Sgt Lauro Chavez USA is the most obvious piece of fiction I have ever read. Whatever tin-foil hat-wearing liberal wing nut wrote that certainly has a future as a novelist, but it’s not truth by any means. Of course, many of the other people who frequent this site wear the same tin-foil hat, so I expect a lot of cheering from that crowd. Please understand, though, that no sane American believes that nonsense.

I have watched a few hours worth of movies on the 9/11 cover-up and am pretty much convinced.

The official pentagon story does not match the alleged pilot’s abysmal skills, the observable damage, the allegations of Pentagon employees pointing to an explosion, and the allegations that a plane with the attributes of the Pentagon’s Boeing was the subject of a mass airport evacuation elsewhere because of some “hijacking.”

A close examination of CNN’s DVD on the New York attacks shows that the bottom of the fuselage of the plane hitting the South tower is unmistakably different from a Boeing 767, and that furthermore it is asymetric, as if some object was attached to one side. Furthermore, a close examination of the only footage of the North tower attack shows an explosion occuring in the tower, in front of the plane, slightly before the impact.

Firefighter conversation records, released under public pressure a very long time after the attacks, indicate that the North tower fires have almost self-extinguished, as one would expect since the kerozene had to burn away in a few minutes and office materials are generally fire-proof.

Removing evidence from a crime scene is a federal crime. Why were the WTC debris removed so promptly by a company called “Controlled Demolition” that investigators could not analyze its structure to check that it met the proper standards…or to find that it had been melted through one of the processes known in controlled demolitions?

Why do the official explanations of the North and South tower collapses ignore the existence of the 47 huge center support columns which were the spine of each building? Why do they ignore that the buildings were made in 3 superimposed pieces, making it a total pulverization impossible unless in a controlled demolition? Why do they assume that the floors were virtually free-floating and waiting for a tiny disturbance to free-fall and blow themselves off into big clouds of fine concrete particles?

Why does the government offer no valid explanation for the collapse of the 3rd New York tower, WTC building #7? Or is a 47 story building not worth a thorough investigation?

Why were there so many security glitches in the WTC over the last weeks before 9/11?

Why does the media seem to accept the official theory that implicitly claims that the laws of the universe were suspended in New York and Washington on 9/11? This comes from the same people that regard as reasonable the contention that God made the universe 4000 years ago and that Global Warming is not worthy of correction.

Folks, it’s more than time to press the government and the media on this. Just Email them when you have a chance. This is the 21st century; truth and love can only triumph in the end…

Re the conspiracy theories elaborated in a previous post:

I have been unable to establish the authenticity of ‘Sergeant Lauro “LJ” Chavez’. It is not clear whether this person actually exists and whether anything that he supposedly has stated is a fact.

I would hope that people would try to do a little fact checking before posting uncorroborated information as fact.  This site is called “Truthdig” for a reason I assume.

NAFTA Highway, North American Union, and the End of the Constitution and United States of America.
Our government, media, and others (CFR) keep our attention on the Iraq war while our sovereignty is destroyed by Bush and others in power.
911 was planned and executed to destroy the U.S. and bring in the NEW World Order. Bush’s father said before Congress and our Congress gave our liberty’s and rights away and now they will be destroyed by the new North American Union.

Response to Deb Conner’s remarks,
  “Time to put up or shut up”
    First, I need to apologize to anyone who read that post. I was a little worked up when I made that available.
  To Deb in particular, if you read my comments a little more carefully you would have noticed I said “continue to call for”, which means the idea is not new but is never-the-less still pertinent.
  Most people believe it is an unrealistic,untenable view, could NEVER happen, etc., etc., but those that think “never” are often surprised by the impossible made possible. 
  By the way, FEAR is driving most opinions of late. Fear is not a barrier for me…personally. I am perfectly willing to to put myself on the front line in such an effort but only if the majority of…WE THE PEOPLE… are willing to back-up me and others willing to sacrifice ourselves for the greater good. We cannot fight the devils with weapons. That’s why most people are fearful. We have to approach this in a committed & completely NON-VIOLENT manner or we all lose!
  I’ve been there and done that(demonstrations, freeway blogs,investigations,etc.) and thus far, time,money,and effort has been wasted and very little progress has been made.
  Maybe I’m completely off-base. Can anyone a offer a better plan? I’m certainly open to suggestions and if another plan makes more sense and is more effective…I’m there…NOW!

Sergeant Lauro “LJ” Chavez, 9/11 Whistle Blower Speaks Out to the Editor of the Cincinnati Post
http://www.v911t.org/SergeantLauroChavez.php

Thought I’d share this rant with all you Veterans - It kills me when
idiots don’t do their homework…

stationed at United
States Central Command, which is located at MacDill AFB in Tampa
Florida. I was on active duty when 9-11 happened. In the days prior to
the tragedies, we were involved in many exercises. Some of these
exercises included the scenarios of hijacked planes crashing into, our
building the world trade center, the White House, Sears Tower, and the
Pentagon. These drills or exercises as we called them, where
classified Top Secret. Having a Top Secret rated clearance I was
dumbfounded that they would ever push a training exercise above the
level of Secret. Over my 8 years in the Army, I had participated in
many exercises around the world, none of which were ever classified
over the Secret level.

Ill start by saying a few months prior it was announced by President
Bush that Dick Cheney would be heading up operations over NORAD our
North American Aerospace Defense Command. Along with many of my peers,
we were shocked. Over the years, if you research NORAD, it has always
been under the command of a Military officer. It was done this way
because the defense of this country has always been in the hands of
such. Prior to the months before 9-11 this was all of the sudden
changed. Like I said, if you research NORAD and the command structure
you will find that it was imposed long ago that the military should be
in control of the order to scramble planes in the defense of American
air space. For some strange reason, Bush changed this and gave that
power to a civilian person on his Staff team yes I know, very
interesting.

Back to the morning of 9-11; the command was busy with this training
exercise. We were instructed to bring all our gear in to prep for a
mock (staged) deployment to the Middle East. On the morning of 9-11 I
had been on base prepped and ready to go since about 0400am. During my
time at the base that morning, they were setting up barriers around
the command and placing gun posts on the roofs. When I questioned one
of the security officers about the machine gun and shoulder fired
rockets on the roof I was given the answer its a precaution for a
plane attempting to crash into this building.

So, I was standing in the SCIF (Secure Compartmented Information
Facility), which is basically this underground bunker command post for
USCENTCOM, when the first plane hit. We were watching the fly patterns
of all the planes on the aerospace grid. This contained not only all
commercial flights at the time, but all military flights, and fake
enemy planes that were supposedly put on there for the exercise. Many
of the planes sent to intercept the fake blips were scrambled from
Andrews which is an air defense AFB for the East Coast. They were sent
across the US and left very few planes to defend the capital. After
the first plane hit the tower we were all in disbelief. After the
initial shock was over, our questions were what are the odds this
could happen for real, during a training exercise thats covering the
same scenario? We were all at wits end. Then to top all of this off,
Cheney gave NORAD the order to stand down scrambling jets to
intercept. A few moments later tower 2 was hit. Only after the
Pentagon was hit, did he give the orders to scramble the jets to
intercept the plane bound for the White House.

All of this is very interesting to me it sickened me so that I left
the Army after coming back from an 8 month deployment to Afghanistan.
There were just too many questions that no one could answer, too many
things that did not make sense. How is it possible to have a training
exercise about planes hitting the WTC and then actually have planes
hit the WTC? This kind of thing just does not happen unless its
pre-planned. What reason would there be to have this type of exercise
on that morning, Ill tell you if you are placing fake planes all
over the north American aerospace grid then you have no way of
knowing which planes are real and which are fake. Then to thicken the
plot you put a civilian in charge of NORAD so that the military does
not have the power to initiate the order for jets to be scrambled to
intercept. If the military would have still commanded power over NORAD
they would have scrambled jets because they would have simply
followed the procedures that had been in place for this type of
situation for years and years and scrambled jets.

To delve even further, as Im standing there watching the towers
collapse, next to me is one of my good friends and a former commander
of the Army Corps of Engineers. He is a demolitions expert. He was
even more surprised than me. When the towers collapsed he kept saying
this isnt right, this isnt right. When I asked him what he was
talking about he told me that steel buildings dont fall down that
way. Even if they are struck by objects; he went on to say that in
theory if the top 10 floors were hit, then possibly just that part of
the building would fall over and off, but the rest would remain
standing. When I asked him, not understanding the implications of
demolitions, he told me that it looked as if they were brought down by
controlled demolitions. I was utterly amazed, but after he said that
it did sort of appear that way.

Ill tell you what gave this whole thing away was building 7. If
they would not have brought this building down, then they probably
could have gotten away with it all. It was the most amazing site I
have ever seen. Not only was it amazing, it bore reality to the truth
of the situation something was not right here. Now, Im going to
tell you all I have learned, but I urge anyone to just spend 1hr
reading about this incident on the internet and learning the facts.
There have been numerous scholars, numerous physicists that have
analyzed this over and over and over again. And they all come to the
same conclusion, something does not add up. Building 7 was never
directly hit by a plane. Now it was stated that a piece of one of the
towers fell onto the side of building 7 and caught one of the floors
on fire. A few moments later we all witnessed the most perfect example
of controlled demolitions to ever be caught on camera. It could not be
proved that building 7 fell due to fire. My friend and I standing
there in the SCIF watching in uninterruptible awe with all those other
military members; watching building 7 fall perfectly onto its
footprint; my friend stating that it was beautifully done.

We all knew then we all realized that this was not some group of
unorganized cave dwellers from Afghanistan orchestrating a perfect hit
on American soil. It was impossible. Shortly after the Pentagon was
struck I called my close friend that I went to Basic Training with.
All civilian lines were down and I had to contact him via STU which is
a black line classified phone system. He did not answer, but one of
his soldiers did. I asked if SGT Worthington was ok and he said yes. I
asked if the plane did severe damage and he told me I didnt see any
plane. Then when I finally got to speak to my friend, he started
acting strange saying he could not talk about the incident over this
line. He was shipped off overseas a few weeks later and I never to
this day have had the chance to speak with him.

The Pentagon crash tape was released a few months back after 5 years.
You need to watch that tape no where can you see a plane strike the
Pentagon. This is because it was not a plane. I cannot tell you
exactly what hit the Pentagon, but its unanimous; it was definitely
not a plane. I can assure you that there is more than one CCTV camera
around the Pentagon. On September 25, 4 days before my 25th birthday,
I deployed to Afghanistan. Over the 8months I was there I had never
seen one intelligent Afghani soldier. They were all tattered and
scrawny and could barely shoot their weapons straight. This does not
mean that there were not men that could fly a plane, but after what I
saw it was extremely hard to believe they could be taught to fly a
sophisticated piece of aeronautical equipment.

My point Mr. Editor is that I spent 8 months in combat watching my
brothers die in the name of Freedom. I killed, in the name of Freedom
and to this day my brothers are still being killed for this
illusionary war we call the War on Terror. Where the enemy has no face
where there is no clear objective. In this War, anyone with ill
thoughts toward this country can be defined as a terrorist. Well, I
guess that includes me in this group as well as everyone else who
questions the events of 911, because we all hold ill thoughts toward
the leadership of this country and I say the real terrorists in this
world sit right in the heart of its capital.

I have bled for this country and would do so again in a heart beat
but only to protect its people, the true Americans that live here. I
would never again offer my life under the leadership whose real goal
is oil and money. The same ones who staged the most perfect
illusionary tactic in our history that was a pretext to a war on
terror that would never again go away. Their goal was to scare the
American public into submission making it easier for the world powers
to do their evil and get away with it.

Now that may sound like a typical conspiracy theorist I guess, but how
many do you actually talk to? Im not here saying that Aliens came
down and used laser beams to bring the towers down or control the
planes that were flown; Im telling you as a sane, logical and
intelligent individual, something does not add up about this. Earlier
this year I was watching the Discovery channel. They have a PBS
program called Rebuilding America. This particular episode was about
the WTC building 7. They interviewed Larry Silverstein (the owner)
about building 7. He stated on national TV the following which is the
direct quote and can be found here: http://www.wtc7.net/pullit.html

I remember getting a call from the, ER, fire department commander,
telling me that they were not sure they were gonna be able to contain
the fire, and I said, “We’ve had such terrible loss of life, maybe the
smartest thing to do is pull it.” And they made that decision to pull
and we watched the building collapse.

I actually have the program recorded and you are more than welcome to
come by my house and watch it. He actually stated this on national TV.
I was so amazed that I almost shat myself. I could not believe he
actually stated this on a nationally broadcasted TV program. You can
ask any person who has done controlled demolitions please interview
someone they will tell you it takes weeks of planning to do this. We
are expected to believe that this was facilitated and planned in a
matter of hours for building 7, while the damn thing was on fire you
have got to be kidding me. If that is not enough to make you believe
something was fishy well then nothing will ever do.

Since that time there have been numerous scholars, some of which have
actually been publicly broadcasted on CSPAN. The latest program was
called: Theories about 9-11. American Perspectives and you can watch
this (which I advise you do) per this link: Theories about 9-11
(American Perspectives) or you can go to http://www.c-span.org and look under
their video/audio section to find this title. Its an outstanding
video and encompasses the thoughts of not only the American public,
but also Dr Steven Jones from Brigham Young University a physics
professor that actually received a piece of the rubble from the WTC.
Not only does he profoundly agree that building 7 was a controlled
demolition he can prove it. After he analyzed the piece of debris
they found; there were large traces of sulfur and Thermite found. If
you did not know, Thermite is a chemical compound found in many
explosives including C4 which I have used many times in the Army. It
leaves a distinct smell and identifiable residue upon explosion. Dr
Jones found large traces of this from the rubble.

Sir, there are many things that I never wanted to know for one that
the government that is supposed to be caring for the American people
could be corrupt. This was the last thing that I ever wanted to be
true but its time we wake up and smell the bullshit because its
permeating throughout the American public and we are all starting to
realize whats really going on. If your news station actually did a
similar Zogby type poll here in Cincinnati, I think you would find
that a lot more than 1/3 of the people believe this. I know tons just
in this area.

I could literally write you 100 pages of truths that could prove that
9-11 was an inside job, but Id probably just be passed off as some
crazy conspiracy theorist. Instead I want to give you the tools to
look for yourself because the quest for wisdom is a journey we must
all take alone. So, to you I add the following links and if you just
spend a small portion of your day reading and watching some of this
footage, who knows you may wake up and stand along side the rest of us
in utter amazement.

Respectfully,

SGT Lauro Chavez
United States Central Command

MORE:
http://www.v911t.org/SergeantLauroChavez.php

Two areas that urgently demand and require scrutiny are:
1.  The relationship between the Pentagon and Mamhoud Singh, the ISI official who wired money to Mohammad Atta;
2.  The Dekker Flight schools where the terrorists trained and the CIA.

All the nonsense about the towers being salted with explosives or a missile painted as an airliner hitting the Pentagon is a red herring and possibly promoted and encouraged to make all who wish to inquire look kooky.

What I meant was—has any politician confronted Bush and in front of congress or the senate—asked him to explain his brother—Marvin Bush and Cousin-Walker,their envolvement in the 911 fights and WTC and why they were never called to explain to the 911 commision.
Just take any large insurance claim and the Insurance company fights-tooth and nail in court. Not even a murmur or whisper,the company paid out $4billion to Silverstink. On a $100 million investment of 6 months.  Where is KockioRonchee,to ask—-No arabs did this but You-GW Bush.
When cartoons make fun out of Bush’s brother Marvin and his doings—Time to replace all our politicians.
please do get to read & see this cartoon. To bad Paul E Newmann is not depicted as one of the 19.—great laugh !
http://blog.abovetopsecret.com/wecomeinpeace/2006/09/911_graphic_novel_the_real_ver.html

Comment #25457 by Time to put up or shut up!  on 9/25 at 11:59 am

The time for talking is over. The time for action is NOW. >>

The time for action was long ago. Now they have the exits covered and they have stun guns that can do whole crowds, incarceration places ready, Blackwater Security waiting in the wings. Bush would love to declare martial law, so we can’t give him the opportunity to do that.

We can always protest— do it ala Freeway Blogger, put up info, articles on every spare blank space. Post-it notes in books. We know we’re the majority, and these little observations of freedom give us all heart.
As for doing something—right now, get the vote out, give the Democrats the chance to use the law we have left to restore the government to serve the Constitution. It’s not the time for protest votes. There are good people trying to do this work, if only the Republican majority would let them.

The Republicans have shown every step of the way that they intend to rule every facet of life in this country and push that rule by force as far as they can. That ain’t no Democracy.

In Intelligence, the Armed Forces, there are still people who know this is true, who want to change this path. What Gore spoke about, the change that comes suddenly, like some critical mass. That’s who, what we are. Toil awhile, endure awhile, believe always, and never turn back.

“Name one politician: Ok, how about Dennis Kucinich?  I also believe Bill Nelson has been calling for a “real” investigation.  And here in Florida, Dr Bob Bowman is the Dem nominee for Congress from district 15.”
________________

Bob Bowman is great!  Listen to Dr. Robert M. Bowman, Lt. Col., USAF, the former head of the Star Wars missile defense program under Presidents Ford and Carter speak with Alex Jones, explaining why he has gone public to say the official version of the 9/11 story is a conspiracy..

http://www.newsofinterest.tv/audioPages/alexJones_colRobertBowman_01.html

The time for talking is over. The time for action is NOW. F_ _ _orget these piddly one day calls to action. I continue to call for a permanent demonstaration,rally,protest,whatever for demanding that the entire GOVERNMENT step down and not until this is accomplished do we leave the federal enclosures for their use. When do we get the BALLS to say ENOUGH is ENOUGH. I’m sick and tired of the true spirit of this country being wasted while everything we have been taught about how to deal with these people is being ignored. Circle the city of DC and every govt. building in it until they give up. Only then can we begin to rebuild what is RIGHTFULLY ours. How BLIND can we continue to be!!!! No 1% or 10% of the world has the right to control how the rest of us live. If we don’t act YESTERDAY we might as well stick our heads between our cheeks and, WELL, you know EXACTLY what!!!!

Name one politician: Ok, how about Dennis Kucinich?  I also believe Bill Nelson has been calling for a “real” investigation.  And here in Florida, Dr Bob Bowman is the Dem nominee for Congress from district 15.  He says:

beginning of quote——

The truth about 9/11 is that we don’t KNOW the truth about 9/11, and we should. I will sponsor (and have already lined up co-sponsors for) legislation initiating a truly independent investigation of 9/11. There is mounting evidence of possible complicity by elements of our own government.

If they have nothing to hide, why are they hiding everything? Why are they hiding audiotapes of FAA and NORAD controllers? Why are they hiding videotapes of whatever hit the Pentagon? Why are they hiding the black boxes? Why did they destroy most of the forensic evidence which appears to show that three buildings at the World Trade Center were brought down by thermite demolition charges? If the thermite residue found on severed steel beams didn’t bring down the towers, what did? (Never before in history did steel skyscrapers fall because of fire, and THREE of them did on the same day … one of which wasn’t even hit by an airplane!) For the government’s story to be accepted as factual, they will have to explain why WTC 7 came down. Why did four hijacked airliners fly around for up to an hour and 45 minutes without being intercepted? Why were normal procedures not followed? (If normal procedures HAD been followed, the aircraft would have been intercepted with 20 minutes to spare, the twin towers would still be standing, and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive.) If it was massive incompetence, why has no one been fired? … or demoted? … or court martialed? (Instead they were promoted or given the medal of freedom!) If Osama bin Laden was really suspected, why did our government violate its own “no-fly” order to hurriedly fly the bin Laden family out of the United States before they could be questioned? Why does the “Osama bin Laden” in the “confession” videotape have a nose about an inch shorter than the real Osama bin Laden? Why have half a dozen of the 19 “hijackers” turned up in other countries … alive and well? Were there really any hijackers at all, and if there were, were they patsies? Who made millions on short sales of United and American Airlines? Where is the tens of billions of dollars worth of missing gold that was stored in the World Trade Center? Why did the Secret Service not whisk the president away from the school where he and the students read about a pet goat even after it became clear that the nation was under attack?

The American people and the families of those who died on 9/11 deserve the truth, and we do not yet have it. The above are but a tiny fraction of the unanswered questions not even raised by those who “investigated” the 9/11 tragedy. The most unbelievable of all the conspiracy theories surrounding 9/11 is the OFFICIAL conspiracy theory told us by our government. The Kean-Hamilton-Zelikow commission report was a whitewash, a cover-up, and a bundle of deception. I have spoken to both Governor Kean and Congressman Hamilton, and they admit that they were lied to about why there was no intercept. If a new investigation discovers a wider conspiracy and identifies living people (American or foreign) as being responsible, they should be indicted for treason. And those who covered up the treason should themselves be indicted as accessories after the fact.

If, however, a new investigation finds that the government’s current story is essentially correct, then it should go beyond Kean and Hamilton to assign responsibility for the failure of our air defenses to protect the Twin Towers and the Pentagon. There must be accountability. Without it, we will never know why our multi-trillion dollar defense establishment was unable even to protect its own headquarters from an unarmed aircraft. This is unacceptable. It leaves the American people with no assurance that they can be protected in the event of another attack.

—end of quote

Though I’m not in “Dr. Bob’s” district, I have sent him contributions, because we need people who can face difficult questions such as these.

See Dr. Bob’s “issues” page for more enlightened issue statements:

http://bowman2006.com/issues_az.htm

Exposing -who done it,will never happen,unless the democrats start asking questions. Just try to name one politician,who might side with us ?—none ! If one does—I bet his private jet will develope—engine problems in mid-air.You think I’m joking—?

Please take a look at this page which contains many interesting audio and video clips about the questions of government involvement in the 9/11 attacks..

http://www.newsofinterest.tv/911.html

“It’s inconceivable that five years after September 11 no one
involved in the incineration of thousands of people would have
regrets, second thoughts—or even towering self-interest. Imagine
the book deal, the movie deal waiting for that whistle blower.”
- JoANN WYPIJEWSKI from counterpunch.org

There’s your counterpunch blah, blah, blah.
For a conspiracy to be possible the people involved
would have to think that what they did was for the
greater good. Their thinking would have to be that
3,000 dead would be a small price for keeping our
petroleum based country moving forward. I for one
believe that’s not a stretch for many. I also believe
many witnessed the events, told the truth about what
they witnessed and have been pooh-poohed by the
experts as not having the knowledge to correctly
interpret what they saw.

A lot of people live with regrets. Do you really think anyone
would forgive an insider for coming forward? Imagine that,
“I knew about this atrocity all along and decided it was time
to stop the madness.” Insiders come forward all the time. Not!!!
If they did why would you ever need a subpoena?

Why are all files of the Warren Commission sealed from public
view until 2039? “You want the truth?” They think we “can’t
handle the truth.” 75 years bought those on the commision and
their immediate family members time to be forgotten and overlooked
compared with future crimes. Why would they allow such documents
to exist? Because it’s possible that some involved did have regrets at
doing something they believed was for the greater good.
“This is the right thing but let’s cover our asses in the annals of history.”

75 years, imagine. When was the last time you critiqued the decisions
of FDR? His last surviving child passed in 1991. President in 1933,
last immediate desendent 1991, roughly 60 years. Yep, 75 years will
do nicely. We’ve only got another 33 years to wait! Yay! Let’s thank
Gerald Ford while we’ve got the chance!

Warren Commission, Pentagon Papers the Watergate Tapes. I’m not
comparing those “minor” glitches in our history for what is going on
now, they just confirm the possibility of deception and the need for scrutiny.
For good, bad or just plain ugly this would not be the first time we were thought
of as being unable to comprehend the reasoning of our elected leaders.

Many objective researchers are looking skeptically at the Official Conspiracy Theory (OCT).  The NIST conclusion that the weight of the damaged and burning upper floors caused the lower floors to pancake down and collapse at “freefall speed”  runs counter to the laws of physics. Here is an excerpt from one such discussion:

>In order for the tower to have collapsed “gravitationally”, as we’ve been told over and over again, in the observed duration, one or more of the following zany-sounding conditions must have been met:

The undamaged floors below the impact zone offered zero resistance to the collapse
The glass and concrete spontaneously disintegrated without any expenditure of energy
On 9/11, gravity was much stronger than gravity
On 9/11, energy was not conserved
However, none of these physics-violating conditions can be accounted for by the official government conspiracy theory of 9/11, nor by any of the subsequent analyses designed to prop up the official theory of 9/11.

Bottom line: the government/PBS/PM/SA explanation for the WTC collapses fails the most basic conservation-of-energy reality check. Therefore the government/PBS/PM/SA theory does not fit the observed facts; the notion of a “pancake collapse” cannot account for what happened. The “pancake collapse theory” explanation is impossible, and thus absurd.

It is utterly impossible for a “gravitational collapse” to proceed so destructively through a path of such great resistance in anywhere near free-fall times. This fact debunks the preposterous contention that the observed WTC collapses can be blamed solely upon damages resulting from aerial assaults.

So, to the extent that people accept the ridiculous “pancake collapse” explanation, Gates’ other premise, that people know what they saw, is also incorrect. It is left to the reader to decide if his conclusion, which was based upon two incorrect presumptions, is also flawed.

The purported “gravitational” collapse (video) of World Trade Center building 7, which was hit by zero aircraft, and which also vertically collapsed in within a second of free-fall-time-in-a-vacuum later that same day, similarly fails this same conservation-of-energy analysis.

The explanation for how and why so many highly-accredited and credentialed people all so miserably failed to check the “pancake collapse” theory, by giving it this basic reality check, is beyond the scope of this simple physics discussion.

read entire article with gravity physics equations proof http://www.911blimp.net/prf_FreeFallPhysics.shtml

As stated, I was addressing West’s:
“If it weren’t for the obvious irony and creativity of most of these conspiracy theories, I would regard them with deep sadness and embarrassment. ...”

I emphasized the validity of considering conspiracy. 
————

911 ushered in a revolution of changes in our government. Looking back, we become suspicious. We no longer trust those in power because we know they have lied to us. They fail to admit both lies and fault. They are disingenuous with colleagues who have been elected with equal right to represent the American People; indeed, they *freeze out* the elected representatives of over half of the nation as they *exclusively* determine all priorities: when and if investigations and hearings are held, who and what staff is hired, the issues, the legislative agenda. ( See Comment #23504 on the Patriot Act.) 

The question has to become WHY?

Circumstantial evidence, empirical evidence: that’s what we use to make sense of the world. It’s what we have, all we’ve ever had. Motive is a valid factor used in judgment.

Bush is again justifying more invasions with the same warmed-over bag of recycled mis-truths (as well as new mis-truths (  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/09/13/AR2006091302052.html  ). Sheer’s dig addresses questions long repressed (see the articles gathered here: http://www.jungcircle.com/muse/whywar.htm ), opening up a critical dialogue. 911, the road to Iran, the “War” on Terror. Bush has made them all of a piece. That’s no way to examine any reality.

Speaking of the weird need of the 911 conspiracy buffs to believe that it was all an inside job, Joann Wypijewski writes:

“Why is it so hard to believe that when you kick people around for so long, destroy their countries and kill their children, eventually someone will kick back?”

http://counterpunch.org/jw09222006.html

“these fanciful tales are the ‘Intelligent Design’ of the left. And just like the actual Intelligent Design theory, there is no point in logical refutation. “

The simplicity and clarity of these words by Beck Out West was then IMMEDIATElY missed by Dawn S., Maani, and Deborah Connor, along with the irony.

As I said: We’ve heard this all before with the assassination of JFK.  Oliver Stone even made a scurrilous movie that claimed to be history and was filled with all the “facts” the conspiracy theorists promoted.  It was a vile ethically as that recent Disney faking of the Clinton admin.

Not ONE of you has addressed the NOVA episode on the fall of the towers—which included why these planes caused the collapse and what simple measures that are NOW available to architects could have prevented it.

Just like the JFK conspiracy theorists never addressed the NOVA episode showing how it was TOTALLY feasible for Oswald to have shot JFK, and how the “magic dancing bullet” was the result of the mis-interpretation of evidence.

None have you have addressed the IMPOSSIBILITY of keeping this conspiracy secret, that it involves convincing hundreds, even thousands of Americans that attacking our own people on our own soil is a “Good Thing” AND to keep that secret. Nor the political fallout—one solid witnesss, the equivalent of Richard Clarke, and even the neo-con fascists running the Senate and House would be forced to impeachment. Far, FAR too risky when there are SO many other ways that Mad King George and his Merrie Fascists can take absolute power. 

Finally, watching Mad King George sit in that classroom, continuing to read “My Pet Goat” with a totally TERRIFIED deer-in-the-headlights look after being notified we had been attacked tells ME that he could not have known.  He is evil, and a criminal, but there been a conspiracy, they would have made DAMN sure that Mad King George was positioned to look like a leader in charge, not “like he had to go the bathroom.”

The “Intelligent Design of the Left.” PERFECT, Beck!

Of course 9/11 was an inside job, and the insider was none other than burocracy. Any beurocracy as big as the US government is bound to be disfunctional. If the conspiracy theorists could only admit this, they would realize that all their mumblings were a total waste of time.  By the way, does anyone know how to spell bureaucracy?

To MadAsHell and the other Official Conspiracy Theorists:

  I keep reading that the Bush Administration is too bungling and American society is too open for any conspiracy to be kept secret.  Then, I watched Madeline Duncan Brown’s “twilight of life” confession and am amazed that all that conspiracy has been kept so long.  Her story is so plausible to anyone familiar with Texas politics that I have to believe her.  Perhaps Grand Conspiracies can be kept secret, especially if those involved have unlimited power and funds to hush whistle blowers.

  Given today’s technology, the legal and illegal sources of funds for black ops and the long period of time since “Northwoods” type plans have been in the planning stages, I am surprised a 9/11, Pearl Harbor, Reichstag event did not happen before 2001.
  Oh great all knowing ones, I can’t wait to read how you will debunk Madeline Duncan Brown’s testimony.
http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=madeline+duncan+brown&hl=en

To Beck Out West et al:

“Willful factual omissions?”  You mean like The 9/11 Commission Report willfully omitting ANY reference to WTC 7?  You mean like the Report willfully omitting any reference to the 47 vertical internal core columns of solid steel in the twin towers, not only from the text, but from the diagram of the towers?  You mean like the Report willfully omitting all the amusing-if-it-weren’t-so-serious conflicts of interest of the Commissioners?  You mean like the Report willfully omitting that the Commission’s Executive Director, Philip Zelikow, was not simply a Bush partisan, but a member of the Bush-Cheney transition team, and a charter member of one of the major neocon think tanks?  You mean like the Report willfully omitting any mention of the two pools of molten steel in the sub-basements of the twin towers?  You mean like the Report willfully omitting any mention of the fact that there were explosions in the basements of BOTH buildings PRIOR TO the collapses, both of which were reported by multiple witnesses in sworn testimony to the Commission?  You mean like the Report willfully omitting the fact that not one, not two, but FOUR separate military exercises were coincidentally staged that very day - not only keeping much of our air force busy, but deliberately planting false transponder signals in two separate “anti-hijack” exercises?  You mean like the willful omission by the Co-Chairs of the Commission that they KNEW the Report was compromised by, and I quote, “the non-cooperation, obfuscation and lies” of the Administration, and agencies and individuals thereof?

I could go on and on.  The point, of course, is that it is not the alternative theorists who are resorting to “willfully factual omissions.”  It is the government’s own supporting evidence - contained in the flawed and hopelessly compromised 9/11 Commission Report - that resorts to such “willfully factual omissions.”

As others have said here, it is not necessary that the alternative theorists prove any particular or specific scenario re 9/11.  As in a court of law, we need only show that there is “reasonable doubt” that the government’s “conspiracy theory” is true.  And we have actually gone beyond “reasonable doubt” to “preponderance of the evidence.”

Indeed, we have proven - “BEYOND a reasonable doubt” - that the 9/11 Commission Report is seriously flawed and compromised.  No free-thinking individual who knows the players involved and reads the document can find otherwise.  And since tha

In Comment #24798 by Beck Out West on 9/21 at 4:07 pm began:
“If it weren’t for the obvious irony and creativity of most of these conspiracy theories, I would regard them with deep sadness and embarrassment. ...”

Spies, traps, conspiracy? Claptrap. We gentlemen have none of that. You have our word.

West darling, let me warm you a crumpet and suggest that you catch up on some conspiracies of the past, which, like all the best laid plans, began as theory. Feast: 

<a href=“http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv”>http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv”><a>

The National Security Archive…
An independent non-governmental research institute and library located at The George Washington University, the Archive collects and publishes declassified documents obtained through the Freedom of Information Act. The Archive also serves as a repository of government records on a wide range of topics pertaining to the national security, foreign, intelligence, and economic policies of the United States. The Archive won the 1999 George Polk Award, one of U.S. journalism’s most prestigious prizes, for-in the words of the citation-“piercing the self-serving veils of government secrecy, guiding journalists in the search for the truth and informing us all.”

“Listen, Moirai (Fates) ... hear our prayers ... send us rose-bloomed Eunomia (Good Order in civic government) and her bright-throned sisters Dike (Justice) and garland-wearing Eirana (Peace), and make this city forget its heavy-hearted misfortunes.” - Greek Lyric V Anonymous Fragments 1018 (from Stobaeus, Anthology)

If it weren’t for the obvious irony and creativity of most of these conspiracy theories, I would regard them with deep sadness and embarrassment.

With their stupendous ignorance, obstinate logical errors, and willful factual omissions, these fanciful tales are the ‘Intelligent Design’ of the left. And just like the actual Intelligent Design theory, there is no point in logical refutation.  As history teaches, logic has always been imagination’s ugly sister.

Just as those who are captivated by the pretty story of creationism must reject its ugly sister Darwinism and its dowdy evolution babble, so too, the 9/11 buffs must reject the relatively pedestrian fact that 19 guys, with nothing but boxcutters,  cold resolve, and a diabolically brilliant idea, perpetrated perhaps the most spectacular crime in history, against the most powerful nation in history.

It is wounded pride that drives these theories, rising from a deep seated shame that our vulnerabilities could be so easily exposed. To those who find themselves shell-shocked by the sight of the gaping hole where the twin symbols of American might once stood, it is a saving grace to believe that an all-powerful secret government cabal executed the attack of 9/11 as part of a broader plan to maintain US military and economic hegemony in the world. To those whose national pride spills over into narcissism, it is decidedly more comforting to be the subjects of skillful, albeit heartless and self-serving masterminds, than it is to be caught phoning it in by a handful of seriously pissed-off, but otherwise ordinary fanatics.

At a dinner party I attended recently, a theorist began to tell his version of 9/11. I found myself coiling like a panther, waiting for the most savory moment to strike. Then I noticed the faces around me. Clearly the other guests were by turns amused, enthralled and mystified. It occurred to me that this was all part of a process of healing. I decided to keep my mouth shut. What good could have come from it? No minds would have been changed by the heated argument that would have surely ensued. At best I would have come off as the buzzkill in the cheap seats who exposes the magician’s trick.

Despite my own sense of shame that so many on the left, as well as some of my most intelligent friends drink the conspiracy kool-aid, I console myself with the thought that all of this is, for many of them, a natural phase of denial that will gradually give way to acceptance. One can only hope that this phase is over soon, because there are plenty of real conspiracies out there, more urgent, and more deserving of America’s better minds…

slightly off topic….but the phrase “in God we trust” was placed on the dollar bill between 1935-57

why?

to reconcile an obvious inconsistency between the professed belief in Jesus who said, “render unto Caesar…” and the lewd continuing solicitation of $$$ by the church.  If the money says “God” then, like the story goes, you can render it unto him, or give it to the church and be doing God’s work.

Unfortunately the fact that Jesus threw the bankers OUT of the temple, was lost in the ... complete departure of American christianity from any semblence of the beliefs Jesus actually held.

To respond to other points here:

the November election will be decided by DIEBOLD (tm)
Chumpy plans to nuke Iran…war starting just before the mid-terms
the House has just passed a torture bill and the Senate version STILL contains an elimination of habeus corpus, rendering the issue of whether torture is or isn’t allowed, academic;

and we are fucked. 

Now, having said that, I hope to hell I am wrong about EVERYTHING.

When Hillary Clinton spoke about “The Vast Right Wing Conspiracy” she was laughed at and poo-pooed.

In fact, there IS a vast right wing conspiracy—John Kerry fell victim to in with Swift boating, and we all fell victim to in when Diebolt made sure their voting machines were easily tamperable—by GOP supporting Diebolt.

The systematic placement of neocon ideologues in positions we used to not care about: state level Secretary of State—in Florida and Ohio these activists managed to swing the elections.

So it’s not that I don’t think Mad King George and his Merrie Fascists aren’t capable of vast, destructive, vicious conspiracies, and criminal acts. I do.  But the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon simply do not fit their style or capabilities, nor the CIA’s.

So while you all WASTE your time on this—and it IS a waste of time, I’m going to concentrate on the real-world crimes that Mad King George and the Merrie Fascists are CLEARLY engaging in—like torture and seeking the legal cover to engage in torture, trials without evidence, and the ability to execute someone without him even knowing why.  Are we the Killing Fields of Cambodia, Serbian “Ethnic Cleansing”, Stalinist “anti-imperialists”, Maoist “cultural revolutionaries” or Nazi Gestapo?

Or are we The United States of America, once the greatest bastion of freedom in history, and, maybe, if we work hard and are lucky, will soon be so again.

The previous guy who buys the official conspiracy theory should examine the site of Jim Rarey and check out his piece that examines the biographies of the 911 commissioners who were all cronies.  you really didn’t answer any of the facts that were put forth but do the same as the sad sack popular mechanics salesmen did.  your answers are all conjecture.  you present no facts but to say that the facts are wrong.  what else can you do, you have only conjecture.  this is a republican ploy, a kind of verbal slight of hand.  it sounds like an answer but has nothing that really addresses the facts.  spend some time on the websites before you make a fool out of yourelf

Geez! You conspiracy theorists! You couldn’t accept that the basis for the “magic dancing bullet” was unsound, and you had to believe aliens had been on Mars because there appeared to be a face in the mountains.

“To Mad as Hell:
You are yet another Coincidence Theorist who has obviously not looked at the evidence.”

No, I just don’t make up fairy tales to explain what is obvious.

“Building 7 was NOT hit by an airplane and yet it fell like a perfectly controlled demolition into it’s own footprint.”

Who says it was like a perfectly controlled demolition?  I had friend in 7, he ran out after the North Tower was hit, saw the plane hit the South Tower directly over his head, and ran for his life.  What the HELL is so hard to understand???  Two GIANT buildings that are part of the same structure, each far larger than 7, both in height and breadth, collapse.  Hundreds of tons of debris fell on 7 (Yes, it did, but your reductionism ignores that) just as the whole ground was shaking like a giant earthquake. Has anybody computed what the Richter Scale effect on the close-proximity buildings was?
 
“You overlook the videos showing that most of the jet fuel from the 757 that hit WTC 2 exploded outside the building just after impact. There was no “enclosed environment” there.”

No, SOME of the fuel exploded outside. Again, reductionism by conspiracy theorists.
 
“A physics professor from BYU, Dr Jones, says he has evidence that thermite was used because sulfur was found in melted metal from the WTC rubble site.”

Who? Why have you ignored the NOVA study on the buildings’ collapse, which was clear and logical? Want to get into dueling experts? Or are you going to try to tell me that NOVA was part of the conspiracy as well?

“Pools of molten steel burned for weeks after the attacks.  Please at least look at the countering evidence before trying to discount it. “

There is no countering evidence, only faulty interpretations of it.

“The official story does not add up. “

I’m far more likely to believe the Kean Commission than the either the White House or the usual gang of conspiracy nuts.

“You expect me to believe that 19 Arab zealots with box cutters, lead by a madman in a cave were able to penetrate US airspace and go off coarse for over an hour with no attempt by NORAD to intercept them.”

DUH!!! Talk about ignoring evidence! There was nothing to getting a box cutter on a plane prior to 9/11.  I flew on many domestic and international flights with a Spyderco pocketknife in my pocket—they would check that it was less than 4 fingers wide and give it back. Even after 9/11 security stunk in all kinds of ways.  In fact, it STILL STINKS—it just harasses you and me and in EVERY test dangerous weaopons are missed.

Next, until 9/11 IT WAS STANDARD POLICY NOT TO RESIST HI-JACKERS!!!!  The theory was that you flew them to whereever, usually Cuba, and they let you go.  The ONLY scenario for crashing a plane into a building was in Tom Clancy’s “Debt of Honor”.

As for using a box cutter as a weapon: in the hands of an expert, ANYTHING can be a deadly weapon.  Hold it to a stewardess’s eye and it’s as effective in the pre 9/11 environment as a machine gun.

What’s an hour? All you do is have the pilot make some excuse.

“The Muslim zealots were able to execute phenomenal aeronautic turns at incredible speed and hit their targets with only a few months of flight school training.”

Phenomonal? Incredible speed? What have you been smoking?  Please get your facts straight!

“To really top it all off I am to believe that one of the attackers threw his passport out the 757’s window, so it could be found intact and be used as evidence against him.  Too bad he didn’t throw the airplane’s black box out the window so we could really nail him.  The Black Boxes are still awol. “

You know, in a disaster, it’s always amazing what does and does not get destroyed. If you think that he tossed his passport out a window then you trully know NOTHING about air liners—and I thought I was ignorant! LOTS of paper survived the attacks—it rained down on the streets. All sorts of odds and ends from the planes did too.

“I really cannot swallow the Official Conspiracy Theory.  Please do contact me when you can explain to me who placed put options on United Airlines the day before the attack and made several hundred million dollars on the transaction and then did not bother to collect the profit. “

OK, I’m not familiar with that.  I’d like to see that evidence.  Based on all your other mis-interpretations I’d bet you’ve got it ALL wrong…transactions can always be traced. Always.

Again, no evidence, just a refusal to believe that we could have generated so much hatred abroad, and have left ourselves so vulnerable to a patient and intelligent enemy.  Why is that so inconceivable???  Those two assholes in Washington, DC terrorized the whole area for 3 weeks with a rifle, a car, and random shootings.  Imagine if Al Qaeda used THAT scenario! They could bring us to our knees in 6 months! I’m just thankful they haven’t.

The mysterious put options: a good percentage of them were placed by an investment company connected with Buzzy Krongard, who is 2nd or 3rd banana at the CIA.  By strange coincidence, this company is also closely linked to BCCI.  Since these are such nice people, I don’t think we should worry if they make a few million on “lucky guesses.”

Mad as Hell:
“I’m perfectly capable of thinking for myself—that’s why I’m aware the buildings were NOT designed to take the impact of the planes that hit them, only the much smaller 707s.”

Actually, the 707 and 767 are very similar in size, weight, cargo capacity, speed and fuel capacity.

see the comparison here:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/boeing_707_767.html

I find it highly amusing that you keep citing reasons like this: ‘only the much smaller 707s’. The WTC were designed to withstand MULTIPLE strikes of a 707, let’s be perfectly clear here.
Much smaller you say?
wingspan difference: 10 feet
length: 6 feet

On a 150 foot aircraft, I hardly think that would qualify as ‘much smaller’.

Mas as Hell:
“All you conspiracy nuts continually engage in reductionism: Ignoring inconvenient facts, like none of the 19 bomber being Iraqi or Iranian.  Were it planned by the WH, as you contend, they would ALL have been Iraqi with clear ties to Saddam, more so than Osama Bin Laden.”

You could not be more wrong. We invaded Afghanistan first, if you recall and obviously the WH didn’t need them to be Iraqi or Iranian, we invaded anyway didn’t we? This entire point is baseless unless you can prove any of these men actually carried out the crime, which the FBI has now admitted ‘there is NO hard evidence’.

http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=144830

Mad as Hell:
“I have no problem with steel behaving in strange and unexpected ways when 100,000 tons of it falls a quarter of a mile straight down.  Under extreme pressures strange things happen.  At the bottom of glaciers, the ice is so compressed it acts like gelatin.  Coal under extreme pressure forms clear crystals called diamonds.  And steel has been strengthened and shaped for centuries by deformation, folding and re-deforming.  I’m no metallurgist but clearly you conspiracy buffs know even less about it than I do!”

Wrong again. It didn’t ‘fall’, it was pulverized from the top down, literally. Several city blocks were covered in powdered concrete, not the large blocks from the sub floor that would have to occur if it collapsed. The evidence simply does not fit the official story. I’m sure you’ll accept all sorts of ‘strange’ and ‘unexpected’ outcomes, including the violation of the laws of physics.

Mas as Hell:
“And the temp that jet fuel burns?  Does that take into account a pressurized environment of tons of jet fuel in an enclosed space? Didn’t it occur to all of you that gasoline burns far, FAR hotter when it’s compressed in your car’s engine cylinder than it does if you just pour it on the ground and light it?  And it’s far more destructive in the engine, too!”

The smoke from the burning towers was pitch black. This indicates an oxygen-starved fire, a blaze which could not have possibly accounted for the total failure of all sets of steel structural beams at once that would be required to create the collapse. At best, the fire would cause asymmetric damage according to which floors were compromised- but not the sudden, complete and abrupt collapse.

Mad as Hell:
“Too many “dancing bullet” theorists around who don’t apply the “straight-faced” test!  I’ve seen that stupid film that alleges some sort of missiles just as the planes were hitting the buildings.”

I agree completely. Why don’t you get the WH to release all the evidence and set the record straight? Their theory is impossible, according to the laws of physics.

Mad as Hell:
“Keep it up, folks. You just allow the Bushies to paint the Left as a bunch of conspiracy crackpots.”

Explain to me again why anyone should care about anything the ‘Bushies’ do or say? You say the theorists engage in ‘reductionism’, so I’ll say you yourself are an ‘anything goes rubber stamper’. You’re willing to accept any unproven and ‘strange’ outcome, therefore your opinion is invalid by default.

To Mad as Hell:
  You are yet another Coincidence Theorist who has obviously not looked at the evidence.  Building 7 was NOT hit by an airplane and yet it fell like a perfectly controlled demolition into it’s own footprint. 
  You overlook the videos showing that most of the jet fuel from the 757 that hit WTC 2 exploded outside the building just after impact. There was no “enclosed environment” there. 
  A physics professor from BYU, Dr Jones, says he has evidence that thermite was used because sulfur was found in melted metal from the WTC rubble site.  Pools of molten steel burned for weeks after the attacks.  Please at least look at the countering evidence before trying to discount it.
  The official story does not add up.
You expect me to believe that 19 Arab zealots with box cutters, lead by a madman in a cave were able to penetrate US airspace and go off coarse for over an hour with no attempt by NORAD to intercept them.  The Muslim zealots were able to execute phenomenal aeronautic turns at incredible speed and hit their targets with only a few months of flight school training.  To really top it all off I am to believe that one of the attackers threw his passport out the 757’s window, so it could be found intact and be used as evidence against him.  Too bad he didn’t throw the airplane’s black box out the window so we could really nail him.  The Black Boxes are still awol.
  I really cannot swallow the Official Conspiracy Theory.  Please do contact me when you can explain to me who placed put options on United Airlines the day before the attack and made several hundred million dollars on the transaction and then did not bother to collect the profit.

“To; MAD AS ISRAHELL
Please do explain the massive Blobs of fused concrete and steel in the video—please do. By the way,can’t you think for yourself instead of being a sheepie—Fool ! “

George, by calling me that you reveal yourself to be a racist.  It’s only in the Arab world that the myth of all the Jews being warned to leave the WTC exists.  But then again, they believe that the wretched, evil forgery “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” is genuine as well.

I’m perfectly capable of thinking for myself—that’s why I’m aware the buildings were NOT designed to take the impact of the planes that hit them, only the much smaller 707s. 

All you conspiracy nuts continually engage in reductionism: Ignoring inconvenient facts, like none of the 19 bomber being Iraqi or Iranian.  Were it planned by the WH, as you contend, they would ALL have been Iraqi with clear ties to Saddam, more so than Osama Bin Laden.

I have no problem with steel behaving in strange and unexpected ways when 100,000 tons of it falls a quarter of a mile straight down.  Under extreme pressures strange things happen.  At the bottom of glaciers, the ice is so compressed it acts like gelatin.  Coal under extreme pressure forms clear crystals called diamonds.  And steel has been strengthened and shaped for centuries by deformation, folding and re-deforming.  I’m no metallurgist but clearly you conspiracy buffs know even less about it than I do!

And the temp that jet fuel burns?  Does that take into account a pressurized environment of tons of jet fuel in an enclosed space? Didn’t it occur to all of you that gasoline burns far, FAR hotter when it’s compressed in your car’s engine cylinder than it does if you just pour it on the ground and light it?  And it’s far more destructive in the engine, too!

Too many “dancing bullet” theorists around who don’t apply the “straight-faced” test!  I’ve seen that stupid film that alleges some sort of missiles just as the planes were hitting the buildings.

Keep it up, folks. You just allow the Bushies to paint the Left as a bunch of conspiracy crackpots.

To; MAD AS ISRAHELL
Please do explain the massive Blobs of fused concrete and steel in the video—please do. By the way,can’t you think for yourself instead of being a sheepie—Fool !
http:// wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com/2006/09/911-can-you-keep-secret-i-hope-not.html

Mr. Scheer:

Thank you for your willingness to broach this touchy subject.

Given the research you’ve done, you may know of Utah’s own Brigham Young University Physics Professor Steve Jones, whose recent examination of the events of 9/11, using the best methods available as an academic scientist, lead to the conclusion that most of the important details of the official government account of what happened on 9/11 were physically impossible.
Professor Jones, a gentle conservative, teaching at the LDS Church-owned University, in the “Reddest” state in the country, was not looking for a way to disprove the government’s story.  Instead, years after the event, someone insisted he view the video showing WTC7 collapsing at 5:00 in the afternoon on 9/11.  The fact that the collapse of this building was not even mentioned in the 9/11 Commission Report made it even stranger.  And once he looked at that, as a scientist, he had to keep looking.
And once he looked, and studied, he could not stay quiet.  I understand that.  Still, he was relatively reserved, knowing his employer preferred him to stay away from the media.
Given the 5th anniversary of 9/11, Professor Jones was called upon to present his work in several venues.  His presentation is remarkably considerate and, again, gentle (see http://www.st911.org for both his paper and a presentation).  It is very effective.  He is no “conspiracy nut”. 
Therefore, his information is probably quite threatening to those with secrets.
On Thursday, September 7, Professor Steve Jones was abruptly put on paid leave by BYU for talking to the media about his work. 
Two days earlier, President Bush announced the release of the National Security Council’s newest report, “Strategy for Winning the War on Terror” (http://www.whitehouse.gov/nsc/nsct/2006/nsct2006.pdf ) in which “conspiracy theories” are called “force multipliers for our enemy” that corrupt populations and make terrorist recruiting more effective (see pgs 15 and 17 in the pdf file).
Though BYU’s complaint is Jones’ contact with media, the National Security Council’s sudden inclusion of “conspiracy theories” (the other conspiracy theory probably relating to the 2004 election fraud) as a tool of the terrorists has to raise concern for the sanctity of free speech and the search for truth.
The good news is that this treatment of Professor Jones has resulted in a letter from Dr. James Fetzer, Ph.D.,  Founder and Co-Chair of “Scholars for 9//11 Truth” which respectfully informs the President of Brigham Young University as to the integrity of Jones’ work by succinctly pointing out the evidence that Jones refutes.
I have included the letter below, and I strongly encourage you and your readers and commenters to review this well-organized and presented—and short—list of impossibilities.  More of Professor Jones and Dr. Fetzer’s work is available at http://www.st911.org.

And the next time readers find themselves in a run-around regarding the 911 Truth Movement, this letter is an excellent resource for clarifying the issues.

Ever listening and appreciative,
Barbara

**

To BYU President Cecil Samuelson:
On behalf of Scholars for 9/11 Truth
13 September 2006      
Cecil Samuelson
President, BYU
Provo, Utah

Dear President Samuelson,

As the founder and co-chair of Scholars for 9/11 Truth (st911.org), I want to write in support of Steven Jones, whom I invited to become my co-chair when I founded Scholars in December 2005. In the brief span of time since, the society has made a tremendous impact with the public relative to 9/11. We are dedicated to exposing falsehoods and revealing truths and have more than 300 members divided into four categories, including civil engineers, mechanical engineers, aeronautical engineers, pilots, and other experts.

We have discovered that virtually everything the government has told the American people about 9/11 is not only false but provably false. Learning from the efforts of those who have gone before, we have conducted our own research and have discovered that the official account is not only provably false but, in major respects, implies the violation of laws of physics and engineering that are inviolable and unchangeable. This means what we have been told is fine as long as you are willinng to believe impossible things:

The impact of the planes cannot have caused enough damage to bring the buildings down, since the buildings were designed to withstand them (as Frank DeMartini, the project manager, has observed), the planes that hit were very similar to those they were designed to withstand, and they continued to stand after those impacts with negligible effects.

The melting point of steel at 2,800*F is about 1,000*F higher than the maximum burning temperature of jet-fuel-based fires, which do not exceed 1,800*F under optimal conditions. UL estimated that the actual fires averaged only around 500*F, so the fires cannot have caused the steel to melt and melting steel did not bring the buildings down.

UL certified the steel in the buildings up to 2,000*F for at least three to four hours before it would even significantly weaken, where these fires burned too low and too briefly—about one hour in the South Tower and one and a half in the North—to have even caused the steel to weaken, much less melt.

If the steel had melted or weakened, the affected floors would have displayed completely different behavior, with some asymmetrical sagging and tilting, which would have been gradual and slow, not the complete, abrupt, and total demolition that was observed.

Heavy steel construction buildings like the Twin Towers, built with more than 100,000 tons of steel, are not even capable of “pancake collapse”, which could occur in “redundant” welded-steel buildings, such as the Twin Towers, only if every supporting column were removed simultaneously, as Charles Pegelow, a structural engineer, has pointed out to me.

The destruction of the South Tower in 10 seconds and of the North in 9 is even faster than free fall with only air resistance, which would have taken at least 12 seconds, which, as Judy Wood, a mechanical engineer, a civil engineer, and a materials science expert, has emphasized, an astounding result that would have been impossible without extremely powerful explosives.

The towers are exploding from the top, not collapsing to the ground, where the floors do not move, a phenomenon that Wood has likened to two gigantic trees turning to sawdust from the top down, which, like the pulverization of the concrete, the official account cannot possibly explain.

Massive pools of molten metal were found at the subbasement levels three, four, and five weeks later, an effect that could not have been produced by the plane-impact/jet-fuel-fire/pancake-collapse scenario, which, of course, implies that it was not produced by such a cause.   

WTC-7 came down in a classic controlled demolition at 5:20 PM/ET after Larry Silverstein suggested the best thing to do might be to “pull it”, displaying all the characteristics of classic controlled demolitions, including a complete, abrupt, and total collapse into its own footprint, where the floors are all falling at the same time, and so forth.

The hit point at the Pentagon was too small to accommodate a 100-ton airliner with a 125-foot wingspan and a tail that stands 44 feet above the ground; the kind and quantity of debris was wrong for a Boeing 757: no wings, no fuselage, no seats, no bodies, no luggage, and no tail! Which strongly suggests that the building was not hit by a Boeing 757.

The Pentagon’s own videotape does not show a Boeing 757 hitting the building, as even Bill O’Reilly admitted when it was shown on “The Factor”; but at 155 feet, the plane was more than twice as long as the 71-foot Pentagon is high and should have been present and visible; it was not, which reinforces the conclusion that the building was not hit by a Boeing 757.

The aerodynamics of flight would have made the official trajectory—flying at 530 mph barely above ground level—physically impossible; and if it had come it at an angle instead, that would have created a massive crater; but there is no crater and the government has no alternative explanation, which means that what we have been told cannot possibly be correct.

If Flight 93 had come down as advertised, then there would have been a debris field of about a city block in size, as a former Air Force Inspector General has told me; but in fact the debris is distributed over an area of around eight square miles, which would be explainable if the plane had been shot down in the air but not if it had crashed as claimed.

There are more, especially about the alleged hijackers, including that they were not competent to fly the planes; their names were not on any passenger manifest; they were not subject to any autopsy; several have turned up alive and well; the cell phone calls appear to have been impossible; on and on. The evidence may be found at st911.org. What this means is that the official account the government has presented cannot possibly be true.

Demonstrating that the official position is false is different than establishing what actually happened on 9/11, especially since the government continues to withhold much of the most important evidence from public inspection. (See our Petition at the top-left of our home page at st911.org.) That is why Steve’s work, which is dedicated to establishing what actually happened in Manhattan on 9/11, is extremely important but also extraordinarily difficult to conduct.

We believe that discovering how and why the victims of 9/11 lost their lives is the highest form of repect that they could possibly be paid. To ignore what we have found and casually accept the government’s account, when we know that it is indefensible, would be grossly disrespectful. As a former Marine Corps officer, I consider my obligations to my country to take precendence over support for an administration that has been lying to the American people, not only about the reasons for going to war but on other major issues.

I imagine you are aware that President Bush recently acknowledged in response to a question at a press conference that Saddam Hussein had “nothing to do” with the events of 9/11. You may also know that a Senate Intelligence Committee Report, releases just this past Friday, observed that there had been no links between Saddam and Osama. But do you also know that, two months ago, our FBI admitted it had “no hard evidence” relating Osama to the events of 9/11? If neither Saddam nor Osama was responsible for 9/11, who carried out the attacks?

This means that the government has been lying to us about 9/11 from scratch. I must tell you that I am not alone in following the evidence where it leads and drawing the tentative and fallible inference that some of our highest officials, including Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Condoleezza Rice, General Richard Myers, Paul Wolfowitz, Rudy Guliani, and Larry Silverstein have to have been involved. There is not only massive circumstantial evidence but even some that is direct.

Because of his understanding of BYU’s preferences, Steve has largely avoided public appearances, the vast majority of which have fallen to me. He is not used to being badgered by talk hosts or having his words “spun” to create the impression that he said something he did not say. This host would have been unable to abuse me. Because of differences in our character, background, and personality, I would have been far more aggressive in thwarting his behavior.

Which leads me to the crucial point. Steve Jones is a very fine, conservative, upright, and honorable man. He is a very gentle and kind human being, someone whom I greatly admire and would emulate if only I could. He certainly does not have a racist bone in his body. If you consider my list of principal suspects, observe just how easy it would be to pick and choose and make the case that I was biased against blacks, women, or Jews, when the reality is that, like Steve, I am biased against the killers and traitors who are subverting our way of life.

Respectfully,
James H. Fetzer, Ph.D.
Founder and Co-Chair
Scholars for 9/11 Truth
http://www.st911.org

“I could go on”

Please don’t!

In your long rant you’ve ignored the NOVA study on the collapse and several big, fat pieces of evidence.  But that’s OK, conspiracy theorists ALWAYS engage in reductionism, which is why their theories go NOWHERE.

Let’s recount one simple, UNIMPEACHABLE fact: The World Trade Center was designed to withstand the impact of the biggest plane of its time: The Boeing 707.  The two planes that struck the twin towers were the far larger 767s, far beyond the 707 which the architects planned for.

The failure of the structure was simple, despite your efforts to complicate it: The fuel from the planes heated the steel so much the carbon burned out, softening it (you can do this with a pocket knife and a propane torch).  The steel collapsed with all the weight above it and slammed into the floor below, which was subjected to far greater stress than it was designed for.  It’s collapse and acceleration added more weight as each floor succumbed to greater and greater weight.

It’s just not that hard to understand.  There was nobody on the grassy knoll, and the timing showed that Oswald HAD the time to make the shots, and the “magic, dancing bullet” never happened because with the CORRECT timing, it was a straight shot.

Why is is SO hard to believe that on the anniversary of Black September, a team with a mechanicanically simple, but devilishly subtle plan were able to destroy the World Trade Center?

And why is it equally hard to believe that the opportunistic Bush administration leaped at the opportunity to FINALLY have an excuse to go to war?  By September 12, Rumsfeld was talking about Iraq. 

Here’s a really big hole in the conspiracy theory: If Mad King George was behind it, why weren’t the 19 an amalgam of Iraqis and Iranians? Why would the White House use Saudis—from the land that LOVES the Bush Family?  It just doesn’t pass the straight-faced test!

What’s the worst is this: By refusing to accept that the Bush administration merely capitalized opportunistically on this tragedy and instead insisting on this hare-brained idea that the WH was behind it, you discredit the ENTIRE movement to get that bastard out of the White House, to get his “bitches” out of the House, and out of the Senate. “Oh, those anti-Bush guys—they think Bush planned to blow up the towers himself!”

You look like bizarre lunatics with a crack-pot theory—because that’s what you are!  There is SO much REAL evidence of Mad King George’s lies and mis-deeds (like the deliberate corruption of the reconstruction of Iraq documented in yesterday’s WP), that turning to this unsupported, unsubstantiated conspiracy theory just dissipates the vital energy needed to get Mad King George and his Merrie Fascists OUT of power to save our country.

Put your energies into better-substantiated crimes that we KNOW happened!  And cut the crap!

NOTE: Wasn’t sure if you received this or not…

Dear Mr Sheer, I sent this to Helen Thomas.  You may want to pursue it yourself as part of this effort. 

It occurred to me that you might want to ask Mr. Bush (1) why he called Al Qaeda “insignificant”, I believe that was the quote, and (2) exactly how
many active Al Qaeda members he knows there actually are. 

It seems to me there is much disinformation being distributed about, for example, Al Qaeda.  No one seems to have assessed what they are doing, how
many people there are, where they are located. This is simple stuff, raw intelligence stuff. Hm, I wonder why.  You may want to look into this.  Is
it possible they are so small, comparatively so weak, that they couldn’t attack us if they really wanted to?

I ask this because it is good politics to make them so mysterious that we can’t assess them, so that people can be AFRAID, really AFRAID of them all the time? After all, they’re connected to ... um, Saddam and Iraq ... Iran ... maybe Pakistan ... the Taliban in Afghanistan ... and under your bed. Perhaps Mr. Bush has de-emphasized the threat from Al Qaeda because he knows there aren’t that many of them?  Just what does he and the Vice
President know about them - a definitive answer with facts and figures might be in order.

One assessment apparently shows them as a very small fragmented minority, which got lucky, remember, only because the cabin doors of the airliners weren’t secured and pilots couldn’t carry guns. I repeat this, One assessment shows them as a very small fragmented minority, which got lucky, remember, only because the cabin doors of the airliners weren’t secured and pilots couldn’t carry guns. Had the doors been secured 9/11 probably couldn’t have happened.

Now, whether or not that’s true, it might be nice to have some facts. Otherwise, as I’m fond of saying, there is no such thing as a “global war
on terrorism”; it’s like a “war on laziness”, or a “war onsuicide bombers”, so vague it distorts the picture and is designed only to make you afraid.
 
Being afraid is not what intelligence gathering is about; precisely the reverse, so you can take the proper action.  And Bush may not want to take
that action.  After all, Pakistan has already shown us that’s a real possibility, isn’t it?

Dear Mr Sheer, I sent this to Helen Thomas.  You may want to pursue it yourself as part of this effort. 

It occurred to me that you might want to ask Mr. Bush (1) why he called Al Qaeda “insignificant”, I believe that was the quote, and (2) exactly how
many active Al Qaeda members he knows there actually are. 

It seems to me there is much disinformation being distributed about, for example, Al Qaeda.  No one seems to have assessed what they are doing, how
many people there are, where they are located. This is simple stuff, raw intelligence stuff. Hm, I wonder why.  You may want to look into this.  Is
it possible they are so small, comparatively so weak, that they couldn’t attack us if they really wanted to?

I ask this because it is good politics to make them so mysterious that we can’t assess them, so that people can be AFRAID, really AFRAID of them all the time? After all, they’re connected to ... um, Saddam and Iraq ... Iran ... maybe Pakistan ... the Taliban in Afghanistan ... and under your bed. Perhaps Mr. Bush has de-emphasized the threat from Al Qaeda because he knows there aren’t that many of them?  Just what does he and the Vice
President know about them - a definitive answer with facts and figures might be in order.

One assessment apparently shows them as a very small fragmented minority, which got lucky, remember, only because the cabin doors of the airliners weren’t secured and pilots couldn’t carry guns. I repeat this, One assessment shows them as a very small fragmented minority, which got lucky, remember, only because the cabin doors of the airliners weren’t secured and pilots couldn’t carry guns. Had the doors been secured 9/11 probably couldn’t have happened.

Now, whether or not that’s true, it might be nice to have some facts. Otherwise, as I’m fond of saying, there is no such thing as a “global war
on terrorism”; it’s like a “war on laziness”, or a “war onsuicide bombers”, so vague it distorts the picture and is designed only to make you afraid.
 
Being afraid is not what intelligence gathering is about; precisely the reverse, so you can take the proper action.  And Bush may not want to take
that action.  After all, Pakistan has already shown us that’s a real possibility, isn’t it?

At the risk of sounding parental, would you guys arguing Christianity and the Constitution please take your debate to Sam Harris’ comments page?  This blog is for discussion of Mr. Scheer’s article on 9/11.  Thank you.

That said, let me begin by providing an important preface:

The phrase “conspiracy theory” is comprised of two words: “conspiracy,” which is the planning and/or execution of an illegal act by three or more persons, and “theory,” which is a belief supported by evidence.

Given this, the government’s “official story” is no less a “conspiracy theory” than any alternative theory of 9/11.  The government posits a “conspiracy” by OBL and Al Qaeda to hijack and crash commercial airliners into buildings in NYC and DC.  The “evidence” in support of their “theory” is The 9/11 Commission Report.

However, we know that the Report is flawed - even compromised - in numerous ways.  First, there were serious conflicts of interest among the Commissioners, including some who had financial and/or other direct interests in the two airlines involved.  The attorney for the Commission was also involved in the legal representation of three Arab nationals accused of providing funds for terrorist action.  And most critically, the Executive Director of the Commission - the one who “guided” the Commission and determined which lines of evidence and which leads to follow - was Philip Zelikow, who was not only a close personal friend of Condoleezza Rice (they even wrote a book together), but was also a member of the Bush-Cheney transition team, and a member of a think tank that included such nice neocons as Rice, Wolfowitz, Perle and Cheney.

Then there are the factual errors.  For example, in order for their “pancake theory” to work (i.e., that each floor simply “pancaked” onto the next, causing the collapse), they not only omitted reference to the 47 internal vertical steel columns that held the floors up, but they even left them out of the schematic drawing of the building!  By doing so, they could explain why the buildings fell at “free fall” speed (the speed that an object thrown from the top of the building would have fallen with no resistance).

Yet their theory doesn’t work even if the 47 internal columns did NOT exist.  Because even had the floors “pancaked,” there would have been a minor “stutter” effect as each floor hit the next, which would have incresased the speed of the total collapse.  Yet there was no such “stutter”; indeed, the towers not only collapsed at free fall speed - which is scientifically impossible unless the interior core has already been “removed” (e.g., with explosives) - but 95% of the concrete was “pulverized” BEFORE it hit the ground.

This is but one factual error in the Report.

And now we have the word of the two Co-Chairmen of the Commission, in their own book, that the Report was compromised (further) by the “non-cooperation, obfuscation and outright lies” of the Bush administration and agencies and members thereof.

Thus, the sole “supporting evidence” for the government’s “conspiracy theory” is quickly falling apart.  This alone is reason to at very least look into alternative theories of the event.  Let me just provide a few fun (verifiable) facts for you:

-The names of the alleged 19 hijackers did not appear on the passenger manifests of any of the planes.  These manifests were published in many mainstream news publications within 36-48 hours of the event, and thus too quickly for anyone to have doctored them.  [N.B. And why WOULD the government doctor then, since it would have gone a long way to proving their theory?]

As an aside, doesn’t it strike you as odd that on 9/11, the government did not even know for certain “who did it,” and yet, less than 48 hours later, they had the photographs of all 19 “hijackers?”

-As Paloma points out, the FBI recently took OBL off its “Most Wanted” list.  When asked why, an FBI spokesperson said, and I quote, “Because we have no solid evidence connecting Osama bin Laden to the events of 9/11.”  Put THAT in your conspiracy pipe and smoke it.

-According to the “official story,” the alleged 19 hijackers were “radical Islamics.”  Yet all during the time they were taking flying lessons in Florida, they were drinking, smoking, coking and womanizing - all of which are absolutely forbidden under Sharia law.  Note also that the two flying schools at which Atta and some of his cronies were taking lessons just happened to be in the same area as a housing complex built to house the families of…CIA members.  And at least three of the alleged hijackers were rooming with families or individuals in this complex.  (For more on this, Google “Mohammed Atta’s Flying Circus” or “Venice Flying Circus”.)  Oh, by the way: somehow, the FBI showed up to confiscate all the files from both flying schools only days after 9/11 - BEFORE the government had found out about the flying lessons.

-WTC 7 was unquestionably brought down by a controlled demolition.  Not only does the NIST report NOT deny this (it simply gives no reason), but WTC owner Larry Silverstein clearly stated it.  As someone pointed out, it takes days, sometimes weeks to properly plan a controlled demolition.  It cannot be done in hours, and especially not when there are active fires in the building.  This means, ergo, that the explosives were planted at least weeks, and possibly months, prior to 9/11.  Not only does this automatically presuppose that 9/11 was a “stage event,” but it raises the question: Why demolish WTC 7 at all?

Well, let’s start with the fact that, in addition to Rudy Giuliani’s infamous “bunker,” the WTC housed, among others, the ATF, the CIA, the Secret Service, the IRS (including, by the way, most of the government’s Enron files…) and other government and quasi-government agencies.  It also had an underground tunnel that led to vaults containing over $650 million in gold.  I kid you not.  This was reported by the mainstream media.

Talk about destruction of evidence!

-As others have noted, the Pentagon has refused to release the closed circuit footage from over a dozen cameras it had on site, and in less than an hour after the “crash,” the FBI showed up to confiscate the videotapes from cameras at a gas station, a hotel and two other locations.

I could go on and on.  But I will give just one more.  On 9/11/06 (the 5th anniversary), CNN.com showed the complete CNN coverage of 9/11/01 “as it happened”; i.e., they played the uninterrupted footage of 9/11/01 in real time.  In the very first footage of the Pentagon from directly across the road from the impact site, you can clearly see four things: (i) although the impact hole is almost at ground level, not a single light pole (and there are several) between the road and the building is damaged, (ii) the whole - indeed, the entire impact zone - is not nearly large enough for a 757, (iii) despite the impact hole being a ground level, the lawn in front of the building is COMPLETELY undamaged: no smoke or dust, no burn marks from the engines, no plane debris AT ALL, and (iv) despite a 757 having a wingspan of 155’ and a tail that is 44’ tell, and despite the amount of fuel that would have exploded had a 757 hit the building, windows on the third floor of the building were intact (even the new reinforced windows would have broken at the impact of multi-ton jet), and items in rooms directly adjacent to the impact and collapse site were untouched by fire or smoke.

One might ask: Well, if all of that is true, why didn’t we see it on 9/11?  The answer to that is my closing statement.

There is a difference between “seeing” something and “observing” it.  On 9/11, we all “saw” the events, but did not “observe” them, because we were all “traumatized” “in the moment,” and di not have the wherewithal to truly OBSERVE what we were seeing.  Like the magician who uses misdirection to “make you” look where he wants you to (instead of where the “secret” is), 9/11 was largely “smoke (literally) and mirrors” - few of us (including myself) could see the events from an “objective” viewpoint because the very nature of the events prevented it.

However, now that time has passed and it is possible to truly OBSERVE the events with a more critical, objective eye - and as the evidence supporting the government’s “conspiracy theory” falls apart, while the evidence supporting “alternative theories” grows - I hope that those “on the fence” will consider all this and “take a second look.”  As someone here said: what are you going to believe: what your eyes show you, or what your government tells you?

Peace.

P.S.  Re reading, in addition to “Crossing the Rubicon,” I highly suggest “The Terror Timeline” by Paul Thompson, and “The New Pearl Harbor” and “The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions,” both by David Ray Griffin, perhaps the most respected, and thorough, 9/11 researcher in the world.

Hondo claims that there is no such thing as “Separation of Church and State.”  The problem with people like him is that they search the Constitution with a search engine looking for that literal phrase instead of actually reading the Constitution with their eyes, and processing it with their organic brains.  Article six, paragraph three states: “There shall be no religious test as a prerequisite for public office, or Government appointment.”  Amendment one states: “Congress shall make no law partial to, or against, one religion over any other.”  That is all the Constitution says about the separation of Church and State, and that is all it should.

Sorry folks but America is very much dumb zoolot—Christians and like fools controlled by Zealots.—In God we Trust. Sad part is ,our money is only world’s play money,about to become worthless.
  I wish people would not excuse Bush because he is a sap and a village idiot. Again,recall that he wanted and planned to send a b52 bomber dressed as a UN plane and send it over Iraq.Excuse for UK/USA to start a war. Marvin Bush—does that ring a bell ?
Problem with Americans—Juice machined. Get my drift ?

I’m always amazed when Hondo says something I agree with—points 2 and 3 (if your remove all the stupid, nasty insults) I actually agree with.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day!

I do NOT believe Mad King George was behind 9/11. I don’t think his administration is competent to conceive or organize such an act and certainly not competent to keep it secret.  It’s just not their style—The Tonkin Gulf ruse by LBJ was a far simpler thing to pull off.  It’s also just not their style—and it most certainly IS Bin Laden’s.

But on point 1 Hondo is, as usual, so far off the wall as to be beyond the pale.  I suggest he research the fathers of the Bill of Rights, Madison and Jefferson.  Jefferson wanted on his gravestone the three achievements he was proudest of: 1) Establishing the Univ. of Va. 2) The Declaration of Independence, and 3) Getting the Church OUT of government of the Commonwealth of Virginia.  That directly contradicts his assertion.  There are so many other ways that our nation has set itself up to prevent Hondo et al from shoving his personal religion down the throats of the rest of us.

But, the Big Lie that the far right uses is that we were founded as a “Christian” nation.  Sorry. WRONG!  The fathers had had ENOUGH of “Christian” nations, thank you very much!  They wanted a secular one.

>Hondo
>The liberal response to my comments don’t >surprise me in the least. This is typical liberal >reaction to conservative truth. Although most of >your rantings were incoherent, I think I detected >some common themes.
And you reaction is in no way original.  You regurgitate the rhetoric any random neo-con; you speak in bumber sticker level of dialoge.  You offer no original thoughts and have no comprehension of what’s going on.

>1. Our Constitution provides for a complete >separation of church and state——Wrong! You’re >confusing our Constitution with the constitution >of the old Soviet Union! Take a look at the >website for the Library of Congress. It has an >online exhibit called “Religion and the Founding >of the American Republic.” That site clearly >shows that the liberal (secular progressive) >definition of separation of church and state is >bogus.
No, you’re wrong.  I haven’t the slightest clue about anything relating to a Soviet consititution.  I visited the website and it’s ideal for people like you.  It cited numerous times how the founding fathers were religious and how there’s religion ingrained in this or influences that; but it never quotes anything from the Constitution to show that the document recognize one religion over another, or that it recognizes being religious over being atheist.  So what exactly is your point?  I already confessed that every founding father was religious.

>2. Your beliefs about the cause of 9/11 are long >on hysteria and short on facts. Not one of you >liberal wing nuts has shown one single, provable >fact that shows that the Bush administration blew >up those towers.
Without thinking too much about it I’ll admit to there being no facts.  Just as everyone up until last year had no facts on the government being capable of killing Americans to insight support for an othewise unwanted war when that document was declassified to show that a member of the administration suggested that the gov. stage an attack on us to rally Americans against a foreign country in order to go to war.

Facts are emerging every year, Hondo.  Congress released that report that proved there was never a connection between Iraq and Osama, nor any WMDs.  Before that report was released it was just speculation.  As time goes on more of the truth will be revealed and all of us leftwing lunatics will be vindicated.

All we have now are very simple questions that are worthy of answers.  The fact that the gov. won’t (not can’t, but won’t) answer them is why we draw our on conclusions.  Are you really this stupid?

>3. G Anderson says there are no differences >between liberals and conservatives. What color is >the sky on your planet? Of course there are >differences—major differences. If there weren’t >any differences, we would all agree!
>Let’s get back to the topic of the Scheer >article, which is that Bush was behind 9/11. Show >me one single fact that has been confirmed and >proven by somebody other than a left wing >lunatic, and then we can talk. Otherwise, >tin-foil your windows, stay indoors, and leave >the rest of us alone.
Yeah, they don’t agree on everything: they have very different ideas on how to make themselves richer.  If you read what was actually written by the other commentators and were actually capable of comprehending the comments, then you’d understand that what was being said is that this country is being ran by an oligarchy; rather two parties that act as one when it comes to their own best interests.

We need to completely remove from office every elected official in the Legislative and Executive branchs.  If they really acted on the behalf of “what’s best for the country,” then we’d have a balanced budget, more college graduates, an independence on foreign oil, doing our part to reverse global warming, etc.  No, we go to war with Iraq because of the Wolfowitz doctrine.  Not because it makes sense for our future, or that the American people wanted it, but because there’s a group of guys who think alike and they’re all in charge.

Fuck you Hondo and everyone like you.  See my previous emails for suggestions on where you should dwell.

The liberal response to my comments don’t surprise me in the least. This is typical liberal reaction to conservative truth. Although most of your rantings were incoherent, I think I detected some common themes.
1. Our Constitution provides for a complete separation of church and state——Wrong! You’re confusing our Constitution with the constitution of the old Soviet Union! Take a look at the website for the Library of Congress. It has an online exhibit called “Religion and the Founding of the American Republic.” That site clearly shows that the liberal (secular progressive) definition of separation of church and state is bogus.
2. Your beliefs about the cause of 9/11 are long on hysteria and short on facts. Not one of you liberal wing nuts has shown one single, provable fact that shows that the Bush administration blew up those towers.
3. G Anderson says there are no differences between liberals and conservatives. What color is the sky on your planet? Of course there are differences—major differences. If there weren’t any differences, we would all agree!
Let’s get back to the topic of the Scheer article, which is that Bush was behind 9/11. Show me one single fact that has been confirmed and proven by somebody other than a left wing lunatic, and then we can talk. Otherwise, tin-foil your windows, stay indoors, and leave the rest of us alone.

I just read a recent article from Eric Morgalis. He is a very informed person on matters in the middle-east. What made me concerned was his statement that 36% of Americans believe that Washington was behand the 911 affair and/but no- prove of it.  I sent him a e-mail—what more prove do you need eric ?—no reply yet !
To:Marriera,my dear lady,how you have forgotten. Recall the UK memo,that Bush suggested to Blair,that a USA 52 bomber be dressed up as a UN one and allow Saddam to fire-upon it and that would give UK/USA reason to invade Iraq.
I suggest,anyone that does not think that Bush is an evil man and not capable of being part of mass murder—-just go back to his younger years—-the crackersNfrogs issue, the black girl raped and found dead after pressing charges.
Man needs locking up.

Give me liberty or give me death.

Re: Any Hondo comment.

As red blooded Christian American, every time I read a Hondo post I am ashamed and embarrassed to be American.

This whole liberal vs Conservative, Democrat vs republican is a joke.  There is very little difference but he would have you believe they are night and day.  If you examine most politicians, they all flip flop on every issue depending what will give them the most votes.  (that is why many republicans are now not backing bush, his coat tails are not what they used to be) Not a lot of integrity.

As a christian I would rather go to hell with good people than heaven with people like Hondo.

He would sell is mother if it helped him and is twisted view of the world. 

Oy!

I read your article and find it incredious that you still think that Bush was not involved in
9-11.  OK, I’ll bite, but if he wasn’t involved in 9-11 directly, he knows who was.

This Day In History: September 16, 1982:
Connecting the Dots to 9/11

There’s another significant anniversary this week, but not one that’s attracted the sort of attention the 11 September commemorations have.
On the morning of Saturday, September 18th, 1982, reporters entering the Palestinian refugee camps of Sabra and Shatila near Beirut, Lebanon, were met with a ghastly sight. Piles of bodies littered the dusty streets of the camps, mass graves had been hastily constructed and buildings had been bulldozed over corpses. The slaughtered were old men, women, and children. A massacre had taken place here. The estimated death toll were in thousands.
What had happened here? What could have provoked this type of inhuman slaughter? Who did this?
These were the questions that punctuated the silence of the morning after the killing stopped. These questions are still asked today, more than two decades after the events had transpired.
To try to answer these question, lets read history again:
On 6 June 1982, the Israeli army invaded Lebanon in what it described as ‘retaliation’ for the attempted assassination of Israeli Ambassador Argov in London on 4 June. The invasion, soon dubbed “Operation Peace for Galilee,” progressed rapidly. By 18 June 1982, Israel had surrounded the Palestine Liberation Organization’s (PLO) armed forces in the western part of the Lebanese capital. A cease-fire, mediated by United States Envoy Philip Habib, resulted in the PLO evacuation of Beirut on 1 September 1982.
On 11 September 1982, Israeli Defence Minister Ariel Sharon, the architect of the invasion, announced that “2,000 terrorists” had remained inside the Palestinian refugee camps around Beirut. On Wednesday 15 September, the day after the assassination of Israeli-allied Phalangist militia leader and Lebanese President-elect Bashir Gemayel, the Israeli army occupied West Beirut, “encircling and sealing” the camps of Sabra and Shatila, which were inhabited by Lebanese and Palestinian civilians. Israel justified its move into West Beirut by a need to maintain order and stability after Gemayel’s assassination. However, several days later, Ariel Sharon told the Knesset, Israel’s parliament: “Our entry into West Beirut was in order to make war against the infrastructure left by the terrorists”.
The Israeli army then disarmed, as far as they were able, anti-Israeli militias in West Beirut, while leaving the Christian Phalangist militias in East Beirut fully armed. By mid-day on 15 September 1982, the refugee camps were entirely surrounded by Israeli tanks and soldiers, who installed checkpoints at strategic locations and crossroads around the camps in order to monitor the entry or exit of any person. During the late afternoon and evening of that day, the camps were shelled.
Around mid-day on Thursday 16 September 1982, a unit of approximately 150 Israeli-allied-armed Phalangists (or that’s what Israel claim) entered the first camp. For the next 40 hours members of the Phalangist militia raped, killed, and injured a large number of unarmed civilians, mostly children, women and elderly people inside the encircled and sealed camps. The estimate of victims varies between 700 (the official Israeli figure) to 3,500. The victims and survivors of the massacres have never been deemed entitled to a formal investigation of the tragedy, since Israel’s Kahan Commission did not have a judicial mandate and was not backed up by legal force.
This is considered the bloodiest single massacre by Israeli Terrorist Army and it’s claimed allies, but one can think that it will not be last. especially after what we saw in last Israeli war on Lebanon.
If Americans approached the 11 September anniversary with trepidation, many residents of Shatila camp, and its more run-down neighbor Sabra, have been dreading the milestone on Saturday which marks 24 years of pain and the futile search for justice.
For Palestinians, it will certainly be a far cry from the ceremonies in New York and Washington, where American leaders told the world that its pre-eminent military power was going to ensure that justice for the victims would triumph over evil whatever the cost.
The Palestinian survivors of the 1982 massacres will probably gather for speeches at the place where their loved-ones were buried en masse - a dusty vacant lot marked by a pathetic temporary monument of breezeblocks.
But there will be no internationally-observed minute’s silence for the innocent victims of Sabra and Shatila, or global news coverage about the survivors and their miserable existence at the scene of this evil crime.
I am a firm believer that 9/11 was a staged inside operation, but for the sake of the benefit of the doubt, if we accept that this was done by “Islamic Terrorists”, then that it was carried on in September, few days apart from 9/11, must have been intended to remind the world that crimes committed by Israel with the U.S. full support; arms and money must be avenged in some way. Believe me: Muslims who hate the U.S. do not do that because they hate American freedom and democracy or because they are evil by nature, as our pathetic serial liar Bush keeps misleading Americans in believing. It is all a crude way of settling accounts and revenge based on the concept of a tit for a tat!

sam and Fred and anyone else who is concerned with the events of 9/11; the radio interview with Popular Mechanics is here http://www.scholarsfor911truth.org/
along with lots of other independent reports on what happened on that terrible day. We need an objective, accounting of 9/11. We also need for the government to release the evidence it is witholding from the public. Why are the keeping it, souvenirs?

“I am a 46 year old Christian Conservative from the Heartland who is deeply concerned about the direction of this great country of ours. We are doomed unless we turn back to God, and back to the guiding principles our Founding Fathers built this country on.” - Hondo

“In simple terms, liberalism is a disease, a cancer, of the soul. It renders the poor victim completely unable to tell the difference between fact and fiction, right and wrong, good and evil, wisdom and foolishness, or reality and delusion. All of the comments on this post are proof positive of everything I have written.” - Hondo

“Simple terms”, of course!Don’t use your brain.“Proof positve”, you’ve been told so believe.Thank Goddddd!Thank you Jesusss!(Thank you Jimmy Swaggart!)We have proof positive!Moses parted the sea, virgin birth, life after death and an entire plane vanished into the walls of the Pentagon.

There would appear to be foxes in the hen house.This is not a casual poster.Don’t bicker with this one, there will be no give and take.No reason will be forthcoming.“Simply” trying to draw you out.The plants are thorough, connected and simple.If you’re posting, smile you’re on candid camera.I know, you already knew that.

Read: http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/081606_burning_bridge.shtml

Hondo:
I read your posts.  The only thing they prove is that you are a 3rd rate thinker incapable of presenting a rational debate.  You are a marvelous propagandist though, I will have to admit.

I have terrible news for you: You don’t get to define what it is Liberals want for America. Citing a single Secular Humanist website is not valid.

You know, I’ve been a liberal most of my life, but I never even HEARD the term “Secular Humanist” until Jerry Falwell started tossing it around about 25 years ago.  I think I’ve been pretty well educated, college, grad school, and kept up with the news all my life, too, but still, until Jerry tossed it out, I never heard of it.

Of course, your whole thesis is trashed by a few words: The Civil Rights Movement. In case you didn’t notice, the Civil Rights Movement was primarily two things: 1) Liberal 2) Christian.  Churches and synogogues were in the vanguard of the Civil Rights Movement, and the movement for INTEGRATION!  (The Nation of Islam—Elijah Muhammed’s religious group advocated seperation of the races—this is why they were behind the murder of Malcolm X—he left that).  The Viet Nam Anti-War movement was both 1) Liberal and 2) Christian.  Many, MANY churches and religious leaders were extremely active in trying to get us out of Viet Nam.

Even amongst the fundamentalist Christians (and I assume you are one), the MOST right-wing of all Christians, a modest 27-28% still vote Democratic—and other Christians, being more mainstream vote Democratic far more.

I LOVED your analysis of the poor. How you can POSSIBLY see yourself as “Christian” when you directly contradict and discount Jesus’s own words.  Of course, if Jesus was around today, you’d want to hang him as a Liberal, a commie, and a nihilist.  Of course, it’s only “Christians” like you, Ralph Reed, Jerry Falwell, and George Bush who believe Jesus is more concerned with how much your stock portfolio grows and who you sleep with, and doesn’t give a rat’s ass about the poor, or the inequities and injustices in this world.

When Reagan came to power one of the saddest things that happened was very quickly the number of homeless on the streets of Washington, DC EXPLODED!  That was the most obvious consequence of his policies.  It is one of the saddest features of Mad King George’s reign that over 40 million Americans cannot afford health insurance at all, and millions more are under-insured.

According to Hondo, it’s their own fault they cannot afford health insurance.  I’ll never understand how giving vast amounts of our tax dollars to corporations and the wealthiest Americans is better than using them, instead, to ensure our children are healthy and well-schooled.

But my pal Hondo has his head in the sand, listening only to people who agree with him, engaging in reductionism in his arguments.

As I said: A third-rate thinker.

Hondo, I do not concur with anything you’ve stated.  You are the one who living in delusion.  I have no interest to visit your websites and read your propaganda, for I fear that it will be more of the crap you posted here.

Don’t make the mistake that I’m defending any politician when I say that being liberal is a good thing.  I have nothing but contempt for politicians, except in rare occurances.  I am an atheist and wish that everyone else was too.  It is religion that has held back the evolution of humans by denouncing science as heresy and ignoring the archaic, antiquated principles of the holy books.

You have no place in an evolving society.  You belong on your own little island where you can feel like you’re at the center of the universe, just as the Christians of the not too distant past thought.

If what you say is true, that the political liberals are secular, then that’s a good thing.  And the fact that you can’t recognize that the separation of church and state is a good thing, that it’s in your very own best interests signifies that you haven’t the slightest understanding of the Constitution or the nation that its authors created.

You stated that “modern-day liberal, or secular progressive is a person who is 100% opposed to… the beliefs of our Founding Fathers.”  That’s a misleading statement.  It’s true that they were religious, but it’s also true that religion was deliberately omitted from the Constitution.  And unlike your worthless bible, you never hear of constradictions within the Constitution such as “freedom of religion” written in one place while “Christianity is the only true religion” written elsewhere.  That doesn’t happen.

I recommend “End of Faith” by Sam Harris.  He addresses the problems that religion brings to the table in a way that’s not been done before.  A good read.

Donavon—You’re dictionary definition of the word “liberal” was cute, but it has nothing to do with the reality of modern day politics. The modern-day liberal, or secular progressive (the terms are interchangable) is a person who is 100% opposed to the teachings of Christianity, the foundational principles of the American republic, and the beliefs of our Founding Fathers. I have written extensively on modern day liberalism; go to the following two links to see:
http://christianconservatives.blogspot.com/2006/08/difference-between-cats-and-dogs.html

http://christianconservatives.blogspot.com/2006/08/difference-between-cats-and-dogs_19.html

In simple terms, liberalism is a disease, a cancer, of the soul. It renders the poor victim completely unable to tell the difference between fact and fiction, right and wrong, good and evil, wisdom and foolishness, or reality and delusion. All of the comments on this post are proof positive of everything I have written.

When will all the hundreds people who reported seeing Flight 77 fly over the White House and the Capitol Building realize that what they saw was NOT Flght 77?
FAA radar records prove that Flight 77 never
entered the restricted P-56 airspace over Washington DC, but this four engine jet did
and was photographed by two news cameras and a private citizen. One BBC video of it is on You Tube.
This fifth aircraft has never been identified and is not even mentioned in the “comprehensive”
9/11 Commission Report.
This “mystery jet”  cover-up is the heart of the matter because the existence of this aircraft is beyond dispute.

The Boys at Popular Mechaics were interviewed on radio.  Question to them, why did WTC 7 fall like a planned demolation ? Answer, 1/3 of the base was taken out by the falling debre. Question, how come no photos for public and how do you know. Answer, top secret photos from Government and we promised not to publish.
Unbelievable stupid dunces. If a chunk of a base of a bldg is taken,it would fall to it’s side. Where did P.M.‘s pick these jerks? Homeland security cousin !
Sorry folks, I did not save this 15 minute interview. Can someone please repeat it for the readers. CLASSIC Bullsh!T !

The Patriot Act, all the changes it swept over us. “With no real debate, it was passed into law on 25 October 2001, a mere 45 days after 911,” the legend goes. The size of a phone book, who got to read it before it was introduced, voted on? Who in Congress could have, when most—certainly Democrats, the minority party, which means out-of-the-loop as things go in recent years—were given so little time? Who would dare debate it, public opinion being framed as it was at every possible moment?

How innocent we were, sheep, glomming it all down.

Moreover, who wrote the thing—and most important of all—when? A tome of such sweeping depth, importance, power and, as we’ve experienced, sinister possibilities, could not have been drafted in such a sort period; not without an ideology that considered its potential with great care.

And so I ask— How is this not—truly—plotting to subvert the Constitution? The Act wasn’t created in response to 911, to crisis. It couldn’t have been. Regardless of any possible suggestion that there was any connection or culpability for the tragic events of 911—and a third of Americans are now thinking there was—was someone not “awaiting the hour” (as if to strike) to set this act into law, into all its subsequent motions, by merely having this work in process? At the ready?

The justification for the extremes of the Patriot Act were framed as if we were in time of war. Yet Congress declared no war. To this day, Congress has declared no war. Powers were granted, true; in effect Congress rolled over, abdicating its responsibilities under the Constitution, becoming the mere rubber stamp of this White House. And the invasion it did agree to fund had no connection to the events of 911.

And today, once more, abuse of power, corroborated with the help of the media:
Wash. Post article on congressional debate over wiretapping, detention ignored approval of bipartisan Feinstein bill (link)

more:wiki</li><li>Keeping us from thinking: Media Blackout as Bush Signs Parts of Patiot Act II
SUMMARIES AND ANALYSIS
the patriot_act
  Summary of the USA PATRIOT Act and Other Government Acts
Text of the USA PATRIOT Act
ACLU Fact Sheet on Surveillance under the USA PATRIOT Act
ACLU Fact Sheet on Section 215: How the Patriot Act Threatens Your Personal Records
ACLU Fact Sheet on “PATRIOT II”
How “PATRIOT Act II,” The Domestic Security Enhancement Act, Would Further Erode the Basic Checks on Government Power
Section-by-Section Analysis of “PATRIOT II”
Additional Analyses of How PATRIOT Powers Threaten Liberty and Privacy

More than 200 communities have passed resolutions against the Patriot Act.
Is YOURS one of them? Click here to find out.

They’re watching you: Patriot Act Compliance, the ad reads. Powerful online tools to ensure Patriot Act Compliance. This reaches out to every one of us.

*********

“Listen, Moirai (Fates) ... hear our prayers ... send us rose-bloomed Eunomia (Good Order in civic government) and her bright-throned sisters Dike (Justice) and garland-wearing Eirana (Peace), and make this city forget its heavy-hearted misfortunes.” - Greek Lyric V Anonymous Fragments 1018 (from Stobaeus, Anthology

Scheer is right… There are a few simple questions that lead to too many more: First: WTC Building 7. The collapse of 7 makes no sense. Small fires, widely distributed in a huge 50 story building 9 hours after the planes crashed, and 8 hours after WTC 1&2 came down defies explanation. If you can explain it… please do. Second: The Money. There is extensive documentation of market shorting in the week prior to 9/11. United and American Airlines were particularly targeted. some of the short options have never been cashed in. Explain please. Third: Air Force 1. No one has ever explained the whirlwind tour of obscure locations that GWB took in the hours after the plane crashes. What was he doing and why? I’m no nut job, and I don’t wear a collander for a hat… but I just want to know.

Webster’s Unabridged Dictionary says…

liberal: 1. favorable to progress or reform, as in political or religious affairs.  2. noting or pertaining to a political party advocating measures of pregressive political reform.  3. or,pertainign to, based on, or advocating liberalism.  4. favorable to or in accord with concepts of maximum individual freedom possible, especially as guaranteed by law and secured by governmental protection of civil liberties.  5. favoring or premitting freedom of action, espoecially with respect to matters of personal belief or expression.  6. of or pertaining to respresentational forms of government rather than aristocracies and monarchies.  7. free from prejudice or bigotry; tolerant.  8. open-minded or tolerant, especially free of or not bound by traditional or conventional ideas, values, etc.  9. characterized by generosity and willingness to give in large amounts.  10. given freely or abundantly; generous.  11. not strict or rigorous; free.  12. of, peraining to, or based on the liberal arts.  13. of, pertaining to, or befitting a freeman.  14. a person of liberal princples or views, especially in politics or religion.

Looks like being called liberal is a fine complement.  Hopefully there are more liberals than non-liberals; how would we ever evolve?

In your sidebar, you neglect to list Justin Raimondo’s “Terror Enigma: 9/11 And the Israeli Connection”.

Justin Raimondo is editor of antiwar.com.

Here is the URL for the book at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Terror-Enigma-11-Israeli-Connection/dp/0595296823/sr=8-1/qid=1158327055/ref=sr_1_1/104-9988710-6483131?ie=UTF8&s=books

Comment #23376 by Hondo on 9/14 at 4:29 pm
“There have been three separate investigations of that horrible terrorist attack and all three investigations say the same thing: it was an act of war committed by Islamofacists.”

Hondo,

The problem with the three investigations that we’ve had so far is that they all started with the conclusion you mentioned above and worked backwards to get evidence supporting that.  I just want to see an independent investigation follow the evidence wherever it goes.  For example, there is lots of evidence that points in the direction of Pakistan’s intelligence agency which could be important.  The official 9/11 Commission report actually had the nerve to say that the question of the source of the terrorists’ funding was irrelevant.  That question could not be more relevant.

What I want to know is,  after so long,  why haven’t we had replays of audio from the likes of flight decks,  air traffic control centres,  et cetera?  Usually these sorts of things are analysed to the enth degree by the media and public in general and serve to warn/inform us of the tragedy.  But this time?!  NFW!  We have not had anything other than a few phone calls.  So,  what about the rest of these sound grabs?

In any sporting match these days slow motion is used to highlight all aspects of a game,  but why,  after the buildings were hit,  didn’t we get the same sort of footage?  Respect for the dead?!  Yeah ... right!

Hmmm,  call me a cycnical bugger and I originally thought that G W(anker) Bush was trying to figure out what the *** he was going to do immediately after he was told about the incident/s,  but as someone pointed out to me,  he was more like a man with the thought on his mind that went something like,  ‘Oh,  shit,  they’ve really done it!  What now?’

Some of the claims are fake.  Some are real.

The “planes did not hit building” stuff is disinformation, although some of the claims have been effective hoaxes at snaring a lot of people.  Some of the people who believe this are sincere, a few probably are not - but the claims are still wrong regardless of intentions.  (Donald Rumsfeld was the first to claim a “missile” hit the Pentagon - in reality, Flight 77 definitely hit, but it was steered into the mostly empty part of the building, flying past Rumsfeld’s office to do so.)

However, there is abundant, credible documentation that many of the US’s closest allies provided very specific warning that 9/11 was about to happen - warnings that were deliberately ignored.

There’s also the key issue of the war games underway on 9/11 that simulated the actual events, which confused the air defenses long enough for the “attacks” to succeed.

The http://www.cooperativeresearch.org and http://www.fromthewilderness.com websites are the best research guides to the details of what happened.

After all that has been revealed, the theorists don’t HAVE to prove anything. They have shed REASONABLE DOUBT upon an improbable, unproven story delivered to us by KNOWN COMPULSIVE LIARS(not to mention cold-blooded killers, thanks to the new “Worldwide War Without End”).

All you government apologists should be DEMANDING the truth rather than feebly attempting to pick apart theories of those who cannot possibly know the truth in total. Truth seekers have THEORIES concerning what remains of 9/11: remnants of evidence ILLEGALLY DESTROYED AND/OR HIDDEN, which are every bit as viable and likely as the ‘official’ conspiracy theory- a theory possessing close to ZERO basis in fact(nevertheless blindly accepted by many).

VIRTUALLY NO EVIDENCE HAS EVER BEEN RELEASED! No objective, transparent investigations were ever conducted(how convenient that all the evidence was quickly destroyed and/or confiscated by who?? oh yes, the government!).

Who had the GREATEST means, motive and opportunity? Which faction had the HIGHEST probability of success: Arabs under surveillance via the ‘Able Danger’ watch program or the multitude of government agencies and their subsidiaries? Who has made sickening amounts of money as a result?

Who had the power to effectively castrate NORAD, the USAF, the FAA and all other official bodies who might have foiled the plot, had they functioned as they have in the past? Between September 2000 and June 2001, interceptors were scrambled 67 times. In the year 2000 jets were scrambled 129 times, with typical intercept times between 10 and 20 minutes for errant domestic flights.

Who had unfettered access to many buildings and involved institutions including the towers(in great part thanks to Marvin Bush and his company who ran security at the WTC, Dulles, and United)?

All of you government parrots who seem so intent on ‘dubunking’ the theories are missing one simple and DAMNING fact- THE GOVERNMENT HAS HIDDEN EVERYTHING FROM US AND CONTINUES TO DO SO! In addition, they would greatly like to prosecute those who uncover their vile crimes!(New York Times, anyone?)

There is a virtual mountain of evidence to indicate the official story is nothing but a fairy tale. Consider the apalling array of corruption, greed, exploitation of power- the subversion of the constitution and collective will of the founding fathers, executed proudly (or secretly until exposed) as ‘necessary changes in light of 9/11’.

Jefferson is spinning in his grave about now. Wake up, America.

The very fact that truthdig.com would even entertain the idea that 9/11 was an “inside job” shows just how sick and twisted modern-day liberals have become. There have been three separate investigations of that horrible terrorist attack and all three investigations say the same thing: it was an act of war committed by Islamofacists. Contrary to what some of the liberal liers on this post said, a majority of Americans do not believe that it was an inside job. A majority of Americans believe that our federal government should have done more to prevent the attack, so, in that way, they hold the government partially responsible. If you twist that to say that America believes that Bush blew up the towers, you are dishonest, you are sick, and you are beneath contempt.

LET OUR GOOD MEN & WOMEN OF THE USA FOLLOW OUR CURRENT PUBLIC OFFICIAL’S TRAIL OF MASS DECEPTIONS ON 9/11 TO DATE.

5 YEARS LATER WATCH,LISTEN & JUDGE FOR YOURSELF.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5946593973848835726&hl=en

Comment #23158 by Pragmatist on 9/13 at 10:26 am

“...Fifteen of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia…”

I don’t believe that this is EXACTLY right; I think that those people had fake Saudi passports, and no one knows who they really were or from whence they came. Ted Rall still claims they were Egyptians, but he doesn’t know either.

And the other thing is about Osama . . . never been proved that he or al Qa’ida had anything to do with nine eleven.

Scheer has bought the package, lock stock and barrel. He spews out unproven suppositions as if they were facts all the time. But so did the Nine Eleven Commission. It was convenient for them to have someone or some thing to blame, and so they chose a mythical al Qa’ida, probably made up by John O’Neill to put a face on the enemy.

The real terrorists DON’T HAVE AN ORGANIZATION. It would be fatal for them to do so. The supposed “leaders” we have captured or killed were about as much leaders as George Bush, meaning there were not leaders at all and never could have been.

This board is truly brimming with nuts.  Cockburn’s article (you know, the guy from The Nation?) is a sane response to the din of thousands of babbling conspiracy wackos hopped-up on adrenaline-fueled fantasies and low on critical thinking skills.  The obsessions with minutia and the blatantly flawed assumptions about how things work in the real world have totally obscured reality for you people that buy into this crap.

It’s worth reposting this link in the hope that an inquisitive few will take a little time out of their busy conspiracy schedules to give it a look:

http://www.counterpunch.org/cockburn09092006.html

WHO NEEDS 9/11 CONSPIRACY HOAXES?

WHO NEEDS THESE HOAXES? THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION AND NOBODY ELSE. HERE’S WHY.

First we need to define some terms. A hoax is a false claim designed to anger or frighten or fool people. A conspiracy theory is a theory that certain people conspire(d) to do something bad. A conspiracy hoax is a conspiracy theory that is a hoax.

EXAMPLES OF CONSPIRACY THEORIES THAT ARE NOT HOAXES

The theory that our leaders conspired to invade Iraq to promote our oil ambitions and our plan for the New World Order. The theory that 9/11 Commission members conspired to cover up criminal dereliction of duty by Bush for not reacting properly to FBI warnings that a major Al Qaeda strike in the US seemed imminent.

EXAMPLES OF CONSPIRACY HOAXES

Hoax-1. The Government’s claim that Muslim terrorists conspire to attack us because they hate us for our democratic freedoms and liberal values.

Hoax-2. The claim that our Government planned and carried out the 9/11 attacks and destroyed the WTC buildings with planted explosives.

Who needs the first? Of course the Government and nobody else.

Who needs the second? Again the Government and nobody else. But this assertion needs some explaining.

A crucial election is coming up. The public is getting wise to Bush’s lies about why we invaded Iraq and why so many Arabs and Muslims hate us. Bush is taking the heat for his 9/11 negligence and Hurricane Katrina bumbling. A Carl Rove type trick is needed. The 9/11 hoax claim that the Government planned and staged the attack and destroyed the WTC buildings using planted explosives is just the thing. So preposterous that it will bring out the Republican vote in November and weaken the Democrat turnout, since few Republicans will believe the hoax and the Democrats will be split. Attention will be drawn away from Bush lies and failures. Attention will be drawn away from the fact that Muslim terrorists are not going to stop attacking us until we stop harming them and supporting Israeli ethnic cleansing.

The Republicans are not the only ones who don’t believe the claim that our Government staged the 9/11 attack. The principal architects of this hoax don’t believe it either.

For proof that Jim Hoffman, the foremost theoretician of the 9/11 “truth” movement, is lying all over the place, see my blog,
http://the911debate.blogspot.com.

I am working on posting proofs about the dishonesty of the other leaders, including Dylan Avery and David Ray Griffin.

Dylan Avery’s Internet Blockbuster video Loose Change is the current rage among 9/11 “truth seekers.” It is the most extreme of the hoax versions: No airliners hit any buildings or crashed, no passenger lives were lost, no Arab terrorists were involved or lost their lives, and on and on. Below are some links to very easy refutation of the whole range of 9/11 hoaxes, both the false claims by the government and the false claims by the 9/11 “truth researchers”:

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html—Very thorough refutation of Loose Change.

http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/factsheets/faqs_8_2006.htm—What the forensic professionals say.

http://implosionworld.com/Article-WTC9-6-06.pdf—Convincing disproof of planted-explosives theory.

http://www.911myths.com/index.html—Best site for refutation of all the 9/11 “truth researchers” claims.
http://www.representativepress.org/—Best exposure of both Government and 9/11 “truth researcher” hoaxes.

Most people on the Left agree that it’s obvious that Bush purposefully lied us into the war in Iraq.  All of the facts are out in the open…we all talk about the Downing Street Memo and the made-up mobile chemical weapons labs that Powell talked about in his UN presentation, etc. etc. etc.  They knowingly lied.

The fact is that the Iraq war and occupation, while not as shocking or damaging to our national psyche, is a far more serious crime than 9/11.  More Americans have died in Iraq (not to mention 15,000+ injured and maimed), tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis have paid the ultimate price, we have obliterated a functioning and modern country and we have all but bankrupted our economy in the process.

In light of these horrors, Cheney said the other day that if he had to do it all over again, he would.  If they can be this pleased with what’s happened in Iraq, how could anyone possibly doubt that they would be willing to orchestrate 9/11?  They certainly had the motive (PNAC) and the means ($2.3 trillion missing from the Pentagon’s budgets, conveniently reported on 9/10/01 and forgotten about the next day)...I’m pretty sure that money wasn’t spent on AIDS relief in Africa.

As for keeping it quiet, anyone involved is guilty of mass-murder so why would they come clean?  I’m sure they all profited handsomely, too.  Never mind the well publicized gag orders on whistleblowers like Seibel Edmonds.

It’s not true that those in the “9/11 Truth Movement” have nothing to offer as far as what to do about these charges that the official investigation cannot be true.  The goal is simple—to have a completely independent, NON-partisan investigation of 9/11 with a commission of scientists, physicists, military specialists, etc. and not a bi-partisan investigation by politicos and lawyers under the thumb of the Bush Administration.  The 9/11 was a complete whitewash.

The last post that exumes elvis’ ghost and other self satisfied literary clips seems to have his facts skewed.  the bin laden tapes or at least some of them have been found to be fraudulent—this from the mainstream news.  the WTC bldgs, all three of them did not have an inferior infrastructure, there are photographs of it available.  in short, he has not made himself available to the evidence prior to forming his opinion although his world view seems to be accurate.  a few months ago the fbi issued a statement with an admission that they had no hard evidence connecting bin laden with 911.  google it and you’ll see.  Latest MSNBC polls: 56% of americans believe there was govt. complicity and this without much help from the mainstream media. Congratulations to all of us 911 truth activists so let’s keep working hard to bring these killers down.  http://www.911truth.org

How come the “Bush done it” 9/11 conspiracy theorists aren’t so sure that the Roswell aliens or Elvis didn’t bring down the WTC?  Maybe it was the first strike in Gore’s secret telepathic campaign with Hillary to deprive American males of their precious bodily fluids.  Time for a beer!

On the other hand, what could be more exotic or appealing to the paranoid mind than the idea of suicidal jihadis taking revenge on America for desecration of holy Saudi lands by infidel troops or dispossession of the Palestinians.  This version also has the most evidence: the writings and videos of numerous adherents to such beliefs, their 1998 and 2000 attacks, the various al Qaeda videos, the Venice Florida flight school records, and the passenger lists all point to complicity of Egyptian and Saudi fanatics.  And thousands of pounds of exploding jet fuel inside towers with a modest endoskeleton could indeed collapse as abruptly as in a demolition.

The Bush government has indeed fouled the response to 9/11.  It has obscured facts and led the nation into an unwinnable quagmire in Iraq.  Now it wants to expand the mess to include Iran.  It will use the terror bogey to scare voters to vote for people who talk tought but have no real notion of our interests or risks.  Surveillance of stray nuke materials, whether from Russia, Pakistan, or the US itself, are a far greater threat than battling sects in Baghdad.

The worst thing about the conspiracy theory addicts is that they show little interest in any prescriptive action.  Indeed, a theory that presumes a vast conjury of dark forces allows for no operative response.  It leads only to a cloud of self-fulfilling nihilism.  This leads only to a passive “await the Rapture” mentality or a crank rebel ideology of the Timothy McVeigh variety.  Many adherents won’t vote at all or, oddly, vote for candidates who vow more of the same.

We heard a lot of bragging from Cheney in the days leading up to the Republican celebrations of the fifth anniversary of 9-11. He took credit for keeping America safe for the past five years.
The Syrians saved Cheney/Bush from a major embarrassment on September 12 by preventing a blood bath at the American embassy in Damascus.  By killing the terrorists who were trying to breach the embassy they saved American lives, and Bush was saved from having to explain away a disaster so close on the heels of his celebrations.  It would have been a little tough preparing an obfuscatory press-release , even for him.
We aren’t hearing much about it, though.  Republicans aren’t running into the streets to repent of their slurs against Muslims.  There won’t be a surfeit of gratitude from them.
Cheney will just spend the next two years hitting the repeat button, telling us all about the “helluva job” they are doing on national security.

You are all insane.

EDMUND BURKE(1729-1797):

“ALL THAT IS NECESSARY FOR THE TRIUMPH OF EVIL IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING”

There are so many unanswered questions & lots of information that is being deliberately concealed from the American people.The mainstream US news media are not going to ask the questions regarding 9/11.

Let the good men & women of the US see our public officials trail of mass deception on 9/11.

Watch,listen & judge for yourself.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=_5946593973848835726&hl=en

The first thing that jumps into my mind when considering
that the government scenario is a lie, is the depth and the
number of people that would need to be complicit or
quieted in order for the lie to continue for five years and
beyond.

Who has disappeared? Who has been paid off? Who has
been threatened? Who can directly dispute the story being
promoted? Why has no one broken ranks?

It is said that only a few companies in the world had the
expertise to bring down these buildings with explosives in
the manner that has been theorized. One of these companies
was employed in the clean up of the site. Why no statements
from the principals or employees. Have they been bought?
Have they been made to disappear? Have they been brain-
washed into thinking it was for the good of the country?

Did we wait too long to question? Have the unwitting been
eliminated? It’s not unthinkable.

Fifteen of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia

Actually, Mr. Scheer, there were NOT 19 hijackers; in fact, many of the men the US government first claimed to be “hijackers” on 9/11 were later confirmed alive and well in other countries post 9/11:

BBC, Sept 23, 2001

‘Suicide hijacker’ is an airline pilot alive and well in Jeddah

Quite honestly, if you’re going to call your blog “truth dig”, please do a bit better job of digging for the truth.

Yes, 911: Press for Truth is excellent.  You may order it at: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/911_press_for_truth.html

To emphasize two points:

1) First, the role of Pakistan and its intelligence service, the ISI, seems of the highest importance—perhaps in inverse proportion to its media coverage. One serious, and to me, new, allegation in 911: Press for Truth concerns a key figure claimed by the US Government to be a member of Al Qaida but claimed by the DVD to have been also an ISI officer. A related matter not mentioned in the brief article is the close relationship between the ISI and the US Government.

2) I agree that WTC7 stands out as another good candidate for priority investigation.

Radiation sickness among first responders and residents near ground zero, trade center debris less than 2 microns in size, the shape of the explosive cloud in photos of the collapse and tritium in Manhattan indicate a high-energy release on the morning of September 11th, which is corraborated by seismic readings. The evidence does not support a hydrocarbon explosion. Why would Bush remain at Booker Elementary for over a half-hour, endangering the lives of schoolchildren and teachers, if he knew America was under attack? Wht did he twice say he saw the first plane hit on TV BEFORE his appearance with the kids, when the first hit was not broadcast until after the second plane hit? Why does the government continue to peddle an impossible version of events, if not to boldly proclaim that they can orchestrate any ‘attack’ they want and get away with it? It is control via fear, evinced by their recent speeches. We need only stand up to their bullying and watch them fold like a cheap suit. The bully is inevitably exposed as a coward when confronted by bravery. Stand up and face the enemy who masquerades as your benefactor.

Check out the new, reality-based documentary 911: Press for Truth for the best factual examination of the many remaining unasnwered questions.

Isn’t it time to follow the families’ call for a reopened, non-partisan investigation?

Mister Scheer: Thank you for saying so eloquently what’s needed to be said openly for SO long now. We’re all being fed a constant diet of bald-faced “Bushit” by this illicitly *installed* regime, and have been since well before 9/11/2001. And your point about the stage-managed “testimony”—obtained under torture, if at all!—“relayed” to the 9/11 Commission is extremely salient. For over five years, we’ve been spoon-fed lies by a government that keeps all the cards to itself. Bravo!

You won’t find a better or more thorough dissection of 9/11 than Michael Ruppert’s “Crossing the Rubicon: The Decline of the American Empire at the End of the Age of Oil”.  Ruppert, a former LAPD detective, develops the case against the Cheney administration for masterminding the 9/11 attacks.  Like a detective, he develops Means, Motive, and Opportunity with a wealth of footnotes and supplemental documentation. 

As I finished the book, there was no doubt in my mind about who was culpable.  Throughout the book, Ruppert encourages his readers NOT to take him at his word, but to check out the facts for themselves.

I’m puzzled that such a well-researched, exhaustive work would be left off the list of links here.  Does anyone have an explanation?

If you feel like you’re not being told the full truth regarding 9/11, read “Crossing the Rubicon.” You won’t be able to put it down.

Note:  Mike Ruppert has had to flee the U.S. for his own safety and survival.  http://www.fromthewilderness.com
I’m a long-time subscriber to the FTW site.

Hope John Darling reads the following article,he might change his mind. This is the first article that dares to tell. Read it before it is off the air. I just got banned from using Informationclearinghouse site—just repeating from the following author’s opinion. Free speach my ass. 
http://rense.com/general73/whdid.htm
Only one thing that was new to me—the arrested Israels in Floridia, the troopers and FBI found bags of anthrax and explosives and all had ID’s-of Pakistan origin.Sad part- soon-all released !

I would like to thank Robert Scheer on the above article & research titled “Gaping Holes In The 9/11 Narrative.”

When it comes te topic of 9/11/01,we as Americans should not believe much of what our elected officials in this current administration nor a lot of our mainstream US news media tries to spew at us 24 hours daily seven days a week.

The truth will hopefully come out in our lifetime so that we may all judge for ourselves of what really happened that led & caused the tragic of 9/11. What were the reasons,objectives,goals of the attack? Why has so much information redarding 9/11 has been made as “CLASSIFIED INFORMATION”?

Here is information that we don’t see or hear on our mainstream US news networks & media.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

I would like to thank Robert Scheer on the above article & research titled “Gaping Holes In The 9/11 Narrative.”

When it comes te topic of 9/11/01,we as Americans should not believe much of what our elected officials in this current administration nor a lot of our mainstream US news media tries to spew at us 24 hours daily seven days a week.

The truth will hopefully come out in our lifetime so that we may all judge for ourselves of what really happened that led & caused the tragic of 9/11. What were the reasons,objectives,goals of the attack? Why has so much information redarding 9/11 has been made as “CLASSIFIED INFORMATION”?

Here is information that we don’t see or hear on our mainstream US news networks & media.

http://www.whatrellyhappened.com/fiveisraelis.html

In response to Comment #22846 by wayne regarding “realpolitik,” I concur that every president has read Machiavelli: every major leader has.  I accept that a good deal of what I’m told by my “elected” officials is bullshit, that’s why I employ a good amount of skepticism.  The kind of skepticism that is scarcely noticible today.

I wish that more Americans would approach every presidential address with the attitude of “What crap am I going to get fed now?”

We’d be a lot healthier nation if that were so.

In response to Comment #22961 by Dwight Thomas Powers, I congradulate you, sir, on an eloquent description on the feelings I and so many others share.

If I’m this upset, I can only imagine how angry those who lost a friend or relative are because this fucking criminal we call our president.

Last night, I went to the presentation of a locally-made movie in Huntington Beach, CA, about the efforts of BYU Professor Jones. Indeed, the demolition hypothesis looks very credible, especially when they showed side by side the short movies of WTC #7 collapsing and the demolition of a similar building. Also noteworthy was the reminder that NIST is still looking for a plausible explanation for what happened there…

You’ve got me convinced.

It’s now been 5 years and one day since that terrible day of September 11, 2001. I am still angry over those attacks on all Americans, supposedly carried out by 19 Saudi (or whatever) hijackers. It’s still unbelievable to me that we “know” ‘exactly’ whom did what then, and how we “know” the names of the actual culprits of 9-11, yet we still do not “know” how to kill or capture one very tall man named Bin Laden! In truly a crusade type fashion, we have since 9-11-01, as a result of those terrorist attacks essentially, and as a nation under the false tin-god of GWB, pathetically and wrongly bared false witness that all Muslims, or all Arabs are ‘evil doers’ through our Bush induced policies, both foreign and domestic (the Homeland Security Dept. and the inept CBP and FEMA that are a huge part of that charade) and still claim that “they hate our freedoms and they hate our way of life”, whatever the hell that is supposed to mean. I am even angrier today, all this time later, that neo-con idealogues,( all of whom somehow miraculously escaped serving in the military during the war of their time-Vietnam) such as George W. Bush and Dick Cheney have ‘hijacked’ my country, and labeled and ‘swift-boated’ any such as myself, who question Bush’s never-ending debacle of unecessary war in Iraq as “Nazi sympathisers” or “appeasers” or “defeatists”. I haven’t been this angry nor this bewildered since that day back in 1969, the day I nervously returned mostly in one piece to Levittown, N.Y. (a town built for returning W.W.II Veterans like my dad) from my own 13 months in hell in Vietnam. Back then, another lifetime ago, I was angry, depressed and confused (at best) at just how little my fellow countrymen ‘knew’ or even gave a damn about me or my friends then still fighting to survive their own war in Vietnam.More than ironically then, I was old enough,to die, but not yet old enough to vote or not for those who sent me to die! (There were then 550,000 of my brother American troops serving in Vietnam). Back then, there were those too, who said they ‘supported the troops’, those too who were duped into believing that Richard Nixon then had any real ‘secret peace plan’ to win the war. My parents were conned into voting for Nixon in 1968, but Hubert Humphrey was really no different! Nixon’s non-existent ‘secret peace plan’ merely more than doubled the names of the dead that would later appear on the Vietnam Veterans Memorial. Both my mom and my dad voted for Nixon in the false belief that he and his ‘peace plan’ would get their oldest son home alive from Vietnam and home sooner. Back then it was the jingoist wearing of American flag pins on one’s jacket lapels, or the plastered American flag deals on your car,or the ignorant repetition of that ‘glorious’ phrase “my country right or wrong” or the even more ignorant “if your heart ain’t in America, get your ass out” that the supposed ‘real patriots’ of that time brandished against those ‘commies’ like me who then openly and loudly opposed the always escalating carnage in Vietnam. My own frustration over Vietnam led to my becoming a very active and medal-tossing member of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (V.V.A.W.) ‘Back then’ too you may remember, was the same bullshit talk of “we must stay the course” as we cruised into one likely iceberg after another in Vietnam and as more and more fine men needlessly died. Well, back then, I was deemed ‘unpatriotic’ or even ‘treasonous’, when I told my now late and beloved father in our living room in Levittown that “the war was being lost in Vietnam by ignorant policies from Washington” and that “we should all demand that we pull all of our troops out of there immediately”. What the hell did I, a skinny 21 year old ‘kid’ know about war or ‘politics’ for that matter? Well, as it turned out, I “knew’ quite a bit then and even “know” more now, having been sent around ‘the world’in 1968 to an unnecessary stinking, life-sucking and putrid war by a Democrat, and then needlessly kept there in that hellhole in 1969 by a Republican. I then first-hand “knew” or had learned the hard way, that the war I was forced to fight in was based upon and insanely continued by a pack of lies by politicians of all stripes. Here it now is 37 years later, and I am angry that another foolish Republican who today also wears an American flag pin on his suit lapel and has lied and lied my country into yet another never-ending meatgrinder of a war in Iraq, while the original and seemingly ‘righteous’ war in Afghanistan rages on and is ‘conveniently’ forgotten about by most! After all, weren’t we all told that it was the terrible ( and now resurgent-thanks again Georgie-great plan) Taliban in Afghanistan who harbored that guy Bin Laden and his Al Qaeda who were responsible for the attacks of 9-11? Why then, did we make a left turn into yet another crusade in Iraq prior to really ‘completing the mission’ in Afghanistan? All of the false excuses and bald-faced lies used to ‘justiify’ war in Iraq have been proven to be false, and that war is still badly and criminally handled at best, yet Bush remains unimpeached! Afterall wasn’t that LIBERAL ‘evil doer’ Bill Clinton impeached for getting a blow job in the oral office and then lying about it? After 2600 deaths of American troops in Iraq based upon Georgie’s lies, why does he get a pass? This insanity goes on, ad-nauseum while GWB and his pack of right-wing ‘sunshine patriots’ have the unmitgated gall to denounce any and all who question he and his cronies’ ever-failing and ever body bag-stuffing war to ‘bring democracy’ to those who never wanted it and still don’t. The American created Iraqi military continue to sit on their asses and allow the Americans to shoulder ( and they will continue to do so unless given hard deadlines) most if not all the combat burden of war in Iraq, just as the American created ARVN did for me and my brothers in Vietnam. The Democratic’opposition party’ seems to be powerless to stop the insanity and loudly tell the ‘emporer’ that he has no clothes. They had better all soon get off their ineffectual asses and demand real answers to real questions of PEACE and not the ever grinding on Bush war-war-war! The bogus ‘democratization’ in Iraq goes on unfulfilled,(the only real filling going on is the body bags of troops and innocent civilians alike) as does the daily killing and maiming. So ‘back then’ did the lying and the dying continue in Vietnam under Tricky Dick’s ‘Vietnamization’. Today, the foiling of real ‘democracy’ in our own republic ‘homeland’  seems to go on and on despite our supposed system of ‘checks and balances’, and all under the ‘auspices’ of the current one party rethuglican rule. This President,and some of his more repugnant and ever pompous ‘evil doer’ political hacks have been all over the airways these past few weeks, not only trying to impossibly salvage this losing crusade in Iraq at the ever-rising cost of more spilled American blood and more corporately plundered taxpayer dollars, but also desperately in trying to maintain the right-wing stanglehold of our own government, as the critical mid-term elections approach. The ‘pious’ spouting and oft-repeated key phrases designed to further dupe honest Americans into a fog of confusion over the Bush war in Iraq, the brazen continued lying about a ‘connection’ that doesn’t now exist nor never had ever existed between Saddam Hussein,(see the 9-11 Commission Report) Al Qaeda and the attacks of 9-11-01, are further despicable testiment to just how low this President and his neo-conmen cronies will stoop to further attempt to sell this horribly expensive war in Iraq. All of this scamming of the public goes on, unabated, as if the Bush war in Iraq is worth one more precious American life, or worth one more American limb blown off! The snake-oil salesman in chief does not ‘own’ 9-11, but America does! It is our unique American tragedy to embrace, and learn from. Indeed “we shall never forget” nor should we. We should never be led down anymore primrose paths either! So too, do we all ‘own’ that American flag the right wing idealogues have once again wrongly appropriated as only ‘theirs’, just as they did during Vietnam! We all must rise in utter contempt and outrage and regain these symbols for ourselves along with our common decency as Americans! While Bush cravenly fritters away more lives of our fine and honorable troops in Iraq that he supposedly ‘supports’, he continues to lash out at any Americans who dare question him and his bellicose statements on his policy of more war, all the time. If Spiro Agnew (no lilli-livered effete liberal he) were still alive and out of jail now, he would no doubt have some sort of heavy hand in attacking anyone who dared question the ‘authority’ of the Bush radicals. This all goes on while Osama Bin Laden (remember him) and his jihadists hide out “somewhere” and seem to remain untouched by GWB and his grand crusade. No Mr.Bush, I will not allow you to lay false and bogusly ‘pious’ claim ever again to the ruins of the WTC, nor to the ruins of the Pentagon nor to that plowed over field in Shankskill Pennsylvania, where all those innocent Americans died 5 years ago during the cowardly terrorist attacks against all Americans. I will not allow YOU to still lie, unopposed about Iraq, falsely claiming it is the ‘central front’ in YOUR bogus ‘war on terror’. YOU Mr. President, in YOUR theoretical ‘super-Christian’ zeal have turned Iraq into the bottomless American-owned China Shop and abyss of death and destruction, that it now truly is, and YOU have turned most of the supposed ‘civilized world’ against America. You and your dastardly snide cohorts are responsible for this mess in Messopotamia! Where is YOUR plan to get our fine troops quickly the hell out of there? I realize that like Nixon and Vietnam, YOU have no plan. Many other every day Americans like myself are daily waking up to your big con game. YOU, GWB, your fellow radical ‘super-Christain’ idealogues and those who still pathetically remain silent like so many “good Germans” are are ALL responsible for that! ‘Back then’, Nixon’s 5th Avenue, former 7-UP (The UN Cola) ad-mad and fellow Watergate crook H.R.Bob Halderman,(in the Karl Rove tradition?) was supposedly responsible for creating the myth of the ‘Silent Majority’ that then supported the ever-continuing and escalating war in Vietnam. Today, as the dual Bush wars in Iraq and in Afghaniistan rage on, (and as Bush threatens yet more war with Iran while ignoring nuclear armed North Korea) and as that hallowed ground of the WTC remains one huge sad and unfilled hole,not unlike the big hole in my progressive-leaning and patriotic heart, I sit here only a few miles from that sad scar of a hole in lower Manhattan and angrily contemplate the next aluminum casket containing the remains of yet one more of OUR fine troops that has died in either Afghanistan or Iraq as those remains return to America and ultimately to yet one more grieving American family. Those remains are the real ‘Silent Majority’ of today Mr. Bush. Here, I lamely attempt to speak out in protest for that Marine, that Sailor, that Soldier, that Airman that died unnecessarily for YOUR highly suspect cause! Yeah Mr.self-proclaimed ‘war President’, YOU who made damned sure, through YOUR wealth and YOUR rich daddy’s connections that YOU skated into YOUR non-existent carrer in the T.A.N.G and out of combat in the Vietnam War that myself and 2.8 other loyal Americans served in. YOU had better believe I’m angry at YOU and all who continue to ignorantly and foolishly support YOU and YOUR crusade in Iraq.I cannot and will not be silent as you continue YOUR “stay the course” crusade of death and destruction! Each and every day now, there are many more patriotic Americans like me, who refuse to buy YOUR lies about why we need to “stay the course in Iraq” as more and more fine Americans needlessly die for YOUR big lie!                              Yours truly and most disrespectfully, .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

No need to dig very deep to see the truth here.  Follow the money.

Articles I gathered back when and from the wayback machine.

http://www.jungcircle.com/muse/whywar.htm

As someone who watched the events closely, but has only followed the controversy in passing, It’s building seven that stands out like a sore thumb. My impression of the coverage at the time was that it was brought down intentionally because it was unsafe. Consider the situation in that. It takes demolition experts weeks of examination and placing explosives to bring a building down under normal circumstances. In this instance, the steets were practically impassable, the entire country was focused on these few blocks. Police and firemen all over the place. Yet they set the explosives and brought it down that evening! Apparently there is still some abandoned bank building on the perimeter that hasn’t been brought down. Go figure.

Here here. I want to thank and applaud all of you here today for this thoughtful and illuminating discussion. Ya did good. We did good. I hope you’re proud, and Mr. Scheer most surely must be. This was a good one, hardly any bashing, and insightful. Thank you one and all.

And you wonder why you can’t win an election?  With all due respect - you folks are nuts.  I hope none of you in the tin foil hat crowd are in positions of responsibility, or God forbid, raising children.

If only Al Gore had won.  We could have all joined hands and drifted off into a future of low flush toilets, diversity training, and citizenship with the world…

I’m reminded of the apologists for Mussolini and Hitler in 1936.  I know the left loves to equate Bush with Hitler, but in reality, it’s the left that never met a facist they didn’t love.  Hell -Mr. Scheer can clue us in on Kim Il Sung.

Kumbaya my friends - Kumbaya…

1. Many people on this blog have not read Crossing the Rubicon, which answers with documentation and not speculation many, if not all, the questions that have been posed. The Center for Cooperative Research’s timeline is also an excellent resource; its URL has kindly been supplied by someone else, above.

2. Torture is physical agony for one, and psychological warfare on many. To the person who asked, Why torture, consider that if the United States seeks to hoard and control access to what remains of the planet’s oil reserves, it will have a far easier time imposing such territorial hegemony on a terrified populace.

3. Why do so many people accept that Osama bin Laden is responsible for 9/11? The only evidence that we have been shown is a video that is blatantly bogus, wherein bin Laden, who is left-handed, writes with his right hand, wears jewelry forbidden by his brand of fundamentalism, and has had a nose-bridge alteration and gained weight. Why would we accept as truth Osama’s role when a. the FBI do not accept it, as per their page on him in their site’s Most Wanted section (http://www.fbi.gov/wanted/terrorists/terbinladen.htm), and
b. his culpability was first told to us by the Decider’s appointee—while the Decider prepared to sell us on Iraq’s WMD? Among a thousand thousand other lies and acts of deceit?

Now before y’all freak out, please note that there is no defense, in my comment, of Osama bin Laden, as a person and as a criminal. I am asking why we accept the government conspiracy theory above all other conspiracy theories, when there is so much evidence to the contrary; some of which, like the question of controlled demolition (“Why Indeed Did the WTC Buildings Completely Collapse?” http://www.journalof911studies.com/), pertains to the physical dimensions of the tragedy, and others, such as Michael Ruppert’s Crossing the Rubicon (http://www.fromthewilderness.com/store/books.shtml) and
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/02_11_02_lucy.html (also from Ruppert; see also http://www.oilempire.us) furnish evidence that is simply too voluminous and well-documented to ignore?

What did the Decider find too difficult to say: Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me? How about fool us ten thousand times?
Anybody mustering a blush?

My Fellow Countrymen,
  I am an honorably discharged USAF veteran who loves his country. But, as I witnessed the WTC’s towers collapse I felt that something was not quite right. Afterwards some fellow military veterans told me if that I wanted a better understanding of 9-11-01 to take a look at OPERATION NORTHWOODS.
  In brief, this declassified Pentagon memo from the JFK days amounts to false flag terrorism and the actual killing of unsuspecting Cuban Americans to justify invading Cuba. Military tactics do not change. The whole world knows that 911 provided the opportunity for the neocons to launch the PNAC.
  All they needed was a national crisis. As far as Iran goes there is more than meets the eye. Most Muslims will tell you that the conflict in the Middle East is about zionism, or control over the world’s banks and money supplies.
  Rothchild helped establish the state of Israel in 1948 and also helped design the unconstitutional Federal Reserve system, a privately owned for profit international banking cartel in 1910. America’s military might is now being used along with United Nation troops to spearhead one world corporate government/orwellian police state and enslavement of the masses a.k.a. the new world order. Fight back now or get the RFID chip when they are mandatory.

Sincerely,

Daniel E. Moore, President

Most of the evidence of the conspiracy theorists have been plausibly refuted. However, I have not seen any legitimate explanation for two bits of evidence. The free fall speed of the collapse and the testimony of the janitor, please forgive I forget his name,corraborated by others working in the building, that an explosion occured in the basement of the first tower before the plane hit.

THIS IS THE FIFTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE MOTHER OF ALL DRIVE BY SHOOTINGS- THE MOTHER OF ALL “WE HAVE A PROBLEM HERE HOUSTON"S
-MUCH IS BEING SAID ABOUT THIS TODAY…BUT…THERE ARE OTHER PERSPECTIVES…
IT IS, FOR ME ALSO THE THIRD ANNIVERSARY OF THE PASSING OF A FRIEND, WHO WAS A CASUALTY, UNREPORTED, I WOULD BET, OF THE AUGUST 14, 2003 BLACKOUT IN NYC- A WOMAN WHO HAD WATCHED THE SECOND PLANE HIT THE SECOND TOWER FROM HER KITCHEN WINDOW IN BROOKLYN IN 2001.  THAT DAY IN AUGUST 2003, SHE HAD RESTARTED HER LIFE, AS A WIDOW, A MOTHER AND GRANDMOTHER.  THERE WAS A HEAT WAVE IN THE NORTHEAST.  IT WAS IN THE 100’S IN NYC AND PHILADELPHIA THAT DAY.  THE POWER GRID WAS UNDER HUGE DEMANDS. AFTER THE GRID FAILED, THE POWER WAS OUT ALL DAY THAT UNBEARABLY HOT AUGUST DAY, AROUND 5 PM, MY FRIEND DECIDED ENOUGH WAS ENOUGH, AND IT WAS BETTER TO VENTURE OUTSIDE, INTO THE UNCERTAINTY, THAN STAY INSIDE THE STIFFLING APARTMENT, THE ADDRESS SHE HAD DREAMED OF HAVING FOR SO LONG, ON THE UPPER EAST SIDE…SHE FELL ON THE STAIRS IN THE STAIRWELL DARKNESS THAT DAY, WHILE WALKING DOWN 4 FLIGHTS. SHE CRACKED A RIB OR TWO AND BRUISED A LUNG- LUNGS COMPROMISED BY A NUMBER OF THINGS- WHO KNOWS TO WHAT EXTENT THE TOXIC AIR OF POST 9/11?
SHE WAS FOUND UNCONSCIOUSRATHER QUICKLY BY NEIGHBORS, TAKEN TO A ONCE GREAT HOSPITAL, WHERE ONE OF THE ANTHRAX VICTIMS HAD DIED TWO YEARS BEFORE (WHAT PROGRESS HAVE WE MADE ON THAT TERRORIST ATTACK, PLEASE, DEAR LEADER?)...BUT BECAUSE THE POWER FAILURE, THE COMPUTER SYSTEMS WERE NOT OPERATING AS USUAL…HER MEDICAL HISTORY WAS NOT AVAILABLE.  AND WHEN HER DAUGHTER ARRIVED FROM CALIFORNIA WITHIN 24 HOURS…HER DAUGHTER, A NURSE WHO HAD SEEN GOODNESS KNOWS HOW MANY FRAGILE MEDICALLY FRAGILE INFANTS THROUGH RESPIRATORY FAILURE, THE HOSPITAL COULD NOT FIND HER MOTHER IN THE SYSTEM.  HER DAUGHTER SPENT A DESPERATE DAY TRYING TO FIND WHERE HER MOTHER WAS IN THE HOSPITAL.
IMAGINE THE CHAOS OF A NEW YORK CITY HOSPITAL IN A POWER FAILURE THAT WENT ON SO LONG…
BY THE TIME THE MEDICAL HISTORY WAS MATCHED, AND HER DAUGHTER WAS ABLE TO BE INVOLVED…IT WAS TOO LATE.  HER MOTHER LAPSED INTO A COMA, FROM WHICH SHE NEVER FULLY EMERGED BEFORE PASSING AWAY.
WE DON’T COUNT CASUALTIES VERY ACCURATELY IN THESE THINGS.
LET US NOT FORGET HOW TO GRIEVE…

I love all the links to “critiqes” of alternative theories to what really happened on 911.  I especially liked the counterpunch link…rife with condesention and ridicule and bouncing all over the place.

911 Nuts we are.  Anyone who questions the official story is a nut?

Anyhoo, my point is, since when does the 911 Truth movement need to prove anything other than that the official account is pure bullshit?  As far as I know all we’re asking for is a real investigation…we dont’t have to explain ANYTHING.  We have to prove nothing except that the official account CANNOT be true.  Certainly WTC7 does a good job of that by itself.

So how about a REAL investigation, using REAL science, testimonies under oath, NO PARTISANS, and transparent to boot?

Excuse me for believing my eyes and not my lying president… and my eyes saw a demolition.

Call me a 911 Nut, but the official account isn’t even a GOOD lie.  I guess I’m in agreement with the counterpunch “critique” of we nutty conspriracy theorists, that our government is just not that competent to pull such a stunt off without blowing it.  That’s where the media come in, to call us all just plain nutty.

With a third of the country (and growing) now in the 911 Nut camp, how can anyone say they pulled it off without blowing it?

yes, and one doesn’t even need to talk about conspiracy theories to recognize that pnac wanted 9/11 to happen.

you don’t have to discuss the uncomfortable questions that are still unanswered; just look at it this way:

1) in september of 2000, pnac made a plan—a radical, ideological plan to remake america and the world that was dependent on a catastrophic event occurring.
2) september 11, 2001 happened.
3) the plan was dusted off and set into motion. dick cheney on meet the press this past weekend: “if we had it to do over again, we’d do exactly the same thing.”

of course they would’ve. that was the plan.