hahaha! Leefeller, I never thought of it, but you’re right.  Mark Twain was courageously and unapologetically blunt about his beliefs - and way before his time.

Good comparison.  Still, Twain was a writer and Christopher Hitchens, although a xian, was an abolisher of religion.  In fact, I NEVER saw him lose a debate.  Not once.  He was daring and spoke the truth no matter how many curve balls of illogical palaver came his way.  And sometimes they were just plain lies.  I am reminded of the time he called the Middle Eastern girl a liar regarding wearing the hijab gettup…man did she start back peddling quickly.  She didn’t expect that he would know about her country and it shocked her that he knew she was lying and called her on it…hahaha I love those moments.

Here’s an hilarious and small example that “Coffe with Claire” did on YouTube as a tribute to his wit and prose (unlike his fluffy, ridiculous counter part, “slick willy Craig”. :D Enjoy!

http://youtu.be/5XBbV9yKKuk

Put on ignore…no response? Rather like Hitch did in his debate with William Lane Craig, when he had his behind handed to him to such an extent that he passed on his final statement. He lost several debates by wide margins, in fact.

Constatine was baptized on his deathbed…according to the book I read on him
and noted here…It included this stament….” baptism was not regarded as the
ceremony of admission to the church…but a cleansing process.”

When I attended a Protestant college and took a religion course we had to study
a New Testament translated by a Jewish scholar. In that book the statement in
Matthew..that Jesus told his disciples to go into the world and baptize in the
name of the father son and holy ghost…was not in the earliest biblical
manuscripts of Matthew and was added by another writer.

I also found an argument between two Protestant clergyman (on line) that the
term “holy ghost” appears nowhere in the bible except in Matthew, and was not
used till the council of Nicea. (When Constantine dictated what would be
believed….(The Trininty).. Add it all up and you end up with that charge never
happened. A pagan running the show. Jesus was a jew who charged his
disciples to only deal with Jews earlier in Matthew…which makes all the sense in
the world given Jesus’s lack of concern for any religion but Judaism. Perhaps
those who believe can counter…or just shudder in the truth. I also find it funny
that while Christians love to quote prophecy, Jesus was not the kind of Messiah
any Jew expected. Hence the prophecy got it wrong. And that means god got it
it wrong…..How much crap does a Christian have to swallow from it’s preachers
and priests before he or she gets it? (Lots if one does not have an ounce of
curiosity….poor blokes.

Annie -
I want to say that there are many, many Christians that are not rejoicing at all about Mr. Hitchens. There is nothing so tragic as a man so full of intelligence, wit and courage to choose to exclude himself from God’s grace forever. There is no joy in this for any true Christian. I am stunned by how many people can miss the big picture, as did Mr. Hitchens. I believe that what he and the rest of you are truly railing against are people that CLAIM to follow a religion’s teachings and yet do not. You simply cannot hold the doctrine in error because of those false followers. It is neither moral nor logical. Full disclosure here…It breaks my heart to know that Christopher’s ‘forever’ is now set in stone. It is surely true that not one of us knows when that thief in the night will be staring directly at us. Listen folks…we can argue all day and night about the minutia. Let’s not be looking through a microscope as a two-million- ton freight train is about to hit us between the eyes.

Reit1 Very astute comments on Hitchens, you post dove tails my sentiments better than I can articulate them myself!

Hitchens casutic ability of making fools look foolish was uncanny and I suppose why so many detractors crawl out from under their rocks, every time his name was in Truth Dig (I suppose this was normal elsewhere also), to take issue with him. it was so damn amusing to watch Hitches take on his shallow detractors like he was toying with annoying flies as he brandished his tweeters about with amusement!

Yes, I will miss looking forward to more of his; for those of us inclined; mentoring hijinks.

I may be way out of place here, but Hitchens may have been our generations bawdy Mark Twain?

Thanks Leefeller.  That was actually much nicer than I expected and from what I know of Hitchens (and I’ve read a couple of his books and watch a LOT of his videos on YouTube) it was really accurate.  His thing did seem to be to better the world and get down to the nitty gritty of truth for the betterment of mankind.  I wonder who will speak in his place now. 

I feel an emptiness like there’s no one, the xians are laughing and having a good time saying he’s in hell; and I would guess that they would all dance in red dresses and purple smoking jackets and make merry at his funeral if it didn’t make them look so…honest about how they really are.  But they hide behind masks and the safety of the internet these days.  It’s as Stephen Frye said: “these people are like children.  They cry and troll and push buttons..they want everyone to notice them because they lack love”. [paraphrased].  His answer is to give back kindness always.  But I must admit I will miss Hitchens’ no bullshit, “fuck you, you’re stupid and absurd and here’s why:”  kind of way.

He’s missed a lot by a lot of us who actually think for ourselves.  You can see it all over facebook and twitter, etc.  He’s going to be missed for a long time.

NG - I thought that perhaps his more-than 40 years in the practice and many hundreds of exorcisms might qualify him as an authority.

As to your point about souls, taken from Catholic.com,

Hell is indeed eternal because the soul’s state at death determines its state for eternity. If person dies in the state of mortal sin, God honors that choice forever. The Catechism explains, “If it is not redeemed by repentance and God’s forgiveness, [mortal sin] causes exclusion from Christ’s kingdom and the eternal death of hell, for our freedom has the power to make choices forever, with no turning back” (CCC 1861).

Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, “eternal fire.” The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs. (CCC 1035)

So we see that you are misinformed.

Reit1,

Actually the original Hitching Post was where I received me Atheist benediction in about 2007 when Hitchens book just came out ‘God is Not Great’. If I recall correctly Night-Gaunt may have been their also was the Shenanomious and possibly Tom Edger?  So many names past and a so few present.

The recent article by Sheer is for the meantime in my vew The New Hitching Post, (I do not know how long it will last, the old Post lasted 3 plus years! Yous guys exceed the Old Hitching Post here with the Manifesto by a large margin!

Anyway, here is the new Post by Sheer! “Christopher Hitchens: Reason for Revolt” by ‘Robert Scheer’;
http://www.truthdig.com/report/item/christopher_hitchens_reason_in_revolt_20111216/

Cheers to the memory of Hitch! )  The world has an empty space now..for awhile. :(

Where did you see this at, Leefeller?

I just left the new Hitching Post (Robert Sheers Article) and the sponsored spittle flying hate by so many is amusing from Christians as well as proclaimed atheists, Hitchens the legend!

Hitchens was a great read and his wit was worthy in disagreement as well as agreement.

Toast to Htichens!

And you trust this person why? By your own mythology no one will be in “Hell” (a Scandinavian goddess and location) until the Final Judgment anyway. So why do you babble still on this?

Exorcists maintain that one certain indication of demonic possession in young people is when, during the assessment phase of the individual prior to the exorcism, responses are given that are inappropriate to the age of the individual. In other words, a young person wouldn’t have the knowledge to respond as given.

This is taken from a book entitled , “An Exorcist Tells His Story” by Gabriele Amorth. One day Father Candido asked a thirteen-year-old girl, “Two enemies who hated each other all their lives, hated each other to death, and both ended up in hell. What is the relationship that they will share now, since they will be with each other for all eternity?” And this was the answer: “How stupid you are! Down there everyone lives folded within himself and torn apart by his regrets. There is no relationship with anyone; everyone finds himself in the most profound solitude and desperately weeps for the evil that he has committed.”

I am deeply saddened that your friend, for all his journalistic and speaking talents, must now suffer this eternal and desperate solitude. I implore each of you to consider these words. Your friend’s time on Earth is expired…his lot has been cast of his own free will. You will do the same. I offer these words as a friend…we are much more alike than we are different.

Yes it is sad that we lost such a sharp mind, and tongue, an even though would disagree on some things it was well worth listening or reading him. Rest In the ground Christopher Hitchens (1949-2011) The work is far from done. Too bad we don’t have the tech yet to resurrect bodies or better yet keep them alive and vital and moving to near infinity. Maybe one day we shall.

Please accept my condolences at the loss of your friend.

Many many HITCH SLAPS!  Never enough but they’re so fun.  Enjoy this brilliant man’s slap downs.

http://youtu.be/mQorzOS-F6w

All xians are the same..the very fucking same.  Even my sister who would NEVER tell anyone how to live is an intolerant bigot on the inside.  Others just have the primitive, backward mindset to say such ridiculous shit out loud. 

Rick Perry tweeted today about Christopher Hitchens and couldn’t help but throw in a “fear inducing” dig.  He said “My friend Christopher Hitchens has died,” Warren, head of the Saddleback Church, tweeted. “I loved & prayed for him constantly & grieve his loss. He knows the Truth now.”

I burst out laughing because it reminds me of every fucked in the head xian EVRY ONE of them is really this stupid. And we know that nasty cunt was referring to him being in hell.  hahaha That’s so laughable…even Islam was slapping their knees on that one.  Christians want tolerance for xmas but they sure as hell don’t know hot to give any out.  So today I am just a bit fuckin’ pissed and I say:

Christians FUCK YOU TOO!  It really IS a pity there’s not a hell for you all to fry in.

GOD:  I see Sned, that you didn’t believe in me or Jesus.
ME:    Given what I know about you, do you blame me?
GOD: You mean the killing babies thing in the Old Testament.
ME:    Yeah..that didn’t seem very fair to kill kids based on what their parents
did. Not very nice you know. If we did that we’d be executed.
GOD: I see your point…it bothered me a bit so all the kids are up here.
ME: No kiddin’?
GOD: No kiddin’....I changed my mind long ago. But I like the way you think.
ME: Well that’s my big gripe about believers. Their thinking stops at the second
grade level. You know - “Jesus loves me this I know for the bible tells me so.”
Cross yourself before a foul shot…and all that weird stuff.
GOD Interrupts: Like a gave a S..t!
ME: Right…I mean didn’t you have better things to do?
GOD: Of course…how can I have a decent conversation with you and pick
teams….I leave that to your Las Vegas and the Mob.
ME: Did you see the Soprano’s?
GOD: No..it’s a foul shot kinda thing.
ME: Oh sorry….by the way is Glenno here.
GOD: Yeah. He’s..in retraining.
ME: In what?
GOD: Critical Thinking skills, and Curiosity…two of my better inventions that
you atheists seem to enjoy the most.
ME: Well am I doomed or not?
GOD: Who else could I talk to if I didn’t let you guys in. You folks are
interesting. You’ll challenge even me…Good for you.
ME: Hey that’s great…I mean given a choice I’d rather be around a little longer
anyway.
GOD: You want the “glass is always full hereafter” or the “holy shit I spilled the
milk again hereafter.”
ME: The first sounds way too boring.
GOD: It is… believers like it for 3 weeks on average, then they beg me to go to
the “Holy shit I spilled the milk” hereafter.
ME: And you let them go?
GOD: Not till they finish the courses.
ME: Do the courses have titles?
GOD: Yeah. The first is called “What the hell were you thinking” and the second
is called ” When it makes sense to read something different from what you
believe”
ME: Been there done that.
GOD: I know that. Okay on your way now…I got a report that Glenno’s in the
principal’s office again. Jesus,  he takes up way too much of my time saying
nothing.
ME: Good luck.
GOD: I didn’t invent that yet…I look at it as shit happens.

“I am absolutely convinced that the main source of hatred in the world is religion, and organized religion,” ~Christopher Hitchens, may he rest in peace and his brilliance never be forgotten.

I love this quote of his because right now it’s apropos to this thread….he was so right about so much.

I see that besides your ignorance of religion and logic you also have a reading disability. Already answered then you ignored. So yours is a dry shallow well eh Grin2012 and bear it not?

Go bother the gents at the Red State and Little Green Footballs sites. They are more your speed.

Don’t you see, it all comes down to good old number eight - Free Will is allowed and its consequences are relevant.

Each one has a free will to choose their path but be advised, there are consequences that are relevant in so many ways…such as the scenario presented. I see that neither N-G nor Annie wish to take me on. Well that is OK but that does nothing to diminish the scenario. Putting it in simpler terms, you may say that you refuse to comment on two plus two equaling four but your refusal doesn’t diminish the fact. You may choose to ignore me but you will not be ignored. You will answer one day and refusal will not be an option.

As for me praying on this site, if I am sinning I will have to answer to that as well. I mean well even though I am a sinner. Unfortunately, I have demonstrated that far too frequently. I hope that each one of you have a safe and happy Holiday season.

Oh what the hell would he know?  He prays while he types right out loud in public, then asks forgiveness, makes promises to be a better person and can’t even follow through. Meanwhile his own book states in Matthew 6:6 “But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”

He doesn’t believe in god.  He believes in being a pious would-be xian.  Trolling, insulting and avoiding questions just as you stated so well, NG; and yet he doesn’t even understand the tenet laws of xianity.  Why would he go to it’s heaven and see dead relatives??  It’s a stupid question way off topic anyway. 

He is, at this point and probably earlier on, better off ignored.

A new scenario and you haven’t fully responded to the previous one? Not on your life. Not till you do. But you won’t as always. Just defer and move on to your next scenario. You’ve got to talk to us or good by to you.

Also it was my mother and father who gave me life. Not some super powerful but invisible Father Figure. How about you Grin2012, who gave you life?

As ordinary as each one of us seem, I would be in error if I didn’t say that each one of you are very special to the One that gave you life. I don’t wish to be presumptive but I would like you to carefully consider your response to the following scenario. Please bear with me on this…in the event that one day I should have the opportunity to speak with your loved ones that have passed, what would you have me tell them? Please consider this question carefully before responding. I am hoping to consider each of your responses individually, and provide feedback.

Now it is you Grin2012 and your evasive answers that is getting old. I know you are out numbered so it is harder for you but if you have the knowledge in your head or at your fingertips you can reply to us. But you don’t you pose a question then get slaughtered on it so you safely move on. Take your time with the answers but instead in another evasion you question our knowledge of your holy books. You insult us instead of engaging. Now that is one of the aspects of trolls. They are bomb throwers not conversationalists. But you give nothing substantial. As in proof of it. Just hearsay from you. Just in case you didn’t know hearsay isn’t proof. So you would fail in court, in science and even in a logic class. With such failure I see why you find devious ways to escape the vice you are in. Being here is bad for you, your self esteem and your belief system otherwise you would engage not attack and insult. Go charge up at one of the myriad sites that cater to your point of view then come back to try again.

Internet slang? A new low.

“Monkeys producing the works of Shakespeare?  They wouldn’t have time, being tied up producing Bible Tracts.”

hahahaha PWND!!

Stephen Hawkings
“things can pop in and out of existence”
“You don’t need god”

He did not say “Glenno and his priests know the truth.”
amen

I’m sorry I don’t think you wish to learn from anybody,You stereotype atheists and whilst you may be intelligent in your own way your knowledge of the Bible can be obtained from any decent Bible commentary. You are each unique but quite ordinary.

To be intelligent such that you are able to apply inferential logic and to the existence of any (truthful) science is a contradiction, You truly believe that enough monkeys sitting at typewriters will result in the complete works of Shakespeare?
You believe that the bio mechanics of the human eye, protein synthesis and other constants and so forth are probabilistic in nature and not down to a Magician in the ether.  So who is blind?

It pained me to closely copy that diatribe of nonsense, complete in its lack of syntax, prose,  void of any original thought or construction. I apologise for my own interpretation which was to show it was just empty (vacuous) words.

It is really a pain to see a grown person repetitively presenting the spurious childish points of the Fundamentalist Bible Belt abysmally educated Ozarkian characters, who can never accept their defeat in the Scopes trial.  Monkeys producing the works of Shakespeare?  They wouldn’t have time, being tied up producing Bible Tracts.

I’m sorry folks but I don’t think you learn from anybody. You stereotype Christians and while you are each intelligent in your own ways, your knowledge of the Bible can be obtained from any decent Bible commentary. You are each unique but quite ordinary.

To claim to be intelligent such that you are able to apply inferential logic and to deny the existence of ANY god is a contradiction. You truly believe that enough monkeys sitting at typewriters will result in the complete works of Shakespeare. You believe that the bio-mechanics of the human eye, protein synthesis and other biochemical processes, the dna scheme, universal physical constants and so forth are probabilistic in nature. You are blind by choice my friends.

Don’t be rude just because I am not so articulate when I am working and trying to answer you as promised, glenno.

I think I know what the word “learn” means.  So, let me be clearer for you.  We don’t need to believe everything that someone says based on any sort of diversion from truth - such as faith.  That’s what you do as a faith head.  No, we know what is factual for the most part.  It’s been repeated over and over in the history books that Constantine completely changed and rearranged the story about the Nazarene for political purposes (mainly to win a war). So, that part, while interesting, isn’t necessary for me to learn so much as it’s just a good article for YOU to read, along with any other faith head who may come here to “learn”.

Whether or not Butler believes in reincarnation is irrelevant to me.  Unless he could prove it through history books or documented instances, I personally doubt it, because that is a thing one would take on “faith”.

Clear enough?  You just can’t resist being a smarmy, sucky baby asshole, can you?  You just simply cannot.  Such as it is with faith headed fundies.  Stupid.

“We only learn from different people and take from it what we know to be true…”

You are quite the reader so please pick up your Websters and read the definition of ‘learn’.

A definition of “Reincarnation"could be as complex as any other philosophical profundity.

One could quite honestly say that the “In the ground rotted body”, or the cremated ashes still holds “Energy” then is transmuted into other forms eventually, so being reformed. As for the literal interpretation of actually transmogrificationally turning from one form into a living flesh reincarnation phooey to that.

Once again though it points to the interlopers deviousness in ignoring the truisms regarding Constantine by introducing a diversionary tactic of referring to an irrelevance.

What do you mean “our” expert?  We only learn from different people and take from it what we know to be true and then lend a deaf ear to what doesn’t resonates well with us.  It’s the freedom of atheism.  We don’t have experts, gods or popes. We get to make up our own minds.

About Constantine - it’s absolutely true.  About reincarnation, nope.  I don’t believe it.  When the body is dead, all the human electrical circuitry runs dead, too.  No more you.  No more me.  No I don’t agree with him on that new agey statement.  Absolutely not.  If he asserts that energy keeps going and that it is remixed with matter and so, that is reincarnation; I would say “maybe”.  But I’d still doubt it.

What say you about this:

Despite his criticisms of religion, Butler is not one of those people who believes that death is the end of the trail.  He said Sunday that he believes in reincarnation.

So he believes in the existence of a spirit. Do any of you agree with your ‘expert’?

SNED,  I received a pretty good article today about Constantine, the true father of Christianity and where he got the ideas.

http://acurseonalltheirhouses.net/2011/11/11/how-christianity-was-invented/

Comic break.  You have to watch this for a great laugh.  It really IS FUNNY.  Ricky Gervais reads from Noah’s Ark by Dove Books. :D hahahaha

http://youtu.be/ln64DYflGT4

Oh for crying out loud!!  How does one have a relationship with some guy who may or may not have existed, and do it one way?

When I have a relationship with someone, I hang out with them, go places with them, call them.  I can count on them in a bind.  Even marriages fail when one side of the relationship (husband or wife) fails to live up to their side of things.  How can one possibly have a one-sided relationship with Jesus. You can talk to him (if he ever existed) but the only thing that echoes back to you are your own thoughts.  You can’t go anywhere with him.  You can’t call him up.  You can’t do anything with the guy.  You cannot have a relationship with any god or prophet.  That’s absurd.

The Science Channel….finally
“Mysteries of the Bible explained”

On last night…one of the best shows I have seen that demonstrates the power
and influence of Constantine on Christianity….and leaves no doubt that the
power of not only Constantine, but Christian religious leaders of the time won
the war and re wrote history by systematically destroying all the books of the
bible circulating then (many since found) that contradicted the notion of the
then Gnostics that Jesus had no intention of setting up an organized religion
and hierarchy but instead taught that we all become “sons of god” through our
own actions and experience . There’s a good explanation here:-
http://gnosticschristians.com/ )

It all makes sense…those in control seeking full control…as in America today.
The winners write the history. How true. I can also recommend a pocketbook on
Constantine- “Constantine and the conversion of Europe” by A.H.M. Jones who
is or was a professor on ancient history at Cambridge University.(Published in
1962…but has to be available somewhere)

I have to laugh every time someone tells me that Christianity (as practiced
today) has to be true because there are so many Christians in the world.
When the answer is “it’s because of Constantine…and 2100 years of
persecutions of non believers to include the murder and conversion of
indigenous peoples. (Continued in today’s right wing Christian church’s
positions on gays, Jews and women.)

Some folks just want to stay stupid…and leaders will keep them stupid for as
long as the people pay them to tell them what they want to hear. Amen

hahaha Thus the laws of Exodus!! Written by Jewish men, FOR Jewish men and nothing more.

My definition of ignorance: Reading one book on the human experience and
believing it to be truthful, without fault, or without error, without corruption, or
manipulation and whose contents are inspired by some figure no one has ever
proven to exist at all.

Ignorance competes with understanding the human experience through the
exploration of multiple sources that can be identified, or cross examined,
challenged or proven inaccurate or accurate in whole or parts. It’s that simple.

And if decrees based on ignorance are made, then they should be made with
the admission that they are made by assumptions based on ignorance and faith
in that ignorance.

Science does this on occasion when it proposes theories that cannot be proven
but have some basis for explaining what has yet be be explained. The
difference is that scientists admit when they can’t provide complete proof.

On the other hand Ignorant people will actually try to convince other ignorants
to be even more ignorant..or to switch ignorances. What’s even more
frightening to many ignorants and their leaders is that this country
understands and protects the right to think uniquely. That right must be very
disheartening…even if it is very un-American to think that so.

(if I made up some words that is the nature of our language.)

Well, glenno, I don’t believe that any god provided mothers to watch over their children.  But you’re right if you’re alluding to the notion that human mothers have gone insane lately.  Drowning their children, stabbing them to death with a samurai sword…it’s an insane world which is probably a by- product of being over populated, impoverished and disconnected from our fellow man. That’s just an opinion.  Because even animals in the wild take care of their babies.  So, did the God (or gods) give them this inherent desire to care for their young as well?  If so, what for if they don’t have a soul? There’s no need to multiply brown bears (for example).  But I’d dare anyone to try and go near the cub of a mama brown bear.  You see?  We are all animals.  But I concur that human animals are the most self obsessed and abhorrent of all animals anymore.  But theology hasn’t helped that, has it?  It hasn’t.

Yes, the place in the Bible that I quoted for you was an accident..BUT due to a FIGHT between two men. If the woman dies, the man is a murderer and condemned to death..accident or not.  But if ONLY the fetus dies, he is not condemned for murder. So, accident, or on purpose, or just (in this case) careless actions, God (YHWH) still doesn’t see it as murder. Full stop.  It doesn’t matter the way it dies..it’s the consequences that are being explained.  And they show clearly that God does not see the fetus as “murdered”.

Thank you Grin2012 for proving my point, again! You can pose the questions but you can’t handle the answers. Thanx for coming by and giving us a diversion. Now go back to school, you are in dire need of an expanded education.

Tom - You are one to talk about diversion. Read your response. Point two: You fail for lack of effort as well.

Annie - You provided a well-thought response. Thank you. You seem to have lost track of the fact that your Exodus reference cites an accidental killing as the basis for the ruling.

Free will-driven abortion of all fetuses to prevent future atrocities? I realize that you aren’t advocating that but as one that is against abortion in a perfect world but supports the legal right of people to choose to kill babies in our world, it makes one wonder. By the way, with regard to who is to protect and speak for the unborn, I would argue that God provided Mothers to each baby for that purpose…some of whom of their own free will, choose to abandon their precious children.

You are probably right, Tom, but I did promise glenno.  I’d like to answer.  There’s a Biblical answer for him as well as a logical answer. 

First, Glenno, let’s look to the [many] commandments in Exodus that were supposedly decreed straight from god to Moses: In Exodus 21:22-25 it says that if a man accidentally kills a pregnant woman, that man should be condemned for committing murder. However, if he only kills the fetus - that is, if she miscarries - he is not condemned for murder. Clearly, then, God does not consider the pre-born fetus as being the same as a human being, in which case the Commandment of “Thou Shalt Not Kill (a human)” does not apply. God does not see it the way you do.  For that reason you should ask yourself if you’re not a tad more moral than the god you worship..or at least more humane in your way of thinking.

Also, those little boys were of age, according the the Bible.  They understood and, the oldest one at least could read, and certainly both had committed their first sin making them “born in sin”.  But if it’s true that abortion is abhorrent and all fetuses go to heaven because of those who “speak up for them”, then we should abort all babies!  That way, heaven could finally fill up, and none of these atrocities to little boys aged 9 and 5 could ever take place.  After all, which of you men remember being circumcised? (rhetorical).  No man I’ve ever asked does.  Therefore the fetus suffers less, goes straight to heaven…badda bing!  Problem of first sin, or “born in sin” solved.

It also solves the problem of over-population.  What it doesn’t do is solve the problem of a very contradictory book.  “Thou shalt not kill” - what??

Lads and Ladettes. Don’t bother that was just another diversionary tactic.

Please allow me then to cut to the chase. No editorial comment in this enquiry. No smarmy tone…

Your statement - If God gives free will to Muslims to behead little boys, then there’s no free will for the little boys.  It takes their will from them through hatred and brute strength.  Where was god to protect them?  Alla, Jesus or otherwise?  It says in the book of Proverbs (your book) “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.” -Proverbs 31:8-9   But who was there to protect those boys?  Not the very god who supposedly said that!  He didn’t cause any trouble for those Muslims who beheaded those little boys - they got clean away with it.

My request - please substitute ‘late-term-aborted-babies’ for ‘boys’ in the above and provide your response to your own position. I am requesting that everybody actively involved on this board respond to this request rather than Annie only.

Sure Grin2012 the woman is the main person here, her fetus isn’t unless she deems it. Unless she doesn’t control her body then I ask who? Since if she doesn’t then she is in bondage to another which is the description and definition of slavery. And as usual you avoid the easy answers since to tell us things means we can use it against you which means we have intelligence too. But when you start attacking our intelligence means you are at your wits end. Simple. No need to respond we understand it well. You are out matched three to one. I know that’s unfair for anyone. But I perceive you can’t or won’t because your one leg is a rickety structure to stand on and any one of us with half a brain can knock you off of it. But we use all of our brains as should everyone. But please continue. I find you antics amusing.

Presumptious!  I am against abortion - in a perfect world.  I really don’t like it, I don’t care for the way it’s utilized in such a cavalier way, but I cannot condemn a young girl for doing it if she’s pregnant with daddy’s baby, either.  So, it’s not a perfect world and that forces me to be pro-choice.  Otherwise I can assure you, I am anti-abortion.

You know damn well that you are getting hateful with people.  Very smarmy comments. I understand your stance on abortion even if my reasons for disliking it are different, I still understand you.  There is NO REASON for you to remain here if you’re going to ask Tom “how often did you go without your helmet”, etc.  Honestly, you’re like a child!  Did I really have to explain your poor behaviour to you?

Becoming hateful? What are you talking about? Hateful because I said that aborting babies would be a problem for both the woman and the baby? What would you call it? So let me understand your position. It is fine with you if a doctor sucks the brain from the skull of a half-born baby? Of course my position is that beheading of children is terrible. Here’s the main thing that we cannot come to an agreement on. My position is this…we are spirits with a temporary body. The ultimate concern is for the Spirit. Terrible things happen to bodies; however, if the spirit is secure that is MORE important. I am not advocating cruel behaviors toward any human being; furthermore, I cannot ignore the killing of innocent babies unlike the unfaithful. Done with me? So be it. Good luck to all…

@Leefeller,

That very parody was posted on Beyond Faith and Superstition on FB today.  Of course, we loved it.  Rick Perry is a complete idiot!  Attempting to cause the pendulum to swing back to his side-the supposed xian side, because Obama made some (truthful) cracks about religion.  What a turd!! He’s a complete sell-out. Like most xians!

Glenno,

Yes, your answer to SNED did answer what I didn’t understand from you.  And my response is the same as the one Night Gaunt gave you regarding mice.  There’s no real free will when you have two choices only.  Love and believe in the invisible and obtain heaven (maybe) or burn for all eternity for questioning it. (the most intelligent thing and obvious thing to do). God damns intelligence?

If God gives free will to Muslims to behead little boys, then there’s no free will for the little boys.  It takes their will from them through hatred and brute strength.  Where was god to protect them?  Alla, Jesus or otherwise?  It says in the book of Proverbs (your book) “Speak up for those who cannot speak for themselves, for the rights of all who are destitute. Speak up and judge fairly; defend the rights of the poor and needy.” -Proverbs 31:8-9   But who was there to protect those boys?  Not the very god who supposedly said that!  He didn’t cause any trouble for those Muslims who beheaded those little boys - they got clean away with it.  And it’s an epic fail again, because if those Muslims convert to xianity and ask god to forgive them, and Jesus to save them, they get off scott free - and you know it!  This causes a big problem for you and your bullet 8.  It is an EPIC fail.

Why are you becoming hateful again?  You are the type of person who turned me straight away from xianity.  Because you bare your soul to all of us and show that this doctrine is absolute lies and bullshit.  Not that we can’t see it anyway.  I am sure most of us can quote the Bible even better than you.  But because if xians acted like love, it would force us to view it in a different light.  We would have to say in all honesty something along the lines of “the book is contradictory and out of date, but there must be something to it because xians are happy, kind and forbearing)”. We wouldn’t likely have pages about it. What would be to say?  It would be like the Amish.  But instead you xians are the poster children for atheism.  I personally thank you for that, but I would truly appreciate it if you would, for just once, keep your word and be good to your perceived enemies.  You made a PRAYER on this page regarding that.  Is this a joke?  I can only deduce that your religious beliefs are absolute fantasy even to you, and that you’re here only to play devil’s advocate.  In short, you’re an absurd, miscreant gnat.

Find another sandbox. I am fresh out of forgiveness for you.

SNED -
My translation of your latest hissy-fit toward me…I don’t know how to respond to Glenno so I’ll just say that I’m done with him because he doesn’t respond. Right SNED. Don’t let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

Well it seems god is very busy for the Holidays not believing in Rick Perry right now!

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/08/parody-ad-god-does-not-believe-in-rick-perry/

Go read “Where the hell is god?”

Glenno..it is amazing what you won’t respond to.
In essence you are simply ignorant.
One of the sheep.
You want to stay uninformed because it makes you feel good.
And we fell into the Glenno trap again.
No more.
Bye.

I may have missed this…is anybody on this forum aware of Mike’s status? Haven’t seen any posts from him.

You’re a funny guy, N-G! Some advice…don’t give up the day job.You are on the brink of intellectual disqualification. Please try that answer again if you wish.

Tell me what is the punishment an abortionist get for their work in your Christian world? What is the penalty for the woman who has it done? Once you answer check my analogy in relation to it thanks.

Annie said: Ok Glenno,

Explain what you meant by freewill having consequences that are relevant even to their progeny.

Response - the abortion example is an example where exercising free will has a direct and relevant consequence on the progeny.

Just another example of where Glenno DOES respond, for the record.

N-G - Your point eludes me. Please restate your position relative to free will, using my example regarding abortion as the basis. Thanks in advance.

Our own “free will” within the Christian myth is equivalent to the mice in the maze. They have choices but limited to what the creators of the maze want them to chose. Not really free. It is in fact a false choice system, like our present electoral system. Others chose who we get to vote on even when there are better choices out there.

Annie you said: Glenno, I want your explanation.  Because to be honest, mankind had never NOT had freewil - even according to the Bible.

Name one time in the Bible when Adam did NOT have free will.  You can’t.  Because he was free to express lonliness, so god created woman.  He was free to name all the animals, etc.  That’s how the story goes BEFORE the “fall”.  He was FREE to do as he pleased.

My response: I agree. Did I say otherwise??

Then Annie said: So, I really don’t understand how free will, and living in a more primitive vs privileged country has anything to do with the difference between your situation and the situation of two little boys who were beheaded.

My response: I don’t understand how your question relates to the facts you are citing. Perhaps the response I just provided SNED will shed light on your enquiry.

SNED - you said…A child does not have free will…certainly not in the sense that an adult has. The argument that free will is responsible for all that happens to us is ludicrous.

Glenno responds: I agree that a child does not have free will in the same sense as an adult. I didn’t say that free will is responsible for all that happens to us. You are skilled at misquoting others. So let me say it slowly so it can sink in. P-o-i-n-t E-i-g-h-t…the consequences of free will are relevant. This CAN BE a physical consequence or a spiritual consequence. An example of each: A woman chooses to murder her fetus by means of a late term abortion. THAT IS A FREE CHOICE in case you don’t recognize it. The relevant physical consequences: the mother may be injured by the procedure, Secondly, a fetus (a.k.a. baby) is dead.Here is the spiritual consequence: the woman will one day answer to it. Is that clear enough?

FREE WILL of the victim is NOT responsible for a victim being mugged. FREE WILL of the mugger IS a factor in commitment of the crime. FREE WILL is relevant and has consequences. Enough on this already. WOW…hope you get it.

SNED, I want you to know that I didn’t forget your son when I wrote that.  I just didn’t feel it was my place.  And I am sure you can guess why.

That last bit was a good post. It is absolutely ludicrous to believe that free will has anything to do with two little boys being beheaded, other than to say - yes, there are maniacal Muslim radicals roaming free in Thailand who are freaks of nature and all that is beautiful.  THEY certainly exercise their power to bully and control.  But, like you, I am failing to see what this has to do with a god.

Glenno, I want your explanation.  Because to be honest, mankind had never NOT had freewil - even according to the Bible.

Name one time in the Bible when Adam did NOT have free will.  You can’t.  Because he was free to express lonliness, so god created woman.  He was free to name all the animals, etc.  That’s how the story goes BEFORE the “fall”.  He was FREE to do as he pleased.

So, I really don’t understand how free will, and living in a more primitive vs privileged country has anything to do with the difference between your situation and the situation of two little boys who were beheaded.  I was hoping you would explain.

A child does not have free will…certainly not in the sense that an adult has. The
argument that free will is responsible for all that happens to us is ludicrous.
You don’t take a child’s life because of free will. That is not the sign of a loving
god. It’s the sign of a lunatic. 

Glenno reminds me of a relative who screwed around on his first wife, ignored
his kids, put golf first, got divorced and then claimed that god hooked him up
with his second wife….but never blamed god for any of his screw ups. God
always wins. And he wins here too because Glenno is afraid to exercise his free
will and read something that he doesn’t agree with…even though it’s written by
someone much more experienced in religion than he is.

All in all it’s very sad. By the way Glenno. I also lost a child. It hurts like hell…
but I didn’t go through all the confusion of “Why him God? Why me God? and all
that bull…t. I recognized that he was dead and that I could do nothing to
change that. And there was no wake…there was no funeral…we had a memorial
where we honored him. No prayers. And we moved on. If you want to believe
that the bible was written with the hands of god you have to disbelieve
everything you know about human beings and power.Everything…because all
the real evidence says that power created the bible…human power and greed,
and even a need for peace. Constantine wanted to stop the religious bickering
in his empire…and to do so he stated that he would make the decisions to do
that….and that’s why you have the Christianity that you have today…and that’s
why you have all the magic in the Roman Catholic Church…all the
saints…places to go after you die, statues, relics, confession, and on and on.
Most of it by Constantine forcing the marriage of paganism with whatever Jesus
believers were into. It’s all on the history books. And it all makes sense. But
who wants to believe you don’t deserve a life hereafter? Not you Glenno.

Mother Theresa died an agnostic at best, and probably an atheist, Why? Too
many prayers not answered. Too many sick kids. Too many dying kids in her
arms. Yet she will be made a saint.Why? Power. Corrupt power.

Protestants in general are more kind…but today’s right wing Protestants are
just as bad…and are doing their best to dumb down America. Creationism. No
respect for science. Keep em dumb! And Glenno…you’re right there with the
sheep, fooling yourself into believing in Magic. Yet you’re an atheist too. You
only believe in your religion’s god. While we don’t believe in anyone’s god…and
all we ask is that you think….and study and go beyond the bible. Too bad you
can’t do that. The bible is false.

Annie -
You have studied the Bible inside and out. You don’t need my answer…

Ok Glenno,

Explain what you meant by freewill having consequences that are relevant even to their progeny.

No Annie…you did not understand the point I was making and Tom, you are very funny! You ask why everybody else responds to me and then you respond to me in a way that shows you are off there in left field somewhere…how many years did you play football without a helmet?

Why bother with this nut case? There never has been an occasion when he replied coherently to any contradiction.

My last contribution and not directed in his direction was about my friend’s demise over a long period, the only response to this sorrowful period was that the dying man would have been praying for me.I never mentioned that John would have been praying, his whole extended family, some who are also Ministers of Religion, his congregation were also fervently, and unsuccessfully, praying for dear John but that was, somehow, irrelevant.

Furthermore the fool seems to be surprised that an atheist and a Fundamentalist Minister could be friends.  It is simply that we both have a great deal of tolerance and recognise we all have a right to our particular philosophical attitudes. I still communicate with his wife, and his daughters one who is married to Minister. Oh! Yeah!  They all pray for my conversion.  Waste of time and breath. It, like every other prayer, goes unanswered, not surprising when you are just mumbling into the breeze.

I have Homosexual friends both male and female.  Personally I view with abhorrence same sex coupling as much as they do for opposite sex copulation. As long as we do not insist that they adopt our ways then there is no problem.  Therein lies the crux of the religionists frustrations.  They insist that not only are we wrong in being atheists but so often we MUST accept laws and strictures peculiar to their religious more’s.  We don’t want them to become atheists, as much as we believe it would benefit them and the rest of mankind, just leave us to our own devices. The “Gays” don’t try to recruit straights to their fold.  Why do some Christians persist in evangelising to anybody, atheist, Hindu, Muslim, who doesn’t adopt their convoluted thinking?

Glenno, if I understand you correctly, you are saying that Muslims have free will to cut the heads off of little boys. Ok. Obviously they do in Thailand, and they also have the brute force there.  But how does that compare with what happened to you?  Doesn’t it seem incredibly harsh that God allowed the free will of Muslim brutes to behead little boys because of their parents and geographical location, meanwhile whispering to you to get out of the way so that you could live in a country where these things aren’t of concern?  That smacks of “my parents are better, and so is my country, therefore god loves me more.” Doesn’t it?  It also makes me think that God had more concern for your parents than for the parents of your friend who died and undoubtedly left them brokenhearted.

How does that work?

Annie -

Here is the answer…as heartbreaking as it is…

bullet 8 of counter-manifesto
- Free Will is allowed and its consequences are relevant

As it will be with each of us. Our free will determines our eternity and perhaps that of our progeny (in Africa and elsewhere).

Yeah, drunk drivers.  I have a thing about that myself.  I thought it was interesting that Mel Gibson was hammered to death for asking a Jewish cop if he was a Jew and then rambling off that Jews were the main problem with the world.  Everyone lost sight of what the important problem there was. He was driving drunk.  If I had been that Jewish cop I would have said “Yes, I am.  And now I am your problem.  You’re under arrest.”  But nooo.  Let’s forget that he was doing the worst thing a person can do behind the wheel and focus on the word “Jew”.

But I digress.  Well, it goes back to what I said before.  You were the half that lived in the “half chance” scenario.  Because your experience begs the question: why didn’t God tell your friend to move, get out of the way, etc.?  Was it for some greater good?  Because I guarantee you, whether a person believes or not, when they lose a child the pain and emptiness can not be assuaged by an afterlife.

Also, as a believer, has it ever occurred to you that you cannot trust any deity who would create this hell hole where you had to witness a friend dying, and horrific other scenes? He set it up for blood sacrifices!  What? Can you actually believe that your friend went to a better world?  What if he’s tricking everyone there as well?  You have to admit he’s a prankster.  I personally believe the reason is because “he” was a group of Jews spewing b.s.  But for all intents and purposes, let’s say they were right when they wrote of him (god -YHWH).  What does that say about him?  How can you trust him a second time?  Do you?

I don’t blame you for being grateful, for feeling good that you had a quick mind that said “trouble” in a quick instant and it saved you.  I don’t believe you should have survivor’s guilt or any such thing.  But it really was half chance, and in your case Glenno survived and his friend did not. Also, I am sure that you’ve concidered that perhaps you wouldn’t have died, rather you could have been paralyzed or come through it anyway!  There’s a number of variables that could have happened.  This is the thing.  It doesn’t make sense that god told you to move and yet turns his back on the starving Christian children of Darfur, Sri Lanka or any other place where they cry out to him, but he drowns them, allows beheadings, etc.  I want you to look at this article.  It’s very graphic - you should know that ahead of time.  But I want you to read it and tell me what you believe this 9 year old boy could have done to save himself or to have God save him and show mercy to him and his beloved little brother who clearly wasn’t even old enough to know what was happening or why.

I just want your opinion on this in contrast with the incident that happened to you as a boy.

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/05/09/thailand-muslims-behead-a-9-year-old-boy-warning-graphic-images/

Annie -
I rode on rear fenders regularly, as any boy has done. There was no reason to get off the fender. It wasn’t a thinking process like, “I wonder if the bar between the seat and the handlebars would be better”...It was more of a “move…now”. Had I stayed there, I die and so does the boy driving. I move, I live. The other boy still dies. I remember the voice in my head like it was yesterday. In reality, it was 43 years ago. A drunk driver hit the bicycle from behind.

Ok..I remember it somewhat. Your friend died, I believe. 

Did you ever think that it was your subconscious telling you to move?  The brain is powerful muscle. That’s even absurd to say it that way.  It’s extremely powerful. So, did you ever have that thought. i.e. “that was really me, because my friend died as a result”...anything like that?

the rear fender of the bicycle and the voice, “move” “now”...

Will you remind us?  I don’t remember ever having evidence for a personal god.

Annie - I sincerely appreciate your honest response and I respect you for having shared it with me. Long ago, you or somebody else asked me for evidence of a personal God and I provided it. I’m certain that you remember it; therefore, there can be no doubt that a personal God exists. That is a truth that cannot be removed. There is much that I do not understand but this much I do understand: I examine nature and I see more than natural variation. I do not believe that ‘science’ and a Created universe need to be mutually exclusive, contrary to the box into which atheists continue to attempt to place the faithful.

No, Glenno.  I never really believed like what you’re saying, although I have heard those words before from Protestants..or similar words.  But even as kids my siblings and I would discuss our doubts. We felt like pawns, etc. We discussed all kinds of odd things about the Bible.  I followed the church like a sheep for a good part of my life; that’s very true, but that’s all I was doing- following.  Not really investigating at all! 

The best way to substantiate your doubts about any god is to look into the faces of your dead children and know and admit that they are gone.  I am sure that a lot of mothers comfort themselves with those words “I will see them again” - in fact a lot of people say that about all of their relatives.  But I never felt that.  I felt they were dead.  That’s what my motherly intuition told me then and I can say it honestly and out loud now in a way I couldn’t then (just in case..always doing that Pascal’s Wager thing).  But now it’s okay.  They’re as dead as they can be and one day I will be, too.  I have no hope of seeing them or anyone else, and I have no regrets about having been a sheep, either, believe it or not!  If I hadn’t wanted to follow so closely and appease the god who was angry enough at me for something that he would take my kids (for the greater good people said)..I wouldn’t have studied the Bible.  And if I hadn’t done that, I would have stayed in the same deluded place of torment that I was in.  “why me, what did I do so wrong, other people are worse (judemental hate and envy)?”, etc., and so forth.  I no linger do that.  It’s half chance for everyone and these are the facts.  Tomorrow or tonight it may be YOUR children or SNED’s or Tom’s or anyone else’s.  No one can free themselves from death.  It’s there..it comes for everyone and no amount of fairy tales or wishful thinking can stop it.  One day you will cease to exist. Full stop..there is no more.  When you embrace that concept, I promise you - all your fears of facing a wrathful god, (and I know you do fear that) a PRICK of a god, or maybe Allah (in case THEY’RE right)or some other whack job, disolves and becomes the nonsense that it is. That is when you have peace.  Truth brings more peace than faith will ever give you. 

Why do you have such a deep seated need for faith?  Faith is not a path to truth.  It’s the diversion from it!!  I submit to you that you open your eyes and be free.  There is no god, no heaven, and no dead relatives waiting to usher you into a place that is forever and ever and ever and ever and ever and ever. 

Anyway, nothing’s that fun.

Dear Annie - I think that you KNOW that God is very real. Come on Annie…let’s dispense with the games. This sick prick? Annie, you once held God close. You were happy beyond measure because you KNEW beyond ANY doubt that your children were safe in Jesus’ loving arms. Furthermore, you were going to be with them again forever. What could possibly pry that from you? You allowed the Evil One to steal your joy. I’m certain that you didn’t intend for it to happen but it did. You know that what I say is true. The Evil One is fooling you into thinking that your knowledge exceeds God’s grace. It does not. Truly I’m telling you right now, Annie…although you may hate me, I love you as one of God’s flock. Of course you remember how the prodigal son was welcomed home. The Father dropped all he was doing…the heavens rejoiced with the return of this lost one. That parable is meant for you, Annie. It can all be yours again. I am praying for you Annie. These people on this blog are not your friends. You know that Satan will find the weakest link and then deceive you. You have been deceived. Open your eyes, Annie. Look at God’s creation. The Saints await you. Timeless eternity awaits you. No need to respond to me. This is YOUR salvation. I am nobody…you are EVERYTHING to your Father in Heaven. The Good Shepherd is looking for his lost one.

Tom - Your ‘dearest’ friend. Really? And yet you remained an atheist in spite of him being a Pastor? Well, I obviously didn’t know your dearest friend; however, I suspect that his most fervent prayer was for those around him rather than for himself…family and dear friends. Friends for whom he was praying that they might come to accept the free gift of salvation. He may have suffered terribly but was probably praying for you. Does that theme sound familiar? Hmmm…Well, he may have suffered for a long, long time but that has now passed and he is experiencing his eternal reward. You will choose your reward as well, Tom. Like Annie, you can choose to be with those you claim to love. Pride is a terrible stumbling block, Tom. Your time on Earth is as sand through the hour glass and eternity awaits your choice. Listen to that quiet voice, Tom. It might be that dear friend that has never left your side.

If I may paraphrase the infamous Propaganda Minister of the late, cursed Third Reich of Germany in relation to Jews.

“If there was no god we would have to create one.”

That sums it up. for the majority of people they need such things to survive. I put the blame on Evolution. Whatever works not whatever is best comes through on this. But what is good for thousands of years is bad now.

Yes Grin, go away you are a waste of our time.

Thank you, Leefeller.

You can find your sock in the dryer lint catcher. hahaha

Reit1, a good read and seemingly an emotional one!

“Regarding the link: it’s silly and arrogant to believe in a god, and to believe that god is all-knowing and cares about you and is peeking in on everything you do.”

How does one explain strange happenings? At first I believed little people where amusing themselves at my expense and where hiding all those missing socks. Things really got bad, when I discovered someone was drinking me tequila good tequila is not cheap. I finally got myself a cat to rid my house of little people, well things still seem to be missing, so it seems their must be a god or my cat is drinking me tequila?

Enjoyed your post, I find it a refreshing bit of logic, especially now when manipulators are destroying the world.  I have incomplete thoughts on this right now I need to find one of those missing socks!

Oh, I meant to add that on top of all the atrocities god throws at sinners that Pat and Jerry’s bunch doesn’t like, he actually changes his plans OR he had that planned all along.  If it’s the former, it’s insane, and if it’s the latter, who could trust this maniac who said in Numbers that he’s not like man, he does not lie nor change his mind.

That makes him like the first maniacal analogy.  He planned it all along.  People are pawns in this sick prick’s mind.  I’m so glad there’s no god. I can’t endure the thought of doing ANYTHING forever.  Certianly not praising this prick…the one who ignores priests and turns a blind eye to their paedophilic urges, and doesn’t seem to care at all about the prayers of those 7 year olds who are being tormented, raped and buried alive.

What a cunt.  I almost wish he existed so I could beat the living fuck out of him.  Instead, I’ll take it out on faith heads - they started this lie anyway.  Better for me not to lower myself and become like this “god” and misdirect my anger.

Regarding the link: it’s silly and arrogant to believe in a god, and to believe that god is all-knowing and cares about you and is peeking in on everything you do.  But it’s the height of arrogance to believe that he would change his plans for your whispered prayers. He did, after all, and as the story goes, set all things in place ahead of time.  We know from the insane ramblings of Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson, for example, that 9-11 was meant for abortionists, homosexuals and other sinners in America like that - yet he misdirected his anger at the WTC and thousands of innocent people..AND YHWH did it through the “power” of Allah.  Such an interesting and petty character this god.  How he loves to run the field of craziness.

But anyway, according to Pat Robertson, Katrina and Port au Prince was for the “very lowly scum” who live in New Orleans and Haiti.  It must be nice to sit in a suit on t.v. and pretend to have such vast knowledge of the god you believe in whilst telling everyone else that he’s a mystery.

One might think god is fake and a figment made up by these very type of men a long time ago. Men who, while sitting in their tents, no doubt having circle jerks about virgins, were placing themselves about women, children and animals - all because they could.  They had the power to do so.  The fact that this shit is carried on in 2011 almost 12 is fucking NUTS!  It’s INSANITY.  It’s disgusting.

I have noticed, though, that god seems to keep missing the sand storm that should hit Vegas any day now.  Must be a lot of prostitutes, beggars and such praying so that he’s changed his plans for them.  I wonder why he ignored the Christian members of New Orleans and Port au Prince?

Glenno

I asked for a book report and you get insulted? Yet you had the gall to bring up
the death of Annie’s children? Yes I asked for a book report…there was no insult. I
asked you to read or watch Erhman, or read a short book on one Jesuit’s thoughts
on prayer. Please go away again. Pretty please. Your have proven that your word
is meaningless and useless. That’s how you demonstrate your fervent
Christianity..by lying? What a laugh.

“Jesus develops two basic kinds of prayer. The first is “showcase prayer” by which
the person praying actually draws attention to himself.”  Nuff said. Thank you
Jesus.

Well Grin2010 your cute little web site is just an expositor of my analysis. So? No engagement from you just a web site of pat hard thought out answers for so many who don’t get “help.” The easier answer is that there is no god, there are no answers to prayers and those who are “helped” fall into a normal statistical number. But you and yours of the same mind can’t function that way. You’d rather commit suicide than have to live without that kind of mythic hope.

Night Gaunt.

You know that guy is really in need of serious counseling.  I recall my dearest friend, John White,  took seven long distressing years to die from Parkinsons. This gentlest of gentlemen, who my wife and I loved dearly, had degrees in Science?Engineering and Theology to my certain knowledge he never harmed a person in his life, suffered enormously.

That the idiot who wrote that stupid article could say that to have prayers answered then you had to have a special relationship with “God” makes me want to puke.  Oh I forgot to say John was a Pastor and a leader in The Church of the Nazarene. Didn’t help him one bit.

N-G & Tom - http://www.everystudent.com/wires/prayers.html

My mom sincerely believed she was supposed to live far longer than she actually did. I don’t know if it did anything to her faith but the second cancer took her very fast. After going through hell she survived one kind of cancer then 3 weeks later liver cancer very aggressive and she was dead in two months.

I was never religious or superstitious but everyone else in my family is. I see prayer as just a psychological support mechanism. And the astute human minds have concocted a reason why so many prayers fail. They were answered in the negative. Humans are so good and coming up with answers to vexing questions in their minds. Even it that answer is at best hypothetical, at worst totally imaginary.

I give up after so many unsuccessful attempts to log in I will have to come as a new boy.

I now know that God does not answer prayers I say this as a WW2 veteran.  Recently a friend said he prayed for victory in WW2 as did the rest of his nation, overwhelmingly, Christians. He was German.

My mother prayed a lot but it did her no good, when the bomb dropped nearby, damaging our home, she was injured whilst her atheist son had conveniently taken a one week holiday away. Then later there was the torpedo my ship evaded allowing it to hit the American Liberty ship close by,  that one was undoubtedly filled with Christian crew members, whilst our Limey mob were definitely an irreligious lot. Ho Hum.

SNED - Don’t feel bad…there are many things that I cannot explain as well, as I have demonstrated on this blog. Anyway…your condescending comment about book reports isn’t appreciated. Furthermore, my prayer was sincere. The Bible teaches that we are to acknowledge God…to profess our faith. You have faith as well, SNED. I believe it is misdirected. I believe that one day the truth will be revealed to both of us and because eternity is timeless, it won’t be a slow boat at all. I have a compass directing where my boat lands.

To Glenno…Hope you get a chance to read or watch Bart Ehrman. Be interested in your take.(He was a born again). Also try a really short book entitled “Where the hell is God” by Richard Leonard SJ….He makes the point that God doesn’t give a s..t about protecting you or me. (See your prayer) You see he takes what happens to humans and makes the case that no loving god would help a Jesus believer and then kill 200,000 people in a tsunami…including a bunch of Jesus believers. That praying for rain or making a foul shot is a total waste of time. Of course not believing even that puts me one step beyond. But at least , for you he’s a believer…and Erhman knows more about the bible than you’ll ever want to know. Why not a couple of book reports?  By the way I just discovered that the diameter of the universe is almost 160 billion light years! (I can’t explain why) Let’s assume heaven is somewhere beyond that…what a trip! Boring! No diners. No books. You just magically get there on the slow boat going the speed of light. God do you folks believe in magic or what? By the way Jesus told you to pray in a closet. Seems no Christians want to believe him…inlcuding you. Go figure.

Did you HAVE to rattle the cage Night Gaunt?