Many of today’s scholars agree that it is very possible that the sayings in the Gnostic gospels are closer to the words Jesus actually spoke than what is found in the canonical gospels.

Two thousand years ago, there was lively debate about who Jesus was, and why he came. NOTHING much has changed.

Churches before Emperor Constantine legitimized Christianity were hot beds of individuality and not the institutions that have become big business today.

Jesus said he came that we would have life to the full; abundant life [John 10:10] and that takes deep thought, wrestling with The Divine and then taking action.

“To think deeply in our culture is to grow angry and to anger others; and if you cannot tolerate this anger, you are wasting the time you spend thinking deeply. One of the rewards to deep thought is the hot glow of anger at discovering a wrong, but if anger is taboo, thought will starve to death."-Jules Henry

The first mention of Israel in the Bible is in Genesis 32, when Jacob wrestled, struggled and then clung to the Divine being and was then renamed Israel.

THUS; Israel is ANYONE who struggles/wrestles and clings to The Divine and not just a man made geographical state.

Jesus also was never a Christian.

In fact the term ‘Christian’ was not even coined until the days of Paul, about 3 decades after Jesus walked the earth as a man.

Jesus was a social justice, radical revolutionary Palestinian devout Jewish road warrior who rose up and challenged the job security of the Temple authorities by teaching the people they did NOT need to pay the priests for ritual baths or sacrificing livestock to be OK with God;

For God already LOVED them just as they were:

sinners, poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under Roman Military Occupation.

What got Jesus crucified was disturbing the status quo of the Roman Occupying Forces by teaching the subversive concept that Caesar only had power because God allowed it and that God preferred the humble sinner, the poor, diseased, outcasts, widows, orphans, refugees and prisoners all living under Roman Occupation above the elite and arrogant.

The early followers and lovers of Jesus were called members of THE WAY-being THE WAY he taught one must be to be a child of God;

Nonviolent, a Peacemaker and one who does the will of the Father.

“What does God require? He has told you o’man! Be just, be merciful, and walk humbly with your Lord.” -Micah 6:8

Eileen Fleming, Citizen Journalist and Founder WAWA:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
Author “Keep Hope Alive”
“Memoirs of a Nice Irish American ‘Girl’s’ Life in Occupied Territory”
“So, That was 54...”
Producer “30 Minutes With Vanunu” and “13 Minutes with Vanunu”

Dovey, as usual, I concur with Shenonymous.  Please use the space a little more wisely. :D

You said: “ I was looking for posts which actually addressed some of the points of the article but to no avail.  Please leave space for others to comment! “

Let me sum it all up for you.  There isn’t a shred of evidence that Jesus existed..none.  There is the politically mandated scriptures that speak of this rebel from 2k years ago, but all have been carefully and completely refuted by historians and scholars.  They are not valid.  The topic is Jesus, man or myth.  He is obviously myth. 

To explain god--any god, you must first define what it is.  And this case since no one has seen nor heard from Bible god turned Jesus, you may as well say that X created the universe and all the people.  Because no god nor Jesus can be validated.  Therein lies the conundrum that has the world in upheaval.  To believe or not to believe?  It depends.  Which one scares you more?

Your floor.

Did you notice Dovey that you wasted one of your self-imposed limit of ten posts with your useless complaint and now only have nine?  You don’t seem to understand the nature of these forums.  They are a meeting place for personal discussions about as many topics as there are articles.  I personally don’t mind how long one wants to wax on a topic; hopefully it will be on the topic of the article or close to it.  No one is breaking your arm to visit these forums.  This particular one has been going for a very long time.  It is mostly a conversation between tgambill and Annie Reitano and I occasionally chime in and a few others make a biffbam comment now and then but never really engage in a conversation.  I happen to enjoy the theatrical interaction between tgambill and Annie and have learned a great deal about the insanity of the religion and the gullibility of people who become indoctrinated with the various permutations of dogma, which is part of what theater is supposed to do, educate.  Miss Reitano is a virtual encyclopedia about the Christian religion who has had an epiphany about the relatively permanent disorder of the mind of the religious. tgambill represents those who have that permanent disorder.  Which camp are you in? 

If you have a comment to make about the article I’m sure we would all be interested in reading it, or if it is uninteresting, I’m also sure someone will say so.  So far you haven’t said anything important.

Warnings from world leaders all within 72 hours
“Australian PM Kevin Rudd - “Nuke strike would make 9/11 insignificant” and other weird warnings”

“Over the last 72 hours there has been a strange melange of cryptic messages leaked from world political leaders about what could be in store for America over the next few months.

These predictions of impending doom come from England, France, Australia and the United States.

Biden told the top Democratic donors that a “generated crisis” will develop within six months and Barak Obama will need the help of community leaders to control the population as unpopular decisions are made and Americans resist.

http://www.thejerusalemgiftshop.com/israelnews/politic s/80-political/335-warnings-from-world-leaders-all-within-7 2-hours-.html

Annie, you’ve mopped nothing but your salvation.  It’s not my problem by any stretch.  If you want to believe that you have “mopped” then so be it. 

You know why I don’t respond with insults and such?  There is 100% chance that no matter what evidence, good sense or good arguments are made, along with the insults and Ad homid...lol...there comes a negative response, no matter what.

You are projecting my reactions that are just not there.  I’m not ticked off at all.  There is no reasong to be ticked off or angry....or frustrated.  All I have to do is stop writing or project face saving insults or comments of bravado and just move on.  Whether you believe me or not is not my personal concern and won’t effect me in any way.  I’m just passing on what is said in the Bible.  Its your free choice about what you do with your life.......

Simple.........

Tom

Which websites are those?  Tell me.  I would love to go there.  I do my own studying, Tom.  I think that’s what ticks you off. So don’t project what you do to fill in the gaps onto me. 

Spin and spin indeed.  We’ve mopped the floor with your prepostorous ideations of gods and monsters.

I’ve given you the truth, Annie has given patented and old issues that any atheist can give as they are listed on websites.  Skill comes when the atheist expounds on the alleged contradictions or issues and then uses the 25 disinformation tactics that are utilized.  Again, you can spin and spin a top in many directions but the truth will remain steadfast.

You people are trained well.  The education system in fact is controlled by the counsel on foreign relations to the extent that they train teachers to dumb down the students.  The Rockefellers started this as far back as the 1920s to now.  It is organized and played out to eliminate national sovereignty and Christian values, and principles. 

Its been nice, its time to enjoy the PM as you folks pat each other.  I must say that you folks are determined in protecting your site.  The truth will be made manifest when it is least expected.

The distortions are very sneaky and cleverly written to distract and mislead. 

2 Thessalonians 2:11
And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Christians will be seriously mislead as this verse is talking about.  It also includes Atheist but it includes Christians as well. They worship Mary, the Pope, images in trees, or “grilled cheese sandwiches of Mary”, they will believe in the lie about UFO’s that will take on a new meaning to the new messiah, the list goes on and on concerning the deception that even Christians will believe. 

Christians would be shocked to know that the Laura Spelman Rockefeller Memorial was more than history tells us.  It was initially devoted to “charity” and support of churches.  As soon as it got public attention it was diverted, its money’s went to the support of subversion and the Illuminist-Communist conspiracy under the direction of Beardsley Rumi.  Now, here comes the clincher that will send the “Christians” on my tail as well as you atheist.  They also launched Billy Sunday on his evangelical revivalism in that particular era and in 1955 era, BILLY GRAHAM.  Adam Weishaupt [google him], taught his followers the value of using “religion” and “philanthropy” as a cover for the conspiracy.  As a matter of fact, Naval Intelligence in 1936 pronounced the Federal Counsil of Churches of Christ ran by Rockefellers kinsman, John Foster Dulles [reference Dulles Airport, the namesake], to be one of the most dangerous subversive institutions in the country.  Hence, even today Billy Graham, Robert Shueller, Copeland, Hagee, Joel Osteen, Braizer, Paisley, Pearson, TD Jakes, Benny Hinn, and many more have fallen away and moving toward the New Age Religion supported by the New Age Movement.  This will be the religion of the coming anti-christ.  FACT........run a comparison of doctrine between the New Age Movement and Nazism.  They are identical.  surprise!!!!

http://www.hsnp.com/gok/bible3.html

http://www.forgottenword.org/kjvvsniv.html

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/kjvdefns.htm

Your god will get you for your lies tgambill.  Truth?  Truth? you wouldn’t recognize it if it was a Garden of Eden snake that bit you in the ask real questions please.  The only reason the snake was in the Garden was because your god put it there. And the only reason, according to your Bible, the snake was identified with the devil was because it dared to defy the god.  Horray for da debble. Da debble got balls.  Well maybe.  If there was a debble. 

I haven’t the foggiest notion what you are talking about Atheist 101? What the hell is that?  Another one of your figments?  I am an educated post graduate in philosophy and critical thinking.  An atheist, absolutely.  And none of your incessant blathering has ever shown any credence or evidence.  You keep spouting this and that but never ever can go outside your one version of the bible or to some arcane YouTube biblebanger.  It is quite entertaining to watch you completely dashed over and over again by the brilliant Annie Reitano.  And every once in a while I will add something to the fray since it is amazing to watch you slip and slide in the mud of the mind.

“Satan provides many different philosophical truths and spins that he provides in our lives to hide the truth of our creation and Jesus Christ as our redeeming savior.”

Have you ever seen Satan?  Please provide evidence for these radical statements.  Not proof, just evidence.  You know, the kind that science offers.

There is no Atheism 101, Tom.  Atheism is a name given for disbelief in deities.  Not just your’s--all of them.  But there ARE many different religious groups that you’ve surely joined that could supply us with some evidence.  Thank you very much in advance.

Sheno, It doesn’t matter the levels of truth.  There is but one truth.  The Butler either pulled the trigger or he didn’t.  Its that simple.  Satan provides many different philosophical truths and spins that he provides in our lives to hide the truth of our creation and Jesus Christ as our redeeming savior. 

It is simplifed when we can sit here and write back and forth, use the internet etc....but there is coming a time that the truth will be in all our faces when the supernatural makes it debut. 

The quote came from a blog, in a similar conversation.  No matter where it came from its true.  I could of just copy pasted it and called it my own, however, not necessary and wouldn’t do that.  Using the web site that I got other information from is provided in much the same way you use the patented Atheist’s issues that are used to provide points of contention that they teach you in Atheist 101.

And here it is: By tgambill, November 9 at 7:46 am #

“The translations were done carefully and diligently so as not to distort the true word of God.  However, after the KJV was written soon other translations were made that were distorted in very small ways to mislead under the guise of “making it easier to read”......

By tgambill, November 9 at 2:56 pm #

TOM WROTE:
*God wrote the Bible but then after the KJV, conspirators changed things around to “make it easier”.*

“Predictable, but nice try to distract from truth”.
*****************************************************
Distract from the truth indeed. I was quoting you.

tgambill, there are no less than eleven theories of truth.  They are:
Substantive Theories of Truth: correspondence theory, coherence theory, constructivist theory, consensus theory; then there are the two Pragmatic Theories of Truth: performative theory of truth and the redundancy, et al, theories; as well as the Formal Theories of Truth: truth in logic, truth in mathematics, semantic theory of truth, and Kripke’s theory of truth, which contends that natural language contains its own truth implications but never defines truth or falsehood and tends to prefer falsehood.  To which of these theories of truth do you subscribe? (Now I know it cannot be the truth in mathematics, duh that is sooo too obvious, but I had to add it in since it is a theory of truth).  BTW: you never said where your quote came from in your last post.

I found a quote that applies here very well....

I quote, “Actually, this is indirectly related to the previous quote. The world is looking for a worldly explanation of God. Unfortunately, a worldly explanation does not sufficiently explain or fit God.

The only issue believers have with non-believers is where they are going to spend eternity. It is not our job to “prove” God exists, God does that for himself. We merely tell people about God’s grace and forgiveness and the consequences of neglecting to receive them. Those who recognize their need for forgiveness and accept it from God need no further proof of his existence.” END QUOTE

I couldn’t have said it any better, so this suffices.  Ya’all have a nice day now, the sun is still up and its time from brunch.

BTW, the reason others can talk circles around Bible believers is because there are new Christians that start too soon to take on deceivers and liars.  One response we teach police or security personnel while dealing with a Defense lawyer on the stand works applies here.  The lawyer states his point in an effort to confuse truth, but its a spin and he reminds the Officer that he is under oath.  The Officer replys, “Counselor, I am aware that I am under oath, however, I’m also aware that you aren’t.”

In other words, you folks can twist and turn Gods word and mold it anyway you want, however, you cannot change truth no matter how much paint you use.

*God wrote the Bible but then after the KJV, conspirators changed things around to “make it easier”.*

****No assumptions or spins will change the truth. As I said before, you and I are nowhere alike in our beliefs from the past.  As a matter of fact, my veil of deceit was lifed when I discovered the truth that was hidden in my past.  Everything from the true purpose of our Constitution to this fake war on terror, I learned the truth and most all of it is contrary to what is written or what we were taught in High School to College to the organized and orchestrated lies from the main stream media, as dictated by the Counsel On Foreign Relations our true government and policy makers. 

Predictable, but nice try to distract from truth.

Tom, shouldn’t you be in church?  haha

You just did a tremendous job of googling through xian apologetics just to come up with the answer that yes, god did promise Abraham the land of Israel, which the Bible does say that he did and with NO conditions at all that are written.  i.e. “But you won’t see the land, your gandkids will”.  It’s not in there.  And then Abraham dies without seeing his inheritance?  That’s laughable, Tom. What was the point in telling Abraham about something he would never see?  If you told me I was going to win the lotto jackpot and then I never saw it, I would die knowing you were a con-man.  And th book of ACTS is lightyears from the OT. It’s an entirely different story.  Face it, god was an indian-giver.  What makes you think you will inherit heaven?  Because he said so via his scribes?  I wouldn’t swear to it if I were you. haha

As for the rest of it, it’s so easy to see how you betray the truth of your own mind.  *God wrote the Bible but then after the KJV, conspirators changed things around to “make it easier”.* Yet the KJV writers didn’t even know a bat from a bird.  So, I guess your god needs a lesson in Mammology.  Remedial courses might be best. :D What about the hare and the coney that supposedly chew their cud?  God didn’t know that one either?

I think the funniest thing about the “center” of your Bible saying “It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man” is that a man wrote that!  haha Yet here you are, putting confidence in his words.

TOM:******Primitive and provincial?  The book is applicable even up to today and its over 2,000 years old, relative to the authors of the Bible.  There are 66 books, written by 40 authors who were eyewitnesses, and written over a 1,600 year period.”

Were you an eyewitness?  No. If you were, you would have seen children stoned to death for rebellion, and you would have killed your own in compliance with the Law.  And you would have sold your virgin daughter to the highest bidder. So, if it’s applicable today than I am guessing your wife wears a head covering, no make-up or jewels, and you’ve killed one or more of your own children.

Next you tell me that god does not change his mind.  Would you then, kindly explain the following ONE verse in the Bible? (don’t want to inundate your studies).

“So the Lord changed his mind and did not bring on his people the disaster he threatened.” - Exodus 32:14

Just explain that one to me, please and thank you.  You know, Tom, I am a little surprised at how long it takes you to answer Biblical questions that I knew the answers to as a kid.  Truth.  But I know why you do it.  I used to do the same thing. I would twist and turn and look and look for a reason that made sense so that Jesus WOULD be real.  I have told people before than in all honesty, I have never had my heartbroken by any man except this Jesus character--whose relationship with me was like so many tangible ones--fake.  It took me two years to get over it after three years of dancing like you’re doing.  You can spout dogma, but your Biblical prose isn’t even close to what mine was THEN..and I still coudln’t make a square peg fit into that round hole called “god"--no matter how hard I tried.  The men on death row gave me quite a time.  Then it was other atheists and agnostics that could talk circles around the utter nonsense of the Bible.  It hurt really bad, and like you, I wanted to cover it up like a thief talking to the cops by studying and prying this verse from here to add it to there when the fit just wasn’t a good one at all.  But eventually and after extensive studying...I had to give up and admit that the Bible is no more true than the Koran, and that I had been duped just like Muslims.  That was a painful day.  True story!

Relative to the question about Abraham, in context God gave the land to Abraham and his seed.  The land was eventually possessed by the children of Israel or more specifically Abraham’s grandson. Yet, in Acts, God did not give Abraham personally an inheritance on the land on a personal basis. The main point was that Abraham died in faith, even though he had not obtained the title deed to the property to pass on to his children. But eventually his descendents did get the land.  To answer this even further, I can’t resist pointing out that this point is much deeper than just who occupies the land.  As if you would, you might want to look at Galatians 3:14 which says what the real blessing of Abraham is.  The seed of Abraham is identified in verse 16.  Go ahead and compare with Hebrews 11:39-40 and 12:1-2. This is what Hebrews means when it says they did not receive the promises, according to the context.  Yes, of course the land was the literal land and the seed was the literal descendents of Abraham and yes they did get their inheritance and now they are also on it again or at least part of it.  At the same time, Galatians and Hebrews are also true. 

You also made a point concerning the issue as to whether God changes his mind.  The answer is, “No.” But He does respond to people’s situations and their conduct, in compassion and in wrath, and therefore can be grieved when they do evil.

You also asked about bats, birds and et al…well, linean classification was not available when Leviticus and Deuteronomy were written, nor did a specific scientific definition for what a bird was existed.  The classification of animals was made by how they functioned and their basic form.  They had not formed the Bird watching society yet.  ) This can be seen in the definition of words used to describe animals in the Old Testament.  The world we use for example, “fowl” comes from the Hebrew word owph which means flying creatures, to include birds, winged insects, and any animal that owns a wing.  It comes from a root word that means to cover or to fly.  The verses that refer to this could rightly be interpreted, “And these are they which ye shall have in abomination among flying creatures....”.  The King James Version seems to call the bat a fowl, but when you understand the times in which it was written, and the meaning of the original Hebrew, it’s obvious there is no error here.

I gave you the simple answers as to address all the others would be a waste of time as I have more important research to do today.  You can of course take it as a submission but this would be a deluded view and I might add, arrogrant mindset as well.  All your retort can be dealt with, however, is it worth the time for me to do the research and soul searching that you should be doing since its your soul that will be spending an eternity in some place.  Your spirit is eternal from the day of birth.  Its your choice where you spend it when the time comes and you cross over to that new life.

I seem to recall shenonnie saying....

“What are those three godly missions?  When you have more time this weekend, please answer comprehensively as I am having a very hard time intuiting what you are saying.  And tgambill, I really am trying.”

) I really am trying??  hardly.  You are misleading and full of venom and use a lot of trickery. 

“It is your own myth you quack/speak tgambill.”

****Not my own myth.  I only give you what millions already know.  Its not that difficult. 

“You offer nothing helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment.”

*****:)) of course Imaginet that! 

“There is not even probable cause since your opinion is not elevated above anybody else’s.”

****Neither is Dawkins or that other nutbag,

Here you go........for you
http://www.atheists.org/wintersolstice.html

“It is sheer conceit to think yours is The Truth and The Only Truth.”

****conceit or confidence built on faith.  I’ll take the latter.  the Bible is not hearsay, it is written from translated works that comes from eyewitnesses.  The last book was written around AD 70 and the the ones before were from the actual people themselves that witnessed the events...hence the word eyewitness. 

Evolution is an unproven theory and even Darwin saw it as not really feasible unless certain assumptions were true.  The Luciferians and Atheist jumped on the train and started putting coal in the engine heading nowhere. 

Man’s evolved Morals?????  You are kidding right?

“Redemption is not required.”

*****The Creator sees it differently.  So, until you or anyone else can create your own universe, I’ll stay with Jesus Christ. 

“The real good news is that humankind’s consciousness allows them to see into what can give them a meaningful and moral life.”

******????  Your humor is boundless.  Which planet are you speaking of. 

“If you quack like a duck, you are a duck. For no human in his or her right mind would quack like a duck.”

*******I tend to disagree.  Our collection of politicans and international bankers are quacking quite a bit and I can promise that their “duck” is just about getting ready to get cooked.

If I wanted I would simply google the right sites and provide you with pat answers to your contrived questions. 

http://debate.org.uk/topics/apolog/contrads.htm

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html

or even better we can cut to the chase....

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/bible.htm#97

I do my own research.

It is your own myth you quack/speak tgambill.  You offer nothing helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment.  There is not even probable cause since your opinion is not elevated above anybody else’s.  It is sheer conceit to think yours is The Truth and The Only Truth.  All you offer is hearsay and undemonstrated assertions.  It is symptomatic of what cannot be unauthenticated.  Your protestations are witness to that.  What sets man apart from the animal world is that humankind through evolution developed consciousness and morals. 

Redemption is not required.  The real good news is that humankind’s consciousness allows them to see into what can give them a meaningful and moral life.

If you quack like a duck, you are a duck. For no human in his or her right mind would quack like a duck.

“You seem to have congenital blindness to truth.”

quite the contrary.  Most of your truths, relative to the subject matter, is based on theory and in every case ever changing depending on what man is “alleged” to have discovered or based on the latest man made revelation for how we exist.  To think that nothing existed before this and this nothing that existed, life evolved?  by pure accident?  to think that 2,000 enzymes were in the right place in a pool at the right temperature and formed the first “cell” that evolved into what, is almost ridiculous.  As I have said before it is the same as saying a tornado entered a junk yard and by the shear force of its winds puts together a perfectly running automobile.....

“Man must save himself from his foibles and die a peaceful death.”

*****To say that man must save himself, he must ask himself, save from what?  Man doesn’t even know what to save himself from much less how......Man cannot create nor can he destroy.  He can only change the shape of what is already created.....

This life we are living is finite.  We were created physically by the will of God from the beginning.  He created Adam from his will after creating the necessary conditions to sustain the animal and human life.  He created man in his image.  This means in the simplest terms, that we were made to resemble God. Adam did not resemble God in the sense of God’s having flesh and blood. Scripture says that “God is a spirit” (John 4:24) and therefore exists without a body. However, Adam’s body did mirror the life of God, insofar as it was created in perfect health and was not subject to death. 

The image of God refers to the immaterial part of man. It sets man apart from the animal world, fits him for the “dominion” God intended (Genesis 1:28), and enables him to commune with his Maker. It is a likeness mentally, morally, and socially.

This is why God came to Earth in the form of Jesus so that he might be able to communicate with man. 

Adam had the capacity to make free choices as this was part of his creation and plan.  Although he was given a righteous nature, Adam made an evil choice to rebel against his Maker. In so doing, Adam marred the image of God within himself, and he passed that damaged likeness on to all his children, including us (Romans 5:12). Today, we still bear the image of God (James 3:9), but we also bear the scars of sin. Mentally, morally, socially, and physically, we show the effects.

The good news is that, when God redeems an individual, He begins to restore the original image of God, creating “the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness” (Ephesians 4:24; see also Colossians 3:10).  This was the reason that Jesus [God in human form] came into this world.  He was the second son of God but born of a virgin birth as Mary was from the line of David, the true line of God.  Joseph was not from the royal line.  This was by the way the purpose of the Nephilim mating with the daughters of man in order to corrupt the seed of the royal line so that the coming messiah would not be of the direct royal bloodline.  Jesus was the only “begotten” son of God, he was God in human form, died and rose again to save us from our sins.  He exceeds the status of Prophet.  He is Gods way of communicating with his children, us; on a personal basis.  Its like I see a flock of ducks getting ready to cross a four lane highway.  Death is certain and I want to save them. If I run to them as a human, yelling at them and flailing my arms they will run, not understanding that I want to save them.  However, I’m not God but as God, I would change myself into a duck and even though my life is also in danger I would then go to them as one of them and lead them to safety....but talking like a duck.  hence it it walks like a duck, it talks like a duck, looks like a duck it must be one of us lets follow that duck that is leading the way.

She is a pronoun for the female of a species.  Too too obvious.

You seem to have congenital blindness to truth.  It is no matter as there are many who would take myths as truth and will live their entire lives deluded.  That too is no matter since all of existence has untold millions of those who would not take their own responsibility for their lives.  Thereby utterly relinquishing responsibility for their fellow man.  You just fall into that sea of the mindless blustering about with theories of fear and personal destruction by some supernatural force that obvious in your version is by its very nature schizophrenic, being on the one hand jealous, conceited, and destructive of the very thing it created, and on the other hand through some absolutely unneeded weird virgin birth incarnation, supposedly benevolent, forgiving, and allowing prodigals to return to the deific bosom.  Truly crazymaking at its finest.  Man must save himself from his foibles and die a peaceful death.

The exact center of the Bible is Psalms 118:8.  Happy coincidence that it says, “It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man”.  It also interesting that the Bible gives exact prophesy into itself written over the 1,600 period without any mistake of fact, but it also provides prophesy of what is going on today with the New World Order as its’ happening right in front of us.

Nice double speak.  True, I was assuming that you are male, however this has nothing to do with the “I am woman” issue.  It has to do with the name which in my thinking it was male.....and nothing to do with the assignment of an intelligent conversation with a male responder.  What I said stands and this distracting retort won’t work.  You purposely missed the point. 

Granted, I just don’t want to set at the computer and write off the top of my head as I do careful research.  However, I have another life and other research that I detail.  I don’t see spending my time here as signficant but an exercise to dig deeper, but to write in order to change your mind or sway your opinion would in my opinion be an exercise of futility as only a supernatural event would give you a clue.  You can imagine that the people of those days saw the incredible miracles and still didn’t believe. 

“You came back with nothing more than another conspiracy theory designed to scare people into your made truth.”

*****The Conspiracy theory that I give you cannot be refuted as they are based on actual documented events.  To think the events and links with the money powers and political figures lived in a vacuum, you are naive.  People are mostly in denial and just don’t want to accept the truth about this luciferian conspiracy that is right in their face.  The history books are in fact fabricated and worthless as this can be proved beyond a shadow of a doubt. 

“That’s hardly a fair and level playing field.  I could use Zeitgeist as a way to say “see!  I told you so!” But I don’t know that all of Zeitgeist is believable. I’d never swear to the astrological parts.”

*****All of Zeitgeist is not true.  The technique they use is to give a high percentage of truth and then do a swing from truth.  Its very clever. They are true to the political events but it tends to be leaning towards the New Age Movement and the occult. 

“You just seem hell bent on believing what men say instead of what you know to be true.”

******NO. The trick in the study of the true Luciferian conspiracy is to find references pre-1990 and find the same “notion” or “statement of fact” in three or more references that say the same thing and are unrelated in the use of their references.  If I knew history as you say then I would be divine as I would have to use my supernatural powers to actually know the past.  Helloooooo.....

“But the Bible is not without some merit.  The truth shall set you free is a true enough statement.  I would never go so far as to say that the writers of said book were entirely stupid--just primitive and provincial in their thinking.”

******Primitive and provincial?  The book is applicable even up to today and its over 2,000 years old, relative to the authors of the Bible.  There are 66 books, written by 40 authors who were eyewitnesses, and written over a 1,600 year period.  It was translated from the Hebrew and Greek languages but done carefully.  There are inconsistencies in some areas as to misplacement of punucuation or numbers etc....but there are no contradictions of events happening.  If I say there were 10 in one part, but in another book I write 100, there is a difference in numbers but the fact it happened is the point.  It also can be attributed to the authors view point or time frame.  However the fact the event happened is not refuted.  They wrote what they saw, and not behind the doors writing a novel.  The authors experienced the events and experienced insight from God as to his teachings.  The translations were done carefully and diligently so as not to distort the true word of God.  However, after the KJV was written soon other translations were made that were distorted in very small ways to mislead under the guise of “making it easier to read”......

Your simile tgambill about knowing truth is a chimera. Let’s take the idea of truth.  You seem to think it is one thing.  There is but one truth and no other way If so, you cannot then say If the truth is displayed with pictures, testimony and witnesses... even if it can be refuted as you indicate, you are saying it can be displayed in plural ways.  If truth is one thing then it must be displayed singularly for what it is.  To be recognized as truth, it must remain fixed and unmoving.  It cannot change just because it is viewed with confused eyes, or mind, in this case.  The confusion comes when applying personal or relative coherences of reality to the Ideal of Truth.

If you feel blindsided by Shenonymous (me, who actually is a woman, and therein lies an assumption erroneously made by you which shows you are prone to make assumptions with no facts.  Is it because you erroneously think that only men have “high intellect,” which further shows a sexist view of life?).  Is it only you who may quote the bible?  Are you the only one allowed to know anything about it?  You are an effete to be sure with that attitude.  You don’t like my biblical quote because it does not fit your absurd paradigm.  You don’t like to see the truth of the bible as witnessed by your incessant argument with Annie Raitano who obviously knows the bible immeasurably better than you and can quote rings around you.  You refuse to answer Ms. Raitano, why?  Because you have no real answers but blather and blather.  So you admit to being frustrated.  Frustration comes from having no answers!  You call the biblical quote I gave as false, a false authority.  You contradict yourself and betray your own thinking.

I repeat my biblical quote because it is THE one quote that is worth anything in the bible.  The rest are moralizing and that is relative to the society in which questions of morals come up.

You cannot know the mind of god, it says so in your bible, 1 Corinthians 2:11.  Therefore, anything you or any other human attributes to god is a lie.  To speak for god is a heresy and to say what god desires is a heresy.

You find this quote repulsive and frustrating because you continually interpret the mind of god. 

But back to the idea of truth, one truth.  Truth in the way you are talking is an ideal.  Ideals are models or paradigms and as an entity does not exist alone and in itself, it is an idea and exist in the same way that ideas exist.  There are truths, in the plural. And finding them is the task for each human.  Not what is true for themselves but what is closest in reality to that ideal truth.  The human consciousness has set up many ideals.  The good, beauty, perfection, justice and so forth.  They are the purest condition of the set of virtues.  There is no one truth that you an experience.  You can only experience what pretends to be the truth.  Truthlets, if you will.  I like that...truthlets.  Now that is funny.  What you experience are truthlets.  Levity instead of gravity is my motto.  Better to be in the realm of Plato’s angels (hahaha) than in the realm of pigs.

I don’t see how you could possibly be inundated to the point of frustration, Tom, unless it’s YOU who feels that you are the ultimate authority and you’re afraid because you know I will show you why you’re wrong.  I AM very good with Biblical debate.

Besides, I said-"pick only two” so that you wouldn’t be overwhelmed.  But I see you are. You came back with nothing more than another conspiracy theory designed to scare people into your made truth. That’s hardly a fair and level playing field.  I could use Zeitgeist as a way to say “see!  I told you so!” But I don’t know that all of Zeitgeist is believable. I’d never swear to the astrological parts. 

You just seem hell bent on believing what men say instead of what you know to be true.  I understand it. I have been there.  But the Bible is not without some merit.  The truth shall set you free is a true enough statement.  I would never go so far as to say that the writers of said book were entirely stupid--just primitive and provincial in their thinking.

As I said before, knowing the truth is a disadvantage in some cases.  Knowing truth is like being trapped in a canyon and being hit with an ambush.  There is but one truth and no other way.  A lie or spin has many different ways it can go.  If the truth is displayed with pictures, testimony and witnesses it can still be refuted due to denial, fear, misdirection, deception, attacks, insults etc...but, the truth remains firm.  You people have all kind of tricks. 

Sheno, uses insults and his “high intellect” mixed with antagonistic responses.  You like to innudate the debater with providing proofs thereby causing the unsuspecting responder to become frustrated with the volume of requested proofs.  Its a simple and for some effective technique.  You also offer this false, in my opinion, false authority or expert opinion about the Bible to providing you the blanket of authority that just isn’t there. 

I’ll answer this one tomorrow about the promises.

Better take heed…

The summary of the NWO, credible commentators and very good video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJsG3czl1aY&feature =related

It is late, however, I have two already answered and will post them tomorrow morning.  I will use this as a study lesson, and at the same time clearly demonstrate your method of spinning the truth.  Its the same as the propoents of the NWO, they spin truth as this is easy.  To take responsibility for telling the truth is not spin there is only one truth.  As I said before, your responses highlights your weak position and you use your patented spins.  Its funny how you people can use different spins for the same “Point” showing your lack of knowledge.  The truth is told and it stops.  A lie is like a snake slithering along the trail.

Spun the truth?  By quoting the Bible?  Yea, it spins truth alright. But you’re still not answering; and the reason should be obvious to anyone with a thinking mind. You can’t.  How do you bridge the gap between the lies and contradictions of the book you claim is ultimate truth when clearly it is not?

You proseletyse your own truth.

It matters not how many eyes are watching.  All those eyes watching have souls that will be judged individually.  No matter what I write, you have a distinct advantage.  You will answer falsely and using spins that those eyes will like anyway.  The other eyes that have Jesus in their heart will know the answer already. 

You have another advantage, I have truth on my side and it can’t be spun.  However, a person that will spin the truth can take many different directions but they are all false. The lie has many different paths but the truth has but one.

It won’t be me that shows the world the answers, it will be the salvation of the living God that will convict and judge them when the time comes.  According to Daniel 9:24 we can know the season but we cannot know the day or the hour of his return. I can give pat answers but ultimately it boils down to their personal acceptance of Jesus Christ.

You’re belabouring the issue just as I knew you would.  Please pick any TWO contradictions and then let’s see your expertise on the Bible.  That’s fair. It’s time to show the world, Tom.  Who knows how many eyes are watching?

Just two.  Go ahead.

Your tactic doesn’t work as well.  You need to study the Bible as its your soul that is in the red zone. 

Secondly, there isn’t a scare tactic.  Its like a parent telling you if you do this then this is going to happen.  Its better than not knowing and you violate the rules so to speak you and a big surprise comes your way.  “If I had only known”.  the sentence will be carried out, its a warning not a scare tactic.

Ok Tom.  The scare tactic didn’t work.  Been there, done that. Sweet try though. If I do twist the scripture, please (and don’t belabour the issue) which of these statements are more true?

God promises Abraham the land of Canaan. Gen.17:8.

Abraham died without gaining the promise. Acts 7:2-5; Heb.11:8,13.

God tempts. Gen.22:1.

Satan tempts. 1 Cor.7:5.
God allows temptation. Job 1:8-12; Job 2:3-7.

God tempts no one. Jms.1:13.

God murders and kills. Num.31:7,17; Deut.20:16,17;
Josh.10:40; Jud.14:19; Ezek.9:5,6; Num.11:33.

God is angry. Num.32:14; Num.25:3,4; Deut.6:15;
Deut.9:7,8; Deut.29:20; Deut.32:21; Ps.7:11; Ps.78:49; Jer.4:8; Jer.17:4; Jer.32:30,31; Zeph.2:2; 2 Sam.22:8,9; Ezek.6:12.

God is love and peace. 2 Cor.13:11,14; 1 Jn.4:8,16; Rom.15:33.

God’s spirit inspires love, peace, etc. Gal.5:22,23.

God never changes. Mal.3:6.

God approves the making of vows. Num.30:1,2.

Jesus forbids the making of vows. Mt.5:33-37.

“God” and “Jesus” are one in the same. Jn.10:30

Take your time.  I have given you something to work with.  Go ahead and answer.

The wisdom comes from the Bible, its easy.  Truth from the Bible, not spins and deception.

Annie, you understand scripture for one reason, to be able to deceive and not be redeemed.  I have to say, this will bring on more wrath because God forbids those that know the truth but distorts it to deceive.  You don’t have discernment for truth as you are deceived yourself and don’t know it.

Tom: “You are prescribing human terms and understanding to the creator of this universe for goodness sake.  He created the universe with just his command.  We as humans have no capacity to understand this, yet”.

If we mere mortals can’t understand it, why are you telling us all about it as if it is fact?  Are you a self proclaimed prophet? C’mon, Tom, you know I won’t drink the purple kool-aid ;P

You have just shown evidence that supports the agnostics. Can’t know, so why bother?

Tom: “It all changed when Jesus came as the prophets foretold.....annie you don’t understand the Bible in its wholeness.  You read to find contradictions or verses to make into contradictions that works for new Christians, but not for those that knows the scriptures.”

But I thought Jesus was God in the flesh and he never changed his mind?  haha It appears he changed his whole personality just so he could get flogged and hung on a crucifix---only to lose again as he will NEVER win the whole world.  No one will. Not any of the perceived deities, not Jesus--who I doubt even existed.

And Tom, I studied scripture and dogma (much like Nelson) for 40 years.  I would bet I know and understand it better than you by far.  What you are proseltying here is Protestant dogma.  Your verbiage is NOT the original xianity anyway! 

As for the contradictions, they came later.  I started finding inexplicable lies first.

Mere mortals that are right with God will be given discernment and wisdom that comes from God.  This has been talked about before in these last few days if you recall.  He gives his own wisdom and the knowledge necessary to understand all that is necessary.  Secondly, Jesus was God in human form.  The Bible was supernaturally inspired by the Will and Spirit of God as the authors were a combination of eyewitnesses, visions and inspiration as one gets to know his voice as one gets closer to God.

Theatre of the Absurd
tgambill says: He created the universe with just his command.  We as humans have no capacity to understand this, yet.

She:  Do you really believe this?

tgambill says in reply: 100%, absolutely.  Satan has done much to deceive us from truth.  By the way, Disney is an offshoot member of the Illuminati and a dealer in the Occult

She:  Okay.  If so, then if it is 100% true that we have no capacity to understand, then there is no reason to believe what any mere mortal says, because we cannot understand no matter what is said a god thinks or does.  It is a useless exercise in absurdity.

100%, absolutely.  Satan has done much to deceive us from truth.  By the way, Disney is an offshoot member of the Illuminati and a dealer in the Occult.

“I don’t need forgiveness from a god who doesn’t even have the decency to treat his “children” well”

*****He gave his human life, suffered pain, humiliation at those he came to save, died a horrible death and rose again from death to be the perfect savior.  God is just and essentially took his own medicine so that we might live.  Romans 10:9.  Its not that you have a choice as to whether you need forgiveness or not.  Yes, you have free will, and your choices determine where you will spend eternity.  We are rebellious children that have been brought into this world.  You need salvation and forgiveness to spend an eternity in Heaven.  If the decision is not to spend an eternity in Heaven he will grant you that wish you will then spend an eternity in Hell depending on what you did in this life.  The best seat in Hell is the last place you want to be.  It is divided into dimensions. 

If there were not Hell there would be no justice or love for his children.  There has to be a Hell for God to be a just God. 

The theories...they debunk themselves.....annie, they are all theories.  Nothing they say is certain, its all theory.  That is the point.  There is nothing to debunk.  They are “self-debunking"…

“HAHA High ten, my friend!  Way up high!  He shoots, he scores.  Poor Nelson owned!!  :D”

*****Annie, hate to ruin your moment, but not so.  Those Christians that indeed do these things are not Christians at all.  They will be judged harsher than a rapist or serial killer. 

Here is the Word of God for those Christians that you named…

Mt 7:

So by their fruits you will know them.
21
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, 10 but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven.
22
Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name? Did we not drive out demons in your name? Did we not do mighty deeds in your name?’
23
Then I will declare to them solemnly, ‘I never knew you. 11 Depart from me, you evildoers.’

tgambill says: He created the universe with just his command.  We as humans have no capacity to understand this, yet.

Do you really believe this?

You are prescribing human terms and understanding to the creator of this universe for goodness sake.  He created the universe with just his command.  We as humans have no capacity to understand this, yet.  The Lord giveth and the Lord can take away.  We are renters here, and can’t even create the simplist of cells much less understand how they are really created.  Scientist flounder around with their theories but they will never understand nor be able to explain with any degree of certainity much of anything about how creation really came about, not even one in all of history.  NOT ONE.

God sees the whole elephant, we as humans only can describe the elephant either from the trunk the hoof or the tale or some part.....never the whole elephant.

God will not allow sin in this world.  He designed and created it and he will clean it.  Man does this to himself as the law is laid out.  Because Salvation was not available in the Old Testament, mankind was under the LAW or judgment of God.  The rules had to be harsh.  It all changed when Jesus came as the prophets foretold.....annie you don’t understand the Bible in its wholeness.  You read to find contradictions or verses to make into contradictions that works for new Christians, but not for those that knows the scriptures.

By tgambill, November 7 at 10:00 am #

I don’t need forgiveness from a god who doesn’t even have the decency to treat his “children” well and not drown them like some psychotic Andrea Yates mental case.  I am more moral than the scribes who wrote him into history.

And if all of those scientific faux pas’ can be debunked---by all means, show me. You’ve typed out long posts before.  But be careful, I have more where those came from. :D

Shenonymous,
“As far as abortions go, it is not only many atheists, but many believers in god accept abortion as not only legal but appropriate in cases where some fucking father has incestuously impregated his own daughter, or a brother, or an uncle, or some idiot other non-related penis-brained male has impregnated a female child or a grown woman without her consent.......If men want fewer abortions, then they ought to learn to not fuck women as much as they do! “

HAHA High ten, my friend!  Way up high!  He shoots, he scores.  Poor Nelson owned!!  :D

By nelson, November 7 at 8:23 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

My goodness Nelson. You talk of reason and yet you have none. Your god drowned babies OUTSIDE of the womb. He killed sleeping sons in their beds--or rather appointed his holy angels to do his evil bidding.  In Exodus he decrees a law where if a pregnant woman is killed in a fight between two men, they must be put to death, but if only her baby dies (in vitro) then he is only to be fined by her husband and the courts.  The trouble with you blind folks, is that YOU cannot reason your way into saying “yea, that is bad. And if my deity is evil like that, and here I am fighting to save babies from abortion, shouldn’t I hold my deity to a higher standard of morale than myself?” But you can’t think for yourself.  Indeed, salvation is not for some.  So go on...live in fear of your wrathful, imaginary god who murders at random and without cause. No salvation from your irrational fears.  And that’s just how the scribes of the day wanted it.  Feed your head!!

“Thou Shalt Not Kill.”
But this begs the question of “kill what?” Does this commandment mean we cannot kill anything, even a fly? No. It means we should not kill another human being. Of course, the you believe a pre-born fetus is the same as a full-term human being. God, however, does not. In Exodus 21:22-25 we read that if a man accidentally kills a pregnant woman, that man should be condemned for committing murder. However, if he only kills the fetus - that is, if she miscarries - he is not condemned for murder. Clearly, then, God does not consider the pre-born fetus as being the same as a human being, in which case the Commandment of “Thou Shalt Not Kill (a human)” does not apply.

For chris’sake Nelson, read your Bible before you come her spewing crazy dogma that you were taught. I feel like a broken record.

Here is part III of the series and its a good one with the truth in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8EGNEofXMM

There is Salvation, you cannot declare that there isn’t because you simply have to do on your own wishes or desires to accept or reject Salvation.  To declare that there isn’t salvation, and being an atheist you can’t know one way or the other.  If you don’t believe in God then it stands to reason you don’t believe in Salvation. To declare that there is no salvation is a step out of your belief.  Now you are forcing your views on Christians that do believe in Salvation and from their system of belief, knows that there is salvation.  No you are wrong here.

The problem as I see it, and my opinion is worth just as much as yours is Nelson, there is no such thing as salvation.  Man must mend his own ways because he must intuit what is moral and what is based on social agreement.  It is not because it is thought that some supernatural being frightens them to death with a firey afterlife.  That is absolute nonsense invented by humans to scare the living shit out of each other.  Original sin was invented to control the public.  Original sin is an invention as much as is the Garden of Eden.  It is utter melodramatic crap.  I think you non-atheists need to open your minds and not your self-serving simpering, mawkish and maudlin emotionalism to the realities of human existence. 

As far as abortions go, it is not only many atheists, but many believers in god accept abortion as not only legal but appropriate in cases where some fucking father has incestuously impregated his own daughter, or a brother, or an uncle, or some idiot other non-related penis-brained male has impregnated a female child or a grown woman without her consent.  You are the one that needs help if you don’t understand that.  You ought to be raped and made pregnant to see how it would be.  Forcing women to carry to term pregnancies was a way of increasing the number of males in male dominated tribes in the ancient world and sentimentalities last longer than need.  There are too many people in the world so nature has given conscious humankind the smarts to know how to control that and not just leave it up to nature alone.  It is utter bullshit to make women carry a pregnancy to birth when it was not wanted.  I agree with the law that says that a pregnancy may not be ended if the fetus can live outside a mother’s womb if and only if it was a wanted pregnancy.  It is then and only then that I consider that fetus a human being.  How do we know when that is?  It takes an educated guess by a doctor of babies.  They have the experience and knowledge.  If they decide it is not a viable being, then an abortion is legal and warranted in my mind.  Natural abortions take place hundreds of times a day with miscarriages.  So abortion is not an unknown event in the context of all of nature.  Women own their own bodies.  If men want fewer abortions, then they ought to learn to not fuck women as much as they do!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3TRHsPMdWI

very accurate as is the book “Pawns in the Game” by William Carr, written in 1955 first.  This is just a representation of many researchers not related to Carr.  “Proofs of a Conspiracy” by John Robison, 1798 wanted those in that era, especially George Washington.  Thomas Jefferson with Adam Weishaupt in 1700’s fell into the trap like Woodrow Wilson did with Colonel House.

“Your irrationally tenacious argument about Einstein is absurd.  He came to the conclusion there was no God from seeing no merit to believing in the God of the Jewish faith or any god for that matter.”

******Not according to his quotes in his final days.  Again, you and Annie are trying to force the Athestic views as well, but using no evidence, just patented retort from Atheist Retort 101.  This is evident in that the Rabbit cud, bats wings etc....lol...is used by others as well.  Pleaseeeee.

Sheno, you are very educated and could very well be a college professor, Annie is also very educated, no question, so we will have to come to an agree to disagree and will see when the world order comes to bear, martial law comes to the US following the next incident, and soon.

Annie, Each one can be answered.  We can go round and round with this for hours, days and weeks.  Once you search for truth from the heart your eyes open to what is literal and what is symbolic as the symbols are clearly explained in the Bible but one must truely seek that truth. 

As its also written…

But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin.
—Mark 3:29, NIV

They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie. (2 Th 2:10b-11 NIV)

Why?  Paul gives the answer to this question in verse 10 by stating that they did not love the truth and refused to receive it. Therefore, God sent them what they wanted and loved, THE LIE

tgambill says: That point starting point is called a singularity, where no application of the laws of physics can describe before it.
And nothing can be said in truth of it either.  There is nothing to support any theory prior to the event or after the singularity.  While I am a fan of Einstein, there is no infallible evidence for his theories either.  One has to simply take what seems more true than other theories.  How much objective data has been collected without overlaying personal beliefs.  Einstein has never said he had an “encounter with God.”

No, I do not believe in any kind of god, personal or otherwise.  I saw the utter folly in religious belief early in my teenage and have never found anyone to have any good argument to believe differently.  Too many absurdities and contradictions to be convincing.  Sin is a subjective judgment and cannot be assigned to anyone without a consensus of moral code by the society in which one lives.

The important thing is not to stop questioning. I agree!  You should take your own advice.  There is no advice to not be in awe when thinking about the vastness and variety of the universe.  I am saying there is no final answer and religion is just one of those explanations that do not have to be believed to have a worthwhile life.  I cannot say nor do I believe anybody can say what a god cares or does not care about.  Morality is an invention of societies to keep complete anarchy from ruling the throngs which is counterproductive to the continuation of the society.  Wanting to know a god’s thoughts seems like heresy to me. Within the context of the religion, it is the attempt to be like god and within the Judeo/Christian religion, that is a fatal breech of the commandments. 

The problem for you tgambill is that it is true those who do not accept your interpretation of life imagine a different way.  That is the way it works. It doesn’t mean anything negative to “spin” or give what looks like a lie.  It isn’t lies, it is a different view.  It is counter to your view.  By the same measure we can say you spin and lie in an attempt to force your views on us.  The only enemy I see is the one that eats our brains.  Dogma, indoctrination of theories that cannot be proven.  Annie is right.  The onus, or responsibility, is on those who make the proposition there is a god and everything else that follows from that notion, in the three Abrahamic versions, all the biblical stories and epistles associated with the religion. 

Your irrationally tenacious argument about Einstein is absurd.  He came to the conclusion there was no God from seeing no merit to believing in the God of the Jewish faith or any god for that matter. 

The book of Revelation is coming true right before you eyes; NOW.  The one world government is the government being prepared for Lucifer’s reign when its his time.  The RFID is the mark of the beast. Your statement is equivalent to that kid in the movie “I see dead people.” Hallucinate all you want.  You will until the day you die anyway.  And if you don’t see that truth, don’t be surprised, because it ain’t gonna happen.

Then can you please explain the following faux pas on god’s part in the scientific world?
LEVITICUS -we’ll start here if you like.

The bible says that hares and coneys are unclean because they “chew the cud” but do not part the hoof. But hares and coneys are not ruminants and they do not “chew the cud.” 11:5-6

Bats are birds to the biblical God. 11:13, 19

Four-legged fowls are abominations. 11:20

Be sure to watch out for those “other flying creeping things which have four feet.” (I wish God wouldn’t get so technical!) I guess he must mean four-legged insects. You’d think that since God made the insects, and so many of them (at least several million species), that he would know how many legs they have! 11:23

NUMBERS 11:31 hahaha

God sends quails to feed his people until they were “two cubits [about a meter] high upon the face of the earth.” Taking the “face of the earth” to be a circle with a radius of say 30 kilometers (an approximate day’s journey), this would amount to 3 trillion (3x1012) liters of quails. At 2 quails per liter, this would provide a couple million quails for each of several million people. 11:31

AndTom,
I DO know damn well how to read.  Let us take a peek.

REVELATION:
“And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth....” To John, the stars are just little lights a few miles away that can easily fall to the earth. 6:13

John “saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth.” Well, I guess that settles it: the earth is flat and square-shaped, or at least quadrilateral in shape. 7:1

An angel threw the censer down to earth, causing thunder, lightning, and earthquakes. 8:5

“And there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters.” In the bible, stars are just little lights that can fall to the ground from the sky. 8:10

Now for that silly dragon. hahaha
Rev 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

In Rev 13:1 the crowns are upon the horns, the DRAGON has the crowns upon the heads. Rev 13:4 shows that the beast and the dragon are distinct entities.

hahah Let’s see you argue you way around the scientific errors, and the beasts and dragons that are “lucifer and satan”.  If you cannot see that that is myth, you are a crazy person who may as well believe that Mohammed flew into heaven on a horse, the way the Qu’raan says he did.

HAHAHAHA I gotta go........:D

Tackwood, Louis E. and the Citizens Research and Investigation Committee. The Glass House Tapes. New York: Avon Books, 1973. 284 pages.

In 1971, some New Left activists in Los Angeles were approached by Louis Tackwood, who wanted to confess about the work he had been doing for the Criminal Conspiracy Section of the LAPD. “Those are the mad dogs who set up Angela, the Panthers—all the militants. They’ve got a room on the eighth floor of the Glass House with files and pictures of all radicals—brothers, brown militants and white boys, too. It’s a top secret place where they keep information on everyone. You even need a special pass to get in. They got files on people all over the country. CCS is a super-police agency.”
This semi-thriller chronicles the efforts by the ad-hoc citizens committee to debrief Tackwood into a tape recorder over the next two years, confirm his story, and publicize it. They did an excellent job; this remains a classic glimpse into the pre-Watergate police-state atmosphere that was all too real for the New Left the morning after the sixties. From Red Squads to state agencies, and from the FBI’s COINTELPRO to domestic surveillance by the CIA and military, it was as close to fascism as we’ve come since the McCarthy days. In 1978 I was working with another Citizens Commission on Police Repression on the issue of LAPD’s intelligence division. I consider this book to be credible, even if Tackwood’s prose is slightly overstated.—D.Brandt
ISBN unavailable

21 November 1933 – A letter written by FDR to Colonel House, “The depression was the calculated ‘shearing’ of the public by the World Money powers, triggered by the planned sudden shortage of supply of call money in the New York money market....The One World Government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank.” Curtis Dall, FDR’s son-in-law as quoted in his book, My Exploited Father-in-Law.
Same letter by FDR 1933 - A letter written by FDR to Colonel House; “The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson.”

1933 – Quoted in his second Cabinet meeting that he (FDR), was not interested in staying out of the war, but rather wanted to devise a way for American to get into another war, “Mr. Farley wrote that at the second cabinet meeting in 1933, “The new President again turned to the possibility of war with Japan.” [Farley, James, The Roosevelt Years, NY, McGraw-Hill Books, 1948, P 39. Cabinet Member James Farley.]

I quote FDR in March 1939:

March 4, 1939 - Quote from a report of the secret committee by President Roosevelt,;

“I am making no concessions to business, or for relief. I have a military machine sufficient to stop any organized revolt. I am putting MY PEOPLE ahead of all instruments. I’ll have had a full understanding with Chamberlain, and we will destroy this unemployed condition with a WAR, and a WAR only. To Hell with the American people, as far as a Democracy is concerned. It does not exist. It never did, and we will never let it happen that way. I am going to crush business, infest America with all the aliens possible, and in the last analysis, declare Martial Law, and confiscate everything I need for a true and forceful Dictatorship. My New Deal is a failure, and I know it, but no one else will tell me that I must discontinue my present activities, and program.” From the Secret Audience with the Military Appropriation Committee; The Ways and Means Committee; The Special War Finance Committee; and this copy was presented to me by mail through Senator Lundeen.” “The Red Fog Over America” by William Guy Carr, 1955.

In 1841 Clinton Roosevelt published in America “The Science of Government Founded on Natural Laws”, This was nothing more than a plagiarized version of the teachings of Professor Adam Weishaupt of Frankfort University, Germany, the renegade Jesuit priest who arranged for the agenteur of the Illuminati to infiltrate into French Freemasonary in 1776 so “The Secret Power” which directed the World Revolutionary Movement, and the Conspiracy of Satan, at that time could use Freemasonsary to further their secret plans and ambitious and at the same time cloak their diabolitical purpose.

The fact that FDR’s New Deal, his NRA, and other political policies and economic devices fitted perfectly into the “Long Range Plans”, of the Illuminati proved the continuity of the conspiracy from 1841 to 1945. It has been explained that Roosevelt made known his secret plans to establish a dictatorship in American in March 1939 when he gave a secret audience to some of his governments special committee. It has also been mentioned that Roosevelt was kept a virtual prisoner from after Yalta until his death presumably to prevent him telling the truth in the event his conscience troubled him when he realized that he was about to meet his maker.

The book of Revelation is coming true right before you eyes; NOW.  The one world government is the government being prepared for Lucifer’s reign when its his time.  The RFID is the mark of the beast. 

European Union and the EURO the frist step and test case for the rest to follow.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

South American Union development on going.......all the way back then. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Union_of_South_American_N ations

NaturalNews) Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva recently revealed that the South American countries are planning for a common currency as part of the integration of the individual countries into the Union of South American Nations. This integration is patterned after the formation of the European Union, and parallels the plan for the North American Union.

http://www.naturalnews.com/023480.html

African Union

http://www.africa-union.org/

North American Union

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_wCdULj6fOQ

RFID mark of the Beast!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo&feature =related

One World Government!!!!!!!! the government of Lucifer, which is the reality of this world.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qBK_NhT-LM

“We can start with the fact that there are no dragons.”

****you see, once again you lose credibility when you misuse or don’t know how to read the Bible.  The Dragon is the symbolic name of Satan.  That was easy. 

“the onus is on YOU to prove god--or at least give evidence for yo