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DIG DIRECTOR

The Rev. Madison Shockley
The Rev. Madison Shockley is a minister of the United Church of Christ in Carlsbad, Calif. and a regular commentator on religion, race, politics and popular culture....










 

Jesus: The Man, the Myth

(Page 2)

The Death of Jesus

The death of the man from Nazareth was historically inconsequential—a crucified Jew in Jerusalem among so many hundreds crucified during the riotous atmosphere that often surrounded the Passover observance. Passover, a celebration of Jewish freedom, was always an anxious time under Rome’s oppressive occupation. The historical fact is that Jesus was crucified by the Roman Empire. The charge was political sedition, considered a capital crime. For being known as the “King of the Jews” he was crucified by Rome because assuming such a title challenged the sovereignty of the Caesar. The trial scenes recorded in the Gospels were a fiction devised by the early Christian writers to put blame for Jesus’ death on Jewish leadership and deflect responsibility from Roman officials. They did this so that the new religion could survive in a hostile Roman Empire. Not only do they deny any Roman responsibility for the crucifixion, the Gospel of Matthew has a Roman centurion confess, “Truly this man was God’s Son!” (27:54).

The Resurrection

Was the resurrection a historical event? No. It is a thoroughly theological concept. We learn a lot from the resurrection literature of the early Christian writers. Most of the resurrection stories find the disciples either hiding in fearful seclusion or having returned to their former lives (mostly as fishermen). So why was resurrection necessary?

With his death, his message, his meaning and his mission were now left to others to remember, interpret and continue. It all would have been so simple if Jesus had just written his sermons down. The most likely explanation as to why Jesus didn’t write his own Gospel is that Jesus was probably illiterate. Early Christian communities viewed themselves as authentically representing the words, ministry and mission of Jesus. The only way they could do this was if Jesus were still alive. So, they resurrected him.

The Gospels

But Jesus’ story proved quite malleable in the hands of the skilled editors who would later tell his story. Initially, a wide variety of such remembrances, interpretations and extrapolations emerged from the early Christian communities that had known the historical Jesus. This group—its members generally were known as “the disciples”—was soon distilled into an authoritative clique that the early church came to revere as “the Apostles.” Paul is the only apostle from whom we have authentic written product. However, he, by his own admission, was a lesser apostle because he never knew the historical Jesus but rather was commissioned as an apostle (“as one untimely born”) by the “risen” Jesus.

Though the documents that ultimately became the four Gospels bear the names of two apostles (Matthew and John) and two alleged companions (Mark, supposedly a friend of Peter, and someone named Luke, supposedly a friend of Paul—though the only evidence for this is “Luke” himself), they are all anonymous. These characterizations were added in the Second Century in order to add authority to the Gospels. As literary production proliferated, the early church began to list (canonize) certain documents as useful and all others were deemed heretical. It wasn’t until the Fourth Century that the Christian “canon” was closed.

However, all of the Gospels (in their final form) and Paul refer to Jesus as far more than a Jewish sage, wisdom prophet and sometime healer and exorcist. But it is exactly this “more” that reveals the fluid treatment that the historical Jesus received at the hands of his biographers. It seems that they mapped his footsteps rather than followed them. Each created the Jesus he needed for his constituency. Matthew mapped a very Jewish Jesus for his Jewish Christian community. Mark mapped a martyr Jesus to encourage his besieged community facing the destruction of the Temple and the Jewish war with Rome. Luke mapped a Holy Spirit that inhabited Jesus to do the work of God and inhabited his church to be the embodiment of the divine presence. John mapped a cosmic Jesus from the beginning of time to the end of eternity. All of this is evidence that the decades separating these writings from the life of Jesus were filled with theological imagination. It wasn’t until the authority of the first Christian emperor, Constantine, combined with a nascent church bureaucracy that alternative interpretations of Jesus were quashed. Only then would the Christian Church (big C) emerge as an international operation of culture and power with Jesus (the) Christ as its imperial head and the bishop of Rome as his vicar.

So Who Is Jesus Today?

Liberation theology is a branch of Christian theology that understands God to be primarily at work in the world for the liberation of the oppressed. Drawing from the story of the Israelite Exodus (Exodus 3:16), the Israelite prophetic tradition and the teachings and preaching of Jesus, liberation theologians see a clear and consistent “preferential option for the poor” (a phrase borrowed from the U.S. Council of Catholic Bishops’ campaign for human development). Liberation theology identifies Jesus with the marginalized in every society, whether they be peasants in Latin America, African Americans in the United States or gays and lesbians everywhere. So, for black liberation theology Jesus is poor and black. When James Cone declared in 1969 that “Jesus is black” he caused no little controversy in religious circles. The claim by black theology that “Jesus is black” (note the present tense) had both theological and racial implications. First it meant that Jesus was not white. Jesus could not be white because whites were the embodiment of black oppression in America. Theologically, the claim meant that the Eurocentric faith produced by imperialistic Christianity was a gross distortion of the original Jesus movement. This distorted theology produced icons and images of a white-skinned, blond-haired and blue-eyed Jesus totally unreflective of the Palestinian peasant named Jesus, who lived at the nexus of the African and Asian continents. The assertion that Jesus was not white sent a shudder through a mainstream Christianity that was suddenly forced to confront its own racism and examine its version of Christianity, which was little more than a baptized Western culture. This same Christianity has not hesitated to traffic in slavery or condemn the Third World to colonial subservience.

The claim that Jesus is black, or gay, or a woman, or a peasant, is not an assertion about Jesus’ personal identity. It is more a way of making demonstrably clear what the central focus of Jesus’ ministry would be today. A popular phrasing of this approach simply asks, “What would Jesus do?” Liberation theology sees Jesus engaged in a ministry outside the four walls of the church and less engaged in a priestly ministry of liturgy and incense.

Conversely, the traditional mainline churches continue to hold themselves out as the embodiment of the continuing presence of Jesus—whether the Roman pontiff as the vicar of Christ, or the Anglican, Lutheran and Methodist claims of apostolic succession (for their bishops) or the Protestant focus on the local gathering of Christians in the church (derived from the Greek ekklesia) as the “body of Christ.”


The “Jesus movement” (i.e. those who followed Jesus prior to a formal church evolving) was left leaderless and without direction. The anticipation of Jesus’ death in the Gospels benefited from their hindsight of knowing how the story ended. But for the original disciples Jesus’ death was probably a sudden and unexpected occurrence.

Continued: Conclusion

 

Dig last updated on Dec. 20, 2005


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Dig Director's Blog

Apr. 12, 2006

Hallelujah! Easter is almost here. Aren’t you glad? What’s that low sigh I hear? Ohhhhh that’s right, you’re one of those progressive Christians. Easter is probably the most conflicted time of the year among progressive churches, even more so than Christmas. Even a progressive Christian can reasonably assert that Jesus was really born, even as the debate goes on among others about how he was born. But this is not so with Easter. Either he was resurrected or he was not. And when we say he was not, then someone somewhere will quote I Corinthians 15:12 to us, “Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead?”

- - -
Dec. 22, 2005

Shockley addresses reader comments regarding the historical Jesus and representations of “the Christ.”

- - -
Dec. 21, 2005

The culture wars have clearly gotten out of hand when the front line is Christmas.

- - -
 
 
 

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By christian96, March 31, 2009 at 12:06 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous——We are all searching for truth or we
wouldn’t be on this site having discussions.  Don’t
read things into my comments.  I didn’t say “Jesus
talks to me directly.”  I said I am proud to respresent the truths I have learned from Jesus while
studying his teachings.  From 32 years of indepth
study, I am positive that Jesus was the Son of God,
came to earth to defeat Satan, give us guidelines for
which to live our lives, and demonstrated that we can
overcome death.  I have no fear of dying.  Therefore,
I can boldly express the truths taught by Jesus without worrying what anyone thinks or does.  There
are designs by God that can be understood.  Scientists have made many discoveries over the past
decades.  If you look at the way humans have been
designed you can discover a significant truth which
one day will lead us to world peace.  Humans are
designed to be infants before they become adults.
That is a significant design because, as infants,
humans are helpless.  In fact, the human infant is
helpless longer than any other animal species.  Since
the human infant is helpless, it must depend upon
someone else to provide it’s survival conditions (food, water, safety, language, etc.).  So just by
the way we are designed, humans depend upon one
another.  As we become adults, we like to think we are independent but we aren’t.  We still depend upon
others to provide our food, water, safety, language,
entertainment, etc.)  After Cain killed his brother,
he ask God, “Am I my brother’s Keeper?”  The answer
is a resounding YES!  We are each others brothers and
sisters keepers.  Then, why do we destroy one another?  1st John 3:12 gives us the answer, “Cain,
WHO WAS OF THAT WICKED ONE, slew his brother!”  The
serpent is that wicked one, also known as Lucifer,
Satan, Dragon, etc.  As I said in my previous post,
Satan influenced Eve to disobey the commandments of
God.  Satan did this through influencing the cognitions of Eve.  Satan influenced 1/3 of the angels to follow him in his rebellion.  They go about
seeking to destroy people by influencing their cognitions.  Jesus taught us that everyday our
cognitions will be attacked by evil forces.  It is
our responsibility to understand when our thoughts
are constructive or destructive.

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By Shenonymous, March 31, 2009 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

1 of 2
It is not my intent here to discuss the verity of the basis of one’s belief or their depth and sincerity.  Although I voiced my atheism long ago and have never kept that a secret, it is my personal belief and I do not impose it on others.  I would have a civil argument, even a passionate one, if someone would so engage, but I do not attack others for their beliefs.  It is the ideas that come into question, nothing more!  I might request evidence or point out problems of logic that I have found compelling to justify my perspective, and rightfully I may express those opinions. However, others may not have come to the same conclusions.  I am a humanist atheist and believe in the intrinsic value of human life.  The are many roads to Rome as the saying goes, meaning there are many paths individuals may take, and although I do not agree with everything he said, Aristotle said that every man has a little bit of the truth.  From my experiences, I think he was right.  The skill then is to discover what is that truth or whether what is offered is indeed the truth.

I have encountered many Christians, Jews, not so many Muslims but that is the culture I live in.  Among those I have found good, caring people worthy of being called human.  Also, I know people of other persuasions, Hindus, Buddhists, and such who also have a healthy view of others and the world.  There is no animosity in them and they carry on their lives in a peaceful and happy manner.  Living is hostile enough on a planet that is indifferent to all of life.  It is the world as we humans craft it and how we relate to one another that makes all the difference.

There is never any call for an attack such as lastdaywatchers mounted against me. Usually I react in a highly fierce manner to show metaphorically speaking that one does not wake a sleeping dragon.

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By Shenonymous, March 31, 2009 at 10:10 am Link to this comment

2 of 2
I think it is the height of conceit for a human to say he speaks for a God.  It insinuates megalomania to think one “speaks” for anyone let alone Jesus Christ.  Those who think God speaks to them, such as did George Bush, brings to this earth death and destruction, and this he wrought on the Iraqi people.  Keeping things clear and separate, that is not to say that Saddam Hussein was not an evil man, but the million or so human beings that paid the price with their lives for the evil done by those two men, is that what Christianity or Islam is worth?  Any humility claimed is really self-honoring.  For what makes a man humble?  Self-aggrandizing deception is often occasioned by what is thought to be good intentions.

A rigorous study of one’s religion and its guiding dogmas that are recorded in written texts can yield more truth than the trooth one goes about believing from reading with interpretation from one’s own singular resource.  Rigor means exhaustive dispensing with the fear to find out contraries or contradictions for what was once believed.  That is the meaning of courage.  To face the truth.

Questions I posed about admitted promiscuity shined the light on what is thought excusable to the innocence of youth but in reality is not when faithfulness is the measure of good.  The meaning and value of faithfulness is lost and while recoverable at maturity lack of inquiry about its true value relegates its significance to trooth.  Not one shred is permitted on the bone when measures of good and the notion of God are the stakes.

One cannot know what is a God’s design.  One can only “think” it is known.  Only honesty to oneself can admit that.  There are superabundant arguments reality is this or that proposed by a superabundant number of individuals who “think” they know.  From all of that, how is one to establish reality?  If we are interested, we have to set some rules, some parameters of what will be accepted as the truth, not the trooth! Trooth is what one man or woman perceives as the truth but cannot verify it.  It is reduced to opinion and no one’s opinion has more weight than another’s.  Merit comes only through justification.

I feel certain there is more to be talked about here if there is any inclination.  I prefer charged emotion be kept at a minimum and calm investigative discussion the fare.  But do not forget the dragon.

tgambill’s comments are much appreciated as always, and always understood to be well intended.  While he, and Annie, and I have differences of opinions about the nature of the world, and have become spirited many times, it was always with respect.  I believe we demonstrate through our dialogue that we are caring human beings about the state of the world.

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By tgambill, March 30, 2009 at 11:06 pm Link to this comment

“Shenonymous shut your fucking month, you sound just like that God Dammed bitch who followed Apostle Paul around pretending to be a believer but was full of the devil !!!!”

*******LDW, its Satanist like you that will spend an eternity in Hell, burning and being tormented for your lying and blastphemous ways, claiming to be a Christian; yet having a demon inside your body telling your soul what to do.  Shenonymous has more brains and more class than you will ever have in your lifetime.  You pretend to be “Christian” luciferian Mason like yourself, present yourself the way you do in order to discredit the true Christian belief.  I know your game.  I call you on it and expose you for who you really are and I bet you are maybe a member of the Scottish rite, or maybe a new ager who plays hide the sausage with your Calif. Bohemian Grove playmates or you wear the black robe and head gear giving out rituals and drinking blood in skulls…......how about that.  Something tells me that you might know the name of Vetis, a demon of hell who corrupts and tempts the holy. hmmmmm, I wonder.

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By christian96, March 30, 2009 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous——-I do believe I speak for Jesus Christ
and humbly consider it an honor.  Your self-defense
of adultery and fornication seem to indicate you are
involved in one and/or both.  Perhaps, you should
consider forgetting about yourself and consider the
suffering(physical, social, emotional, and spiritual)
your selfishness has reaped upon others.  God’s design of humans makes us depend upon one another for
survival not “evolution of cognition.”  If it was
“evolution of cognition” we wouldn’t be destroying
one another.  However, “cognition” is related to the
reason we destroy one another.  Where do thoughts
come from?  Where do interpretations of experiences
come from?  You gather the 4 leading experts on cognitions and I will join them in a debate on TV
and we will see who knows more about cognitions!  I
like that idea!  Sort of reminds me of Elijah confronting the false prophets in the Bible.
You are correct about selfishness contributing to the
destruction of families, which is probably the main
reason Jesus taught us to DENY OURSELVES AND SERVE
OTHERS.
My sexual exploits in my younger years began more
as curiosity than a “natural drive.”  Then, once I
began, I got hooked on the pleasure.  I believe sex
is more learned than a “natural drive.”  Stop having
sex for a month, including masturbation, and see what
happens to the “natural drive!”  By the way, my 1948
dictionary defines masturbation as “self pollution.”
I am not aware of the ideas of the women I had sex
with.  We didn’t discuss “nature versus nuture.”
I know, at the time, it was important for me to make
the experience very pleasurable to the women.  Now,
I realize the pleasure only made them want to do it
again.  If I could go back and live my life again,
knowing what I know now, I would have practiced
celibacy until I got married.  Procreation is better
served through following God’s plan(celibacy until
married).
You are out of line comparing the behaviors of humans
to the behaviors of other animals.  What other animal
has accomplished the advancements of humans?  NONE!
Because they don’t possess the cognitive abilities
of humans.  What was the first attempt of Satan?
To influence the cognitive abilities of Eve.  Satan
even tried unsuccessfully to influence the cognitions
of Jesus.  Satan’s tactics haven’t changed down through the years.  He still destroys people through
their cognitions but his reign is about to come to
an end AND HE KNOWS IT(Revelation 12:12).

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By christian96, March 30, 2009 at 8:45 pm Link to this comment

Annie Reitano—-For one, you have no idea how primative people lived unless you are older than
I think.  My perceptions of human attitudes were
first formed while studying Child Development and
Counseling.  Later, when I began to read the Bible
it was amazing to me how much that I learned in
graduate school already existed in the teachings of
Jesus.  I have related on other posts my reasons for
believing Jesus to have been the Son of God.  Because
of space I won’t go into that again.  I am presently
writing a book for teen-agers about how the Bible
relates to their everyday lives.  It contains science
not only opinions.  You will just have to wait until
it is published.  I don’t know anything about you
personally but I do know the Bible talks about people
either being guided by the Holy Spirit or the Spirit
of Antichrist.  It sounds to me that your thoughts
are being guided by the Spirit of Antichrist.  Where
is your compassion for broken families and the millions of children suffering because their parents
are engaged in sexual behaviors that are tearing the
families apart?

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By Annie Reitano, March 30, 2009 at 7:16 pm Link to this comment

Oh the story of the devil girl.  Did you know that Paul never even knew of Jesus Christ?  Never saw him personally and only wrote about him some 40-70 years after the supposed ascension.  Check your history.

But there you have it!  You can rest easy.  I do not believe in gods, monsters, demons, devils, unicorns, leprechauns, nor soothsaying, clairvoyance, tarot card readers, palm readers, etc.  I am a SKEPTIC.  I must see clear-cut evidence of something to believe in it.  Relax with the scripture quoting because it’s likely I will wrap you up in your own words….just a fair warning.

But at least you can relax knowing that the priests, preachers and other zealots are not out with their hatchets and impaling devices ready to cast the spirits out of me or else.  :D

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By lastdaywatchers, March 30, 2009 at 1:26 pm Link to this comment

“And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met   us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying”

“The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.”

“And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.”

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By Annie Reitano, March 30, 2009 at 1:21 pm Link to this comment

haha LDW:  You know the saying,  “The higher the monkey climbs…”  haha Jesus freaks always show their hinies in the end. wink

Shenon,

You beat me to it, and said it better than I could anyway.  Still, out of sheer need, I will add my two cents.

Christian,

Everything that you wrote about sex, greed and the “sins of the flesh”, etc, all have to do with your perception.  Full stop.  It is all relative to what you’ve learned and what you believe.  It is your own concept.  In more primitive societies marriage isn’t even a tradition much less a concept.

You have based all that you are by nature into a guilt box, and you have named it “god”—or “Jesus” because that is where your faith is.

You mentioned that Jesus wanted us to love one another…well, don’t forget. He also asked that your slaves be good to you and you to them…just don’t put their eye out. 

If you need to believe the happy singy-songy parts of the Bible to salve senseless guilt, that’s one thing.  But if you take the Bible as a whole, then you must accept that Jesus kills children (as he claims to be YHWH) and he also drowns those whose nationality he doesn’t like, etc.  Accept all or accept none.  But making your own truth up just isn’t wise in a world where so many have been made that there are wars in the streets of Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia, etc…about this very nonsense.

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By Shenonymous, March 30, 2009 at 11:11 am Link to this comment

Well, lastdaywatcher, aren’t you such the f*cking Christian with a f*cking month? What the f*ck is a f*cking month?  You are f*cking mentally ill!  Obviously you cannot tell which side of your ass to speak out of.  The one at the end of your f*cking bowels, or the one on your f*cking face!  Don’t mess with me you f*cking asshole!  Go f*ck yourself!

Now, maybe the rest of us can have a decent discussion.

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By lastdaywatchers, March 30, 2009 at 10:55 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous shut your fucking month, you sound just like that God Dammed bitch who followed Apostle Paul around pretending to be a believer but was full of the devil !!!!

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By Shenonymous, March 30, 2009 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

1 of 2
Interesting christian96 that you select to “speak” for God and what God wants.  Have you been privileged? I respond to your idea about the need to repent due to adultery and fornication.  Everyone could write a book on greed!  Selfishness has to do with natural egoism that societies overcame through the evolution of cognition for what would “benefit” the community more than the individual.  What we see today, is a residual of pre-humanoid animalistic behavior.  As a psychologist you obviously accept the idea of a psyche, emotionally charged mental activity, feelings.  In that capacity you also learn to absorb all kinds of mental problems people experience then you in turn interpret those feelings, always based on your own learnings.  But how you come to believe what you do, which cannot help but spill over into how you view others and the world, has been your own personal journey and conclusions.  They may not be The Truth, but rather is your trooth.  It might be fruitful for yourself to consider that.

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By Shenonymous, March 30, 2009 at 9:30 am Link to this comment

2 of 2
While it might make for a better life for certain children who suffers because of the behaviors of their parents, that in itself is not an argument that is why a deity wants all humans to repent, which is part of your hypothesis.  It is not simply adultery that breaks up marriages, it is more selfishness and self-interests that gives weight to faithlessness.  People are not taught by social mores that faithfulness is beneficial to human beings, hence it is not taught within family structures.  You yourself admits to flinging your penis around with many women.  Was that something you learned from your family or was it simply a natural drive?  What about the feelings of the women you had sex with?  Were they as free with their sex as you?  Sex is an enjoyable action of the human being, but not strictly for humans, all animals that are not asexual find a pleasure in sex (i.e., snails and other organisms replicate unitarily, without sex).  By pleasure I mean, sex drive.  Humans put the coloration of pleasure on the natural drive which is to procreate.  Humans also found it more propitious for the health of the community to impose the morality of single partners (that is, monogamy) for cognitive humans, the human with a thinking and discerning brain.  In animals that do not reflect, monogamy occurs occasionally but predominantly not.  Monogamy among non-humans is for the sole purpose of raising healthy young.  The idea that sex is meant to draw couples together is a fiction.  It is the morality of marriage and by reason of the health of the community that the idea (morality) came into being.  Fornication is not spreading like wildfire, it was a general, and rampant practice among human beings since time began and for the sole purpose of procreation, to have offspring.  Cave dwellers did not get married!  Before the institution of marriage happened, there was the notion of common law coupling which gives testimony of conventionality.  There is a history of marriages that are decreed by public authorities, tribal leaders for the security and enlargement of the tribe from more aggressive tribes with the idea that offspring, children, would then become the “property” of the two factions lessening the desire for combat and conquest.  Territoriality is an instinctual thing for if it were not, man would have ceased or never even began to war with each other.  The animalistic impulse has been overcome by the cognitive beast (humans) just as the society recognized the benefit of marriage that involved not only procreation but civil, political, an property rights of wives, who indeed were considered chattel, read like cattle! (and still are in societies today! for instance within Hindu and Islamic societies, etc.).  Also the idea of distinctive citizenship, and all the rights thereby, was not a minor consideration. The codification or standardization of marriage became more firm in the 19th and early 20th centuries. These policies invigorated the evolved Christian ideal of monogamous marriage associating it with what is called “a cherished realm of privacy” and what philosopher Michel Foucault called bio-power.  If anything can be called a wildfire, the Christian agencies promoted such an incendiary standard for men and women!  This insured the “family” structure and furthered the population of the Christian community.  Again a “tribal” impulse.  The idea of “mutual” consent is really a relatively social modern (not historical, in other words), idea.  Most ‘ethnic’ marriages are arranged.  When societies are more a mixed ethnic bag, such as America’s, independency of intent for couples to marry increased.  Not that marriage for love has not occurred throughout history.  However history is also replete with horror stories of prevented marriages (Romeo and Juliet is such a descriptive tale).

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By christian96, March 30, 2009 at 7:46 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous—-God wants people to repent to straighten out the many problems presently plaguing
our planet:  (1) Adultery is breaking up marriages
and making children’s lives miserable, (2) Fornication is spreading diseases like wildfire.
One important reason to avoid fornication is the
experiences with many partners.  For example, in
my past, I had many experiences with women.  I know
that some were more enjoyable than others.  I am
now single.  I know if married I would probably
be comparing my intamacy with my wife with past
experiences with women.  If I hadn’t had the previous experiences, I wouldn’t be making the
comparisons.  Sex is meant to draw a married couple
closer together as one family unit to raise children
within that unit which gives the children love, trust, and confidence so the children can grow
successfully in life, especially school.  I served
as a School Psychologist.  I saw children suffering
daily because of the behaviors of their parents.
This shouldn’t be so. (3) GREED—-I could write a
whole book on why God wants people to repent from
greed. (4) selfishness——how many problems exist in
the world because people think about themselves
instead of others?  NUMEROUS!  That’s why Jesus said
for us to deny self and love and serve others.

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By Shenonymous, March 29, 2009 at 11:59 pm Link to this comment

oops, my apologies, I was really sleepy when I was able to read this forum’s latest posts and tried to respond and I see I didn’t finish a sentence.  Yikes.  This is the sentence Holy causes especially involve charity towards and self-denial for the benefit of others and this provides the platform for the .  Here it is in a ‘finished’ form” Holy causes especially involve charity towards and self-denial for the benefit of others and this provides the platform for the new relocated self-abhorring member to ‘feel good’ about their self.

Seems like this video tgambill has linked for us has opened up the topic and more discussion is in order. Good night for me too for now.

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By Shenonymous, March 29, 2009 at 11:39 pm Link to this comment

Nice to see everyone is still alive and well.  I’ve been swamped with life.  I read your posts tgambill.  And Annie’s and xian96’s. The people on the video are insane, it is mass hysteria.  But not unlike the 70s flowerpeople.  Seems to be a similar mentality. There is what is called an interchangeability of mass movements.  Instead of MaryJane, it’s Jesus. When the time is positively charged for people who are mentally deficient and ready for a movement they will fall into any movement.  They become zealots.  Fanatical belief in a “holy” cause is substantially a lost faith in ourselves, this can be temporary, or not so temporary.  For some it becomes a lifetime occupation.  The conceit of the selfless, even those who perfect the greatest humbleness, is boundless. Holy causes especially involve charity towards and self-denial for the benefit of others and this provides the platform for the .

As usual, I agree with Annie’s assessments. But beyond that I think this set of “freaks” falls into what Eric Hoffer of the early 50s said about the “True Believers,” in particular those who become involved with a “movement.”  As Annie mentions, low self-esteem is part of the problem.  Because they are desperately looking for inclusion, those with low self-esteem become easy prey to the fanatical.  The youtube group is quite a bit more hedonistic than the usual cult variety.  This leads me to believe this is a group of misfits who have an adolescent mentality.  Individually they are unsatisfied with their “normal” peer groups.  Even the older subscriber obviously has no sense of fulfillment and seeks the comfort of a fictitious caregiver, i.e., a savior, whether that is a Jesus or some other designated deity, i.e., Allah via Islamic self-sacrifices, or a Jim Jones.  The most ferocious fanatics are those who more than ostensibly lost their faith in themselves through inherent defects or from outside causes coming to feel ineffectual in controlling either their own lives or the world perceived as needing repair.  This often finds a residence within a holy cause as holy causes have a history of housing virtues and disposing vices. 

By their own words they have the highest desire to escape self for which they have a revulsion and seek solace in a fictitious world.  Their insipid vocabulary and Jesus claptrap seems disingenuous when mixed with the obscure, senseless, and unintelligible self-deprecation.

The idea that satan must receive God’s permission to do anything is ludicrous.  The actions of the God of the Revelations is also fatuous and here is why:  What kind of a God would want his “perfect” creations to repent?  What is it about repenting that gives a God pleasure, for it would have to be that and not be misery!?  No one would say that a God wishes misery for himself!

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By Annie Reitano, March 29, 2009 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

Hi again, christian!

I really cannot blame you at all for having questions regarding the Old Testament which was derived from the Jewish Tanakh.  It really is a horror story with a little porn thrown in if you read it from Genesis to Malachi.

It is important to note, however, that supposedly Jesus claimed that he was the “Father” more than just once.  In the gospel of John chapter one it says: “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word WAS God.  And the Word came and dwelt amongst men in the flesh..”, etc.  Clearly, “John” was talking about YHWH and Jesus being one and the same.  Yet if you compare the two, they are much more dissimilar than similar.

The Bible as a divinely inspired work of any deity has to be called into question based on the above facts alone.

Good night, friends!

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By christian96, March 29, 2009 at 9:20 pm Link to this comment

Annie Reitano—-You will have to read my response
following page 2.  For some reason it didn’t show
up on this page.  To add to my comments, when I first
read Job, I actually thought God didn’t inspire this
story.  Since Satan has always wanted to be God, I
thought the story must have been inspired by Satan.
There are so many questions I have about the “Old
Testament” that I couldn’t begin to list them here.
The New Testament is more rational and appeals to my
intellect.  The New Testament gives us more insight
into the spiritual world and the wiles of Satan.  One
thing is for sure.  Satans hates and wants to destroy
and does it in many ways.

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By christian96, March 29, 2009 at 9:10 pm Link to this comment

Annie Reitano—-I know what you mean.  When I first
read the book of Job, I thought, “This couldn’t be
the all loving God to allow Satan to committ so much
misery in Job’s life.  It read more like a big ball
game between God and Satan using people as their
players.  But, later, I read that we are not to judge
God because his mind is much greater than the human
mind.  I’m not judging him/her/it but I have been
given intelligence and with that intelligence I try
to understand what I read in the Bible.  Perhaps,
even though death and suffering are traumatic to us
they are not to God.  To be absent from the body is
to be present with the Lord.  For some perhaps death
is a blessing.  Everyone wants to get to Heaven but
no one wants to die to get there!  As for the starving children around the world I am not so sure
that it is not our fault instead of God.  We have the
tools, knowledge, transportation and other resources
to help these people but we don’t.  Why?  Probably,
because there is no MONEY to be made from doing so.
The money is there if the various nations would quit
spending it on weapons and start spending it on
farming equipment and technology.  By the way, according to Isaiah 2:4 that will happen someday.  We
will beat our weapons into plowshares.  It couldn’t
be soon enough for me.

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By Annie Reitano, March 29, 2009 at 8:54 pm Link to this comment

Hi tom! 

*****annie, they don’t believe the same way.  they believe opposite and they are following the lead of the NWO for mind control and manipulation.  Its control so that they will obey man rather than Gods principles.

There are only two forces, good and evil and the good comes from God and in his human incarnate form Jesus and spiritually the Holy Spirit.****

Tom, everyone says that this or that xian is wrong because they don’t believe the same exact way.  It has always been that way.  Thus, the Reformation and other such atrocities.

As far as following the principals of men, what do you think religious people do who are following the Bible?  Just because someone said “god told me to tell you…”—deosn’t make them honest nor their words true, does it?  Because if it does, we may as well believe everything the government says.  It would be no more foolish than to believe a book that has been written and re-written, interpreted and re-interpreted by those who would WANT TO CONTROL THE MINDS OF MEN. (Caps for emphasis, not yelling). 

And there you are, Tom, believing the words of primitive men who are controlling your mind.  “The end is near” has been an age old adage since Bible days.  Everyone believes they are living or have lived in the “end of times”.  Here is a fact:  evil does exist and has existed always—just as good has.  We are from animals.  What else can be expected?  We have to use all the will we have just to be civil to our neighbours who are different than us—if we will all ever be able to do that at all remains to be seen, though I doubt it.  We are territorial.  We came from animals..always has been, and always will be a very difficult world to live in.  Revelation said absolutely nothing new to or about the people who first translated it.
It’s main theme is “the end is near and it looks like this”...  Then it gets into mythological symbolism that, while fascinating, is just that.  Read up on Perseus.  You will find striking similarities.

Good to see you as always. smile

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By Annie Reitano, March 29, 2009 at 8:43 pm Link to this comment

By christian96, March 29 at 5:26 pm #


Hi! And thank you for responding to my post.  Yes, I have read the book of Job many times.  What I find most daunting about that book is that God supposedly said that Satan could destroy Job, his faithful servant “without cause”.  In other words…God took everything from his servant of whom no other was as faithful just to “dance with the devil?” 

This is a damning confession. In a court of law, this would be enough to convict God of the highest reckless crimes against humanity. In addition to ruining Job’s livelihood and inflicting him with a debilitating illness, God murdered his 10 children and his servants—“without cause.”
“And the Lord said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil? and still he holdeth fast his integrity, although thou movedst me against him, to destroy him without cause.” (Job 2:3)

“I wanted to see how far a man would bend before breaking.”

We really do need to question a god who creates mankind (in his image), and then blames them for his own mistakes.  If he didn’t know ahead of time that man would “fall” prey to the talking snake, where is the omnibenevolence?

If God is causing more damage now in the times of Revelation as you stated, how can you call him “good”?  Starving children who have done nothing wrong in the conscience sense is an evil act.  You wouldn’t do it, I am sure.  So, I challenge you to hold your god to higher morals than that of your own.

Thanks again. smile

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By christian96, March 29, 2009 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment

Tgambill——Some of us will be fine once we get
through the tribulation and the days of restoration
are here.  I believe part of the restoration will be
a return to the Jewish Sabbath and keeping of the
festivals instead of Christmas and Easter.  As you
probably already know, the word “Easter” is only
used once in the Bible and it was a mistranslation.
The word should have been “Pascal” which means the
Passover.  When I was in Jerusalem in 1999, I attended Yom Kippur with a Messianic Congregation
(Jews and Gentiles) and enjoyed it very much.  Since
getting back to America I have been trying to attend
Messianic Churches as much as possible.  I presently
attend one here in Florida.

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By tgambill, March 29, 2009 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment

Christian96, you are, as you already know, right on track exactly. You said it better than I.

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By tgambill, March 29, 2009 at 5:46 pm Link to this comment

“Jesus Camp!  Great.  Tom, these are just emotionally charged people who believe the same basic principals as you.”

******annie, they don’t believe the same way.  they believe opposite and they are following the lead of the NWO for mind control and manipulation.  Its control so that they will obey man rather than Gods principles.

There are only two forces, good and evil and the good comes from God and in his human incarnate form Jesus and spiritually the Holy Spirit.

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By christian96, March 29, 2009 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment

Annie Reitano——If you read the book of Job you
will discover that Satan can do nothing without
the permission of God.  Why is God allowing Satan
to create so much misery on earth now?  The book
of Revelation tells us that God is making peoples
lives miserable trying to get them to repent and
following his directions.  Sadly, Revelation says
that even though peoples lives are made miserable
they still refuse to repent.  Instead they set
themselves up as God and try to make decisions about
what is right and wrong.  It is sad to see so many
familes, especially children starving around the
world while people waste money on alcohol, drugs,
gambling, etc.

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By Annie Reitano, March 29, 2009 at 1:23 pm Link to this comment

Jesus Camp!  Great.  Tom, these are just emotionally charged people who believe the same basic principals as you.  They are just more fanatical and emotional than you are. For your part, my guess is that you believe that Jesus CAN do these things through people, but that he doesn’t so it must be the devil.  Why? 

It’s just an emotional charge from a bunch of people with low self-esteem.  Most people need something to believe in that makes them stand out and appear special.  That’s what is going on in the movie “Jesus Camp” and in this video. 

Jesus Freaks Gone Wild. :D   It’s really no different than “College Girls Gone Wild” other than the emotional path they take.  In this case it’s Jesus loves me more than you.  In the latter case it’s “I am the best looking!  Come and see my boobies and drool over me.

Esteem.  Low self esteem.

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By Tom gambill, March 27, 2009 at 10:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0mBClIUeJc&feature=email

Shenom, the internet will close when this thing hits.  relative to your stated views on christianity and such, the above would cause me to have to be on more your side than these peoples side.  You are true to your beliefs as I can’t judge them, but these people pushing this belief of a false Christianity is pure 100% evil coming from Satan himself.  I would stand with you against these people without a moments thought. Jesus is the way and the life, but these people worship Satan without the candles and rituals.  They are leading millions from the truth to pure destruction.

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By tgambill, March 11, 2009 at 7:41 am Link to this comment

shenom,

I have from credible sources that there are 350,000 Highly trained and equipped Mexican troops in Mexico prepared to assault the US along 6 to 9 fronts along the Texas, Az, New Mexico and Calif borders.  They are backed by Chinese and Russian troops confirmed in Mexico to follow up.  The UN troops are already here as are Russian special forces inside the US and on the Canadian border. 

The drug wars are a smokescreen to cover the deployment of the Mexican forces and to justify the incursions and declaration of Martial law. 


The Disappeared in Mexico

By Monica Campbell and María Salazar

In Mexico, seven reporters have vanished in three years. Many had investigated links between public officials and drug traffickers. Are the crime groups changing tactics, or is a new type of perpetrator at work?

http://cpj.org/reports/2008/09/mexico-08.php

Attacks on the Press in 2008: Mexico

Powerful drug cartels and escalating violence made journalists in Mexico more vulnerable to attack than ever before. The dangerous climate was compounded by a pervasive culture of impunity. Most crimes against the press remained unsolved as Mexican law enforcement agencies, awash in corruption, did not aggressively investigate attacks. With no guarantee of safety, reporters increasingly turned to self-censorship to protect themselves. CPJ research showed that 24 journalists had been killed since 2000, at least eight in direct reprisal for their work. In addition, seven journalists had disappeared since 2005.


Violence related to organized criminal groups and their drug smuggling businesses increased markedly in the past three years, despite a decision by President Felipe Calderón to deploy more than 25,000 troops and federal police to fight crime. Mexican drug cartels, including the Gulf and Sinaloa cartels and numerous splinter groups, eclipsed Colombia’s gangs and claimed significant control over key U.S.-bound smuggling routes.

http://www.cpj.org/2009/02/attacks-on-the-press-in-2008-mexico.php

________________________

This is a CIA and Mossad operation to start the justification for declaring martial law in the US following Mexico.  The CIA is setting up a crime wave in the US using MS-13 and other Mexican Mafia gangs in over 3,500 cities after the next 911 soon to precede this.  I received information from a Gangster Disciple that stated they were appoached to join this crime spree but declined to participate.  The CIA is setting this up to drive Americans to accept martial law for their own protection and accept the enforcement of the UN that are already here…...

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By Shenonymous, March 11, 2009 at 2:46 am Link to this comment

tgambill, good morning…the following site is from the Free Press International
http://www.freepressinternational.com/2009/03/ciudad-juarez-mexico-under-martial-law/
This supports your report! 

There are a lot of blogspots talking about it and I think there must be something to it, but I think it is the deployment to the border news that started the martial law business to get started.  Also we know that Fox leans toward the sensational often without substance, only flagrant headlines.  I think it is best to wait and see what happens.  There are responsible journalists who can get down there to see what is happening.  item: Feb 26 (Reuters) to control the drug traffic along with troops from the US, not China or Russia.

http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSN26270458

also an update same day from Reuters
http://www.reuters.com/article/bondsNews/idUSN2627045820090227
which added quotes from the Mexican President.
Bloggers however tend to exaggerate everything.  It is only the ones with good self-control who want the truth and not to simply make a hit and run comment that sometimes becomes worthwhile to read.

Also I’ve noticed that a good percentage of bloggers who are commenting on American politics, religion, anything, are from other countries and some are intending to denigrate the USA and try to instigate unrest. 

I don’t think Reuters has any reason to lie about what is going on.  They are about as truthful a news service as we are going to get without a lot of the overemotion that can infect news reports.

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By tgambill, March 10, 2009 at 10:15 pm Link to this comment

Shenonymous, despite our rantings to each other, I have to say thank you for your trust.  If I am wrong please correct me and provide the link or the reference and I will retrack…there is so much deception on both sides. 

The Christians are soon going to get blasted. I went to a BAPTIST church last weekend.  I walked out 3/4 into the service.  They are liars and leading people from the truth as they themselves are lead to believe and they don’t even see it.  Before CHRISTIANS start pounding Atheist, YOU HAD BETTER CLEAN UP YOUR OWN HOUSE…...NOW!!!  Let God touch the heart of the Atheist as an Atheist is only a person that doesn’t believe in the supernatural.  What happens when your neightbor the Atheist sees the supernatural….now you have a believer.  However; so-called Christians, you are supposed to believe in the supernatural, Jesus Christ, the Bible, truth etc…and etc….So, Christians can’t make up their mind which Bible, which Jesus, which church, which version, some believe in Aliens like the Pope and the Priests, to the New Age Mumbo Jumbo…..Occult, dream catchers, Jesus was an Alien from a UFO, to Jesus was married to Mary and had a little Jesus that has a blood line protected by the evil knights templars…..  No wonder we got Atheist in the world, you so called New Age Christians have no clue what you believe.  Before you cast any judgment on an Atheist or Muslim you better get your own house together…...this goes for Billy Graham, Copeland, Hagee, Hagin and his drunken holy laughter?  Prosperity preachers??  Shueller, Popes, Benny HINN the master of deceptive healing from the Anarchist Cookbook…..Pat Robertson and his ill conceived prophesies…..No wonder he is sometimes right, he is part of the illuminati team. Probably a Mason Like the Pope, Shueller, and Billy Graham.  Billy Graham has been funded by the Rockefeller through the Laura Spelman Memorial foundation since the 1950’s…...subverting the truth of the Bible eve so slightly…don’t believe?  research it, I challenge you. Bush a born again…?  Please.  By his own words he is not a born again believer.  Want the evidence…its available.  I’m done!!!!!!!!!

The coming evangelical collapse

An anti-Christian chapter in Western history is about to begin. But out of the ruins, a new vitality and integrity will rise.

Oneida, Ky. - We are on the verge – within 10 years – of a major collapse of evangelical Christianity. This breakdown will follow the deterioration of the mainline Protestant world and it will fundamentally alter the religious and cultural environment in the West.

Within two generations, evangelicalism will be a house deserted of half its occupants. (Between 25 and 35 percent of Americans today are Evangelicals.) In the “Protestant” 20th century, Evangelicals flourished. But they will soon be living in a very secular and religiously antagonistic 21st century.

This collapse will herald the arrival of an anti-Christian chapter of the post-Christian West. Intolerance of Christianity will rise to levels many of us have not believed possible in our lifetimes, and public policy will become hostile toward evangelical Christianity, seeing it as the opponent of the common good.

Millions of Evangelicals will quit. Thousands of ministries will end. Christian media will be reduced, if not eliminated. Many Christian schools will go into rapid decline. I’m convinced the grace and mission of God will reach to the ends of the earth. But the end of evangelicalism as we know it is close.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090310/cm_csm/yspencer


Billy Graham

http://procinwarn.com/billy.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sow0gfXXHGY

Billy Graham and Robert show….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=axxlXy6bLH0

Bush?????? born again?  NOT!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t_8GoF9SLas

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By tgambill, March 10, 2009 at 9:25 pm Link to this comment

There is no war on drugs in Mexico!!!!!  The interbred members of our government is allowing 350,000 Mexican troops backed by Chinese and Russian Troops to deploy along the Texas, Az, New Mexico and Calif border using the fake war on drugs as an cover.  Mexico deployed 45,000 to 50,000 troops, to FIGHT DRUG CARTELS??????  please, give me a break.  Reports are that most of the weapons are coming from the US….imagine that.  sounds like a job for “gun control man”.......to jusify the elimination of the second amendment in time for the assault.

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By tgambill, March 10, 2009 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment

Shenomyounus, I saw it with my own eyes Friday night at Applebees outside of Georgia….smile  and just about fell out of my seat.  Now, our fellow Americans were too engrossed in a basketball game to notice the other report 5 feet from the TV with the all inspiring basketball game…..disgusting.  Not one, not even one person even looked at the report.  I looked around and not one even flinched.  I’m just about ready to just give up and just set back and wait.  I’m not even talking religion here…we could go there but I’m talking secular, current news and the country next door declares martial law or Fox news reported it Friday night and not even a peep from any other newspaper, flash news, TV, NADA!!! that is a smoking gun.  I will be surprised if YOU TUBE still have the reports online.

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By Shenonymous, March 10, 2009 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment

tgambill you are one of two Christians who I trust!  I will visit all your websites tomorrow.  It is too late tonight. Tomorrow is a work day.  I haven’t even read your comments, but I know you will be you so I feel better you are being vigilant.

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By tgambill, March 10, 2009 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment

Jesus is soon coming.  Oh by the way, Mexico declared martial law on Friday and it was on Fox and it was taken off the air as fast as it got on. 

I saw this on Fox news tonight. It said “Breaking News - Mexican pres declares martial law civilians and Americans put on lockdown” then it dissapeared. It was odd. We are next as I’ve said before…..and now its coming around.  CIA is orchestrating a crime wave using MS-13 Latino crime gangs in 3,500 cities to justify the declaration of martial law in the US soon.  This is all linked with the Revelation and soon to manifest itself in ways never imagined by the sleepy Americans.

http://chrysler5thavenue.blogspot.com/2009/03/mexico-under-martial-law.html

I just heard from a reliable source in Mexico that martial law has been imposed. The country is under complete military lockdown. Mexican citizens and American tourists have had their movement tightly restricted and are being told to stay off the streets under penalty of arrest. Mexican officials are denying that the country is about to collapse.

EDIT (03:28 08March2009): These guys just picked up on the story:

http://www.freepressinternational.com/2009/03/ciudad-juarez-mexico-under-martial-law/

Here’s a collection of some other relevant links from the comments:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/03/07/mexico.headless.bodies/index.html

http://www.google.com/search?q=mexico+gang+warfare

http://digg.com/world_news/MEXICO_PLACED_UNDER_MARTIAL_LAW

http://chrysler5thavenue.blogspot.com/2009/03/geraldo-was-silenced.html

Geraldo was silenced, but there is more information out there. If you happen to be in Mexico or have more information about this, please post anything you can tell us. I have enabled posting anonymously if you are an official with any government or directly or indirectly involved with this action.
http://whitelocust.wordpress.com/2009/03/07/only-6-12-months-until-full-fledged-facsist-martial-law/
http://www.thepropheticyears.com/wordpress/2009/03/06/we-are-one-major-crises-away-from-martial-law-and-the-end-of-the-bill-of-rights.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTe-KLSOYAU&feature=related
 
Gunman opens fire at church, killing pastor
9 mins ago CHICAGO (AFP) – A gunman opened fire at an Illinois church Sunday, killing the pastor and wounding several parishioners, according to US media.The gunman opened fire at First Baptist Church in Maryville, Illinois, shooting senior pastor Fred Winters three times, Fox News reported. Winters died of a gunshot wound to his chest. Six people were taken to area hospitals with gunshot wounds, the network said.The attacker, whose identity has not been released, was in custody at a St. Louis, Missouri hospital, where he was being treated in serious condition for self-inflicted stab wounds, the St. Louis Post-Dispatch reported. The shooting began shortly after the Sunday church service began at 8:15 am (1315 GMT) with about 150 people in attendance. The assailant then walked down the aisle and up to the pulpit, where he spoke with Winters and shot him, Illinois state police told the newspaper.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090308/ts_alt_afp/uscrimechurch_20090308172400

New Bill Will Turn Old Military Bases Into FEMA Camps

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By Shenonymous, March 10, 2009 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment

By lastdaywatchers, March 10 at 1:37 pm #
Christain69 you are right Jesus is “KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS”

Just so his ghost pays my taxes!  And since I am an antiroyalist too, down with kings, long live the people! 

Looks like an invitation to start all over again!  Oh my gawd.  Annie, and tgambill, and if Hemi* is still around, brace yourselves. 

It must be that time of the month and the fanatical need to scream out takes over the minds of ldw and C69.

Seeing the humor in much of life, this lofty chap had the right idea,
“I cannot see how a man of any large degree of humorous perception can ever be religious—unless he purposely shut the eyes of his mind & keep them shut by force.” - Mark Twain

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By lastdaywatchers, March 10, 2009 at 11:37 am Link to this comment

Christain69 you are right Jesus is “KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS”

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By Annie Reitano, February 24, 2009 at 8:34 am Link to this comment

Of course!  You may.  :D

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By Shenonymous, February 24, 2009 at 2:16 am Link to this comment

Annie, may I use your term Jesus Juice.  I almost fell off my chair laughing.  Ah yes, laughter is a healing balm.

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By Annie Reitano, February 23, 2009 at 8:24 am Link to this comment

Well, sure!  But the imaginary Abrahamic gods are usually the most emotionally exhilirating.  I just figured Christian69 had had a good Sunday dose of Jesus juice..so, why not sing the praises of Allah as well?  That is, so long as we’re praising imaginary deities.  Wouldn’t want to leave one out. :D

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By Shenonymous, February 23, 2009 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

Mannnn, I’ll go for Brahma be praised!

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By Annie Reitano, February 22, 2009 at 10:47 pm Link to this comment

ALLAH BE PRAISED!!!

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By christian96, February 22, 2009 at 8:45 pm Link to this comment

JESUS IS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS!

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By christian96, February 10, 2009 at 5:04 pm Link to this comment

To Eileen Fleming—-I’ll have to admit my ignorance
of Brother Vanunu’s story but I promise to become
more aware of the circumstances.
I’ll share a personal story.  On November 4, 1976,
while teaching Educational Psychology at a major
university, an article appeared in the university
newspaper announcing my upcoming appearance on a
local TV talkshow to discuss, “Why Wealthy People
Neglect Poor People.”  The next day, November 5th,
the Dean of Education called me into his office and
informed me my teaching contract would not be renewed
for the following year.  When I ask for a reason,
he told me there had been a cut-back in funds.
When I informed him that I was not the last person
hired and therefore had seniority, he responded,
“Your contract will not be renewed!” I went ahead
and appeared on the TV program on Nov. 7th, 1976,
my mother and father’s 38th wedding anniversary.
My father worked 40 years in the coal mines of
Kentucky and West Virginia.  I knew what being poor
was like!  I was unemployed for 18 months before
finally locating a job as a School Psychologist.
I was never again hired to be a university teacher.
We have “freedom of speech” in America but that
doesn’t mean you can keep your job. I’ll read about
Brother Vanunu.

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By Shenonymous, February 10, 2009 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

Mordechai Vanunu has been denied an immigrant’s citizenship in every country to which he has applied for decades.  Even so called “neutral” countries.  His insistent denunciation of Israel has left him pretty much an enemy of the state.  Publicizing State of Israel secret information, the reason why he was originally incarcerated, may be outdated and useless any more, if it was true in the first place, which has never been verified, but he was sentenced and Israel is a harsh disciplinarian.  It is a sovereign nation and one of the reasons other countries do not want to jeopardize their relationship by granting him asylum or championing his rights:  Norway, Sweden, England, the USA.  He was actually released in 2004 but he was still bound by the non-disclosure agreement that swore him to secrecy on the subject.  His continued defiance of Israel courts extended his movement restriction until 2007.  Seen by some as a kind of folkhero, he was offered a job at the University of Glasgow to serve for three years as Rector and actually was installed into that office in April 2005 but was not able to take office since he was and is still confined to Israel though under house arrest, he is no longer in jail but in the kind of jail of an entire country also some of his movements within Israel is remains restricted. 

It would appear that if someone is prosecuted and jailed for a supposed act of ‘free speech’ that the person is indeed deserved of the appellation of hero to those who hold freedom of speech sacred.  However countries, including the Untied States, also have the right to protect its people from sedition and in a constant climate of danger to the state, state secrets are not open to the transparency that is always used as a criticism for the public not knowing everything about its country.  Israel has those same justifications to restrict freedom of speech.  The right is there for those who live in a country without the intention of destroying it.  Whether or not that country is moral or just in their laws and usage thereof, justice must follow the procedures of the court even when there is almost monumental obstacles.  Legal ways must be found to challenge the courts, but at all costs a civilized treatment must be maintained.

Since the American public at large has no privileged information regarding the authenticity of the action of the State of Israel against Mr. Vanunu, it also has no reason nor right to challenge Israel. 

We are always and must be vigilant to protect the right of freedom of speech within the borders of our own country and to make criticisms of those countries who do not give that same guaranteed freedom to their people.  It behooves one to find out what exactly is the story and not take stories as pathetic as Mr. Vanunu’s at face value.  Special funds may be set up to protect that right but caution as to whether those funds are legitimate and legitimately controlled for the express purpose advertised.  Too much corruption exists in the world as it is without the sympathetic emotions manipulated for nefarious gain.

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By tgambill, February 10, 2009 at 12:20 am Link to this comment

Eileen, thanks for the heads up…....

Hemi, long read and good info….will finish reading it tomorrow….

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By tgambill, February 10, 2009 at 12:18 am Link to this comment

Eileen, we all are in the same pot.  I will have to say that Atheist have a “stigma” that is not true.  Its like when you hear “conspiracy theorist” the first thought is “crazy guy”.....  Atheist are just people that don’t believe in the supernatural.  New Agers are considered by All to be either supernatural believers or Occult.  They are still good people.  I know many, many “christian” evangelicals that are liars and are cheating people from their life’s savings and selling green prayer hankies, and miracle water.  Slapping people on the head like Rocky and saying healed…..Its in the heart that makes people and what they really do…...

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By Hemi*, February 9, 2009 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment

Annie, sorry I didn’t want to burden you with that piece. Hopefully you are enjoying McCabe’s pointed style in going after the Church. He didn’t pull punches. And the guy could write ad infinitum as you are discovering. They say he wrote nearly 250 books. There’s apparently nothing like a monk scorned. Would that make him a mad monk? Or a deeply fried friar? But I digress…

That infidels site says of McCabe: “Born in 1867, Joseph McCabe became a Franciscan monk at the age of nineteen. But disgusted with his fellow monks and the Christian doctrine, he left the priesthood for good on February 19, 1896.”

If I remember correctly the story was that early on McCabe discovered that those that went into the priesthood were young boys that were poor, weak-minded and considered otherwise unemployable. I think being poor was his gateway to the priesthood as he was anything but weak-minded and would have succeeded in academics or science. But in general priests/monks would have been perfect candidates for brainwashing and then parroting back the Church’s dogma. My experience tells me that has continued in general since then. I have known good, intelligent men that were priests but they were few and far apart. They mostly worked around or entirely ignored the doctrine in order to help people and that’s as one might imagine. They worked the system. And as we’ve all seen on the news there were and are priests that “worked the system” in a very different manner.

The priesthood is drying up in this country but it is still looked upon as a “way out” in the third world. Many new US priests are coming from overseas to escape poverty and fill the need in the US. Every parish had an Irish priest when I was growing up. Now they come from Africa and Central America. We had a priest from India in our parish about 15 years ago. He was defrocked years later in another state for an affair with a woman. Imagine that, a Catholic priest and a woman! Don’t that beat all?

Here’s the infidels.org page listing some of his other works:

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_mccabe/

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By Hemi*, February 9, 2009 at 10:16 pm Link to this comment

TG of course you are correct. McCabe had his own biases to be sure and most of the subtleties of global conspiracy would have escaped him. McCabe was limited by the media available during his lifetime. And so he is stumbling onto inconsistencies in the written history and attributing them to covert factions that the public was not aware of. How many were doing that in 1950? Who else was back-checking their encyclopedia? It took a disgruntled former priest that knew first-hand how the Church of Rome operated. Yes there were other written sources but I think in 1950 an encyclopedia would have rated rather high in general acceptance. He reviewed the Encyclopedia Britannica in a similar fashion. My point was we tend not to question authority and McCabe was doing just that and that was a bit of what inspired me to look a little harder and listen a little closer.

McCabe states near the end of the first section: “I have, moreover, confined myself to historical articles, and in fact to such as relate to Catholic history and therefore properly confirm my suspicion that the Catholic Church in America, with its masses of ill-instructed voters and readers, has such influence on the circulation of books and periodicals through its hold on bookstores, libraries and reviewers, that it is directly and indirectly poisoning the sources of public instruction.”

And so he was not a full-blown conspiracist. He was after the Church mostly and not aware that it could have been only one cog of many in a larger machine. And so his interpretations of wars and revolutions were from a stance of what could be gained by the Church of Rome.

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By Annie Reitano, February 9, 2009 at 9:08 pm Link to this comment

Hemi*..Thank you for the read.  I am part way through but will continue tomorrow to get through the rest.  It is a long read!!!

Eileen, I am more than a bit amused that you believe only xians have a heart.  So be it.  Let him rot because those(like you)who are plugging for him pick and choose.  So be it.

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By tgambill, February 9, 2009 at 8:47 pm Link to this comment

Hemi, I read parts of the article that I know about.  They are not telling the whole story and in few cases they are “inaccurate”.  The Bolshevik Revolution we started; and several other issues they are covering up.

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By eileen fleming, February 9, 2009 at 5:26 pm Link to this comment

Dear Christians,

Do you know your bro Vanunu, an ex-Orthodox Jew, baptized in 1986 just days before being kidnapped by the Mossad and sentenced to 18 years in jail for TELLING THE TRUTH:

That Israel had upwards of 200 nuclear warheads in 1985.

Israel released Vanunu after 18 years in mostly solitary to house arrest April 21, 2004.

He has been DENIED the RIGHT to leave the state, the RIGHT to speak to non-Israelis.

On Jan. 25, 2006, Vanunu’s FREEDOM OF SPEECH TRIAL began in the ‘democracy’ of Israel.

In July 2007, Vanunu was sentenced to 6 months in jail for speaking to foreigners in 2004, who happened to be media.

His Supreme Court Appeal is TBA, but the 5th year of restrictions that deny him the RIGHT to leave the state, the RIGHT to speak to non-Israelis expires April 21, 2009.

Do Something in support of FREEDOM OF SPEECH, Democracy, be what JC was about and help free Vanunu:


PLEASE cut/paste and send President Obama this message:

http://www.whitehouse.gov/administration/eop/opl/

http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact/

Since his release from jail April 21, 2004, Mordecahi Vanunu has been denied the RIGHT to leave Israel and denied the RIGHT to speak to non-Israelis.

As a person of conscience I request you do everything in your power to obtain justice for Vanunu: release to full freedom.

Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers. -Article 19.

Everyone has the right to leave any country, including his own, and to return to his country.-13:2

 


2005, 2006, 2008 video with Vanunu and more:

http://www.wearewideawake.org/


Eileen Fleming, Author, Founder, Senior Correspondent WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
Producer “30 Minutes With Vanunu” and “13 Minutes with Vanunu”

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By Hemi*, February 9, 2009 at 3:35 pm Link to this comment

Part 2

So you have this ongoing 9/11 investigation. Even the most government gullible would agree that even if nothing was actually done to create the disaster, the response to it aside from first responders was peculiar to say the least. So that is stewing while I am reading a number of skeptic authors. You are likely in the know on most of these. Dawkins, Hitchens, Sam Harris, Dennett, James Randi, Marshall Brain, Matt Taibbi, Julia Sweeney and George Carlin to name a few. But not a conspiracist in the bunch. Not until I discovered the writings of Joseph McCabe. McCabe was an ordained Catholic priest that questioned and left the church becoming one of the most prolific writers and speakers on freethought.

Now McCabe was not a conspiracist as such. Most of his wrath was pointed at Christianity the Church and their distortions of reality. One of his most famous writings dealt with how the Columbia Encyclopedia (“compiled and edited at Columbia University”) had distorted and changed it’s historical entries over the course of years and new editions to in many cases show the Church in a better light or simply erase embarrassing historical events. What this came down to was proof that a widely accepted source institution was rewriting history and I believe this was around 1950.

I think most people would consider McCabe a scholar but this work did not require scholarship so much. He was essentially comparing one edition to another and noting the differences. Those differences I suppose could still be found if the books still exist. Thus I became a bit more than skeptical regarding the world. What else had been edited and why? Who was feeding me their history? I think these people and groups know what the publishers of the Columbia Encyclopedia knew and that was we don’t question authority. At least for most of us that is the tendency. Mom and dad were Catholics, who am I to question it? “They hate us for our freedom!” Oh really? Who exactly are “they”? And are “they” actually you?

Here’s a link to the McCabe piece on the encyclopedia:

http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/joseph_mccabe/encyclopedia_crime.html#1

I think you’ll all enjoy reading a little of that. He was a pistol!

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By Hemi*, February 9, 2009 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment

Part 1

Annie, If I might inject a little of my experience and research into this discussion. I come from a very different background from TG. I did come to my current position on “faith” if you will from a Christian and to be precise RC upbringing. 50 years as a practicing Catholic. Now a “recovering Catholic” as a number of people have coined the term. I am now atheist in that I don’t believe in a personal and anthropomorphic creative source for the universe.

You might ask how I went from semi-brainwashed Catholic to “conspiracy theorist”. I think we all question our faith to some degree from the start. In most cases I think it arrives in childhood and is instigated by a boring round of Catechism, Sunday school, Hebrew school, etc… “Do I have to go to Catechism?” And from there we build our case finding flaws in the stories hoping to win a reprieve from our warden-like parents. Who are indeed “honoring their own father and mother” by subjecting you to the same Iron Age brainwashing they received. And so most of us, maybe you had a different upbringing, grew up thinking that the questions of faith were answered by those wiser and closer to the source than we will ever be. Of course this is all driven home by 2000 years of scholarly nit-picking, papal bulls, councils and the hype of there were only 12 followers to start with and now there are untold millions. How could that many people be wrong? “The Greatest Story Ever Told!” Yeah, I know. This from the same people that brought you: “If Billy jumped off a bridge would you do it too?” But who doesn’t like the baby Jesus? That’s how they get ya. Baby in a manger, a few angels, farm animals, everybody in Birkenstocks, three wise guys, what’s not to like? But I digress…

Right now you’ve got calendar pages flapping indicating the years going by like in an old black and white movie. There I am nearly fifty and back to the question of faith. Why then? It was the combination of the Internet, popular skeptical writers and world events including 9/11. The biggest slice of BS the US government served up was that although the FBI lists most of the 9/11 terrorists as being “possible Saudi nationals” we invade Iraq. If it were remotely true wouldn’t you think that Saudi Arabia was the terrorist hotbed? But let’s leave Bush’s compadres alone for now. How does one get into this conspiracist mode?

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By Annie Reitano, February 9, 2009 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

Tom,

The illuminati working with the NWO idea is just a theory.  And since you saturate yourself with the writings of “scholars” who are selling you this propaganda, I have no doubt that you believe it.  But scholars are subjective, too.  If they are not, then tell me why you don’t believe in the scholarly and historical work of Bart Ehrman in “Misquoting Jesus”.  Have you even read it?  I doubt it.  But it clearly shows how the Bible has been distorted over time begging the question of why a divine being would allow HIS words to be entangled and mixed up by man.  The answer is clear through reason.  I find it sad that you don’t trust your own sense of reason anymore, and rely on that of men who write things that are akin to your way of thinking.

It’s all subjective…it does NOT in anyway prove the existence of Jesus.  And I would be willing to bet that none of what you have written here will come about.  But I do understand why you believe it.  For the same reason you believe the Bible.  You believe the writings of people who scare you into being good so that you can meet your saviour in the clouds and dance the happy dance, while, according to your belief system and theories, others will be running to save their lives and calling for mountains to fall on them.

If this propaganda all makes you sleep better to know your posit is the right xian posit and god loves you best because you’re “enlightened”, then you might want to ask yourself if you’re not a part of the “illuminati”.  there are so many sects of xianity that deny what you’re saying is true.  But of course it’s all about you, you, you. 

I am not trying to sharp-shoot you.  But when you think about it for YOURSELF…it’s all myth and cannot possibly be anything else.

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By tgambill, February 9, 2009 at 12:07 pm Link to this comment

It seems that my postings are causing an aborted note and it won’t let me in.  I wonder???  I have several computers up and running at the same time just in case and other tricks up my sleave so as not to lose work or be bugged….lol….

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By tgambill, February 9, 2009 at 12:05 pm Link to this comment

Annie, I don’t go with my opinion.  I have learned not to trust my opinion a long time ago.  An opinion is made up of emotions, history classes from childhood to college, and other books from the mainstream, our ego’s, our characters, our moralities, Newspapers, TV news, and we know that the news is full of bunk anyway controlled by the CFR, and that our education system was taken over and controlled by Rockefeller foundations since 1904.  All the other factors have nothing to do with facts.  So, I look for a fact or notion that is supported by no less that three pieces of scholarily work.  I trace the authors name, his publisher, and his financing…....to trust or not.  Then I check their references as if I wrote the article.  The only thing I don’t do this with, to some extent, is my faith in Jesus Christ. 

The New World Order; I research whole heartily and don’t make these things up.

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By tgambill, February 9, 2009 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

Annie, how it not dawned on you that there is no evidence to show that its just a theory?  NONE.  All the evidence, literally going back to Proofs of a Conspiracy by John Robison, 1798 to now demonstrate the fact it is ongoing now….......

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By tgambill, February 9, 2009 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

It has EVERYTHING to do with Jesus.  This New World order is the government for the Anti-Christ the false Christ yet to come.  That is the whole point.  They one and the same. 

The plan for a world order is absolutely not a theory and it is fact soon to arise.  Just buckle up when this thing hits.  Won’t be long. 

The “savior” after the war will be the anti-christ and claim to be the supernatural Jesus.  Just remember this conversation.  He will be lying and will become evil after a period of time. DO NOT TAKE THE VERICHIP…..........

Now, for my point about Australia…

Rudd Wants Europe-Style Union Established in Asia (Update1)
By Gemma Daley

June 5 (Bloomberg)—Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd wants a Europe-style union in Asia, to pursue trade agreements and boost co-operation on terrorism and resource security.

Rudd, 50, said global power and influence was shifting toward Asia and Australia must drive the creation of a union including India and members of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation.

``We need to have a vision for an Asia-Pacific community,’’ Rudd told the Asia Society Australia Center in a speech last night in Sydney. ``The danger of not acting is that we run the risk of succumbing to the perception that future conflict in our region may somehow be inevitable.’’

Rudd, who ended John Howard’s 11-year rule in November, appointed diplomat Richard Woolcott to lobby regional leaders over the new body. Rudd will visit Japan and Indonesia next week.

``We are part of the Asia-Pacific region and we must have deeper engagement with our friends and allies in the region,’’ Defense Minister Joel Fitzgibbon told reporters in Canberra. ``That delivers security for Australia through trust and confidence.’’
To contact the reporter on this story: Gemma Daley in Canberra at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Last Updated: June 4, 2008 21:31 EDT

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601081&sid=a1f7aj40zhFk&refer=australia#

Australian PM Proposes Obama-styled Youth Corps
Ben Packham

Herald and Weekly Times

January 27, 2009
PM Kevin Rudd wants to recruit an army of young volunteers to help the elderly, feed the homeless, and clean up the environment.

In exchange for giving up their time, members of the new Community Corps would get discounts on their university HECS debts. The proposal could attract tens of thousands of volunteers from the 1.3 million Australians with a higher education debt.

http://www.infowars.com/australian-pm-proposes-obama-styled-youth-corps/

OBAMA has a youth core he is making now. 

Research related articles:
1.  Australian PM Proposes Obama-styled Youth Corps
2.  Hurdle for Rudd Asia-Pacific plan
3.  Australian PM Calls for “Social Capitalism”
4.  PM defends controversial Asia-Pacific Community meeting
5.  Australian ISPs Resist Government Filtering Scheme
6.  Australian SAS Units Function as Death Squads in Afghanistan
7.  Australian Internet Censorship Trial Program Begins
8.  Mediterranean union wants to rid Mideast of WMD
9.  One Currency for South American Union
10.  South America nations found union
11.  South American Union of Nations Established in Brasilia
12.  Australian paper proclaims: A New World Order as U.S. prosperity falls
Videos for reference

http://www.nowpublic.com/node/1928792/footage/list

BARACK OBAMA_ THE WOLF IN SHEEP’S CLOTHING P1.wmv

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDGiMPWlyqg

Don’t fooled by Ron Paul who is working for the other side as I’ve mentioned before.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BTgyR0LLcg

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By Annie Reitano, February 9, 2009 at 11:30 am Link to this comment

These are all just conspiracy theories based on perfectabalists from long ago.  A theory is just that…a theory.  It’s not necessarily factual at all, and usually it comes from a lot of paranoia of losing one’s rights. 

Whether it be Churchhill, Rockefeller or Pat Robertson, I see no reality to it except that the economy is bad, governments are corrupt and people suffer.  But it’s always been that way-with or without a NWO. 

Just theories.  If you cannot count on scientific theories (and you don’t) why is it that you believe fully in this frenzy that is far from hidden or covert, and you do so as if it IS covert?  I mean, who gave YOU the real inside scoop??

If the governments of the world want to screw everyone over, it will be sure to be hushed up, and not a cover story for CNN and even Wikipedia.

Anyway, what does all this have to do with whether Jesus is man or myth??

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By tgambill, February 9, 2009 at 11:07 am Link to this comment

Oh, the purpose, to bring Australia as the Australian Union with the other 9 forming 10 unions for the world government.

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By tgambill, February 9, 2009 at 11:05 am Link to this comment

Hemi,

Like Katrina in the U.S. for the government to take property, establish Martial law, take weapons, and establish a Russian beach head, for future actions, there is no doubt that the Illuminati planned this…

Australian fire zone a crime scene; 166 killed

WHITTLESEA, Australia – Police declared incinerated towns crime scenes Monday, and the prime minister spoke of “mass murder” after investigators said arsonists may have set some of Australia’s worst wildfires in history. The death toll rose to 166.
There were no quick answers, but officials said panic and the freight-train speed of the fire front — driven by 60 mph winds and temperatures as high as 117 degrees Fahrenheit (47 C) — probably accounted for the unusually high toll.

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, visibly upset during a television interview, reflected the country’s disgust at the idea that arsonists may have set some of the 400 fires that devastated Victoria state, or helped them jump containment lines.

“What do you say about anyone like that?” Rudd said. “There’s no words to describe it, other than it’s mass murder.”

From the air, the landscape was blackened as far as the eye could see. In at least one town, bodies still lay in the streets. Entire forests were reduced to leafless, charred trunks, farmland to ashes. Victoria police spokeswoman Christie Pengally said the death toll as of late Monday was 166.

Associated Press writer Carley Petesch in New York contributed to this report.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090209/ap_on_re_au_an/as_australia_wildfires

Video of fires

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/popup/?rn=3906861&cl=11945867&ch=4226714&src=news

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By tgambill, February 9, 2009 at 10:54 am Link to this comment

Nr 2

February 18, 2008

Shocking Numbers of Banned Weapons Seized in Mexico

Frontera NorteSur

Mexican authorities have reported confiscating enough weapons to supply a small army. Cited in the Mexican press, unnamed sources with the Office of the Federal Attorney General (PGR) said more than 45,000 weapons were seized from 2001 to 2007. According to the PGR, the firepower included 17,361 assault rifles, 27,461 small arms and 711 grenades. In the same time period, more than 3 million bullets were confiscated. According to Mexican Interior Minister Juan Camilo Mouriño, 4,447 assault weapons and 4,451 small arms came into the hands of the Mexican government in 2007.

The latest figures don’t include the February 7, 2008 seizure of four tons of weaponry from a ranch in the northern Mexican state of Tamaulipas. In the latest raid, authorities discovered more than 89 assault rifles and other military-type weapons at a property in Miguel Aleman, a municipality located across the border from Texas. Officials suspected the ranch could have served as a training facility for the Zetas, the paramilitary arm of the Gulf drug cartel.

Five coastal or border states led the list of hot spots for illegal arms confiscations in recent years. In order of importance, Tamaulipas, Michoacan, Chiapas, Veracruz and Sonora were the states with the richest troves of guns, grenades and ammo.  Perhaps not coincidentally, all the states are zones where the Zetas either dominate or have a significant presence.

http://mexidata.info/id1727.html

Mexico’s Massive Illegal weapons coming from China and the U.S.     
   
June 23, 2008
by Michael Webster: Investigative Reporter
Laguna Journal

William Hoover, Assistant Director for Field Operations of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF), recently told the United States House of Representatives Committee on Foreign Affaires Subcommittee on the Western Hemisphere that the violence fueled by Mexico’s drug cartels poses a serious challenge for both U.S. and Mexican Law Enforcement in that the drug trafficking related violence is threatening the well being and safety of citizens on both sides of the border. Mr. Williams is in charge of operations of all of the Bureau’s field offices, including those along the Southwest Border.

http://www.rightsidenews.com/200806231247/border-and-sovereignty/mexico-s-massive-illegal-weapons-coming-from-china-and-the-u.s.html

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By tgambill, February 9, 2009 at 10:54 am Link to this comment

Hemi, you are locked into this political agenda.  Not much more I can add. Nice summary for the up to date news. 

“Mexico is on the verge of being taken over by drug lords and criminals while 10% of its citizens are in the US.”

******One comment, however, the Drug lords and criminals are being led by the CIA and the money powers are focusing on Mexico to be the first domino to fall leading us to the North American Union.  CIA is running the guns to the Mexican cartels as are the Chinese.  The Chinese are deployed in Mexico along with Russian troops ready to enter the U.S.  Russians are in Cuba, South America, Canada, and Airborne troops in Alaska.  UN troops over 1,000,000 are in the US now.  CIA middle men are working with MS-13 and Mexican Mafia in over 3,500 cities to start a crime wave and force Americans to WANT martial law.  Lets not forget the release of a specially engineered deadly flu bug by Chemtrails in certain areas.  They, Illuminati tell you what they are going to do before they do it.  They in fact own Hollywood, and use the movies, TV, Star Icons to brainwash and manipulate the public.  Fact! Started in 1937 by the Rockefeller Foundation.  That is another story.

Mexican Drug Cartels Armed to the Hilt, Threatening National Security

Wednesday, February 04, 2009
By Matt Sanchez

This is modern Mexico, where the leaders of the powerful drug cartels are armed to the teeth with sophisticated weapons, many of which are smuggled over the border from the United States. It is with this array of superior weapons that drug cartels are threatening the very stability of their own country. And it’s why America’s outgoing CIA Director, Michael Hayden, says violence in Mexico will pose the second greatest threat to U.S. security next year, right after Al Qaeda.

NOTE: In the year 2008…...

Mexico’s Massive Influx of Illegal Weapons Coming From the U.S. and China

An investigative report on June 22nd, from the Laguna Journal Newspaper, in California by Michael Webster, added yet more evidence that lax gun laws in the U.S. are fueling the war between drug cartels along the U.S. and Mexican border and allowing an unprecedented arms trafficking business.

The illegal weapons being trafficked into Mexico from the United States include military-style assault rifles, .50 caliber sniper rifles and ammunition, as well as “cop-killer” handguns.

Mr. Webster wrote that: “In analyzing the data collected through ATF’s investigative and regulatory operations that have been focused on the abatement of illegal firearms trafficking to Mexico, there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States. An in-depth, comprehensive analysis of firearms trace data over the past three years shows that Texas, Arizona and California are the three most prolific source states, respectively, for firearms illegally trafficked to Mexico.”

http://www.gunguys.com/?p=3065

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By tgambill, February 9, 2009 at 10:32 am Link to this comment

“You and I agree that there are mostly unseen and unyielding forces at work against the peace-loving people of the planet.”

*******Big time and they are now scrambling to get this show on the road for its final leg to WWIII and the NWO as Albert Pike planned for. 

“I don’t believe you’ve stated anything that should give the impression that the US is your only concern in these plots.”

******No, you are correct.  It is worldwide and actually the US is a willing pawn in a bigger game that has now determined to take us out to continue with the bigger plan. There are two Illuminati factions, and the US “faction”, for lack of a better word, believes that we are the ones to lead.  Wrong.  we are the dingy now and they are going to put their attention and support with Russia, China and to fight us in a knock down drag out war.  I don’t even know if the US and Russian/Chinese war machines realize that they, are the pawns in a bigger game.  Put China and russia together an one big pit bull.  Then, The US is a pit bull.  The European union, is a pit bull but hiding in the shadows.  Once the owners get the first two pit bulls to fight each other to exhaustion, they will release the European Pit bull…..to clean up.  and he is trained to stop and make peace.  The Peace will be false and the owner, will be evil.  Analogy,. 

“Correct me if I’m wrong but I think we share the belief that the remaining opportunity to escape from and expose the Illuminati/NWO plot must come from those currently living in the US. The reason being is that this is the last bastion of free thought combined with the tools for mobilizing resistance and alternatives.”

*****Absolutely!!  but we are sleeping.  We, U.S. has always been a sticking point for the American and European Illuminati.  Islam was targeted by bringing in the Zionist movement in 1897; then, the protocols of the learned Elders of Zion to target the Jews in the early 1900’s, and in the 1920-1930’s the British and U.S. Illuminati designed the Radical Islamic group called the Brotherhood.  The American and European has always controlled both the radical Islamic movement by using Arab proxies, and setting us up as well.  They did the same thing in our Civil War, Japanese and the Russian war, WWI, WW II, and they will again for WW III.  They have mastered the us of the Hegelian Dialectic principle.  right under our noses.

http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/dialectic.htm

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By Hemi*, February 9, 2009 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

Part 2

October 7, 2008 – “So we’re going to have to make some investments, but we’ve also got to make spending cuts. And what I’ve proposed, you’ll hear Sen. McCain say, well, he’s proposing a whole bunch of new spending, but actually I’m cutting more than I’m spending so that it will be a net spending cut.” – Obama

Castro fed the Cubans on empty promises and platitudes until anyone that could stand up to him had either fled or died. It took decades. But many of his ardent supporters were thrown under the proverbial bus shortly after his take over. Why? To make him appear a just man. Does the name Tom Daschle ring a bell? And Barry took the blame for the Dashcle nomination. “I screwed up.” In truth the only way this was a screw up is if he knew of Dashcle’s tax evading prior to the nomination. Otherwise it was merely a play for false sympathy. Daschle was elected four times to congress and was a former senate majority leader. If any one of Obama’s appointments were pre-vetted it was this one. So, this was not honest remorse for the Daschle nomination, this was making lemonade out of lemons. Geithner’s tax evasion was known by Obama and the entire nation before his confirmation. Why no “I screwed up” there? Because it didn’t serve Barry’s ultimate purpose of grabbing the remaining and future wealth of the nation. If there’s no NWO conspiracy then we’ve simply been blinded to common thievery. Shame on us in either case.

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By Hemi*, February 9, 2009 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

Part 1


TG,


You and I agree that there are mostly unseen and unyielding forces at work against the peace-loving people of the planet. I don’t believe you’ve stated anything that should give the impression that the US is your only concern in these plots. Correct me if I’m wrong but I think we share the belief that the remaining opportunity to escape from and expose the Illuminati/NWO plot must come from those currently living in the US. The reason being is that this is the last bastion of free thought combined with the tools for mobilizing resistance and alternatives.

The entire African continent is in submission to common thugs, not unlike the Mexican gang violence you’ve warned against here. Europe has been rendered harmless by the European Union. Evidenced by Russia tightening the noose via natural gas just weeks ago. China was always half in the bag on this and now they are facing an economic decline similar to ours but with 4.3 times our population. And this shortly after decimating their natural resources and agricultural base. In a nutshell, they’ve already reached the threshold where they can’t feed themselves. The middle east and Indonesia are engulfed by “faith-based initiatives” and are entirely clueless to the everyday needs of their populations. What little the Rockefellers left in central and South America has been tied up by thugs only marginally more civil than the Somali pirates. Mexico is on the verge of being taken over by drug lords and criminals while 10% of its citizens are in the US.


“The universities are available only to those who share my revolutionary beliefs.”

“I never saw a contradiction between the ideas that sustain me and the ideas of that symbol, of that extraordinary figure, Jesus Christ.”

“Capitalism is using its money; we socialists throw it away.”

- Fidel Castro

Now we have a president espousing education and re-education as a major answer to the economic crisis. Perhaps educated people don’t have the material needs of the uneducated. Bush set the stage for that also with his “no child” crap. Instead they’ve undermined the working class in this country. When do you recall a US president rivaling Che Guevara in popularity on t-shirts? Obama is an elected public servant not Christ. He’s not the savior of the country. He rails against the CEOs but does not chase them down like the terrorists they are. They did far more damage to the country and the world than two planes ever could. What is his answer? He says let them eat cake. Well, not quite cake, an $8.5 billion pork pie. Once again punishing the victims.

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By tgambill, February 8, 2009 at 10:07 pm Link to this comment

Its not gossip.  It is confirmed by congressmen, Two presidents, actually three, irrefutable historical research, admission by the perps themselves with establishing data, actual events that clearly show this, and the evidence is not even debatable.  Most people don’t even want to see the evidence or hear the interviews due to the fear of finding it to be true.  You can’t deny the FEMA model coming from the coup planned by Nixon, or the current authorizations for the Concentration camps by H.R. 645, the existence and medical emergencies caused by Chemtrails, unauthorized medical experiments since 1885 to now, and a public apology by Clinton for the goverment conducting harmful experiments, the announcement of the New World Order by Bush, Kissinger, Bush JR, Rockefeller, John Robison, 1798, major General Butler, USMC, 1932, Wall Street funding Bolshevik Revolution, and same ones before funding Lenin, Wall Street, Prescott Bush, DuPont Family, Rockefeller FULLY funding HITLER, and I can go on and on without one mistake of finding or it being refuted by any professor of History or Political science in ANY major university…

It is a fact and it will soon show its very ugly head…...

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By Annie Reitano, February 8, 2009 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment

TG,
If you were an atheist, you wouldn’t likely believe in an eternal soul. :D

As for the rest, I am a skeptic.  I don’t believe in conspiracy theories or anything else.  The U.S. is not the only country in the world, and yet most Americans only refer to the world’s demise in the format of what the U.S. does or doesn’t do, is maybe going to do, or is gossiped about as already in the process of doing.


There’s a whole other world out there.  I really doubt much change will come about because of some spooky gossip.

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By tgambill, February 8, 2009 at 8:13 pm Link to this comment

Annie, I wouldn’t hinge my eteranl soul on the likes of Dumb and Dumber even if I was an atheist. 

There is a major incident coming.  Many states are trying to secede from the United States.  New Hampshire Defining Actions by which they can FIRE the U.S. Government

Now THIS is protesting! Contact your State government and ask if they are doing anything like this.

HOUSE CONCURRENT RESOLUTION 6:
A RESOLUTION affirming States’ rights based on Jeffersonian principles.
SPONSORS: Rep. Itse, Rock 9; Rep. Ingbretson, Graf 5; Rep. Comerford, Rock 9; Sen. Denley, Dist 3
COMMITTEE: State-Federal Relations and Veterans Affairs

That should any such act of Congress become law or Executive Order or Judicial Order be put into force, all powers previously delegated to the United States of America by the Constitution for the United States shall revert to the several States individually. Any future government of the United States of America shall require ratification of three quarters of the States seeking to form a government of the United States of America and shall not be binding upon any State not seeking to form such a government

Official Docket of HCR6:
Date Body Description
01/08/2009 H Introduced and Referred to State-Federal Relations and Veterans Affairs
01/14/2009 H Public Hearing: 2/5/2009 1:00 PM LOB 203
01/27/2009 H Executive Session: 2/12/2009 2:00 PM LOB 203

Annie, they have just submitted a bill through the house to AUTHORIZE the 3,000 Concentration Camps I’ve been telling you about.  H.R. 6435.  Rahm Immanuel and Obama is completing exactly the objectives contained in the Iron Mountain Commission to establish a mandatory training camp for all…..

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By Annie Reitano, February 8, 2009 at 1:57 pm Link to this comment

I love these guys.  The put into perspective very clearly what the religious should already have pondered and concluded:  Jesus, YHWH, Allah, Mohammed, etc., are all myths.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1uQSapWhJXM&eurl=http://bulletins.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=bulletin.read&authorID=107741751&messageID=6331023869&MyTokeniurl=http://i2.ytimg.com/vi/1uQSapWhJXM/hqdefault.jpg&feature=player_embedded

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By tgambill, February 5, 2009 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment

“tgambill & Shenonymous are one in the same
and if you fuck with the May 15th Prophecy GOD will do you like he did puddingtame !!!

******Now, for you squirt.  I didn’t want to include a message for you in the same one with Annie or Shenom.  They are better than that to be on the same post as you stinking up the place.  You are an embarrassment to the Christian faith.  God forgive me for my behavior but I must condemn your apostasy, and your Satanic influence that has degraded this site. Your website is an abomination to the Lord.  I can give you 57 abominations to the Lord in which you fill many more than just one. 

“if you fuck with the May 15th Prophecy GOD will do you like he did puddingtame”

Your God is Lucifer, he is your enlighened one and your worshipful Master.  How can you attack with those words, vile as they are, and CALL YOURSELF CHRISTIAN?  I’ll answer for you, you can’t.  The good part is that I can USE you to show the difference ways Satan is using people.  You, with a demon in your soul.  The other person, a representative for the NEW AGE MOVEMENT, completely pagan, and part of the New Age counterfeit Christianity, the religion of the anti-Christ.  Your branch of Satan and her pagan recreation of God, is in fact designed to lead people from the truth of Jesus and for others to fill the same need you have to also lead them away but in an opposite way.  WOW….Satan is clever.  But he is weak.  Jesus Christ will return and your LDW or whomever, Leon, you better find a different mentor than Scott, you better find Jesus or perish.

Sorry, but lololol…..me telling you Puddentame or whatever, was a joke, and you are actually taking it serious….....

On a serious note, you attacking the non-belivers is against what God has commanded you.  Do you have any idea what will become of your soul if you don’t repent of your ways and follow the one true God, and that isn’t Lucifer the master you follow now.  God hasn’t and won’t do anything to me unless I sin on my own.  You have no power and no support from the one true God, repent and follow him, not Satan.

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By tgambill, February 5, 2009 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

Annie, not been ignoring you, just been busy as you can see.  I’m stirring up pots in other places as well.  smile 

I’ve got your last two emails, now three; in MS Word just itching to be scratched.

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment

Yes, Annie, me too! hahahahahahahahahahaha and so forth.  The loonies are out of their cages, auk oh

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By Annie Reitano, February 5, 2009 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment

I feel myself starting to levitate…...:D

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By lastdaywatchers, February 5, 2009 at 2:46 pm Link to this comment

tgambill & Shenonymous are one in the same
and if you fuck with the May 15th Prophecy GOD will do you like he did puddingtame !!!

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By Annie Reitano, February 5, 2009 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

Tom,

That was no pagan.  That was a raving lunatic who watches too much of the boob tube.  Pagans have far better principles than that—and even have better principles than the Bible.  Eileen is more of a pagan in her beliefs than she’d like to believe.

Now, about this statement: “Jesus came into this world to bring us salvation and a way to be with the Father God.”

Let me get this straight, Jesus came to save us from the crappy job he/the Holy Spiggit, and YHWH did in creating an evil world in the first place.  And don’t start on “free will” when clearly Adam already had it long before the tree incident, and satan was a serpent who lived in the garden and roamed freely about with guile in his mouth(thus making it NOT a paradise, but a trap). So now this Jesus came
to save us from this craphole so he could take us to a more perfect place?  Again, your god is lacking.  Creating an imperfect world so that you can be beaten to a pulp by the very people’s ancestors that you once drown, and then hung on a crucifix to resurrect and save us for the really, really perfect world…well, the story is a myth, TG.

Do you hear yourself?  And now he’s going to come back and save those who called his name and kill most of the earth again because most do NOT adhere to that name as God.  Wow, he really saved the world…about 20 some percent of it.  He still loses to the serpent.

The only description of the devil throughout history, is that of a talking serpent, or a seven headed dragon.  The rest of the time he is left to the imagination.  So, since we KNOW there are NO DRAGONS…we do not need the dragon slayer.

Give up the dimensions, TG.  You have made that one up to correlate with the fifth and sixth heavens. 

And another thing. mad  You have been ignoring all of my questions.  Why did god create so many stars?  Do you think they all have little earths rotating around them?  Why are the polar ice caps melting?  etc. etc.  And don’t make me go “Lewis Black” on you and throw a fossil just over your head. smile

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By tgambill, February 5, 2009 at 10:41 am Link to this comment

Shenom, I don’t know you or Annie, really, and this may sound bizaar but when the exorcist, said to you….

“You sound just like a bitch who used to leave comments on my site name scooby to which I had to curse that spirit to the pits of Hell never to leave comments again”

*****It really pissed me off with that the Pagan acting like a Christian called you that.  go figure.

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By tgambill, February 5, 2009 at 10:33 am Link to this comment

This is becoming to ironic, Shenom, how can we debate, argue, throw a pinch every now and then when we are being confronted with outsiders that cause us to agree in their out of this world concepts.  Buddism, Atheism, Christianity, Agnostics are well established “belief” systems right or wrong.  But these hybrids and counterfeit Christianity, Atheistic, Budisms, are nuts….........

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By Shenonymous, February 5, 2009 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

The youtuber Eileen is trying to grace the forum once again, laughably again. As if this derangement can speakspeak in such an incoherent set of syllables for the venerable Jesus.  The arrogance is staggering.

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By tgambill, February 5, 2009 at 9:32 am Link to this comment

Jesus came into this world to bring us salvation and a way to be with the Father God.  The second time he comes will not be for peace but for judgment of the church which has fallen away.  He will end all wars but, before that a horrible judgment will fall upon this Earth and any that have not taken Jesus Christ as savior. 

“Jesus said Himself, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—-a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household’” (Matthew 10:34-36).

“From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been forcefully advancing, and forceful men lay hold of it” (Matthew 11:12).”

This is a good explanation of how he works.

http://www.gotquestions.org/Jesus-pacifist.html

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By eileen fleming, February 5, 2009 at 8:23 am Link to this comment

IF Jesus-known as THE PRINCE OF PEACE to true believers,

Walked the earth today, he would be in the lead calling for an

END TO WARS

END TO MILITARY OCCUPATIONS

And he would be ALL for FREEDOM OF THOUGHT/CONSCIENCE and SPEECH!


He also would utilize YOU TUBE:

FROM US CAMPAIGN TO END THE ISRAELI OCCUPATION OF PALESTINE

DIRECTV Censors Our Gaza Strip TV Ad!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WI-ke-0HnuY&feature=email


Minute MESSAGE TO Hillary and USA Christians RE: THE WALL in the so called holy land from Vanunu, taped just weeks AFTER his FREEDOM OF SPEECH Trial began in the ‘democracy’ of Israel:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Omq-QG7isA&eurl=http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1182&Itemid=215

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By tgambill, February 5, 2009 at 8:11 am Link to this comment

Christian 96, sorry, made a mistake there thanks.  The first to go is the memory.  smile

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By tgambill, February 5, 2009 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

Continued….2

“No matter how certain we are we continue to kick this around. Why is that? I think there’s more here than simply trying to save non-believers or disprove dogma. There is some very unstable common ground, I’m just sayin”

****Crisis of Belief and searching for that answer.  These sprit beings are at work around us.  God is always inviting us and the Holy Sprit is working on us to open our hearts and let him in.  The spirit world is not really supernatural.  Who calls it supernatural?  We do.  We think that we are the natural inheritors of this universe.  We aren’t even close.  God was here long before us and actually created all that you and I see, with his will to make the particles, to set them in motion and to create with the particles what we see today.  The closest we can get to the supernatural world without the Bible is the string theory that scientist have just touched on.  They cannot measure one specific particle in their last advancement because the particle won’t allow them to measure.  This has them perplexed as to why.  This is an ongoing study fairly recently. We are told that there are 11 dimensions of time and space.  We have only 4 dimensions, length, width, height and the dimension of time.  Compare that to the dimensional capacity of a lower animal or living organism and how it relates to us and its world.  God has 11+ dimensions of time and space that we even know of, if not more.  Demons and angels have just a dimension or more above us that can make them invisible to us or they can enter our world in other means.  This is the truth about this existence that we live.  In other words, WE, humans are the anomaly and are temporary in this universe.  We had a beginning and we will end in this form of life when God decides.  The Revelation of God in the Bible tells gives us a snapshot of these extra-dimensions.

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By tgambill, February 5, 2009 at 8:06 am Link to this comment

“I think you’ve done well to fend off the LDW person. I think that person is simply in search of affirmation.”

****Hemi, I believe that he is in search of power and money.  You should see his website and then you realize that he knows the Bible, but he is distorting it for his own gain.  There is also an effort to distort the true word of God using the same words but twisting them.  He is also possessed of the same satanic influences that that are bent on destroying the foundations of Jesus which will fail.  There is a supernatural war around us going on of Demons and Angels you would not believe if you had glasses to see the other dimension.  One actual portal to the other world is the ouiji board.  It was brought to the world about 600- 800 BC and has the properties necessary to draw these demons to the users.  It was used by children as a game and the demons it draws actually communicate to the user.  The only problem is that once the demon has been there for a short period of time it starts effecting the user in self destructive ways.  Google this and you will see that they are real.  Don’t try it for curiousity just research it. 

I’m not always right because of the vastness of the Bible and my lack of full understanding.  The Bible is the only true word that you can put faith in.

“But in the end we all have doubts and that is the human element of our equation and conversation.”

******You have a point in that this is a circle of faith that we go through.  God is always at work around us. Satan is a deceiver and is also at work.  Because of our worldly existence we have only a four dimensional capacity to exist in this universe.  It matters not what your IQ is or job, we cannot imagine on our own the extra-dimensions.  They are only Theories.  However, by prayer, the Bible and invitation into our lives we can invite the supernatural to interact with us.  In the same vein, so can people invite demonic spirits into their lives very easily.  The world’s elite, or as a core group the 13 Illuminati families for example.  They actually dedicate their infant children to Lucifer in ritual and deed.  This ensures for them that the Satanic conspiracy of a world order is carried from father to son.  Bohemian Grove in San Francisco is a “playground” for these pagans.  Satan worship by anyone is also a way by rituals, symbols, specific chants etc….in fact works.  Nevertheless, we have to invite God in through Jesus Christ and the Holy Sprit will come into your heart if it is sincere.  God will then pursue a continuing a love relationship with you that is real and personal.  He invites you through your spiritto become involved with Him in His work.  He brought us into this world in much the same mindset that we bring children into this world.  Its so that we can love, for our pleasure, in our case to leave a legacy of love and be loved back.  Naturally this is the ideal reason for bringing a child into the world.  God speaks to us through the Bible, prayer, circumstances, and ideally through the church to reveal himself, His purpose and His ways.  However, the churches are now falling away to pagan practices and beliefs that you have experienced here.  I didn’t handle him the proper way as the secular side came out but, I said what I said.  Now, to support what you HEMI said, God’s invitation for us to work with him may lead us to a crisis of Belief that will require FAITH and ACTION.  It might require us to make major adjustments in our lives to join God in what he is doing.  We come to know God by experience as we OBEY Him and he accomplishes His work through us.

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By christian96, February 5, 2009 at 1:45 am Link to this comment

To Tgambill—-You quoted 2nd Timothy 4:1.  I think
you probably mean 1st Timothey 4:1.  The reason I
know is because I have my Bible open to 2nd Timothy
4:4 which I just quoted in comments following the
article, “It’s Not Going To Be OK.”  As far as giving
attention to the demon possed person, LDW, I will
just use the example of Jesus when talking to the
demon in Peter in Matthew 16:23, “Get thee behind
me, Satan: thou are an offense to me: for thou
savourest not the things that be of God, but those
that be of men.”  It is 3:45 a.m. here in Florida.
I’m going to bed.

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By tgambill, February 4, 2009 at 12:36 am Link to this comment

I did my checking and investigating from “sources” and discovered the maniac has had videos on youtube and they have been removed.  One good source wrote this…...

“I’ve seen this guy he was on youtube for awhile last year or at least some of his false claims were I notice they got removed I do find many false prophets coming up now”

He’s a bonified wacko…..okay thats that.  Until tomorrow.

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By Hemi*, February 3, 2009 at 10:53 pm Link to this comment

TG,

I think you’ve done well to fend off the LDW person. I think that person is simply in search of affirmation. We all know we have it right. We all know the other person is at least partly wrong. But in the end we all have doubts and that is the human element of our equation and conversation. No matter how certain we are we continue to kick this around. Why is that? I think there’s more here than simply trying to save non-believers or disprove dogma. There is some very unstable common ground, I’m just sayin’.

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By Annie Reitano, February 3, 2009 at 9:45 pm Link to this comment

OMG!  I leave for half a day and come back to find that someone’s been watching “The Exorcist”.  haha “The power of Christ compells you!”

TG,

:“Well lets see, my question is how did nothing create life.:”

I did not use the word “nothing” in correlation with how we came about.  YOU stated that your god created a universe out of nothing. Please describe what “nothing” is to you. 

The universe is full of gases, both cold and hot.  It’s got black holes, stars (why did god make so many)?  It’s full of living things that started from a scientific stand-point and not some god of the gaps.  It is a FACT that the world is at least 13 billion years old.  Not 6k.  So, how did you and I evolve?  Time.  It’s the only measurement we have.  But at least with science, we have evidence to back it all up…every hole and quake in the earth.  What does Jesus say from the desert-man’s point of view?  Not a lot.

So, again I ask you (in the name of Christ’s compelling—haha J/K) what was God doing with “nothingness”—what IS nothingness, and more importantly, if he’s perfect, why did he create us?

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By tgambill, February 3, 2009 at 5:42 pm Link to this comment

LDW….Oh, I’m sorry I almost forgot.  You asked me…

“And leave a sign of your departure”

well, I’m going out to eat for now….so, my sign is


BYE BYE….for now.    smile)

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By tgambill, February 3, 2009 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment

“In JESUS NAME by HIS POWER he has given unto to me.

To lose and to bind By HIS POWER and by HIS MIGHT

I declare in JESUS NAME, The evil and foul spirit of that piece of shit who call itself ““Puddingtame”

******lolol….son, you just lost my respect.  Listen here, the word from God to you is that you are a fake, fraud, embarrassment and evil doer that will rest when your soul has touched the very depths of Hell.  Unless you repent of your ways, close down your website of self worship your soul will not see the gates of Heaven nor will it see the blinding light of Paradise.  Do you have any idea what judgment God holds for you that will deceive any of his flock and lead them astray?  Your judgment will be more severe than that of a murderer or destroyer. 

I declare in JESUS NAME

*****Do you have any idea what you are doing?  God will not be mocked and your life in eternity will be a Hell that has a special torment. 

“To be sent & bound to the pit of hell as a
way station until JESUS, my Lord, my God   throw you into the LAKE OF FIRE for all eternity”

*******Your god is not the God of the Bible but a god of Blasphemy and deceit. 

“And leave a sign of your departure”

*****Better not wait on that one, unless you make the Blasphemer Shockly your home page, Homey…..get comfortable with that fellow you and he might become lakemates….if you get my meaning.

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By tgambill, February 3, 2009 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment

I apologize for this show of poor behavior, as I tried not to get too “personal” and I don’t like to argue about the word of God. Debate, yes, discuss yes,.......ponder yes….but emotionally argue, NO. 

We as Christians have a problem that many do not want to face.  They forget the prophesy….

II Thessalonians 2:3

“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come except there come a Falling Away first; and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.”

Its not Islam or Atheist that Christians should fear, but those within the church itself.  There are two types of believers in the church. One is characterized as hearing the word but not discerning the word, being more preoccupied with the things of this world. The other pattern for hearers of the word is that it is received in all good faith, and practiced. 

    Today’s falling away church has failed to discern the True Word, and stifles those believers who have been touched by the Holy Spirit and endowed with spiritual wisdom and insight; or potential believers.  Because of this the church will find itself caught up along into the Apostate church during the post-rapture era, completely and totally susceptible to the Grand Delusion perpetrated by the Antichrist himself.  Christians are going to be judged according to the Bible, and this present church age shall end in apostasy rather than ending with the church conquering the whole world.

The apostasy has already taken its firm stranglehold in the church by successfully leading the church away from doctrinal and moral standards that were once the fixed, and thought to be unchangeable anchors of Biblical absolutes.

In this 20th century period the church has found a compromise with this world, and in fact has become indoctrinated with this worlds ideology, both doctrinally and spiritually; and the result is that it has no desire to be separated from this world but it redefining itself and remaking God. God doesn’t like this, believe you, me.
 
Someone has stated that the first casualty in the art of warfare is the truth.  Bush and Clinton showed us that. 

Satan has begun to cast aspersions upon the word of God, and he has ever since kept attacking the divinely inspired record. The purpose of course is to divert people away from the truth.

II Peter 2:17-22 describes the Fallen Away church as being like a well without water, or clouds which are carried along by any old tempest, with preachers who speak great swelling words of vanity.

People are unwilling to contest the heresy being propagated by teachers of false Christianity.  Christians need to aware of the wolves in sheep’s clothing that would creep into the church as told of the last days.

    II Timothy 4:1 Now the spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and Doctrines of devils.

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By Shenonymous, February 3, 2009 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha….ad infinitum.  The guy has gone off the deep end.

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By Shenonymous, February 3, 2009 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha….ad infinitum.  The guy has gone of the deep end.

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By lastdaywatchers, February 3, 2009 at 3:56 pm Link to this comment

In JESUS NAME by HIS POWER he has given unto to me.

To lose and to bind

By HIS POWER and by HIS MIGHT

I declare in JESUS NAME

The evil and foul spirit of that piece of shit who call itself ““Puddingtame”

I declare in JESUS NAME

To be sent & bound to the pit of hell as a
way station until JESUS, my Lord, my God   throw you into the LAKE OF FIRE for all eternity

And leave a sign of your departure !

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By Shenonymous, February 3, 2009 at 3:47 pm Link to this comment

tgambill, you are one of the best Christians I ever came across, anywhere!  We have mutual respect, you, Annie, the newbee Hemi*, and I.  Wow you are right about a front row seat.  What insanity is coming from that LDW.  At least you and us other three can talk like human beings.  That idiot talks like some ape in a zoo!
Gibberish.  We don’t need to know your “real” name to know your soul!  I believe you truly believe what you say.  I have not come to your conclusions.  I am still working on it though or I wouldn’t still be here.  Yet you have never demeaned me!  You can’t know how solid a person that makes you.

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By tgambill, February 3, 2009 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

Hey Prophet Leon, don’t you know that the atheist on here are having a ball…..you are sure giving them a front row seat to false prophets and confirming to them why they are atheist. Good show ole boy…good showing, I’m sure jesus will put you on the “Hall of Flamers”....opppps, sorry, “Hall of Famers”....

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By tgambill, February 3, 2009 at 3:30 pm Link to this comment

“Do not disobey my command because you know me to be a sinner The BLOOD OF CHRIST COMMANDS YOU !!!”

*****I sure hope you don’t take blood pressure medicine.  yes, we all are sinners. 

“God has already dammed you and your kind to a EVERLASTING bath tub of molten lava”

********Matthew 7:2-5


Listen to this passage

2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother’s eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?

5Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother’s eye.

Leon, I don’t judge the ones I listed, I can speak out against their false teachings because what they are preaching you won’t find in the Bible.  I am a saved man in accordance with Romans 10:9 and repentence.  I suggest you do the same. 


“To burn forever in JESUS NAME”

******get over ourselve…...and put your rocks back into your pocket.  So, brother Davis, if someone says, “Leon, is that rocks in your pocket, or are you glad to see me”.....tell them its rocks.

“And by HIS MIGHT and HIS GLORY you shall obey HIS COMMAND”

*****I will always obey his command.  Yours, now that just another story.  Deal with it. 

WHAT IS YOUR NAME ?

*****I warned you….my name is “Puddingtame”

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By lastdaywatchers, February 3, 2009 at 2:58 pm Link to this comment

Do not disobey my command because you know me to be a sinner The BLOOD OF CHRIST COMMANDS YOU !!!

God has already dammed you and your kind to a EVERLASTING bath tub of molten lava

To burn forever in JESUS NAME

And by HIS MIGHT and HIS GLORY you shall obey HIS COMMAND

WHAT IS YOUR NAME ?

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By tgambill, February 3, 2009 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment

“The blood of CHRIST compels you what is your name?”

******Do you have a crystal ball? or say chants.  My name is “Puddingtame, ask me again, and I’ll tell you the same”

In other words, you aren’t calling on an unclean spirit, because I know what you are thinking.  If you can get the alleged spirit to name itself you can do the whammy on it.  Well, not so, until you get right with God.

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By lastdaywatchers, February 3, 2009 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment

The blood of CHRIST compels you what is your name?

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