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DIG DIRECTOR

Stan Goff is a retired veteran of the U.S. Army Special Forces. During an active-duty career that spanned 1970 to 1996, he served with the elite Delta Force and Rangers, and in Vietnam, Guatemala, Grenada, El Salvador, Colombia, Peru, Somalia and Haiti....






 
 

Sowing the Seeds of Fascism in America

Author Stan Goff, a retired 26-year veteran of the U.S. Army Special Forces, sounds a warning call that many of the historical precursors of fascism—white supremacy, militarization of culture, vigilantism, masculine fear of female power, xenophobia and economic destabilization—are ascendant in America today.

When I was 18, before student tracking in the public schools had been formalized, an informal tracking system was nevertheless in place: the university track, the craft track, the poultry worker track, and the prison track.  I was somewhere between the last two.  Both my parents were working in a defense contractor factory, and I was left adrift in the factory-worker ‘burbs to be trained by television and alcohol.  Raised on a curriculum of McCarthyism, I did the most logical thing I could think of to avoid both the factory and eventual incarceration with the ne’er-do-wells with whom I was keeping company.  I joined the Army, and volunteered to fight communists in Vietnam.

I tried to get out of the Army once, and it lasted for four years, whereupon I ended up doing piecework in a sweatshop outside Wilmar, Ark.  Back on that public school track, I suppose, but given that the U.S. was no longer invading anyone’s country, and that I was responsible for an infant now, I went back into the Army.  One thing led to another, and as it turned out I was good at something called special operations, and I ended up making a career of it.  By the time I signed out on terminal leave in December 1995, I had worked in eight places designated “armed conflict areas,” where people who were brown and poor seemed to be the principle targets of these “special” operations.  At some point toward the end, I had decided that plenty of people could look back and say they wished they’d lived differently; and I was just one of them; and that I might salvage something worthwhile from the whole experience by telling the people who had paid me—people who pay taxes—what their money was really being spent to do.

Among other activities, I started writing books.


The Bad Apple

There was nothing more inflammatory in my first book, about the 1994 invasion and occupation of Haiti, than my assertion that Special Operations was a hotbed of racism and reaction.  “Hideous Dream - A Soldier’s Memoir of the US Invasion of Haiti” (Soft Skull Press, 2000) was my personal account of that operation, and I was explicit not only about the significant number of white supremacists in Special Operations but how the attitudes of these extremists connected with the less explicit white male supremacy of white patriarchal American society and defined, in some respects, the attitude taken by U.S. occupation forces in Haiti toward the Haitian population.

The resistance to this allegation was particularly fierce, and not merely from those inside the Special Operations “community,” whose outrage was more public-relations stagecraft than anything else.  There was outrage from people who hadn’t a moment of actual experience in the military at all.  This is an affront to something sacred in the public imaginary of a thoroughly militarized United States: that we are an international beacon of civilized virtue, and that our military is the masculine epitome of that virtue standing between our suburban security and the dark chaos of the Outside.  Questioning the mystique of the armed forces is tantamount to lunacy at best and treason at worst.

This is the reason bad-apple-ism has been the predominant meme of the media and the Pentagon when they are compelled to discuss the stories of torture, rape and murder in Iraq and Afghanistan.  “A few bad apples” committed torture.  “A few bad apples” raped prisoners, fellow female soldiers, and civilians in their homes.  The massacre was not descriptive of the Marine Corps, but the work of “a few bad apples.”  Anyone who wants to be the skunk at this prevarication party need only ask, “How do these bad apples all seem to aggregate into the same units?”

One bad apple was dispensed with on June 11, 2001.  That’s when Timothy McVeigh was given a lethal injection at 7 a.m. in the death chamber of the U.S. federal penitentiary at Terre Haute, Ind.

Frugivorous analogies aside, McVeigh was not the product of a tree or poor storage, but of a culture.  Raised in western New York by a devoutly Catholic father—an autoworker—after his parents divorced when he was 10, Tim McVeigh, like many other white youths who are socially awkward and living in times of economic insecurity, was already reading survivalist and white nationalist literature in his teens.  The mythic-patriarchal absolutism of racial ideology mapped perfectly onto the consciousness of someone raised by a religiously devout male, and the fact that this ideology responded directly to the insecurities of economic and gender destabilization secured McVeigh as an early devotee.

Gore Vidal said that McVeigh “needed a self-consuming cause to define him[self].”  Vidal’s account, “The Meaning of Timothy McVeigh,” ominously printed in Vanity Fair just days before the 9/11 attacks expressed another “self-consuming cause,” noted that McVeigh took his cues from the very government he had worked for as a soldier.  Before McVeigh’s attack in Oklahoma City, the most recent attack by Americans against Americans outside of warfare was the FBI-BATF massacre of an obscure religious commune that was demonized for destruction at Waco, Texas—which McVeigh memorialized by blowing up the Murrah Building on the Waco massacre’s second anniversary.

When McVeigh was interviewed about the “collateral damage” in Oklahoma, he was asked if he felt remorse.  He replied that Truman had never apologized for Hiroshima or Nagasaki.  And the formative moment in Iraq for Tim McVeigh was the order by Major General Barry McCaffrey—the sociopath appointed by Bill Clinton to be the nation’s “drug czar”—to slaughter a seven-mile line of retreating Iraqi soldiers and civilians after the cease-fire in Iraq ... now called the Turkey Shoot.

As the old military motto says, “Trained by the best, kill like the rest.”

Much has been made of McVeigh’s affinity for “The Turner Diaries,” a neo-Nazi novel about a white nationalist guerrilla war in the U.S., written under pseudonym by the late William Pierce.  Less often noted was another formative cultural product for McVey, “Red Dawn,” a silly film about American teenagers organizing an armed resistance to the Soviet occupation of the United States.  While “silly” is a descriptive term for both these cultural products, we cannot assume they are irrelevant.

Next Page: “I believe the case can be made that these young neo-Nazis joining the military, embodying a racial-purity version of military masculinity, are anything except ab-normal.  They are hyper-normal.

Dig last updated on Oct. 3, 2006


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By Conservative Yankee, January 25, 2011 at 10:39 am Link to this comment
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The myth is that we have any choice in this “free” country.  Obama is simply GWB in black-face. We’re still at war in Iraq. We have advanced the War in Afghanistan, our individual liberties here at home are eroding at an even greater level than right after 9/11 We are still borrowing money from Communist China the outsourcing of US jobs continues, the decline of US manufacturing is almost completed, Nothing has been done about illegal immigration, and now the congress is going to get together and sing a round of Kumbyah after the State of the Union tonight.

Government is the problem, not the solution.

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By Night-Gaunt, January 24, 2011 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment

And in 3 years things aren’t any better. In fact the DINO Obama is carrying on from the previous ADmin in policies that are against a Liberal Democratic-Republic. But that is because Obama like the Bushes, Clinton and Reagan are deeply entrenched in the ethos of corporate conservatism. Where the moneyed interests hold sway with every increasing power.

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By just a guy, January 24, 2011 at 5:06 pm Link to this comment
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Isn’t this thread something like 3 yrs old?

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By John Hanks, May 17, 2010 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment
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They steal before, during, and after

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By Conservative Yankee, May 17, 2010 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment
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AZ kid wrote:

“I worry that you found nothing worth learning here.”

I did learn something here I learned this thread isn’t telling me anything worth my while.

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By John Hanks, May 16, 2010 at 6:42 pm Link to this comment
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Typical Nazi propaganda.  Huge lies.  Stuff out of context, etc.  Typical right wing vomit.

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By Conservative Yankee, May 16, 2010 at 3:31 pm Link to this comment
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Well this site has lost any pretense of intelligence.

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By call me roy, May 16, 2010 at 2:37 pm Link to this comment

Stan, you are right to worry about fascism but don’t you think we should be worried about more important matters? Like:

Obama waives ethics rules for eligibility lawyer White House: Restrictions on top attorney ‘not in public interest’. President Obama has waived ethics rules for White House counsel Robert Bauer, his personal and campaign lawyer – and the same attorney who has defended Obama in lawsuits challenging his eligibility to be president.

Next, Obama says America is one of the largest Muslim countries in the world. In an interview with France’s Canal Plus, Obama suggested that the United States might be a Muslim country. “And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world.

Next, Obama Freezes Budget for Program Designed to Stop Terrorists from Getting U.S. Visas
“The visa security process is our first line of defense against terrorists and others who wish to do us harm,” Rep. Lamar Smith, the lead sponsor of the Secure Visas Act, told CNSNews.com. “But under President Obama, new Visa Security Units ground to a halt.”

Next, Obama’s Envoy “Rashad Hussain” to Islamic Bloc Admits Controversial Statements About Supporter of Terror Group.

Next, we have the three Navy SEALs who faced assault charges for capturing one of the most wanted terrorists in Iraq. Why?

Next, President Obama appointed Ron Bloom, “Manufacturing Czar” who cites Chairman Mao as a political guide.

Next, President Obama appointed Anita Dunn, White House Communications Director. She stated in an address to high school students this past June that Chairman Mao Tse-tung was one of the two “philosophers” she most often turns to.

Next, WASHINGTON, Dec. 23 /Christian Newswire/—Christian faith leaders stunned by reports that President Obama would have an ornament of the image of Mao Zedong hanging on the White House Christmas tree.

Next, Valerie Jarrett helped to hire Van Jones, the self admitted Communist.

Next, Valerie Jarrett also recruited Cass Sunstein into the administration. Obama appointed Sunstein as “regulatory czar” to direct the White House Office of Management and Budget’s Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. You remember, this is the guy who wants to establish legal ‘rights’ for livestock, wildlife and pets, which would enable animals to file lawsuits in American courts.

Next, it’s John Brennan, President Obama’s national security deputy, thinks Gitmo jihadi recidivism is “not that bad.”

Next, Obama’s relationship with Anti-Israel activism people like Rob Malley (Foreign Policy Advisor). Malley is the Director of the Middle East/North Africa Program at the International Crisis Group (ICG). Malley’s Camp David propaganda has also become fodder for Palestinians, Arab rejectionists, and anti-Israel activists across the world.

Next, Obama had met the leaders of a collection of Jewish groups, ostensibly to quell their concerns about his approach towards Israel. Barely two weeks later, he gives The Medal of Freedom to Mary Robinson, an enemy of Israel AND the host and mastermind of the Durban Conference (anti-Semitic, anti-Israel). By bestowing of the Medal of Freedom on Mary Robinson it is a slap in the face to the pro-Israel community. 

Next, George Soros a man who has made clear his goal is to break the close bonds between America and Israel; a man who has also been a key financial backer of President Obama’s; Soros is a funder of the ICG through his Open Society Institute; Other members of the Board include Zbigniew Brzezinski (whose anti-Israel credentials are impeccable) and Wesley Clark (who called US support for Israel during the Hezbollah War a “serious mistake”.

Anyone see a pattern here?

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By John Hanks, May 14, 2010 at 5:17 pm Link to this comment
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More red herrings.  Republicans are liars.  “All Republicans are liars, said the Republican”

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By John Hanks, May 14, 2010 at 5:05 pm Link to this comment
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A monolithic socialism (Russia, Germany)is not a good idea because govt. elevates criminal sociopaths to monolithic leaders.  Socialisms should be more task oriented…public utilities, railroads, etc.  Criminal operations should be nationalized (drug war), and then partially privatized (drug stores, etc.)

Mencken was right about goose stepping Americans.

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By Conservative Yankee, May 14, 2010 at 8:07 am Link to this comment
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Toot toot, You actually expected change???  You must be very young, or naive yourself

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By Night-Gaunt, March 18, 2010 at 11:15 am Link to this comment

Green jobs or “green jobs” won’t change the course we are taking. It will just mean, omg, that the empire to come will be cleaner in its Christian warrior evangelizations. Woohoo! Rather like how clean the Empire was in Star Wars. Clean energy is just a tool not an ethos. Understand the difference.

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By John Hanks, February 3, 2009 at 8:26 am Link to this comment
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At least Obama is mature.  He doesn’t speak in slogans.

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By Mike, February 2, 2009 at 7:18 pm Link to this comment
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Omg, Nightgaunt i just read a few day’s ago Obama has created green energy projects, even some Green jobs. Guy’s, when do you think crazy thing’s will start to happen in America?

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By Nightgaunt, December 23, 2008 at 11:29 am Link to this comment
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They last tried in 1934 to take over the USA and failed because they chose the wrong general. [Smedley “Gimlet Eye” Butler instead of Gen. Douglas MacArther]Butler informed FDR of the plot and the very richest and whitest and most in the way of the types this article talks about. [For his troubles, Butler was fired by FDR.] No one was prosecuted. It was suppressed and some of them went on to support and deal with the Axis for financial gain including IBM, Ford Motor Co. and many banks some with a direct connexion to the Bush family.

This same group with many new members bide their time to build up their forces and their control of many aspects of our lives. Dominionism in its largest meaning is a religious, racist, military, macho, the rich are anointed by God to be rich and in charge to take over first the USA then the rest of the world and prepare it for God’s return. No rapture or Armaggedon War in this version. It has more in common the Inquisition and the Crusades than with the Beatitudes.

We have been living in an inverted tyranny, where we have the outward appearance of a free democratic-republic but it has become more of a facade than a reality. As per PNAC, the USA will be the base from which these would be evangelical conquerors would launch their various attacks both overt and covert. [They must prepare the earth for God’s return, he won’t come back until then.] This cabal is real and well funded and mostly hidden. They want and old style theocracy backed by 21st century military/surveillance enforced racially separated society. A Christian version of Iran as shorthand.

I am worried that President Obama won’t be much of a change except in appearance. He may implement some green energy projects while maintaining the fascist/theocratic elements we have in our gov’t at this time.

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By hetzer, January 22, 2008 at 8:40 am Link to this comment

Anger and Hope Can Betray

It took me awhile to figure out the difference between anger and hatred.  Anger can be very dangerous because it can rule a person to such an extent that it blinds them.  Anger needs some sort of hope or expectation of justice or retribution in order to stay alive.  That is why there are so many people that are always angry.  Some of the worst are liberals or fundamentalists on a conversion jag.  It is sad to depend upon someone else’s conformity for relief.

Hope has two dimensions.  Ordinary hope is a contract with the future that is almost always betrayed.  Ordinary hope is almost always a setup.  If you do this, I will give you a pellet.  If you do this some evil will be avoided. (Emily Dickinson wrote a poem about the other form of hope that is so close that it is habitual and organic.  That kind of hope is real).

Hope and anger produces a strange form of cowardice.  It is the stock and trade of the media.

The most effective and dangerous soldier abandons all hope and anger.  He becomes most effective after about a month, and then the inevitable collapse begins.  The soldierly virtues are universal.  Nobody needs a weapon to have them.  The Sikhs were the best of Gandhi’s “soldiers” because they accepted their violent end as a matter of course.  It was their calm despair, contempt and hatred which was remarkable.

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By Michael Shaw, October 8, 2007 at 9:16 pm Link to this comment

104672 Hey John! Have you seen this? http://www.nworeport.com/waralert.htm

As EC said in another post, with all it taking for Bush to declare marshal law being another 9/11, we are on the verge of a world wide alert while nuclear materials from Russia go to South Carolina and the military enacts the largest simulated terror alert of it’s kind, an attack with dirty bombs on US cities.

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By John Hanks, October 4, 2007 at 11:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I appreciate all of your comments.  I hope you are spending some time every day standing by the road with a left-wing sign or that you have some signs in the windows of your car.  Don’t worry about being right.  Just go ahead.

How about: “Have you had your nose put to the wall today?” or “Hitler has to slap you in the face.”

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By Michael Shaw, October 4, 2007 at 10:46 am Link to this comment

103807 Hey PICO concerning END GAME. Under the broad definitions of who a terrorist is, you can easily conclude that virtually anyone could end up in one of these detention centers. Bush can declare anyone he wishes a terrorist. Anyone who doesn’t support him like Amnesty International, members of the anti-war movement or the ACLU.

As for these plans stretching back to Goldwater, the guy who wanted to nuke North Vietnam, I remember as a kid my father, who taught gunnery in the US Army, once made a point about all the big stadiums that were sprouting up across the country at the time. It was around the time of massive peace and civil rights protests and these new stadiums were sprouting up everywhere. Dad had an analytical mind. He once said if there were ever massive problems in this country like majority dissent, a few guys with automatic weapons could easily guard tens of thousands of people. So beyond a forum for spectator sports, these structures could easily serve a duel purpose.

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By Michael Shaw, October 4, 2007 at 10:30 am Link to this comment

Here is some more on Bush style fascism via Truthout and the NY Times.

SECRET US ENDORSEMENT OF TORTURE REVEALED
http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/100407J.shtml

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By www.nazilieskill.us, October 3, 2007 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment
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An important part of the Fascist mind is that it always conceives of things in terms of a game with winners and losers.  These filth will soon find that they are dealing with an occupation - much like Iraq.

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By Pico, October 3, 2007 at 8:21 pm Link to this comment

So, I take it you all are aware of the ENDGAME,
as the Department of Homeland Security itself has named it?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/30/74155/1739

And you see no relation between the ENDGAME and The Shock Doctrine? Is that correct?

Or perhaps you don’t think it’s worth discussing in the present fascism context?

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By Michael Shaw, October 3, 2007 at 2:11 am Link to this comment

Naomi Klein is the best! She’s brilliant! I had heard   her speech on a Democracy Now a while back. Truer words have never been spoken!

It doesn’t look like this administration has any intention to seeking a “third way” as Roosevelt had in giving us The New Deal to stave off the alternatives of communism or fascism. The only deal we can expect from them is more of the same. Unfettered capitalism(Corporatism),corporate feudalism and cashing in on fear, war and disaster to keep us all down and under control.

I see it in the idea of massive homelessness. Once people are unincorporated from the system they are powerless and without voice or identity unless of course they eventually end up in prison, or better still, a labor camp.

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By Jay Mick, October 3, 2007 at 12:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Jay Mick, the revolutions creator, is back.

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By Pico, October 1, 2007 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

Hi John, Annon,

Would strongly encourage you to go here and read, ASAP.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/9/30/74155/1739
If the link doesn’t work, email me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) and I’ll send you the story. I don’t think there’s any more urgent priority for us all than to read that and keep up with it, and to read Shock Doctrine. With these pieces of info, the veils fall from the eyes. What has seemed to be incompetence is disclosed for what it actually is.

Annon, it goes back farther than that even, to Goldwater, for instance, and most definately to U Chicago in the 60s and 70s, and certainly to Reagan. I guess I was thinking when I wrote that just in terms of high-visibility “playing out,” as in direct hits on the US Constitution and the unilateral expansion of the president’s powers.

Cordially—
Pico at http://www.wildchihuahuas.blogspot.com

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By John Hanks, October 1, 2007 at 7:19 am Link to this comment
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Nazi crook tactics (the use of force and fraud) leads to helpless anger and fear and then demoralization.  Only a habitual black hatred can cut through the knot.

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By Annon, September 30, 2007 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment
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103559 by Pico on 9/29 at 9:25 pm

“...it repeats, and it’s been playing out here for 6 years.

1993 to 2007 is 14 years!

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By John Hanks, September 30, 2007 at 7:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It’s on my list.  I’m sure Kissinger figured prominently.  We didn’t import all those Nazi at the end of World War II for nothing.  Meanwhile, I just keep on signing.

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By Pico, September 29, 2007 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

If you’re concerned now, read The Shock Doctrine, by Naomi Klein. It’s the most important docuemnt on American history since Ellsberg’s Pentagon Papers. It explains exactly why what we think is incompetence actually is intentional, strategic, and, in its appalling context, makes perfect sense.  It explains and documents the University of Chicago Economics Department’s and the CIA’s involvements in the bloody carnages ushered in by Pinochet in Chile and his counterparts in Indonesia, Argentina, Uruguay, and other places. The pattern is clear, it repeats, and it’s been playing out here for 6 years, and the people playing it are self-defined subscribers to the same doctrine for the same reasons. It’s numbingly terrifying, but it’s also pretty damned catalyzing.

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By John Hanks, September 29, 2007 at 8:38 pm Link to this comment
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It is still hard for me to admit that there is a distinct possibility that we might be murdered in our doorways or sent to a camp.  (Any Republican camp would be a death camp because they are totally incompetent to even run one of those.)  The only want to relate to this is to point out our fears to anyone who will listen and to taken an open stand against the filth while there is still time.  Why are so many liberals still doing basically nothing?  Surely they know about the history of the Third Reich at least, if not all the other dictators that have assailed this planet.  Do they still think that it will blow over like a bad patch?  The Nazis have infiltrated and subverted every worthwhile institution in this country.  One never really knows personally, but I would rather die at the beginning than linger with such lazy worthless cowards until the end.

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By Pico, September 29, 2007 at 8:00 pm Link to this comment

Re #102872—
John =
I understand pschological distancing and gallows humor, and use it all myself, a lot. I’m not quite to the place where I’m ready to accept torture in a death camp as a good place to be when the Nazis come, and I’d be willing to bet you aren’t either, truth be told.

Hundreds of thousands of people just like us were disappeared in Chile, Argentina, and other South American countries thanks to theories of Milton Friedman and instruction from the CIA. Chile was a democracy for 160 years. Nobody thought it could happen there. The point of torture wasn’t only to break them or merely to be rid of them. It was to force them to do the one thing that they couldn’t live with doing: betray their friends.  In Argentina, most of the victims were between 16 and 30. They wanted to cleanse the next generations.

All the rhetoric, apparatus, law, and “justification” is in place here, and now we know the reason for it all.

I’ll be more than curious to see if the Democrats win in 2008 now that Naomi Klein has laid out the game plan.  I won’t be viewing it with equanimity then, either.

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By John Hanks, September 26, 2007 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

When Nazis take over, a death camp is as good a place to be as any other.  Surely every Republican death camp will be so due to their total indifference to human suffering and their total incompetence.

I’m going to keep up my roadside signing until they hall me off.

These Nazis have worked tirelessly to take over a ship that will sink as long as the human race fails to develop and act on some smarts.  We have a perfect storm of catastrophes coming, which can hardly be dealt with by bogus sermons and public relations campaigns.  In every practical sense, these half baked fools have failed on every front, and everything they do is only to cover up a previous blunder.

The Nazis didn’t last as long as the Weimer Republic they overthrew.  They were done for as soon as they invaded Poland.  I hope that happens in the same way to the filth that have stolen power here.

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By Michael Shaw, September 26, 2007 at 9:10 am Link to this comment

102615 Pico I believe you are right and I also believe the rise in neo-fascist groups across the nation is no coincidence either. There are certain ties to Christian elements, there is no denying it, lest we forget the KKK.

While “we” devout all our time to spying on everybody, the neo fascist movement continues to grow unscathed. It’s all about Al queda and killing Arabs yet no one seems to recall that right wing elements were responsible for the Oklahoma City bombings and that one in Florida which took place during those mysterious anthrax attacks, when the patriot act was signed into law.

As for the anthrax, we were told initially by the FBI the stuff sent to Daschle was military grade and could only have come from one of our own military labs. After finding a former disgruntled employee dead from an apparent suicide and admitting anthrax was missing from a military lab, all the investigations closed without any suspects and has remained closed ever since.

I remember once getting an email from a guy formerly in the military who said that right wing fascist elements were infiltrating our military and had been doing so for years. He warned of a fascist takeover years ago. I thought he was crazy then. Now I’m not so sure. 

I also take stock in Naomi Klein. She recently debated Alan Greenspan on Democracy Now over Blackwater.

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By Pico, September 26, 2007 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

In case you haven’t already seen it, Consortium has written that Vietnam war hero, Daniel Ellsberg, warned in a speech at American University that a coup has already occurred here. He says that it is imperative that we stop a war on Iran. If we don’t, we will have completed the final step in becoming a police state.  See the full speech transcript here: http://www.consortiumnews.com/2007/092607a.html

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By Pico, September 25, 2007 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment

To Stan Goff: Wonderful piece. I’m telling everybody I know about it.

I have just posted on my blog a two-part series on how the US went from being a constitutional democracy to its present state as nearly a Christo-Fascist empire. This isn’t just shameless horn-tooting on my part. I’m letting you know because I think some of you might find some new info/history there. Those of you who posted on the “Checkbook Imperialism” thread will have seen a rough draft. 

The piece is directly related to this thread on fascism. It traces the growth of the secular establishment Rightwing take-over and the rise of the Christo-Fascist Right and it’s seizing of the GOP to two specific developments in the 1970s.

Thanks to you for some fascinating and important material here.

If you haven’t already begun to read Naomi Klein’s Shock Doctrine, read it. Without that information, we’re flying blind.

If you visit my blog (URL below), please let me know. You can email me at .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

If you have a blog of your own, please include your URL. I’d like to visit. Thanks. http://www.wildchihuahuas.blogspot.com

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By John Hanks, September 20, 2007 at 10:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’m afraid that isn’t enough, though it is good prep. work.  I expect a pretext that is more Hollywood.  How about a terrible massacre Custer Style, or a excruciating terror attack here.  The Battleship Maine and 911 show how easy a big show is to put together.

The problem with all of this is that a lot of Boobus Americanus is getting suspicious,  so the effect will be muted.  There might not be as huge a display of American flags as before.

However, I won’t be surprise too much by anything.  Human weakness and gullibility is a pit without a bottom.

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By Michael Shaw, September 20, 2007 at 8:53 am Link to this comment

nazilieskill, speaking of the media, what do you think of this?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7004801.stm

Seems just like a week ago when Bush said Qud forces were operating in Iraq. Now he has his “smoking gun.”

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By www.nazilieskill.us, September 19, 2007 at 7:56 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

My prejudices are Catholic.  I pretty much hate all human groups from schools, to Baptists, to governments, and even to The National Model Railroad Association.  All of them are like dirty fish tanks in which people swim about with not knowledge of all filth that surrounds them.

The media is perhaps the worst human group of all.  It fills our minds with 5th grade inanities all day long until they become hardened templates.  They make our elections last for years so they can milk contributions, and of course they defend themselves with constant commissions and most omissions of information.

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By John Hanks, September 19, 2007 at 3:16 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I guess we will find out what happens when crooks put together a protection racket, and then they find out that the whole neighborhood is pissed.  When your crookery gets you to the point where you can only make your last nuclear play…

Like I said, I knew I was dead when the filth killed the Wellstones so long aqo.

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By Michael Shaw, September 19, 2007 at 3:10 pm Link to this comment

“I can understand why Zionists might pull some tricks to keep the defense swag flowing.  After all, defense spending is always the mother load protection racket.”

John that’s exactly how I see it. To ensure it’s hold on power the right wing in Israel is not so unlike our own neocons. They need fear and they need enemies to continue the charade. The only problem is of course that by creating more and more enemies, they only bring the notion in an eventual end to Israel. The same goes for the United States.

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By Conservative Yankee, September 19, 2007 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment
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101340 by John Hanks on 9/19 at 9:23 am

“There is nothing worse than an over-populated desert country that is running out of water and is ruled by crooks.”

Like Nevada?  Or Arizona?

Sorry, couldn’t resist the temptation.

Here in Maine we have plenty of fresh water, six major rivers crisscross the State… But the assholes who run the place have decided that the best use of this once clear fresh resource is to use it as a corporate dumping ground.  So the
Penobscot - 350 miles
Androscoggin - 175 miles
Saco - 104 miles
are too polluted to drink, and the Kennebec - 150 miles actually smells!

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By John Hanks, September 19, 2007 at 10:23 am Link to this comment
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There is just so little that we really know about AIPAC, Neocons, Zionists, and Jews.  I suspect that if Jews do cover for the crooks in some way that it is much in the same way that Boston Irish covered for the IRA - not knowing just how crooked they were.

I can understand why Zionists might pull some tricks to keep the defense swag flowing.  After all, defense spending is always the mother load protection racket.

Israel has plenty of nukes which gives it the “right to exist”,  but it is in big trouble in every environmental way.  There is nothing worse than an over-populated desert country that is running out of water and is ruled by crooks.

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By Michael Shaw, September 19, 2007 at 10:00 am Link to this comment

Well when it comes to Zionism there is a long history to that, including the Dreyfuss affair in Paris. The concept of Zionism was an invention of European Jews, not Israelites. Also there is a difference between those who believe in Israel’s right to exist and those who believe they have a God given right to butcher Palestinians and steal their land. In fact it could be argued that right wing Jews are not pro-Israel.

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By John Hanks, September 18, 2007 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment
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I would be glad to admit I was a traitor, or a communist of anything else, if I could just get one clear shot at one of them with a bayonet.

Most Americans think Zionists are Israeli patriots, when they are really just vicious crooks.  They managed to turn Israel into the perfect concentration camp.

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By Michael Shaw, September 18, 2007 at 1:03 pm Link to this comment

101035

Seems that FOX News and Ann(the dude) Coulter have done a pretty good job in that over the Petraeus hearings with their usual “fair and balanced” analysis. They call anyone opposed to the war traitors and soldier haters yet the democrats are made to apologize for the moveon.org ad! Where is an act of God when you need one? Since the dems(wimps) are doing little that’s probably what it will take to silence these right wing aholes!
http://foxattacks.com/blog/13034-fox-s-balanced-analysis-of-the-petraeus-hearings?utm_source=rgemail

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By 1drees, September 18, 2007 at 11:27 am Link to this comment
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God Help Humanity against the American-Zionist attack, i know that iraq, iran & others will Survive the Zionist attack but at a heavy human cost (so far) But I Wish the Americans Had done better and prevented slaughter of ordinary people in iraq and afghanistan. Good Luck to Humanity nless Zionism is eliminated.

ZIONISTS:Ones who believe they are the “only” humans(God’s"Chosen ones”)& rest is “Trash” to be consumed / used.
MODUSOPERENDI:start as business and bilk the populations while laying down Organisations that are for (fake)trade & “our protection” whose actual purpose is surveillance & Harrassement of “nonZIONIST”. they keep screaming “Hitler’s holocaust, Hitler’s holocaust” while they been doing WORSE since 1948 in their Fanatic Fantasyland called Isreal aka “shitty little state”, armed with 300 nuclear bombs that they dont want to talk
about.(these are peaceful people!lol) GOAL: creation of some nutty global empire based on pureness of “Chosen Ones”
ENEMIES: anyone that does not Comply with them or their propaganda (is also branded an Antisemite & thoroughly harassed)
NETWORK: global and very developed, a well oiled machine bent on EVIL. and lately has been observed that they maintain ahuge negative presence on the internet and as everyone knows the MSM is certainly Zionistic propagandist.
FEARS: “EVERYBODY is out to get us because we are GOOD!” this is the typical brainwash and then they
WHITEWASH real issues with PATRIOTIC LIES.
Also intresting to note that Mr Vanunu who stated the true state of Israeli Nukes rots in jails since 2 decades for speaking the truth, hence we can safely conclude that TRUTH is definately not a passion in Israel or with any of the ZIONISTS.
so GOD HELP ALL THAT COME IN CONTACT WITH ZIONISTS!

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By John Hanks, September 18, 2007 at 6:32 am Link to this comment
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I think this country is full of Wellstones without his energy and smarts.  It is the duty of every crook to keep them demoralized and confused or, if necessary, dead.  They’ve convinced America to go on H.L. Menckens   political picnic so they can skip the hamburgers in preference for the flies.

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By Michael Shaw, September 17, 2007 at 10:28 pm Link to this comment

Well John they sure have kept us on our toes haven’t they? I was a fan of Paul Wellstone too! It’s easy to admire integrity.

IE…all we can do is fight! You betcha! As Churchill once said, “...we will never surrender!”

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By John Hanks, September 17, 2007 at 5:55 pm Link to this comment
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Wow.  You are a thinking person all right.  Maybe that is the only thing that the Republican filth have given us.  We sure have a lot to think about.

A good combat soldier knows when he is dead, and I figured we were dead after they murdered the Wellstones so many years ago.  We have been totally bushwacked by an army of rich traitors, so all we can do is fight and prolong the fight until it is finally over.

I hate these scum to the depth of my soul, especially now that they are planning to start World War III to cover their tracks and fill their treasuries even more.  At last all the Republican lynchings are coming home.

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By Michael Shaw, September 17, 2007 at 3:39 pm Link to this comment

I’d like to add that Friedman’s philosophy is not unlike domestic spying. It works fine when the overseers have all of our best interests in mind. In either case we know the idea in that is laughable.

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By Michael Shaw, September 17, 2007 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment

PS John, I think H.L Mencken would have had a field day if he were still alive! I am a Mencken fan too! He attacked everybody and most of what he had to say made a lot of sense. “America, the largest collection of goose stepping morons you’ll ever see anywhere, rallying around a single flag.” If he felt that way then, imagine what he’d have to say today!?!

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By Michael Shaw, September 17, 2007 at 3:21 pm Link to this comment

Well John I’ve tried to draw a clear line. If you’ve read any other of my posts I think you’ll gain an understanding. I do in fact agree with much of what you and others are posting in here. I do try to be as diplomatic as possible.

My last conversation(as you know)was over “being in this together” or “every man for himself.” I believe no man is an island and I also believe that in many ways, “every man for himself” is what has contributed to many of the problems we face today. That said, it doesn’t mean I disrespect the notion in being your own man. 

I am not a Libertarian, though I value some of their philosophy. I am a registered democrat but consider myself more so as an independent. I am a progressive. I oppose this current administration. Believe the military industrial complex was one of our biggest blunders! I’m a fan of Dennis Kucinich and John Edwards. I see the FED as a fascade. I appall the McKinley Era as much as I do its current bastard child, I’m against the war in Iraq and the war on terror and the war on drugs. I’m a member of the ACLU and support Amnesty International and the Sierra Club among others. I see FOX News as the right arm of the RNC and corporate media in general as a joke. I applaud folks like Stan Goff, Amy Goodman, Robert Fisk and others. I believe in capitalism but not unfettered capitalism. Hope this makes a good start!

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By Michael Shaw, September 17, 2007 at 2:52 pm Link to this comment

nazilieskill

I’m glad you appreciate the truth in this and your handle itself is appropriate!

The interview mentions Nixon and how these plans invented by Friedman and other Chicago economists were tested out in Allende’s Chile and other fascist states. They wanted Nixon to implement them here, just as Bush has done(both here and in Iraq). But Nixon saw he would lose his bid in reelection, thus the wage/price freeze. The whole idea(as you know) is to profit from disaster. Create the chaos, then profit by it, playing mind-games on the general population as you go along.

Funny too how the only reason Nixon didn’t implement it was because it threatened his seat in office. This takes, “To thine own self be true” to another dimension! When common decencies are overridden by profit margins we are all in big trouble.

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By Michael Shaw, September 17, 2007 at 2:34 pm Link to this comment

Well John that’s an interesting and well written article and I see no need in your having to apologize for it.

I guess I do fall in well with all those other starry eyed liberals who believe there is still hope. I also believe education is a key, though not the entire answer. As the old saying goes, “Necessity is the mother of all inventions.” Of course and in this case, time will tell us as to what might happen when these necessities are gone. I do know that in the event of a cataclysmic meltdown there will be the need of many to look to others for guidance. Of course education in itself is not a prerequisite to good. But it will ultimately take the most intelligent and compassionate of us to see us through.

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By www.nazilieskill.us, September 17, 2007 at 1:49 pm Link to this comment
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There is a tiny bit of wisdom in Friedman’s philosophy, but how could anyone be so naieve as to ignore the fact that unfettered capitalism is quickly taken over by crooks.  Then the crooks get rich on ever sort of found or man-made disaster.  I agree with all of you.

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By Michael Shaw, September 17, 2007 at 1:22 pm Link to this comment

Beyond racism, white supremacy, the militarization of culture and other fine examples pointed out by Mr.Goff, I believe what is emphasized in this Naomi Klein interview is just as tangible. In fact fascism and disaster capitalism walk hand in hand. Can anyone say “Milton Friedman”?
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/1411235

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By John Hanks, September 17, 2007 at 11:36 am Link to this comment
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Michael,  Let me apologize in advance for submitting part of an article which I sent in to Thomas Paine.  I think it is possible to win a “revolution” through developing a nation with smarts.  In a funny way, the Reagan coup came about because of some dumb delusions.  Perhaps a nation with smarts would act like an immune system.  By smarts, I don’t mean schooling of course.

.09.17.07

> Article for Thomas Paine

Crooks, Suckers, and Lazy Cowards
>
> I have always wanted to have a good argument with
> Thomas Hartmann on Air America Radio (sucker).  But
> the constraints of money and time make it
> impossible.  He exemplifies the best of the liberal
> tradition in his broad intelligence, sensivity and his respect for facts and ideas.
> Compared to know nothings like Rush Limbaugh and Ann
> Coulter he is like a cool shower after an encounter with a six pack of stale vomit.
>
> The only problem with this picture is that Rush
> Limbaugh and Ann Coulter (crooks) are right about
> the human race while Hartmann is dead wrong
> (sucker).  These crooks know that the human race consists of
> crooks, suckers, and lazy cowards, while Hartmann
> thinks that it is good and even educable in important ways.  Liberals
believe that people are moral actors, but
> experience shows us that nothing could be further
> from the truth.  Despite overwhelming evidence to
> the contrary, liberals still give lip service to the idea that people are good.
>
> Hartmann thinks that the founding fatheads (crooks)
> thought well of men and their potential, while I think they were just the opposite.  I think that the
> best of them, including Jefferson,  were suspicious of both themselves and
> others.  That is why they went to great pains to approve a
> Constitution that would set one institution against
> another in a sort of perpetual greedy gridlock.  Of course, after all this work,
> they gave themselves a generous tip and the right to
> steal by doing nothing to balance the power of money
> or property (crooks).  This omission has led to one catastrophe after another from the Civil War to commercial television.
>
>


But, I digress.
Why does it matter whether one thinks well or ill of
> mankind?  Is it true that liberals are starry-eyed
> idealists that think a better class of humans can be
> produced in classrooms (suckers)?  Or is it also
> true that Conservatives (crooks) view man as
> depraved and therefore a ripe target for every sort
> of scam and contempt?  I can only reply that I have
> always been a liberal, but I fail to entertain any
> hope for the world, this country, or anyone in it.
> It is possible to have the cynical vision of H. L.
> Mencken without becoming a snobby blockhead or
> hypocrite (smarts).  It is possible to get rid of the crooks, without thinking that we haven’t asked for everything we get.
>
> Republicans can walk and chew gum, but they rarely
> compare and contrast anything, since all major ideas have been set in concrete since 5th grade.  They seem
> inherently incapable of entertaining more than one
> idea at a time.  It is this lazy ignorance
that makes them do their politics of
> destruction with no sense of blowback.  They are so afraid of loosing their
> stolen wealth (crooks) that they try to demoralize
> an ignorant and cowardly population so that they actually think they a morally better by not voting.
  This crookery works because Republicans
> prey on every human weakness.  They mine Pride,
> Envy, Sloth, Anger, Cowardice, and Lust with gay
> abandon in or out of the political season.  In
> short, they know that weak emotions lead, while
> thoughts just tag along. They particularly like to exploit moralism and moralizing because it is the lazy man’s way of feeling superior to everyone else.
(End on next page)

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By Michael Shaw, September 17, 2007 at 11:21 am Link to this comment

100772 Believe me John I certainly do not wish to see a revolution. I merely mentioned it because anything with historical significance can and usually does rear its head eventually. Just as fascism emerged in Italy and Germany so too we see disturbing signs of it here in America.

What amazes me is how many people it seems have forgotten that this nation was created in revolution. It began when we dumped the tea of the world’s largest corporation in Boston Harbor and when Patrick Henry told King George to give us liberty or death. Today our liberties are threatened and these threats closely resemble the very things our forefathers back then were committed to fight against.

Eventually all tyrannies fall. Usually after much bloodshed and suffering. The sad part is that as soon as one tyranny is disposed, another one emerges in its place.

I’d prefer to see a peaceful revolution, if any. Gandhi accomplished this task and was then sold out by the subsequent politicians. Of course on these grounds you’re right! Any revolution, even a peaceful one will be an uphill battle. Especially since the very institutions who obliterate our liberties own and control practically everything. The real trick too of course is how to sustain such a revolution and educate our people into realizing why we fought it in the first place.

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By John Hanks, September 17, 2007 at 11:13 am Link to this comment
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Michael,  Why don’t you draw a clear line in the sand, and then defend your side, when we try to cross it?

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By Michael Shaw, September 17, 2007 at 11:04 am Link to this comment

100821

Well I certainly didn’t mean to offend. If I jumped to conclusions I apologize. But I still say we are, all of us in this together. As human beings, the only thing that separates us are our own indifferences and if we are ever to solve or at least attempt to solve the many problems in this world we will have to overcome these differences and tolerate one and other before it is too late.

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By John Hanks, September 17, 2007 at 6:49 am Link to this comment
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Children, children.  What is it with the squabbling and righteous indignation?  There are no righteous people on this planet including both of you.

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By FFURKS, September 17, 2007 at 5:18 am Link to this comment
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100769 by Michael Shaw on 9/16 at 4:54 pm

“Well FFurks it takes two to argue about nothing. You initially jumped into my post not vice versa. I merely answered it and now I’m jumping at conclusions. Well I guess so since beyond you obvious disinterest in country and people, I know very little about with whom I’m speaking or why you’ve drawn these conclusions.”

See, you have it wrong yet again. I have no “argument” with you… Can’t, don’t know you.  I WAS involved in what I thought was a dialog. As to “jumping in to your post” Silly me, I thought that was what this board was about. I won’t “bother” you again.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, September 16, 2007 at 6:09 pm Link to this comment
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I guess I’m as confused as Michael Shaw seems to be, but I can still follow the drift of things.

Michael brought up the subject of revolution, but I’m afraid that that is almost impossible.  If the Bushies destroy our institutions, they won’t come back because the destruction will be approved by the crooks, suckers and lazy cowards that make up our population.  We could have an insurgency that might last for many years, but is a permanent war worth it?  Look at Israel.  They have been at war since 1948 (at least) and now they are almost completely ruled by crooks and paranoids.

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By Michael Shaw, September 16, 2007 at 5:54 pm Link to this comment

Well FFurks it takes two to argue about nothing. You initially jumped into my post not vice versa. I merely answered it and now I’m jumping at conclusions. Well I guess so since beyond you obvious disinterest in country and people, I know very little about with whom I’m speaking or why you’ve drawn these conclusions.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, September 16, 2007 at 4:19 pm Link to this comment
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It looks like the Bush filth are about to save us from the Mullahs of Iran.  They especially like the idea of either nuking us or nuking Iran to get the vicious farce started.  Bush still has a long way to catch up to Hitler, but with nukes he might just get there.

Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Fuherer

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By FFURKS, September 16, 2007 at 8:00 am Link to this comment
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100697 by Michael Shaw on 9/16 at 5:19 am

“So you’ll move to Canada? And of course the possibility in a revolution in your homeland is not important?

I’ve been to Canada a few times in my day. Even thought about moving there. Still think about it sometimes, especially over the possibility of marshal law being declared. However the act in your simply having to uproot and move there is an affect upon you is it not? Also what about friends and family who might not be fortunate enough to follow you? It seems obvious you consider yourself in the minority, at least based upon your assumptions of French and Jewish or Russian immigration. Have you ever considered the scope in something like this? You might have to move to Geneva to escape it.”

You make a bunch of assumptions when discussing my situation. Some of these may be correct, but others are patently false.

Families with a long history of running from fascism know that to stand and fight when the masses go mad, is to stand and be exterminated. To old to fight the entire country, and self-serving enough not to be a martyr.

I wish you luck!

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, September 16, 2007 at 6:50 am Link to this comment
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I understand the temptation to run, but there really is no where to really hide.  If Hitler and Tojo had won World War II, there would have been no refugees left alive.

We have to act with the wisdom of dead soldiers.

When the Wellstones were murdered I knew that we were dealing with a vicious Nazi takeover.  I knew I was dead, so I started putting signs in the windows of my car and I started standing with signs by the side of the road.  (If you are not willing to look like a fool to others…)  I have been motivated mainly by a black hatred and that is reflected in my signs.  “Bush filth did 911 to steal trillions”  “Republicans always return to their vomit” are standard fair.  Since I live in Naziland Wyoming, I didn’t expect to last longer than a week.  Now I have been doing it for four years.  (Republicans deal in one dimensional slogans.  They don’t know how to compare and contrast or how to deal with two ideas at the same time.)

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By Michael Shaw, September 16, 2007 at 6:19 am Link to this comment

99949

So you’ll move to Canada? And of course the possibility in a revolution in your homeland is not important?

I’ve been to Canada a few times in my day. Even thought about moving there. Still think about it sometimes, especially over the possibility of marshal law being declared. However the act in your simply having to uproot and move there is an affect upon you is it not? Also what about friends and family who might not be fortunate enough to follow you? It seems obvious you consider yourself in the minority, at least based upon your assumptions of French and Jewish or Russian immigration. Have you ever considered the scope in something like this? You might have to move to Geneva to escape it.

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By FFURKS, September 16, 2007 at 5:43 am Link to this comment
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100649 by JJ on 9/16 at 10:39 am

“... Imperialism is wrong. As is racism & prejudice…”
Agreed, but it seems that no one wants to admit that these problems, and the other huge problems like overpopulation and environmental degradation are symptoms of the disease called capitalism.

despite what we’ve all been led to believe “wealth” is not “created” it is just moved.  Wealth is based (currently) on the resources of one small planet, therefore finite.

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By JJ, September 15, 2007 at 5:39 pm Link to this comment
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Goff was good at Huffpo. He is correct, Imperialism is wrong. As is racism & prejudice. Iraq fiasco & the fake Islamic threat, always used by the neo-cons to justify huge Defense budget. Worst are the Lieberman’s, Guiliani’s & the rest of these chickenhawks.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, September 12, 2007 at 10:04 am Link to this comment
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Crooks start and win every war and every violent revolution. That doesn’t mean that I wouldn’t run a bayonet through a few Republicans I know.

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By FFURKS, September 12, 2007 at 6:07 am Link to this comment
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#99867 by Michael Shaw on 9/11 at 4:02 pm

“When societal problems are either ignored or enhanced and they get to the point of no return, IE the French and Russian Revolutions, ultimately everyone within the boundaries of that society suffers”

Except the French who moved to Canada, New Orleans, and England, the Russians who moved to New York, St. Paul and San Francisco.

I live 13 miles from the Canadian border and can walk that in three hours on a bad day!  Sometime when you get a chance look at a map of Canada (as an isolated country, not on a hemisphereic map) also know that 90% of the Canadian population lives within 100 miles of the US border.

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By Michael Shaw, September 11, 2007 at 5:02 pm Link to this comment

FFurks

When societal problems are either ignored or enhanced and they get to the point of no return, IE the French and Russian Revolutions, ultimately everyone within the boundaries of that society suffers, including kings, aristocrats and captains of industry. What makes you believe you’re immune? We are in this together and if we’re not now, then we damn well soon better be.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, September 10, 2007 at 12:57 pm Link to this comment
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Every time you take on a funda-nazi, you validate the Christians who don’t share their anti-Christ beliefs.  The validation is much more important.  Comfort the Afflicted (Christians), and Afflict the Comfortable funda-nazis.

Keep going.  Just keep on going.

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By SLYKIDO, September 10, 2007 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment
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There are good Christyians who are confronting the monsters in their own religion. Some are beginning to act like Christ again. They have awakened.

The MSM will not report on it, but it’s happening. Soldiers are waking up too.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, September 3, 2007 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment
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I’ve lived in Wyoming for 30 years and there is very little individualism here.  Everyone just gives it lip service, since they all think alike.  Basically, they are happy deadbeats who hate paying taxes but love to live on the corporate dole.

Bush did one thing.  I used to believe in a mixed economy, but now I’m a socialist, especially when it comes to important or large enterprises.

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By FFURKS, September 2, 2007 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment
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#98153 by Michael Shaw on 9/01 at 8:43 pm

“We are in this together”

No, we’re not!

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By Michael Shaw, September 1, 2007 at 9:43 pm Link to this comment

98111

Well rugged individualism is always more favorable to those with the most. The days of hunting for your food and digging plowshares is over. We are in this together, plain and simple though I highly agree with you that Cheney and Bush are shills and it takes guts to stand up to tyranny.

As for the SUV folks needing humbling, what about the many millions who have long ago lost out in the races with the Smith’s and Jones’? As usual they will be hit the hardest to no fault of their own.

When people get hungry they get mean. Revolution is not a mute footnote in history. If we ignore the plights of our brethren then we’ll get what we deserve too!

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By FFURKS, September 1, 2007 at 1:24 pm Link to this comment
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98091 by Michael Shaw on 9/01 at 8:46 am

“But ‘rugged individualism’(as if Bush and Cheney are rugged) is what has gotten us into trouble in the first place”

No, I strongly disagree.  “rugged individualism” is standing up to power, and speaking truth.

Bush and Cheney are not “rugged individualists” but corporate shills. When money becomes the goal, individuals suffer.

Property rights for homeowners is different from Corporate property rights.

As to the “economic downturn” which you suggest is about to arrive… maybe our soft pampered SUV/American Idol society needs some tough times.

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By Michael Shaw, September 1, 2007 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

98043 Well John I am aware of who Noam Chomsky is. He hails from my hometown of Philadelphia. In fact I like and respect him. At one time he was the most cited intellectual in the world. Today I believe he is 6th. If I were ever to vote Libertarian it would be more so from his angle.

As for the other side, you might as well vote republican. In fact that is what most of the other side does anyway. So frankly I don’t see how voting Libertarian will save us and solve all our problems as someone else in here suggested. I especially cannot see it in the event of a major economic crisis which seems to be well on the way. I understand the reasoning behind spending money to steal money, the rationalizing behind the call in eliminating big government. But “rugged individualism”(as if Bush and Cheney are rugged) is what has gotten us into trouble in the first place and if a major depression becomes a reality, ignoring the many millions of us who will be suddenly placed in a crises situation will not make our troubles go away. It will only make them worse.

I also have some problems with property rights because in the end, those with the most property will have the most rights. I picture a munitions manufacturer upstream dumping toxic pollutants at will and no one down stream having a voice. Thanks to Bush that is already the case. I do agree that in many ways government is too intrusive. Especially and obviously from a civil rights/Bill of Rights standpoint. I can also stomach the notion of states rights, again to a degree. But the CATO institute is nothing more than a neocon stronghold and has contributed greatly to the many problems we face today, including the most intrusive government in our history.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, August 31, 2007 at 9:55 pm Link to this comment
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He is a libertarian socialist which is quite different from the libertarian party.  He only belongs to the IWW.

Chomsky has stated that “My personal visions are fairly traditional anarchist ones, with origins in The Enlightenment and classical liberalism”[26] and he has praised libertarian socialism.[27] He is a sympathizer of anarcho-syndicalism[28] and a member of the IWW union.[29]

Noam Chomsky has been engaged in political activism all of his adult life and expressed opinions on politics and world events which are widely cited, publicized and discussed. Chomsky has in turn argued that his views are those which the powerful do not want to hear, and for this reason he is considered an American political dissident. Some highlights of his political views:

  * Power is always illegitimate unless it proves itself to be legitimate. The burden of proof is on the authority. If it can’t be proven, it should be dismantled. Authority that puts some above others is illegitimate by assumption similarly to the use of violence by a nation.
  * That there isn’t much difference between slavery, and renting yourself to an owner, or “wage slavery.” He feels that it is an attack on personal integrity that destroys and undermines our freedoms. He holds that those that work in the mills should run them.
  * Very strong criticisms of the foreign policy of the United States. Specifically, he denounces what he feels are the double standards of the US government, which result in massive human rights violations. Chomsky argues that while the U.S. may preach democracy and freedom for all, the U.S. has a history of promoting, supporting and allying itself with non-democratic and repressive organizations and states.
  * He has argued that the mass media in the United States largely serve as a propaganda arm and “bought priesthood” of the U.S. government and U.S. corporations, with the three parties all largely intertwined through common interests. In a famous reference to Walter Lippmann, Edward S. Herman and Chomsky have said that the American media manufactures consent among the public.
  * He has opposed the U.S. global war on drugs, claiming its language to be misleading, and referring to it as “the war on certain drugs.” He favors education and prevention in the issue, as opposed to military and police action.[30] In an interview in 1999, Chomsky argued that, whereas crops such as tobacco receive no mention in governmental exposition, other non-profitable crops, such as marijuana, are specifically targeted due to the consequences incurred in persecuting the poor.[31]

  “US domestic drug policy does not carry out its stated goals, and policymakers are well aware of that. If it isn’t about reducing substance abuse, what is it about? It is reasonably clear, both from current actions and the historical record, that substances tend to be criminalized when they are associated with the so-called dangerous classes, that the criminalization of certain substances is a technique of social control.”[32]

  * Critical of the American capitalist system and big business, he describes himself as a libertarian socialist who sympathizes with anarcho-syndicalism and is highly critical of Leninist branches of socialism. He also believes that libertarian socialist values exemplify the rational and morally consistent extension of original unreconstructed classical liberal and radical humanist ideas to an industrial context. Specifically he believes in a highly organized society based on democratic control of communities and work places. He believes that the radical humanist ideas of his two major influences, Bertrand Russell and John Dewey, were “rooted in the Enlightenment and classical liberalism, and retain their revolutionary character.”[33]

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By Michael Shaw, August 31, 2007 at 6:05 pm Link to this comment

Well thanks for clearing that up John. Chomsky is a registered libertarian however.

As for Lincoln, I see his tenure as the beginning of the days of the Robber Barons, especially when his post war generals all became presidents. The moment the false notion of artificial entities being recognized by law as living persons emerged, it was the beginning of the end of any notion of democracy in this country.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, August 31, 2007 at 7:55 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Lincoln was a lawyer for the Illinois Central Railroad and he won a landmark case involving bridges and liability over the Mississippi.

I don’t think Chomsky is a libertarian by any means (libertarians are a corporate shell).  He is more like an anarchist syndicalist so he might vote but he would see it for the fraud that it is.

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By Michael Shaw, August 31, 2007 at 3:54 am Link to this comment

Well which Libertarians should we vote for? The Rupert Murdoch side with the neocons and the CATO Institute or the liberal side with Noam Chomsky?

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, August 30, 2007 at 10:45 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

None of the “choices” on the ballot are legitimate.  They are all bought out.  The only way to counter this is to take to the streets with signs that say liberal things like:  “Bush Ordered 911” or “Republicans Return to Their Vomit”  They did it in China and threw their crook media out of whack (at least for awhile).

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By b, August 30, 2007 at 5:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If you really want change to preserve the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, vote Libertarian! Our country depends on it.

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By Michael Shaw, July 13, 2007 at 6:03 pm Link to this comment

Lincoln did business with the rail roads during the war but he didn’t trust them. But then again, just as Eisenhower warned us of the military industrial complex, so to did Lincoln warn us of the American corporate state, something he himself established.

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By Skruff, July 13, 2007 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

John Hanks

“Lincoln was still a typical Republican in a lot of ways.  He said one thing in private, but he earned his living defending the Illinois Central Railroad and recovering a fugitive slave for a slave owner.  At least he was smart enough to see what would probably happen.”

He was a white supremisist who believed blacks were farm animals.

He suspended Habis Corpus for some southern prisoners

he presided over a jail which makes Gitmo look comfy.

You’ll get no disagreement here.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, July 13, 2007 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Now is the time.  Make a paper sign on your computer that says, IMPEACH BUSH AND CHENEY.  Put it in the back windowof your car on the lower right hand corner.  (My car is covered with such signs.)  Talk is like a compass that helps us to find the right direction.  But, it is vitally important to do something.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, July 13, 2007 at 8:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Lincoln was still a typical Republican in a lot of ways.  He said one thing in private, but he earned his living defending the Illinois Central Railroad and recovering a fugitive slave for a slave owner.  At least he was smart enough to see what would probably happen.

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By Skruff, July 13, 2007 at 6:45 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

86238 by John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming on 7/12 at 8:32 am

“I wrote this letter to the editor for the Casper Star Tribune in Casper, Wyoming.  The state is run by an energy/Republican machine, but the paper is still fairly good:”

Great letter Mr. Hanks, I’m no longer a Republican.
(registered Independent yesterday)

The reason I did not and will not consider the Democratic Party is that they are so closely aligned with the R’s that when the R’s stop walking the D’s will be up their ass.

Averial Harriman Democratic Governor of New York, Statesman and Democratic party activist (and friend of Franklin Roosvelt) was a partner with Prescott Bush at the Unioon Bank Company of New York when that company was doing business with the Naxis.

Lyndon Johnson spun his own “Verision of truth” in getting the Congress to pass his Tonkin Gulf resolution.

In 1992, we had our choice of 3 candidates George Bush (who supported NAFTA and MFN for China) Bill Clinton (who supported NAFTA and MFN for China) and Ross Perot who told us of “that sucking sound” as US jobs went overseas. Two assholes and a visionary, and we picked?  Why? I believe because both the D’s and the R’s have fed the folks the “wasted vote” theory.  My personal feeling is a vote for either of the major parties by a working American (or one who aspires to a good career) is a “wasted vote.”

Something more current you say?

Hillary Clinton, while sitting in New York’s Senate Seat has (serving as As co-chair of the Senate India Caucus) lobbied for the outsourcing of jobs and inflow of cheaper Indian labor from and to this country.  Treason I say!

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By Michael Shaw, July 12, 2007 at 10:33 pm Link to this comment

86434

Well I know he had no love for the major capitalists, especially the railroads.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, July 12, 2007 at 6:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Republican party has always been a criminally subversive organization.  Even Lincoln realized that.  He was afraid that the corporations would use the power of the media to sucker Americans into one of the worst tyrannies ever known.

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By Michael Shaw, July 12, 2007 at 1:06 pm Link to this comment

86238 IE “When Republicans began to fear that Americans were developing some smarts, they launched a radio propaganda war against the middle class to render them stupid, isolated, and divided.”

We can thank Reagan for much of that when he put and end to, “The Fairness Doctrine!”

Great letter John!

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, July 12, 2007 at 9:32 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I wrote this letter to the editor for the Casper Star Tribune in Casper, Wyoming.  The state is run by an energy/Republican machine, but the paper is still fairly good:

(The New York progressive Republicans followed the principle of “civil service” professionalism, which has now become part of their idiotic meritocracy/supremicist philosophy.  The Republicans have adopted a corporate Tammany Hall approach.)


“In the Republican party it is politically correct to make defective shoes for Union soldiers.  It is also correct to start a media campaign and sink a battleship and start the Spanish American War.  It is OK to give corporations the same rights as citizens, while letting them act as secret mafias polluting everything from water and air to the economy and foreign policy. It is politically correct to attempt a coup d’etat against Franklin Roosevelt in 1933.  It is correct to sell every sort of weapon to the Japanese and Germans while funding the rise of Hitler.  It is right to have a financially and politically controlled media so the bullhorn can always be used to convince Americans that there is a scary Communist or Arab or even a Jew under every bed.

When the war in Vietnam was coming to an end, it was smart to wreck the peace talks so Nixon could run against a weak Democrat who was saddled with the anti-Communist disaster.  When Republicans began to fear that Americans were developing some smarts, they launched a radio propaganda war against the middle class to render them stupid, isolated, and divided.  Meanwhile, Republican “crook without border” swindles continued with union busting, outsourcing, cheap immigration, and every other sort of scam.  Of course the greatest moment for this radical filth came on 911 when a terror stunt was carried out by Israel, Saudi Arabia and the usual Republican crooks.  This kept the pentagon protection racket going for Halliburton and the Carlyle Group.  This event became a license to attack and destroy every one of our institutions from the Bill of Rights to free elections and public education.  Now we have the same traitor trash trying to convince us that we need to let them establish a ruthless dictatorship so they can use the power of the state to keep everything they stole.”

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By Michael Shaw, July 12, 2007 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

85942 Boss Tweed aside, Tammany Hall served it’s purpose by giving those who were disenfranchised by society political clout. Particularly the Irish who found themselves enlisted in the military as soon as they set foot on US soil while their women and children starved at home.Meanwhile the coffins stacked up! The term “street urchin” came to existence back then, so many children begging and sleeping in doorways because their families couldn’t afford to feed them. Then the culmination of the 5 points gangs. Ultimately it led to out and out rebellion where battle hardened troops fresh from Gettysburg marched in gunning down men, women and children. Had the rioters never entered high society and attacked the rich I doubt the military would ever have been sent. The indifference of the wealthy, who bought their way out of the military draft, to the poor is what created a Tammany Hall in the first place.

I would say the republicans may have stopped Tammany Hall(local government) but they continued with their own brand of graft unscathed. Once Lincoln had died, we ended up with general after general as president and in fact the most corrupt federal government in US history, leading right up to the Robber Baron and McKinley, then on to the first world war and ultimately the Great Depression.

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By Michael Shaw, July 12, 2007 at 7:42 am Link to this comment

86151 IE Big crooks into little crooks. I would tend to say regulation does that. Without regulation in a democracy, oligarchy runs rampant, leading to corporate fascism.

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By John Hanks, Laramie, Wyoming, July 11, 2007 at 10:47 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I stand corrected.  The evils of privatization and free trade have been increasing through both Democratic and Republican administrations.  I think it was the BCCI scandal that I was thinking of and it was intimately connected to the Bush filth.  Kerry investigated it, though I just don’t trust the man (Skull and Bones).

Basically, socialisms turn big crooks into little crooks, and then the little crooks have some political influence, but their power is based on numbers and not extortion and profits.  The big crooks use the media as a shield and their money as a sword.

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By Skruff, July 11, 2007 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

85942 by John Hanks on 7/11 at 10:29 am

  “The first bank scandal occurred within a couple of months of his taking office.”

Actually the first (in that line of) bank scandals was a gentleman named Burt Lance, as I recall, Carter’s administration. 

I really don’t think it’s the Repubs vs Democrats, it’s the system.

De regulation began under Nixon (oil companies) increased under Carter (communications, airlines, and Banks I, Increased under Reagan Banks II Federal Prisons, Utilities and Trusts, and so forth.

In Worcester, we lost our (free to the poor) Municiple hospital, all our local banks excepting one, they contracted out work city employees had formerly done, they said it would lower taxes it actually doubles local levies.

One of the most forgotten decrepit cities in the US lies in Ted Kennedy’s back yard, when I called his office, I found (from a young aid) that the Senator had never been to Lawrence, although he had visited nearby Lowell.

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By John Hanks, July 11, 2007 at 11:29 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Around the turn of the century, the Republican party was the leader in getting rid of Tammany Hall graft.  They did this by developing a strong civil service.  They are the exact opposite today.  Under the guise of “privatization” they have been the leaders in farming out government operations to business enterprises.  Almost without exception, privatization has been a disaster masquerading as prison reform, military reform, election reform, religion reform, and media reform.  Reagan’s childish philosophy opened up the doors to almost every business crook in the country.  The first bank scandal occurred within a couple of months of his taking office.

Many Republicans belong in a government-run Leavenworth for every sort of crime including the treason of 911.

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