REF: GARTH

Your earlier observation is something I have been thinking about:

“For the most important issue of the day, the economy, Obama passed the baton to Geithner and Summers, two students of the Rubin-Greenspan mold who want to continue to try to save a moribund economic enclave of the rich, powerful and, heretofore, unknown.”

I would really like more people to understand how the pillars of our society serving in the U.S. Congress are gearing up to attack us again. It’s the details of the developing Healthcare Package that Max Baucus and key Rep. senators that must be watched very carefully. At one time I would have strongly opposed Single-Payer. Not anymore, no they would carefully cherry-pick the citizens if they could. In fact, with a byzintinian package of laws and codes, that is exactly what the Baucus crowd are aiming at.

Hell, 20 years ago about the deductions from my check, 10 years ago it was alarming. They took and took and now the healthcare is so much worse. The crooks in congress serve this putrid healthcare industry, especially Max Baucus. I have had Canadian visitors every summer for many years. One old couple in their 80s are pretty damn healthy and have no major quarrel with their system. Rich Canucks can fly to Paris or anywhere else to get special care. Most Canucks do okay.

Two winning arguments for Single-Payer healthcare in USA is Simplicity and increasing competition amongst global drug companies and all the rest. Sen. Max Baucus and his buds across the aisle stand in the way of competition. They want to make it as complicated as possible. So fragmented and complex that you cannot tell what the hell to do.

Complexity for the sake of complexity and, thus, control and profits.

Thanks to Hawkeye’s comment and a rereading of my post, I must correct the last statement.  I meant ‘poke’ not polk. 
But I can’t let this chance to jab at the Obama administration go by.  The last sentence refers to the election of George W. Obama, “Let’s face it, we did not elect a Leader, we bought a pig in a ‘poke’”.
I guess, in a sense, with George, we knew what we were getting.

Thank you Hawkeye.

Thank you, Hawkeye.  I’ve enjoyed your posts, too.  It was the last one that spurred me on to enter this rant.

Thanks again.

REF: GARTH

Well said, Garth. Congratulations.

The real problem with this economic recovery plan, or any national economic recovery plan for that matter, is the lack of leadership. (Remember Ford’s WIN buttons, Whip Inflation Now?).  In this particular incidence, we have Obama, hailed as the first black President of the U.S. with the concommitant expectations that that brings, but in reality, we have a skinny kid who is full of himself in a suit too big for him to fill.  The whole issue to reiterate is one of leadership.
For the most important issue of the day, the economy, Obama passed the baton to Geithner and Summers, two students of the Rubin-Greenspan mold who want to continue to try to save a moribund economic enclave of the rich, powerful and, heretofore, unknown.  Whatever they said was good enough for him.
And more recently, he is allowing the Cyber Czar (the U.S.military) to determine the parameters of U.S. security and the Internet.  He avers that he is for Net neutratlity,  But can that can be considered anything more than what the likes of Ted Stevens said on the Senate floor (He’s the aquitted criminal and ex-Senator from the Alaska.) namely, that the Internet was a bunch of pipes?
I’m afraid, the good voters of the U.S. have elected another cheerleader.
True Leadership (caps intended), however, comes from knowledge from first hand experience of living the issues and deciding which side of the issue you agree with, not from posing for cameras from the Harvard Review, not from listening to advisers to whom you have acquiesced. 
Let’s face it, we did not elect a Leader, we bought a pig in a polk.

Damn, I seem to agree with everybody on this thread!

1. AOE, axis of evil. Yep.
2. Why would they allow any reform. Yep.
3. Vancemark is the odd one, it is voters fault.

Wonder how long it will be until everybody around the globe will have their own H-bombs and missiles? That should bring it all to a conclusion, quickly enough.

The surviving primates can start it all over again. Hell, this really is “The Planet of the Apes!”

Unless we destroy ourselves, our overbreeding and destructive ways will destroy the whole planet. They just broadcast distractions and ignore the fundamental issue—greedy, aggressive apes.

samosamo—I would agree completely.

That is why it is NOT “amazing that an Af Am is president”..anyone can be, if they just cower to the bottom line…

REF: Dwight

I was just thinking about the stages in the development of our current “meltdown” when I suddenly thought of the Hiroshima strike.

The “Great Crash” of 1929 was unfathonable to the general population, although Kenneth Galbriath wrote a Pulizer Prize winner detailing how J.P. Morgan and others helped create the stock market bubble, escaped with the plunder before it crashed. J.P. Morgan, therefore, was able to buy U.S. Steel stock for chump change and was sitting pretty for WW2.

But nobody connected the dots and followed the money for many years. Previously, the robber barrons had their take on how to make money. Despite all the facts, these people rarely get indicted and punished. John D. Rockefellow and Commodore Vanderbilt died richer than Midas. Only a few come to mind that had a change of heart, namely, Andrew Carnigie. Today, Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are trying to think of what they should do. Toward the end, these immensely lucky fellows must all realize something is missing. Gates decides he should do good deeds and he gets a notion to save starving children around the world and hires a staff to see to it.

But there are some who are so hungry and greedy they never have any kind of awakening. It must be those like Joseph Stalin and these Wall St. investment bankers and their international associates crave more and more because it affords them more and more power. I wonder about the motives of those like Summers, Greenberg, Soros, and so many others. Even one like Bernie Madoff. It is about time to put these characters under the microscope and try and understand their motives. It goes way back, but even when those who are able, connects the dots a follows the money, superficial explinations of their motives need to be understood.

But, returning to the Hiroshima image, we do not need to comprehend quantum mechanics, nuclear chemistry and engineering to know what that mushroom cloud over Hiroshima means. Same for this “economic meltdown” and the years of pain, anguish and even premature death it will bring. And, yet, look at the steely-eyed expression on Summer’s face and ask yourself, why he is working closely with President Obama, Rahm Emanuel, Tim Geithner and the Goldman Sachs “recovery” team. Why are these villians still ruling over us? Is the U.S. Congress all morons or are they all complicent and waiting for new orders?

REF: U.S. HEALTH CARE SUX

This Vancemack poster sounds pretty bad. Makes my stomach roll over. Phooey!

On the other hand, I consider that KDelphi had the best take on this issue:

“yler—thanks. Some of us know this to be true. There are huge economic interests here in the States that convince and scare people into believing that health care in not a human right, vut is just fine being a hugely profitable buasiness, while patients die much too soon. It is perhaps USA greed at its most ugly. Some are optimistic, but, the prospects dont look good, to me.”

The pro-drug and pro-health insurance companies are spending big time to keep their choke-hold on the puppet politicians and ordinary people. If they succeed, millions will die.

Unless the U.S. Congress changes, the health care industry will win. Unless millions of people do all that they can possibly do to get the attention of the U.S. Congress and the White House, we lose.

Sick and tired of the mortgage banksters and the health care tycoons complain about the hardships of attending medical school. That hound won’t hunt.

By KDelphi, May 30 at 7:09 pm
““Why would Obama change anything?”“
************************************

At the risk of me thinking you’re naive(I don’t), obama isn’t going to change a damn thing because he agreed not to in exchange for the presidency which is verified by his departure from most everything he promised in his campaign, and just like woodrow wilson agreed to sign the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 into law in exchange for his presidency and ronnie ‘alhzeimer’ reagan agreed to read the script and play the part of scramble brains on stage in the white house.

And all these crooks know that the people aren’t going to unravel the rigged system that exists today and put our democracy back together again, in fact these criminals are ‘banking’ on the people doing nothing but complaining.

What is disturbing is that law enforcement and judiciary don’t seem to have a single person that will make an effort to stop any of these crooks in their criminal endeavours nor does any kind of investigative reporter seem to want to ‘look into this thing’ and expose it for what it is, grand larceny on the grandest of scales without supervision.

What I cannot understand is why anyone would think that the monsters on Wall St would WANT to “reform”—they got everything. They never paid anyone money back, they never went to jail, they kept their manions…why change anything?

Why would Obama change anything?

I just started reading, “Surviving the Cataclysm,” by Webster Tarpley, and the story it tells leaves little doubt that the defenses thrown up to excuse Wall Street’s behavior (i.e., The banksters didn’t know what was going on, no one could see it coming, or they were stupid.) are groundless.  They knew exactly what they were doing.  And I’d say that with Obama and this congress, it’s going along as planned.

After reading William Black’s ‘The Best Way To Rob A Bank Is To Own One’, I can only say that the S&L scandal of the 80s is now morphed into the financial terrorists attack of the here and now with the ‘beyond reproach’ CEOs and upper managements, appraisers, lobbyists and the government all colluding to use control fraud to ‘persuade’ those auditors, investigators and regulators that USED to keep a check on these now criminal corporate ‘leaders’ and their ilk but now are ‘bought and paid for’ to do the opposite of what they were meant to do.

This has infected just about the whole of the system just to give that illusion of power and of a ‘legal way’ of ‘doing business for our country to be robbed blind.

Obama spoke to an audience at a fundraiser in Beverly Hills, CA yesterday and said that the economy is on the rebound and that we’ve come back from the brink.
He’s whistling past the graveyard.
He got $ 3 million in contributions to the DNC from those “poor” people in Beverly Hills, so I guess one could say that he picks his spots well.
Thom Hartmann on a radio broadcast covers his adoration for Obama.  He declares, “It’s the issues, stupid.”  Then he berates a black caller for saying that Obama is still the first black President, to which Hartmann decries, “And Clarence Thomas was the first black Supreme Court Justice.”  No, stupid, Thurgood Marshall was.
As far as the issues go, they seem to linger: destroying US labor, single payer vs. health insurance industry ripoff, credit card swindle, Wall Street thievery, wars and occupations all over the world, continuing to torture while still saying we don’t, habeas corpus, wealth for few and povery for the many.
We elect candidates, supposedly, who claim to have solutions to these mounting problems (issues), but the ones we elect do nothing, or worse; they keep doing what was done before.  It’s like what Einstein said about insanity.  You the same thing over and over again expecting different results.
Let’s face it, after just a few years of first getting aquainted with Obama, then listening to his campaign sales pitch, and finally electing him and watching him at work, it has become painfully obvious that Obama’s a bum.
Now, Obama will wrap himself in the security blanket of the national media and we’ll get from them puff pieces, distractions, and outright lies.
Gen’l James Jones spoke yesterday about national security including narco traffic, the war in Iraq, etc.
Reminded me of an old cartoon, “There Oughtta be a Law.”  This jamoke and the Johnson-Nixon-Carter-Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama administration have changed it to “There Oughtta Be a War.”

The meltdown continues with more people unable to meet their basic needs.  How these people are supposed to spark the economy through consumer spending, when they are broke, is beyond my understanding. 

Twelve trillion dollars has been thrown at the wealthy.  Only one trillion has been aimed at working people.

Washington is uncontrollably corrupt and therefore will make life worse for working people, not better. 

When the bailout bubble pops we go down again, only this time permanently.

monday night

ref: dwight, stay in the loop. of course, i detect no cognative impairment. thanks for the posts and will be digested a bit later.

if you can hired to design big pressure values and win on five times out of six, you are a winner. an old friend of mine and myself speculated some people have more brains than they need. bottom line is we give into our cravings and, inevitably, screw up. yep, you got all the cognative ability you need to do the right thing.

Ref: Dwight

Enjoyed how business was straight forward and honest in those days. Much easier to understand. Seems entirely fair to me but both of us know there was no satellite worldwide communications and technical systems that is hard to keep up with. Again, charging in like the heroic poem that has inspired many people, “The Charge of Light Brigade,” by Runyard Kipling is uplifting but did not win the war.

Again, this is cold blooded chess. If you are inspired to win the war, recruitment is critical and security is step one. You have built a staging area, I suggest securing the perimeter. I assure you that you can rely on having getting “their” attention.

Obviously, you care and have invested in your site, that is great. Actually, your story about being innocently drawn into armed robbery would have irritated me more that a little. For instance, way back when I had a friend who suddenly tried to get me to switch positions when his car was stop for a traffic check. Nothing was wrong except his license was revoked for speeding. He was not an old friend, but a new acquaintance. No way, Jose.

Reminds me of the old spoof cartoon with The Lone Ranger and Tonto surround by a war party with the caption: What do you mean by “we,” white man?

Security, verification and details, details and more details are required. By 16 I was wild and randy enough to jump on the rankest bucking stock you could round up, but that was then and this i now. I didn’t just fall off the turnip truck. Like I said, you might be working real hard at a desk somewhere in Virginia setting out a trotline.

Maybe that is what I am doing? I would never judge a book by its cover, why would you?

foggyjones, May 11 at 10:54 pm

Out in the Wild West some were called hired guns they did the shooting up while the fat cats laid back.  Now on the East Coast when some from Sicily came along they had their ways too but not a far from the old Wild Western days.  For the fat cats like to lay back and be the big bosses and call all the shots to avoid them any embarrassments.  Now a time way back from the past just jumped up and took control. 

True story for the Oil Fields in Oklahoma:  My Dad got back from WWII could not find work but finally did, went to work for Lee Jones.  His job was ruining a work over rig.  Mr. Jones as all called him was a kind and caring man and did all he could do for his workers, customers all concerned. One day Mr. Jones asks Dad to go on a ride to Wichita Falls TX—told Dad he might have to come home alone.  So off they went and soon arrived in front of the biggest bank there. While walking up to the front door he told Dad, “Dwight don’t say nothing just stare mean like I will do the talking”,

They finally got to see the big boss Mr. Jones set down Dad was standing—-the feller ask, ”Mr. Jones what are you here for?”  Mr. Jones replied, “Come to get my money you have had too much time and my men need paid and that what we come for our pay.”  The feller replied “You mean you didn’t get my check in the mail?”  Mr. Jones said, “I am not talking about the mail”  The feller said again “I told her to send it “ Mr. Jones replied, “I don’t know no her”

Then the feller said “Mr. Jones you are out of line” Mr. Jones sat back reached in his jacket and pulled out a 38 laid it on the desk and said, “No feller you are out of time I want my money”

Then a miracle just occurred that feller got on the phone and had that her bring in the cash to settle the account.

Well driving back Mr. Jones told Dad. “Dwight you did a sure enough good job today couldn’t done with out you watching my back”.

Then all was well for a long time then finally one day that feller in Wichita Falls needed some more work done. Mr. Jones said sure enough we will get your well back on line just have that her bring the cash when we rig down.

So sometimes it just takes getting the attention of some.

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MONDAY     MONDAY 934 PM/CST DFW/USA

While keeping up the chatter being perused by the ruling elite, there are a few steps that should be taken, asap.

1. continue to learn the history of advertising, literature and propanda. whatever they call it, communications, public affair or public relations, news or smoke signals, whatever, it is not a benign source of important public information. It bares watched a distance with binoculars with filered lens.

2. how to communicate with security? concentrate on isolating each partial packet, which can come by more than one vehicle and routinely but randomly bounced through multiple nodes. consider what “they” do, which can easily be improved. from encryption to groups of packets via reliable friends, from business jets to eighteen wheelers. always assume every word is scrutinized. unfortunately, this absurd situation has been well funded. It is 99.9% wasted tune and money but like they said in the big one, loose lips sink ships.

These are interesting times, a time to defeat this cancer in the land. 

(foggyjones is a friend of tomjoadjr.)

foggyjones and all

We cannot wait like the Germans did when Hitler took away all their rights. Most of the many Americans today run on fear——I think that has been caused by tooooo much depression but despite the whys, fear fills many of folks lives filling them with hopeless dreams that all is going to be OK.  And it is not.

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/616.html

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/615.html

I have a retired Marine that is coming on board to watch our back when in DC.  And there are many more out there we cannot think we are all alone.  And what is better to fight them with the Rule of Law in our Constitution NOW or later on hiding in the shadows in attics, underneath bridges like the movies depict?

Never forget this too; the world is full of good honest judges.  That would in a heartbeat try this bunch all they need is the power of a federal court here in America to do so, and how hard would that be to do?

So my thought are on the higher powers held in all of us to rise up and shout out OBJECTION.

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By foggyjones, May 11 at 8:47 pm

Good Points well made will consider. We have the small cell ideas down then feeding up info to districts then on into regional then on to DC.  Now the stakes are always high but consider the support we would get from our troops and cops alike.  My concern is that if this agenda were not stopped we would have conceded the rule of law to object. And objection must be done now some way some how with the teeth of the law embedded in it.  Forget about Congress the Senate and some of the rest but some one or a group that can get it down pat must do it.  Object.  Stand up shout out OBJECTION.

All the world citizens are looking in to see how we fare.

MONDAY   700 PM/CST   DFW/USA

REF: DWIGHT

I respectfully suggest to you that nobody will ever participate in anything, at this point, simply provide an ez-access to another “enemies” list. Think back to how extremely “descrete” the very brave men and women only signed lists when they had claimed victory.

Unless you completely how to protect your out-gunned loyalists, you will only expose them to all sorts of measures from the ruling elete, anything from being laid off, not hire to hanging in the public square.

I suggest you understand, for instance, how independent cells can protect the greater organization.

What’s in a name? You are, surely, seeking the most effective, pragmatic and efficient organization to get the result needed. For instance, consider dozens of examples that proves what I suggest is well proven.

1. Despite the wealth, fire power, etc,, In the end, the USSR left Afghanistan, as have others before them.
1. Despite so many years the French and finaly, the US attempted to take Vietnam. Ho Chi Mingh’s relentless war of attrition prevailed. Save as the situation in Afghanistan. Huge, powerful armies come with an unsustainable monthly payment. Unless is handled like “Desert Storm,” it is too damn expensive. The price in gold lives and precious reputation is always at stake.

When the ruling elite are proven to have deceived and cheated ordinary citizens, they have a huge problem once the sheeple get it. There are outstanding examples, of that. Like in France, when the ruling elite manipulated the wealth and laws until you heard the famous quote, “Let them eat cake.” I think that was Josephine and a couple centuries later, you have Nancy Pelosi and Jane Harman. There is a mountain of greivences these aristocrats have stacked up. So, if the vast majority of Americans could remove such people with their TV remote, like turning off CNN, you know they would. So, it is not about cowardice, it is about pointing out the outrages and suggesting what the outraged people considered “doable” at this particular moment.

I repeat, at this moment, they must be assured reasonable security to protect their “privacy” to help something that is clearly rational and keeps thinks at least as private those who dared board wooden ships and toss a very valuable tea cargo in the harbor. Since anybody you dare have an exchange with is certainly colleted by web aggregators like google and yahoo, only a few dared to speak up against king george. Not in the public square. Not in anything that could be construed as hate crime or even insurrection. Lots of famous people killed for doing that. They call them martyrs, from Jesus to MLK. Ghandi, etc.

Understand the finer points of independent, unconnected small cells, devoted to a common cause, and weigh that against causes that were soon crushed. Remember that the only thing that stopped King George from blasting away every potential threat is because of lost revenue, taxes. The brits of the time had to support their far flung navy and troops in all those colonies where they were raking in the gold, silk, spices, and so much more.

Freedom lovers in the American colonies were in the same position as outraged people today. Some details have change, important details that should be obvious to you.

Do you know that I am legit? How could I possibly trust you with my charge card number? Of course not!

Inspect and verify, periodically. Face it, only those who successfully move underground and understand cell theory can resist for very long.

If you do not understand the fine details of how Joseph Stalin so completely understood all this, he and a few others were more powerful than the cell, but not forever. Hell, the Zsars had their secret police who infiltrated any resistance to the tyranny, but not forever.

NOTES FROM UNDERGROUND

By foggyjones, May 11 at 7:25 pm

Our goal is to have time on CSPAN dedicated to the real TRUTH in NEWS broadcast by folks like Amy Goodman and many others—-Bob Scheer would be good too, not me I am too much of a red neck hillbilly.  We think we can play that card once there. Not only that but our vision is to have colleges and Universities broadcast the real News from their campuses then on into CSPAN AGAIN TO BE BROADCAST each day with the real facts not views a WIN=WIN for all alike.

Journalism today is a bucket full of hoaxes in jokes done by the ones who look the best.  That is one reason the big boys think they can take over now because they believe they have lulled America to sleep. But NOT YOU or me.

All the big banks are crying wolf again they want us to bail them out on unsecured credit card debit. Now if Obama lets that slide that is a criminal act.

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MONDAY   621 PM/CST   DFW/USA

TWO CRUCIAL POINTS:

A.  BREAKING UP THE MAINSTREAM MEDIA OLIGARCHY - TOO MUCH POWER AND INFLUENCE.

B.  BUSTING UP AND DE CENTRALIZING BANKS. NEVER AGAIN LET ANY CORPORATION EXIST IN THE USA THAT IS “TOO BIG TO FAIL.” NEVER AGAIN!

By foggyjones, May 10 at 4:59 pm

Good ideas done—- done that. All is needed is one who is not afraid of their shadow contact me and I will forward the 7000 page plan.

Now forget about being elected—- that is a hoax of jokes. As you said it is far too late in the game. The bad boys has seen all the lacks of us putting up with the Bush Bunch of Thugs so they know it is the right time to strike, the final blow.  Yet my take is that some are already on the run. Sociopaths don’t like being locked up.

The only way to take back our America is the Rule of Law imposed by us in Washington DC.  And that can only be effective if 3 to 5 million of us strong stand up as one and demand it done.

We have now a large part of that group so what is wrong with those on TRUTHDIG? GO FIGURE?

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Here’s a link to the video of William Black with Bill MOyers (hope it works)

http://informationclearinghouse.info/article22352.htm

It was excellent, I cant seem to find anything on Free Speech TV….

DWIGHTBAKER,

Thanks.  That’s a great link. 
Reminded of something Robert Johnson, the Sentate economic advisor said on another edition of the Laura Fflanders show.  He said that if Americans don’t start getting pissed (his word) and hit the streets in protest, then it’s only going to get worse.  Sen. Durbin said as much on the Bill Moyers show Friday.  Eight million going on 12 million foreclosures.

I still recommend the William Black interview.

Takes far less time to listen to this

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/616.html

Shalom

DB

If you can find Laura Flanders’s interview of William Black on FreeSpeechTVit is worth the time to watch it.  Black sums up the history of the whole mess starting with the S&L scandal.
It’s an important interview.

BUT THE BIGGER QUESTION IS THIS——DOES ANYBODY CARE ENOUGH HERE ON TRUTHDIG TO GIVE A HOOT?  THEN GET TO DC AND GIVE A BUNCH OF THEM THE BOOT?

The big problem in America today is that most are paranoid.  Why not?  Seems everyday the powerbrokers drop a new crisis.

But paranoid or not we better get our act together now before we rot.

The only hope that we have right now is the words in the Constitution that allows us as a people to take over when all is wrong with out taking it to the streets.

So those of us that comment on TRUTHDIG can keeping digging for more proof more reason idle chit chat or we can finally come together as a communed people and get down to business of taking back our Solvency and Sovereignty as a people who can rule themselves.

And I must get some proof from some of you that you can hear the drumbeat of the tyrants outside our doors if not I will quit wasting my time around here.

Not one person commenting here or looking in has asked to be sent the business plan of We The Peoples Advocates WHY?  Who knows but I will tell you for the last time there are no other way than beat the Bilderbergs at their own game. 

HELP US HELP YOU FREE OUR NATION FROM TYRANNY

We The Peoples Advocates WTPA are providing the only HOPE in saving our great nation.  So JOIN IN and ENLIST to serve with your VOICES being heard and your VOTES being counted and moved along to our lobby group in Washington DC to power push the peoples needs, wants and wishes in our cities, states and Federal Governments for all Americans to have the rights to life in all ways in equity adjudicated by the Bar of Justice.
Info contact Dwight Baker .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

WHO ARE THE GREATEST?

AT A TIME LIKE THIS THAT CAN GET IT IN GEAR TO CURE ALL THAT AILS
IN THIS PONZI SCHEME CALLED A FINANCIAL MELT DOWN?

Amid all the rumblings distortions lying cheating convolutions in every matter can we trust what we hear from whom ever?  Seems not to me.

The free press is a hoax first then a joke next.  They work for the MAIN MAN and they forget truth when reporting the VIEWS not news.  Their jobs are to present the VIEWS with the talking points in hand to get more control of our minds——to forget to be sane and sound minded and be like minded to GW BUSH just a puppet.

So our so-called free press is just a hoax of jokes——I mean all of them.  Our nation is on fire from the inside out and the arsonist is running loose with all our loot. Then instead of getting the real deal news of what is really going on we get an episode of NANCY GRACE oh GOD FORBID and listen to her chant the same old worn out message long dead. Or get to watch COPS IN ACTIONS to bring a scare to all just one more time, or listen to some moron talk about investments when he is a con man too. Or listen to LOU DOBBS read his script that some one else wrote. And the MSNBC despite what they proclaim they are on the take too. Or tune into CSPAN and listen to hogwash coming out of the mouths of sure enough liars that work for us——don’t think so when elected they do their own thing.

So now back to the subject WHO ARE THE GREATEST?  Guys and Gals you are, first you work your work come home cook clean take care of the kids mend tend to homework take a shower try to clean out all the soreness from driving on the congested highways and byways to work then back again. 

Oops you say got to get connected to like-minded folks to get to save our great and abundant American on that great tool of today the Internet.  So here you set working away giving or taking information to get more knowledge——what you can do to benefit your family friends and kin and all others just because you are good and care.

So you my friend——- reading this YOU ARE THE GREATEST.

Dwight Baker Chairman THE VOICES FOR WE THE PEOPLES ADVOCATES—-WTPA for Grass Roots Actions needed for forming our own truth filled lobby in Washington DC to power punch our VOICES and VOTES of the people for our rights to life in acts of equity with Justice.
PO BOX 7065 Eagle Pass, TX 78853
Tel/fax 1-830-773-1077
Contact E-mail .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

WE THE PEOPLE SEEING OUR LAWS BE OFFENDED BY THOSE IN THE FINANCIAL MELT DOWN CAUSES US TO WONDER WHY?

THE ONE THING THAT TIES ALL OF WE THE PEOPLE TOGETHER IS THE

RULE OF LAW

Enforcing the RULE OF LAW on ALL provides all the rights to life in all ways with equity found in JUSTICE

Provided as a Public Awareness message
We The Peoples Advocates WTPA we are providing the only HOPE in saving our great nation.  So JOIN IN and ENLIST to serve with your VOICES being heard and your VOTES being counted and moved along to our lobby group in Washington DC to power push the peoples needs, wants and wishes in our cities, states and Federal Governments.
Info contact Dwight Baker .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

CREATE TEN NEW FEDERAL COURTS TO GET THIS CROWD BEFORE THE BAR OF JUSTICE

THE OUT IN THE OPEN DECEIT IS RANCOROUS

Chrysler, which is subsisting on $4 billion in federal loans, is under a mandate from Mr. Obama to cut its labor costs and debt and complete an alliance with the Italian automaker Fiat if it is to get further government assistance. April 29, 2009

Those that espouse to the tenets of the secret group of BILDERBERG are those in Obama cabinet and the BILDERBERG have published intentions of running the world.  Sound like NAZI Germany not far from wrong.  And while those in that mindset are running rampant———we the people in the US today are treated as dunces standing in the corner with our nose in a hole.  On President OBAMA staff are those that are ripping our nation apart and giving all the cream to their buddies in the BILDERBERG group.

Case in point Chrysler is forced into bankruptcy——- FIAT is going to take over, who looses is the investors to the tune of $6.9 billion chump change when you are a Bilderberger.

NOW THIS GUY Giovanni_Agnelli started FIAT long ago and ponyed up to Nazi Germany and made a fortune while doing——along with many other seemed big GOOD CORPORATE NAMES that run ads on our TV VIEW STATIONS laying claim to be the worlds salvation in all ways.  CAUTION LOOK FOR THE CON.

Short list of BILDERBERGS
·  George W. Ball[6] (1954-1992), former U.S. diplomat
·  John Edwards[7][8]
·  Gerald Ford[9]
·  Bill Clinton[10] (1991), former US President, 1993 - 2001
·  Jon Corzine (1995 - 1997[4], 1999, 2003, 2004), former US Senator, current Governor of New Jersey
·  Richard N. Haass (1991, 2003, 2004[11]), president, Council on Foreign Relations
·  Lee H. Hamilton (1997[4]), former US Congressman
·  Christian Herter[12] (1961, 1963, 1964, 1966), former Secretary of State
·  Richard Holbrooke (2006), former U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations
·  Joseph E. Johnson[13] (1954), former President, Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
·  Henry Kissinger[11] (1957, 1964, 1966, 1971, 1973, 1974, 1977-2008), Secretary of State, 1973 - 1977
·  Sam Nunn (1996, 1997[4]), former US Senator
·  Rick Perry[14] (2007), Current Governor of Texas
·  Kathleen Sebelius[15], Kansas governor and nominee for the the Health and Human Services secretary post
·  Timothy Geithner[16], Treasury Secretary
·  Lawrence Summers[17], Director of the National Economic Council
·  Paul Volcker[18], Chair of the President’s Economic Recovery Advisory Board

Giovanni Agnelli creator of the FIAT car line that led too much more.  Read
http://books.google.com/books?id=dK44ciNfx6MC&pg=RA1-PA35&lpg=RA1-PA35&dq=Giovanni+Agnelli+=+NAZI+GERMANY&source=bl&ots=49ge2sIGl4&sig=MXrqEMfv2_dUz4hiujVBx-BKoxI&hl=en&ei=IcbwSbjbM82JtgfP9_nBDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giovanni_Agnelli

http://www.bilderberg.org/bilder.htm

http://www.tribalmessenger.org/columns/blogs/tivana/who-are-they.htm

So now once again President Obamas star powers the BILDERBERGS has come into action deceiving us once again in the first few days of his administration and how could he not know? 

Americans Beware

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BORN INTO—-SCHOOLED INTO—-TUTORED INTO—-DOING WHAT?

BECOMING A GRAND SLAM THIEF

HOW DARE THEY BRING A REPROACH

Timothy Geithner is a child prodigy that was groomed by father and grandfather to do what he is doing today expanding the Ford Foundation and their cronies’ goals. He spent much of childhood in Africa where his influential parents and grandparents had deep roots into that political culture.

Larry Summers tutored him for years. And the lunch dates certainly proves that his prodigy and pundit status jumped started his political carrier. 

But does that long connectivity with the Ford Foundation and their partners and views on how the world should be run cast a serious doubt and concern who he really works for?  It does for many.

And Geithner heading up our treasury has proved to have consequences that we cannot bare. His stated goals and aspirations for us are out of step with most others.  His personal appearances raises doubts to how he stands on the issues, that again has lead many of us to have concerns about him knowing all the game plans each step of the way.  And that leads us to consider who does he serve, those of us the offended or those that committed the offenses.  Thus the record is clear that he jumps to and serves the wills and mandates of the offenders. 

And should this entire banking crisis be a PONZI scheme as many have said, and if Geithner job is to disguise that so his benefactors can go undiscovered to that end we would be foolish to not raise a red flag every day until he is replaced.  For at the end of the day we have Geithner representing the Ford Foundation and all their associates on one hand and two Larry Summers on the other?

Entrepreneurs are needed to restructure our government not political pundits and puppets doing what they a told behind closed doors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Geithner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_School_Bangkok
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_H._Nitze_School_of_Advanced_International_Studies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_H._Nitze
http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2009/04/unbearable-vagueness-timothy-geithner
http://documents.nytimes.com/geithner-schedule-new-york-fed#p=3

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FINANCIAL MELT DOWN WHAT SCUM DID IT?

WHO LIKES TO SUM THINGS UP?

WHO HAS A RIGHT OF MIND TO THINK RIGHT ANY LONGER?

President Barack Obama did capture the hearts and minds of people around this earth, WHY he showed no aggression and his words were clear and eloquently spoken.  But to me that just proved that people like to sum things up. Put it in a box tie a bow around it and then pretend what is inside is going to fix all up.  Many of us are not inane to the political games and we can readily see that what was put in the box was flawed just like the rest of us.  Now the bigger task at hand is helping out best as we can and at this time all we have is our voice or our written word to state our case to who ever will listen.

WILL ROGERS said some time ago I NEVER MET A MAN I DIDN’T LIKE.  And I am a native born son of the great state of OKLAHOMA as WILL—- and I would like to say today I NEVER MET A MAN THAT I WOULD NOT RUN FROM.

Generations apart and look at us now?  What a bunch of misfit morose morons with grand theft in mind have come along to lie, cheat and steal even unto taking away our solvency and sovereignty as a Nation.

Now unlike many of the big Political guys and gals that like to be seen with everyone all the time, I do not.  For why would I ever want to be seen smiling with a bunch from the failed and faulted GOP, LIKUD party the NEO CONS, BILDERBERGS or the many in another crime business the MAFIA?  So yes I will run from them, but when doing I will devise ways to bring alight and aright to the right’s wrong deeds and words that have beset our Great and Abundant America.

Then on another notion many on that side of the fence have some folks posted around to take ones out any way they can. Do you get that?  So why be seen with those inclined to hire folks to do their dirty work for at the core of most like that beats the heart of a chicken hawk.  Try to name just a few of the hundreds that have made Washington DC their stomping grounds for years laying out the plans that have come full circle today.

Forget about needed reforms new policies procedures for the common good for taking care of widows and orphans, our sick and dying veterans, our national health care system going to the ravage dogs, energy lies on every corner of every street, student loans that can not be paid back, families living in tents for their homes have been ransacked by the repo man, our prisons and jails are running over with those with minor charges against the STATE alcohol and marijuana crimes——but do not forget this the BIGGER DEAL——- THAT SEEMS TO BE FALLING THROUGH THE CRACKS TODAY IS THE GRAND THEFT OF OUR NATION BY THE ROBBER BARONS.

IF YOU SEE THE NEED———-JOIN IN and ENLIST to serve with your VOICES being heard and your VOTES being counted and moved along to our lobby group in Washington DC to be power pushed with the peoples needs, wants and wishes in our cities, states and Federal Governments.

Contact Dwight Baker We The Peoples Advocacy WTPA we are providing the only HOPE in saving our great nation. 
For Info contact .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

WHAT WIZ KIDS CLOWNS
CAUSED THE FINANCIAL MELT DOWN

WHAT IS WORSE A BANK ROBBER THAT STEALS REAL CASH AND GETS AWAY?

OR A BANK ROBBER THAT CREATES THE ILLUSION OF CASH AND CONVINCES ALL TO HELP KICK SOME REAL CASH TO HELP HIM GET BACK ON HIS FEET?

THE WHEN GETTING THE REAL CASH MAKES A MAD DASH TO GET AWAY?

NOW WHO DOES GEITHNER SUMMERS AND FELLOW THIEVES THINK OR BELIEVE THEY ARE KIDDING? 

NOT YOU OR I.

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NEWS FLASH FROM KABUL

ON THE FINANCIAL MELT DOWN AND WHAT CLOWN DONE IT

WORD just in today from KABUL from HOBO MOE AND INDIAN JOE sent on the hot trail as bounty hunters to find all that supposed missing cash from the big banks vaults.

They had this to say. “Hey boys in CONGRESS you wasted our time——- thar ain”t no cash a missing that is REAL ——we found some funny goings ons on their books and stuff but no real cash a missing.  Somebody big must have tolt yall some lies?”

So MOE and JOE being bounty hunters for nigh on 50 years
Said “ You boys in CONGRESS wasted our time we been doin bounty hunting that is our only job and we need some bucks to help us get back on our feet again for all this wasted time.

We thought you didn’t know nuttun when you gave us this har JOB and in that WORK we were called stupid “Os” that we AIN’T and LIKIN and taking insults right and left, We are dun with your type—-so FEDEX us a check for $300.00 to cover our expense.

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Ole MOE AND JOE never got their check CONGRESS said no one around to sign it.

This entire debacle goes straight to the CRA and Barney Frank

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM

I’m not up to an essay , either.

So-called free mkt Capitalism, doesnt work and is inhumane. Only a greedy Anglo-WASP “civilization” would continue it, when the gap between rich and poor is larger than in any other so-called “free”
civilization (so many “so-calleds”, cant use enough quotes). All the money on Wall St (is there any?) wont buy back all the lives that the uS pursuit of Empire has destroyed.

I truly wish that those whose main fear in life is “govt” and taxes, would move to the Deep South and seceede, before they drag the rest of this country down like an anchor.

Labor is the key to physical production, not money, derivatives, or corporate efficiency. Neither is union organized power.

The institutional motivation of labor is based upon the subsistence drive of hunger. Hunger of the belly kind motivates all food production. Demand is directly proportional to population. Higher cost foods give way to lower cost foods in a crisis, whether on the individual level or on the world level. Basic subsistence is the key to money value, which in turn sustains all other production and consumption. The capacity of labor to sustain excess production that supports all activities over food production is directly proportional to productive cost of excessive food production. Raised cost of upscale food creates an economy beyond hunter gatherer needs. Adequate and sustainable food production with upscale excess creates the next level of activity. Ultimately, education at the top of the productivity capacity stimulates invention of comfort and joy products. Life takes on a faster and higher function.

Yet all is built upon excess production and exchange of labor product. It is the labor product that sustains all human motivation. Thus it is that nutrition is the first consideration, then leisure and convenience. Yet all labor diverted from food production and distribution must be adequate to the level of consumption of non-food products and services. Modern productivity assures potential food product to feed all mouths, even those not productive in non-food creativity. Maintenance of the non-productive is a luxury easily supported by an economy providing other luxury product and supporting other activities. Think of pets and zoo animals. Human values can be sustained with a normal production and distribution system.

Labor is the motivating force, sustained by food production. Capital is created as excess capacity beyond sustenance.

Not up to try writing an essay. Will only say that we are living in a slow-motion train wreck. Unlike most everybody else, I will add that the urgency of addressing what mainstream media has been doing must be changed. They are a crucial part of this three-legged stool. One leg is the U.S. Congress and the White House (government officials), another leg is the Corp. power elite (banksters and energy)and the third leg is the cooperative mainstream media. Obviously, the corp. elite calls the shots, the politicians carry out the orders and the mainstream media spins out the propaganda to manipulate and/or cover up.

This issue is too big to handle by myself. I call upon all who review this site to sit down with an open mind and deal with the issues one by one.

I shall deal with three: Capital, labor, and consumption. Others could be distribution, production, and technology.

Each has its impact more or less pure and simple. First, capital.

Most economies raise capital to a money value. Wealth is measured in terms of the market value, cost value, or utility value of items of capital production. Money value is designated in terms of a base, real or artificial. A real based money is ‘precious’ metals such as gold or silver. In some primitive systems, shells, beads, and other trinkets carried relative value in commerce. Salt, cattle, and grains also have been used.

Money metals that remain unchanged over time in weight and purity can represent money value that is permanent or near permanent. Salt caries money value as a perishable commodity. Salt can be used up in a normal use manner. Grains have value as human food. Both are perishable.

Money value itself arises from labor product usage. The errors can be seen in the extremes of totally perishable and permanent value assumptions. Value is a completely subjective concept. Market value is the preferred measure in most capitalist economies. Labor and utility value are the preferred measures in socialist economies. Market value can apply to the widest variety of value based commodities and products. Market value can also apply to services. Market value cannot apply very accurately to charity and cooperative association. Marriage cannot have a market value, though choice and preference are involved, as well as effort and time expended in the service of the relationship.

Fiat currency is the poorest choice, except for the defects of all others. Labor time, nutrition, comfort, and incentive all affect fiat currency value. So do technology, politics, and opinion.

Fiat currency should have a basis. The basis should represent real value over time such that value is retained and can be extracted in a reasonable manner and retain its incentive power to influence labor output and innovation.

In the end money should have the power to promote the benefits of a hunter gatherer economy in a modern setting. Money should serve vital and leisure products and activities. Some product should retain utility over time, while other product should serve purely perishable functions. Food value should be seen as perishable, but permanent in the preservation of human life, function, and social value. Thus a fiat currency based upon average human nutrition needs for protein or calories could serve the incentive, maintenance, and leisure value of production of all kinds. It could regulate the mix of production and transfer payment necessary to meet humanitarian assumptions without destruction of available food supplies. Gold does not do that. Rigidly controlled grain exchange could. Open market activity fails, when the value of gold, grain, or automobiles falls. It also fails when monopolies interfere with normal distribution efficiency.

Capital as money value of uncertain quality accumulated as a storage of future exchange fails to sustain economies over time in the cycle of production, consumption, and life security.

why Sam…such a clever little diversion…but…

YOU were the one that in the middle of a reasonably pleasant little exchange decided it was time to be a nasty little insutling boy…then YOU for some reason known only to your pathetic little mind decided it was time to offer me some free dental work if you ever stepped foot back in America…and NOW you say…“awww…is this really neccessary? See thats why no one likes Amewicans…”

So you tell me you brave wittle man…was it REALLY neccessary? Because YOU are the mouse that roared.

Well this IS intersting. Truthdig is ALL ABOUT the censorship apparently!

Lets try this again…but I wonder how long it will take them to delete this comment as well…

Sam…you threatened me with an actual ASSAULT online? My! Look at how ferocious you are, you little poodle. How tough…how…pathetic.

Our loss is very obviously New Zealands gain, you tuff little man. Internet bullies…how comical! And over…what again?

Im reasonably certain my dental work will remain intact…either way. But just look how precious you are to make big scary threats a world away.

Well Sam…Ive always said…if they could ever find a way toake out human nature and have true communism…I MIGHT now be opposed to that…

But it is that same corrupt group of politicians (who I DO NOT trust) that would put themselves in the position of power. And no…I dont want to see that happen…now or ever.

yes…I did buy in. Of course…I figure I LIKE a system where i can go from being the first high school graduate in my family history to being in a position to providing for my grandkids education because I worked hard and busted my hump. No ‘guarantees’ for anything other than the right to work hard and make it happen.

I think human nature has a tendency to corrupt people. Socialism ‘typically’ rewards the lazy. Now…dont get me wrong…New Zealand may be the gem…the crown jewel of socialism…but when I look around the world and throughout history…socialism hasnt fared too well over time. So…no thanks…

Sigh…

Which stories should I recite? Surely you know of them all…the canadian patient shutteld to 5 different hospitals because the first four didnt have staff or budget, Sylvia De Vires, story…story…story…story…and hey…we have them too. Should we talk about the cost…both the public costs and the REAL bottom lines…the ridiculous wait times…we can do this all day long…but honestly…its BORING.

It comes down to very basic beliefs. I dont WANT my government that deep in my pockets or my life.

I have read some of these posts and skimmed others. To tell you the truth the health care industry is in deep trouble. They are laying off nurses here in Minneapolis. Bad debt because people can’t pay their bills are added to the charity care condundrum that adds up to millions of dollars for the hospital to absorb. The health care world has also had medicare/medicaid cuts in payments to the hospitals.

Those individuals who have already lost insurance, don’t always qualify for medical assistance. Believe it or not! They don’t come to the ED unless they are very seriously ill. SO the cycle continues to cycle…sick patients can’t pay, hospitals can’t absorb the cost of medical care.

The introduction of medicare and medicaid in the 1960’s initially started for the elderly. Well that soon changed as more and more admendments were added on to include a large percentage of disabled individuals. Not that they don’t derserve care they do!!

So do we think more about socialized medicine? Maybe?

As far as the bailout money goes, it should of gone to the citizens of the U.S. we all would at least receieved $ 8,000. I personally could use that money…but alas the banks get what they want.
We dug out of the depression the first time, some people need to go back and remember this event.

tyler—thanks. Some of us know this to be true. There are huge economic interests here in the States that convince and scare people into believing that health care in not a human right, vut is just fine being a hugely profitable buasiness, while patients die much too soon. It is perhaps USA greed at its most ugly. Some are optimistic, but, the prospects dont look good, to me.

I have been treated in Canada—my (former)dr. sent me there for an orphan drug that was in trial., to try to avoid a surgery.(It wasnt being tested here, as it is a rare disorder, and the drug was not expected to become hugely profitable—-thats a no-no in the uS!) The dr was geaat. It was so comforting, when I felt so ill, to not be constantly harassed about my insurance and my financial status. It helped me to recover faster and to get back to work. Danish and Norwegian heatlh care was very similar (I guess many know that Denmark;s is best…but I am biased—-my family was born there and Norway—lol) I was also treated in Italy, with similar result (it is a little more behind the times—I was in a small town—-but this was years ago)

As long as USAns continue to believe that we need “insurance” (not care) and that we are “consumers” (not citizens and patients), 20-80,000 will die every year, very unecessarily. Those opposing single payer should be ashamed of themselves. But they wont be (I am a former social worker)

Making huge profits from others misery (as in disease or accident or war) is IMMORAL. What is it about that that you dont understand, vancemack?

In Korsor, Denmark (outside Kobehaven, a Naval port town), I was doing 6 mos at a WorkCamp, to teach sports to disabled children. I sprained (I was afradi, I had BROKEN!) my ankle. After the dr x-rayed it, and, wrpapped it, I pulled out my wallet. I thanked him profusely (he practiced from his very middle-class home)m abd asked, “What do I owe you?”. He sadi nothing. I said, “cmon! You really helped me out here”. He said, that the govt paid his salary. After a few minutes, he said, “You Americans just dont get it, do you? I do this to support myself, but, mainly bacause I want to help. I dont want your money”. I thought, “I think I get it now”.

I also ran out of a prescription I have had to take all of my life in Norway. I was able to explain it to the town dr (small town), who called mydr, and, got it the same day—- no charge. It wasnt just because I was a student. My friends in Denmark thought that it was strange that I was so overwhelmed.

Greed. Shame

Please excuse typos—-my RA is bad today…

Oh…and as for the doctors still having their summer homes? MOST doctors bust their ass, go deep into debt, study their ass off, work in two and three hospitals at a time, and when they reach their summer home status they have damn well deserved it.

And if MOST of those people out there dont like it, they should maybe TRY putting in the work themselves. You’d be AMAZED at the results.

And lest you jump in there with some idiotic comment about how their mommies and daddies all made it possible or because they are white and wealthy…try hanging out in nursing classes…med schools, and hospitals. Its an incredibly diverse hardworking group of people. Multicultural, straight, gay…no borders. Just dedicated hardworking people.

So yeah…touched a little nerve…just because your comments are idiotic and others might be stupid enough to actually give them credence.

That has not been my experience in Denmark, Norawy , Canada or Italy. Like I said, you cannot get routine care, and, have you ever seen an extremnely poor or mentally disabled person try to file a medical lawsuit?? 90% of them fail in this country—most never evenmake it to court. The majority are those crappy, but, necessary, (due to drs policing themselves here), class action lawsuits, where you get $1 for yur kid being killed) I didnt work at a hosptal I was out on the frontlines with the people you guys refused to treat. You sound like Dubya, with your “just go to the ER” crap. If you truly work in “health care” , and not in some private place,. you know that the situation you posit is bullshit.

Cuba is NOT “communist”, for the 100th time. They dont even claim that themselves. The Cuban ex-pats in LIttle Havanna have made a total mess of that part of Miami.They know that all they have to do is get here and support neo-con causes and the US will agree to keep starving out the people of Cuba, as if it were their fault. The US starve them out policy is brutal, in the MIddle East, too. Dont even go their with China as commmunist country bullshit. Its a capitalist dictatorship, thanks to people like Chairman Mao and the beloved neo-cons and neo-libs.. You know, like here only the US is more fascist.

So where does this free mkt utoipia exist, or does it? Austria? They are falling apart.

The socialist democracy I envision does not YET exist—but it may. Scandanavia comes closests to anywhere I have visited. If you dont like socialism, and you love laissez-faire money mongers, youre in luck! Youre certainly in the right country. All you have to do is quiet your conscience if you have one.

Oh! I see your “replies to yourself” filing into my email box as I watch! Must have hit a nerve…keep talking to yourself, No one else will listen.

Oh…one final for-the-record…

The only “communists” I know in America are the spoiled idiotic offspring of capitalists that suck off their mommy and daddy’s bank accounts while they spend 8 years in college talking about how bad their system of government is. they sport their little Che t-shirts and wear their ever-so-chic middle eastern table clothes as a fashion statement, completely oblivious to the fact that if Che or the middle easterners were in charge they would be the first to die. They destroy things at protests in expressing their outrage against violence.

I wholeheartedly think that every ‘true believer’ that claims to be a communist should LIVE under communism for…say…5 years. Then lets hear their idiotic rhetoric.

Oh…and for the record…its the friends in the Communist Party you know…the ones that are amazed that USAns will continue to pay for these fricking banks, and let their neighbors die from a lack of health care, food or housing…that comment that triggered the response. Because 1-most of those “communists” havent a clue what life in a “communist” country is all about, and 2-its the idiot leftists in this country that are in bed with the banks and bailing them out and 3-Love us…hate us….I dont care…but at least be an EDUCATED idiot…we provide better care under our capitalist system than any place I have ever been to and CERTAINLY better than any communist country has ever provided. (and Ive been extenslively throughout Europe, 4 years in the middle east, and all of North America). Point of fact…our PEOPLE are INCREDIBLY charitable and I believe would be even STILL more charitable if the government wasnt involved.

I cant speak to the hospitals you have worked in, but once a patient has been brought to a hospital they cant be refused service even if they cant pay. That includes the most complex procedures and equipment offered. If they are refused the hospital faces lawsuits and EMTALA(some places call it different things) violations. They may not like it but if you so much as TELL a patient they should try going somewhere else you can be hit with fine, suit, and loss of license. One of the reasons US medical costs are so high is that they DO provide care to “self pay” patients knowing good and well they will actually be “no pay.”

Now…can you get routine appointments? Sure…if you go through a medicare/medicaid provider. But since you have lived in those other countries SURELY you know there are two health care systems there as well…right? Or do you believe that all go to the same happy hospitals and receive the same happy care? Nah…didnt think so.

I also have lived in several of those countries. They treat life saving things…kind of. If you live close to a hospital its OK. However you are more likely to live near a ‘clinic’ which is understaffed and undersupported and then you are left to fight for available minutes and deal with the transportation issues…someites travelling hundreds of miles to find an adequate hospital system. They typically have about 14 administrators for every caregiver. In MOST cases their care is simply inferior to the care you can get in the US.

Im not sure…maybe i missed it or left it out…nope…there it is. I DID point out that some socialist healthcare systems were better than those found in Cuba and other COMMUNIST countries. Why do i go back to the communist countries? Why…because you brought up communism as if it is somehow not a dirty word. Well…Sorry…the facts are what they are. “communism” is a wonderful concept, usually espoused by idiots that have never lived under a communist regime.

Now, socialism is a nice concept as well…however…there is a reason why major cities in Canada and England have had the life squeezed out of them…because socialism has bled the workers dry and left behind a system that is not sustainable.

Vance—Wow! I must have hit a nerve! Try a little novacaine.

Saying that people on Medicaid get the same quality care as cash paying “consumers” (as capitalists like to call patients) is so ludicrous, I wont comment, I DO know for a fact that they do not.(Most drs will even TELL you that, when you are on Medicaid! They will tell you what they cannot do!) You are lying or ignorant. What is your JOB in the health care system??

I have lived in countries with so-called socialist medicine.(why do you keep focusing on Cuba? Did I mention Cuba??) The care was immediate, excellent and free. We cant say any of those things about the uS death care system.

But dont sweat it! The Dems are total sell-outs! The “reform” theyre proposing is mere window dressing. Drs will still be able to have summer homes and command larger salaries tahn anywhere else on earth, while 20-80,000 die every year.

You MUST know the stats..or, maybe not. You seem to be spurred on solely by emotion.

As for the communist party having the right to exist…of course they have the right to exist…and seek representation in congress. We even have an openly socialist senator in DC. And the democrats really are just by and large ALL socialists anyway. Which is why their ideas so badly fail and have caused such devastation within the poor communities. Because come on…a poor voter is a dependent voter…

What a bunch of leeches? Gee…wouldnt those be the same people you profess to care for as a social worker?

Its not propoganda…its simply the other side of the coin…the side you and people like you refuse to admit. the ONLY place where Cuba is ‘successful’ is the tourist areas and places for the wealthy. now…come on…how very UN communist of you. How very UN socialist of you. I thought this was about eschewing greed! Shouldnt Castro use his amassed wealth (what did Forbes put his wealth at…900 million?) to support even the least of his countrymen?

But…thats ALWAYS been the way with socialist/communist countries. The rich did just fine in the Soviet Union. But the ‘two worlds’? couldnt find them together with an atlas they are so separated.

And just…info you…our medicare/medicaid patients get the same quality treatment and access to life saving equipment as do the rich and insured. If you dont know that you are an idiot. If you DO know that and refuse to admit it because it doesnt support your cause, you are a liar to boot.

And you might want to examine that famous ‘free’ socialized health care in Canada, England…and…well…Id say Cube…but Cuba is by far the worst. You MAY get access to life saving machines IF you can reach the one hospital in the region that has the equipment and IF you get on the calendar on a regular basis.

Vance—Cuba is not “communist”—I didnt say that the UK was “communist”—I said that the party is allowed to exist there—you know “friidom”. Not like “freiidom” here in the US to “die with your rights on”.

Yes, I think that Cubans are better off under a socialist dictatorship (which is what it has become)than they were under Pinochet. As you say, no system is perfect…

But, Scandanavia comes damn close…heard about the Austrian meltdown yet?? Ah, the myth of the “free mkt”..

Like John Edwards said, you cant get chemotherapy in an ER. And it costs ALOT more than visiting a drs office! I feel sorry for your patietns. I worked as a social worker for many years. One client died very young of a cancer that the fricking institution he lived at refused to treat. So dont try to tell me, you are just selfish. I have many famuly and friends whio have suffered and died early because of the uS death care industry.

“therealcuba” is propaganda, same as Castro’s. It is just generally not accepted as such, because of the Cuban “friidom fighters” in Little Havanna. I used to live down there—ha!! What a bunch of leeches!

Joe is spot on…we have lost our industrial base and THAT is why we continue to struggle. Oh…and we have a government that is huge and worthless. We should let the market prices correct themselves, force the banks to fix their own mess, and encourage reinvestment in US jobs, which means the labor unions need to close shop. All they are right now is a cash cow and a political tool.

As for the communist rap…really? Do you honestly believe people are better off in a communist nation than in the US? I recommend you look at the weblink posted below. Assclowns routinely go to Cuba and see the vacation spot that Castro created…but do they go into the rest of Cuba and see what Castro has really brought the people there? Of course not.
http://therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

Oh…I know propoganda. Like all those stories of food, healthcare and fuel shortages in communist USSR and in North Korea-those are all lies to. The satellite imagery at night which demonstrates a prosperous nation in South Korea but a desolate tragic waste in North Korea…those are all doctored.

In the US…you have more service organizations, food banks, free and subsidized health care than ANY communist nation. Perfect system? Of course not…but there is no such thing.

I work in hospitals. NO ONE can be denied health care. I work with food banks. The generosity of the average citizen is SO MUCH more powerful and effective than any government system of support.

Even socialist (not communist…big difference) countries are scaling back more and more on their ‘free’ healthcare services. Because oh yeah…SOMEONE has to PAY for those services.

Joe Hayes—And, not to mention that the rest of the (sortve) civilized world has a social safety net to fall back on. (As China becomes more capitalistic, the gap between rich and poor widens)

I listened to some of the protests today in London. (I know a few people in the Communist Party there—no, its not a curse word there—-or anywhere else) They are more amazed everyday that USAns will continue to pay for these fricking banks, and let their neighbors die from a lack of health care, food or housing.

Shame on the US, I say.

I don’t know why everybody acts so suprised. Our eCONomy has always been about CONfidence, since we hardly make anything we buy anymore - unless it’s from McDonalds and we’re talking about making a hamburger (who’s ingredients were probably made overseas anyways). There’s a reason China isn’t hit as hard… and the only reason it’s hit at all is because we bought so much from them.

TAO,

  I don’t know if any of us really sees the whole elephant but we sure knew it was there.  The con that money is wealth and if you’re smart and use OPM, you don’t have to produce anything, definitely always has had the smell of elephant shit to me.

Most everyone has heard some version of the ‘blind-men-and-the-Elephant’ fable.  Each blind man defined the whole Elephant by whatever ‘part’ of her he happened to stumble into.

Meaning no disrespect whatsoever, but Bertil (in the fable) would be the blind man who leapt to his own CONclusions after stepping knee-deep in Elephant shit.  His nose tells him something smells real bad.  His feet tell him there’s an awful lot of it, and it can’t be easily shaken-off.  His ears, from the comments of his ‘peers,’ tell him the Elephant is a ‘beast’ all but incomprehensible in its strangeness and complexity.  Taken altogether, he ‘knows’ an Elephant is something he sure-as-hell doesn’t want on his hands.

Nevertheless, those of us who’ve actually SEEN THE ELEPHANT still appreciate Bertil’s thoughtful guesses about what it is, exactly, all over his shoes and pantlegs.  He of course has plenty of company in this particular predicament, too….if that’s any comfort.

HokaHey!

Hey where did it go?!!!

I was looking forward to sitting down with this.

Please bring it back.

Hey where did it go?!!!

I was looking forward to sitting down with this?

Please bring it back.

There are some interesting comments right here.
positive thinking

Bertil wrote:

“I wonder smugness and self-righteous pontification are part of the Toshipaye Way?”

Bertil, is it wise to be so critical and self assured?
Remember, Native Peoples existed on this land for many millennia while Euro/Americans are failing after only 232 years.  In these times it is better to understand what TAO is speaking of.

I wonder smugness and self-righteous pontification are part of the Toshipaye Way?

Okie Dokie

It’s over, Sisters and Brothers.  “Western civilization,” along with its CONfidence-scheme “global” eCONomy is now reduced to a heap of smoking toxic wreckage in which nearly all of the “livestock/passengers” still remain trapped, while the operating “crew” go-about looting their luggage, pilfering the mail, and of course robbing the allamerican express….all on orders from absentee “owners” who expect never to be caught dead anywhere near the scene of their “crime.”  And just to make sure the “....huddled masses” can have no further doubts about their designated ‘place’ in the pyramid-scam of “things,” it’s all being done under their noses, right out in plain sight, with the “security forces” actively aiding and abetting the pillagers.

So one wonders what good some commenters here see coming out of their endless “deck-chairs-on-the-Titanic” pursuit of the trivial details of their predicament.  What could it possibly matter now which “parts” of the CONtraption failed, when the damned thing was all-of-a-piece anyhow?  How will assigning “blame,” to perps whose names and whereabouts are unknown (at least to their subject/citizenry), help the legions of those poor fools to begin rescuing one another from literally life-threatening CONditions that no amount of self-righteous finger-pointing can do a thing to alleviate?

Granted, the immensity of the mess they’re in has yet to penetrate the shocked-and-awed senses of most of our tame two-legged Relatives.  That the entire CONtext of their increasingly miserable half-lives has collapsed on them like the house-of-(marked)-cards it’s always been, is too much to take-in, at first….what with the latest “election” shell-game just over, the illusion of “normalcy” still being broadcast and cabled relentlessly into the Human rubble, the tendency people have to keep going-through-the-motions even in the immediate aftermath of some cataclysm, especially of this sort-of virtual “neutron bomb” variety, where the “psycho/physical” world appears to be mostly intact.

Us surviving free wild Savages saw this coming and’ve watched it happen.  Some among us even waved warnings to those hurtling along blissfully ignorant of what lay immediately “ahead.” 

Here’s maybe the last “word-of-caution” we can offer those already beginning to mill-around the crash-site, trying desperately to figure-out how to get the rattle-trap machinery of their captivity up-and-running again.  You are all at “....the end of the line.”  Those ominous “sounds” you hear coming from the ideological/instutional/electro-mechanical apparatus that’s just “delivered” you to this “pass” is the prelude to its sudden catastrophic self-destruction.

So you’d all best WALK!, TOGETHER!, quickly away from the disaster area.  It doesn’t really matter right now what “direction” you go in.  There’s nothing but Natural Wilderness all-around all Y’all, anyway.  Once you’re at least loosely reORGANized into some semblance of our natural Human FORM, you’ll be able to recognize in your midst those of us free wild Native Guides who can show you the rest of the Way back to whole healthy Humanity.

HokaHey!

The following two posts were found on breadwithcircus dot.

Explaining the Credit-Crisis: Why The Bailout Won’t Work
People don’t seem to understand the conditions that have led to what is being called the “Credit-Crisis.”
I’ve been doing a lot of research on this and I think that I have a pretty good handle on what really happened
here, so I’m going to try to explain it in a way that people unfamiliar with the disastrous practices of Wall
Street can easily understand. Its complicated, but bear with me.

First, banks and other agencies began issuing what have been called sub-prime loans. These were mostly mortgages
with really low interest rates. The loans were structured so that the people who took them out would have very
low payments for the first eighteen months or two years of the agreement, but much higher payments after that.
In many cases these loans were given to people who had no income, no job, no assets, and no ability to make
payments once the higher rates kicked in. However, because of the time-lag between the issuing of the loans, and
the day when payments would inevitably stop, firms realized that they had a brief window of opportunity to turn
temporarily valuable loan papers into billions of dollars. 

Enter the Collateralized Debt Obligation. (CDO) Firms would carve the sub-prime loan debts that they owned into
pieces and repackage them as a product called a CDO. A CDO would have little slivers of all sorts of different loans
pieced together. A CDO might consist of 1% of Mary’s second mortgage on a house in San Diego, 1% of Manuel’s car-loan
in Atlanta, 1% of Mohammed’s mortgage on a house in Kansas City, and 1% of the money that Acme Widgets Inc. borrowed
when they wanted expand their factory in Pittsburgh.

Continued on next post

Even though the firms knew that many of their loans would and could never be repaid, because of the time-lag between when the loans were good and when they went bust, the firms could temporarily list their CDO’s as assets. Because of this, it was in the interest of firms to issue as many dodgy loans as possible, in order to create as many CDO’s as possible, in order to hold as many assets as possible. Firms began buying and selling their CDO’s and using them as collateral when taking out loans of their own.

Enter the Credit-Default Swap. (CDS) Firms holding CDO’s made deals with highly-rated firms. (Companies with good credit ratings like the now nationalized AIG) The small firm would pay the bigger firm to co-sign with them on a very large loan, often from a privately owned bank called the Federal Reserve. The small firms would list the income they were making on their CDO’s as collateral, and then make a payment to the large firm for their golden signature. Having a large firm with a good credit rating as co-signer, dubious firms were able to borrow at astronomical rates, in some cases at a ratio of up to 40 times of what the CDO’s were (temporarily) worth.

Big firms saw windfall profits through their ability to sell their signature to smaller firms. Smaller firms borrowed tens of billions of electronic dollars at low interest rates from the Federal Reserve Bank, among others. The stocks of the firms involved in the scheme went through the roof as they were able to show massive amounts of money on their
balance sheets. A handful of CEO’s made billions of dollars.

Now the chain reaction. The time-lag has caught up to us, and the higher payments on the sub-prime loans have kicked in. People can’t make these payments, so one of the slivers in a CDO package, then another and another becomes worthless.
The value of the CDO is compromised, but the firm who holds it had already borrowed an astronomical amount of money against it. With nothing coming in from these now worthless CDO’s, firms holding them no longer have enough income to make payments on their debts. Since the smaller firm can’t meet its debt obligations, the company that co-signed the
CDS deal with it has to pay. The larger firm, which has made many CDS deals finds themselves owning the debts of many smaller firms, and they have to “write-down” their profits. Stock prices dive and some firms go bankrupt while others are nationalized.

Now the final piece. These large firms are the ones who have been lending money to regular people, regular businesses, and your bank. Perhaps your RRSP or 401K has put part of your life savings into some of these firms’ stock. Now the big firms can’t make loans anymore, they have diverted all of their assests to making payments on the bad debts they
hold. It is all that many of these firms can do to avoid going bankrupt themselves. One fails, then another, and the problem is compounded. There is very little money available now for people to get a loan to do anything at all, from buying a house, to sending their kids to college or buying new infrastructure for their businesses.

The suggested solution to this problem has been for the US treasury to give troubled firms a “bailout”, but that’s not even going to come close to solving the problem. With interest factored in, there are tens, or maybe even hundreds of trillions of dollars worth of bad debts out there (700 trillion according to Alan Gurfinkle). The bailout, if it were passed, would do very little to the solve the problem, though perhaps it would delay the inevitable collapse of the credit markets until after the US election (written before the Age of Obama).

Contrary to what a previous post claims with respect to Glass Steagall and European banks, the European banks are in deep, deep trouble.  Since the European banks did not have anything like Glass Steagall, before the undoing of Glass Steagall, US investment banks used the European banks as their source of cash.  Remember, Glass Steagall separated the function of investment banks from commerical banks.  When they got Glass Steagall out of the way, the first in a series of death blows to our financial system, the investment banks now had access to commercial bank depositor’s cash.  And they made hay with it.

The following link is to an article written by Joe Nocera of the NY Times.  This article was featured on the John Stewart Daily Show. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/28/business/28nocera.html?ref=business

Wall Street is fighting against the re-enactment of Glass Steagall because they don’t want to go through the same process to get rid of it again.  They want to have a clear path to access the bank deposits the next time they pull this off.  These people don’t really understand moral hazard.  That’s media talk to them. 
John Palmer, the Prime Minister of Canada where the banks have not failed, said on the Fareed Zakaria show last Sunday that Canada learned the lessons of the 1920s and was surprised that the US did not.

Blather!

Read, “Sold Out” by Robert Weissman and stop listening to right-wing radio.  Their main strategy, as it seems is yours as well, is off-the-wall conflation and if that doesn’t obscure at first blush, then sophistry

Bertil, it’s fascinating to know what your gut tells you.  Your instincts are well known to have an accuracy rate of, um, how much?  I forget.

But Krugman!  Well, Krugman is an economist and a columnist.  So if he says that the impact of Fannie and Freddie are less than previously believed, that means, um, exactly what does that mean?  I guess it means that they did have an impact, but that some have overstated it.  OK, that’s fine.  Probably others have understated it.  The point is that the GSEs played a role and that they did so despite warnings of those who saw the problem coming.  Their warnings were ignored by those who wanted to lend-to-weak borrowers policy to continue.

I agree that AIG was overexposed to CDSs.  So what?

But, anyway, I think we’ve made progress.  We’ve retreated from the unsustainable claim that the repeal of Glass-Steagall was somehow the cause of the current debacle, and have acknowledged that financial institutions were placed under stress when an over-inflated housing bubble resulting from federal housing policy finally collapsed as the weakness of borrowers was exposed by interest rate increases last year.  Robert Sheer’s nutty claims to the contrary notwithstanding.

Enjoyed chatting with you.

Bertil…you dont think it could be the PEOPLE that bought stupidly and overextended themselves and got those stupid loans…

Why does everyone demonize the lending institutions as if they tricked people into getting loans they couldnt afford? People bought and bought and the prices went up and up…and people bought…and the prices continued to skyrocket. I KNOW numerous people that made these stupid decisions. We talked about it when they were doing it…“I can get the loan and in three years we can refinance at a fixed rate” or, “in three years we will be making enough to cover the payments…”

This HAS to stop. You CANNOT borrow yourself into prosperity and you cannot spend yourself into economic solvency. And when this FAILS to solve the problem they will do it AGAIN…only this time they will need MORE…and MORE…

Let the markets crash. Let the housing market crash. Let the banks fix their own messes (renegotiate long term low interest loans) or go under. in 2-5 years we will be fully functional and solvent again. If they had done this we would have been a year and a half into recovery already.

My gut feeling tells me that Paul Krugman is right, that the Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac didn’t have as great an effect on the financial crisis as was first believed and as was painted by right-wing talk radio.

Six months apart, AIG gets massive bailouts.  Could these be timed to payments due for the massive credit default swaps?  I think they do.

“September 17, 2009 - Ultimately, AIG went under because of its massive $441 billion exposure to credit default swaps (ironically, the instruments used to insure against default on assets like subprime mortgages).”

“March 3, 2009 - Six months after its initial rescue of American International Group Inc., the government is no closer to an exit strategy for its entanglement with the troubled insurance company.”

Now, after Bernanke got some angry reactions from the reps in the Ways and Means committee, how do they cover the next one? 

Someone is bound to pick up on the timing.

Every real estate downturn creates an “over-built” problem.  So, you’re right, that isn’t unique.  What is unique in this circumstance is the duration and magnitude of the up-cycle, which turns out to have been driven by incentives/penalties encouraging mortgage loans to weak borrowers and by over-participation by Fannie and Freddie.  There were plenty of warning voices that the GSEs balance sheets were out of whack.

AP Business Writer Eileen Aj Connelly Yahoo! News Fri Feb 20
Volcker sees crisis leading to global regulation

NEW YORK – “Even the experts don’t quite know what’s going on.” [Paul Volcker]

“Speaking to a number of those experts Friday, Paul Volcker, a top economic adviser to President Barack Obama, cited not only the lack of understanding of the global financial meltdown but the ‘shocking’ speed with which it had spread across the world.”

“He scoffed at the notion that those entities must be free to innovate — stating that financial “innovations” like asset backed securities and credit default swaps have brought few benefits. The most important “innovation” in banking for most people in the last 20 or 30 years, he maintained, is the automatic teller machine.”

When you say the real estate market didn’t behave as expected, do you remember the late 80s to early 90s?  As one developer put it, they built too many $400,000 McMansions and not enough $200,000 houses.  Condos went up everywhere only to be torn down later when the bottom fell out.

Bertil writes:  “Due to credit default swaps (a form of bet), the banks might be into debt approaching 1.5 quadrillion dollars, while some estimates give the world wealth to be around 77 trillion, and you’re saying diversification is the answer.  What planet are you on? This hog is going to bring everything down with it.  No Glass Steagall in Europe meant that Wall Street and the City of London could use them for money sources.”

Bertil, I’m here on Earth, same planet as you.  I’m looking at the same facts.  I just have a better handle on them.

I didn’t say that diversification was the answer.  I said it couldn’t be blamed as the cause of the problem.  Short-sighted government policies are the cause of the problem.  It is possible that you and I even agree on that, while perhaps disagreeing about which policies are to blame.

The last sentence quoted above uses the word “them,” but the antecedent isn’t apparent.  If you’re speaking of credit default swaps (CDSs) they would have existed with or without Glass-Steagall.  In effect you have predictably shifted the argument from repeal of Glass-Steagall to a generalized argument about CDSs, still without any cause-effect connection to the current problems. 

The CDS market assumed that real estate markets would behave normally, which is to say in a manner similar to and predicted by past history.  The current correction (to put it mildly) in real estate prices is highly irregular, as a result of the abnormal pumping up of mortgage availability through federal policy.  This, by the way, explains why vancemack’s post, while generally cogent,  misses the mark - this is not your daddy’s real estate bubble. 

The unregulated CDS market is holding up better than the regulated bond market. Here we are more than a year into the credit meltdown and the CDS market is offering more liquidity than the actual cash market.

Large investors have often struggled mightily to find buyers for their bonds, but they could still trade CDS. The U.K. government seems to agree this is a good thing. Her Majesty’s Treasury has recognized the CDS market as an efficient mechanism for setting prices by using it as the benchmark to set the rates in its Credit Guarantee scheme for banks.

In the U.S., meanwhile, the market has spoken, and CDS contracts are the way that investors now price credit. This means Congress should tread very carefully unless it wants to prolong the downturn. In an environment in which fewer companies are able to issue bonds and trading is light, a liquid CDS market that can put a price on credit will hasten the day when more companies are able to borrow money to build their businesses.

Hyperbole?  The stock market has gone from over 14,000 to under 7000 in three months.  The Fed has issued giveaways of about 9 trillion dollars.  Bush and Paulson asked for $700 billion bailout not batting an eyelash and not wanting to answer to anyone. 
Due to credit default swaps (a form of bet), the banks might be into debt approaching 1.5 quadrillion dollars, while some estimates give the world wealth to be around 77 trillion, and you’re saying diversification is the answer.  What planet are you on? This hog is going to bring everything down with it.
No Glass Steagall in Europe meant that Wall Street and the City of London could use them for money sources.

“In any event, what’s becoming increasingly clear is that the bailout brothers are all members of the same clan: think of them as a Mafia family, with a strict hierarchy of authority and command, albeit an informal one. At the top is the Don, finance capital, which controls the engine and sits at the dashboard pressing buttons according to a pattern: first inflation, then deflation, boom then bust, peace and then war again. But the bailout boys always parachute to safety before disaster envelopes the rest of us. Which is why failure only emboldens them.

Our rulers really do believe their empire is too big to fail, but of all the would-be lords of creation, our own ruling elite may have the shortest reign – and the hardest fall. The engine that runs the machinery of imperialism is breaking down at key junctures, and the whole structure is teetering and creaking ominously, as if to presage the coming implosion.

For the truth of the matter is that the very bigness of the American Imperium, the sheer scope of its rulers’ ambition, is precisely what is fated to bring about its downfall, and a very messy and painful descent it will surely be. As I relate in Reclaiming the American Right: The Lost Legacy of the Conservative Movement, during Rose Wilder Lane’s eye-opening trip to the Soviet Union in the 1920s she met a Russian peasant who predicted, with perfect accuracy, the fate of the commissars some 70 years later:

“‘It’s too big,’ he said. ‘Too big. At the top, it is too small. It will not work. In Moscow, there are only men, and man is not God. A man has only a man’s head, and one hundred heads together do not make one great head. No. Only God can know Russia.’”

The problem is that some men think they are gods. In the end, however, we will all pay the price for their hubris – the guilty as well as the innocent – as the American empire meets the fate of its Soviet predecessor, and for the same reason. “

~ Justin Raimondo

The housing bubble was a result of maverick prosperity and nothing more. People had several years of growth and disposable wealth. Unemployment was at virtual zero (even after supporting the Mexican economy). People bought new and bigger and more expensive homes and everyone was thrilled. Everyone profited until one day, the bubble hit max density…it simply couldnt grow anymore. It hasnt burst…it simply has grown stagnant and will remain stagnant until the housing prices are allowed to correct. As long as we continue to artificially support inflated home prices there will be no movement, high unemployment, bound credit, etc etc etc.

Let the housing market crash. Let the prices for homes correct (sorry if that means your 600k home is now only worth 200k…thats all it was worth in the first place). Force the banks to renegotiate terms (long term fixed rate and low interest)or die. Get the government out of the solution before they “fix” us to death.

Bertil posts to a long, rambling blog purporting to blame everything on the repeal of Glass-Steagall.  I wonder why he bothered - the blog entry isn’t any more focused, coherent or explanatory than Robert Scheer’s own ramblings featured on this site.  Repeal of Glass-Steagall allowed banks to diversify into the brokerage business and vice versa, just as was always permitted in Europe.  OK, we got that.  That leads to the housing bubble exactly how?  No answer is offered. 

The housing bubble was the result of federal policies designed to encourage, if not indeed coerce, mortgage lenders to provide loans to weak borrowers.  Those loans were then consciously and deliberately securitized by government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), popularly known as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and implicitly backed federal guarantees.  It was the free-market people who thought that this would be bad news, warned against it, and were proved right. 

I wrote earlier that no evidence has been offered relating banking diversification with the economic disaster brought on by federal interference in the housing sector.  Truth Dig doesn’t cite any evidence, and the blog linked by Bertil doesn’t either.  It is easier to make up stories than face facts apparently.  I agree that Citi was mismanaged by Robert Rubin et al., but that has nothing to do with diversification.

Glass Steagall:

http://my.opera.com/richardinbellingham/blog/show.dml/1796860