Some people give up too easy. I didn’t know of any rule on TruthDig about resident reviewers. I hope I’m not considered one. I’m just a country-abandoning loudmouth.

And whilst I’m at it Skruffo, I liked that anecdote on the Stan Goff thread about your mom sticking it up the anti-Semitic friend with the sensitive nose. Schwing!

86419…Took long enough is certainly correct! If people don’t wake up and take a good long look at that pack of devils running this nation, we may wake up one day in the very near future and find we have no rights and no claims to anything. Knowing such power is in the hands of lying, cheating evil sacks of manure should scare the hell out of the simplest minds! Take a look at this, because if there is one shred of truth to this, we are in serious trouble.

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20070405.htm

86410 Well close to 60% of our population wants to impeach Cheney. So obviously the message is getting through though I’ll admit it took long enough.

I am not sure if Americans are ignorant or just lazy and unconcerned. Lord knows the information is out there in plain sight for anyone who puts a minimal amount of effort into finding it. Look at how people re-acted to Clintons lies. As long as their pocket books weren’t hurting, they could not have cared less what kind of sleazy dog the man was. This nation has become an ‘everyman for himself’ and ‘don’t complicate my world with facts’ self-centered deceived mess. I forget who said these profound words, but they stand true “Americans are ignorant because they don’t read”. Truth can be found easier today than it ever was due to the internet, but sadly I am afraid people willingly choose to be ignorant and deceived.  They are under the false assumption if they ignor the bad, it will go away. Unfortunately, we are not dealing with the boogieman that might be hiding under the bed when the lights go out. This is the real world and the boogieman is in charge in broad daylight and few seem to see him! Wake up!

Thank you, Skruff.  Now I get it.

Leslie, “chill” doesn’t mean “shut-up.”  It is another way of suggesting that you calm down.  The balance of my statement to you was an attempt at humor.  Sad that you didn’t see it as such.

If you “dig” through “Truth”-dig, you will find many posts from myself and others that are quite substantive, but that shouldn’t prevent some occasional attempts at levity.  Chill!

Real reality

http://video.stumbleupon.com/#p=fhdja5t1go

Chill, Leslie.  If you don’t like the way we drive, stay off the sidewalk.

Your posts are ephemeral, Skruff.  Truth is a constant.

There you go again, Skruff.  Ignore history.  Ignore facts.  Nothing matters except that the Moron was sworn in.  So why talk about it?  I’ll tell you why.  Truth matters!

Skruff, the problem was not certification, it was fraud.  If it doesn’t bother you that millions of votes could be flipped electronically to deny the will of the electorate, then you would probably have gotten along quite well with Joseph Stalin who said, “The people who cast the votes decide nothing.  The people who count the votes decide everything.”

Not to burst your bubble there, Skruff, but John Kerry did not lose the 2004 election—not by more than three million votes as listed in the official count.  In fact, if it had even been possible to count all the votes cast, we would find that Kerry won the popular vote by a margin of approximately five to seven million votes.  It was not possible to accurately count all the votes cast because a large percentage of Americans who thought they were participating in an “actual election” simply took part in a “virtual election” where their votes disappeared into electronic black holes.  One cannot accurately state that eight to ten million votes were “stolen” because the number of votes included within the official count did not match the number of votes cast.  In addition to millions of cast-not-counted votes, the official totals include an unknown quantity of Bush votes never cast.  Perhaps a good title for 21st Century American virtual elections would be “George Orwell’s 1984 Meets the Matrix.”

Before you start thinking, “this guy has flipped his cork” get ahold of “Was the 2004 presidential election stolen?  Exit polls, election fraud and the official count” by Steven F. Freeman & Joel Bleifuss.

Freeman is a PhD, a member of the teaching faculty at the Univ. of PA Graduate Program of Organizational Dynamics.  His 1984-like moment occurred on election eve:  “The laptop screen projected a Kerry victory in nearly every battleground state, in many cases by substantial margins.  But on TV James Carville was saying Kerry needed to ‘draw an inside straight’...The Slate Web site indicated a narrow edge to Kerry in Florida; the netoworks all had Florida solidly in the Bush camp.  CNN’s Web site data informed us of commanding Kerry victories in PA and MN; TV anchors told us these states were too close to call…[In] Ohio—-exit polls showed Kerry with a projected victory of more than 4%....TV viewers were left with little doubt that Bush had won.”

As a statistician Freeman understood all too well the meaning of exit-polls.  As Dick Morris noted on CNN, “Exit-polls are almost never wrong….”  As Freeman notes, the “difference between conducting a pre-election telephone poll and conducting an Election exit-poll is like the difference between predicting snowfall…in advance of a snowstorm and estimating the region’s overall snowfall based on observed measures taken at representative sites.”

A funny thing happened after the polls closed and the Kerry exit-poll lead, in state after state, slid into the Bush column.  The inexplicable vast discrepancies between the exit-polls and the official results simply vanished as the pollsters “corrected” [I prefer “corrupted”] the exit-polls in order to reconcile them with the official results.

Thanks to a technical glitch on the CNN site that permitted the uncorrected data to be collected and preserved, Freeman & Bleifuss were able to make short work of the theory that the vast discrepancies could be explained away by a late surge in Bush voters or any of the other theories.  Warren Mitofsky had been involved in the very first exit-poll in 1964 and in thousands of elections since.  There were six instances in which exit polls were skewed.  In all six, the beneficiary of the discrepancy was a Republican and “in five out of the six elections; the candidate whose official numbers far exceeded exit-poll results was named George Bush.”

In “ten of the eleven battleground states there was a shift…and in all ten the shift favored Bush.”  The odds of that happening were one in 1,024.  In OH, PA & FL the shifts were dramatic—4.9%, 6.7% & 6.5%.  “Assuming that these state exit-polls had no systematic bias, the likelihood of three such statistical anomalies…occuring together and all favoring the incumbent, Bush, is about one in 660,000.”

Skruff, I recall reading a poll that said eleven out of twelve people who drive hybrids voted for Kerry in the last election.  (And no, I don’t recall whether the balance voted for Nader).  There are certainly a large number of Americans who are foolish enough to drive SUVs, even some dumb enough to drive Hummers, but then there is a large segment of the population who voted for Bush, twice—though it is difficult these days to find anyone who will admit it.  So I think the “addicted to oil” argument is a bit overbroad.

As to all-electrics lacking power, the Tesla Motors Roadster, which runs on a Lithium-ion battery similar to the cells found in laptops and cell phones, has a 248 mph peak hp, a maximum speed of 130 mph and has gone from 0 to 60 mph in as little as 4 seconds—a little too powerful for my blood.  It can be plugged into an ordinary wall socket and has a range of 200 miles on a single charge.

Skruff, the idea that Americans “love oil” or are “addicted to oil” is a canard that obscures the level of collusion between U.S. automakers and the oil cartel that leave Americans with few alternatives, especially where I live, in sprawling Southern California.

I would encourage you to obtain a copy of the DVD “Who killed the electric car?” which is available at:

http://www.pluginamerica.com/whyev.shtml

At a time when California was forcing auto manufacturers to place a percentage of zero emission vehicles on the market, GM insisted that it could only lease the EV-1 because there was no demand for them.  In fact there was a huge demand.

The EV was a problem not only for the oil industry but for the auto industry because, unlike cars with gas guzzling, internal combustion engines, those damn things take forever to wear out and need very little in the way of repairs.  Through legal actions and extensive lobbying, GM and the other auto mfgs. were able to rid themselves of the pesky California regs.  GM turned down a multi-million dollar offer from the lessees to purchase the remaining EVs but chose, instead, to ship them all to a wrecking yard in demolished where these fully operational vehicles were demolished.

Robert Chaney:  If Scott Ritter was working for the U.S. government at the time, there would be a very good reason for him to “quit and walk away.”  However, he was not.  He was the lead weapons inspector for UNSCOM which was the United Nations’ agency charged with uncovering the truth about whether Iraq was in compliance with UN resolutions governing Iraq’s elimination of its WMD.  He served in that position from 1991 to 1998.

A Fairness & Accuracy in Reporting study revealed that in the weeks surrounding Colin Powell’s infamous UN presentation only 3 of 393 on-air experts appearing on the major networks were affiliated with anti-war activism.  While Bush & friends were spinning their unchallenged tale of ominous “mushroom clouds,” Ritter was in Baghadad trying to convince the Iraqis that they faced imminent invasion unless they granted the inspectors immediate and unlimited access.  For this, he was slammed on CNN by Clifford May, former director of the RNC, as a “misguided” fool who had “become an apolgist for and a defender of Saddam Hussein.”

As noted by Mark Crispin Miller in “Cruel & Unusual,” this view was briefly “obliterated” when Ritter was interviewed by CNN’s Miles O’Brien.  Ritter said that by the time UNSCOM left Iraq, they had ascertained “a 95% level of disarmament that included all production equipment and means of production used by Iraq to produce these weapons.”  Ritter set the record straight.  The inspectors were not kicked out by the Iraqis but “were ordered out by the United States after the U.S. manipulated the inspection process to create a confrontation that led to Operation Desert Fox.”  The claim that Iraq had interfered with the inspections was “absolutely false.”  The problem was the US tried to use the inspections for penetrating sites, like presidential palaces, that had nothing to do with disarmament.

As noted by Mark Crispin Miller, Ritter’s CNN performance “clearly threatened Bush & Co. propaganda.”  CNN’s chief news executive, Eason Jordan—the same Eason Jordan who made it a point to ask the Pentagon whether they approved of the line-up of generals who would appear as experts on CNN when the war got underway, asserted that Ritter’s behavior was “chameleon-like” and that “people are…stunned, really, as to his position on these matters.”  He added, “US officials no longer give Scott Ritter much credibility.”

No doubt Mr. Jordan subscribes to the Jim Lehrer school of journalism:  “Unless an official says something is so, it isn’t news.”  Within the realm of the American propaganda network, an assertion that US officials do not find Ritter credible is enough to banish Ritter’s forceful rebuttal of the WMD canard to the netherworld.

That’s the real Scott Ritter story, Mr. Chaney.

Robert Chaney: You should read “Iraq Confidential” by Scott Ritter.  Your effort to pin the WMD canard on Ritter and UNSCOM is misguided and flat-out wrong.  As Seymour Hersh reveals in the forward to Ritter’s book, Ritter “told us again and again in 2002 and early 2003 as President George Bush and Prime Minister Tony Blair prepared for war in Iraq that there were no weapons there….

“With each statement, Ritter became more and more unpopular—with the politicos in the White House, the neoconservatives in Washington, the war planners in the Pentagon and the American press corps (which was, with few exceptions, panting for the war).  Ritter was in their face and stayed so—even after the show and awe began….”

“Iraq Confidential” reveals that UNSCOM was aware that most of the WMD had been destroyed immediately after Gulf War I; that Iraqi concealment was centered on hiding the methodology of the destruction of WMD and the direct involvement of Saddam’s son in that event, and that the U.S. government, at every turn, thwarted efforts by UNSCOM to verify the absence of WMD as the goal of three successive administrations (Bush I, Clinton & Bush II) had consistently favored “regime change” rather than Iraqi disarmament.  Only the methodology changed—from the Bush I & Clinton adminstrations, who utilized devastating UN sanctions that are estimated to have cost the lives of 500,000 Iraqi children during the thirteen years they were in force, interspersed with intermittent airborne attacks from the “no-fly zone” to outright invasion by the Bush II administration.

WOW! Has everyone missed the point with Mr. Ritter’s article? Does not articulate conversation begin with accurate information? How can anyone make an intelligent argument without factual, concise knowledge?

We cannot hold our elected officials accountable for their decisions unless we have a basic understanding of the situation. This is what the article was demonstrating.

But…..all I read on this blog is one ‘agenda’ after another. No one is delving into the intricacies of the debate at hand.

ZOOM!!!...right over their heads!

Imagine trying to quell the hatred between catholics and protestants at a time when they “hated” each other…that’s the conflict that created the good ol’ U.S. of A., people…and if you were to get in the middle of them, why, they BOTH would have tried to destroy you! Try getting between a husband and wife while they’re fighting and see how far you get!

I believe in LUCK.. defined as “Labor Under Correct Knowledge”.

Here’s what I posted on my blog a while ago:

http://ohioan4truth.blogspot.com/

Tuesday, October 10, 2006
You are missing the point!

Why do I feel that everyone is missing the point about the Iraqi situation? If our elected officials, who are supposed to be intelligent, yet not understanding the difference between Shiite, Sunni or Kurd and their ‘fundamental’ schizms, how can they come to a real solution to end the violence and nurture peace?

All of us should, and need, to become educated concerning the world and it’s politics. It starts with ourselves, let alone our children.

Ignorance is as ignorance does.

No wonder we as a nation continue to make the same mistakes over and over again.

Ernest,

I agree with you. I am completely against funding the war any further, and I am personally in full support of an immediate exit plan. When I say “Support Our Troops”, I mean supporting them by demanding that our government bring them home safe, and immediately. Hopefully that clears up any confusion.

ctbrandon
http://www.actforyourself.org

ctbrandon, it’s not just that “you can support our troops, and not support this baseless war.”  When our representatives vote to extend funding, they are not “supporting our troops,” they are betraying them by allowing the Bush administration to leave them in harm’s way.

Like the so-called “war on terror,” the phrase “support the troops” is a piece of Orwellian Newspeak designed by the sociopaths who betrayed not only this troops but our nation by carrying out the goals of the Project for a New American Century—regime change in seeking a permanent base of operations in the oil rich Middle East—under the rubric of WMD and false links between Iraq and al-Qaeda.

Fox News and our President have done a masterful job of blurring what I am about to say. So please read it, and make sure you pass it along.

“YOU CAN SUPPORT THE TROOPS, AND NOT SUPPORT THIS BASELESS WAR.”

While there may be some resent aimed at our troops in small group of citizens, I believe that our current situation is much different than that of Nam. The majority of Americans support the troops completely. It is the policy of our leadership and the baseless war that we oppose. This is a more informed culture than that of the late 60’s and early 70’s. We have access to a wealth of information that makes us much more informed. I guess you could call us Next Gen Flower Children. I for one can and will do anything I can to voice my support of our soldiers. I am proud of them and they deserve my eternal gratitude and respect. They also deserve better than to be used as pawns on a chess board so the elite rich who run our country can continue to sacrifice their lives for oil.

brandon
http://www.actforyourself.org

As someone who served in Vietnam, then returned home, I can personally state that reactions ran the gamut.  The more sophisticated members of the anti-war movement were glad to have us home, because they knew that we came back bearing a different perspective than when we left, and, of course, many who returned joined with those at home already opposing the war.

I do remember one instance in which an individual called me a “baby killer,” but that was an isolated incident.

Well I never saw anyone spit on the soldiers after Nam.It could have happened though. That said, I did hear soldiers use to fill squirt guns with urine and spray them on conscientious objectors who were imprisoned at the Presidio for refusing to fight in the war.

#70786 by Skruff on 5/18 at 6:08 am

“The Country” did not turn against our troops following (or during) Vietnam.”

How in the world can you say that?  In fact, yes it did.  I was there and people spat on the troops, verbally abused and discriminated against them.  I knew many who were afraid to go anywhere in their uniforms.  It was a low point for this country.

As against the war as I was (I marched), I sure as hell didn’t blame the troops as the majority of anti-war people did. 

Please read history and get your facts straight.

Hey Pepsiholic, consider yourself lucky Scott Ritter isn’t in the same room as you are. He’s a decorated former marine.

It’s too bad that a man as intelligent as Ritter has to come across with such an arrogant, condescending style. Of course he’s right that most Americans are stupid, ignorant, complacent, uneducated morons, but then he goes too far when he makes this nonsensical assertion:

“If the reader fails the quiz, then there should be an honest appraisal of the reality that we are in way over our heads regarding this war”

What? Come again? What is the logical connection between Americans being ignorant and Ritter being right? That’s called a non-sequitur, or essentially, a statement that makes no sense due to flawed logic.

Hey Ralph—I agree with Skruff and Shaw. The thread is not all about Ritter. Such is the nature of Internet forums. When an article is fresh, comments tend to be about IT. As it gets older, the comments become more like cross-chatter. I find it interesting, what other people have to say, especially some of the commenters I recognise. Part of Truth DIG is for people to dig out the opinions and observations of others. If you don’t like it, mate, then turn the page.

I see your point Skruff and like you I agree with most of what you’re saying. However,when we look at outsourced jobs to foreign sweat factories or the fact most people have to work 2 full time jobs just to make ends meet, we can see the mentality of today’s corporate mega-giants are not far removed from their McKinley Era counterparts. The same company(Walmart)that you speak of, who limit employee work hours here to undercut their benefits are enjoying virtual slave labor from abroad where all of their manufacturing is done. As for child labor here goes, there are still labor laws in practice that protect 8 and 9 y/o’s from working in the mines, mills and factories as they did back then. But as labor laws are weakened and continue to crumble, how long will it take before this practice returns? Young children might be forced to work simply to sustain the family as they did back then.

What we see today are the beginnings of corporate feudalism and Karl Rove doesn’t love that period in time for nothing. With a crew of lawless nits like this current administration who promote torture and preemptively war, trash our constitutional rights and scoff international laws, how long might it take before we return to the days of the barons and kings and we ourselves become serfs?

Hey Ralphie boy, I can’t speak for anyone else in here like you’re trying to do, but this is an open dig, not your personal website. If you had any conception whatsoever about what Mr. Ritter’s been conveying here(and it’s obvious that you don’t) you wouldn’t have opened your self righteous pie hole in the first place! I could give a crap what you think about my posts. Since none of them were aimed at you till now, frankly what I post or who I converse with is none of your business.

HEY GUYS AND GIRLS, This post section is not a debating area for Skruff, Shaw, Jonathan and others to fire back and forth at each other about the validity of each other’s view on totally unrelated, yet very well presented subjects, concering the burning question of the moment: is Scott Riter an asshole or not?? I sense enough collective intelligence among you to put him in his place; yet you continue to snipe at each other with the savagery of a pillow fight conducted at a 6th grade sleep-over! 316 comments of fluff response directed toward someone who has called you an idiot, is not my idea of a vicious defense of my intellect!! Step up toward the real target; ritter, or you risk being tagged soft on derisive insults! What about it??

Re: Comment #68390 by Mr. Anthony Smith on 5-05-07.

I had to read through a number of posts concerning Ritter’s demeaning remarks to the American public, to find a response that not only correctly and successfully defended the opposite position, but did it with a lot more class, dignity and intelligence than Ritter could ever muster! I am now pleased that I kept reading until I found Mr. Smith’s post as noted above. It said all that I was struggling to construct and post myself; without the vitriol and obscenities that ritter deserves. That smug air of superiority displayed by ritter because he knows more about civil unrest in a country that 95% of intelligent Americans couldn’t have cared less about 6 years ago, is a blatant attempt to garner some attention by someone who has obviously been ignored and bullied most of his formative years. By the way, here’s a test for you ritter: how long do you think it will take before you quit sniveling about the glory of your self-proclaimed “astute” opinions, climb out of your highchair and join the grown-ups of this country??

The undeniable truth is all there in Mr. Smith’s post, and I’ll bet anyone a sincere apology if I’m wrong, but we won’t hear one word of retraction from ritter or any of his supporters! Remember ritter, painting good people negatively with such a wide brush only ensures that you will get some splashed on you! I really wish you could get to know Mr. Smith, myself and millions of other caring intelligent people like us. Not only would you find us “not idiots”, but you would discover a remarkable degree of self restraint in replying to your uninformed condemnation of so many noble people, whose only mistake was believing in an administration that we had faith in between 4 to 5 years ago! It’s very difficult to undo 6 years of lying, stonewalling, patronizing and ignoring intelligent voters, pandering to special interests, treating the separation of church and state like it didn’t exist, trampling on not only the rights and freedoms of the American people, but those of so many other nations and claiming to know more than the majority of people who have spent their entire lives advancing the discoveries of mankind to improve life for us all, when we only get one precious vote every 4 years to try and counteract all the crap we’ve been exposed to for the last 6 years!! We try to remain fair and balanced, and all we get is more of the same! I have the highest of respect for the Office of the President of these United States, and absolutely none for the current inhabitants of that office!!

geo bush once said that “history will decide what kind of a presidency he had”; well geo, pull your head out of it’s “happy place” and realize…it already has…years ago!!

Richard Dungeon IE So stupid they ignore 1200 years of history….I believe they understand history all too well, or at least better than we might think. I don’t mean they’re obvious lack of knowledge concerning Iraq or Islamic history, I mean the so called, “New World Order”. They extracted that ideology from history, the history of 60 short years ago when Adolf Hitler proclaimed his thousand year Reich. And just as Hitler’s Germany trashed organized labor, its constitution, scoffed at international laws and spied on their own people, so too do the current occupants of this White House! Also let’s not forget where their economic plans came from either. The McKinley Era, the years of child labor, the 14 hour work day and the robber baron! No surprise it’s Karl Rove’s favorite period in US history!

“Most readers might complain that it is not realistic to expect mainstream America to possess the knowledge necessary to achieve the level of comprehension required to pass this quiz.”
Perhaps, but shouldn’t our imbecile leaders?
This reduces to such a simple concept—how the hell did we get this stupid?  So stupid that we ignore 1,200 years of history and blithely stumble into this mess with an Alfred E. Neumann, “what, me worry?” smile on our idiotic faces?  This is beyond dumbing down; we’ve embraced stupid with the passion of a lover!!
This may seem off point, but I submit it is relevant:  the most cogent argument comes from Sam Harris in “The End of Faith.”  Note the title is not “The End of Religion,” because religion is only the most obvious manifestation—the problem is faith, faith being defined as the unshakeable belief in that which cannot be verified empirically or that which is actually verified as the opposite!
We went into this ignoring the history of this culture, believing, with nothing to support it, in a reverse domino theory—that democracy, once planted, would blow on the winds across the borders and transform the whole area.
Surprise!!  Everything the critics said would happen did happen—remove Saddam and suffer a civil war, destabilize the region,  etc, etc, etc. 
Sigh!  Is there any point to re hashing this? 
We talk about the lessons of Vietnam, but we were all asleep in class. 
If we haven’t yet learned those lessons, how many future wars await us before we learn the “lessons” of Iraq?

Hey Skruff, good points as to the sense of hopelessness. It certainly does go on right here. As the gap between rich and poor grows, indifference to the suffering going on grows as well. It can already be seen twixt the decay of our inner cities, gang warfare and criminal activity. Education is of course the key along with going after the root of the real problems rather than the after affects of those problems. People here seem to wonder why anyone would become a suicide bomber for example. They mark it off as insanity or radical religion. The truth is the reason these kids are so easily captivated is because of a sense of no hope, no future, things never getting better, only worse! But if you can somehow remove this sense of hopelessness and provide opportunity, I believe much of the insanity we see going on today would be alleviated.

IE Joan of Arc, king tut. Yes but Skruff Joan of Arc who is one of my biggest heroes by the way, was actually 18 when she first led the army to the English forts in Orleans and King Tut and the other monarchs inherited a throne, no big task in the days of dynasties. I do not try to undermine what you’re saying about youthful courage and deeds. But by most accounts these are anomalies rather than norms. Good point though about keeping kids, kids to long. They had to grow up a whole lot faster back in those days and kids that age today continue to fight in various parts of the world. Most of them never had a childhood, only famine, poverty and a sense of hopelessness.

Well Jonathan, I disagree. He even tried to cover up Bush’s DUI when he was the legal adviser to then Governor George W. Bush. He’s been playing the devil’s advocate for years and his help in dismantling our obligations to the Geneva Conventions, calling them quaint and antiquated should tell us volumes about the man. Also the recent revelations that he attempted to coerce John Ashcroft into signing that illegal domestic spying program into law while he was in a hospital bed suffering from a pancreatic attack shows this little wing-nut is capable of anything! His aid in firing those attorney’s to politicize the Justice Department is yet one more antic of the many antics this “little corporal” has perpetuated! Of course the president solely continues to defend him and insists no laws have been broken, that the democrats are trying to politicize this issue. If you believe that, I’ll tell you another! How about we’re in Iraq to defend and preserve democracy??

Gonzales has not yet - reached the low level of George W Bush and GWB just keeps on nodding his cross eyed head and watches the World go by !

I’d like to add that people like “Andy” coming in here is for one reason only, to disrupt this board.

Mr. Chalmer’s, Bukko the Aussie isn’t the guy you should be going after. This Andy dude is. Bukko was actually defending those of us in here while Andy made the rye, childish commentary saying all of us in here are gay. With a name like “Andy,” he hardly has room to talk. Perhaps he should resort to using his proper name the next time he attacks this board. He still wouldn’t have credibility but at least he wouldn’t come off as being so damn butch!

I will be buying the “End game” by Scott Ritter and placing it next to “America what went wrong” a book written for Americans by two American Journalists.
A book that exposes just how vile, vicious and corrupt some American industrialists are to this very day.
(lobbying congressmen with money for their congressional votes)
First off; The so called ignorant American folks did not entirely elect G. W. B.
He was truly’ appointed by the US Supreme Court.
Ignorant as we might be – 50% of voters did not vote for George W Bush – in spite of the repetitious malicious lies !
Sixteen of the ”Arabs” that attacked the WTC were from “Saudi Arabia” not Iraq. That’s why John Kerry said; it is a wrong War, at the Wrong place, at the Wrong time !
The war in Iraq is like the US War to exterminate all American and Mexican Indians – it was done by religious fanatics for what they call “Manifest Destiny”
a plan to conquer and dominate and rule nations by white religious doctrine.
(assuming they are not capable of governing and controlling their own nations) That’s why American religious fanatics support George Bush’s War in Iraq.
Several US Generals stated that the methods and reasons for attacking “Mexico”  were unfair, malicious and shameful to say the least. (sound familiar ?)
Some of the founding fathers were Atheists – that’s why they set the rule about “Separation of Church and State.”
They knew that 50% of American citizens were ignorant, not knowledgeable about politics and elections. (many were illiterate) So they established the “Electoral Board College” - allowing them (professional politicians) to select the US President when ever the “popular vote” elected an incompetent candidate. 

The “Federal Reserve Board” was established on 23 December 1913 – while opposing Congressmen were away for the Holidays. The Federal reserve board passed as a temporary fix and in that amendment, there is a stipulation that the Fed can be purchased and terminated for $420 Million dollars. $2.00 per/citizen.
Nobody in congress has dared to move to purchase and terminate the unconstitutional “Federal Reserve Board” who charges us “prime rate interest” for the use of our own money. (the FED gets “prime rate interest” for nothing)

Bottom lines; The US Congress is not complying with their jobs responsibilities !
That is why they shifted the authority to declare War to George W Bush.
American citizens for the most part are not ignorant. Some of us are working 16 hour work days just to make ends meet. There is no time left to acquire political knowledge for the Presidential Elections – the news media publishes anything that anybody pays for.  Whoever has more money gets more paid political announcements. Observe; The “American Israel Political Action Committee.”
NO ! We did not elect GWB – US Congress has not been representing us.
YES ! America needs an informed and participating people and a responsible Congress.
Jonathan

#71661 by Bukko in Australia on 5/22 at 5:36 am: “...Andy… this article makes no sense to me bc its all politics and politics are gay, like all the men in here…....That must be why you’re here, mate…”

Oh, is that the limit of intelligence from commenters from Australia???

No wonder, then, that the jumior-most partner in the coalition of the willing has become the third political casualty of the illusory war in Iraq:-

“The Prime Minister (of Australia) has warned his colleagues that current opinion polls mean the Coalition (their Liberal + National parties) would not just lose a federal election (later this year), it would be annihilated.

John Howard has told a meeting of Liberal and National MPs the polls show Labor would win emphatically.

He has warned if they are expecting him to pull a rabbit out of a hat, he does not have a rabbit…...”
http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200705/s1930125.htm

Andy
(Unregistered commenter)

i have no idea what the hell wnyone (sic) here is talking about… this article makes no sense to me bc its all politics and politics are gay, like all the men in here…

That must be why you’re here, mate…

Good points Skruff and that was exactly the point I was trying to make about kids going to war. During Vietnam it was John Wayne. Every kid in the country thought that’s what war really is. His Green Beret film took the cake!

As for 15 year olds leading armies go, I’m not sure who you’re talking about.I would be interested to know. I believe Alexander the Great was about that age when his father Philip was assassinated. But even he had tutors(Aristotle for one) and advisers who guided him. I know there were 15 year olds fighting for the Viet Cong and there are still kids that age fighting in the Middle East and Africa but that is more so because the older males had been killed. Also their leaders are generally old men.

As for our troops, I believe they are going to need a whole lot of TLC when they return. I would not like to see a repeat of Vietnam. Many will need counseling, perhaps even for the rest of their lives. There are adaptation programs beginning all over the place that are geared to incorporate them back into society so that is a start at least.

But you’re right! These kids are shaped and molded, brainwashed in fact. There is good reason as to why the military grasps upon the youth. Their minds are not yet fully developed and more easily manipulated. Let’s not forget the situation they’re being placed in either. Indoctrination + environment= Hell!

That said, if any one over there did commit crimes against humanity as some most certainly have, are they really fit to rejoin our society? Should they not be tried for these crimes? Should these crimes not be met from the top on down, rather than vice-versa? I think they should since the only way we can expect this kind of lawlessness to never happen again is by holding our leadership accountable. They created the environment, they manifested torture and they ignored international laws we helped to create after WW2. 

The military leadership, with the influence of this administration, particularly Rumsfeld and Gonzales, have literally changed the rules that govern warfare. Those rule changes in many cases are not only morally wrong, they are perhaps the biggest blunder in our nation’s history. The utter indifference to the Geneva Conventions are apparent and have made we as Americans a whole lot less safe then we were prior to their implementation.

I think those who committed atrocities should be punished, but we should never damn an entire group of enlistees for the actions of a few amongst their ranks or because of the blatant actions of the defense department.

Mr. Thair I never excluded anyone. In fact I said I wanted to see all of those who commit war crimes to be punished “from the top on down.” Rather than take anyone off the hook, I merely chose to place the lion share of the blame where it truly belongs, on those who created this mess in the first place, rather than blame our entire military who go where they’re sent and do what they’re told to do.

On Democracy Now! this past week, there was an interview with Agustin Aguayo, who has applied for Conscientious Objector status after going to Iraq and concluding he could not do what he was ordered to do. He pointed out that never in the course of his military indoctrination was he given any idea of what killing another human being in a war zone was really like. He found he just could not do it and maintain his humanity.

However, his request for CO status doesn’t look good because the military requires that one must have a LONG-TERM COMMITMENT TO PACIFISM (and usually involvement in a religion that reflects that value) in order to be declared a CO.

Isn’t it ironic that a certain person most of us now despise became INSTANTLY BORN AGAIN in order to hoodwink a large religious segment of the country into buying his pitch for the Presidency (then engaged in mass murder). Is that what being “born again” means you have the right to do?

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Mr. Thair, you are talking to a conscientious objector here, not someone who endorses torture or advocates the killing of children. I’ve been opposed to this war in Iraq since day one. I was opposed to Desert Storm, the invasion of Panama, Grenada and the Vietnam war too! My question to you would be who exactly was it who promoted the idea of torture in the first place and created such an environment? Who said it’s time to take the gloves off and scoffed the Nuremberg Trials and Geneva Conventions? Was it not Mr. Rumsfeld and Mr. Gonzales? Was it not this entire administration, the same canard who fired up the nation with false and doctored intelligence to put us over there in the first place? 

I read an article somewhere that suggested 40% of our troops support the idea of torturing enemy combatants. Frankly I find that hard to believe, especially since the government has the military so censured and controlled. We never or rarely hear, for example, about the many troops who believe what we’re doing there is wrong. The White House propaganda machine is in full swing over there and in fact I’d even be willing to suggest that the idea of this poll came from the White House itself, especially since most of them are presently under the scrutiny of the International War Crimes Tribunal!

We also seem to forget US G.I.‘s were the first to come forth and tell us about the tortures of Abu-Ghraib and elsewhere. We also it seems are failing to see the Tillman family and Jessica Lynch who are touring this country and telling the American people exactly how they were propagandized and exploited to promote this ill-conceived and damnable war!

Even if this so called torture poll is true(though I highly doubt it), you are saying you wouldn’t hire anyone involved over there,  apparently even if they might represent the 60% who are obviously against torture! By acknowledging that notion you are in affect blaming those who were ordered to take part in this war, who are themselves just as much the victims of White House deceptions as the Iraqi people!

There are always war criminals in any war. I believe those who are should be punished from the top right on down. But you sir are presumptuously convicting an entire nation of enlistees and basing it on a poll that was no doubt fabricated by the real war criminals.

IE “The country did not turn against our troops following or during Vietnam”, Well I had relatives in that war and was a year shy of being a part of it myself. I do know that hardly a family in this nation hadn’t been affected in some way by that war. And the families themselves greeted their own with open arms. I know that some people did treat the soldiers badly when they came home. Some would like us to think they were all hippies who did it when in fact a whole lot of the private sector treated them as losers too. But the families didn’t. The idea that some of the troops themselves should share in the responsibility for their own actions in the war is I suppose what some might call reasonable but I’d say that reason is standing on very thin ice, especially when you consider what being in a war is really all about and what it does to all involved in one. It matters little as to whether you enlisted or were drafted. Once you’re in it what you see, hear and do is based solely on a matter of survival, a primordial instinct. It’s a side of us that most people do not have to see in themselves but that soldiers have no choice but to see. 

What really burns me up is how some people(these armchair generals) tend to suggest that since one joins the army on a volunteer basis they know what they’re getting themselves into and then go on to use that reasoning to justifying our actions in Iraq. How can anyone suggest an 18 or 19 year old kid really knows what he’s getting himself into? These kids are told they’re fighting for freedom and in defense of their country even though in this case they are not. They are sent and ordered to fight by generals and bureacrats. These kids who represent the bulk of our military are coming from the poor and working poor of our nation. They joined the army for the most part to get an education and better their lives since that option in our poorest communities is virtually non existent. They also joined and serve for love of country. Then these armchair generals, many of whom escaped the draft themselves during Vietnam by either joining the guard as Bush did or deferring from service like Rove, Cheney and practically everyone else in this current administration did, with the exception of Colin Powell, are pushing for this so called war on terror, yelling out we can’t lose this war like we lost in Vietnam and are so pro war it simply amazes me! These will be the folks who treat our troops the worst for losing in Iraq, losing for the “Gipper” back home who is nothing short of being a punk and a coward! But just as in Vietnam, the families of those kids will greet them with open arms and so will I because they are our kids and they had nothing whatsoever to do with involving us in this trumped up chicken-hawk war!

CMCPO A. Forget, USN (Ret)

Just wanted to take a moment to thank Scott Ritter for his May 10, 2007, Article “The Good American”.

I served for 30 years on continuous active duty and, in retirement, was reluctant to join either the Veterans of Foreign Wars and the American Legion.

Both organizations do yeoman work in supporting our troops and for that they are deserving of commendation.

I am a life member of the VFW and did join the Legion but do not participate.

Every member of those organizations should be proud of the service they rendered.  It must be noted, however, that very few of them have an understanding of things military other than their own often quite limited personal experiences.

It is extremely unfortunate that they choose to involve themselves in politics as they have in giving their support to a completely unjustified war in Iraq.

I had the privilege of working directly with 11 different admirals (from the time when I served with VADM Theodore D. Ruddock, Jr. in 1953-1955 and met FADM Chester W. Nimitz) till I retired.

I learned from such men that our military exists to be so well manned, trained, equipped, and armed—so prepared to fight war—that no darn fool will choose to do battle with us.

War has been defined as diplomacy through other means.

Thank you, Scott, for pointing out the mistaken beliefs and positions held by so many members of the Legion and VFW.  Serving in a foxhole or in a rice paddy does not necessarily make one knowledgeable about all things military.  Those organizations should continue to provide support to membes of the armed forces.  When they support the positions taken by politicians they go beyond their mandates and charters.

Neither organization should consider themselves an arm of the republican party as they now seem to.

Under fire political positions are or no concern.  As veterans that should also be the case.  Our troops need our support no matter how they might vote.

I HAVE A DREAM.  Everyday I VISUALIZE it.  At 67 years of age (with over 40 years of activism), I hope to live long enough to see it come true.
But I need others to also VISUALIZE and ACT, not on their collective “stupidity,” but their collective “intelligence,”

REAL intelligence (not: “Have no doubt that Dick Cheney, who is, unfortunately, rather intelligent…”  as one writer assessed this madman).

It sickens me everytime I hear people call Karl Rove a genius.  He is the antithesis of genius.  It does not take real intelligence to cheat, lie, manipulate,
steal, cause massive death, and prance around like a little cock with a one-inch dick (it’s called compensation).

INTELLIGENCE that includes heart, spirit, genuine creativity, a sense of “future,” for children and the planet.  That kind of intelligence.

INTELLIGENCE that also acknowledges that sometimes
people become so corrupt and, yes, evil, that they need to be stopped by any means necessary.

INTELLIGENCE that understands that certain laws, domestic and international, were not created as decorative benign statements, but should be enforced
when absolutely and inarguably applicable.

Because I see real intelligence in the following quotes extracted from other responders, I will include them and then conclude:

“To initiate a war of aggression, therefore, is not only an international crime; it is the supreme international crime differing only from other war crimes in that it contains within itself the accumulated evil of the whole. ...Crimes against international law are committed by men, not by abstract entities, and only by punishing individuals who commit such crimes can the provisions of international law be enforced.” And so, by any measure, the death of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis, and the displacement of millions more, is a true war crime.” 

and another…

“I would argue, though, that American citizens need not be conversant with even the basics of Iraqi society to know - and know with absolute certainty - that speculative invasion of a sovereign nation is a war crime.  The murder of hundreds of thousands, the displacement of millions, the criminal use of depleted uranium munitions, of cluster bombs, of white phospherous, these acts alone should be enough to warrant the impeachment and imprisonment of the leaders and enablers of this monstrous enterprise.”

So, if you believe in the POSSIBILITY of collective
consciousness ultimately creating the Hundredth Monkey Effect, please join me in MY DREAM:

That the perpetrators of this horror that has caused and continues to cause the suffering of millions and to which we all must be exposed on a daily basis (today 150 new reported deaths by suicide bombing in Iraq) will ultimately not escape being brought to trial for WAR CRIMES AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

I actively visualize it happening.  I visualize Dick Cheney, George Bush, Condoleeza Rice, Herr Karl, and the rest of the Fascists (including Kissinger) hanging together. 

Generally I am against capital
punishment.  But, one must sometimes make exceptions when it is is clearly needed as a deterrent.  Capital punishment is rarely a deterrent for most crimes, but in the case of leaders who prey on the rest of the world for their personal gain and barbaric ideology, and in the process wreak such irreversible havoc, perhaps it will be.

CAN YOU SEE IT?  TRY IT AS A DAILY MEDITATION.

If you can’t go that far, at least SEE them brought to trial and put in prison together, naked.  For the rest of their lives.

Now, let’s act.  Bombard the Democrats, regardless of what you think about their spinelessness, with emails, letters, calls, whatever.  They are in power.
Hold them responsible.  Demand that they follow the Constitution:

IMPEACH BUSH/CHENEY then support the World’s demand that they be put on trial.

Otherwise…no consequences, deja vu

And my DREAM will instead continue to be the NIGHTMARE in which we all seem to be trapped.

Before a friend told me about Democracy Now! with Amy Goodman and Juan Gonzales, I was starting to get depressed and feel hopeless (start of the 2nd Bush erection, oh, I mean selection).  DN! consistently, intelligently and thoroughly SPEAKS TRUTH TO POWER.  No sound bites.  No hype.  No Rose Garden imbedded reporters.

I agree that if more Americans would tune in to DN! the possibilities for real change would increase.  Many don’t even know how to find it (I didn’t).  If you have community TV stations near you, call them and ask if they carry Democracy Now! and if not, request it.  You can also go online and read it (democracynow.org), and you can ask for email service (free) from them informing you of the content of the day’s program.  But the best way, I think, is watching it on TV.  They have great visuals and exciting music and the most intelligent people in the world, to whom they give TIME to express complex
ideas and educate us.

Kudos to Amy and Juan and the entire dedicated Democracy Now! staff.

Today’s program (Thurs/May 10) had an incredible example of speaking truth to power with Jeremy Scahill’s report to congress on Blackwater.  Check it out!

Re: #69239 by Ernest Canning on 5/10 at 5:43 pm

“With respect to the issue of competent journalism, it is to be found at Democracy Now.org”

Thanks for mentioning this, Ernest. I agree completely. Amy Goodman has no equal among American TV and radio journalists. If the standard for quality journalism in the US were measured against Amy, or if half of Americans watched Democracy Now, the world would become a far different, better place.
If you love truth, justice, and liberty, please watch and support Democracy Now.