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DIG DIRECTOR
Robert Scheer is editor in chief of Truthdig. He is a nationally syndicated columnist, author of seven books and a co-host of the political radio program "Left, Right and Center."
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Robert Scheer: Gaping Holes in the 9/11 NarrativeA Dig led by Robert ScheerFive years out from the attacks, why do we still know so little about what really happened that day?
What we still dont know about 9/11 could kill us. By “we I mean the public that has been kept in the dark for five years by a president who may know the truth but has chosen to ignore it. Instead of grappling with the thorny origins of that disaster, George Bush willfully turned the nation’s attention and resources to a totally unrelated and disastrous imperial adventure in Iraq.
The story was much different in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, the two countries that had recognized and otherwise supported the Taliban government that hosted bin Laden during the run-up to 9/11. Fifteen of the 19 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia, and yet there has been no serious investigation of the extended royal familys role in the recruitment of bin Laden’s soldiers” and the ease with which they secured legal visas to enter the United States.
Nor has there been any credible accounting of the role of Pakistan’s intelligence community, then and now, in support of Islamic terrorists on both sides of the Pakistan-Afghan border. Or in the passage of Pakistans nuclear secrets to what Bush refers to as “rogue nations.” Recall that the predominant excuse for invading Iraq was the claim that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction and would be willing to pass them on to rogue regimes and terrorists. Not only were such weapons not found, but the evidence from the accounts of former administration insiders and the Senate Intelligence Committee makes clear that the administration was consciously cherry-picking the evidence to shore up its fraudulent case. There were weapons of mass destruction being shipped to “rogue nations, but they were coming from Pakistan in an extensive program headed by Abdul Qadeer (A.Q.) Khan, the father of the “Islamic bomb.” The Pakistan government has admitted that Khan passed on to North Korea, Libya and Iran technical know-how and vital materials for the creation of nuclear weapons. But Khan was pardoned of any crimes by Pakistan’s dictator general, President Gen. Pervez Musharraf. Khan is restricted only by a loose form of house arrest and has never been made available to U.S. investigators. Yet the Bush administration dropped the sanctions originally imposed on Pakistan in reprisal for its development of nuclear weapons in return for Pakistans support in the “war on terror.” As for Afghanistan, the Taliban is on the rise. NATO commanders last week urgently requested more troops, and the country is now torn by the anarchy of a narco-state that is supplying 92% of the world’s heroin market and generating massive profits for gangsters and terrorists alike. The country is now as dangerous for American soldiers as is Iraq. Despite this sorry record of neglect in Southwest Asia and the creation of a quagmire and recruiting poster for terrorism in Iraq, Bush once again arrogantly asserts that his policies have made us safer, even as he has undermined our domestic freedoms and mocked the U.S. commitment to international law, particularly concerning the treatment of prisoners. Last week, Bush conceded that there were indeed secret CIA prisons, when finally announcing that the group of “key witnesses” to the 9/11 disaster would be moved to Guantanamo and for once afforded visits from the Red Cross and minimal legal representation. Some of them have been interrogated in secret for up to five years, with the Bush administration left as the sole interpreter of what they revealed. After five years of official deceit, it is not too difficult to believe that the isolation of those prisoners was done less for reasons of learning the truth about 9/11 and more in an effort to politically manage the narrative released to the public. There is glaring evidence that the latter was the case. The 9/11 Commission report contains a disclaimer box on page 146, in which it is stated that the report’s account of what happened on 9/11 was in considerable measure based on what those key witnesses allegedly told interrogators, and that the commissioners were not allowed to meet the witnesses or their interrogators. We submitted questions for use in the interrogations, but had no control over whether, when or how questions of particular interest would be asked. Nor were we allowed to talk to the interrogators so that we could better judge the credibility of the detainees and clarify ambiguities in the reporting.” In short, the most cited source that we have on what happened on 9/11, the much celebrated 9/11 Commission Report, was stage-managed by the Bush administration, just as it has controlled and distorted so much other information. In light of that sorry record of the propagandistic exploitation of the 9/11 tragedy for partisan political purpose, is it any wonder that large numbers of Americans have doubts about all of it and that a considerable industry of documentaries and investigative reports has sprung up with alternative theories ranging from the plausible to the absurd? In the sidebar to the left, we offer some examples of the better of those efforts, not by way of endorsing them but rather because there is so much reason to doubt the “truth” as the Bush administration has packaged it.
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By sam, December 9, 2007 at 4:00 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Endgame - Blueprint for Global Enslavement
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkLNiv6EP-I
“Countless people will hate the ‘New World Order’ and will die protesting against it.” - H.G. Wells, The New World Order, 1939.
“I appeared before the congressional committee, to tell what I knew of activities that might lead to, an attempt to set up a fascist dictatorship.” - Smedley D. Butler.
“The potential, for the disastrous rise of misplaced power, exists, and will persist.” - Dwight D. Eisenhower.
“The very word ‘secrecy’ is repugnant in a free and open society, and we are as a people inherently and historically opposed to secret societies, to secret oaths, and to secret proceedings.” - John F. Kennedy.
(Did JFK’s words echoing Eisenhower’s directed at members of “The Order of Skull and Bones,” once known as “The Brotherhood of Death” of which we know the Bushes—and John Kerry, who recently refused to answer student Andrew Myer’s simple query as he had read in one of Greg Palast’s books, whether or not he is also a member of this secret society—have a direct link to his untimely death by assassination in 1963? Such words pose a direct threat to the very existence, and therefore ‘power’ and ‘influence’ of such secret societies no?)
“President [G.W.] Bush signed, a formal agreement, that will end the United States, as we know it. And he took the step without approval from either of the US Congress, or the people of the United States.” - TV news reporter.
“The secret organisations of the world power elite are no longer secret.” - DEBATE NIGHT, U.S. SENATE.
“It’s known as, ‘The Bilderberg Group’. Could their objective be, ‘world domination’?” - TV news anchorman.
“I’m not comfortable with that at all - who elected these guys to run the planet?” - Pat Martin, NDP-Manitoba.
“David Rockefeller admits in his own memoirs that he wants to destroy the United States. He’s a traitor!” - Alex Jones.
“Let us never tolerate outrageous conspiracy theories.” - G.W. Bush.
“There is a chance, for the President of the United States, to carry out a phrase his father used, and that is, a ‘New World Order’.” - Gary Hart.
“Your ‘new world order’ will fall. Humanity will defeat you. The answer to 1984, is 1776!” - Alex Jones.
“Battle Hymn of the Republic”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEAEcca9pRk
“Don’t Tase Me, Bro!”
Report thishttp://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/09/dont-tase-me- br.html
By Blog Dog, December 9, 2007 at 1:09 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
In response to all recent posts, 2 things we must never forget:
1. “Deception is a state of mind and the mind of the state.” - James Jesus Angelton - Director of CIA Counter Intelligence (1954-74)
2. “The Central Intelligence Agency owns everyone of any significance in the major media.” - William Colby - Director of the CIA (1973-76)
Report thisBy Maani, December 8, 2007 at 10:57 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Some addenda to my post re The Carlyle Group.
1. James Baker III, a managing director of TCG, was the attorney who argued GWB’s side in the 2000 Florida debacle. He was also the head of the Iraq Study Group, and is currently heading up the panel overseeing the reconstruction efforts in Iraq.
2. Due to the unique “access” of Carlyle director Arthur Levitt (former SEC Chair), the United Defense IPO was “greased” through the SEC system with little or no oversight whatsoever.
3. One of TCG’s banking funds was used to purchase a major interest in a Korean bank - to the tune of $500-$750 million. It is one of TCG’s largest single assets.
You may remember that GWB was saber-rattling at North Korea, and eventually cut all ties with them. Less than a year later, he reversed course and helped create a group (incl. China, Japan, S. Korea, N. Korea, Russia and the U.S.) to “work things out.” Wonder why GWB reversed course? The only logical reason is that Bush pere got on the phone to his son (talk about access!), and reminded him that TCG had a MAJOR asset in Korea - one that would benefit GWB (since anything from which the father benefits ultimately benefits the son) - that was being seriously adversely affected by GWB’s policies. And voila! GWB “reconsiders” his policy toward N. Korea.
4. For those in the NYC area, in 2003 TCG heavily invested in (or bought) a NY real estate development company called Extell. Extell’s first purchase was the land underlying Donald Trump’s “Riverside South” development - at a cost of over $1 billion. Within four years, Extell has gone from developing a single building to being among the top four real estate development firms in the city. And I don’t need to add that almost every project they have undertaken (or are currently undertaking) has been highly controversial, often accompanied by huge protests that target not only Extell but TCG.
The list actually goes on and on. TCG is among the main groups associated with what has come to be called the “New World Order” (along with Bilderberg, Trilateral et al). They are an 800-pound gorilla with unique - and dangerous - access and influence, to say nothing of hopelessly major conflicts of interest.
Peace.
Report thisBy Maani, December 8, 2007 at 10:28 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Douglas:
Wolfowitz’s speech was based on the 2000 neocon position paper, “Rebuilding America’s Defenses,” which first mentioned “a new Pearl Harbor” (and is where David Ray Griffin got the title for his book). Anyone who truly cares to understand the genesis of the 9/11 attacks, that doc is must reading, and is available on the Web.
Aaron/Frank:
To understand the Bush/Bin Laden connection, one needs to know something about The Carlyle Group (TCG). As something of an expert on TCG (I have been following them since their inception in 1987), I can give some instructive info here.
TCG is a primarily a venture capital firm that creates targeted “funds” for the purpose of purchasing majority positions in major U.S. and transnational corps, primarily defense, media, finance and telecomm (though they have their fingers in many other pies). They have achieved a unique prominence in this area through access and influence, as their senior mgmt includes: George Bush Sr., John Major (former UK PM), Frank Carlucci (former CIA head), James Baker III (former U.S. Sec’y of State, current personal attorney to the Bushes), Louis Gerstner (former IBM head), Arnold Levitt (former SEC head), Kenneth Rennard (former FCC head), among others.
The bin Laden family was introduced to TCG by George Bush Sr., TCG’s “emissary” to the Middle East following his presidency (he continues as a consultant, despite his and TCG’s denials to the contrary). It is not known whether GB had any direct contact with OBL, but, contrary to the family’s claims, some of them were in contact with OBL at various times, albeit infequently.
That said, GB convinced the bin Laden family to invest in two TCG “funds,” one for banking, the other for a defense industry fund. And this is where things get really scary.
Part of that fund was used to purchase a company called United Defense in late 2000, early 2001. Immediately after 9/11, TCG moved to take UD public. (As an aside, this IPO was “greased” through the system by Levitt, former SEC chair, with little or no oversight.) In late Oct 2001, UD’s IPO was issued, and TCG reaped a SINGLE DAY profit of over $220 million. Note that(i) UD only became valuable because the industry was “revivified” by 9/11, and (ii) the bin Laden family thereby benefitted handsomely from the attacks. As a related aside, there is the truly unbelievable coincidence that TCG was having its annual mtg - at which the IPO was discussed - in Washington DC on the morning of the 9/11 attacks.
Add to this the fact that the bin Laden family was secretly flown out of the U.S. on 9/12 and 9/13 (when no one else was allowed to fly), and you get a clearer picture of both the Bush/bin Laden family relationship, and the power of TCG.
More to come…
Peace.
Report thisBy george Archers, December 8, 2007 at 6:09 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
I’m not uptodate it appears about 911 attacks.Today Brasschecktv had sent me this video which is old news but the comment below is new to me. Can someone please let me know if our government has blocked any media network from debating the 911 attacks. Is it true and how so and is it legislation ?
Quote from Brasscheck---
“In Gooogle video one of America’s most successful film directors, David Lynch, questions the reality of the “official consensus” version of events.
Note that this interview was broadcast in the Netherlands. Intelligent discussions of 9/11 are for all practical pruposes banned from broadcast channels in the US, both commercial and public.”
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, December 7, 2007 at 8:12 pm #
#107588 by WR Curley on 10/16: “Like God, if 9-11 had not happened we would have had to create it....”
Well, yes, WR Curley. Wolfowitz did suggest that the USA need a “Pearl Harbor-like event” in a speech at Westpoint some months before 9/11.
But, what is worse though, he’s back in charge of security.......!!! http://www.newsweek.com/id/73273 and see Truthdig article.
Report thisBy sam, December 7, 2007 at 4:44 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
9/11CooperUnionNY,P.5/8CarlPerson,JustinMartell,JamesFet zer,AlfreadWebre09.07.07
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=88578326297153 87909&q=Jim+Fetzer,+Cooper+Union&total=20& amp;start=10&num=10&so=0&type=search&plinde x=4
“Attorney Daniel Sheehan, counsel for Karen Silkwood, and general counsel of the Institute for Cooperation in Space, of which I serve as international director, has stated that he has possession of a list of 42 NSA and CIA operatives who are posing as high-level media executives. This is the mechanism by which the war crime of 9/11 continues to be executed.” - Alfred Webre, 09.07.07
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cjli_cwkPrw&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWgSaBT9hNU&mode=related&search;
Report thisBy Frank Goodman, Sr., December 7, 2007 at 3:37 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
118729 by Aaron A. Senko on 12/07 at 1:48 pm
Aaron: Yes there are connections. Google Osama Bin Laden George W Bush and see what comes up. Follow up anything that looks interesting to you in connection with your hunch. You will find some very interesting interactions between the Bin Laden family and the Bush clan.
Report thisBy jojo, December 7, 2007 at 3:24 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
FBI refuses to identify 911 attack planes--and more
Report thishttp://rinf.com/alt-news/911-truth/fbi-refuses-to-conf irm-identity-of-911-planes/1875/
What is so stupid about we Americans,sit on our asses too FKN long.
By Aaron A. Senko, December 7, 2007 at 1:48 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
I don’t know;maybe i’m the only one who’s had this thought,(and if america truely is the land of the free;i can express my thoughts with out fear of government retaliation),but,the bush family & the bin-ladin family have had ties of business,and personal natures for well over a decade;"dubba"and his buddy osama,both disliked hussan,and both profit from this war of thier’s;it’s not that far a jump to reach the assumption of georgie boy’s involvement in a conspiracy to initiate 9-11,as a possibility. I’m just saying!!!
Report thisBy WR Curley, October 16, 2007 at 4:38 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
This is stupid.
Like God, if 9-11 had not happened we would have had to create it.
Osama Bin Ladin, whatsoever he may be, is no threat to you or to me. He is the bogeyman. He has never claimed credit for the event that “forever changed the world”. He is an Orwellian conveniance, a straw dog, a paper tiger. Consider this...there are something like 12 million undocumented illegals roiling around inside the US borders at this moment - more coming and going all the time - people who are entirely unknown to our security services. If Al Qaeda had any chops at all, wouldn’t there be two or three 9-11’s a month interrupting your daily commute?
Think a little. Let’s straighten this thing out.
WR Curley
Report thisElizabeth, Colorado
By Maani, October 2, 2007 at 8:18 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Trevor:
Not quite. Firstly, while I may have a problem with the sheer number of people who would have had to be ADDED IN to the conspiracy given the theory suggested in these videos, the existence of a 9/11 conspiracy is not dependent on phony airplanes. In this regard, I continue to maintain that a conspiracy DID exist, one which included Cheney & Co. (since there are those who believe Bush too stupid to be have had a significant role in the planning).
I have explained at least three times on this thread how conspiracy theories work, and how it is possible that so many people can be “in” on them and yet there are no leaks, no whistleblowers, and a high degree of plausible deniability. This was true with Pearl Harbor (though virtually all of those involved were political and military personnel) and JFK (where a minimum of dozens, and perhaps hundreds, were involved in one way or another). If you have not seen my explanation, I am always happy to provide it. But you clearly do not understand how a successful conspiracy works.
Finally, you continue to miss a critical point re the fires and the steel. Even setting aside that steel cannot melt - or even SIGNIFICANTLY weaken - at the temperature at which diesel fuel burns, let us assume that you are right: that the fires were hot enough to “weaken” the steel. But that does not explain why the bottom 2/3 of each tower - which were COMPLETELY UNAFFECTED by the impacts, explosions or fires - would have collapsed at the same rate as the “weakened” floors. Indeed, the UNAFFECTED portion of each structure was greater in size and density than the upper, affected portions. In this regard, physics would demand that either (i) the lower portion would remain intact as the upper portion fell “off” the rest of it, or (ii) only part of the lower portion would collapse, but that some - perhaps as much as a third - would remain standing.
Indeed, even given your scenario of weakened steel in the upper third of the towers, and even given a collapse of the ENTIRE structure, that collapse could not have occurred at the rate at which it did - at or near free fall speed - because the FULLY INTACT bottom 2/3 of each tower would have provided at least minimal resistance to the collapsing tops, causing the collapses to occur much more slowly.
Finally, re the fires themselves, once again you ignore two critical facts. First, the smoke from the fires went from grey to black within twenty minutes. Black smoke signifies an oxygen-STARVED fire - i.e., one almost certainly not hot enough to even weaken the steel. Second, there are steel structures that have burned MUCH hotter for MUCH longer over a MUCH larger area, and did not collapse.
You seem to have a knack for cutting yourself on Occam’s Razor. LOL.
Peace.
Report thisBy Trevor, October 1, 2007 at 6:38 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
MAANI-- Ah, the crack in the armor. This point that every anchor, reporter, techie, witness had to be in on it is not just a little problem with the various conspiracy theories, it is a fatal flaw in the whole system. In order to make this wild conspiracy you have to involve so many people it would be impossible to pull off without someone talking. Now people who believe in one conspiracy model are accusing belivers of another conspiracy model of being CIA plants. There might be some open questions in the standard hijacking model, but the conspiracies only work if you allow for logical fallacies and outright distortions of the truth.
For instance, your allegation that the videos show a sky that was not as clear as weathermen noted the day. It is true that videos of later in the day sometimes showed the haze fires and collapse, but most videos I have seen show that fabulously blue sky. Maybe you are referring to the way the sky looks grayer after the images are enlarged to prove some imagined anomaly. Or the artifacts of bad compression on YouTube.
Other distortions I’ve seen you repeat is that the building could not collapse because the fire could not melt steel. How many times must it be repeated that the fires merely WEAKENED the steel, not melted it, and the combination of the structural AND heat damage caused the collapse. Lets also add that this was NOT the first steel structure to collapse to heat stress.
But keep thinking, and apply Occam’s razor to all those pieces of truthiness you are given.
Report thisBy blogdog, October 1, 2007 at 12:42 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Re : September Clues part 5 :
IMPORTANT NOTICE :
The “fireball only"-shot seen at 2:20 into part5 is ‘borrowed’ from CBS only to portray what is now on Fox’s archives. This is because I was unable to download the (similar)Fox5 “fireball only"-shot from Television Archive.
Here’s the link for anyone who would like to check it out for himself :
http://www.archive.org/details/fox5200109110831-0912
scroll to 31:45 where they’re discussing (presumably in real time) the first attack with one of their staff who claims he saw it from Hoboken (across the river) --- listen to the hastily drawn conclusion (on nothing but very limited visual evidence) and you’ll hear what appears, for all intent and purpose, perfectly scripted
this line (no planes) has never gotten my attention until seeing this compilation - again, any experts out there following this thread who’d care to weigh in?
Report thisBy blogdog, October 1, 2007 at 11:04 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
The Central Intelligence Agency owns anyone of any significance in the major media. Former CIA Director William Colby 1973-1976
“Deception is a state of mind and the mind of the State” - James Jesus Angleton, Head of CIA Counter Intelligence 1954-1974
Report thisBy Maani, October 1, 2007 at 8:57 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
I have taken the time to view the entire 90 minutes (it is actually somewhat less). And although I am no video expert, it certainly is powerful stuff. Among the most critical points (for me) - only touched on briefly - is the question of the video backgrounds. We all remember that 9/11 was among the most beautiful, clear, blue days any of us has ever seen. Yet the backgrounds of EVERY SINGLE “live” video feed of EVERY network is either hazy, colored or otherwise not clear. This ALONE should increase a person’s skepticism about what the networks were showing. Indeed, keep this one fact in mind as you watch, and it will have a profound impact on you, even if you don’t other particular aspects of the series.
However, there is one thing that bothers me in the extreme. If what the creators of these videos suggest is true, then they are tacitly suggesting that EVERY news anchor, EVERY witness and even EVERY techie at the various news stations was part of the conspiracy. This stretches credulity to levels that even I, a VERY serious 9/11 Truth movement member, have trouble with. Yet the creators of this series do not even address this question at all.
Still, this series is must-viewing for any person willing to keep an open mind and look at yet another aspect of 9/11 that is questionable at best.
Peace.
Report thisBy blogdog, September 30, 2007 at 7:08 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
many reject this line - but this compilation is pretty convincing - all 8 take about 90 min. to view - to dismiss this you almost have to conclude that the makers of this compilation did exactly what they’re accusing the media of having done - the question is then, whom do you believe - any video expterts wish to weigh in?
http://www.livevideo.com/video/socialservice/6F393F4DE 41C4CF798CBB438E6378129/september-clues-part1.aspx
Report thisBy trevor McArthur, September 30, 2007 at 2:32 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Hey ‘:-)’— Wow, you almost had me there, took quite a while for me to look up sources to explain this. It would be so much easier to be in the conspiracy camp where I could just make stuff up and ignore any contradictions.
I wish we could get the mythbuster guys to take out a 767 and recreate the flight in safe airspace, but it should be noted the plane did not get to that speed in level flight, it had previously been in a dive as steep as 10,000 ft/min. THere are several references for this but here is one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1TXIW97e6kc
A dive of that type COULD explain excess speed and the airframe would not “shake itself apart”.
And I cannot take your video as the last word because all the people quoted seem to be talking about what the plane is recomended for and expected to do. Your main expert designed the LOW SPEED (stall shaker) warning system. The plane was pushed to its absolute limit by people who did not care about safety and even almost collided with another aircraft. Fortunately (or maybe not) most planes can go a little beyond designed tollerances. There are several interesting posts on this at Above Top Secret: http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread304786/pg
But I don’t understand your comment about women so I’m going to ignore it.
Report thisBy :-), September 22, 2007 at 4:29 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Trevor--eat your own heart out--get a load of this new 911 U-tube video, out today
Report thishttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2upl977dsY
Now smartie pants--go and call Boeing and Booing them until you get connected with someone that can answer the simple question---can a Boeing travel 500 mph at 700 ft and what happens after it does above 230 mph. No wonder Women are dumb.
We expect you get on your knees and beg for giveness
By Frank Goodman, Sr., September 19, 2007 at 5:48 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
#101371 by Trevor on 9/19 at 10:41 am
Gravity is not a speed. Gravity causes an acceleration of a mass in free fall in time. Given the height of the top floor, it would be moving faster than the first floor by the time it reached where the first floor was when it started its fall. The first floor would be accelerating at the same rate, but for a much shorter time, thus reaching a slower speed of descent before it fell to the ground level than the top floor, which would have accelerated at that rate for a longer period before it reached ground level.
Report thisBy JoJo :-), September 19, 2007 at 3:06 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Large amounts of explosives throughout each floor going at selected programmed detonations,along with the upper weight of the floors collapsing,cause a negative thrust to the upward blast force and the downward blast aids the gravity force. Please do check out the outward blast spikes caused by explosives and going far enough onto 100’s total distruction of autos 8 blocks away-only explosives can bring bldgs down faster than gravity speed.
Report thisBy the way TREVOR, check these 2 videos and learn something from experts outside of Usrael. And thanks for being a Gentleman
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/149.html
By Trevor, September 19, 2007 at 10:41 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Jojo-
On the zionist/anti-semite issue, I myself have criticisms of the Israeli right-wing parties and government policies, but I notice anytime the word ‘Zionist’ comes out that hate toward ALL Jews follows pretty quickly.
For Loose Change criticism, I have to refer you to the Screw Loose Change blog (search that by google), 911myths.com, and debunking911.com, they have the facts much better at hand than I do.
I’m sure I have a better grasp on basic physics than you, enough to say ‘the buildings fell faster than gravity’ is nonsense. First you SEE pieces ejected to the side falling faster than the main structure, disproving this. But even if believed, do you think there are jet engines pushing the structures down? Even if it had been a controlled demolition it would have only fallen at ‘freefall’ speed. How do you make buildings fall faster than gravity and what does it prove? That is among the weaker conspiracy ideas.
Report thisBy JoJO :-(, September 19, 2007 at 3:35 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Sorry Trevor to reply to your post--you got screws loose and lost. Please stop with this ant-semite B.S. , Zionists are NOT SEMITES you fool .I bet you could not find one real semite in America.
Report thisTry telling us,what you find replusive with looseChange 911 and while your at it--read up on a junior physic book--principals of gravity and get back to us. All three WTC dropped faster than gravity speed. Go you bonehead,make my day :-(
By Trevor, September 18, 2007 at 9:48 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
This article does touch on the difficulty that comes when you see an official version does not delve deep enough yet you also know that other people are going over the deep end trying to loose ends that don’t actually go together. I know these conspiracy theories are a path to madness (and notice the way it gets misused by anti-semites on this thread?) but I hate to be mistaken as an apologist for Bush & Co.
I do wish there were some of the anti-conpiracy sites up there, such as the screw loose change blog, 911-myths.com and others.
Report thisBy L. Thomas, September 15, 2007 at 3:48 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
OK, I’ve taken a good look at Perry Logan’s first 9/11 conspiracy-"debunking" site (I’m not going to spread the BS link any further with the URL - It’s in Logan’s post if you must).
On the WTC7 controversy, the “debunking” site goes into a long, endless line of nit-picking over what Silverstein meant by “pull-it”. All you need is the context - where the owner says “...decided to pull-it and then we watched the building [WTC7] collapse”. So to hell with demolition slang analysis, the collapse was a voluntary act and therefore pre-planned (as the same site assures us demolitions must be). They also show a photo supposedly proving that cables were used to “pull” WTC6 (so?). However, there are no visible end-points for either of the seemingly thin cables in the photo (what are they attached to?) - you can’t tell. But, these examples give a taste for the style of the “debunking” sites: they love to do endless word-smithing of any and all pro-conspiracy text - then, out of this text (any parts will do) they create various diversions, “red herrings”, and “straw men” which they proceed to knock down. And this is “debunking”??
Instead of all this word-play, why not answer a couple of real questions:
1. How did the BBC report the “unexpected” collapse of WTC7 over 20 minutes BEFORE it started to fall? On a live TV report, WTC7 is reported down - while it is STILL VISABLE in the live background shot behind the British reporter!! This is fully documented and not really even denied by the BBC. The video is available on the web.
2. Why hasn’t the final [NIST/FEMA/whatever] report on the collapse of WTC7 been released - even NOW! over 6 full years after the event?? And why has the administration opposed ALL 9/11 investigation attempts at EVERY TURN??? Super-secret classified stuff? like why no fighter planes were available over the northeastern USA for an hour and 20 minutes - secret stuff like that.....
If you want to read about some really fishy business, read up on the Naudet brothers and their amazingly lucky video capture of the FIRST plane hitting the WTC? A really unbelievable coincidence (truly) - do a search, there’s a great site on it.
Report thisBy PAIDTRIOT, September 3, 2007 at 11:54 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
There is no such thing as a conspiracy throughout all of history. Nobody is smart enough to pull it off, ever.
Report thisBy Rabid Rabbis from Izzyreal, July 19, 2007 at 9:07 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
ZIONISTS:Ones who believe they are the “only” humans(God’s"Chosen ones")& rest is “Trash” to be consumed / used. MODUSOPERENDI:start as business and bilk the populations while laying down Organisations that are for (fake)trade & “our protection” whose actual purpose is surveillance & Harrassement of “nonZIONIST”. they keep screaming “Hitler’s holocaust, Hitler’s holocaust” while they been doing WORSE since 1948 in their Fanatic Fantasyland called Isreal aka “shitty little state”, armed with 300 nuclear bombs that they dont want to talk about.(these are peaceful people!lol) GOAL: creation of some nutty global empire based on pureness of “Chosen Ones” ENEMIES: anyone that does not Comply with them or their propaganda (is also branded an Antisemite & thoroughly harassed) NETWORK: global and very developed, a well oiled machine bent on EVIL. FEARS: “EVERYBODY is out to get us because we are good!” this is the typical brainwash and then they
Report thisWHITEWASH real issues with PATRIOTIC LIES. Also intresting to note that Mr Vanunu who stated the true state of Israeli Nukes rots in jails since 2 decades fro speaking the truth, hence we can safely conclude that TRUTH is definately not a passion in Israel. so GOD HELP ALL THAT COME IN CONTACT WITH ZIONISTS!
By Dan Uu Noel, June 7, 2007 at 4:57 pm #
Wow! This discussion is still live after all these months! And the official story appears to have lost much steam
Thanks to Maani for the 3/14 observation about the NY Times sending a veiled message about the 9/11 conspiracy. This brings up the can of warms of the mainstream medias complicity in the 9/11 farce.
A couple of months ago, the 9/11 shit stepped closer to the fan amid revelations that the BBC, CNN, and perhaps other outfits, reported the pulverization of World Trade Centers building #7 way before its actual collapse. Interestingly enough, their description matched the upcoming demolition.
As Dave von Kleist stated in In Plane Site, it is unthinkable that the mainstream media would not have the means to do the same research that he did from his little studio and draw the same conclusions. Their complicity has been the subject of much speculation.
One optimistic take on this enigma is that they made a pact with the federal government, by which they will not expose the farce if the politics of repression/aggression do not cross a certain threshold. Maybe the NY Times sent a warning that the government was stepping dangerously close to the threshold
Love,
Report thisBy Maani, April 21, 2007 at 2:24 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Although somewhat tangential, thought you should see this, from the NYT on 4/21:
A Terrorist Goes Free
By BERNARDO ÁLVAREZ HERRERA
AFTER the attacks of Sept. 11, President Bush forcefully argued that it was every countrys duty to fight international terrorism. He made the case that sponsoring terrorism or simply looking the other way when it happened were equivalent acts, and the United States would stand for neither. But holes have started appearing in that principle, courtesy of a single Venezuelan terrorist, released this week from a New Mexico prison on bail.
In early 2005, Luis Posada Carriles, a Venezuelan with a long history of violent attacks in Latin America, sneaked into the United States and was soon arrested. Mr. Posada had escaped from a Venezuelan prison while awaiting trial in the bombing of a Cuban airliner in 1976 that killed 73 people, including all 24 members of Cubas youth fencing team and several Guyanese medical students. This was the deadliest attack on a civilian airliner in the Western Hemisphere in history until 9/11.
Upon Mr. Posadas capture, the government of President Hugo Chávez demanded his extradition. But the Bush administration has refused to extradite Mr. Posada to Venezuela or Cuba, claiming that it fears he will be tortured in those countries. In fact, Washingtons reluctance is more likely linked to Mr. Posadas history as a Central Intelligence Agency operative and a darling of extremist sectors of the powerful Cuban-American community in Florida (he tried to assassinate Fidel Castro with C-4 explosives placed in an auditorium packed with students in Panama in 2000). Twenty-two months have passed since Venezuela formally asked for his extradition, offering 2,000 pages of documentary evidence to substantiate its claim, yet the State Department has not even acknowledged receiving the request.
Nor has Mr. Posada been charged with the 1976 attack, even though declassified Central Intelligence Agency documents indicate that his role has long been accepted as fact. Instead, he faces charges of immigration fraud, a travesty that could be equaled only by charging Osama bin Laden with entering and leaving Pakistan without a visa. Finally, Mr. Posada was released on bail on Thursday, even though he is an obvious flight risk and a violent terrorist.
Of course, Mr. Posadas case isnt the first instance related to Venezuela in which the Bush administration has set aside its principles for political expediency. Five years ago last week, the Bush administration gleefully welcomed a coup that overthrew President Chávez, replacing him with a junta that suspended the Constitution, dismissed the National Assembly and dissolved the Supreme Court. Thankfully, the Venezuelan people ensured that their democratically elected president was returned to power two days later.
Just as the Bush administrations support for the Venezuelan junta undermined its pledge to uphold and promote democracy around the world, allowing Mr. Posada to avoid prosecution for a vicious attack he can credibly be accused of masterminding throws into doubt the sincerity of President Bushs war on terrorism. Mr. Posada is a terrorist, regardless of the cause he fought for or the allies he might have. The Bush administrations foot-dragging on his extradition and its failure to even classify him as a terrorist is unconscionable.
Last week, Venezuelans celebrated the return of democracy after the coup against President Chávez. But they continue to mourn the 73 people killed aboard that civilian airliner. If President Bush is serious about the principles he set out after 9/11, he need only look to Venezuela and correct the mistakes he can. The coup has passed, but the chance to extradite or prosecute Mr. Posada hasnt.
Bernardo Álvarez Herrera is Venezuelas ambassador to the United States.
Report thisBy Douglas Chalmers, April 20, 2007 at 12:11 pm #
I think we all saw the WTC planes but what I dispute is whether anyone could ever have hijacked them in the first place unless they were properly trained passenger jet pilots (military or civilian) with a working knowledge of the interior layout of 747’s.
If anyone has seen inside a cockpit, they will know what I mean. There are literally dozens of dials and levers and even flying a light aircraft is nothing at all like driving a car. What is more, how could an inexperienced person even find New York from the air never mind identify the right building to hit. Also, the two planes each successfully managed to hit a separate tower of the WTC!!!
Its not easy to get into the cockpit, either. Unless you’ve been there, you couldn’t even find it on a 747 and there is more than one door to go through - and you have to get past the navigator and other crew in that area as well. The hijackers would have to have had some equipment to use to break through those doors - or a key or pass code!!!
There’s no way a couple of ordinary guys could have done any of that with mere “box-cutters”. They would have to have been armed and it would have to have been a military-style operation. And, since when could anyone have ever found “box-cutters” in such a crash site and attributed them to the hijackers? Even the crash of the third airliner would have strewn wreckage over a couple of kilometres.
No, 9/11 surely was planned and executed far better than we have been told by the authorities. The reason why Afghanistan was bombed, although no Afghans brought down the twin towers, only supposedly citizens of Saudi Arabia, was that it was Britain’s biggest arms client. They were thus already effectively the main partner in “the coalition of the willing”.
Report thisBy Sharina J., April 20, 2007 at 10:38 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
I honestly think there is more behind the story that is being told about the 9-11 attack. There is too many missing pieces for anyone to come up with a possible explanation of what really was the cause of the 9-11 attack. Knowing the truth is the leased the Gov. could do for all the families that had losts their loves ones.
Report thisBy Maani, April 19, 2007 at 6:23 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
All:
The Winnipeg Sun covers 9/11 Truth!:
April 18, 2007
WINNIPEG SUN
Scholars debate 9/11 findings
By JOHN GLEESON
An unbiased observer doesn’t need to look beyond what’s happening on the ground today in Iraq and Afghanistan to conclude the War on Terror has been a brutal, manipulative means to a transparently self-serving end.
None of this is news, however, to proponents of “9/11 Truth,” a worldwide movement that seems to keep growing despite an unofficial media blackout on their questions and investigations. So what are these “Truthers” saying?
Many people were quick to declare 9/11 a possible “inside job” based on the visible facts themselves, in particular the blanket failure of air defence, which even former Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura said defied all logic and precedent. They also seized on the history (largely unknown in North America) of Pentagon-linked “false-flag” terrorist attacks in Europe during the Cold War, and CIA involvement with al-Qaida operations.
With the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, it was seen that 9/11 was amazingly fortuitous to the Bush administration, elements of which had been looking for excuses to invade both countries—for purely strategic-commercial reasons—in the months and years prior to the attacks.
But it was the release of the 9/11 Commission Report in 2004 that breathed full life into the 9/11 Truth Movement—because it was now apparent to many that the “official story” relied on massive distortion and evasion.
The most dramatically disputed aspect of 9/11 is the question of what the world really saw that day in New York City, when three steel-frame high-rises—the 110-storey Twin Towers and the 47-storey WTC 7—collapsed at near free-fall speed neatly into their own footprints.
In 9/11 and American Empire: Intellectuals Speak Out (Olive Branch Press, 2007), former Brigham Young University physics professor Steven Jones argues forcefully that the nature of the collapses, the presence of large pools of molten metal in the basements of all three buildings, witness accounts of hearing explosions—that these and other factors point to the conclusion all three buildings were brought down by controlled demolition.
This view, though rejected by Popular Mechanics and defenders of the status quo, has won support from engineers and academics from other disciplines. For instance, John McMurtry, a philosophy professor emeritus at the University of Guelph and fellow of the Royal Society of Canada, credits Prof. John Valleau of the Chemistry-Physics Research Group at University of Toronto for drawing his attention to “this scientific anomaly.” McMurtry concludes: “The instant and inexplicable collapses of the WTC buildings in uniform demolition style could not be explained by fire (plus, in the case of the Twin Towers, the impact of the airplanes) without contradicting the laws of engineering physics.”
David Ray Griffin, a former theology professor from California who has become a leading voice of 9/11 dissent, also points to the destruction of evidence after the collapse—most of the steel was quickly hauled away and shipped to Asia, where it was melted down.
“Although it is normally a federal offence to remove evidence from a crime scene, the removal of the steel, which was carefully overseen, was facilitated by federal officials,” Griffin wrote.
You can see why these scholars are calling for an independent, preferably international investigation into 9/11.
Report thisBy george, April 3, 2007 at 7:47 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Breaking good news on 911--we are going after NIST
Report thishttp://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007/3/emw515165.htm
Check also the link of the potential law suit
By Maani, March 21, 2007 at 6:49 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Jackie:
You ask, “Were supposed to believe that this criminal regime lied about everything EXCEPT 911?”
Bravo! That is a fabulous question in response to many skeptics. After all, the list of lies begins with WMDs, a Saddam/Al Qaeda connection, Guantanamo, Abu Gharib, illegal wiretapping, Wilson/Plame/Libby, Walter Reed, firing of Justice Dept. prosecutors - and just goes on and on and on and on…
Peace.
Report thisBy jojo, March 21, 2007 at 6:26 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Best evidence that explosives were used is if you watch toproof radio transmit towers--which is centered on the roof. Once the bldg WTC starts to crumble, the tower tips to the side and then goes upright and disappears in the center. Proves that the center elevator concrete shafts were blown to colapse from the middle. Let us not forget that all 3 wtc towers were closed down for a week for electric refit. They-the culprits must think we are such stupid ones. Mostare !
Report thisTime to go after our friends of Israel media--they know who done it and no arabs did it.
By Jackie T. Gabel, March 20, 2007 at 6:37 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
RE: Okay, perhaps there WERE explosives in the buildings. But how do you know the terrorists did not put them there? After all, they did it once already in 1993.
>>> That 93 WTC operation
was set up through CIA/FBI-run operatives. Al Queda is a CIA/MI-6/Mossad-directed operation and has been since the Afghan/Russian War. Certainly, whoever did any of these horrible attacks is a terrorist. Point is this: most of the terror in the Global War of Terror is run by a rogue network of operatives within and without the aforementioned organizations. These are networks of moles, patsies and professional executioners. Moles kill genuine investigations. Unwitting patsies draw attention and take the fall. Professionals do the job and slip away under cover.
These are not home-grown indigenous blowback, operations. Dont overlook Blackwater and their ilk in any of this, and dont be taken in by cointel assets like Ward Churchill. His Little Eichmans schtick was vigorously pumped through the MSM simply to discredit the logical conclusion that the 19 patsies simply could not possibly have executed 911; i.e. fly sophisticated jumbo jets like fighter pilots, let alone wiring the WTC. Also, get past the Left Gatekeepers consider this:
Were supposed to believe that this criminal regime lied about everything except 911?
Report thisBy Jail Bush Cheney Rumsfeld Joint Chiefs, March 20, 2007 at 5:38 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Anyone who thinks that “terrorists” could have the knowledge to design 3 controlled demolitions like that does not understand how complex the arrangement of explosives as well as the timing of the detonations is. demolition experts with many years of experience could have pulled off the wtc demolitions. many things remain unexplained and that is how everything was literally pulverized into nothingness. you probably know that there is speculation that some kind of new weapon systems were used that may have been tested in this operation. it is a little known fact that many client states won’t purchase a weapon system until it has been tested in warfare. that is one very important function of war to the military industrial complex. i wouldn’t doubt that there was something new used here. there are a number of inconsistencies to conventional controlled demolitions.
Report thisBy Maani, March 20, 2007 at 1:01 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Jail Bush:
Thank you for that link. Powerful stuff.
However, I want to offer a “devil’s advocate” position, one that I obviously do NOT hold, but one which is likely to arise in discussion with others - and has already arisen in a discussion I have had.
When I sent a skeptic to the link, they watched it, and their response was: “Okay, perhaps there WERE explosives in the buildings. But how do you know the terrorists did not put them there? After all, they did it once already in 1993.”
He was not referring to CD charges, of course (i.e., the squibs and “pop-pop-pop” referred to by the firemen). He was referring only to the secondary explosions in the sublevels of the towers. But he “makes a good point” as far as the skeptics are concerned.
I have not yet figured out how to counter this, but I am working on it. (LOL)
Peace.
Report thisBy Jail Bush Cheney Rumsfeld Joint Chiefs, March 19, 2007 at 10:05 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
NEW COMPILATION OF 911 T.V. COVERAGE ON 911. ANOTHER STELLAR PIECE OF THE PUZZLE-- Doubters, watch this, then try to overcome your belief system and denial and own that this was a covert operation, just like Katrina.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/91.html
Report thisBy george, March 17, 2007 at 3:48 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
“We wonder why the main media does not want to report on alternative causes of 911 “ Hummmmmm!
Report thisLet me tell you peed-ons why ---because they know what group of untouchable people wanted and planned it. Still it does not fully explain it. Now!… try this hint---same religious frat boys control all the media and government. Still don’t get whom ? Try researching the USS Liberty bombing and the King David Bombing and you’d be surprized. Question--why don"t any demo company come out and spill the beans? Cause they depend on government approval on all demo contracts !Another problem is that they are also from the same frat rat club.
Get over it--do something about it--scream it out at all candidates meetings--No arab did 911 and you guys know it. If they ask you who did it--tell"um---same guys who did USS Liberty Bombing. P.S they know who did it .
By Maani, March 17, 2007 at 10:41 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
All:
An interesting article re Khalid Mohammed:
http://www.commondreams.org/views07/0316-22.htm
Peace.
Report thisBy Jail Bush Cheney Rumsfeld Joint Chiefs, March 16, 2007 at 11:01 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
O’Donnell Out Of The Closet… As A 9/11 Truther
Report thisTalk show host lays out WTC 7 facts in blog
Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Friday, March 16, 2007
By Jail Bush Cheney Rumsfeld Joint Chiefs, March 16, 2007 at 10:49 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
good stuff.... nice posts. for those that buy the pancake theory-- fine. it is of course true as it has been proven on t.v. through animation. it’s easy to prove things through animation. regarding sheikh whatever his name is, who knows if he confessed anything at all-- look at the source. also the most obvious give away that this confession is ridiculous is that he “confessed” to all those crimes, even the perle beheading which we know to have been another cia psy-op as the background has been identified to be abu graib. but the most obvious and predictable give away is the timing. everytime the heat is on-- spelled GONZALES/BUSH, they try to distract with something like this. the timing is impeccible. if these revelations were put on a graph, the graph would like the beats of a very healthy heart.
Report thisBy Maani, March 16, 2007 at 5:01 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Jackie:
Great stuff! Thanks.
Shepherd:
Well, setting aside WTC 7 (although it is truly the “linchpin” in the CD theory), there are actually quite a few aspects of the collapses of the twin towers that point to CDs.
First, you (like the 9/11 Commission) simply ignore the 47-column solid steel central core of the buildings, to which the floors were attached, as well as the steel lattice structures that held up each floor. Even if you are correct that it was simply the damage by the planes and the ensuing fires that caused the collapses, there is still no explanation vis-a-vis physics for why the collapsing floors would not have met with at least token resistance from the superstructure and from the lower, undamaged floors, thus slowing down the rate of collapse. Yet both towers collapsed at “free-fall speed,” meaning that there was ZERO resistance.
Second, as we have discussed ad nauseam here, fires could not have melted the steel. Steel melts at 2900 F. Diesel jet fuel - at its hottest - burns at 1800 F. Thus, again, physics does not allow for the fires to have melted the steel. Indeed, as we saw that day, the fires themselves went from white to gray to black - denoting fuel-STARVED fires - in less than an hour.
Third, a “pancake” collapse would have sent debris in all directions, and left large - huge - chunks of concrete all over the place. Yet at least 85% of the concrete in the twin towers was pulverized BEFORE IT HIT THE GROUND. The only thing that could have caused this was thermite charges (i.e., CD).
Finally, as noted, the towers collapsed at free fall speed, largely into their own footprints. This is not something that could have happened from a simple “pancake” collapse. Indeed, had the floors collapsed as you suggest, even the minimal resistance of the lower floors would have created a “stutter” effect as it collapsed, increasing the time for the total collapse. Yet this is not what occurred.
As noted, I have not even gone into WTC 7, which was without question a controlled demolition (which I am happy to go into if you wish).
You might want to do a little more research than simply relying one person’s comment about the construction of the buildings.
Peace.
Report thisBy John Hanks, March 16, 2007 at 12:51 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
It’s the cover ups. If they ever reveal, it is only to conceal.
Report thisBy Maani, March 16, 2007 at 10:39 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
Breaking News!!!
Khalid Mohammed, the terrorist who claims to have masterminded the 9/11 attacks, as well as almost every major terrorist action in the past decade - including personally beheading reporter Daniel Pearl - has admitted to assassinating JFK, killing JonBenet Ramsey, and holding up a liquor store in Gary, Indiana.
News at 11…
Report thisBy John Hanks, March 15, 2007 at 4:58 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Talk to your friends and enemies. Put signs in your car and house windows. (Do you think you will still need them in a death camp?) Speaking Truth to Power Means Agitation - Not Supplication!
Report thisBy shepherd, March 15, 2007 at 4:27 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
The late architect Harry Seidler on visiting the WTC during its construction expressed genuine surprise at the simplicity of the design concerning how the floors were attached to the central and outer columns of the structure; basically the floors were simply “hung” using steel girders beneath, with the floor then laid atop it.
Then these fuel-laden hijacked planes are crashed into the upper floors of the two towers causing an instant blazing exploding inferno, the heat such that the girders began to warp; one finally gave way while all the while the inferno was spreading and engulfing further parts of the building. The weight of one floor crashing onto the one below then caused the hung girders below it to also come under such stress that it had to give way and so as we saw (due to the accumulating weight of floor collapsing upon floor) the result being the tragic pancake effect that Seidler I think was ominously alluding could one day happen. (There was even at one stage, well before 9/11, some controversy about corrosion weakening structural parts of the towers due to poor insulation of the girders from the very beginning. Anyone see the program?) So where exactly does this fanciful imho “controlled demolitions” argument come into it?
The most compelling argument that government agencies were complicit in the 9/11 attacks comes from the ex-Boston air traffic controller Robin Hordon far as I can see. Has 60 Minutes or Frontline interviewed him yet?
Report thisBy Harry H. Snyder, March 15, 2007 at 4:10 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
“A confession” from Gitmo is about as relivant as one from Dachau.
Oh BTW I killed Kennedy, Shot Wallace, and Lennon, and started the great chicago fire.
Report thisBy Jackie T. Gabel, March 15, 2007 at 1:13 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
RE: Comment #58770 by Maani on 3/15 at 7:32 am
To My Fellow Alternative Theorists:
What to make of the front page news that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed has confessed to masterminding the 9/11 attacks in ALL respects?
>>> why torture the point
there exists beyond all reasonable doubt substantial proof that al Queda was and probably still is a CIA/MI-6/Mossad asset - leaving anything reported about al Queda from any of these agencies questionable at best - no details are issued about such confessions for reasons of security were told - BS, any truthful details would incriminate the spooks even further
bottom line: The 911 coup is an open secret in DC, where theyre now scrambling to rein in the madmen before they start WWIII, without blowing the coverup, triggering the biggest constitutional crisis since the Civil War and precipitating a global financial meltdown, all of which is unavoidable anyway. So theyll keep calling us wackos, keep deluding the public and fighting to keep hold of their own fantasy vision of the future.
Report thisBy Maani, March 15, 2007 at 7:32 am #
(Unregistered commenter)
To My Fellow Alternative Theorists:
What to make of the front page news that Khalid Shaikh Mohammed has confessed to masterminding the 9/11 attacks in ALL respects?
There are quite a number of possible reasons for and responses to this.
First, despite his contention that “his statements at the tribunal...were not made under duress or pressure,” he (and/or his family or other loved ones) may well have been threatened. That is, he may simply be lying about the “duress or pressure.”
Second, enough torture can break anyone, including a hardened terrorist. Thus, it may be that the CIA was finally able to break him, and his confession is equal parts truth and fiction - but just enough truth to bamboozle the public.
Third, just as mob bosses often took (and take) credit for murders, thefts, etc. that they had no part of simply to seem more powerful, Khalid may well be claiming responsibility for actions that he either had no part of, or was a part of but did not “mastermind.”
Fourth, keep in mind where this revelation is coming from: the U.S. goverment, military and intelligence apparatuses, and the spineless, complicit corporate media. This government has lied before (No! Say it aint so! LOL), and continues to lie about almost everything. So why should we believe THIS?
Finally, and perhaps most cogently, even most alternative theorists agree that Arab terrorists were INVOLVED in the 9/11 attacks. Some believe those terrorists were either “used” in some way (threats and/or promises made, money paid, etc.) or were connected to the CIA or other U.S.-related agency. In this regard, even if Khalid was involved in the planning of 9/11 - and even if he was high up on the planning chain with OBL - this IN NO WAY negates the probability of complicity by high-level political and military personnel in the U.S. Indeed, the controlled demolitions of WTC 7 and the twin towers are all the proof that is needed to implicate U.S.-based complicity.
So when those who are not very knowledgeable - or are outright hostile - about alternative theories of 9/11 bring up this revelation about Khalid, stay calm and use the above points to counter them.
Peace.
Report thisBy Maani, March 14, 2007 at 6:12 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
We all know that the mainstream media has largely refused to touch alternative theories of 9/11. There are many reasons for this, some obvious (cowardice), some not (backlash).
Although The New York Times has worn kid gloves re 9/11 truth, there is a VERY interesting juxtaposition of articles that may represent a “coded” message for the truth movement.
In the Wednesday, March 14, 2007 issue of The Times, on page A16, there are two articles.
On the left hand side of the page is an article on the controlled demolition of the Stadust Hotel in Las Vegas. It is accompanied by two photos, one prior to the CD, and one just as it is occurring. Note that the Stardust has a remarkably similar outline to WTC 7.
On the right side of the page - directly next to the photo of the collapsing Stardust - is an article on the passage by Congress of some of the recommendations of the 9/11 Commission.
I realize that this may simply be coincidence. However, the Times chooses where each article in each section will appear. They could easily have put the articles on different parts of the page, or even different pages. Yet they chose to put them next to each other.
Is there a message here for the 9/11 truth movement? Is the Times trying to tell us something?
Curious minds want to know…
Peace.
Report thisBy John Hanks, March 12, 2007 at 7:28 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
It is time to simply accuse the vicious crooks who think they run this country. I always refer to them as crooks and traitors and I speak matter of factly about their planning an execution of 911. It is weak to call for investigations, etc. We must say what these people are. Otherwise their gouging and chiseling and murdering will go on forever.
Report thisBy Myra99, March 11, 2007 at 9:26 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
S O M E O F T H E A B O V E N E W S
====================::::::::::::::::::::::
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~::::::::::::
===================================:::::::
2008 State of The Union Address Preview Shocker
....Divine, eternal justice has found in us, as judges and your retainers, its brilliant reflection on earth. Subject only to the laws of immortal equity, unknown to culpable compassion, indifferent to cursing and entreating prayers, obeying the voice of our conscience alone---we illumed this earth with the light of human wisdom and sublime, sacred truth. Not for a single moment forgetting that justice is the foundation of life, we have crucified the Christ in days gone by, and since, to this very day, we cease not to grace Golgotha with new crosses. But, certainly, only ruffians, only ruffians are hanged. We showed no mercy to God himself, in the name of the laws of immortal justice---would we be now disconcerted by the howling of this impotent, starving rabble, by their cursing and raging? Let them curse! Life herself blesses us, the great sacred truth will screen us with her veil, and the very decree of history will not be more just than our own. What have they gained by cursing? What? They are there, we’re here. They are in dungeons, in galleys, on crosses, but we will go to the theater. They perish, but we will devour them--devour--devour....
http://dwardmac.pitzer.edu/Anarchist_archives/goldman/ socsig/kinghunger.html
=====
Rabbi Lerner Agnostic on 9/11 Inside Job
Source: tikkun.org
Michael Lerner 3/1/2007
One could argue that there is room for both conversations, and there is. In fact, the kind of psychic trauma that would happen were the charges of intentional involvement in 9/11 by the president, vice president, other high office holders, or our security apparatus ever proved in a court of law would almost certainly open up political space for a serious discussion of the kinds of radical changes Im suggesting, especially regarding our approach to foreign policy and homeland security. Indeed, people might be open to establishing much more forceful checks and balances on the imperial presidency, reaffirming and even strengthening civil liberties protections that have been undermined by the Patriot Act and other policies of the Bush administration, securing democratic forms by eliminating the electoral college and establishing instant-runoff voting and fully, publicly financed elections that forbid any direct or indirect contributions or support for campaigns or the parties that run them, establishing firm public control of electronic voting and strict public control over lobbying to ensure that money plays no role directly or indirectly in the process, and other measures to reclaim the democracy that has eroded since 9/11.
These are important changes that could be won if 9/11 lies are exposed, if in fact they were lies (about which I am agnostic).
Rabbi Michael Lerner is editor of Tikkun Magazine. He can be reached at RabbiLerner at tikkun dot org .
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Report thisEditor: Myra M. Jackson
By Jackie T. Gabel, March 11, 2007 at 6:33 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
RE: “… If a conservative smears you, the best way to deal with the problem is to forget the choir boy stuff and reach for a baseball bat.”
>>> Absolutely!
We have no more use for the sort of Liberals who leave the room when a fight breaks out. And, as the Chicken Hawks:
Pat Buchanan, MSNBC commentator
No military service.
Ann Coulter, writer & commentator
No military service.
Lou Dobbs, CNN News anchor
No military service.
Paul Gigot, Wall Street Journal editor
No military service.
Sean Hannity, Hannity & Colmes host
No military service.
Brit Hume, Fox News anchor
No military service.
Rush Limbaugh, Radio talk show host
No military service.
Bill O’Reilly, O’Reilly Factor host
No military service.
Michael Savage, Radio talk show host
No military service.
George Will, Washington Post columnist
No military service.
To one and friggin’ all: Bring it on! Any time! Any place! Mano a mano, boys, mano a friggin’ mano! What’s there to loose? They’re ridin’ shot gun for the strangeloves steering us all into thermal nuclear war.
Only one way out: round up the 911 Criminals the charge:
Report thisMisprisions of Treason investigate, indicte, prosecute and execute!
By John Hanks, March 11, 2007 at 3:46 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Here is a letter to the editor that I wrote for a Wyoming newspaper:
Queen Victoria hated enthusiasm and I agree with her. You can almost always spot a crook by his wild enthusiasm or his absolute certainty. When Ann Coulter says Democrats are faggots she does it with the same certainty that she might announce that they are all from outer space. The trick is to keep the tone right and the expression sarcastic as if it is impossible for anyone to disagree. She knows her right-wing suckers well. Context is the most important thing in language. Half-baked and poorly educated conservatives practice smear tactics as well as she does.
Start with a wild insult and you control everything. Every neo-con traitor dirt bag knows the drill. Sadly, too many liberals and progressives have been too interested in ideas and facts to catch on to the simple verbal aggression that is the stock and trade of every right-wing con artist. If a conservative smears you, the best way to deal with the problem is to forget the choir boy stuff and reach for a baseball bat. The worst way is to try to defend yourself in a civilized manner as if right-wingers are ever civilized. As Ecclesiastes might have said, There is a time for civilized discourse and there is a time for barbarism.
Your average lower middle class Republican is angry at the world and anger speech is always on the tip of his tongue. He particularly despises liberals who read books, play with ideas, and have lively conversations. Most horrifying of all he suspects that liberals dont believe in Santa Clause. The conservative mind, which understands all things at age 16, fights valiantly to keep its fists up against any idea that has not been certified by Limbaugh or Coulter. He follows in the ancient tradition of those who thought lightening rods and regional time zones were the work of the devil.
The irony is that the American right-wing conservative is the most radical person in our history. Unable to win honest elections, he feels free to rig them. Unable to persuade Americans to wage wars of conquest, he flies Americans into skyscrapers as a sort of circus stunt to whip things up. Since he hates people smart enough to see through his endless tricks, he makes sure that our media and schools become propaganda mills for his comic book ideas. Every American institution is debased in the service of the privileged few, who have endless wealth, plus the criminal values of New York mafia dons and Southern plantation owners. They whipped up enthusiasm for a never-ending phony war that they knew was lost before it started. Still, it was a great way to brew up a honey pot for drug kingpins, weapons dealers, and every other sort of over-privileged jerk.
I dont believe that America exists anymore. We are just another pathetic third world shack full of termites and falling apart. I do believe in crooks and traitors, however, and they are as obvious as the maggots on a dead horse.
John Hanks
Report this721-8122
By Maani, February 28, 2007 at 5:14 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Jail Bush:
Thanks for the Streiber piece. He talks about the possibility of another 9/11. Others have suggested this as well. And what a crisis it would create if just happened to occur within the few months prior to the 2008 elections!
However, there is a fundamental difference this time: the Bush Administration has set things up so that they can remain in power.
Consider: just as only one news source reported the missing BBC tapes, only one news source (that I am aware of) - The New York Times, of all places - reported that Bush & Co. have successfully arranged for the president to have unilateral power to declare martial law.
As you know, the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 puts the power to declare martial law in the hands of a supermajority (2/3) of Congress. The president has only very limited ability to do so.
However, within the defense budget bill passed in October 2006 was a provision that would allow a sitting president (Bush or successor) to delcare martial law unilaterally - and virtually at whim. This power - more associated with distators and despots - is now in the hands of the most dangerous president of all time.
Where was the media on this? And why did the Times wait four months after the fact to report it?
What this all means is that, should Bush & Co. create another 9/11 prior to the 2008 elections, the president will be able to declare martial law - and remain in power until such time as he relinquishes it. And given the president’s current power to unilaterally declare anyone an “enemy combatant,” and the evisceration of “habeus corpus,” any American who dares speak out against martial law is likely to find themselves in jail.
And don’t think it can’t happen here.
Peace.
Report thisBy Jail Bush Cheney Rumsfeld Joint Chiefs, February 28, 2007 at 3:13 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
From ‘Whitley’s Journal’ Wednesday February 28, 2007
http://www.unknowncountry.com/journal/
The 911 Script and the Age of Terror
Whitley Strieber
I must admit that I have been deeply shocked by a story that appeared today on my website, to the effect that the BBC reported the collapse of WTC Building 7 23 minutes before it actually took place. Previously, the BBC claimed that it had lost all of its 9/11 coverage, but this video has now surfaced. I watched it myself, and sat there with my blood literally running cold as I saw their reporter saying that Building 7 had collapsed while it was still visible behind her, perfectly intact.
Now, why wasn’t this just a simple mistake? For a simple reason: the collapse of Building 7 has been explained to us as a sort of freak accident that nobody expected.
It is, frankly, impossible that the BBC reporter’s statement was accidental. She is clearly seen reading from a teleprompter. she was reading a script, and that script had been put up on her teleprompter early.
Somebody wrote that script and distributed it to the media. I have long since abandoned the US media as a lost cause.
The American media is an anachronism, by ignoring the real news and running the silly stuff. Because of what appears to be an almost surrealistic belief that people cannot do bad things in concert, they missed Watergate. And they are missing 9/11 as well. They all are, and, in the end, they will be abandoned by the public because their silence and refusal to investigate are, in effect, lies spoken without words on behalf of what is coming to seem a devastating and widespread conspiracy against the lives of thousands of people, against western civilization and against human freedom at the deepest level.
And the scale of the thing is terrifying. If the BBC was reading a script, as it must have been, then they were all reading scripts, and not one reporter has come forward, not one editor, and there is not a breath of suggestion in the 9/11 Commission report that any such thing might have been happening.
The Bush presidency is a burnt-out rump, it would seem, reduced to this odd recent practice of sending its officials into harms way in the apparent hope that any misfortune befalling them will gain it some sympathy, even as the president prepares for the future by buying a large estate in Paraguay. (However, he might have done a little more research about that country before he bought, given that the Colorado Party, which has been in power since it was set up by Nazi sympathizers and German immigrants in 1947, is now facing a serious threat from Msgr. Fernando Lugo Méndez, a populist bishop who is likely to win the next general election.)
And then there is the terrifying prospect that another 9/11 will take place, but this time one so terrible that we will all desperately cleave to authority in the hope of preserving our lives, no matter who we think might be responsible. Anything less than a nuclear attack on one or more American cities would drive Bush from office, because it would reveal his entire anti-terrorism apparatus for the gimcrack sham that it is.
So it’s perfectly possible that nuclear weapons are already in our cities, and have been there for years. As the Bush presidency winds down, the only real question is, will they be used to bring the American people to heel, or will he choose the Paraguay option?
I used to believe that the Administration let 9/11 happen so that it could have an excuse to attack Iraq and destroy our freedoms. Given this latest piece of news, I think that anybody who seriously thinks that the whole event wasn’t carefully planned and fed to us as a scripted “news event” needs to have their head examined. It was planned, period. Otherwise this reporter wouldnt have been announcing one of the disasters before it happened. It’s inescapable.
Report thisBy Craig R. Lane, February 28, 2007 at 2:12 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
Okay “Gang”, I am starting to think I like you guys!
Here is a post from info-wars, Buzzflash will NOT let this be posted either..read it and weep.BBC Has Lost Tapes Of 21st Century’s Defining Moment
9/11 coverage gone due to “cock up”. Why is this not a world news headline?
Steve Watson
Infowars.net
Wednesday, February 28, 2007 It has come to light this week that the most pre-eminent broadcasting company in the world has lost the original recordings of its output for the entire day on September 11th 2001, just over five years on, yet no major news agency has even bothered to report the fact.
Despite being currently the biggest story on the internet and in the alternative media, the only place in the mainstream the story has appeared is on a small German news website.
This highlights the fact that the mainstream media is not free to report events. The information it disseminates is strictly controlled and regulated.
The BBC was forced into claiming that the recordings covering the 9/11 attacks have mysteriously vanished in response to fierce criticism over the fact that on the day the news agency reported that World Trade Center Building 7 had collapsed almost 30 minutes before it actually came down.
Conspiracy or no conspiracy, surely the fact that the BBC has made this announcement should be reported.
A cogent precedent can be found in the relatively recent furor over the loss of the moon landing tapes by NASA. This was reported in every major newspaper and on every major news website in the world for over a week when it came to light last August. The story then hit world headlines again when the tapes were found.
In the eyes of the mainstream media the September 11th attacks in 2001, it seems, are not as important an event as the moon landing, which happened last century, 38 years ago to be precise.
Therefore it is purely as a result of the persistence of the alternative media, and its audience, that regular BBC employees are now being deluged by e mails and calls asking them to divulge what their source was for reporting the collapse of Building 7 a full 26 minutes before it happened.
The BBC editor’s blog is currently carrying the following statement from Richard Porter, editor of BBC news:
“We no longer have the original tapes of our 9/11 coverage (for reasons of cock-up, not conspiracy). So if someone has got a recording of our output, I’d love to get hold of it. We do have the tapes for our sister channel News 24, but they don’t help clear up the issue one way or another.”
Report thisBy Myra99, February 28, 2007 at 1:31 pm #
(Unregistered commenter)
A RENDEZVOUS WITH DESTINY. There is a mysterious cycle in human events. To some generations much is given. Of other generations much is expected. This generation of Americans has a rendezvous with destiny.
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Franklin_D._Roosevelt
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S O M E O F T H E A B O V E N E W S
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Is the Military Our Last Hope?
By Paul Craig Roberts
Is the high command of the US military breaking ranks with the Bush Regime?…
Perhaps America could regain its reputation if General Pace would send a division of US Marines to arrest Bush, Cheney, the entire civilian contingent in the Pentagon, the neoconservative nazis, and the complicit members of Congress and send them off to t