We have 11 million illegals of MILITARY age in the United States in time of war.  We don’t know who these 11 million illegals are but just try to visualize that only 5% are terrorists, infiltrated army personnel from countries that hate us.  Forget that these men are being used as slave labor, forget that these men are taking jobs at such a low amount that it suppresses our entry level wages to amounts that you can’t live on it unless you live like a slave, think about an armed uprising.  What can our Federal Government be thinking of allowing another country to dump their slaves across our borders, this in-itself is economic war and has been used as a tactic of war for millennia.  We are having our laws subverted with the complicity of our own government.

The proposal that we should legalise those here and have stricter workplace enforcement is not going to fly politically because it was tried before.  Everyone seems to forget about the 1980’s decision to do exactly that.  We got the amnesty but no one bothered to enforce the laws on hiring illegals.  Those laws are on the books right now but you can count the number of enforement actions against employers on one hand.  And when those types of actions are done now activists who support rights for illegals cry bloody murder.

Folks like Tancredo don’t have faith that the law will be enforced and feel that if they do a deal like the 1980’s one all they will get will be another wave of immigration with the controling laws ignored.  The historical pattern of the previous immigration reform effort is what is polarizing the debate on both sides.

This tendentious piece by a self-described “radical reporter” ignores the whole issue of the wage suppression illegal workers cause. Employers are under no pressure to raise pay for their unskilled jobs if they have a bottomless supply of Mexicans willing to work for peanuts. Lou Dobbs is more right than wrong, unlike Marc Cooper.

Great Article!

Not entirely correct his assertion that the border can not be secured for example.

You can try to argue that the disparities between East and West Germany were not as severe as the US and Mexico, but any serious person would laugh you out of the room. The “Berlin Wall” example Marc cites is 50 years of proof that a well guarded well built fence will effectively stop illegal immigration and save Mexican lives.

I address the rest of Marc’s post here

The biggest myth surrounding the immigration issue is that by supporting “reform”, you will win the hispanic vote. My humble,
informal sampling method (striking up conversations with hispanics and asking them how they feel about immigration - not the hispanics that George Bush runs with, or even Marc Cooper - I’m talking working folk) shows over 9 out of 10 opposed to any plan that would increase the flow of undocumented workers.

Can anybody guess why?

A follow up:
Jim mentions that every major industrialized nation has immigration problems.  True, but none have this illegal immigration problem like the US.  We might have 7% of residents here without legal status. (20 mio) That doesn’t exist in other countries.
Second a comment on Rogelio: This ‘Other commit crimes too’ attitude is not contributing to society, in fact it takes from the common good. Building a complex industrialized society depends on people dedicated to the betterment of life for all. Third world countries are so messed up because nobody wants to do something for the common good. Everybody want only an extra slice for themselves or their family. Sewage treatment? Roads? Schools? Anti-corruption? Trash removal? nobody cares and that’s how it looks.  That’s how so many people want to leave these hell holes.  A functioning society is an accomplishment that many people sacrifced for. Carelessness and disregard for the law can run it into the ground in no time

I don’t believe that we would have a crippled economy without braceros, illegal immigrants, or guest workers. The reason no American’s want to do the jobs that immigrants do is because big agriculture and big business don’t want to pay living wages. Opending the border to the oppressed of Mexico only drags down the economy for all.

Marc, this is another great and balanced article that you have written. It is interesting to me about how emotions, myths and lack of critical thought on all sides of the coin can make policy. But alas, I dealt with it every day in my life as well. A prime example was a comment made by martin;

¨´Mexicans do jobs that no American is willing to do’. Well how come the Europeans, the Japanese and every other successful society on this planet does not have this rampant illegal immigration? Meals are cheaper and the streets cleaner mostly over there¨

I would have to say this is far from the truth. Every major industrial country is wrestling with their own immigration problem. In Europe it is not mexicans but africans, and their citizenry is backlashing against the african immigrants. Look at recent events in both France and London for examples, germany as well. In Japan for a long time it was korean workers as well as some Chinese that would travel over there. This is all a product of our industrialized societies needing labor to drive our market forces, as well as undercutting and udnerselling developing nations on our trade agreements. There are many possible remedies that need to bve metted out. Naturalization, and work visas seem like the most logical step as well as helping to develop industries in developing nations. But I do not think the government is going to be able to act fast enough to keep up with the other forces outside of its control. Until our political system can adapt to the 21st century then businesses and NGOs along with other organizations are going to have to bear the burden and cost of this issue.

The author says the Clinton initiated fence- building along the Tijuana/San Diego area border had no practical effect:  Tell that to the citizens of Imperial Beach, California.  Friends who lived there at the time said the decline in the number of people traipsing through their yards was startling.  Property values soared! Why?  Because people unknown to the residents weren’t moving across their property at night…and I’m talking little suburban properties and yards.  The real solution is TWO-FOLD:  1) Seal the Border 2) Corporate hands off Mexico so that the Revolution can continue.  Until Mexico throws off the Euro-centric ruling elite and creates a government responsive to the masses then unchecked birth control rates and and the lure of EL NORTE will allow those ruling elites to ship its governmental failures (i.e., desperate and hungry people) north.  The rich laugh like Foxes in the henhouse!  Or in the Bushes!  What’s the difference

There is certainly no “easy button” to the immigration issue. As a son of Mexican immigrants, I support those individuals who strive and yearn for a better life. So what if those individuals are breaking the law. Did Enron break the law? Did Abramoff break the law? Have we found those weapons of mass destruction that did not exist that have led to the deaths of thousands of Iraqi’s? There are greater issues confronting our nation’s health then “those people” that live to the south of us.

A major factor(one of many) that is leading our southern neighbors to the U.S. are economic factors or push-pull factors. Like my parents, if I were working in Juarez, Mexico earning 1/5 of what I could be making in the U.S., I would certainly break the law and cross that border. I am not Hindu and have the hope that in the next life I will live a better life. 

If we want to “semi-delay” immigration to the U.S., then we should start trying to develop the Mexican economy. Unforntunately, Israel, Iraq, and Egypt are more important and deserve more of our free aid. Why should the U.S. assist the Mexican economy? Simple, NAFTA! NAFTA has led to many of the current problems. Also, an inept and corrupt Mexican government has led to many of the economic problems. How I wish the U.S. would have invaded Mexico and brought DEMOCRACY, rather than waste its time in IRAQ.

So, drugs are coming into our nation. But, I live in Southern CA. near the meth producing capital. When I visit my parents in Northern CA., Humbolt County is nearby and we know what they grow there. The War on Drugs is an oxymoron.

Our politicians want illegal immigration because we need cheap labor. It is called BIG-BUSINESS!

Boiled down, the problem is twofold: poverty &  lack of opportunity south of the border, aggressive and profound greed north. Solve either or both and you likely wouldn’t need the border or the billions required to service it.

I think building a fence has been tried (can you spell Great Wall of China or Berlin Wall?) and has ALWAYS failed in the long run to “keep the infidels” out. So what do the highly paid geniuses in charge of Homeland Security come up with… yup, LET’S BUILD A FENCE. These idiots are even talking about building one across the Canadian border. That’ll stop them bears and mooses cold (the people, of course will just fly over it, swim around it or tunnel under it!)

There really is no upper limit to human stupidity, is there?

Work Americans won’t do?  Rubbish.  Place an ad for “software engineer, $5 / hour.”  You’ll get no reply.  Place an ad for “sanitation worker, $25 / hour” and lots will apply.  It’s the wages, stupid.

Wages for manual labor is just too low.  Cut illegal immigration so that legal landscapers, mechanics, painters, and field hands can support families.  Continued illegal immigration also makes it harder for the children of immigrants to rise from poverty.  Not all Americans can work in offices or high tech.  A lot of what needs to be done is not high tech, and the people who do these things should not be reduced to peonage.

I cut my own grass, rake my own leaves, wash my own dishes, etc.  I’d like to think that the roofer or auto garage businessman hires legally and honor all legal obligations.  But often they don’t.  The advantages of illegals are manifold: lower cost, obedient, off the record, or (thanks to false IDs) still tax deductible and relatively cheap.  The “prevailing market rate” for most manual duties becomes whatever will draw an illegal.  And illegals work for less precisely because they are illegal.

The business community likes “enforcement” policies that make the illegal labor force timid and cheap but no less plentiful.  This includes border patrols and denial of rights.  They also like “guest worker” programs that keep the worker as a peon dependent on the employer’s “protection.”  They would scream, on the other hand, if the illegal workforce vanished due to a wall, if employers were charged more fines for employing non-residents, or if the IRS got wise on policing use of phoney social security IDs.

As soon as any “amnesty” is declared, employers will promptly discard the newly “uppity” legalized workers and seek new cheaper workers.  They will be able to “prove” a scarcity of local labor simply by placing want ads that offer terms too cheap for any legal person to accept.

Yes, let the price of vegetables rise a little.  Let people do a few more of their own chores or hire teenagers on weekends. Better that than to know that my bargain exists because someone else labors for slave wages.  On the margin, some jobs contingent on illegality would disappear, but wages earned by teenagers and blue collar Americans would rise.

The present system is not working, encourages dangerous border crossings and creates a permanent underclass.  It is pointless to continue.  There is no need to go on persecuting illegals or expand the army of border patrol offices.  Neither is there any value in disguising the problem with guest worker (indentured servant) programs that will never work. 

There are four much more humane and efficient solutions: 

1) A fence would cost less than the present futile approach and squelch the “coyote” traffic.  Any breach of the fence would prompt instant interdiction and also facilitate rescue to prevent deaths by dehydration.

2) IRS sanctions on employers who fail to produce proof of legal employment would reduce the incentive to cheat and exploit.

3) Persuade Mexico to stop giving visas so liberally to “tourists” from other countries who are often simply en route to El Norte.

4)Levy a North American Development “Espaldas secas y manos dignas” Tax on imports of apparel and electronics from countries that do not protect freedom of religion, tolerate patent and copyright piracy, neglect labor laws, outlaw independent unions, censor their media,  and run disproportionate trade surpluses with the US.  The tax law need not mention the principal offending one-party tyranny by name.  Use the proceeds to support schools, health services, and infrastructure development in Mexico or severely depressed areas of the US and Canada.

In this context, some sort of amnesty or regularization scheme for existing illegal immigrants might work, especially if it matches service demands to tax revenue growth.  Otherwise, the cycle will repeat every 10 years and manual wages will remain stuck at subsistence levels.

A very thought provoking piece! This mass migration is worldwide. South to north. Countryside to city. Poor to rich. A couple of points…

1. Many immigrants do not sneak in. They overstay visas.

2. Capitalism is built on cheap labor. In the US we went from using the indigenous people to African slaves to indentured servants to legal immigrants to illegal immigrants.

3. We need to raise the minimum wage to at least $9.00 an hour.

4. We need a single payor health program that is free to all.

5. We need free education thru university for all.

6. We need an amnesty program for all the undocumented workers.

7. We need to raise taxes on the rich.

Lets start by stopping drugs from getting into our country. This is killing our kids and dumbing our society. I will bet pound for pound our boarder patrol allows more drugs than people. Once we get control of the drugs then we can focus on migration movement north. Giving assistance to the Mexican Government on developing rural areas of the country to sustain themselves just might slow the migration. We do need to remember that we don’t build walls to stop the butterflies, birds, and bears. These are educable human beings that just need tools.

I am an imigrant.  I am a naturalized citizen.
I agree in big part with Lou Dobbs.  I think he is right in pointing out an alliance between capital, those courting a constituency and the poor sub-class of illegal imigrants.
Marc, you say that the root of the problem is the ruined Mexican economy. Well, I would say that this is only half of the equation. The other half has to be here in the US. There is definetely a ‘push’ force out of latin america to go North, but there also is a strong ‘pull’ here luring the workers North. The agro-industry says the need them. The home building industry needs them. The restaurant industry needs them. Everybody needs them.
The question is ‘Needs them for what?’. To operate honest businesses or to make unconscionable profits? They say ‘Mexicans do jobs that no American is willing to do’. Well how come the Europeans, the Japanese and every other successful society on this planet does not have this rampant illegal immigration? Meals are cheaper and the streets cleaner mostly over there.
Is this mass imigration good? Good for the current inhabitants? Good for the environment? Good for the social infra-structure? Good for creating a citizenry, a society that seeks higher goals?
Immigration is good, no doubt.  Immigrants are a selection of the brighter and more energetic of their people. But lawlessness is bad.  A society that allows lawlessness to pervail is going down.  Lawlessness is in this case brought on by greed. Employers calculate that they make more money, undercut the competition, get more jobs etc. by hiring illegal aliens. In truth, they screew us all. Those services are performed but not taxed. Consciounable employers lose out. The coffers of society, of us, suffer.  There is so much anti-tax rethoric out there. Taxes are good and necessary and if they are well distrubuted over society, then they don’t hurt.
Now the whole enchilada is also that illegals have an illegal sub culture. Some feel ‘Hey, we are out casts anyway, so why not break a few more laws’. Drugs? Easier to get in the latino suburb. Bringing in other illegals? Of course. Paying taxes? Not if it can be avoided. Gangs? Violence? Crime? Trash?
Will the illegal immigrants take part in the public debate? Will they plan schools, demand parks and recreational facilities, ask for reduction in work load, increases in vacation time, sick leave, accountable representation?
No. The population as a whole changes. American work harder for less benefits than Europeans or Japanese.  Many have no health insurance.  Many have no vacation, or just 10 days a year. Public schools are an abomination. Her we should create the next generation of the most advanced civilization on earth. Illegal immigration turns many public schools into Dickensian institutions where kids are brutalized to believe that life is a battle and mostly you loose.
Immigration has to be orgamized and regulated.  A society has the responsibility and duty to curb low instincts like greed, enforce its laws or do away with them, collect taxes and work for the common good, the common wealth.
This ‘Screw everybody while it lasts’ mentality permeates our culture right now.
When this system crashes, most Americans will have nothing. No house because the bank took it, no health insurance. No savings. How come?
A lawlessness in congress where public money is funneled to the few.
A lawlessness in commerce and industry, whether it is taxes, pensions, benefits.
A lawlessness in international relationships. Pre-emptive wars. Guantanamo. Kyoto.

In the end, we need a guest worker program.
We need employment eligibility verification.
Illegals need to get legal status or leave.
We need national ID cards.

That is how the rest of the world works.  That or Mad Max.

Biggest truth: “On the other side, Democrats may be unwilling to support Bush if he does decide to come out swinging on border reform.”

Dems are so full of Bush-hate they wouldn’t support anything by him.  If Bush really wanted to kill the Dem proposals, he would just mildly support them—and the Dems would denounce him, the Reps would object.

You have the right basis ” Immigrant workers should certainly be legalized, but in return there must be strict work site enforcement. Accepting and supporting a verification system at the point of employment must accompany supporting a channel for legal immigration. “

But those already here should be fined—like $40 000, payable in small monthly payments (for the rest of their US lives?).

The rich think that American workers are overpaid.