Mr. Larry Vinkemulder, you offer nothing except your own beliefs.  You are welcome to believe what you want.  Please. however, do not make me believe what you believe.

Are you saying tgambill that there was a time when there was no universe and no Heaven and that at some undetermined time, then, your God created the universe and the Heaven to which you refer?

The one true God that created this universe and Heaven, stepped down and came to Earth unveiled as the form of Jesus Christ.  He came down and became man in order that we would have eternal life with him.  this is the short of it.

Believing something is real is not the same thing as presenting evidence that something is real.  Maybe you could say what real is and that way we will not be mistaken.  Personal experience is not enough to convince non-believers.  And that is only important if you are not talking just to believers.  So while it is somewhat nice to know what someone believes, non-believers don’t really give a flying fig (some would use other words).  If one does not find how to overcome deep spiritual obstacles (whatever those might be) and ‘generational curses” (whatever those could possibly be as well), through any means but by believing in a savior, then that is a personal and unique achievement and not one that is helpful to anybody else.  It is hard to imagine exactly how atheist humanists can help such an individual.  What could they possibly offer?  Please provide the evident texts, and subtexts of any being’s transcendental nature and what the f is true speak anyway?  Please provide an example, thank you.  The rest of George Crist’s post is gibberish.  We, me myself and I, are truly glad he is a better person since I am always glad to learn people are better but I also need to ask better than what at what time in his past?  We have a right to ask don’t we?  And how do you know, George, what your supernatural being sweats and doesn’t sweat, small or big?  And why cannot that supernatural being answer trivial prayers, and what big ones (exactly how big do they have to be anyway) has this supernatural being answered and for whom? 

Actually most of us do grow up for ourselves and we do what we should be doing alone for ourselves and we do also die by ourselves (I threw that last one in just in case there was any leftover question about it).  This is that of which human existence consists.

tgambill, down from where did your God come down, exactly?  Or is that just a figure of speech?

I should mention that Gods greatest miracle was when he came down, unveiled and became man to give his human life so that we might live forever if we follow for one, Romans 10:9 and repent.

“I’m a better person for following the Christ.”

***one think to mention.  The Christ is a title and the problem is that there may be many Christs appear.  There is only one that is God incarnate.  This was Jesus that did die on the cross and was raised from the Dead.  He will be the very one returning to vanquish the anti-Christ and set up his eternal kingdom.  There will be a Christ coming but it will be the Anti-Christ or Lucifer/Satan in human form.  The Christ consciousness is a New Age Movement concept.  Its not true as the New Age Religion will be occult in nature. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pwGLNbiw1gk&feature=related

“At the same time God doesn’t sweat the small stuff, and will not answer trivial prayers, instead letting us grow up for ourselves in doing what we should be doing alone for ourselves, and so to grow up and experience and learn from life.”

*****Right and not entirely right.  God will answer all prayers when the prayers are in his will and asked with faith.  Yes, he won’t answer some because he knows better at what we need.  There is somthing to say about, “Be careful for what you pray for, you might get it”.... )

It is an irrefutable fact that, for example, Wall Street, Prescott Bush, DuPont’s, Rockefeller’s, Rothschilds, IBM, Henry Ford, and many more fully funded Hitler in 1928.  Wall Street group also funded Lenin and the Bolsheviks after setting up Karl Marx to write the communist manifesto and Karl Ritter to write the anti-thesis called facism planned for war after 1870.  The short story of this.  Massad organized covertly Hamas, and the CIA basically designed and through many terrorist cells controls Al Qaeda or the name of Al Qaeda to orchestrate the terrorist attacks in order to justify the Next war…...for a world order.

“Of course, i should have known you had a fat old King James as your GOD!”

******:))  yes, you should have known it.  The King James is not my God, my God inspired the Fat old King James Bible and saw to it that it was translated. 

“The Bible was NOT FAXED in!”

*****No, but it was “willed in”....a lot cheaper than a fax.  Can you imagine the toner that would be needed.

“The stories are about ANCIENT people and their struggles and misunderstandings of God.”

******The stories in the Bible tell us of our origin and our destiny.  God cleared up the misunderstandings personally.  Can’t beat having a last supper with the “Great I AM”.  Can you imagine how much his autograph would be worth by now if he only signed a napkin.

“All scripture is useful, and all has been revealed-just NOT realized!”

******Scripture from the Bible is up to date and I’m not sure I understand what you mean about “not realized”.  Its only for us to put to action the lessons and have faith in its promises.

“You’re just left with yourself all the time, whatever you do anyway. You’ve got to get down to your own God in your own temple. It’s all down to you, mate…that what people call God is something in all of us.”

********In all of us means the Holy Spirit.  The HS is only going to inspire when we take Jesus as Savior.  Satan and select demons fill up the void otherwise.

“I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It’s just that the translations have gone wrong…Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary.’

******Jesus can’t be included in the List. Jesus is God incarnate.  The others never claimed to be and wasn’t.  He picked ordinary people for a reason and made them fishers of men performing miracles.  They all died claiming his divinity.  No one will die for a lie.  Even the suicide bombers wouldn’t die for a lie, as they believe in their cause.  Even their cause is for a pagan god, or sun god, they still believe. 

“It’s them twisting it that ruins it for me…All we are saying is give peace a chance”

******I agree with giving peace a chance.  However, the Illuminati has been planning wars for a long long time.  All three world wars were planned between 1850-1871, by Albert Pike.  The third world war is yet to come.  Peace was never an option for these people.  ALL of our wars have been fought for the bankers and the phased in World Order step by step.  Not once in our history have we fought for our Rights and the freedom we claim to have.  Its a facade that few Americans know about and many don’t want to know. 

“All you need is love…Imagine all the people living life in peace. You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one. I hope someday you’ll join us, and the world will be as one…Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.”-saint John Lennon”

*****John Lennon was brought into the scene as the link said, and they had him killed because he was speaking against the war.

Of course, i should have known you had a fat old King James as your GOD!

The Bible was NOT FAXED in!

The stories are about ANCIENT people and their struggles and misunderstandings of God.

All scripture is useful, and all has been revealed-just NOT realized!

“You’re just left with yourself all the time, whatever you do anyway. You’ve got to get down to your own God in your own temple. It’s all down to you, mate…that what people call God is something in all of us. I believe that what Jesus and Mohammed and Buddha and all the rest said was right. It’s just that the translations have gone wrong…Jesus was all right, but his disciples were thick and ordinary. It’s them twisting it that ruins it for me…All we are saying is give peace a chance…All you need is love…Imagine all the people living life in peace. You may say I’m a dreamer, but I’m not the only one. I hope someday you’ll join us, and the world will be as one…Reality leaves a lot to the imagination.”-saint John Lennon

“IMAGINATION is Evidence of The Divine”-William Blake

IMAGINE: A Sisterhood of Man:

http://www.youtube.com/user/eileenfleming

“He was talking about a TRANSFORMATION of heart and mind to see The Divine in ALL people!”

******You are making up your own rules and rules established by the Satanic New Age Movement.  No wonder you have Atheist.  I can’t blame them.  You have atheist that in accordance with the world we live in, are good people, they just don’t believe in the supernatural.  Then you have preachers, pastors, mediums, Priests, POPE’s, evangelicals that are going to Hell faster than any atheist would ever think about.  why? Because these men and women of GOD know the truth, have access to the truth but are lying.  Woe to their souls and their eternity that even the elect will be deceived.  That they spread the lie. 

“Mystics are New Age Dogma and in effect a counterfeit Christianity.”

THANKS for the best laugh I have had this year!

*****Mystics are part of the Occult and New Age Movement. 

“To name a few Christian MYSTICS:

St. Francis, St. John of The Cross, Theresa of Avilla, Joan of Arc and 20th century Thomas Merton”

*****If they didn’t accept Jesus as their savior, they have no chance. 

“A mystic is satanic and along lines of the occult.
Its the invitation and action of the God of light, or Lucifer.”

Good and Evil cut through EVERY human heart-there is NO devil ‘out there’- as John Lennon said:“We are all Christ and Hitler.”

******  He is mislead, and under the direction of a higher power.  Here is the truth….

Makow - Bankers Are
Behind The Counter Culture
The Aquarian Conspiracy
By Henry Makow PhD
5-8-5
http://www.rense.com/general65/aq.htm

“You should read Father Keating’s writing on Centering Prayer especially regarding detachment from concepts of God- for God is beyond concepts!”

*****No he isn’t, God has outlined his salvation in the Bible.  its actually simple.

I do agree with you:

“We have to clean our own house before we even attempt to debate an atheist.”

YOU become a follower of Jesus by DOING what he said-and he said his sisters and brothers were those that DID the will of the father:

*******Then you had better start by reading the Bible and doing just that.  What you are writing is not in the Bible nor in the words of Jesus.

“What does God require? He has told you o’man! Be just, be merciful, and walk humbly with your Lord.” -Micah 6:8

JC warned that on the Day of Judgment, “Many will say, we called you lord, lord; but I never KNEW YOU!”

*******Exactly….then one must adhere to Romans 10:9, and repent of sins. 

*****No flipping out, the only word of God is in the King James Version, and there is no other.  the new age movement is nazism in another term.  There is not 1, 2, 3 , 4, 5th or whatever soul. Its only those that accept or reject Jesus as savior, that simple.

WAKE UP tgambill,

Time to EVOLVE from the Stage 2 soul that you are.

When JC said “You must be born again to enter the kingdom of God”

He was talking about a TRANSFORMATION of heart and mind to see The Divine in ALL people!

You claim:

“Mystics are New Age Dogma and in effect a counterfeit Christianity.”

THANKS for the best laugh I have had this year!

To name a few Christian MYSTICS:

St. Francis, St. John of The Cross, Theresa of Avilla, Joan of Arc and 20th century Thomas Merton

You claim:

“A mystic is satanic and along lines of the occult.
Its the invitation and action of the God of light, or Lucifer.”

Good and Evil cut through EVERY human heart-there is NO devil ‘out there’- as John Lennon said:“We are all Christ and Hitler.”

You should read Father Keating’s writing on Centering Prayer especially regarding detachment from concepts of God- for God is beyond concepts!

I do agree with you:

“We have to clean our own house before we even attempt to debate an atheist.”

YOU become a follower of Jesus by DOING what he said-and he said his sisters and brothers were those that DID the will of the father:

“What does God require? He has told you o’man! Be just, be merciful, and walk humbly with your Lord.” -Micah 6:8

JC warned that on the Day of Judgment, “Many will say, we called you lord, lord; but I never KNEW YOU!”

JC warned that there will be lots of wailing and gnashing of teeth from those who were so sure they were in-because they get LEFT OUT!

“Where there is no vision, the people perish.”-Proverbs 29:18

This following VISION will probably flip you out, but i trust there are many open minds and hearts who will also read this thread:

The New Body of Christ: 5th in A Greater Awakening Series

http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=827&Itemid=195

“A stage three soul may well reject Christ as God, but often agree with the philosophy of Jesus, which Thomas Jefferson laid out when he weeded out the miracle stories from the gospels and clarified the teachings and ethics of Christ in: THE LIFE AND MORALS of JESUS of NAZARETH”

*******A stage three or four or whatever stage is, won’t reject Jesus Christ as God and agree with Him at the same time since Jesus was God incarnate.  I’m not sure where you get this New Age Movement dogma but its not the truth. 

“It has been said we are all called to be mystics in the market place and a stage four, such as Thomas Merton and Rumi give voice to that experience of the curtain being lifted and seeing through the glass a bit less darkly.”

*****Mystics are New Age Dogma and in effect a counterfeit Christianity.

“A mystic can best be understood as one who is in love with the divine mystery and is viscerally connected to the unity of all creation. Mystics are not navel gazers, they feel the pain of the world within their hearts and grieve at what humans do to the other when they have no clue that The Divine is within the other as much as within themselves.”

******A mystic is satanic and along lines of the occult. 
“Mystics have detached from their concepts of God-not by their own efforts, but by the invitation and action of God upon a willing and simple soul in love with Pure Being, AKA: God for lack of a better word.”

******NOT EVEN TRUE.  Its the invitation and action of the God of light, or Lucifer. 

“The mystic fool, Saint Francis, the leper kisser of Assisi, was so head over heels in love with God in everyone and all of creation that most people of his time considered him crazed, or at least, extremely eccentric. One needn’t be a mystic or move beyond stage two on the spiritual journey to do what is good and right just because it is good and right.
On that foundation alone people of faith, atheists and agnostics can surely find something to agree upon. “

******Doing good and right won’t get you to Heaven.  Good deeds are as filthy rags in the eyes of God.  First one must accept Jesus Christ as savior then the good deeds should follow. 

We have to clean our own house before we even attempt to debate an atheist.  You have pastors, ministers, preachers, Priests, Popes’ who are not teaching the truth.  They believe in Evolution, ETs and UFO’s, false doctine, in a Christ but not Jesus….new Age lies.

A few of those that are now teaching or stating false doctrine is Billy Graham, Osteen, Robert Shueller, Hagee, Hagin, Paisley, Benny Hinn, TD Jakes, and many Catholic clergy.  No wonder you atheist are atheist, how can they believe in Jesus Christ when followers of the word have no clue or are deviously working with the Illuminati agenda.

These segments of video’s and comments are related to the MKULTRA programs and its link to the New World Order.  In addition to the brainwashing a certain profile to become an insophiscated assassin.  They also train nihilists to be professional assassins to make the murders of congressman, journalist, illuminati converts, presidents, rock stars and icons who change their minds, et al….....look like accidents, suicides and natural deaths.  [reference, “Red Fog Over America” by William Carr]

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1478544/mk_ultra_cia_mind_control_brain_washing_to_make_assassins/

Fromm, Hinkley, Columbine massacre,  http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/virginiatech.shootings/

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/1996/04/30/1996-04-30_aftermath_of_horror__death_t.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shootings

Rock and Roll influence since 1960’s by an Illuminati convert.   

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8102723686161066292

“Jesus said he came that we would have life to the full; abundant life [John 10:10] and that takes deep thought, wrestling with The Divine and then taking action.”

*****Jesus came to take our sins away. 
“What got Jesus crucified was disturbing the status quo of the Roman Occupying Forces of his time, by teaching the subversive concept that Caesar only had power because God allowed it and that God preferred the humble sinner, the poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under Roman Occupation above the elite and arrogant.”

*****NO, he ws crucified because he claimed to be God.  John 10:28-33 NIV) I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, but Jesus said to them, “I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?” “We are not stoning you for any of these,” replied the Jews, “but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God.” There was no doubt in the Jews mind that Jesus was claiming to be God.(Matthew 26:63-66 NRSV) But Jesus was silent. Then the high priest said to him, “I put you under oath before the living God, tell us if you are the Messiah, the Son of God.” {64} Jesus said to him, “You have said so. But I tell you, From now on you will see the Son of Man seated at the right hand of Power and coming on the clouds of heaven.” {65} Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, “He has blasphemed! Why do we still need witnesses? You have now heard his blasphemy. {66} What is your verdict?” They answered, “He deserves death.”
Exo 3:14 NIV) God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’” Now look at what Jesus said(John 8:58 NIV) “I tell you the truth,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
(1 John 4:2 NIV) This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God
“We are not just body and mind, we are also spirit; a trinity in one flesh that will decay and whither away. When any part of the human trinity is out of balance, so will ones life be. Life is a journey and the best trip one can embark upon, is by going within and wrestling with The Divine; and thus become Israel on the way.’

******?? come again.  No, you accept Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior and he will confess your prayers to the Father who is God.  You don’t wrestle with the divine you, wrestle with Satan and his demons.  By resisting Satan you become a Jesus followers on the way.

A stage three soul may well reject Christ as God, but often agree with the philosophy of Jesus, which Thomas Jefferson laid out when he weeded out the miracle stories from the gospels and clarified the teachings and ethics of Christ in: THE LIFE AND MORALS of JESUS of NAZARETH

1. Be just: justice comes from virtue which comes from the heart.
2. Treat people the way we want to be treated.
3. Always work for PEACEFUL resolutions, even to the point of returning violence with COMPASSION.
4. Consider valuable the things that have no material value.
5. Do not judge others.
6. Do not bear grudges.
7. Be modest and unpretentious.
8. Give out of true generosity, not because we expect to be repaid.
9. Being true to one’s self in more important than being loyal to one’s family…those who think they know the most are the most ignorant…

A stage three soul will see that a neighbor is everyone on the planet and not just those who think and look the same and are born in the same geographical location.

Stage three’s are seekers, doubters, skeptics, atheists, agnostics and frequently adults who grew up disenchanted with institutionalized religion. Their inherent intellectual curiosity leads them to seek their own way towards the Mystery of the Divine through philosophy and the study of multiple faith paths choosing and discarding according to their “inner light.”

Stage three souls often become activists for social justice and reform and the increasing wave of humanitarian secularism verses the bondage of religious dogma just may be the way to change the world as we now know it.

It has been said we are all called to be mystics in the market place and a stage four, such as Thomas Merton and Rumi give voice to that experience of the curtain being lifted and seeing through the glass a bit less darkly.

A mystic can best be understood as one who is in love with the divine mystery and is viscerally connected to the unity of all creation. Mystics are not navel gazers, they feel the pain of the world within their hearts and grieve at what humans do to the other when they have no clue that The Divine is within the other as much as within themselves.

Mystics have detached from their concepts of God-not by their own efforts, but by the invitation and action of God upon a willing and simple soul in love with Pure Being, AKA: God for lack of a better word.

The mystic fool, Saint Francis, the leper kisser of Assisi, was so head over heels in love with God in everyone and all of creation that most people of his time considered him crazed, or at least, extremely eccentric. One needn’t be a mystic or move beyond stage two on the spiritual journey to do what is good and right just because it is good and right.
On that foundation alone people of faith, atheists and agnostics can surely find something to agree upon.

Or would only a mystic see that?

Eileen Fleming, Founder WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
Author “Keep Hope Alive”
“Memoirs of a Nice Irish American ‘Girl’s’ Life in Occupied Territory”
Producer “30 Minutes With Vanunu” and “13 Minutes with Vanunu”

Hail y’all.  Maybe this will be the year for the big Return?  Dang, I hope so.  This is getting kind of old, isn’t it?  Those who live by the bible will die by the bible.  What does it matter what the bible says?  It’s full of contradictory gibberish anyway.  One cannot bow one’s knee.  One could bend it though.  And if that is how you wish to spend your life, that is your prerogative.  Seems better that a human life be spent standing up, sitting, or laying down.  Bending is hard on the back.  And exactly how will tongues be made to move in speech?  What ever happened to that “gentle” god?  Isn’t that part of the myth. 

FYI:  tgambill is incomparable in articulating that genuflecting position.  The rest of you ought to read his posts.  He has said it all best.  You could learn something.  I, one of the resident atheists/agnostics rather enjoy his litany.  This is not to say there isn’t good advice in the book.  Just that to use it as a travelguide for life is infantile.  Get a grip.  Stand up, or sit down, or take a nappy.  By the way, what do you use to measure truth?

“All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident.”-Arthur Schopenhauer

Two thousand years ago, there was lively debate about who Jesus was, and why he came. Churches before Emperor Constantine legitimized Christianity were hot beds of individuality and not the institutions that have become big business today.

Jesus said he came that we would have life to the full; abundant life [John 10:10] and that takes deep thought, wrestling with The Divine and then taking action.

“To think deeply in our culture is to grow angry and to anger others; and if you cannot tolerate this anger, you are wasting the time you spend thinking deeply. One of the rewards to deep thought is the hot glow of anger at discovering a wrong, but if anger is taboo, thought will starve to death.”-Jules Henry

The first mention of Israel in the Bible is in Genesis 32, when Jacob wrestled, struggled and then clung to the Divine being and was then renamed Israel.

Jesus also was never a Christian; in fact the term ‘Christian’ was not even coined until the days of Paul, about 3 decades after Jesus walked the earth as a man. Jesus was a social justice, radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish road warrior who rose up and challenged the job security of the Temple authorities by teaching the people they did NOT need to pay the priests for ritual baths or sacrificing livestock to be OK with God; for God already LOVED them just as they were: sinners, poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under Roman Military Occupation.

What got Jesus crucified was disturbing the status quo of the Roman Occupying Forces of his time, by teaching the subversive concept that Caesar only had power because God allowed it and that God preferred the humble sinner, the poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under Roman Occupation above the elite and arrogant.

The early followers and lovers of Jesus were called members of THE WAY-being THE WAY he taught one should be; Nonviolent, a Peacemaker and one who did the will of the Father. “What does God require? He has told you o’man! Be just, be merciful, and walk humbly with your Lord.” -Micah 6:8

We are not just body and mind, we are also spirit; a trinity in one flesh that will decay and whither away. When any part of the human trinity is out of balance, so will ones life be. Life is a journey and the best trip one can embark upon, is by going within and wrestling with The Divine; and thus become Israel on the way.

“I said, you are gods: you are all children of the Most High God.”-Psalm 82:6

Jesus said, “You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.” -John 8:32

The rest:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=825&Itemid=195

Jeffersonman and Christian 96 welcome…I’ve been holding down this fort for a long time.  I’ve even developed a “sibling’ relationship with the atheist on here and even though we disagree on all points except a few concerning the New World order, we are “family”?  )  Both of you are correct and that day is coming soon, very very soon as the politics and economy and New Age Movement take hold.

Its says in the Bible that men who knew about God, would not glorify him as God, and that they would become VAIN in their imaginations, and thief FOOLISH hearts would be darkened. It says in Romans 1 verse 23 “PROFESSING THEMSELVES TO BE WISE, THEY BECAME FOOLS!!”
This all that the author of this trash did. Jesus is LORD. And one day EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE CONFESS THAT JESUS CHRIST IS LORD TO THE GLORY OF GOD THE FATHER.

After reading this article, I am convinced that
Rev.(questionable) Shockley is an example of what
Jesus referred to as a “false teacher.”  In Matthew
24, his disciples came to Jesus asking for the signs
preceeding his 2nd coming.  Jesus responded in verse
4, “take heed that no man deceive you.  For many shall come in my name(calling themselves Christian)
and shall deceive many. So not to take too much space, I will use one example to prove Rev Shockly
is a false teacher. He says that Jesus was
probably born in Nazareth.  Matthew 2:1 reads, “Now
when Jesus was born in BETHLEHEM.”  There are many
other false teachings in this article but because of space I only mention the previous one.  The words in the Bible are not myth.  2nd Timothy 3:16 reads, “All scripture is given by inspiration of God.”  Since he calls himself “Reverend”, Mr. Shockley should be aware of Revelation 22:18,19 “If
any man shall add unto these things, God shall add
unto him the plagues that are written in this book.
And if any man shall take away from the words of this book, God shall take away his part out of the
book of life.”  Beware of your words Rev. Shockley.
You shall be judged by them at the great white throne judgment.

Eileen, as I told you before, about Annie, Shenonymous and one other one, are over the top and know the basics a long time ago.  The are well read, and researchers that do this for a living, I’ll bet.  They know Christianity and about the Bible much better than you by leaps and bounds.  They will have you for lunch if you spout off non-Biblical principles.  You will not win.

“Provide evidence and all us nonbelievers will believe I can assure you, although most of us who are atheists in the f’sure are not looking for any assurance nor authentication.”

*****A statement that is doomed to failure before it even began.  The evidence is coming and in a way that won’t be forgotten.

My Dear Eileen, you are a deceiver and distort the truth.  Most all of what you wrote would take hours to correct.  Its a post that is full of misleading statements, wrong assumptions and lies.  Sorry but this tactic won’t work when people know the truth they will see right through you.  As I said before, at least the Atheist are true to their belief as you will be judged by God much more harsher per the scriptures than they will.

No, Annie, God is in total control.  The next incident will bring a harvest of souls that will stagger the mind and will separate the wheat from the shaff…

Context.  Context – let’s take this definition: the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation or the set of facts or circumstances that surround a situation or event; “the historical context.”  That appears to be the intention of talking about context.

Now with respect to the bible, which is a collection of fables, myths, legends, hearsay stories all whose authorships are unproven and their “ancientnicities” (ages) are unverifiable.  Context is unachievable.  It is not possible to put one’s mind back 1965 or so years ago (it’s my guess that the cult of Jesus did not begin prior to his alleged life and death).  Now again, there is no evidence of an extant supernatural god or deity or deities that either created the universe, you or me.  Provide evidence and all us nonbelievers will believe I can assure you, although most of us who are atheists in the f’sure are not looking for any assurance nor authentication.  The bible does not make any sense whether it is “taken” in context or not.  No reason to assign a gender to a god since a god does not reproduce, that is, does not have sex for the purpose of procreation (by the way if god does have sex, there would have to be a female equal to the male, meaning two such beings, and god is asexual like a snail, therefore neither male nor female.  If there is such a thing as a god, it would create by some weird arcane means things out of thin air.  I would say hot air, and maybe even a hot air baloon since it would be a baloon head.

Yeah, we already said Jesus, if there was such a cat, wasn’t Christian.  If anything he was a Jew and a rabbi at that.  eileen you might read the other posts so you aren’t recovering ground already covered. 

You assume neither Annie nor tgambill nor I don’t know the history of the alleged Christ? Your brand is personal opinion, sentimental trivial drivel with no proof or evidence offered as is usual with newager sloganism on its usual religico soapbox.

Now where did I put that fork and knife?

Where do you get this?: “The early followers and lovers of Jesus were called members of THE WAY-being THE WAY he taught one should be: NONVIOLENT and one who loves and forgives.”

JC was far more violent than you or I ever will be!  He took a cat-o-nine tails and BEAT innocent livestock with it because their owners were marketing outside of what?  A fucking TEMPLE.  “How dare you turn my Father’s house into a den of thieves”!!

Jesus didn’t even have the humanity to take interest in innocent animals.  Let’s not forget that he slammed Lucy-fers helpers into a herd of swine driving them to their deaths off of a cliff.

And sure, he asked you and I to forgive OUR persecutors.  But what did he do when his came just to question him?  He called them names. “Brood of vipers!  Empty suplechers full of dead men’s bones! Hipocrites!” —Not once did HE get down and pray for them.  Oh thats right!  He waited until LATER to die for them.  Well, that’s what I am going to do.  I am going to wait for later to forgive my enemies.  Think he can deal with that?  Doubtful since he said to “turn the other cheek”.  He was all for slavery.  Why? Because the writers who made him up didn’t know any other way and it seemed viable to them that their god would think the way they do.  Every author puts a bit of their own selves to paper when writing.

If Jesus existed today, he would be SHOT and burned.  He was an asshole!!!  Like I said, good thing he is imaginary.

Dear People,

The Bible makes NO sense unless it is taken in CONTEXT.

The Bible contains a collection of ANCIENT stories written down by the imperfect people of that time.

God is a God of the living, and SHE has never quit talking to any open heart and mind!

Jesus was NEVER a Christian!

The term ‘Christian’ was not even coined until the days of Paul, about 3 decades after Jesus:

AKA: The Prince of Peace- promised it is the peacemakers who are the children of God, NOT those that bomb, occupy or torture other ones!

JC said his mother, sister, brother were those who did the will of the Father:

“What does God require? He has told you o’man! Be just, be merciful, and walk humbly with your Lord.” -Micah 6:8

2,000 years ago The Cross had NO symbolic religious meaning and was not a piece of jewelry.

When JC said: “Pick up your cross and follow me” everyone THEN understood he was issuing a POLITICAL statement, for the main roads into Jerusalem were lined with crucified agitators, rebels, dissidents and any who disturbed the status quo of the Roman Empire and Military Occupying Forces.

Jesus, while never a Christian, was a social, justice, radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish road warrior who rose up against the corrupt Temple authorities and challenged their job security by teaching the people they did NOT need to pay the priests for ritual baths or sacrificing livestock to be OK with God; for God LOVED them just as they were:

Sinners, poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under the Roman Empire and Military Occupation.

What got JC crucified was disturbing the status quo of the Roman Empire and Occupying Forces by teaching the subversive concept that God preferred the humble sinner, the poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under the Roman Empire and Military Occupation above the elite and arrogant.

The early followers and lovers of Jesus were called members of THE WAY-being THE WAY he taught one should be: NONVIOLENT and one who loves and forgives.

Even St. Paul admitted it was none of his business to judge the nonbeliever-that is God’s business-what Christians are called to do is PROVOKE the believers onto good works.

It is way past time to liberate JC from the institutions and wake up to reality that NO religion owns The Divine.

The Ultimate Mystery of the Universe is beyond concepts and it is the concepts that need to evolve.

“The struggle is in the mind. We must bury our own monsters and stop condemning people. We are all Christ and Hitler…....Christ, you know it ain’t easy, You know how hard it can be. The way things are going; They’re gonna crucify me-”-John Lennon

The Stages of the Soul and How Religiosity/Fundamentalism is holding up Evolution
http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=825&Itemid=195

tick tock, Jesus.  Tick, tock.

You see, if the story were true, Tom, the longer Jesus waits, the less people he wins = the less people he took those stripes for.  So…

Tick, tock, Jesus.  Tick tock.

27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?
46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.
47Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods.
48But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
49And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
50The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
51And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Asking me if I believe in God would be equal to asking you if you believe you have had parents.  )  We can go on and on, I stand by all that I have written.  The Bible is a book of prophesy and it is more up to date that tomorrow’s newspapers. 

Matthew 24 (King James Version)
Matthew 24
1And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
2And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
3And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
4And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
6And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
8All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name’s sake.
10And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.
11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
14And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
15When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
16Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:
17Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:
18Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.
19And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!
20But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:
21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
23Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25Behold, I have told you before.
26Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.

Of course you can’t order an inanimate object to kill, Tom, that’s why I said “when someone pulls the trigger”.  If people put as much love into life as they do destruction, we would all be better off.  But of course, the destructive devices we use as people are mainly used in the name of imaginary gods.

Nope, I couldn’t kill Jesus if I bought into the “Jesus Zombie” theory, but I don’t.  So, if any thing comes and I need to buckle up as you stated, then I would kill that person; just as someone should have killed Hitler.  We all judge Hitler harshly, but what is he as a murderer in comparison to your written god?  Small time thug.

You hassled Shenonymous about playing god when you are his self-proclaimed messenger and you’ve never even met, nor seen the guy?  Hell, for that matter, you don’t even know if he exists, but you speak for him as if he lives next door and is your son or daughter.  Delusions of grandeur run so deep in religions.  “I am god’s messenger”.  “I am Allah’s prophet”...I am David Koresh, yada yada yada.  All claim to be true, but we know they can’t all be true but they can all be false.  Since the Abrahamic faiths are all just sequels from the Tanakh, I submit to you that they’re all three just a trilogy of terror.  Homicide, genocide, matricide, destruction of whole cities and groups of people.  This is war.  Not peace and “God is love”  This is an atrocious bunch of crap that was meant for the people of the day to explain their existence, and their need to control and be “one-up” from everyone else.  Sad, sad, sad.

China is mostly Taoist and Christian.

It would be odd if it were true.  However, the “book” is a gift from him to us. Exodus 32:30-34… And just when and where will that book be gifted to “us.”  Any clues?  and Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written… Now in exactly what language did god write that book?  Looks like Moses made that up, as one of those old dramatic Jews would do.  He obviously felt guilty and thought he could assuage that guilt as if there were a book and his name could be blotted out.  Obviously if this is a “real” book, it is pretty old, since he is talking to the people of the Psalms (Pslams 69:21-28).  So that was quite a long time ago.  I know divine time might be different than earthpeople time, but to be meaningful to earthpeople, the relevance of “the book” ought to be according to earthpeople time.  Meaning people ought to be able to see the bloody book.  We see how “the book” transformed, neat dramatic trick again, to a book of the living, and with a second name as well, the book of life.  Any relation to the tree of life in the garden?  Now David is speaking for god too, so why can’t I?

You think there are hierarchies of humans, some are better than others, like I don’t count as much as David?  Bull shit.  Pox on you.  (Isn’t that a good old biblical curse?  There were a lot of those.  Cursing is a fun thing to do when you don’t have magazines, television, radio, Internet.)  Uh, who is speaking in the Philippians? Now in Revelation Jesus is blotting names in a book, hmmmm, isn’t Jesus ‘sposed to be god? Is that a real book? Why does god need a book?  Now he is going to blot out somebody’s name, but confess his name anyway before the fathergod, and the angels?  What the hell for before the angels?  What the f are they doing in this business of the book?  This is way too melodramatic, a real passion play.  Now what the hell could it mean “that the names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the earth?”  Who is pulling whose leg of lamb here?

Continuing with your next post:  Who “saw the dead, small and great…”  And the books were opened?  What books, again?  I thought it was “a” book.  Now we have a whole library!  Whoa.  This thing keeps changing.  Who is doing the writing now?  You just gotta be kiddin’!  So they count in years in heaven.  What is so magical about the number 1000?  This is off-Broadway f’sure.

Now I told you, I don’t go fer dat fear thang.  Can’t scare me to heaven!  Don’t like no shakedowns.  Youse jes be a con man, right? 

Okay, there is no evidence that Moses wrote anything!  Do read your Hebrew history.  If you are going to reference the Pentateuch, do the real history, not your made up stuff.  Shall I provide your references?  I have archeological studies as well, reliable Hebrew sources, who ought to be a bit closer to the truth of the content of the Bible since the books are Hebrew!  Christians are noted for changing history.  Or are you saying they are lying?  God’s chosen people are lying?

Now how do you get it that I am playing god?  Either you are mad or your logic is nonexistent.  By saying god doesn’t need something says that god is self-sufficient, that is not ‘playing god’, it is just, really merely, reciting the definition of god, that god is self-sufficient and is in need of nothing.  Unless you want to play god and say god does need something.  Pray tell us what that is, my deah? Do you think you are some sort of a prophet who knows the mind of god?  Oh boy.

“It is odd that god would need a book.”

******It would be odd if it were true.  However, the “book” is a gift from him to us.  We are the ones that needs the book because as renters we would be making our own agreements, and some would write in live for free and that would not be allowed.  Others would fake renters agreements and ownership and then rent it out.

“Being omniscient, a god remembers and forsees everything past present and future.  No need for a “book.”

*****he is Omniscient, we aren’t.  Some of us can’t even see our noses.  Plenty need for a book.

“It is a dramatic device written by whoever wrote Exodus (unknown by the way, please check Hebrew history).”

******Scripture has attributed the authorship with the other four books, of the Pentateuch to Moses.  Archaeological discoveries have confirmed the historicity of hte events.  The dates are set as early as 1580 BC and as late as 1230 BC.  Come on get it right…....you can’t fight truth.  It will always come out on top. 

“That is the thing about that whole book where things by god have to be writ and remembered.  Why not did god say, “I know at once all those who violate and who have violated and who will violate my laws, and those who have conformed, who conform, and who will conform”?”

*****Well, when you are a god you can answer the questions and tell God what to do and how things should be.  Since man is doing so good so far…lol…

“God does not need a book for the dead nor for the living.”

******There you go, playing God again.  nanananan.  When you create your first universe then maybe you can play with the big boys. 

“Nor does god need to remember.”

******So,. now you are recreating God the creator….wow..powerful. 

“If god is a god, then god knows.”

*****no, if God is a god you would be a god and would know better….yes???

“It is a simple infinite present tense of the verb “know.” Also, do not forget the best actors, musicians, artists, fine and financial, etc., in the world have been and are Jews.”

*******You are joking, right??  lol   John Wayne was a gew?  )))  lol…how about Clinton Eastwood?  I never knew that.

“Also the most persecuted so they had to be better than everybody else.  And they are.”

******oh stop, you are killing me…..lolol…

“Now just as a FYI, I am not Jewish by heritage in the least so I have no hidden agenda.”

****SO, if you are not Gewish, then your married name is Kissmeberger or goldstein…..

“There is no reason to believe what you say is true over what any other religion or atheist says.’

******That is fine, its not my over concern, as I’m just the messenger.   

“For if there is a god and if I have a mind then that mind was created by god to be the way it is and if this mind is skeptical of what anyone says about that god then that god put that skepticism in my mind.”

*****Uh, that is called FREE WILL, good.  Now we are getting somewhere. 

“Any argument against that conclusion would be an argument against the power of god.  And if there is a god, I would not want to compare a human’s power with that divine power.”

******Free will…...my dear, free will

It is odd that god would need a book.  Quite unbelievable, actually.  Being omniscient, a god remembers and forsees everything past present and future.  No need for a “book.”  It is a dramatic device written by whoever wrote Exodus (unknown by the way, please check Hebrew history).  That is the thing about that whole book where things by god have to be writ and remembered.  Why not did god say, “I know at once all those who violate and who have violated and who will violate my laws, and those who have conformed, who conform, and who will conform”?  God does not need a book for the dead nor for the living.  Nor does god need to remember.  If god is a god, then god knows. It is a simple infinite present tense of the verb “know.”  Also, do not forget the best actors, musicians, artists, fine and financial, etc., in the world have been and are Jews.  Also the most persecuted so they had to be better than everybody else.  And they are.  Now just as a FYI, I am not Jewish by heritage in the least so I have no hidden agenda.  Just facing the secular reality of things.  The OT is the book of Abraham, not the NT, nor the Qur’an. 

The fearful things that are burst onto the world by melodramatic Christian indoctrinations represents one of the main reasons for my atheism.  None of what you say tgambill, and especially the fanatical deluded fantasist eileen has any weight when measured against any other religion.  There is no reason to believe what you say is true over what any other religion or atheist says. 

For if there is a god and if I have a mind then that mind was created by god to be the way it is and if this mind is skeptical of what anyone says about that god then that god put that skepticism in my mind.  Any argument against that conclusion would be an argument against the power of god.  And if there is a god, I would not want to compare a human’s power with that divine power.

“Are we the renters or the creation?”

*****We are part of the total creation.  We as humans are renters. 

“Suffice it to say that many children turn on their parents.  Just like “Jesus” said through men who were telling a tale.  Hearsay is a dangerous thing to buy into.  MSNBC could probably tell a better tale.”

******No, MSNBC lies anyway, and certianly couldn’t tell a better tale.
 
“At any rate, I would kill Jesus with the first bullet…no problem.”

*****If he was dead for three days and rose again, he won’t die again.  So, you say with a bullet you can kill the creator of the Universe?  Sad, Annie. 

“Guns DO kill people when people are pulling the trigger.”

*****No, the people pulls the trigger.  Put a gun on the ground and order it to kill.  I would bet that without human intervention the gun would just lay there…..

“Religion does kill people when fantatics are pulling the rings on the grenades, friend.”

******No, the fanatics are pulling the rings based on false teachings. 

“And the only fanatics that I am aware of at this time, are religious.  History does have a habit of repeating itself when emotionally retarded tenants fight for their landlords who they’ve never met, seen nor even heard, but only read about.”

*******Chinese have killed a few people…in their history.  Only a few, and If I’m not mistaken they are a nation of Atheist.

Revelation 20:12 is the next scripture in which the book of life is mentioned. “And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.” According to the previous verse (20:11), this is called the great white throne judgment. Those who enter the Kingdom, the overcomers, will rule and reign with Jesus during the 1000 years. Those who did not enter the Kingdom will spend the 1000 years in outer darkness and, along with those born during the reign of Jesus, will have their works judged at the great white throne judgment (see Revelation 12:4-5).

To name a few references…......

“When is this coming back ‘sposed to happen?  Will MSNBC be there?”

******it won’t be missed…to say the least. 

“Now you know they won’t report it right don’t you?!  Will it be on DirectTV?  Will there be satellite coverage?  Will the new agers be able to make a big buck on it?”

******Luke 21:26 (King James Version)
26. Men’s hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

2 months ago
Source(s):
Luke 21: 25& 26
Luke 21:25 (King James Version)
25. And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

And there shall be signs in the sun and in the moon and in the stars, and upon the earth distress of nations with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring; men’s hearts failng them for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. They see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. (St. Luke 21: 25-27)

“Hey, I just want to know how big a media event this is going to be.”

********it won’t be missed no matter where you are.

What book of life?  WHAT BOOK OF LIFE?! 

It is found in Exodus 32:30-34. “And it came to pass on the morrow, that Moses said unto the people, Ye have sinned a great sin: and now I will go up unto the Lord; peradventure I shall make an atonement for your sin. And Moses returned unto the Lord, and said, Oh, this people have sinned a great sin, and have made them gods of gold. Yet now, if thou wilt forgive their sin—; and if not, blot me, I pray thee, out of thy book which thou hast written. And the Lord said unto Moses, Whosoever hath sinned against me, him will I blot out of my book. Therefore now go, lead the people unto the place of which I have spoken unto thee: behold, mine Angel shall go before thee: nevertheless in the day when I visit I will visit their sin upon them.” [Note: All verses quoted are from the KJV.]

Psalms 69:21-28: “They gave me also gall for my meat; and in my thirst they gave me vinegar to drink. Let their table become a snare before them: and that which should have been for their welfare, let it become a trap. Let their eyes be darkened, that they see not; and make their loins continually to shake. Pour out thine indignation upon them, and let thy wrathful anger take hold of them. Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents. For they persecute him whom thou hast smitten; and they talk to the grief of those whom thou hast wounded. Add iniquity unto their iniquity: and let them not come into thy righteousness. Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.”

In this scripture, a new element was added. The book has now become the book of the living, or the book of life. David said that those whose names are blotted out will not “come into thy righteousness” which was his way of saying they would not enter the Messianic Kingdom, or the thousand year reign

Philippians 4:3. “And I entreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and with other my fellowlabourers, whose names are in the book of life.”

Revelation 3:5, where Jesus said, “He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.”

Revelation 13:8 says, “whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.” Revelation 17:8 says, “whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world.” These verses indicate that the names were written in the book of life from the foundation of the earth

“Please cite the evidence of the 400 witnesses of a resurrection.”

*******The apostles were not the only ones who saw the risen Jesus. The first one that saw Jesus was Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James.  (Mark 16). Paul lists several witnesses in 1 Corinthians 15:3-8. Among Jesus’ disciples, there were 500 other witnesses. And the Jewish Law of Moses required at least two or three witnesses (Deuteronomy 17:6).

There were many eyewitness accounts of His death, resurrection, and ascension.  Those that lived from then and now 2000 years later are operating in faith.  You ask yourself how does one acquire faith and Romans 10:17 comes to mind which says, “Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.” Read the word, the accounts of His arrival, His resurrection, and His coming return.
The only legitimate dispute is whether Jesus was the Son of God who was resurrected from the dead after His crucifixion.

The resurrection of Jesus can be examined by using evidentiary grounds. This can be examined and judged like any other type of historical event. We can use basic rules applied to evidence, and eyewitness accounts.  These have not been refuted throughout the test of time.  In 1 Corinthians 15:3-6, Paul established the following:

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that He was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, He was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.”

Resurrection of Jesus: More Eye-witness Accounts
The resurrection of Jesus was also declared in numerous other accounts, including the appearance of Jesus to Mary Magdalene (John 20:10-18), to other women (Matthew 28:8-10), to Cleopas and his companion (Luke 24:13-32), to eleven disciples and others (Luke 24:33-49), to ten apostles and others (excluding Thomas) (John 20:19-23), to the apostles (including Thomas) (John 20:26-30), to seven apostles (John 21:1-14), to the disciples (Matthew 28:16-20), and to the apostles on the Mount of Olives (Luke 24:50-52 and Acts 1:4-9).

The test of credibility for these eye-witnesses was that many of them faced martyrdom for their eye-witness testimony. This is dramatic! These witnesses knew the truth.  So as I said, what could they possibly gain by dying for a known lie? The evidence speaks for itself, these weren’t just religious faithful dying for a religious belief, these were followers of Jesus Christ dying for a historical event – His resurrection that established Him as the Son of God.

“Wasn’t Judas allegedly Jesus’ most beloved?”

*******yes, this is part of the story. 

“If as you say, tgambill, Jesus answered, “The most important is: ‘Listen, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’

Then the Jews are only following what your guru says (actually Jesus, if he existed at all, was a rabbi, and he was ordering his people to do what his scripture commandments were saying.  These are Jewish commandments not Christian although the Christians rather usurped them, commandeering them as their own in a very odd way).”

*****No, these commandments were for all human kind.   

“Try finding that z particle tgambill.  That will get your new universe started.”

*****Won’t happen….but I did find the ticket to an eternal life…..Jesus Christ.

HAHA Shenonymous…haha

Tom: “The decision is already made. The moral laws have been set not by “renters” which we are, but my the creator that made us.”

So which is it?  Are we the renters or the creation?  Suffice it to say that many children turn on their parents.  Just like “Jesus” said through men who were telling a tale.  Hearsay is a dangerous thing to buy into.  MSNBC could probably tell a better tale.

At any rate, I would kill Jesus with the first bullet…no problem.

Guns DO kill people when people are pulling the trigger.  Religion does kill people when fantatics are pulling the rings on the grenades, friend.  And the only fanatics that I am aware of at this time, are religious.  History does have a habit of repeating itself when emotionally retarded tenants fight for their landlords who they’ve never met, seen nor even heard, but only read about.

all eyes will see him and they will be judged according to the book of life  Are these alive eyes or dead eyes?  What book of life?  WHAT BOOK OF LIFE?!  Where did that one come from?  I never heard about that one.  Can it be seen at Barnes and Noble?  Can we have a sneak preview?  When is this coming back ‘sposed to happen?  Will MSNBC be there?  Now you know they won’t report it right don’t you?!  Will it be on DirectTV?  Will there be satellite coverage?  Will the new agers be able to make a big buck on it? 

Hey, I just want to know how big a media event this is going to be.

“BUT, religion is THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE of violence, arguing and intolerance in the world today.”

******Guns don’t kill people.  People kill people.  Religion doesn’t kill People….People kill people. 

“And even if Jesus DID come back (hardy har) he would have many of US to contend with.”

******He won’t have anyone contend with.  The decision is already made. The moral laws have been set not by “renters” which we are, but my the creator that made us.  We don’t set the rules and decide what is moral and what is not.  A four dimensional being, limited by physical birth and physical death, and the spirit is set to go one or two places, Heaven or Hell.  Man cannot create and man cannot even destroy.  He can only change the appearance of what is already created. 

“Maybe it would be HIM that would need to do the “buckling up”.  Yea.  I think so.  Good thing he’s imaginary.”

*****Jesus is in fact coming back and all eyes will see him and they will be judged according to the book of life…...there is nothing man can do about it except be repentent and accountable…

johnm Neither assumption is supported by the evidence  What evidence? Don’t you mean both assumptions are not supported by any evidence?  The way you put it implies there is at least some evidence.

Please cite the evidence of the 400 witnesses of a resurrection.  Wasn’t Judas allegedly Jesus’ most beloved? 

If as you say, tgambill, Jesus answered, “The most important is: ‘Listen, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’
Then the Jews are only following what your guru says (actually Jesus, if he existed at all, was a rabbi, and he was ordering his people to do what his scripture commandments were saying.  These are Jewish commandments not Christian although the Christians rather usurped them, commandeering them as their own in a very odd way). 

Try finding that z particle tgambill.  That will get your new universe started.

Eileen, that link you sent had the name of Jesus only one time.  Jesus existed in the Old Testament as Spirit and then God came into the Earth As Jesus.  Three things that are keys to Heaven.  One, Believe in God, Accept Jesus, and don’t believe in anything else…..no other gods before him. 

“Jesus called God Abba, and that means both daddy and mommy. So, God is both mommy and daddy, and now your mommy is a part of God. God is mommy and daddy: daddy and mommy divine.”

Eileen, now now….don’t be making things up that aren’t there.  Try that with either one of the Atheist on this site and they will have you for dinner….

“Abba is an alternate Aramaic term for “father.” It is the word that Jesus used to address God in Mark 14:36. Paul pairs the word with the Greek word for “father” in Rom. 8:15 and Gal. 4:6.

The ‘alep that terminates the form ‘abba’ functions as both a demonstrative and a vocative particle in Aramaic. In the time of Jesus the word connoted both the emphatic concept, “the father,” and the more intimate “my father, our father.”

While the word was the common form of address for children, there is much evidence that in the time of Jesus the practice was not limited only to children. The childish character of the word (“daddy”) thus receded, and ‘abba’ acquired the warm, familiar ring which we may feel in such an expression as “dear father.”

This is the most amusing thing I have watched in quite some time.  Two presumably intelligent people whose cognitive dissonance shrouds their abilities to actually THINK, fighting over who has the right imaginary and invisible deity. :D

Excuse me for butting in, but Tom, I did want to answer your question to me, then you can go back to your quipping Bible verses with Eileen.

::“By tgambill, December 5 at 9:58 am # ::

Yes, I am saying that atheists are by far more moral than the religious.  I am saying it, and there is a ton of proof to back it up.  Stats being one.

Of course we are mammals and we will always fight very similar to our ancestors—the wild beasts.  But as we have become a more evolved species with a higher intelligence (in most cases) we do try and let go of the Pol Pot, Hitler, and Rev Jim Jones philosphies.  We learn from our past struggles.  Still, we are no less bound by nature, than our animal ancestors who were territorial just as we are, whose maternal instinct is “Killer” just as our’s is, etc.  BUT, religion is THE NUMBER ONE CAUSE of violence, arguing and intolerance in the world today.

Are you blind?  I know you’re not stupid (albeit deluded)...but what is the problem?

You’re both whacked in the head about gods and monsters.  And even if Jesus DID come back (hardy har) he would have many of US to contend with. Maybe it would be HIM that would need to do the “buckling up”.  Yea.  I think so.  Good thing he’s imaginary.

When they instigate the next incident designed to take out the US; then the President, whomever is left, will declare a national disaster and subsequently martial law.  The Posse Comitatus Act has been effectively eliminated by the John Warner National Defense Authorization Act, of October 2006, several revisions later….by authorizing the President to inform congress that he is declaring a state of emergency.  The President can now declare martial law without congressional approval and send those 20,000 troops to whereever needed.  It is coming early 2009 if they stay on track and in line with their objective.  The Depression will then go as scheduled several decades ago and then we will have one hell of a war on our hands.  Their secret is safe, 99.9% of Americans have no clue what is going to happen to them, they are dabbling and some are waking up but few to cause any trouble.  The FBI/CIA have undercover agents or special ops agents making sure that the militia’s are armed and go to a civil war.  They need this to happen in order to blame the militia’s and justify declaration of martial law.  The street gangs are unionizing and will start a crime wave nation wide at nice neighborhoods so they will howl for martial law….clever huh.?  Now, here comes the shocker…...Russian and UN troops are going to appear out of nowhere and be on the streets as they are already living in the US.  The Chinese troops, Russian Troops, Mexican and Cuban forces will sweep through Mexico to Southern Calf. Texas and Arizona cutting the US in half.  Airborne units from Russia will sweep down from Alaska into the northwest areas and subs on the east and west coast will blast the coast for who knows what strategy.  Guardian Angels will be duputized to act as the National Security Force and to deal with the “crime wave”.  Black Islamic radicals also with Special Ops will go against the while millitia and they won’t know that each has been set up by the NWO planners. 

Gold will be confiscated as the American public has been deceived into purchasing Gold for a rainy day. The dollar will crash and not come up.  The plan since decades was to move to hard currency backed by silver, called the Amero.  The delayed National ID card act of May 2008 will be enacted this time in 2009.  Their little plan of moving the nukes from Minot to Barksdale was caught last year.  Too bad these scum murdered AF personnel to keep this quiet.  This is only scratching the surface on what Await Americans and European citizens as the dollar crash will also topple the other currencies…..as planned…..yes their plan is secret however, it will not go as they think.  Big surprise is waiting for them that they aren’t aware of.  Their “overlords” are aware but that is many levels over the peons. 

This is being orchestrated like they did in 1929 for that great depression to set up a military coup in 1933 that didn’t go down like they had expected. 

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article7610.html

Better take heed.  I’ve done my research and I’m spot on.  Its going to get ugly and yes, the Christian Zionism and Jewish Zionism, Vatican, high level masons are working with the Illuminati.

“the scripture you cite WAS fulfilled 2,000 years ago for JC broke up the homes of many Hebrews with his radical teaching that God CHOSE EVERYONE!”

******No, this is not correct, sorry.  He came the first time to die on the cross for our sins and his birth and return is what he was talking about as he changed the Old Testament law.  Don’t mistake that when he said God chose everyone, he meant gentiles and Jews.  But, only those that accept Jesus as their personal savior and repent of their sins will they see the Kingdom of Heaven.  Many a Christian will not see the kingdom of heaven because according to 2 Thess 2, they will not have taken him as personal savior in their hearts. 

“you have also bought into a very small, heretical and judgmental God-”

*****heretical?  Not at all.  Judgmental…absolutely by his own words.  John 9:39….King James Bible

And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

“you miss the point that Jesus/The Prince of Peace was all about NONVIOLENCE-and the Rapture is a pie in the sky pipe dream.”

******Eileen, I’m sorry, but you are a wolve in sheeps clothing.  The Bible is true and if you say this you are calling God a liar. The Bible is explicit.  God doesn’t give pipe dreams.  God and Jesus are one and the same.  He was non-violent on his first visit, but according to the prophesy once the stage was set for us, he [God] will take his vengence on all those that did not follow Jesus’s teachings.  100% guaranteed. 

“Christianity is NOT about escapism-it is about BECOMING Jesus by DOING what he taught and he was always NONVIOLENT, compassionate, forgiving. He only got pissed off by the judgmental religious authorities of his time!”

******We will never become jesus.  Its like saying I will become you.  We can be like jesus in his example when he laid down the new Commandments.  but, if we reject his teachings according to the Bible and fail to adhere to Romans 10:9 for example…those will not be blessed. 

“This INSPIRED and truth-filled story may help wake you up:

The Revolution Has Begun… “

******Plenty awake.  If its not in the Bible, its not true. 

“On Wednesday, July 20, 2005, in Berkeley, California, Jack intuitively sensed opportunity blowing in the wind as he rounded the corner from Durant and Telegraph on his way to UC Berkeley’s MLK student union building for TIKKUN’s first annual conference on spiritual activism. As he crossed Bancroft Way, a young, beatifically-smiling latte-skinned youth handed him an electric green slip of paper announcing:

“Compassionate Caregivers: Medical Cannabis. Two locations, 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., seven days a week.”

*******okay, medical cannabis….that means he got the munchies afterwards, right??

oh brother tgambill,

the scripture you cite WAS fulfilled 2,000 years ago for JC broke up the homes of many Hebrews with his radical teaching that God CHOSE EVERYONE!

you have also bought into a very small, heretical and judgmental God-

you miss the point that Jesus/The Prince of Peace was all about NONVIOLENCE-and the Rapture is a pie in the sky pipe dream.

Christianity is NOT about escapism-it is about BECOMING Jesus by DOING what he taught and he was always NONVIOLENT, compassionate, forgiving. He only got pissed off by the judgmental religious authorities of his time!

This INSPIRED and truth-filled story may help wake you up:

The Revolution Has Begun…

“The Revolution starts now, when you rise above your fear and tear the walls round you down.”-Steve Earle

             
On Wednesday, July 20, 2005, in Berkeley, California, Jack intuitively sensed opportunity blowing in the wind as he rounded the corner from Durant and Telegraph on his way to UC Berkeley’s MLK student union building for TIKKUN’s first annual conference on spiritual activism. As he crossed Bancroft Way, a young, beatifically-smiling latte-skinned youth handed him an electric green slip of paper announcing:

“Compassionate Caregivers: Medical Cannabis. Two locations, 8 a.m. to 8 p.m., seven days a week.”

The Rest:

http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1055&Itemid=211

Eileen,

Let me give you the exact gensis of the middle east conflict.  Albert Pike planned WWI, WWII and WWIII yet to come between 1850 to 1871.  The establishment of Zionism in 1897 was the first effort to set the stage for this war.  Google Albert Pike, Satanist, Genius, Mason, set the wheels in motion as dictated by Adam Weishaupt in May 1, 1776.  The same plan we a part of today.  Google this, as this can’t be disputed but it can be denied.  Its an amazing story and plan.

“Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:34-39

This is the real Jesus the next time he returns. 100% sure.  Better buckle up. The transfer of wealth, a harvest and the Rapture then the Tribulations.

Part 3

A short history of ‘Christian’ Zionism

In 1891, Christian fundamentalist and lay-preacher, William Blackstone appealed to President Benjamin Harrison to help establish a Jewish state in Palestine. Blackstone was a disciple of Dwight L. Moody and they both were influenced by the father of premillenial dispensationalism, John Nelson Darby.

Darby had great success in connecting with the post-Civil War survivors and was able to transmit his new theology into the heartland of America. Despite the horrifying news of Czarist pogroms that could have been the catalyst to establishing a Jewish state before the Holocaust, the fundamentalists moved onto the Scope’s Trial and forgot about the Jews for a while.

Fifty years later and after six million innocents were cold bloodedly murdered, and then only after the British Mandate ran out, Israel was born.

Many evangelicals misinterpreted the establishment of Israel to be the fulfillment of -how they understood and interpreted- certain prophetic scriptures.

They also misunderstood that the Israeli victory in the 1967 War and the capture of Jerusalem, the West Bank, Gaza, Sinai and the Golan Heights was NOT an act of God but because of Israeli superior military might.

The American Bi-Centennial in 1976 was a watershed year for the religious right. While mainline churches declined evangelical fundamentalist churches became the fastest growing sector of American Christianity. TIME magazine named 1976 as The Year of The Evangelical and suddenly they became a legitimate political and religious force.

“Following the War of 1967, Israel gained an increased portion of USA foreign aid and military budgets, becoming the ‘western pillar’ of the USA strategic alliance against Soviet incursion into the Middle East…During this period AIPAC and other pro-Israeli lobby agencies began their ascent to power in shaping USA foreign policy.”-pg. 35 Challenging Christian Zionism http://www.sabeel.org

learn more in this INSPIRED and truth filled story:

A CONFRONTATIONAL CONVERSATION

http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=438&Itemid=147

The Jesus [God] will not be peaceful when he returns.  He will be the Messiah that the Jews were looking for the first time.  He will come back as a God of wrath and will execute the Great Tribulations as described in the Bible.  One third of mankind will be wiped out, it will be the most terrible time that mankind has ever experienced.  The Anti-Christ will come in as a peacemaker and benevolent, but it won’t last long.  The next “messiah” to appear will be evil to the core.  He will appear to be non-violent and peaceful but this will be a lie. 

Christian Zionism, Charasmatic movement, New Age religions are all designed by the Illuminati to bring on the New World Order and keep the masses controlled.

Part 2

“We have seen the enemy and he is US”-Pogo

The Bush White House convened a series of off-the-record meetings about its policies in the Middle East with leaders of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), a newly formed political organization that tells its members that supporting Israel’s expansionist policies is “a biblical imperative.”

The Nation reported that CUFI’s pressed White House officials to adopt a more confrontational posture toward Iran, to refuse aid to the Palestinians and give Israel a free hand as it ramped up its military conflict with Hezbollah.

The White House has not revealed the names of the officials who met with CUFI lobbyists which is a tentacle from the Armageddon-based foreign-policy views of its founder, John Hagee.
Hagee is a fundamentalist, fire-and-brimstone preacher and a leader of the fastest growing cult in America: Christian Zionism, which is inherently anti-Semitic.

While Jewish Zionism began with the hope that all Jewish people would have a safe and peaceful dwelling place, these corruptors of the gospel Christ preached, adhere to a 200 year old mis-interpretation and mis-reading of disparate scriptures that they have weaved together to support their fear based doctrine.

Hagee has captivated nearly 18,000 misled Christians at his Cornerstone Church with his take on who the anti-christ is, and he also hosts a major TV ministry where he explains his views of how the end times will unfold. He blatantly corrupts and denies the message that Christ preached. Hagee, Hal Lindsay and the Left Behinder’s are doomsday false ‘prophets’ who believe that the only way to defeat “Islamist fascists” is with a full-scale military assault.

The cult of ‘Christian’ Zionism is what the concept of Anti-Christ is all about; against Christ’s teachings!

This heretical theology of Premellenial Dispensation worships a god of Armageddon and not the God of love, forgiveness and compassion that Jesus/AKA The Prince of Peace taught.

The cult of ‘Christian’ Zionism is the epitome of what the majority of theologians have always understood to be what the term anti-christ is really about.

Christian Zionists desire to convert the Jews to Christianity or leave them to perish in a nuclear holocaust, for they believe that is Gods desire.

TBC

Oh dear tgambill,

“KEEP HOPE ALIVE” was MOST definitely an inspired work-i did the research and all the interviews; but when i sat down to write it out-it poured from my heart onto MY WORD document.

That is what being caught up in the spirit is all about; an effortless flow of grace [free gift from God] that took control of me.

When JC said the poor, oppressed, outcasts, diseased, refugees, prisoners and all people living under military occupation were ‘Blessed’ he meant they will be WHEN we who claim to follow his teachings DO IT!

The problem is NOT with Christianity, the problem is that too few who claim to be one actually DO IT!

There is NO justification for killing, bombing, torturing or occupying other people.

“The age of warrior kings and of warrior presidents has passed. The nuclear age calls for a different kind of leadership….a leadership of intellect, judgment, tolerance and rationality, a leadership committed to human values, to world peace, and to the improvement of the human condition. The attributes upon which we must draw are the human attributes of compassion and common sense, of intellect and creative imagination, and of empathy and understanding between cultures.” - William Fulbright

“We have seen the enemy and he is US”-Pogo

The Bush White House convened a series of off-the-record meetings about its policies in the Middle East with leaders of Christians United for Israel (CUFI), a political organization that tells its members that supporting Israel’s expansionist policies is “a biblical imperative.”

This is heresy as well as bullshit!

The Nation reported that CUFI’s pressed White House officials to adopt a more confrontational posture toward Iran, to refuse aid to the Palestinians and give Israel a free hand as it ramped up its military conflict with Hezbollah.

The White House has not revealed the names of the officials who met with CUFI lobbyists which is a tentacle from the Armageddon-based foreign-policy views of its founder, John Hagee.
Hagee is a fundamentalist [anyone who has quit thinking] fire-and-brimstone preacher and a leader of the fastest growing cult in America: Christian Zionism, which is inherently anti-Semitic.

While Jewish Zionism began with the hope that all Jewish people would have a safe and peaceful dwelling place, these corruptors of the gospel Christ preached, adhere to a 200 year old mis-interpretation and mis-reading of disparate scriptures that they have weaved together to support their fear based doctrine.

The cult of ‘Christian’ Zionism is what the concept of Anti-Christ is all about; against Christ’s teachings!

This heretical theology of Premellenial Dispensation worships a god of Armageddon and not the God of love, forgiveness and compassion that Jesus/AKA The Prince of Peace taught.

Christian Zionists desire to convert the Jews to Christianity or leave them to perish in a nuclear holocaust, for they believe that is Gods desire.

TBC

The beliefs aren’t hurting and killing people.  People are hurting and killing people.  Atheist, agnostics, Christian, and Scientologist are killing people as its not confined to a religion.  Are you saying that all military, convicts, and Psycho’s, are religious?  SO, All Atheist are peaceful and loving and non-killers?  I see. 

funny that people can’t read…about the commandments…

Jesus answered, “The most important is: ‘Listen, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ The second is: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”
Mark 12:29-31

But it wasn’t witnessed by you, Tom.  Some people say they’ve been abducted and anally probed by aliens.  In fact, a LOT of people say very similar things.  That doesn’t make it true.

I agree mainly with Johnm.  But I don’t think it’s a waste of time because these beliefs are hurting and killing people.  Discussing them, enlightening people (in whatever fashion) can never be wasted so long as ONE person is being hurt.

Jesus’s resurrection was witnessed by over 400 people.  Secondly, the deaths of the apostles are recorded and they all died proclaiming the resurrection and deity of Jesus.  No one will die for a lie and everyone one except Judas died for this cause.  Suicide bombers die for a cause, believing its the truth.  They would not die thinking Allah didn’t exist and if Islam was a false religion as they have been taught since birth. 

No, the evidence is clear…....his appearance and the rather significant event coming in the fairly near future will prove otherwise.  Just remember this exchange of emails when this happens…..Romans 10:9 will then come to mind and repentence.

I’m a little busy right now….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QfpTBSgbTlQ&feature=email

UH….does this boat have a dingy….and no holes.

A Beatitude for every tense there is:  “Blessed” are the insane, for they miss the boat, they are missing the boat right now, they missed the boat, they were missing the boat, they will miss the boat, they have missed the boat, they have been missing the boat, they had missed the boat before anybody else, by the time I am done here they will have missed the boat.

FYI: “the boat” is a metaphor for reality.  But, wink wink, you already knew that.

Annie,  )  welcome to the club….0 no kidding.

I feel like I just entered the Twilight zone…or perhaps an insane asylum.

“The Bible was NOT Faxed in!”

*****Ah, we agree on this.  The main reason was that faxes didn’t exist then.  So, God had to inspire man and the men he inspired were chosen by them.  Besides God didn’t need a fax.  He operated wireless. 

“The Bible contains STORIES of people who struggled with and misunderstood God!”

******Yes, and it also contains stories of men and women who did understand God and those that didn’t God taught them for us to read about now. 

“I excerpt from “KEEP HOPE ALIVE” to make my point”

*****Keep Hope Alive?  Written by man or women and not inspired by God.  SO, you are telling me that Keep Hope Alive was faxed in…..) 

“The Divine is within all creation and within all women and men.”

*****yes, the Holy Spirit is there but you are not saved until you become born again and accept Jesus Christ as savior.  The Kingdom is coming in without us or with us, its in the prophesy and we have nothing to do with it.  Each individual is responsible for their joining into the kingdom depending on their commitment to Jesus Christ. 

good works are like filthy rags if counted on alone.  You know that from Biblical scripture.  However, you must first discredit the Bible to make these New Age false claims.  The Atheist here are very intelligent and well spoken.  They are true to their belief as I can’t judge them personally as I have my own faults.  However, you claim to know God and CERTAINLY are not true to the belief in God and what he stands for…...

“And the kingdom comes from above, and it comes from within.”

*****huh???  what are you talking about, sorry.  From above and from within…..???? 

“Imagine a kingdom of sisterhood of all creatures and all men.”

****God already promised this but no sisterhood.  You will find that in Harlem.

WAKE UP tgambill

The Bible was NOT Faxed in!

The Bible contains STORIES of people who struggled with and misunderstood God!

I excerpt from “KEEP HOPE ALIVE” to make my point:

“I’ll tell you what my daddy told me when I was a kid, when my brothers and I would get out of hand. He’d say, ‘boys, you all are going the way of Cain and Abel, and you’d better quit. For one of those boys was filled with so much hatred and jealousy that he killed the other.’

“Then my old man would be on a roll, and he’d tell us about Sarah, Abraham’s wife. And we loved to hear that part, so we’d quit our fight. You see, although Sarah was already menopaused, she still desired a child.

“God had even shared a laugh with her about it coming true, but just like a woman, she took the matter into her own hands, and refused to wait for the Lord to deliver.

“So old Sarah decided to give her maidservant to her old man, and that chick and Abraham made a kid. Everything was fine when Ishmael arrived, but only for a very short while.

“Now, although Sarah was a dried-up old crone, she, too, birthed a son, and named him after the laughter she had shared with God, but called the kid Isaac.

“Sarah had gotten very territorial and demanded Abraham cast out his beloved first son with his mama Haggar, into the barren wilderness, and Abraham did it! But, as God always hears the cries of mothers and sons, he promised to make a great nation from Ishmael’s descendants, too. And thus, the Arab nation was born.

“By the sixth century before Christ, the conflicts in the land were already old news, and Jeremiah warned the people that all God could see was violence and destruction in the city.

“Sickness and wounds were all around. And then my old man would get tears in his eyes and softly recite:

For every misunderstanding, every condemning thought, every negative vibration, every tear torn from a heart, every time one grabbed and wouldn’t let go, and they only did it because they did not know:

The Divine is within all creation and within all women and men.

And every tiny kindness you have ever done, every gentle word spoken, every time you held your tongue, every positive thought, every smile freely given, every helping hand that opens, helps bring in the kingdom.

And the kingdom comes from above, and it comes from within.

Imagine a kingdom of sisterhood of all creatures and all men.

copyright eileen fleming

no no, I was kidding about the henonymous, Its too hard for me to spel.  My universe is going to take a little longer than I thought.  That first particle is not being cooperative.  lol…..

tgambill, I was referring to the newager, not you.  I know you can’t save yourself!  and besides you are family, we gotta love ya even if you have odd ideas.  I hope you are seriously working on that new universe. 

Oh, no offense intended in my clarifying that I am a she, not a he.  But if you want to be called Henonymous, I’m glad to oblige.

saving myself?  I love the complement but can’t do that.  Complement since no one in the history of mankind has ever saved themselves and you must think I can.  thanks.   

However, when I create my first universe then I’ll save myself.

Substanceless JesusBabble is unending from those who have no mind of their own and who insist on spewing unintelligible soliloquies.  Try saving yourself instead of trying to drown everyone else.  The claim of being wideawake is amusing in view of the fact that while the megalomaniacal you thinks your eyes are open, you are really unconscious.

Eileen, evolution is impossible as I saw the article about it holding up. 

“In other words: how comforted you will be when you WAKE UP and see God is already within you, within every man, every woman and every child. The Supreme Being is everywhere, the Alpha and Omega, beginning and end. Beyond The Universe -and yet so small; within the heart of every atom.”

*****ONLY through Jesus Christ can the Holy Spirit come into you.  If you are using the Bible then you have to believe in all of the Bible or none.  You can’t pick and choose just the verses that support the New Age Movement.  Did you know for a fact that tenent by tenent the New Age Movement is exactly Nazism with another name.

I spin The Beatitudes for the 21st Century as my humble way to make Jesus contemporary and liberate him from the small minds and hard hearts that believe any one religion can own God.

About 2,000 years ago, when Christ was about 33, he hiked up a hill and sat down under an olive tree and began to teach the people;

“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the Kingdom of heaven.”

In other words: it is those who know their own spiritual poverty, their own limitations and sins honestly and trust God loves them in spite of themselves who already live in the Kingdom of God.

How comforted we will all be, when we see, we haven’t got a clue, as to the depth and breadth of pure love and mercy of The Divine Mystery of The Universe.

God’s name in ancient Aramaic is Abba which means Daddy as much as Mommy and He/She: The Lord has said, “My ways are not your ways. My thoughts are not yours.” -Isaiah 55:8

Christ proclaimed more: “Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.”

The essence of meek is to be patient with ignorance, slow to anger and never hold a grudge.

In other words: how comforted you will be when you also know humility; when you know yourself, the good and the bad, for both cut through every human heart.

“Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, they will be filled.”

In other words: how comforted you will be when your greatest desire is to do what “God requires, and he has already told you what that is; BE JUST, BE MERCIFUL and walk humbly with your Lord.”-Micah 6:8

“Blessed are the merciful, they will be shown mercy.”

In other words: how comforted you will all be when you choose to return only kindness to your ‘enemy.’

“For with the measure you measure against another, it will be measured back to you,” Christ warns his disciples as he explains the law of karma in Luke 6:27-38.

“Blessed are the pure in heart, for they see God.”

In other words: how comforted you will be when you WAKE UP and see God is already within you, within every man, every woman and every child. The Supreme Being is everywhere, the Alpha and Omega, beginning and end. Beyond The Universe -and yet so small; within the heart of every atom.

“Blessed are The Peacemakers: THEY shall be called the children of God.”

And what a wonderful world it would be when we all seek justice and pursue it, for there can be none without the other.

“Blessed are those who are persecuted because they do what God requires, theirs is The Kingdom of Heaven.”

And one fine day the lion will lie down with The Lamb and man will make war no more and that is the Kingdom of God…....

The following is excerpted from “The New Body of Christ:

I once gave a sermon that began with the story of Rabbi Hillel, who lived 100 years before Jesus walked the earth.

Rabbi Hillel understood the Hebrew understanding of Hokema; Holy Wisdom; The Feminine Divinity, was the same as the Greek understanding of The Logos: The Word.

It was Saints John and Paul that understood The Logos: The Word was Jesus.

So with a little imagination you can imagine that before Jesus walked the earth a man, he was already a she; The Word, Holy Wisdom, Hokema, the feminine divinity.

I gave that sermon to a mainline conservative congregation. It didn’t go over well…

The Rest:

http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=827&Itemid=195

Jesus was man enough to allow his mind to be changed by a few women, but the early church fathers could NOT follow that closely!

Christ, you know it ain’t easy
You know how hard it can be
The way things are going
They’re gonna crucify me-John Lennon, who also understood:

“The struggle is in the mind. We must bury our own monsters and stop condemning people. We are all Christ and Hitler. We want Christ to win. We’re trying to make Christ’s message contemporary. What would he have done if he had advertisements, records, films, TV and newspapers! Christ made miracles to tell his message. Well, the miracle today is communications, so let’s use it.”

That battle rages on to make Christ contemporary and I am utilizing the World Wide Web and WAWA:

A GREATER AWAKENING:

http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=64&Itemid=195

Opps sorry, I keep forgetting.  seriously.    I remember now, refer to me as henonymous then.  )

If the events did not actually happen or the Bible was errant by apparent contradictions then it would not have survived the centuries, and it would not have been written.  The Authors of the Bible, 40 in all, in 66 different books, and over a period of 1,600 years is not refuted.  If the Bible was written by man, especially then Moses would not have known about the true steps in which to create a world.  Moses wrote the Genesis by inspiration from God.  Moses lived in a desert and had no college degree from Desert Tech.  )  He got the necessary steps in the proper order as they are required.  If the Bible was made up to enslave the masses then surely the Jesus, Messiah when he returned to Earth after the three days of work we shall say would not have met a woman first when he came back, and especially a former prostitute.  They would of written in that he [Jesus] appeared to someone in the clergy or apostles before anyone else.  However, this did not happen.  The Bible is true and historically accurate and never had any contradictions, but different perceptions by humans, but this a human problem. 

“The questions then about the truth of the bible that beg to be answered are in what way does the bible demonstrably cohere to reality (which in turn implies an unerring view of reality, and in what way does it correspond to provable knowledge.”

*****It has stood the test of time and going strong.  No one dies for a lie.  The apostles save one all died proclaiming the true nature of Jesus.  Many of them before he came back from the grave denied him in life and were skeptical.  Its a true account and the theme of the Bible and of God is that we follow him with faith until he reveals himself. 

“These two conditions have never been shown to exist by you, tgambill, and not even closely brushed by the sentimental new-ager, eileen.”

*****This is something that you have to wrestle with when he does show.  However, you will have to go through the tribulations and if you don’t accept the mark and then take Jesus as Savior you will be saved for eternity.  Otherwise not. 

“The assumption that the text of Bible has been properly interpreted, with consideration for the intention of the text, whether literal history, allegory or poetry, etc. is greatly contested by scholars.”

******Scholars???  )  You mean Scholars that are probably atheist, agnostic, or Illuminati scholars that have inflitrated the Catholic church as clergy and basically lying their collective butts off….Men that are four dimensional creatures trying to explain or debunk a book dimensions ahead of them….these scholars who work for the CFR or Illuminati?  Now that is credible…/sarc

Faith until he returns is the bottom line.

Please, one more thing.  Please refer to me as Shenonymous, Ms. Shenonymous, Dr. Shenonymous, or Professor Shenonymous, but not Mr. Shenonymous as I am not a man, and I do not pretend to be one.  Thank you.

Excluding emotional attachment, and taking a sober look at what Truth with a capital T is, it would be hard to argue with the notion that Truth is the archetype of all the truths that pretend to imitate it.  Not that the various claims are not true, but that they each in themselves do not exist as Truth in the universal.  As a model, then, the various pretenders of Truth, the truths, must each be questioned and tested for compliance.  Anything else is merely personal opinion and there is no precedent to believe one person’s opinion over another.  Truth implies coherence to reality, or correspondence to reality.  Coherence to reality implies a knowledge of what reality is to which the claim complies; correspondence implies there is proof that a claim of knowledge fulfills.

The questions then about the truth of the bible that beg to be answered are in what way does the bible demonstrably cohere to reality (which in turn implies an unerring view of reality, and in what way does it correspond to provable knowledge.  These two conditions have never been shown to exist by you, tgambill, and not even closely brushed by the sentimental new-ager, eileen. 

Uncontested facts may not provide reasons in themselves, but are only useful to provide tenable bases for reliable construction of true belief.  Uncontested fact is that the Old Testament to the bible was written by unknowns, please research the Torah.  If you cannot find a reliable site, I am happy to furnish one below. The authorship of the various texts in Tanakh (the Hebrew Bible) is an open topic of research. Therefore, assigning solid dates to any of the texts is not only difficult but in actuality, impossible.  For your convenience I am providing the following site that is an extensive bibliography for the Old Testament of the Judaeo/Christian Bible
http://www.bible-researcher.com/ot-bibliography.html

The assumption that the text of Bible has been properly interpreted, with consideration for the intention of the text, whether literal history, allegory or poetry, etc. is greatly contested by scholars.  Especially contested is the doctrine of infallibility which is diversely understood according to the weight given by the interpreter to scientific investigations of the world.  Moreover, there are two competing strands of accepted revelation.  How to decide which line is the truth is the perennial problem.

Mythology…....?  Considering the existence of the “Sons of God” in Genesis 6 and the Nephilim, the science of Eugenics and the who the real UFO’s are, mythology may be a partial ruse and part truth.  In any case, mythology was created in its present form to associate with the truth of the Bible making it seem that the truth of the Bible was also mythology.  In fact the Bible is true…..

Tom,

Try to remember this from mythology class: There_Is_No_Dragon.  Talking_Snakes_Do_Not_Exist…

Annie, there are no problems.  You are only fooling yourself and outsmarting yourself.  J’s, I’s whodoneit….will be your testament for an eternity when the day comes.  We can do this all day, you will just have to see this go down and then meet the big guy yourself. 

There will be a shake up soon, and life as you know it will be changed forever.  Just remember what we have talked about.

Apologetics…ZZZZZZZZZ…

So, how do we get from Immanuel “god with us” to Joshua, Iesous [Greek] and then Jesus [English]?

The inconsistencies of the Bible, and the re-interpretations are so vast—even in the decision of what this character’s name was—-that it’s laughable.  Just what WAS his name anyway?

Example: In the so-called New Testament of the Bible there were two instances where an angel and the spirit form of the Messiah appeared to humans and spoke to them in Hebrew. First, Gabriel spoke to Mary regarding her unborn son. Since Mary was Hebrew of the tribe of Judah (Lk. 1:27), Gabriel had to communicate to her in the Hebrew tongue, her native language, not Chinese or Greek, because she would not have been able to understand him. “And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with Elohim (God). And, behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS (Luke 1:30-31).” BUT in the Hebrew alphabet, there is no J in Hebrew. So the question is what did the angel Gabriel say that the baby would be named?  It was impossible for him to say Jesus because Jesus is GREEK for Yahshua.

Couldn’t god have been a little more clear with the western world? Or do you reckon that was all just about the Middle Eastern world?  And when you pray to “Jesus” do you use that name?  Because he spoke Aramaic, whose alphabet also does not have the “J” sound.  So does Jesus save?  Or some other guy? 

Inquiring minds…Maybe you should just refer to him as Jehovah so that you can inherit paradise on earth…Oops!  There’s that “J” sound again.

If you can’t see the problems that arise from not even knowing what to call your god when there are so many different gods…then I can’t help you out of the deluded state. :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yeshua_(name)

Yeshua, spelled יֵשׁוּעַ (Yēšûă‘) in Hebrew, was a common name among Jews of the Second Temple Period, and is believed by some scholars[1] and religious groups[2] to be the Hebrew or Aramaic name for Jesus.

The name Yeshua literally means The LORD’s Salvation, or Salvation from the LORD. In comparison, prior to being transliterated from the Hebrew Bible, the name Iesus did not exist in Greek. Through multiple translations and changes in pronunciation, a tradition of saying “Jesus” has obscured His name, “Yeshua.” It has shifted His perceived message and identity from Hebrew to Greek.

http://jesusisajew.org/YESHUA.php

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sEBAldf4L0

quote:

Yeshua is the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Joshua.” Iesous is the Greek transliteration of the Hebrew name, and its English spelling is “Jesus.” Thus, the names Joshua and Jesus are essentially the same; both are English pronunciations of the Hebrew and Greek names for the Lord. (For examples of how the two names are interchangeable, see Acts 7:45 and Hebrews 4:8 in the KJV. In both cases, the word Jesus refers to the Old Testament character Joshua.)

In German, our English word “book” is buch. In Spanish, it becomes a libro; in French, a livre. The language changes, but the object itself does not. In the same way, we can refer to Jesus as “Jesus,” “Yeshua,” or “YehSou” (Cantonese), without changing His nature. In any language, His name means “the Lord Is Salvation.”

We refer to Him as “Jesus” because, as English-speaking people, we know of Him through English translations of the Greek New Testament. Scripture does not value one language over another, and it gives no indication that we must resort to Hebrew when addressing the Lord.

The command is to “call on the name of the Lord,” with the promise that we “shall be saved” (Acts 2:21; Joel 2:32). Whether we call on Him in English, Korean, Hindi, or Hebrew, the result is the same: the Lord is salvation.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Yeshua-Jesus.html

Always leaving out the essential elements.  I have to mainly because you will have to see his presence and experience the tribulations.  We can go like this for years…..until you are confronted with the reality. 

“And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.” II Th 2:8-10 (KJV)

http://www.geocities.com/raptureapologetics/Delusion.html

100,000 Jews out of how many millions of people?  That’s not a lot.  So, why don’t the others believe?  Because they were disappointed in Jesus behaviour?  Where does this notion come into play?  Paul himself had to be admonished for not accepting the gentiles…so what?  It’s all just dogmatic blah blah.  Many xians convert to Islam.  So what?  People often give up one addiction for another.

Jews HAVE been held responsible for the death of Jesus, even though he most likely didnt even exist.  Hitler USED Jesus as a way to incense Germany against the Jews.  Can you then blame them?

And Yeshua is the name for Joshua, not Jesus.

You have Messianic Judaism which are Jews that believe in and have accepted Yeshua (the Hebrew name for Jesus) of Nazareth as the promised Messiah of the Hebrew Scriptures. These Jewish people do not stop being Jewish, but they continue to remain strong in their Jewish identity, lifestyle and culture, while following Yeshua as He is revealed in the Brit Chadashah, the New Covenant.

The Jews with the exception of the Messianic Jews reject Jesus because he failed in their eyes to do what they expected the Coming messiah to do.  This was to destroy evil and kill their enemies, and establish an eternal kingdom with Israel as the prominent nation in the world.  Isaiah and Psalm 22 describes a suffering Messiah who would be persecuted and killed.  The Jews however, chose to focus on those prophecies that discussed His glorious victories and not His crucifixion.  The Talmud was written before the onset of Christianity.  The Church used the prophecies to prove the claims of Christ, the Jews took the position that the prophecies did not refer to the Messiah, but to Israel or some other person.

Jesus rode into Jerusalem on a donkey (Matthew 21:9). They treated Him like a conquering king.  Then when He allowed Himself to be arrested, tried and crucified on a cursed cross, the people stopped believing that He was the promised prophet.  Because of this they rejected their Messiah (Matthew 27:22).

Israel rejected her prophesied Messiah, and the promises of the kingdom of heaven were therefore postponed.  A veil of spiritual blindness fell upon the eyes of the Jews who previously were the most spiritually discerning people.  As Paul explained, this hardening in part of Israel led to the blessing of the Gentiles who would believe in Jesus and accept Him as Lord and Savior.

Some Jews ultimately believe that they are being held responsible for the death of Jesus Christ and are being persecuted for that reason. They, have rejected him today. 

However, many Jews are turning to Christ today.  The God of Israel has always been faithful to keep a “remnant” of believing Jews to Himself. In the United States alone, some estimates say that there are over 100,000 Jewish believers in Jesus

::*****Your answer, as you might be called aunt, darlin, wife, mother, caregiver, daughter, etc….::

That’s pretty vague information from a god who wants everyone to get the right answer so they can all go to a different paradise then the one he originally botched.

Why DON’T the Jews believe this?

Again, how could the Jews all not believe?  Why do you think the Jews don’t believe?  300 give or take signs of the Messiah

““Isaiah 7:14 seems to specifically suggest that the Virgin will CALL the child Immanuel. Since “God With Us” and “God Shall Save” are not identical names, what do you make of this?”“

*****Your answer, as you might be called aunt, darlin, wife, mother, caregiver, daughter, etc….

100 Biblical Names and Titles of Christ

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/jesustitles.htm

“:: He sets the rules and he decides.::”

Well, then he certainly is and always was a tyrant.

If he came and died for everyone so that he could understand what it was for us, then he must not have known, again making him imperfect.

Also, who was he talking to when he asked why he was forsaken??  Crazy crazy crazy….

The Jews don’t accept Jesus.  This doesn’t mean he didn’t exist, it just means that they reject him.  The Jews that do, are few and will be resurrected, the others won’t…...simple.

There is but one God.  God of the Bible all others ar false or they are Nephilim which are coming soon.  That is another surprise that will shock humans.

Mr. Sheno, for once I have to agree that this is a good question in reality.  Actually this is a fantastic question and one that on occasion that I struggle with.  I didn’t ask to come into this world and no on asked me if I wanted to.  I see good hearted people who are not Christian but who will not go to heaven because they did not accept Jesus as savior.  SO what becomes of them?  I don’t know.  Nevertheless, we are here.  Evolution in its pseudo-scientific way is impossible to have been the cause as evidenced by even Darwin in his last chapter as he doubts his own theory unless certain assumptions are present.  God does exist and a God that created all of this is not going to be a liar as well.  We are renters and did not create the universe nor do we as limited as we are set the rules or tell God who he is or what he is going to do.  He sets the rules and he decides.  There is but one truth, and if there are many truths then God is a liar and is unjust?  I don’t think so.  What is the truth?  Which one is true…?  All can be false but only one can be true.  quoting Bertrand Russell.  Not my favorite atheist but he was astute in this quote.  I found that that the false can be found in the religion that exaults man.  Another discussion another time unless they shut down the internet any time soon. 

He came down as one of us to take his own medicine.  He suffered and died and to the surprise of Satan and his followers this man Jesus rose again to become our redeemer and savior.  He was God in his human form to die for us. 

It is the way of this life, God made us in his image. God created mankind in the divine likeness (verse 27) , yet man was made totally physical. In Genesis 2:7, it is clearly stated:

“And the Eternal God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”
When Adam took his first breath, he became a living being. He did not become an immortal spirit on the same level as God, for Ezekiel 18:4 tells us,

“The soul that sinneth, it shall die.”
The suffering that God permits helps us to develop godly character. God chastens every son whom He loves because chastening strengthens the individual (Hebrews 12:5-10 ). It is done for our profit so that we can be partakers of the holy character of God the Father.

Self-control is an important part of godly character. We must grow and develop our ability to exercise self control through the suppression of wrong desires and selfish motives. Our life is eternal and beyond flesh and bones. 

“Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry” (Colossians 3:5 ).

In order to receive salvation, the Christian must demonstrate to God that he can and will properly and obediently direct the powers and blessings he has at his disposal. Then and only then will God grant him the gift of eternal life.

The purpose of human life rests in God’s plan of salvation. God is creating His own kind. He is reproducing Himself through the many men and women that He is now calling to be Christians. When such a person is baptized and receives the gift of the Holy Spirit, he is actually begotten as a son of God, though not yet born.

Through Bible study, daily prayer, and the experiences and trials of life, the Christian grows spiritually. His carnal nature is reformed and shaped into godly character.

Then, at the time of the resurrection, the Christian is instantaneously CHANGED from mortal to immortal. He is born again. Only this time, he is born into the God Family, and not into a human family. As he was once born in the image of his human parents, he will be born spiritually in the image of his heavenly Father.  Its the same as loving parents want children to love and love them back…...basically.

Shenonymous: “::To what final purpose do you think god did all of this?  Surely this question is not only reasonable but demanded since it is a question that naturally came up.  Surely it is not for humans, for had they never been created, there would be no need for salvation, so if all this is true, then it must be for god that god does all this.  And the implications of that conclusion is truly horrid. ::”

Bravo!  Sorry I was typing elsewhere when you posted.  I do await Tom’s answer to that. :D

Here it is: Isaiah 7:14 says “The Virgin will be with child and will call him Immanuel.” Immanuel means “God With Us.” Yeshua means “God (Yah) Shall Save (Shua).” Isaiah 7:14 seems to specifically suggest that the Virgin will CALL the child Immanuel. Since “God With Us” and “God Shall Save” are not identical names, what do you make of this?

tgambill quote; Jesus came to die on the cross as predicted in 300 scriptures in the old testament.  For one man to fulfill over 300 prophesies, one mathematician calculated one in 83,000,000 chance.  All prophesies were filled exactly with the birth of Jesus.

There is some difference between what you say and what your reference sites say:

From http://www.ucg.org/booklets/jc/prophecy.htm
By some estimates the Old Testament contains 300 prophetic passages that describe who the Messiah is and what He will do.  An estimate is not a definite number.
*****
The chance of only eight of these dozens of prophecies being fulfilled in the life of one man has been estimated at 1 in 10 to the 17th power. That would be 1 chance in 100,000,000,000,000,000 (which is One hundred thousand trillion)
*****
Another site
http://www.eons.com/blogs/entry/1332824-How-Many-Bible-prophecies-Did-Jesus-Fulfill-
says,
By using the modern science of probability in reference to just eight of these prophecies, the chance that any man might have lived to fulfill all eight prophecies is one in 100 trillion!
*****
Then from
http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/luke24.html#27

The Old Testament includes about sixty different prophecies, with more than 300 references, of the coming of the Messiah. It was through the fulfillment of these prophecies that Israel was told she would be able to recognize the true Messiah when He came. 

This is another slightly different claim because references are not prophecies.

Then, Christians must think Jews are ignorant.  For if there were all these realized signs, how could the Jews all not believe?  Why do you think the Jews don’t believe?

How do you account for the discrepancies among all the statisticians?

All these numbers amount to nothing really.  They are all hearsay and spurious reports.  The absolute gullibility of the desperate is astonishing.

It’s all silly.  Look, god needed man so he created himself a creature in his image.

Need:  If you need something, then you lack something—which makes you imperfect.

Why do we go on about such obvious sillyness?

:::“The last to be written was John of patmos 70-90 AD,the Revelation, sorry but you are wrong there. 

In addition, Immanuel means God with us.  Jesus claimed to be God throughout his ministery and in fact was God in human form.::”

Nope, I am not wrong, but I will let you know when I am.  I was speaking as far as those who had “witnessed” Jesus as their messiah…those being the first four gospels that have our supposed witnesses.  As you’ve clearly shown, John wrote about his “revelation” (kinda like Joseph Smith)?...long after the gospels were written.

As far as the “Immanuel meaning “god with us”...which god?  That of the Jews?  Yea, I do think that’s what they meant.  They certainly didn’t mean this Jesus fellow.  But you could always read the Talmud on that one—or discuss it with your local rabbi.

To what final purpose do you think god did all of this?  Surely this question is not only reasonable but demanded since it is a question that naturally came up.  Surely it is not for humans, for had they never been created, there would be no need for salvation, so if all this is true, then it must be for god that god does all this.  And the implications of that conclusion is truly horrid.

No, humans did it to themselves, God offers an out but mankind doesn’t want it obviously.  Anymore control would make mankind a robot and God unjust since we are given rules and free wills to follow with results and judgement based on our decisions.

http://www.annieshomepage.com/fulfillment.html

http://www.ucg.org/booklets/jc/prophecy.htm

http://www.eons.com/blogs/entry/1332824-How-Many-Bible-prophecies-Did-Jesus-Fulfill-

http://www.christiananswers.net/q-eden/edn-r004.html

a list of a few…

http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/messianicprophecies.html

http://bibleprobe.com/300great.htm

http://www.allaboutthejourney.org/prophecy-about-jesus.htm

I’ll stop here as anymore would be futile….

Planning on your creation to die (it’s gotta be planned since the god is omniscient about the past present and future) and saying it is out of love is prrreeetttttyyy weird even for a god.  Good grief.  This is such an evil god you describe.  Are you sure you are not some anti-christ thingy?  I can see why primitive minded blood thirsty human beings might find this god appealing.  Quite ghoulish to make such goulash out of human beings.

tgambill, did you say 300 prophesies in the Scriptures? Please list those or give a site that does (I should not have to look each and everyone up for you, since it is your claim)?  If there are only 299 would that ruin your claim at all?  I am a researcher and scholar so these things are important.  Oh, which mathematician was it that made that calculation?

The last to be written was John of patmos 70-90 AD,the Revelation, sorry but you are wrong there. 

In addition, Immanuel means God with us.  Jesus claimed to be God throughout his ministery and in fact was God in human form. 

i-man’-u-el (`immanu’el): The name occurs but 3 times, twice in the Old Testament (Isa 7:14; 8:8), and once in the New Testament (Mt 1:23). It is a Hebrew word signifying “God is with us.” The form “Emmanuel” appears in Septuagint (Emmanouel).

God became man for many reasons.  And so God in his full glory and spiritual form could not reconcile with man until he became man.  He [God] knew that according to the Law He had laid down, that man must die because of their sin. He also was well aware that man could not be restored to His Creator until the Law was kept perfectly and sin was done away with. He did not want mankind to die. But to be true to His Law and not be found a liar someone had to die. Someone whose death would cancel the penalty of sin, stop corruption, and make all things new again. So the eternal Word decided to die for His creation as in his human form. But to do this He must become human. And thus 2000 years ago, He came, “born of a woman, born under the Law” (Galatians 4:4). The Word became flesh and became Jesus Christ.

So great was His love for His fallen creation.  He [God] left His glory to come here. And through His perfect life and death on the cross He broke down the wall of separation that our sin had built and reconciled us to Himself; as it is written “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them.” (2 Co. 5:19). Through Jesus Christ, Immanuel, our sins are forgiven and we have fellowship with our Creator again.

Immanuel. In this one name, everything humankind needs and the entire plan of God’s salvation is subsumed. Now, when he returns he is not here to be sacrificed but to bring great Tribulations and judgment. He will not come to bring peace but war.  Says so in the Bible, I didn’t write it.  )