-Elhanan is a Lecturer in Language Education at Hebrew University in Jerusalem specializing in discourse in Israeli education with emphasis on visual and verbal presentation of Palestinian and non-western Jews. In September 1997, Nurit’s daughter Samarder was killed by a Palestinian suicide bomber. She and her family are members of the Palestinian and Israeli Bereaved Families for Peace. Her two elder sons are active in the peace movements of the Refusenik and Combatants for Peace, a new movement of Israeli and Palestinian ex fighters. Dr. Peled-Elhanan is the recipient of the European Parliament 2001 Sakharov Prize for Human Rights and Freedom of Thought. She is now touring the US together with a Palestinian women (Hanan Abu Ghosh) who lost her 17 year old brother to Israeli gunfire.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., September 30, 2006 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment #26467 by Tony Wicher on 9/30

I am not sure where you stand, if you are, indeed, standing anyplace. As my father used to say, you straddle the fence with both feet on the same side. You seem to be a lover of Israel. You comment on how ‘civilized’ the Zionists are. I have quite a different take on civilization. I do support and encourage non-violent protest where it could do the job. Unfortunately, Zionists are not non-violent and could not understand cooperation in any sense of that word, because, as you know, they have been given special privilege in this life on this planet, ever since Abraham demonstrated that he was willing to kill his son as a sacrifice to God. Even when Jews lived among Christians in Europe, they had to have ghettos to flee to in order to get away from the Christians and their anti-Semitism. Only in Spain and North Africa were Jews able to live among the natives (Muslims) in peace and cooperation. In America, also, enough Jews have settled down in neighborhoods and learned to accept equality, even if they do not practice it in their synagogues.

Fadel, I received the same piece by Zahi Khouri, a Palestinian American Christian who made good in Palestine until the Zionists decided to kick him out. I got it from Sam Bahour, of El Bireh, Palestine. Sam is another Palestinian American who went to Palestine to help in nation building from the ground up. So much for Zionist cooperation for the good of peace. Both of these men are non-violent and peaceful.

I agree with Tony, passive resistance is better and more effective, even among thugs, but there comes a time of violence that violence is the only tool left. Blacks won more rights by passive resistance to southern white rednecks, than all the razor toting black thugs since the Civil War. A lot of blacks died trying to be peaceful before violence set in. Did you ever hear of the American southern phenomenon of ‘lynching’? Israel has its house demolition, targeted killing, and checkpoints. Palestinians have their stone throwing kids and their qassam rockets and suicide bombers. How come Israel needs walls, apache helicopters, and Caterpillar bulldozers to control the kids, young men and women who blow themselves up, and leaders who teach their people about human rights and fair elections?

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By Tony Wicher, September 30, 2006 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Reply Comment #25734 by Frank Goodman, Sr.  on 9/26 at 8:43 pm

Frank,

Yes, if the Palestinians would only adhere strictly to nonviolence, they would not have to recognize “the Zionist entity”. They could insist on full repatriation and a truly democratic state in the whole of Israel/Palestine where there is full constitutionally guaranteed equality of all peoples. I believe that the Jewish people are deeply civilized, and that such a nonviolent peace movement, if genuine, would quickly gain support among them. Fadallah, if you really care about your people, this is the way to go. Be a Mandela, a Gandhi, a Martin Luther King, and everything is possible. If you must be a martyr, then be a martyr for peace, like Gandhi, like King, not a martyr for war.

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By Tony Wicher, September 30, 2006 at 1:11 pm Link to this comment
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Comment on Comment #26102 by Barry on 9/28 at 11:56 am

The Palestinians have never agreed to give up terror for peace.  Israel has offerred everything if they would do that, and they refused and blew up bombs in our malls.  I’ve previously posted links to San Francisco Chronicle articles to this effect.

Israel is a legitimate state created at UN Mandate by the British at the end of their “empire,” just like dozens of other countries created by the European empires at their end.  The British tried to create 2 states, one for Jews and one for Arabs living here, but the Arabs refused and started the 1948 war.  Bad choice.

Lastly, checkpoints will stop when terror stops.  Until terror stops, checkpoints are the only thing stopping my kids from being killed in malls.  If terror stops, and a Palestinian state is created, the border can be just like the US/Mexico border.  But with terror, that’s not an option.

————————————————————————

Israel is not a legitimate state. It is an apartheid state. For this reason it should not be recognized. But let me ask you this: in return for an absolute guarantee of non-violence on the part of the Palestinians, would Israel be willing to repatriate every Palestinian refugee and treat each one as the full equal of any persecuted Jew arriving from another country? Would they be willing to invite the Palestinians to help them write a constitution with ironclad guarantees of non-discrimination and separation of church and state?

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By Fadel Abdallah, September 30, 2006 at 10:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

A good piece I thought worth sharing!
================================================
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB115957283766178726.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

Things Go Better With Rights
By ZAHI KHOURI
September 30, 2006; Page A8

In 1995, I moved from a comfortable life in America to Ramallah, Palestine , to invest in the most American of businesses there. I was instrumental in bringing Coca-Cola to the Middle East in the early 1980s; after the Oslo Peace Accords were signed I decided to launch the Coke franchise in the West Bank and Gaza .

Over the last decade, the business has grown. Today, Coca-Cola employs hundreds of Palestinians and sells 10 million cases of Coke a year.

As a Palestinian American, this was more than a moneymaking venture. Each gleaming bottle, with that red Coca-Cola swirl in both Arabic and English, would be a miniature ambassador from America . And each potential investor who saw that Coke was successful might decide to invest as well. It seemed the perfect strategy: to promote American interests while helping to build an economy that could serve as the foundation of a viable, independent Palestinian state.

Following the peace accords, scores of other Palestinian Americans moved to the West Bank and Gaza . Professors came to teach at universities. Doctors came to help modernize the healthcare system and treat patients. Artists came to exhibit and perform. Other business professionals came to invest, modernize the economy and create jobs. Each, in their way, wanted to help build an independent Palestine . Each served as the real ambassadors of America , so different from the American-made Apache helicopters and F-16 fighter jets Israel uses to rain destruction on the Palestinian economy, cities and villages.

But Israel has decided that we Americans are not welcome. Many, like me, have lived in the West Bank for more than a decade. Unlike American Jews—or Jews from anywhere—who can receive instant citizenship upon arrival, we are unable to obtain residency. Instead, we Christian and Muslim Palestinians must rely on our American passports, renewing our tourist visas every three months. A hassle, yes, but the only way to stay in Palestine , often in the homes our families have inhabited for generations.

Since Hamas assumed government authority after democratic elections this year, Israel has begun to deny Palestinian Americans the right to enter. We are left to wonder why.

This new policy could be another turn of the screw to pressure Hamas. It could be manufactured as a painless concession for future negotiations. It could be one more tactic in Israel ‘s drive—which began in 1948 with the expulsion of more than 700,000 Palestinians—to empty as much land of as many Palestinians as possible.

We do not know the reason for denying entry to Palestinian Americans. But we do know the result. In addition to breaking families apart—for example one spouse with children in the West Bank, and the other unable to return from visits to the U.S.—it is discouraging investors. It is driving out the very people the U.S. State Department, the World Bank and other international organizations encouraged to return. We are the ones building businesses, creating jobs and inspiring hope for a better future.

Using the pretext of security, Israeli policies of home demolitions, land confiscation, restrictions on movement and construction of the separation wall have choked the Palestinian economy. According to the U.N., more than 540 checkpoints and other structures impede movement throughout the West Bank, and crossings into Gaza are rarely open. Gaza represents 30% of the Palestinian economy. Yet we cannot ship goods from the West Bank to Gaza . And Gaza cannot import raw materials for processing, even though it possesses a talented labor force. Israel has also been refusing to turn over nearly $55 million a month (now totaling roughly $400 million) in Palestinian tax revenue. With the cutoff of international aid, this has led to a humanitarian catastrophe. Since March, Palestinian Authority employees—about one-quarter of the labor force—have not received their salaries.

Israel will not gain security by creating Mogadishu next to Silicon Valley . Only an open and thriving Palestinian economy can lay the foundation for a sustainable peace.

Our humanitarian crisis is not the result of a natural catastrophe. There was no tsunami, earthquake or drought. We helped to build nations. We have the natural resources and human capital to build a thriving, stable Palestinian economy as well. We do not need international handouts. We need the free movement of people and goods. We need unrestricted gateways between the occupied Palestinian territory and the rest of the world.

American policy makers have tremendous influence with Israel . They should use it to insist on freedom of movement of people and goods, and to maintain access for Palestinian Americans and Palestinians with other foreign passports to continue to play a role in economic development. A vibrant Palestinian economy serves the interests of all—Palestinians, Israelis and Americans.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., September 30, 2006 at 6:46 am Link to this comment
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Re: Comment #26332 by Spinoza on 9/29

Unfortunately, the cause of any form of dictatorship, whether it is an absolute monarchy, or a political dictatorship such as Fascist Italy, Nazi Germany, Imperial Japan, or USSR, is a legitimacy granted by the people by means of surrender of their democratic rights, voting into power of despotic leaders who then seizes absolute power by force, intimidation or gradually by default because the dictator is accepted by the majority.

The only legitimacy that Israel has to occupy Palestine is granted by enough of the people of the world who accept it. The only reason the United States is able to occupy Iraq is that the world did not prevent it. The world did not prevent it because it was a de facto acceptance of Super Power America by the rest of the world. The only reason that the President of the United States is seen as the “leader of the free world”, is that the people of the free world allow themselves to be led by the likes of George Bush. (An oxymoron* because free people would not accept the likes of George Bush.) It is legitimacy because the world elected to accept George Bush by not acting to prevent him from taking power over them.

No, danger is not from dictators or terrorists. They are reflections of the will of the people. When there is no injustice, there is no terrorism. When there is true democracy and populations willing to defend it, there are no dictators. When people do not accept the ‘divine right of kings’, there are no monarchies. When the people rise up in revolution, there is no tyranny. But, peace is temporary until enough complacency sets in to allow another dictator to rise to power over the people who put him there.

One free man cannot save us from tyranny. We are all free or none of us are. A revolution may be violent or peaceful. Make it peaceful and violence is unnecessary. When violence is not necessary, there is no terrorism or war.

(* An oxymoron is anyone who wastes oxygen by breathing it.)

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By Spinoza, September 29, 2006 at 2:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Please people circulate this widely around the web.


http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article15156.htm

A Personal Declaration of Independence

I refuse to accept as my government actions by the current administration and its obsequious servants, the Republican Congress and the Republican Senate.

By William A. Cook

“If there’s any comparison between the compassion and decency of the American people and the terrorist tactics of extremists, it’s flawed logic … It’s unacceptable to think that there’s any kind of comparison between the behavior of the United States of America and the action of Islamic extremists who kill innocent women and children to achieve an objective.” (President George W. Bush, Sept. 15, 2006 report by AP’s Terence Hunt)

09/29/06 “Palestine Chronicle”—- -Citizens of the United States of America bear an awesome responsibility to maintain control of their government’s behavior since that government derives its powers from the consent granted it by the citizens. When the government ceases to act in accord with the dictates of the respective consciences of its citizens as determined by its foundational documents – the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights—, when it violates the established principles that give this nation legitimacy before the nations of the world through mutually accepted agreements, charters, and conventions, when it abrogates the inalienable rights granted the citizens by the Creator, when it declares unequivocally that the citizens cannot dissent with an action or actions taken by the government, then it is the right and the duty of the citizen to “alter or abolish” that government.

For the past five years, the present government of the United States, including the Executive branch, the Congress and the Senate, has committed a “long train of abuses and usurpations pursuing invariably the same object (that) evinces a design to reduce them (the citizens) under absolute despotism.” As a citizen of these United States for 70 years, I refuse to be ruled by a tyrant who imposes despotic, autocratic control on the citizens of these United States through a series of clandestine actions that usurp the rights of the people.

I refuse to accept as my government actions by the current administration and its obsequious servants, the Republican Congress and the Republican Senate, that include

spying on its citizens without their knowledge or consent, an action contrary to existing law;


elimination of personal privacy through the Patriot Act, an action that presumes culpability, not innocence until proven guilty;


preemptive invasion of other nations determined by the unilateral judgment of an all powerful executive that eviscerates the power of the peoples’ representatives;


acts of extrajudicial execution and the abandonment of rule by law thereby making the President, in effect, judge, jury and executioner;


acts of torture and the unilateral infliction of “acceptable” torture techniques thus casting America before the world as an amoral nation beholden to no international agreement and placing at risk the soldiers who defend it;


imposition of illegal actions of war instituted through an orchestrated control of lies communicated to the citizenry thereby negating their democratic right to know that they might vote in accord with their conscience;


levying an incredible tax burden on the citizens to pay for the consequences of these lies that will cost them and their children dearly for decades to come while corporations reap a windfall of profit from closed bids and corruption;


infliction of a forced military occupation on a nation against the desires of its people and enabling that occupation to use illegal weapons of war contrary to the Geneva Conventions thus implicating its citizens in acts against humanity;


development of diverse nuclear weaponry in direct violation of the UN Charter even as it decries other nations for attempting to acquire their own nuclear weaponry;


acceptance, indeed, complete complicity and support of the barbaric and genocidal actions of the state of Israel against the people of Palestine, and most recently, and most deplorably, the abandonment of all pretense to the behavior of a civilized nation through its almost unanimous acceptance of a resolution written by the American Israeli Political Action Committee to endorse the Israeli state’s wanton destruction of the state of Lebanon.

These are not the actions of a democratic state; these are the actions of an autocratic state, an amoral state, an arrogant state that rules by force and acts more ruthlessly than the “extremists who kill innocent women and children to achieve an objective,” negating by its actions the unthinkable comparison the President decried.

For six years I have tracked the deception of this government as it surreptitiously acted to acquire more and more power by instilling in the American people the fear necessary to propel the autocrat to absolute power. Fear suppresses individual inquiry even as it enables control of the people, ostensibly to provide protection for them. Fear creates victims, especially in the minds of those who have not been violated. It is the unknown, what might be that metastasizes into the mental slave, the compliant citizen who marches to the drum of those who would control a society. It is the instrument of tyrants and dictators.

This government hobbles its citizens by using fear to manipulate their belief in end time prophecy, by implanting fear of imminent threat from “Islamofacist” fanatics, and by immersing the people in a false sense of “victim hood” that links them with the state of Israel as the only “friend” in the mid-east suffering from the same terrorist scourge. It is time to dispel this fear that enslaves. It is time to declare that this government no longer serves the people, that, indeed, it surpasses in its behavior “the action of Islamic extremists who kill innocent women and children to achieve an objective.” It is not the “compassion and decency of the American people” that is in question; it is the absence of “compassion and decency” in this administration that is at fault.

It is time to withdraw recognition of it as the government of these United States.


More, read it all

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By Denis Drew, September 29, 2006 at 9:17 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Barry,
“The Palestinians have never agreed to give up terror for peace.”

So many Israelis act like creating settlements was like normal moving into normal neighborhoods and that terror is some kind of anti-semitic reaction by Arabs who hate Jews and don’t want the near by.

The West Bank and Gaza may not seem like a soveriegn nation because Israel did not leave the Palestinians much.  But if Jews need their own homeland so desperately that they would push another people out—why don’t Palestinians need THEIR OWN HOMELAND just as much?

To put the shoe on the other foot: suppose Palestinians returned to the West Bank after being away 2000 years and found long standing settlements—wouldn’t the Palestinians have the right to push the settlers out because of their need their own Palestinian homeland?  Israel is an Israeli homeland to paraphrase Sharon.

What remains of Palestine for Palestinians is their homeland, not a neighborhood for you people to take over with violence.

I am not approving terror against civilians.  I would suggest that keeping a perpetual war going for 100% of your people—endangering even your kids when they go for a pizza—just to maintain 7-8% of Israelis on land they do not need is about as bad a deal as any nation can choose for itself.

Maintaining settlements on another’s land is plainly understood everywhere but vastly under-informed by its media (that is changing) America as an almost unique (does China build Chinese-only roads in Tibet?) act of war and aggression—it is nothing at all like moving into the deserts of New Mexico as so many Israelis seem to see it; miracles or no miracles.

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By Kwagmyre, September 29, 2006 at 8:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Posted by Barry:

“Israel has offerred everything if they would do that, and they refused and blew up bombs in our malls.”

So, what do you expect?  Of course, they resort to that when the continuation of the Apartheid like occupation in the West Bank and Jerusalem
deprives them of a just humanity and subjects them to this chronic humliation.

Maybe you’ve heard the expression, “What goes around comes around?”

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By Spinoza, September 28, 2006 at 9:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m very impressed with Frank Goodmans comments and proposals.

There are many good people with good ideas around.

However, I can’t see how these good ideas are to get implemented when so many people believe that might is right.

All Out October 5th

http://worldcantwait.com

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., September 28, 2006 at 9:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment #26102 by Barry on 9/28 at 11:56 am

“The Palestinians have never agreed to give up terror for peace.”

You lie or are incredibly ignorant. Palestine has always held out the prospect of an end to the conflict in exchange for justice for Palestinians.

“Israel is a legitimate state…”

Not true. Israel was created by declaring their own state on land taken by force and intimidation from unarmed Palestinians. The United Nations plan was rejected by the Palestinian people as unfair and a violation of their rights. The ratification of the formation of the state of Israel conflicts with the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That violation was partnered by America, Britain, and other members of the United Nations in violation of the very Charter that formed the United Nations.

“Lastly, checkpoints will stop when terror stops.”

True! When the terror of Israel against the Palestinian people stops, the checkpoints will be brought down by a nation that has learned its lesson in human rights and morality. Justice in the first place would have prevented them from being erected.

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By Robert, September 28, 2006 at 3:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment # 26102 on 9/28

There goes the propaganda & lies again. In Barry’s(Israeli settler’s) mentality, Israel can do no wrong.Apparently his vision & mind are set and locked.

Since September 28,2005 to the present,according to the figures of B’Tselem, the Israeli Information Center For Human Rights in the Occupied Territories,the record shows that over 3,000 Palestinians have been killed,and approximately 900 Israelis have been killed.

When one looks at the findings of the human rights supports…B’Tselem,Amnesty International,Human Rights Watch,Physicians For Human Rights in Israel…they all say that Israel uses reckless indiscriminate fire against the Palestinians.B’Tselem says the civilian casualties with over 600 hundred Palestinian children killed which is approximately the total number of Israeli civilians killed.

When there is so many civilians killed, B’Tselem says it hardly makes a difference whether you are purposely targeting them or not,Israel is responsible.

So,one can conclude that Israel- using numbers, now…is responsible for 3 (three) times as much terrorism in the Occupied Territories as the Palestinians against Israel. THAT IS THE QUESTION OF TERRORISM !!!

According to B’Tselem & Human Rights watch…Israel has tortured tens of thousands of Palestinian detainees. Israel is the only country in the world,the only one, which had legalized torture from 1987 to 1999. The Israeli record on torture & on house demolitions is sinful. 

Currently there is about 10,000 Palestianians in Israeli prisons and the majority of them without any charges. The house demolitions are on-going.

Let me pose 3 relavent questions to Barry.

1)Is Israel ready to agree to fully withdraw, according to UN resolution 242, from all 1967 Occupied Territories (East Jerusalem,West Bank,Golan Heights, and Gaza)for a peace settlement with the Palestinians (Palestinian State), Jordan & Syria?.

2) Is Israel ready to stop all expansions of existing settlements & and the building of new ones?.

3)Will Israel compensate the Palestinians for all their losses as a result of the conflict?

Barry, the answers are simple…yes or no!!!

If the answers are yes, please give us the dates when the above can be accomplished.

According to your above statement # 26102, “Israel has offered everything”.

Looking forward to your comment/input.

Best Regards.

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By Ron, September 28, 2006 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This issue of the US backing Israel no matter how insane they act must become a national debate.  Perhaps it is time to make it a referendum in the 2008 US Presidential elections?

US foreign policy has to change to where all participants in the area of the Middle East are treated equally and fairly.

To me, one of the major obstacles to peace is the city of Jerusalem. Israel has absolutely no right to occupy that city; the capital of Israel is in Tel Aviv.

http://www.arabmediawatch.com/amw/CountryBackgrounds/Palestine/EastJerusalem/JerusalemisNottheCapitalofIsrael/tabid/308/Default.aspx

The world, backed by the US should remove Israel from Jerusalem and then make it a “free” city under International Jurisdiction.  Put the United Nations’ headquarters in Jerusalem.  It’s citizens would be like those in Washington DC or the Vatican.  Make it a secular city where anyone can worship their God of Choice.

The infrastructure of Palestine should receive massive direct aid from the US and ASAP.  Instead of building walls in Israel, we should be building schools, hospitals, and starting and funding other humanitarian projects in Palestine.  A visible US presence in Palestine will go along way toward creating good will in that region.  Instead of fomenting hatred, the US will be seen as a real entity in the world peace process.  If 1/10 of the billions wasted in Iraq were given directly to the Palestinians, imagine how different the world would be for our children and their children.  For God’s sake, give the Palestinians a home land and a reason to stop killing themselves.

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By Barry, September 28, 2006 at 11:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Palestinians have never agreed to give up terror for peace.  Israel has offerred everything if they would do that, and they refused and blew up bombs in our malls.  I’ve previously posted links to San Francisco Chronicle articles to this effect.

Israel is a legitimate state created at UN Mandate by the British at the end of their “empire,” just like dozens of other countries created by the European empires at their end.  The British tried to create 2 states, one for Jews and one for Arabs living here, but the Arabs refused and started the 1948 war.  Bad choice.

Lastly, checkpoints will stop when terror stops.  Until terror stops, checkpoints are the only thing stopping my kids from being killed in malls.  If terror stops, and a Palestinian state is created, the border can be just like the US/Mexico border.  But with terror, that’s not an option.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., September 28, 2006 at 5:21 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Deb Reich

I presented a comparable concept of an overlay state of Palestine/Israel
some time ago in a forum.

Here is the concept:

The United States of America has overlay jurisdictions. They function
quite well though jurisdiction is a problem in law. Miami, is a city
in Dade County in the state of Florida, in the United States. Miami
has its statutes, Dade County has its statutes, Florida has its
statutes, and there is federal law, a state constitution, and a federal
constitution. Overlaid is a body of common law and practice.

Within the city of Miami, there are private associations, businesses,
families, churches, synagogues, mosques, temples, fraternal
organizations, schools, and unions. Each has its set of rules and laws.
All work together by linkage with the legal jurisdictions. The
constitution of the United States guarantees equality before the law for
each individual person within the jurisdiction of the federation. Any
person is free to associate with any non-governmental group he/she
choses that will admit him/her to membership or association. All within
a governmental jurisdiction are subject to the laws of that
jurisdiction. Anyone is free to move from Miami to another city, or
from another city to Miami. Any person is free to move from Florida to
any other state. And any person is free to disassociate his citizenship
from the United States of America in favor of any nation that will admit
him/her to citizenship.

The key to success is the assumption of equality and freedom of
movement. Personal rights include freedom of religion and freedom from
religion. Religion can govern only by voluntary association and
membership. Religion cannot encroach upon civil rights nor civil rights
upon unique religious practice.

In a state of Palestine/Israel, there could be four or more overlay
jurisdictions. One could be called Israel, another Palestine, and a
third could be called ‘none of the above’. If Christians wished to
disassociate themselves from Muslims for purposes only they could
understand, a fourth overlay domain could be Christian Palestine. Civil
law could overlay all other law to assure equality before the law and
rule affairs of commerce and contracts.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., September 28, 2006 at 5:11 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Here I paste an article by Deb Reich. I have long believed in this solution to the problem of Palestine/Israel. I have described a similar overlay state.

Calling All Semites

By Deb Reich

02 September, 2006
Countercurrents.org

Writing from my great love for all my sisters and brothers and cousins and sons and daughters in the Semitic family, at this hour of bloodshed and despair, I call you to open your eyes and your hearts now, today, and see what has been hidden from you - right before your eyes.

In Palestine and Israel, our shared choice is not complicated, as the analysts and commentators seem to think. Our options are starkly simple: to compete endlessly at this game of mutual destruction until we achieve it (taking some large chunk of the rest of the world with us, perhaps), or to cooperate from now on at mutual co-living, co-creating, and co- advancement (thereby crafting a precious new social paradigm for ourselves and all humanity).

I and others have suggested a way out of our dilemma and I will present it again here, in my own style, as simply as possible.

First, to those who remain committed to violence, militancy, and arms, I say: Open your eyes! To subdue your neighbor by force is to shoot your own grandchildren through the heart – because no people remains subdued forever and when they rise again, your children’s children will pay the price. Equally true if harder to accept is that, however legitimate your uprising may be deemed by any impartial judge, throwing off your neighbor’s oppression by force means that you become him, and so the cycle continues.

Another aspect of this puzzle has become clear lately: the unintended consequences of success. Israel has succeeded in becoming a world-class military power, but what has that achieved? The armed struggle has succeeded in making the Palestinian independence movement a presence on the world stage, while also making the world blind to the majestic dimensions of Palestinian civilian endurance and heroic efforts at constructive nation-building – so what has been achieved?

Exclusive sovereignty reconsidered

Let us consider, calmly, our longstanding attempt in Israeli/Palestine to make this bit of land ours at the expense of our cousins. Arguably, it goes back to the time of Abraham, Sarah, and Hagar, so there’s little to be gained by talking about 1967 or 1948 or 1929 or 1880- something or the Middle Ages or the birth of Jesus as the ultimate reference point. Elsewhere I have called this process “peeling the onion of blame” – analyzing successive layers of history, backward in time, weeping all the while - until left with a pile of onion peels and an ocean of tears, and little else. Let’s abandon that approach!

Granted that groups of people develop a passionate attachment to pieces of territory; this is natural and perhaps universal. Yet nowhere in nature is it written that this attachment must be one of ownership, or that this attachment can be or should be exclusive. Indeed, many cultures that live close to the land find the idea of owning it ridiculous (Does the flea own the dog?); they know that our proper role is to learn to serve the land, to be its stewards. In the tradition of the story of King Solomon and the two women claiming to be the mother of the same child, the real mother proved her greater love not by hanging on, but by letting go. If uprooting olive trees one by one is like pulling your baby’s fingernails out, one by one, how can we pretend to love this land? If bombing a restaurant (in person) or an apartment building (from the air) kills even one innocent baby, what would Solomon say about our love for this land’s children? How can anyone pretend to truly love this land when they demonstrate their love by strangling it with checkpoints, soaking it in violence and drenching it in blood?

The way out of this trap is to see that our attachment to the land need not be exclusive. Human culture in the last fifty years has stumbled on a new and useful way to view this question. Half a century ago, mathematicians began elaborating a mathematical model for multiple parallel universes, suggesting that the reality we know may be but one reality in an endless series of multiple, parallel universes – not science fiction, but science. In creating the Windows system for the personal computer, cyberpioneers translated this notion into something useful for all of us: multiple programs are open, all are equally “present,” but we are paying attention primarily to only one at a time. Psychologists and anthropologists have been telling us for years that life is about what we pay attention to: that there are potentially many realities to be experienced and that the one we live in is constructed by what our culture teaches us to notice, and what to ignore. Mystics have said the same thing for centuries but too few of us have gotten the message yet.

On a metaphorical level, in the Semitic Middle East, multiple realities have long been a fact of everyday life. Go to Tel Aviv, show any Jew a map of the land between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea and ask: What place is this? and be told: Israel. Go to Nablus, show the same map to a Palestinian and ask the same question, and be told: Palestine. -What is that, if not parallel realities?

Parallel sovereignty, the new paradigm

This line of reasoning suggests that we can actually have our cake and eat it too. Instead of dividing up this land in a way acceptable to no one, keep it whole and give it to everyone. Greater Israel and Greater Palestine, in this model, simply exist, simultaneously, in the same territory, with the same national boundaries - in parallel universes: each with its own flag, anthem, and membership in the UN. Each with its own government, foreign service, and taxes. Call it a new form of confederation or the actualization of parallel realities – the terminology is not central. Other nations have crafted their own approaches to sharing (Belgium; Switzerland); we can, too.

Many practical challenges would remain about how to divide the pie in the here-and-now. These are challenges that teams of professionals could address together at length, but there are also tremendous immediate advantages. Perhaps the most signal advantage is that the competing claims of religious orthodoxies are served rather than ignored or discounted. Islam does not have to concede territory it once governed; Judaism does not have to relinquish the graves of the ancestors. Who dares to say that, if the prophets of old were alive today, they would fail to embrace a new conceptual paradigm that pointed the way to greater lovingkindness and cooperation? What has prophecy always been, if not the embrace of new conceptual paradigms?

If this model seems vague to you, here is a simple illustration of the principle. Consider a modern supermarket in a large shopping center. You drive there with your car and park in a parking space which is used, the rest of the time, by other people. It’s not your parking space; you don’t own it; but you don’t need to own it. Then you take a shopping cart which is not your cart, which is used by others all day long, and you walk up and down the aisles of the supermarket, which do not belong to you exclusively, and you take food off the shelves and put it in your cart. After paying for the food and returning the cart, you pull your car out of the parking space and drive home. Here, the metaphor reaches its limit. You do want to go home in your own car to your own house and you don’t want to find that someone else has moved in while you were shopping; and you do want the food you have bought to be eaten by your own family, not someone else’s.

In Palestine/Israel, there is enough for everyone as long as we differentiate between sharing a parking space or a shopping cart (painless), and driving someone else’s car home with her groceries in it and feeding them to our own family, or moving our family into her home.

We can have truth and reconciliation commissions on the South African model to deal with defining what is a land grab, and what is not; repatriation of the exiles, confession, compensation, forgiveness, and all the other thorny questions. They can be solved, but we need to put the basic paradigm in place first. When we can see one another as resources rather than threats, we will be able to solve anything. First comes the vision; then the details. And at the risk of repeating myself: the vision comes from love – not from anger.

Somewhere on the West Bank is a hard-working Palestinian farmer whose son Ahmad dreams of studying computer science, while Michal, the daughter of an Israeli scientist friend of mine, studied agriculture at the Hebrew University and dreams of working in organic agriculture. Why can’t Michal work with farmers on the West Bank to make their produce more marketable in Europe, while Ahmad studies computers at Bir Zeit University or – yes! – Hebrew University, if he wants to? That is the future we can have, together. If we visualize it, commit ourselves utterly to achieving it, and labor lovingly to bring it into being – and if we do not permit ourselves to be deflected by enticements from the realm of the illusory and unattainable ultimate victory – then we can have it. And the rest of the world out there, which is more than sick of us now, sick of our bickering and bloodshed and brutality – the world will stand and applaud. But first we have to get a grip, and do the work.


Deb Reich is a writer and translator in Israel/Palestine. Contact her at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) .


© Deborah Reich 2006. Reproduction with attribution is encouraged.

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By Justice4All, September 28, 2006 at 4:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“I lived through dozens of bombs in Jerusalem, several of which I was a few blocks from, and yet supported the Gaza pullout and West Bank planned pullout”

Palestinians have been living through decades of Israeli oppression, terror and torture.

Israel pulled out of Gaza (and turned it into a big prison) because the financial and logistic costs of maintaining 8,000 settlers amidst 1 million Palestinians were mounting. It was not done for the goodness in its heart or for its pursuit for peace.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., September 27, 2006 at 7:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re: Comment #25887 by Barry on 9/27

You just don’t get it, do you? You can have peace anytime you are willing to give up your expectation of taking over the rest of Palestine. You have been offered peace many times on the 1967 line, with East Jerusalem as capital of Palestine. You have been offered peace many times with the proviso that you pay the families of Palestinians whose homes and businesses were destroyed or stolen, a compensation for what was taken from them. You have been offered peace many times provided that Palestinians could return to their homes or purchase replacements. Israel is an illegitimate state built upon the land of Palestine against the spirit and letter of the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights. It could gain legitimacy by returning the 22% of Palestine taken in 1967. Israel could pay its debt to the world for the land it stole by buying it at a fair price now. Israel could learn to live with Arabs in peace and cooperation in mutual interest. The Palestinian people have signaled that they would give up the right of occupancy of Israel for the 22% without any Jews living in settlements. The Palestinian people would accept any Jew who chose to remain in Palestine and live under its laws in its economy.

Every time peace was in sight your politicians pulled back and your army moved in. Terror has to stop. First by Israel, then by Palestine. Zionist initiated terror in Palestine prior to 1948 and it continues to this day. Arab terrorism began late in the game. There was no suicide bombers prior to 1983, but it was in Lebanon. The first recorded suicide bomber in Israel was December 1987. There was violence in early Palestinian attempts to regain their stolen lands. Most efforts were military or quasi-military. The first Jewish terrorist attacks were prior to 1948.

Yes terrorism must stop by both Israel and Palestine. Yes terrorism as a tool to retake lands lost to an invading band of refugees from Europe must stop. Talk peace in sensible terms and terrorism will cease by Palestinians. Join Palestine in economic ventures that develop that land and stop killing Palestinian men, women, and children, and Palestinians will join you in peace and cooperation for a greater Israel/Palestine. Peace and injustice cannot coexist. Aggression and peace cannot coexist. And Israel with 2nd, 3rd, and 4th class citizens cannot exist as a democracy.

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By Kwagmyre, September 27, 2006 at 5:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Posted by Barry:

“But terror simply needs to stop.”

If so, then it MUST be a mutual policy meaning it equally applies to the “mental” or “psychological” terror that’s inflicted on the Palestinians when they’re being humiliated so persistently and painfully at checkpoints.  This is degredation pure & simple which you cannot deny.

But from where you’re coming from, you really can’t empathize with that.

And you’re hardly alone in this regard.  When we in the U.S. have shown the same kinds of humiliating treatment toward our ethnic minorities(going back to the brutal treatment of slaves in the 17th and 18th centuries) it inevitably created intense rage, whose fallout is with us to this day.

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By Robert, September 27, 2006 at 2:35 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Prof. Norman Finkelstein’s Scholarly Data,Figures,Analysis VS. Propaganda & Lies: 
==================================================

I have just read some of the comments that were submitted in the last few days regarding # of refugees,terrorism,Oslo accord,peace negotiations of 2000 & Taba….etc.

After watching the debate(02/14/2006) between Prof. Norman Finkelstein & Shlomo Ben-Ami,former Israeli foreign minister, I must say that Prof. Finkelstein’s data,historical facts,definition of terrorism,peace talks content & results,state terrorism,and many other details / references…regarding the Israeli/Palestinian conflict were outstanding.I was astonished with his scholarly details, accuracies & fairness.

The video eliminates & refutes the propaganda & lies that were submitted on this forum.

One can watch an edited video version of the debate by clicking on:

http://www.democracynow.org/index.pl?issue=20060214

Click on Headlines For February 14,2006 and click on Watch 128k stream or 256k stream.

One can also read the complete transcript & listen to MP3 audio.

As I have stated in several of my previous comments, we don’t see those kind of debates on CNN,Fox News,MSNBC,& the mainstream US media.

Amy Goodman on Democracy Now is brilliant.

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By Barry, September 27, 2006 at 1:41 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m not making generalizations, I live here, I’m making simple observations.

I lived through dozens of bombs in Jerusalem, several of which I was a few blocks from, and yet supported the Gaza pullout and West Bank planned pullout.  And I’ve seen the destruction in Sderot from the over 800 missiles shot from Gaza, which resulted in the West Bank pullout being delayed and contributed to the Lebanon invasion.  And I’ve had neighborhood friends and children fighting in Lebanon, a place we thought we withdrew from.

The Palestinians could have had a state in 1948, and 2000, and now.  Then we can have joint multinational tech parks and the like.  But terror simply needs to stop.

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By Kwagmyre, September 27, 2006 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Posted by Barry:

“Fadel’s comments of violence reflect the feelings and actions of the Palestinian people.”

That’s just the sort of “implied” generalization you’re making that causes the feeling of mutual distrust afflicting both sides in the never-ending conflict.

Of course there are elements of violence characterizing SOME of the Palestinian people.  And the same thing could be said of the Fundamentalist leaning settlers who were the staunchest supporters for the fanatic that assassinated Rabin eleven years ago.

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By Barry, September 27, 2006 at 12:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Re Comment #25734 by Frank Goodman:

Fadel’s comments of violence reflect the feelings and actions of the Palestinian people.

Frank Goodman says that his own words of peaceful resistance are “still cogent and right,” but they’re theoretical when they only come from California.  My concern has never been theory, it’s been with the reality that the Palestinians feel and act as Fadel said, and the resulting terror intentionally targeting Israeli civilians.

Rather than pushing Fadel not to express on this forum what the Palestinians are expressing explosively every day in the Middle East, we should change the discussion on this forum to reflect the reality of the Palestinians feelings and actions.  Then maybe this forum can actually say something real.

Thank you Fadel for showing this forum why Israel’s repeated attempts to disengage and give the Palestinians a country have all failed.

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By Frank Goodman, Sr., September 26, 2006 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Comment #25554 by Fadel Abdallah on 9/25

Fadel, you do an injustice to the Palestinian cause by dreaming out loud of violence and terrorism. This plays into the hands of the Zionists who now have the mind and heart of the likes of George Bush & company. The peace movement for Palestine has no role for violence except in self defense. If you are a violent person by nature, please disassociate yourself from this cause. Terrorists have done great harm to the cause of the Palestinian people. Time to halt it and go for true peace. Do not try to match the warmongers body for body. Argue for justice and human rights. Your dream is one of an imperialist disaster. Neither Islam nor human rights can be served with violence except defensive fights in jihad. Jihad is not an active principle to force your will or the will of Allah upon the enemy. It is a defensive right of all people. Do not instigate a fight, but when a fight is brought to you, or if you must defend your home, family, and freedom, do so in the name of Allah. When diplomacy can win the jihad, do not fight wars.

Your comment has undone thousands of words I have written to defend the right of Palestinian people to their land and homes. My words are still cogent and right. The enemies of justice will use your words against you and me, with good reason. They can point to your name, which I commented on in a previous entry, and justify all manner of violence against Middle Easterns with Muslim sounding names. Be true to your name. Abdallah was the father of The Prophet PBUH. Abdallah means servant of God. Be a servant of God, not a terrorist in this fight for justice.

I can understand your frustration and anger, but limit your response to advocacy of peaceful cooperation and settlement of the issues. If you have any influence with any friends or family, urge them to do the same in the name of Islam. You cannot combat Zionist terrorism with Islamic terrorism.

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By Barry, September 26, 2006 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Check out:

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm

They compiled a list of Islamic terror activity in the US in the past 35 years.  Almost 300 killed not even including 9/11.  Scores more injured.

Terror simply has to stop.  If terror will stop, Israel can disengage, our kids can stop going to war, and the Palestinians can have a chance for a good life.  But so far they prefer terror.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/AmericanAttacks.htm

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By Justice4All, September 26, 2006 at 2:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“There will be no substantive and permanent peace for any peoples in this troubled region as long as Israel is violating key U.N. resolutions, official American policy, and the international “road map” for peace by occupying Arab lands and oppressing the Palestinians”

President Jimmy Carter

This is coming from a U.S. president who has dignity, integrity, courage and a sense of international justice.


Editorial Reviews
Book Description

Following his #1 New York Times bestseller, Our Endangered Values, the former president, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize, offers an assessment of what must be done to bring permanent peace to Israel with dignity and justice to Palestine.

President Carter, who was able to negotiate peace between Israel and Egypt, has remained deeply involved in Middle East affairs since leaving the White House. He has stayed in touch with the major players from all sides in the conflict and has made numerous trips to the Holy Land, most recently as an observer in the Palestinian elections of 2005 and 2006.

In this book President Carter shares his intimate knowledge of the history of the Middle East and his personal experiences with the principal actors, and he addresses sensitive political issues many American officials avoid. Pulling no punches, Carter prescribes steps that must be taken for the two states to share the Holy Land without a system of apartheid or the constant fear of terrorism.

The general parameters of a long-term, two-state agreement are well known, the president writes. There will be no substantive and permanent peace for any peoples in this troubled region as long as Israel is violating key U.N. resolutions, official American policy, and the international “road map” for peace by occupying Arab lands and oppressing the Palestinians. Except for mutually agreeable negotiated modifications, Israel’s official pre-1967 borders must be honored. As were all previous administrations since the founding of Israel, U.S. government leaders must be in the forefront of achieving this long-delayed goal of a just agreement that both sides can honor.

Palestine Peace Not Apartheid is a challenging, provocative, and courageous book.

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By Barry, September 26, 2006 at 1:07 pm Link to this comment
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People, direct from Israel, the reality is simple.  Israelis across the spectrum would do anything for peace, but the Arabs keep sending terrorists.  The fact that they’re angry doesn’t change the fact that their terror is worldwide and is destroying their chance for a decent life.

If terror would stop, they’d have had a state for 50 years, or right now.  If terror would stop, there would have been no Lebanon war.  If terror would have stopped, the Gaza disengagement would have led to others.

Come on, people, the Gaza disengagement happened!  The knesset was approving others, until the missiles started pouring in from Gaza and then Lebanon!  This is reality.

Stop terror, they’ll have the state they claim they want.  Continue terror, Israel will have no choice but to keep responding militarily.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub_6uJxlDcg

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By Barry, September 26, 2006 at 1:20 am Link to this comment
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Few facts about refugees:

The number of Arab refugees who left Israel in 1948 was around 472,000.

The number of Jewish refugees who left Arab countries in 1948 was around 820,000.

Jordan and Egypt forced the Arab refugees into refugee camps, rather than create a Palestinian country as had been planned by the UN partition plan.

Israel built houses and towns for the Jewish refugees from Arab countries, and used them to build up Israel’s agricultural and technological economy.

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