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DIG DIRECTOR

The Rev. Madison Shockley
The Rev. Madison Shockley is a minister of the United Church of Christ in Carlsbad, Calif. and a regular commentator on religion, race, politics and popular culture....










 

Jesus: The Man, the Myth

What is the truth about Jesus? What is the truth about the Christ? Are they the same truth? Are they the same person? Most people (religious and nonreligious) think of one person to whom they commonly refer as Jesus Christ as though Christ were this person’s surname. Christ is not Jesus’ last name but instead is an honorific title. It comes from the Greek word christos. The Greek christos is a translation of the Hebrew word messiah, meaning anointed one. This was the title of leadership given to Israelite kings and priests because they were doused or anointed with oil as a sign of their office. As it pertains to Jesus, he was called Christ as an expression of faith that he had been anointed by God as king and priest. The followers of this Jesus eventually gathered themselves into congregations of the Christ and ultimately into the Christian Church.

The truth about Jesus is that he was a human being who lived and died as every person born ever has. Jesus was most likely born in Nazareth of the Galilee and certainly was raised there. He was a Jewish wisdom teacher and exorcist/healer who lived in the Galilee province of the Roman Empire between 4 BCE (before the Common Era) and 30 CE. His mother was known as Mary. His father was likely Joseph.

The truth about Jesus is that he never intended to start a church or a new religion. He did not understand himself to be the divine Son of God; rather, he saw himself as the “Son of [hu]Man[ity]” or an “average Joe.” Not only did he not start a church, he joined the reform movement of John the Baptizer (aka John the Baptist), who was a popular and charismatic Jewish prophet.

So who is Jesus Christ? The Jesus Christ of most traditional theology is a distortion of both the Jesus of history and the Christ of the Christian faith—an attempt to take the metaphor of Christ and invest it totally in the historical figure of Jesus of Nazareth. It is a distortion because it makes a very Jewish Jesus into the first Christian and not the faithful Jew that he was. The truth about “Jesus Christ” is that when we look only at this hybrid concept we lose clear sight of both the human being and the mythological icon. What we hope to do in this dig is excavate separately the man (Jesus) and the myth (Christ) and unearth a new meaning for the statement “Jesus [is] Christ.”

Evidence and Methodology

The first problem in disentangling the man from the myth is that we have no direct contemporary historical evidence of Jesus’ existence, let alone enough information to give us a true image of the man we seek. We only have faith documents, written decades after Jesus’ death, which by the admission of one “... are written so that you may come to believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that through believing you may have life in his name” (Gospel of John 20:31). The pursuit of this “de-mythologized” Jesus is known in academic circles as the “quest for the historical Jesus.”

The quest for the historical Jesus was born out of Enlightenment sensibilities and freedoms that liberated the Bible from the Church and made it available to nonreligious bodies for interpretation and study. Scientific inquiry knew no limits, and quickly the miraculous and mythical elements of the Christian texts came under strict scrutiny. This was not done lightly. One of the early “questers” published his work posthumously lest he come to an untimely demise. None other than Sir Albert Schweitzer conducted the most famous quest. We generally know him as the kindly physician, environmentalist and animal activist who lived out his life treating Africans deep in the jungle. But he became a physician only after a career as a professor of theology. His book “The Quest for the Historical Jesus” (1906) proclaimed that Jesus was an apocalyptic Jewish mystic who preached the imminent end of the world. Schweitzer says of Jesus, “When this did not happen, and the great wheel of history refused to turn, he threw himself upon it, [and] was crushed in the process….” Thus ended Schweitzer’s theological career.

The current quest began in the 1970s. The ethos of the early “questers” has now permeated most mainstream seminary curricula. Several generations of ministers have been trained in the historical-critical method that interprets the Christian texts from a literary and historical perspective and ignores the doctrines of the Church. This methodology constitutes the basic tools for those excavating Jesus from under the layers of faith, fantasy and fact that have covered him over the years. These historically trained ministers have carried on the traditional faith in their pulpits despite their new perspective, producing a phenomenon that Jack Good describes in his book “The Dishonest Church.” In academic gatherings they pursue the truth with passion, but in the local church they teach Sunday school lessons from generations past.

Therefore while much of this truth has been known in the academy, it has only trickled into the pews of the churches. The scholarship of the Jesus Seminar of the Westar Institute, a gathering of more than 200 professionally trained specialists, is at the forefront of this current quest for the historical Jesus. Their central contribution has been the publication of “The Five Gospels.” Not only does this work expand the Gospel canon from four to five (they hold the Gnostic Gospel of Thomas as having equal historical value to the traditional Matthew, Mark, Luke and John), but in a twist on previous “red-letter” editions of the New Testament, in which all the words attributed to Jesus are colored red, the scholars of the Jesus Seminar apply four different shadings to the words attributed to Jesus. Black for words strictly the product of the early church with no connection to the historical Jesus. Gray for words likely the product of the early church but consistent with the core message of Jesus. Pink for words consistent with the core message of Jesus but as likely to be the product of his earliest followers. Red for words that are consistent with the core message of Jesus and likely to have been spoken by him in similar form. Their conclusion: Only 20% of the words traditionally attributed to Jesus deserve a red or pink rating.

A major presupposition of the project was that Matthew and Luke used a common written document as a source of their sayings of Jesus. Such a document has never been found, but by isolating the ideas and sayings of Jesus that did not appear in Mark, the Jesus Seminar identified a body of sayings it called “Q” (the first letter of the German word quelle, which means source).  The scholars believe this document was the earliest written account of Jesus’ teaching and is therefore more relevant to understanding who the historical Jesus really was than any of the canonical Gospels.

Once the historical words of Jesus are separated from the speculative rhetoric of the early Christian church, a very different image of this man emerges. The next phase of the quest was to identify, by a kind of historical-literary triangulation, what this man Jesus actually did. Taking first what Jesus said and mapping the progression of what others said about him, the Jesus Seminar proceeded to develop an outline of his ministry and then his mission. By tracking the response to and interpretation of the words and works of Jesus by these writers they were able to discover how the image of Jesus grew. These findings are contained in another book from the Jesus Seminar, “The Acts of Jesus.

They conjecture that originally Jesus was received and perceived as a Jewish sage, a wisdom teacher with a message of unconventional wisdom who did some healings and exorcisms on the side. He preached a vision of the “Empire of God,” which was an alternative to the brutal Roman Empire, and available to anyone who followed the precepts of his unconventional wisdom. “Blessed are the poor” was certainly not a rational view of the world in which Jesus lived, yet it was the very foundation of his philosophy and theology.

Continued: The Death of Jesus
Dig last updated on Dec. 20, 2005


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Dig Director's Blog

Apr. 12, 2006

Hallelujah! Easter is almost here. Aren’t you glad? What’s that low sigh I hear? Ohhhhh that’s right, you’re one of those progressive Christians. Easter is probably the most conflicted time of the year among progressive churches, even more so than Christmas. Even a progressive Christian can reasonably assert that Jesus was really born, even as the debate goes on among others about how he was born. But this is not so with Easter. Either he was resurrected or he was not. And when we say he was not, then someone somewhere will quote I Corinthians 15:12 to us, “Now if Christ is proclaimed as raised from the dead, how can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead?”

- - -
Dec. 22, 2005

Shockley addresses reader comments regarding the historical Jesus and representations of “the Christ.”

- - -
Dec. 21, 2005

The culture wars have clearly gotten out of hand when the front line is Christmas.

- - -
 
 
 

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By RaulTism, January 2, 2012 at 12:25 pm Link to this comment
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By tgambill, May 10, 2010 at 10:28 pm Link to this comment

@TT19, Yes, the Bush administration tried in July/Aug 2009 but the attack against Iran failed to happen thanks to Air Force Personnel in Minot AFB.  However the CIA murdered 6 in one week from Minot to during August 2007 to keep them quiet about the location of the one or two missing nukes yet to be used. The justification for martial law is just around the corner.

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By tgambill, October 21, 2009 at 11:06 pm Link to this comment

Like I was saying, its not long now. December they sign over.  The North American union was signed over three years ago by the traitor Bush.  The Traitor Nixon set it up in 1969 with Executive Order 11647, but it failed to happen. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMe5dOgbu40

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By christian96, October 21, 2009 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

Tgambill—-I am presently watching a progarm about
Hitler on the History International channel.  They
just advertised a program tonight at 8 pm, EDT
about the relationship of America’s founding fathers
and the Freemasons.  I thought you might be interested if you get the channel.  You will know
how factual the program is because you have studied
this area.

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By tgambill, October 21, 2009 at 7:50 am Link to this comment

“This New World Order business is showing up on other TD forums in the form of fanatical socialism, or neo-communism to be exact, only fusing it with Christianity, which is weird and internally contradictory to the ideology of communism.”

******Sheno, you hit the nail on the head and described it beautifully.  What you have just described is the goal of the New Age Movement exactly…..!!!!!

“It is kind of funny, ironically funny, that you are accused of being an atheist.”

*****Agreed……I just about dropped my jaw and still shaking my head like the funny smiley face. 

 
“Obviously the new poster has not the experience of this entire forum from its
beginning.  Because you do not display the “accepted” fundamentalist Christian
perspective, your brand of Christianity does not count.”

******sure doesn’t count and I’m not changing because you will read in the Bible even that God has described the many different type of churches that are errant. 

“Oh how intolerance exists!  It is so unChristian!  I’ve seen that hypocrisy too often.  I may not agree with you, but I certainly respect your right to believe as you wish.”

******Last Sunday, an old woman, African American, homeless and very unkept wandered to our church in the morning.  I observed our group taking care of her in different ways and I went to my car to get some clothes that were being kept for the good will…and by the time I got back to the church it was discovered that she was “dressed” like this and was known to see if our church and the others on the stripe were really in Gods will or hypocritical as you said.  She was testing the churches in the area……..

“Annie and I accept you as a Christian and we have argued about its essential
features for a long time now.  Annie and you much longer than that! 
Sometimes we argue fiercely, but I think we three show a healthy attitude
really.”

*****I can’t blast an Atheists viewpoint when we have our own to clean up and bring to light that are deceiving Christians by Christians…….I would almost stand with an atheist rather than take the side of a Christian Zealot that is preaching unbiblical principles and lying about what Jesus and the Holy Spirit says.  Then we go back to our discussions as before….smile

“You have kindly warned us of the fakirs that attempt to crash this
forum.  And I have actually relied on you to do that since I wouldn’t know a
bogus Christian from a real one (how do you tell?)  I think Annie has
sharper insight than I do.”

*****You tell by knowing the Bible or even having a basic understanding and they expose their true agenda by what they say and how they say it even in a forum. 

“You know I am atheist and I know you consider me ignorant, but I don’t mind
because you are well-mannered about it. “

*****Wrong!!  You are definitely not ignorant as you are a, I’m assuming, a woman of class, quiet disposition and kind in your way with people.  Annie and I have been at this for some time, and we throw little darts at each other but she is also knowledgeable but certainly “forceful”….smile

Wisdom does from God, through the Holy Spirit and the Bible, King James only, as they both say the same thing in different ways to those that believe and listen to his voice.

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By tgambill, October 21, 2009 at 7:49 am Link to this comment

Shenomoyous, I think Mike means well unlike the other yahoo’s.  Mike has a preconceived notion that all those that claim to be Christian are just that, a believer in Jesus, the Bible and so forth but this just isn’t true.  Literally it extends itself to the Pope that is indeed involved in destroying the current “dogma” of the Catholic Church as this position has been connected with the Jesuits since even before the founding of our country going back to the Knights Templar.  The 13 Illuminati families we know that include the Rothschilds and Rockefellers as we recite the rest are themselves a cover for a more sinister group of families that control them.  Aside from all this exotic history, we come to little servants that we call mega-churches, Charasmatic movement, Federal Counsel of Churches which morphed into the NATIONAL COUNSEL OF CHURCHES, which itself is controlled by the Illuminati and linking with the Roman Catholic church as another means to bring about a one world religion based on the coming anti-christ.  They are setting up the New Age Movement and have since the 1960’s brought it into the public view. 

Billy Graham’s crusade was started with ROCKEFELLER money as they did BILLY SUNDAY in his day.  I have traced the money so to speak to the Laura Spellman Memorial Fund of the day.  The Rockefeller’s and such donate and through the donations, monetary aid they control private churches and groups, associations and educational institutions.  Most all of your TV charismatic leaders are under this control and deception.  It is a fact that Jesuits are trained to be Baptist ministers, Presbyterians, et al, to lead their “flock” from the King James Teachings and bring them to the New Age Movement little by little.  I’m leaving a lot out of this complex conspiracy but it documented if one does honest, unbiased research.  Many are teaching their “flock” that Islam is the one enemy and this is just not true.  Radical Islam is controlled by the Illuminati arm to bring about this war that is coming and deception that is being set up.  Sheno, 10’s of thousands of good people both Christians, atheist and Muslims are being mislead by this conspiracy.  It is a documented fact that the fundamental principle of the Satanic Illuminati is to divide different races, religions, political groups, social classes, and nationalities to make them fight each other so they become weak in manpower and ruined economically.  The PLOT LEADS THEN TOWARDS INTERNATIONALISM.  It’s a fact for example that the Rothschilds funded both sides of the North and the South in our civil war to set up a European invasion after our Civil War but the Czar of Russia thwarted their plans by helping Lincoln.  It’s a fact that the Rothschilds funded both Japan and Russia in 1904 for their war and orchestrated Russia’s defeat buy withholding supply financing at the critical moment to ensure their defeat in order to use our very own banking system to fund Lenin in 1905 and later the Bolshevik Revolution by Wall Street to foment the Russian Revolution.  This is supported by historical fact and scholarily research that is iron clad.  In other words the deception that we have been living under is massive.
It is a hoax of a site for sure.

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By tgambill, October 20, 2009 at 11:55 pm Link to this comment

MIKE…......MIKE>...
“Tagnbill, you would believe any arguement against religion because you are an atheist.”

****** I’m an atheist??  Mike, Mike, son you better come out of the rain and into the light.  I would suggest that you read a little more of this forum and certainly the hypocrisy of the so called Rev. Madison Shockley; I can see where this heretic got his name, “SHOCK-Me Lee”…..

New age ministers like Billy Graham, Shueller, Copeland, Rick Warren, Hagee, Hagin, TD Jakes, Brazier, Hinn, Pat Robertson, Oral Roberts, Osteen, and the list goes on and on.  Hey Mike, did you know that the owner of Blackwater gives large donations to Focus on the Family, James Dobson and are in bed together.  The National Counsel of Churches is the same organization that evolved from the Federal Counsel of Churches founded in 1908.  It was funded by the LUCIFERIAN dweller, named Rockefeller who is an original Illuminati.  Google this and behold.  The Named Illuminati 13 are only cover for a much more sinister family line not even named.  The Pope, Billy Graham, Robert Shueller are Masons for goodness Sake!!!!!!  Check out the Jesuit Black Pope…..hello…….  Masons, above the 33rd degree worship Lucifer. Knock knock….anyone home?? 

“Especially Christianity, the one and only religion that threatens your atheistic dogma.”

*****Man, what are you smoking?  Its not camels or Methols….you best read a little more of this site instead of getting the runs of the mouth and check your Jesus meter……its run out. 

“ It’s natural for you to. It’s too bad, but it’s not too late. Jesus is kind and merciful to forgive you for that. Turn back now before it’s too late.”
******?????? 

I am a born again Christian that has seen the light as The Bible has predicted.  God did not bring us religion.  Jesus did not preach religion.  He brought us Salvation and redemption.  He became sin on the cross, died and rose again to be out savior that we should believe upon him and be saved from our sins by Gods grace.  Mike, google The NEW AGE MOVEMENT.  The Masons, Jesuits and Evangelicals were designed by the Luciferian agenda to mislead just as the Bible says.  I’m sure that you recall in II Thess when Jesus says, “Depart from me, I never knew you”….to the ministers and preachers and Popes and Priests, Rabbis’ et al that will and are embracing the New Age Movement. 

“ I wouldn’t want you to get killed in some car wreck tomorrow and loose the opportunity you have now. Maybe you should take a bible study and try to understand Christianity rather than attack it for no reason whatsoever. It is apparent that you lack understanding, and the true wisdom that can only come from God. I will remember you in my prayers.”

*****Mike, I’m a Watchman from Ezekiel 33.  We are calling out the fake Christians, fake Jews that are Khazarian and Ashkenazi Jews


In Nixon tapes, Billy Graham refers to ‘synagogue of Satan’

An earlier release of tapes in 2002 shocked fans of Graham, who is heard agreeing with Nixon as the president rails against liberal Jews’ political activism and media clout. Graham tells Nixon how Jews befriend him but adds, “They don’t know how I really feel about what they’re doing to this country.”

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-06-24-graham-tapes_N.htm

google Billy Graham,  Bennyh HINN(when the bodies hit the floor)  , Osteen, and see what they are REALLY saying.  If you can’t let me know.

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By Shenonymous, October 20, 2009 at 10:15 pm Link to this comment

H’lo tgambill.  Every so often an errant soul finds their way to this site.  It
is difficult to pinpoint what jesus is ? is.  I would attach the word
abnormal to him (I think it is a him) because there doesn’t seem to be any one
thing he cogently says except to visit his site and be wowed by it in some
indiscriminate way.  It is a hoax of a site anyway.  This New World Order
business is showing up on other TD forums in the form of fanatical socialism,
or neo-communism to be exact, only fusing it with Christianity, which is weird
and internally contradictory to the ideology of communism.

It is kind of funny, ironically funny, that you are accused of being an atheist. 
Obviously the new poster has not the experience of this entire forum from its
beginning.  Because you do not display the “accepted” fundamentalist Christian
perspective, your brand of Christianity does not count.  Oh how intolerance
exists!  It is so unChristian!  I’ve seen that hypocrisy too often.  I may not
agree with you, but I certainly respect your right to believe as you wish. 

Annie and I accept you as a Christian and we have argued about its essential
features for a long time now.  Annie and you much longer than that! 
Sometimes we argue fiercely, but I think we three show a healthy attitude
really.  You have kindly warned us of the fakirs that attempt to crash this
forum.  And I have actually relied on you to do that since I wouldn’t know a
bogus Christian from a real one (how do you tell?)  I think Annie has
sharper insight than I do. 

You know I am atheist and I know you consider me ignorant, but I don’t mind
because you are well-mannered about it.  I don’t recall you ever calling me a
name for it.  I am atheist because I find the notion of God incoherent and
contradictory, and so conceived cannot exist.

When an apparently religious person says “only true wisdom comes from God,”
there is a presumption that he understands God and knows and believes in the
reality of what is being talked about.  He presumes to know what true means,
and what wisdom is and that there is no other wisdom that is true save that
which comes from God.  Furthermore, in saying God is this way or that way, he
presupposes there is a God and this God has a certain character.  I do not
believe his statement about God is true because as an atheist I do not accept
the presupposition on which they are made, specifically, that there is a God.  I
do not accept his statement not because I know it is false, but because I believe
the concept of God to be an incoherent concept.  I have not been able to
resolve in my own mind that the concept of God is sufficiently coherent to
make belief possible for an independent, reasonable, and unprejudiced mind. 

For instance:  If mankind has no human experience of true wisdom how would
any individual be able to recognize that God has true wisdom?  It becomes
meaningless to say that only true wisdom comes from God.

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By mike, October 19, 2009 at 11:01 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Tagnbill, you would believe any arguement against religion because you are an atheist. Especially Christianity, the one and only religion that threatens your atheistic dogma. It’s natural for you to. It’s too bad, but it’s not too late. Jesus is kind and merciful to forgive you for that. Turn back now before it’s too late. I wouldn’t want you to get killed in some car wreck tommorow and loose the opportunity you have now. Maybe you should take a bible study and try to understand Christianity rather than attack it for no reason whatsoever. It is apparent that you lack understanding, and the true wisdom that can only come from God. I will remember you in my prayers.

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By tgambill, October 18, 2009 at 10:09 pm Link to this comment

We know….where it came from

and he will be moving more and more as the time closes in.  They are setting up the justification for martial law.

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By tgambill, October 18, 2009 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

Shenom,

“The Three Testament Research Center is where researchers from all spiritual backgrounds come together to research the three religions that claim to be from God and share our findings with everyone. To best understand our research results you must read the entire site and refrain from involving your emotions as it may cloud your judgment. (Site Admin: John)”


Comment:  This statement from the site is the fruit of a one world religion and New Age Movement.  He is not a christian Brother but a deceiver.

“Christian scholars states that today we have over 5400 manuscripts copies for the 27 books of the New Testament. They tell us that no two are identical; in fact more than 3000 manuscripts were discovered in the last 2 centuries. This discovery forced the scholars to separate them to two groups


1. Most ancient manuscript {they were written 200-400 years after Jesus}

2. Ancient manuscript {they were written 400-600 years after Jesus}

Note: The following verses in Blue are not found in any of the most ancient manuscripts (200-400 Years after Jesus).

COMMENT:  The last true book of the Bible was written by John on Patmos, its called the Revelation.  It was written around 70-90 AD.  NO other written works after this one is the truth or the true inspired word of God.  I will side with an atheist before I would side with this deception. Christian96 is on track.  This “Jesus is” IS a deceiver and the site is full of bunk.

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By christian96, October 18, 2009 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment

Tgambill—-In my previous comment I mentioned
Matthew 14.  It should have been Matthew 24.
I was just busy doing some work and out of nowhere
came the thought “you quoted Matthew 14 instead
Matthew 24.”  I came back to check it out and sure
enough I misquoted the correct chapter.  Now, where
did that thought come from?

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By christian96, October 18, 2009 at 7:35 pm Link to this comment

Tgambill——You mentioned Lucifer’s attempt to
establish a one world government.  Glad to see
you are on top of things.  I haven’t checked the
site you folks have been discussing.  I don’t have
time tonight but I’ll check it out tomorrow.  I can
tell you from watching so called Christian TV
programs and reading Christian literature that a
WHOLE LOT OF DECEPTION is out there.  If you know
the Bible then you know the deception was predicted
to come.  Check out the 14th chapter of Matthew.
When the disciples ask Jesus for the signs just
before his return the first THING Jesus said was watch out
for deceivers.  He said, “Deceivers will come in my
name.”  THEY ARE HERE!  BIG TIME! If you were Lucifer
and his fallen angels who’s thoughts would you try
to influence?  TV preachers, politicians, Hollywood
writers, etc.

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By jesus is ?, October 18, 2009 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

im talking to my christians brothers, none else.please read the ALL OF http://www.godtruth.ca
and see ??

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By tgambill, October 18, 2009 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

Shenome, this Jesus is site is full of more holes than a fishing net.  It is the effort of getting the one world religion in the main stream and the lies of who Jesus really is from the Bible and who he claimed to be.  You may be an atheist, but you are true to your belief system.  This person is a deceiver and is protraying lies and deception.  They are part of the Luciferian or Satanic effort of promoting the New World Order and one world religon.

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By Shenonymous, October 18, 2009 at 12:37 pm Link to this comment

Please save us the trouble and just tell us, please jesus is ?.  It looks like a
fools site for holy book comparisons and hypotheses of what is or is not the truth
when in fact none of it is truth nor can you find truth in the Bible (Old and New
Testament) and the Qur’an.  As far as I am concerned you have every right to
continue to believe what you want but try not to be deluded that you have any
arguments that religions represent the truth.  Of the 400 religions in the world
which one has the truth?  None. 

Also looks like you might not be an American and do not have good English skills. 
You might get yourself a translation dictionary and take more time with your
posts.  Also there are probably other blogs dealing with this topic you might get
more traction from.

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By jesus is ?, October 18, 2009 at 12:03 pm Link to this comment

when u read the whole site of http://www.godtruth.ca U will see why ... this site is very dongrus??

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By Shenonymous, October 18, 2009 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

Some people are very needy.  Some aren’t.  What exactly are mumbers?  I checked
out your site and it did not make me want to genuflect.  But hay, we always enjoy
getting this site into a new cycle every so often. Using hay instead of hey in honor
of a friend who is a farmer!

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By jesus is ?, October 18, 2009 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

many of our mumber convert by reading this site: http://www.godtruth.ca

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By tgambill, September 3, 2009 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment

The 400 witnesses are mentioned in the Bible following his resurrection

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By Shenonymous, September 3, 2009 at 3:03 pm Link to this comment

Well christian96 if you don’t think we are all made of subatomic particles guess you just will not think so.  It is sort of like holding a medieval view, though.  But that is all right.  You have a right to do that.  Exactly what was Jesus’s model against which spirits that can be demonstrated by observing human behavior could be measured?  What is the paradigm of love, of kindness, of concern about others’ behaviors? Against that what is the perfect model of hate, meanness, self-centeredness that is motivated by the Spirit of the Antichrist.  If you don’t have a static model for either of these polarized sets of behaviors to use as a measure, how would you go about teaching differentiation of positive spiritual forces and negative ones when you can’t get a hold of either end?  How can we ‘know’ that we are “in line with influences form the Holy Spirit”?  What are the distinguishing marks of being in line?  I am not sure which forces you say scientists have not yet developed an objective way of measuring with an electron microscope, it is not clear what you mean.  But surely these questions are important and need answered.

Simply said, the results of Science from the fields of Astrophysics, Geology, Archaeology, Anthropology, and Literary Criticism have concluded that the Bible is not the word of God, this precious hard-won scientific knowledge constitutes The Forbidden Knowledge on the Bible’s Pre-biblical Origins.

The “forensic evidence” (physical evidence) unequivocally contradicts (refutes, denies and challenges) the witness’ (Bible’s) testimony regarding the age of the Universe and of the Earth, how life came into being, and when this occurred

So what could Forbidden Knowledge be?  Well, contrary to “secret” knowledge, such as the cabbalah, which was a desire to interpret aspects of Christianity mystically, also for instance, tgambill’s esoteric Illuminati, Forbidden Knowledge describes particular books or other information to which access is restricted or deprecated for political or religious reasons. Forbidden knowledge is usually not secret, rather a society or various institutions will use repressive mechanisms to either completely prevent the publication of information they find objectionable or dangerous (that is, censorship), or failing that, they attempt to reduce the public’s trust in such information in the form of propaganda. Public repression can create paradoxical situations (uh, crazymaking) where the proscribed information is generally common knowledge but publicly citing it is also uh, forbidden!

A rich set of examples exist through history. Well known to Western readers are forbidden books as defined by the Roman Catholic church in the last few centuries. At one time in Japan and China, all Western literature was forbidden 20th and 21st repressive regimes (e.g. communism in Eastern Europe and Mao’s China) placed strong restrictions on so called “foreign propaganda,” meaning foreign literature.

One of the arguments about the Holy Spirit is that the words are feminine so represents a feminine aspect of God.  However, many men find the appearance of such a powerful female spirit, anathema, because you know why.  Let’s everyone make up a story.

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By Annie Reitano, September 3, 2009 at 11:46 am Link to this comment

Wow!  I didn’t get anything more form what xian96 said than A PENNY SAVED IS A PENNY EARNED.

That’s just as true.  In my mind even more so since the only thing we can really, honestly call a spirit is the part of us that thinks (mind) and makes up who we are as people.  When we die, it dies with us because in essence it IS us.

I am not surprised you found it so profound you sent it out to all your friends, tom.  My mother is always sending me these foolish xian emails that can so easily be debunked.  Xians tote religious crap like it’s their lunch. 

Primitive writers of the Bible may had the same concept of the spirit as Indians did.  There’s always been the superstition of the “Great Spirit” or the spirit of man.  The first is just the god of the gaps for which could not be understood, but no is understood; and the second is the part of man which ticks as long as he is ticking.

If I am wrong, show me a spirit in the context in which you mean it.  Then tell me where it was before you were born since the Bible also states that they are eternal.

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By christian96, September 3, 2009 at 8:18 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous—-They are not quite the same.  The
scientists can measure sub-atomic principles through
the microscope but they have no way of measuring
spirits.  Well, I’m wrong about that! Jesus told us
we can measure spirits by observing the behavior
humans demonstrate.  Being motivated by the Holy
Spirit humans will demonstrate loving, kind, concern
about others behaviors.  While being motivated by
the Spirit of Antichrist humans will demonstrate
hateful, mean, self-centered behaviors.  In our
spiritual walk through this human experience the
two different spiritual forces will be fighting for
control of our life through thoughts.  We must teach
humans to differentiate between the spiritual forces
influencing their thoughts and how to behave in a
way in line with influences from the Holy Spirit.
To this point in our development scientists have not
developed an objective means for measuring the forces
with a micro-scope.

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By tgambill, September 3, 2009 at 7:04 am Link to this comment

Christian96, fantastic quote.  I Just sent that out to about 60 of my distro list.  ITs 100% true.

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By Shenonymous, September 3, 2009 at 2:57 am Link to this comment

Good morning, why christian96 I do believe that was the most profound thing you’ve written here!  I was kind of knocked out by it.  I am not kidding!  I would change it slightly but I do like yours a lot.

WE ARE NOT HUMAN BEINGS GOING THROUGH A TEMPORARY
SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE. WE ARE SUBATOMIC PARTICLES GOING
THROUGH A TEMPORARY HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

Same thing, right?

In a way Nietzsche had it.  We, meaning the entire universe and I don’t know if he would have gone that far, but then he didn’t live in a time yet that had the electron microscope, but we are involved in the eternal return.  It is the Dance of the Wu Li Master:

“The Wu Li Master dances with his student. The Wu Li Master does not teach, but the student learns. The Wu Li Master always begins at the center, the heart of the matter…. [Wu Li] deals not with knowledge, which is always past tense anyway, but with imagination, which is physics come alive, which is Wu Li…. Most people believe that physicists are explaining the world. Some physicists even believe that, but the Wu Li Masters know that they are only dancing with it.

I suppose tgambill you never heard of the Gospel according to the Hebrews?  It is the first book used by the first Christians.  You might read the writings of Jerome (Eusebius Sophronius Hieronymus) translator for the Vulgate (uh, you know, the Vulgate that was responsible for you even getting a Bible).  Contemporary scholarship is wondering if whether there was even a second Hebrew Gospel, or even a third.  See, they, the Bible scholars, are still arguing today over what is really biblical and what is not.  Of course if you don’t want to go with “real” scholarship, that is your choice, but I think it would be awfully funny if you thought the Bible you use appeared out of thin air at the moment KJ commissioned it.

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By Annie Reitano, September 3, 2009 at 2:17 am Link to this comment

By tgambill, September 2 at 11:29 pm #

Mornin’ Tom.  Where are these 400 witnesses?  Where are their writings and why do you beieve it?  You have faith, not proof.  If you had proof you wouldn’t need the faith that you cling to.  You could just throw the Bible away..the very book that claims you are to have faith and not proof.  Paul’s writings make this clear. 

Christians speak greatly of proof…when the Bible actually requires all of your faith.

A child believes fully that Santa Claus travels around the world giving presents to all the children who have been good, and a lump of coal to those who have been bad.  Are they stupid?  No, they just have faith in what they have been taught by those they have faith in—their parents.  They simply put faith in their parents who, frankly, are lying to them.  When they find out that Santa is not real, they tend to laugh at those little fools who would still believe that a man could travel with such velocity around the world and actually place presents in every child’s home.  Now that the truth is revealed and they are enlightened, it all makes sense because instead of using faith..they now have knowledge and have used it to think it all out.

You are like the child that is being laughed at by those who have been told the truth, and accept it because it rings of reality. You are hanging onto a great lie.  It controls your life and like all those who have faith, you hold onto it as if you are special enough to not get that lump of coal that you so fearfully dread.  It’s childish, really.  But if tomorow, all the world were to awaken to the reality of the situation by some force of enlightenment, you would feel silly.  Then you would accept the actual truth and just admit that you were wrong.

Children..well, they are more resilient to such fairytales being stolen away from them…as long as they get the presents that is. smile It’s all selfish, childish thoughts.  Nothing more.  It has no place in reality, and sometimes I wonder why we still discuss such ridiculous nonsense in the 21st century.

Adults have a harder time admitting they are wrong and that they have been lied to.  Mostly because it takes away the “present” of heaven.  I can’t tell you how many times I have heard xians say that life would be meaningless without the belief in god and the afterlife.  In truth, it’s not god they want.  If it were only a god with no “present” nor “lump of coal” (i.e. hell) after death, I submit to you that no one would give a damn what their god thought.  Fear, and bribery..they are great controllers.

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By christian96, September 3, 2009 at 1:01 am Link to this comment

WE ARE NOT HUMAN BEINGS GOING THROUGH A TEMPORARY
SPIRITUAL EXPERIENCE. WE ARE SPIRITUAL BEINGS GOING
THROUGH A TEMPORARY HUMAN EXPERIENCE.

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By tgambill, September 2, 2009 at 9:51 pm Link to this comment

The Council of Nicea voted to make the Trinity the official doctrine of the church. However, the Council of Nicea did not invent these doctrines. Rather, it only recognized what the Bible taught, and systematized the doctrines.  The Council of Nicea did not invent the doctrine of the deity of Christ. Rather, the Council of Nicea affirmed the Apostles’ teaching of who Christ is—the One true God in Deity and Trinity with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Sheno, in all due respect your info about this era is not correct.

The Holy Spirit is completely scriptural.  The Holy Spirit has over 34 different names.  Another counselor, Breathe of the Almighty, Holy one, Holy spirit, holy spirit of God, seal, Spirit of Christ, Sprit of faith, fire, glory, God, of Grace and supplication, Spirit of his son, Spirit of holiness, Spirit of Jesus christ, Spirit of hte Lord, the gift, The promised Holy Spirit, the list goes and goes.

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By tgambill, September 2, 2009 at 9:37 pm Link to this comment

I’ll write more tonight and tomorrow. The books of the Bible were written by eyewitnesses or eyewitnesses to visions and dreams sent by God. Man has no clue really because of deception by man not God, and man inability to understand the truth in a physical world.

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By Shenonymous, September 2, 2009 at 9:19 pm Link to this comment

How do you decide tgambill which is true, The Catholic Scholars or the Protestant Scholars?  Then how does that answer reconcile with the fact of science?

For instance: For some conservative Catholic Scholars the earth and the universe was created 5199 B.C. while some conservative Protestant scholars understand this event was in 4004 B.C. CONTRA these dates (being derived from the Bible’s internal chronology), Astrophysists understand from data compiled by the orbiting Hubble Space Telescope that the earth is 4 billion years old and the universe is 14 billion years old.

The thing about the New Testament is that the books were originally written sometime after c. AD 45.  Everything is hearsay, sort of like present day journalists who go around getting people’s opinions of what might have happened.  The only texts to survive that era are Greek translations that were then translated and translated then translated.  Each time, changes made by the translators.  We do not even have one Greek translation.  So all that we have are several generations removed from the fact.  How can anyone take this collection of writings as literal truth?  Then the big guns at the Council of Nicaea, convened by Constantine, decided which books to include in the Bible.  There are other books supposedly that were held out because they didn’t quite fit the “official” look quite rightly. So what is to be done with those books?  They supposedly were “eye witness” accounts as well.  There was a big argument over a number of things, such as whether Christ on earth was God or man and whether he was co-equal with God. At the end of the day, they created the idea of the Trinity by inventing ‘The Holy Spirit’ which is almost entirely non-scriptural.

There is no question that the Council of Nicaea was a ‘political’ convention.  Constantine called all the Bishops together to thrash out an agreement which all could support in order that there should be an empire wide church which all would support.  They essentially designed a religion to pull together political factions.  There were already dangerous schisms arising (Arianism, based on the theological teachings of Arius, a Christian priest) which had they continued could have caused civil war in the Roman Empire and Constantine to loose his throne - that concerned him far more than the finer points of the Nicene Creed. Constantine had many books burning after the Council to suppress and further spread of non-heterodox beliefs.

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By tgambill, September 2, 2009 at 8:29 pm Link to this comment

“We know that people don’t resurrect..we know that.  So where are the bones of Jesus?  They supposedly found his “shroud”..where are his bones?”

*****Annie, Jesus was resurrected as witnessed in one case by over 400 people at one time.  All the disciples saw him and true, you can’t disprove that he didn’t. There is more proof that he did resurrect than he didn’t.  His body was changed to the glorified body as was the men of God in the Old Testament that was taken up in life.  We know that people are resurrected in the glory of God. 

“There is NO evidence to suggest that he existed.”

****Plenty of evidence than there is of any major figure in history.  His existence is not an issue.  The only issue is his claim to deity.  People twist the truth of the Bible to recreate God and it won’t work.  Sure, it chock full of holes to those that do not read it with truth in mind.  The only ones that go into hysteria are those without faith.  Faith vs knowledge that is unsure or theories……hmmmmmmmmm Faith in the almighty will win out every time.

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By Annie Reitano, September 2, 2009 at 5:11 pm Link to this comment

Actually, there is not proof..that’s true.  But there’s plenty of evidence.  The fact that Jesus is a little tooooo close in description to many of the older Egyptian gods is not just a concidence.  The supposed date of his birth, his mother’s name..there are just too many similarities.  What about the supposed resurrection?  We know that people don’t resurrect..we know that.  So where are the bones of Jesus?  They supposedly found his “shroud”..where are his bones?

There is NO evidence to suggest that he existed.  That takes fatih.  But there is a lot of evidence to show that he didn’t.  That takes knowledge. Anyone who reads the Bible exactly how it is without listening to a preacher can see that it is so full of holes and problems, that the mere thought of a perfect deity having written it is enough to make a person go into hysteria.

Faith vs. knowledge…hmmm I will take the latter.

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By tgambill, September 2, 2009 at 10:13 am Link to this comment

There is no evidence to prove otherwise, dear Annie. Those that are non-believers and alleged believers are in for a shock.  They have been saying this for centuries but they were not looking at the signs.  Those signs are present now.

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By Annie Reitano, September 2, 2009 at 10:07 am Link to this comment

Thank you for getting the point, Tom.  Anything you say or show me…certainly if it’s just a post on the net; I can counter it. 

And the reason is NOT just because YOU say that God and Jesus are real and we will all know in due time…no.  Everyone has heard that SINCE the beginning of all of this myth.  It’s because no one knows for sure if this man called Jesus ever even existed.  Thus, he is “supposed”.  One man says I believe and have faith, another says, I don’t think so, evidence suggests otherwise.  wink

Buona Serata!

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By tgambill, September 2, 2009 at 9:47 am Link to this comment

I could ask the same thing and you will in some way discredit the author or have read it before and found it errant.  smile  no Annie, God is real and Jesus Christ is who he says he is and it will be apparent in due time.

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By Annie Reitano, September 2, 2009 at 9:31 am Link to this comment

By tgambill, September 2 at 7:51 am #


Really?  I am impressed!  You have read all these books and cross referenced them and everything?  I mean some of that stuff goes way back before your time.  :D

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By tgambill, September 2, 2009 at 4:51 am Link to this comment

Annie, we can share as many books as one wants too but you will find that most all of the anti-Christ books have no truthful or solid backing only personal opinions from atheist or New Age belivers.  Its your choice, I offered.  The one you are including are mostly bunk as they cannot offer any factual references and they have unsure statements to include the Vatican and this anti-Christ Shockly.  You are only hurting yourself.  So, forget the truth I sent you and go with the books that make you comfortable.  Just remember that soon a great revival is coming.

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By Annie Reitano, September 2, 2009 at 1:53 am Link to this comment

Books for your referencing:

“The case against Christianity,” by Michael Martin. 

“The Jesus Puzzle. Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ?”

[Quote from Doherty]: “If Jesus was a ‘social reformer’ whose teachings began the Christian movement, as today’s liberal scholars now style him, how can such a Jesus be utterly lacking in all the New Testament epistles, while only a cosmic Christ is to be found?”

“Critique of the Gospels and History of Their Origin” -Bruno Bauer, 19th century theologian.

“Why I am Not a Christian”-Bertrand Russell

“Historically, it is quite doubtful whether Christ ever existed at all, and if He did we do not know anything about Him.”  (regarding the altering, re-translations, and unreliability of the Bible).

*****Pope Leo X (1513-1521): Some believe that he considered Jesus to be a mere legend. Barbara Walker in her Woman’s Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets,  quotes him as as having said “What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!” 
*****Rev. Taylor, in The Diegesis, Page 35, has a slightly different quote “It was well known how profitable this fable of Christ has been to us.” 
****The Catholic Encyclopedia refers to a widely circulated remark: “How much we and our family have profited by the legend of Christ, is sufficiently evident to all ages.”


Christos is a Greek word meaning Messiah or annointed one, and Jews do not recognise Jesus as real at all.  Even though he is spoken of in the Talmud which was written several years after the beginning of Christianity (first century), and the authors of the Talmud were basing their writings on the dozens of Christian gospels which were circulating at the time.  They never recognised Jesus as real, and certainly not the “Christ”.

There are many more if you like.  Just let me know.

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By Annie Reitano, September 2, 2009 at 1:53 am Link to this comment

Books for your referencing:

“The case against Christianity,” by Michael Martin. 

“The Jesus Puzzle. Did Christianity Begin with a Mythical Christ?”

[Quote from Doherty]: “If Jesus was a ‘social reformer’ whose teachings began the Christian movement, as today’s liberal scholars now style him, how can such a Jesus be utterly lacking in all the New Testament epistles, while only a cosmic Christ is to be found?”

“Critique of the Gospels and History of Their Origin” -Bruno Bauer, 19th century theologian.

“Why I am Not a Christian”-Bertrand Russell

“Historically, it is quite doubtful whether Christ ever existed at all, and if He did we do not know anything about Him.”  (regarding the altering, re-translations, and unreliability of the Bible).

*****Pope Leo X (1513-1521): Some believe that he considered Jesus to be a mere legend. Barbara Walker in her Woman’s Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets,  quotes him as as having said “What profit has not that fable of Christ brought us!” 
*****Rev. Taylor, in The Diegesis, Page 35, has a slightly different quote “It was well known how profitable this fable of Christ has been to us.” 
****The Catholic Encyclopedia refers to a widely circulated remark: “How much we and our family have profited by the legend of Christ, is sufficiently evident to all ages.”


Christos is a Greek word meaning Messiah or annointed one, and Jews do not recognise Jesus as real at all.  Even though he is spoken of in the Talmud which was written several years after the beginning of Christianity (first century), and the authors of the Talmud were basing their writings on the dozens of Christian gospels which were circulating at the time.  They never recognised Jesus as real, and certainly not the “Christ”.

There are many more if you like.  Just let me know.

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By Annie Reitano, September 1, 2009 at 11:52 pm Link to this comment

I love to read!  I read all the time. Feel free to provide me with reference material that can validate. :D

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By tgambill, September 1, 2009 at 11:34 pm Link to this comment

Actually the evidence is overwhelming and exceeds most figures in our history from Biblical times. The problem is that you would have to read about it.

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By Annie Reitano, September 1, 2009 at 11:20 pm Link to this comment

well, Tom, when you can show me impirical evidence that this person Jesus Christ truly even existed,...I will not use the ever offensive word “supposed”.  :D

The problem is:  you cannot.  So, until someone proves that he even existed..I will use that word.

“How dare you not believe in the Lord God Fonzarelli!  How about I knock your teeth right down your throat, Lois?  Okay, I know that was a bit over the top, but that’s how you’re supposed to be when your faith is challenged”.  -The Family Guy.

haha

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By tgambill, September 1, 2009 at 11:11 pm Link to this comment

lol…supposed jesus Christ.  I love your clever rhetorical examples.

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By Annie Reitano, September 1, 2009 at 11:05 pm Link to this comment

Wow, Sheno!  I am so impressed!  None of the parables of the supposed Jesus Christ are nearly as beautiful as that one you just typed.  Good on you!!

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By Shenonymous, September 1, 2009 at 9:45 pm Link to this comment

The Omen, I just don’t think I could stomach it. Annie  I did watch Rosemary’s Baby, what a hoot “As If.”  A retelling of a Faustian bargain. A woman as prostituted again by a self-serving man.  And to think a man wrote the story!  All predicated on the idea that heaven and hell exist.  Them Catholics will do anything to scare the crap out of everyone so they can go to the confessional!  It is called job security for priests.  The Omen, what another hoot.

Once upon a time, a man with a certain military bearing approached the Zen master Hakuin and asked: “Master, do Heaven and Hell actually exist?”

The master wanted to answer in the affirmative, but knew that this would give the man a false impression. In all likelihood the man operated under the mundane paradigm that Heaven and Hell exist as places for souls in the afterlife. The master knew what he must do to break through that false preconception.

“What is your occupation?” He asked.

“I’m a general.” This explained the military bearing about him.

The master burst out laughing. “What idiot would ask you to command an army? You look more like a butcher to me!”

This enraged the general. With a roar he drew his sword. He could cut down this defenseless old man in an instant.

“Here lie the gates of Hell,” said the master. These simple words stopped the powerful general dead in his tracks.

Realization flooded in. The general suddenly understood that the master had risked his life in order to teach him a great truth in the most effective way imaginable.

“Forgive me, master, for what I was about to do.” He felt all at once gratitude, amazement, and shame.

“Here lie the gates of Heaven,” said the master.

Ah so.

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By tgambill, August 31, 2009 at 11:16 pm Link to this comment

Annie, I wish that I had theories.  I have evidence and by their own admissions they tell the story.  Even FDR on March 4, 1939.  I have his quote to confirm.

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By tgambill, August 31, 2009 at 11:13 pm Link to this comment

Christian96, you hit the head exactly.  I have nothing more to add

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By Annie Reitano, August 31, 2009 at 7:16 pm Link to this comment

:D Sheno!  You’ve never seen “The Omen”  It’s literary genius, really.  I highly recommend the entire Damien Thorne trilogy to everyone.  Right along with “Rosemary’s Baby”.  Talk about great cinematic feats!  At the end everyone is hailing Satan and praising the baby ‘cause of course the devil came and raped Rosemary after giving her a “roofie”—but only after her hubby gave his consent and sold his soul to the beast with the pitchfork so his acting career would take off.  And so she gives birth to his son and ..well, he looks like a wolf.  And people are all just going gah gah over this hairy baby who “has his father’s eyes”. :D

Time for me to get some sleep now that I am all scared and stuff. :D

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By Shenonymous, August 31, 2009 at 7:03 pm Link to this comment

I never saw The Omen.  I hated those kinds of movies, I never sat through Linda Blair’s head spinning either.  Good grief.  How the Catholics and Jews in Hollywood become billionaires by scaring the shit out of everybody.  It is hysterical.  Based on a true story?  Mannnn, I laughed my head off reading your post.  I’m still laughing.  Thanks for the hoot.  Now about this jackal thing.  I thought he was a in-it-for-himself assassin?  There’s quite a few of those around.  They are truly scary. 

You, Annie, are so funny.  I’m still laughing!!! 

Okay you are going for Damien Thorne, so okay it could be the Damien Thorn Ultimatum, the Damien Thorne Supremacy, or the Damien Thorne Identity.  DTU, DTS, DTI.  Heck you could have a series.  Well I’m going to go slide down the rabbit hole for now.  Tamarra is another day.

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By Annie Reitano, August 31, 2009 at 6:10 pm Link to this comment

I’ve always pandered to the theory that it’s Damien Thorne running things.  After all, he was born of a jackel and his father is the devil.  So, you know…and that is a true story. You can tell because it was made into a movie, and movies and the media always tell the truth.  It says right at the biginning of “The Omen”..“Based on a True Story”—from the actual account of John on the Isle of patmos 2000 years ago and recorded in the book of Revelation. 

The only thing that I worry about is…the whole jackel thing.  I mean I read the book, and there were dragons and other creatures…but I don’t recall a jackel.  I think Hollywood doctored that part to make it more “believeable”. raspberry

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By Shenonymous, August 31, 2009 at 3:24 pm Link to this comment

Annie.  Da debble is running things.  My very precocious niece sent me a 50s vintage postcard, it says “WE ARE ALL GOING TO HELL!”  I laughed my head off. Cause it came true!

I don’t know about going to heaven, or hell.  But I do no this, the crazies are trying to run the show.

Yes I have noticed how everything that is good for you is so bloody damn expensive.  They don’t put bad things in foods that they used to put in in the first place, like sugar, salt, MSG, saturated fat, then they charge us for not putting them in!  Doing!!!!! It must be Alice’s favorite place.  Or was it the Walrus’s?

I think it is the White Rabbit Conspiracy.  I call it the WRC.  What do you think?  I mean tgambill and christian96 have theories, we might as well have ours too.

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By christian96, August 31, 2009 at 2:14 pm Link to this comment

The Bible predicts the time will come when a world
leader referred to as the ANTICHRIST will force
everyone to take a mark in their right hand or
forehead before they can buy and sell.  If you refuse
to take the mark you will be killed.  For this to
happen requires a one world govenment and economy.
This meeting in Pittsburgh is just another move in
that direction.  Things are happening rapidly and
OUT IN THE OPEN.  The designers of the one world
government use to meet secretly.  Now they are
meeting out in the open.  They are spitting in our
face and there is nothing we can do about it. DON’T
TAKE THE MARK!

SATAN AND THE FALLEN ANGELS ARE RUNNING THE SHOW!

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By Annie Reitano, August 31, 2009 at 7:04 am Link to this comment

HAHA Sheno.  You’re going to heaven!  xian96 said so.

Did you ever notice how everything that’s good for you is really expensive?  No wonder people are dying from cancer.  It’s cheaper to eat at McDonald’s than to buy a good amount of fresh veggies and fruits.

God is part of the illuminati.  I can tell by the prices of things..he’s conspiring to kill us all so that we will go to the devil.  Who’s running the show here?

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By Shenonymous, August 31, 2009 at 6:25 am Link to this comment

You are most welcome christian96...

And the Bible also says…
He that hath knowledge spareth his words: and a man of understanding is of an excellent spirit.

and…
There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labor.

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By christian96, August 31, 2009 at 5:04 am Link to this comment

Shenonymous—-I appreciate the knowledge you shared.
The Bible reads, “My people perish for a LACK OF
KNOWLEDGE!”  Keep up the good work.

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By Shenonymous, August 31, 2009 at 4:49 am Link to this comment

Good morning christian96  I’m glad you are having a healthy breakfast. Mc’s burgers are not that bad anymore and you may have had your salad on the bun with it.  The FFs were the killers. 

Blueberries have more antioxidants.  But strawberries have a high amount of Vitamin C and a good amount of manganese. 
The virtue of blueberries:
Packed with antioxidant phytonutrients called anthocyanidins, blueberries neutralize free radical damage to the collagen matrix of cells and tissues that can lead to cataracts, glaucoma, varicose veins, hemorrhoids, peptic ulcers, heart disease and cancer.

Strawberries:
Strawberries, like other berries, are famous in the phytonutrient world as a rich surce of phenols. In the strawberry, these phenols are led by the anthocyanins (especially anthocyanin 2) and by the ellagitannins. The anthocyanins in strawberry not only provide its flush red color, they also serve as potent antioxidants that have repeatedly been shown to help protect cell structures in the body and to prevent oxygen damage in all of the body’s organ systems. Strawberries’ unique phenol content makes them a heart-protective fruit, an anti-cancer fruit, and an anti-inflammatory fruit, all rolled into one. The anti-inflammatory properties of strawberry include the ability of phenols in this fruit to lessen activity of the enzyme cyclo-oxygenase.

Yogurt: for A Longer Life
The best quality yogurt contains live bacteria that provides a host of health benefits. Yogurt that contains live bacterial cultures may help you to live longer, and may fortify your immune system and a daily serving of probiotic-rich yogurt bolsters your body’s ability to protect you from infection.

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By christian96, August 31, 2009 at 4:27 am Link to this comment

Tgambill—-I forgot to mention what I am eating for
breakfast.  I just cleaned 12 strawberries. I am
going to eat them with some nonfat yogurt.  How’s
that for building the old immune system.

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By christian96, August 31, 2009 at 4:18 am Link to this comment

Tgambill—-I did the math.  I have a system where
I can covert words into numbers.  When converted to
numbers “a weakened immune system” totals 2,180.  When a zero follows a number it is acentuating that
number.  Therefore, 218 is being acentuated in 2,180.
When translated into a number “death” totals 218.
I need to get my book completed.  Thanks for the
message.

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 9:59 pm Link to this comment

Actually Mcdonalds are a connected family with the Illuminati.  Do the math, link with a weakened Immune system and Junk food. 

It’s about free will over those influences.

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By christian96, August 30, 2009 at 7:49 pm Link to this comment

I put my clothes on, opened the door and walked
towards my car.  Lightning was flashing from one
end of the sky to the other.  Thunder was rolling
in the distance.  The Holy Angels were trying to
stop me.  I kept hearing the thoughts.  “Stop. Go
back in the house.  Make the salad.”  Lightning
rippled across the sky as I turned the key to start
my car.  The fallen angels said, “You can start
your diet tomorrow!  As I drove towards McDonalds
the fireworks in the sky was awesome.  No rain.
Just lightning and thunder.  Now I’m home.  The bag
from McDonalds beckons to my left.  I am going to
do what I don’t want to do.  I am going to consume
the junk food.  The fallen angels won again.  I can
repent tomorrow.  Somehow, that reminds me of Scarlet O’Hara.  The fallen angels plagued poor
Scarlet.  Good-bye fellow humans.  It’s munch time!

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By christian96, August 30, 2009 at 6:59 pm Link to this comment

To All Earthlings——Beware of fallen angels on earth.  They are all around us but since they live
in a dimension beyond ours we can’t see them.  Through manipulating electrons in our brain they
can control our thoughts.  In the Bible the Apostle
Paul makes the statement, “I do what I don’t want
to do and I don’t do what I want to do.”  Can you
relate to Paul?  I can!  As I sit at this keyboard
there are tomatoes, cucumbers, green peppers in my
kitchen.  I want to go make myself a salad topped
with vinegar and oil.  The nutrition will be good
for my body.  However, the fallen angels are at
work.  They want to destroy me.  I don’t want a
quarterpounder with cheese, a large order of french
fries smothered with ketchup, and a large diet coke.
But the thoughts keep plaguing me.  There is a
McDonalds only one mile from my house.  I want to eat
the salad.  I don’t want the garbage from McDonalds.
So long dear commarades.  I’m off to McDonalds!

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By Shenonymous, August 30, 2009 at 10:11 am Link to this comment

I see, I get it.  I think. You are posting directly into the forum comment box.  Way…lll, I’ve been at this posting stuff a long time.  I just do my comments in my wordprocessor like Microsoft Word then I copy and paste into the box at the bottom, then submit.  I don’t have much wait time.  It allows me to edit mistakes a lot easier before posting a submit, although I don’t always catch all of them.  Sometimes the typos are real blunders.  But I just say serendipity! 

Try the wordprocessor copy/paste method.  It never fails for me, ‘cept for my bloody typos.

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 10:08 am Link to this comment

No, it while you type.  Annie described it very well.

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By Shenonymous, August 30, 2009 at 10:06 am Link to this comment

whaddaya mean jelly bean?  Sluggish?  Do you mean the time it takes once you post at the bottom of the forum, to when it shows up at the Thank you for your comments page?  Or once you click on the topic title to go to the forum?

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 10:06 am Link to this comment

I sent them a note just now.  The typing for the note on the home page was normal.

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

It is massively frustrating.  I’ll send them a note.

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By Annie Reitano, August 30, 2009 at 9:51 am Link to this comment

Hey Shenonymous!

Good to see you.  I think we’ll both get attacked more than once here.  Nothing new.

Tom, the site is more than sluggish.  It’s crap right now.  I type and the words come out well after I am done.

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 8:04 am Link to this comment

Sheno, when you type your comments is your typing sluggish or does it type normal?  Mine is very sluggish and not very responsive.

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By Shenonymous, August 30, 2009 at 7:48 am Link to this comment

I am so happy to hear from both of you.  Glad to see Annie still has it all under control, as if she wouldn’t, duh! and tgambill still the mostest Illuminati tracker.  I feel safe knowing you are watching, tgambill.  I know I know, Annie...we must conciliate with him, because he really is charming, you have to admit.  Looney as his theories are, they are not the looniest on the planet. (Oh oh, he will get me for that!)  I just like checking in now and then.  I so much like both of you.  Tom when ‘They’ make their move, you will let us know, won’t you?  Family has to take care of one another.  I promise, I did not say that with tongue in cheek, and don’t make any comment about that one.  I know someone like christian96 will get me for that.  He just lies in wait, also like a….  Oh well…slithering sighs.

I see we are in the snake pit!  What fun!  Just so they aren’t rattlers, water moccasins, or copperheads!  I feel right at home!  Just like being in The Garden.  Tom, it was more than curiosity.  I really do care!  How’ve you been?  Annie too?  I could say I am even beginning to care how christian96 is.  I hope your lives are going well.  Mine is going swimmingly, well there’s no pool around here, so maybe I should find a better word, how about gardeningly since I am building a fabulous compost bin.  I don’t think they needed a compost bin in The Garden.  So guess I’m not in there, up there, over there???? wherever!  Guess no weeds there either nor plant food for nutrients needed either, right?  I often wonder if Adam and Eve ate?  Did they eat meat?  Did they have outhouses?  Were these guys really human?  I mean with all the functioning humans have?  I read where they ran around naked!  Guess the Middle East does have a kind of temperate climate.  And getting ready for the new school semester to start up soon.  It has been quite a good summer.

Thanks again, tgambill for all the cautions. It is always good to end with a parenthetical.  Do we have to have a West Virginia?  (just joking, I mean what would we do with all those who live there, and once lived there?) 

She mumbles as She walks away, wasn’t there one bad snake in The Garden, and two Forbidden Trees (Knowledge and Life)?  Oh my, oh my.

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 7:37 am Link to this comment

“Don’t you call me deceptive until you can stop with the scary tales for the sake of selling the drama and the agenda that kills people EVERYDAY”

*****oh, by the way, wait until WHO declares a world wide flu pandemic, when there isn’t one in order to give the flu shots which will start the pandemic.  Also, when they finally kick off WWIII you haven’t seen scary yet.

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 7:12 am Link to this comment

Annie, you will find examples all through history, where the consiracy was revealed.  Captain Morgan in the 1830’s, Robison’s work, Congressman Larry McDonald, JFK, Eisenhower, Norman Dodd, the release of the Iron Mountain Report, and many many more.  Most involves Masons, the Illuminati order, secret societies in the colleges and revelations from members upon they have developing conscience or death bed confessions, etc…

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 7:06 am Link to this comment

I was being “caddy” I could use families in North Carolina hills wherever, where in fact many do inbreed due to living conditions and cultural differences, it could be Ak, or any state.  Actually even wealthy families have fathers “messing” with daughters, cousins messing with cousins, and brothers messing with sisters.

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By christian96, August 30, 2009 at 6:55 am Link to this comment

Tgambill——Since my formative years were spent in
West Virginia, I would like to know more about your
phrase “families in West Virginia.”  Can you be more
specific?  Thanks.

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 6:53 am Link to this comment

Wrong concerning your perception.  The term of conspiracy theory is damage control when the truth was leaked out since John Robison’s “proofs of a Conspiracy” to now.  Members of this conspiracy has leaked out the information.  Number 2, you don’t know or you know and are a shill, but the Illuminati like to be arrogrant and they use codes but they put the conspiracy out for public knowledge to hide it in plain sight.  Sorry, you lose and your side loses in the short term.  I actually pity them when their Master Lucifer turns on them and he will.  Their end will be horrific.

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By eileen fleming, August 30, 2009 at 5:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

RE: Secrets, conspiracies, patriotism and ignorance

“Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the president or any other public official.”-Theodore Roosevelt

“The American Israel Public Affairs Committee from the 1963 Fulbright Hearings to the 2005 Espionage Scandal” by G.F. Smith, exposes how US Middle East policy has been formulated and thrives due to the dearth of relevant reporting on AIPAC’s activities. This book should be read by every American tax payer, Congress and foreign policy maker.

It begins with Senator Fulbright’s on target questions to Jewish-Agency-funded US foreign agents who did not register with the Justice Department or disclose their true financing, funding flows and covert activities and illuminates how AIPAC: the American Israel Public Affairs Committee operates “within a murky nexus regulated by four important but seldom enforced US laws.” [1]


The lax enforcement of The Logan Act, The Foreign Agents Registration Act/FARA, the 1917 Espionage Act, Thompson Memorandum guidelines for prosecuting corporate crime coupled with the fear of being labeled anti-Semitic and a media who have failed at their commission to seek and report the truth have all colluded to exert an undue influence over Congress and thus; we the people of America to be “under the de facto influence of a powerful foreign interest.” [2]


The Rest:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=959&Itemid=202

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By Annie Reitano, August 30, 2009 at 3:03 am Link to this comment

By tgambill, August 30 at 4:29 am #

Tom, conspirators are plotters of secret operations.  Thus the phrase “Conspiracy theories”..ie. no one knows for sure…it’s all about those well kept secrets..or NOT maybe.  THEORIES. 

There’s nothing sercetive about what’s happening to the US.  They’ve not hidden much in their spending for war and their religious hatred and intolerance of other countries and religons. They’ve been shedding blood for power and control for years.  I first heard about US communism 26 years ago.  I remmember exactly whre I was and who was talking.  And I believed him fully.  It was obvious to me then, just as it is obvious to me now.  There’s no “conspiracy” to soemthing that’s so widely known.

I am sorry for making fun of your disorder, though.  I do feel badly about the delusions..I truly do.  And it can’t be fun for you to actually believe some of the stuff you say.  I think it must be a very difficult life.  One led by fear, I imagine.

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 1:36 am Link to this comment

I never said it was a great place, I pointed out that the people are but the government isn’t.  The royal family are mostly interbred and masonic.  Like some families in West Virgina or the distance hills in England.  smile

I know that the Constitution was written by Masons from England to be one of the biggest ruse in the history of the US.  The English Masons are evil as are their siblings and family history.  Americans have been deceived and will find out shortly.

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 1:29 am Link to this comment

smile)  this is amazing.  You actually admit in your own words that we are heading to be a communist government but acting like it happens like this every day.  that to make it a communist government it would take a conspiracy to set it up.  DUH!!!!

lol

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By Annie Reitano, August 30, 2009 at 1:26 am Link to this comment

Ok, I didn’t spell Martial Law right ..I guess you didn’t know what I was talking about and must automatically be smarter than I am and therefore right.  *rolls eyes*  I can’t imagine how you figured out what I meant.  You’re a genius. It’s 10:00 in the a.m. where I am, Tom.  And so what?

You never mentioned anything about Martial Law that I ever disagreed with to my recollection.  But the other trash you peddle is religious, political fantacism that you hoight out as the truth when you do NOT know that to be true at all.  Who’s the liar here?  Don’t you call me deceptive until you can stop with the scary tales for the sake of selling the drama and the agenda that kills people EVERYDAY

Can YOU spell schizophrenia?  Good.  Now spell Thorazine. Then go take some.  Becaues you are as looney as they come if you think the US is the greatest place on earth.  You of all people, should know better since you sell it’s corruption on the net all the time.  It’s not a great land…never was.

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 1:21 am Link to this comment

google the 32 dead girls due to the cervical cancer vaccine.  You will find that its true for starters.  Sheno can find out for herself and confirm every thing I’ve written.  Just courious, Are your one of the wacked out Eastern Star Cult members??  You know, the group that mates with the Masonic Luciferian cult members?

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By tgambill, August 30, 2009 at 1:04 am Link to this comment

Nothing remotely has come true? Annie, You are caddy, and very much a deceiving woman.  Sheno just wrote because of curiousity.  You out of nowhere come up with negative and lying comments.  You cover your tracks like a true coward and deceiver.  You admit that it could be true and at the same time say that it isn’t.  First of all you can’t even spell Martial law.  You admit that the states are headed for martial law.  You don’t have a clue how or why.  You are one of the ones that aren’t the brave.  You see you are the traitor and you are the liar.  It is the home of the brave and most courageous on Earth.  The Government controls the truth and set ups the wars and good people who have faith have followed their leaders.  Its deceivers and liars like you and others like you that lack any faith or courage that has got us here.  Sheno for example is straight and even though disagrees with me, she says so and then moves on with no malace.  You on the other hand deny and admit all at the same time?  You don’t even know what you are doing or the obvious deception you have put yourself in.  Its sad. 

Martial law just didn’t appear from nowhere or for nothing.  I have direct quotes and irrefutable historical accounts.  You have nothing!!!!


Nothing you have ever mentioned has even remotely come true.  Why would I read this propaganda and expect it to be actual fact?  And let’s say it is.  So what?  Like everyone would be surprised that Marshall Law were in effect in the USA.  Anyone who reads knows the states are headed straight for communism.  Maybe not today..but someday it won’t be “the land of the free”..and I don’t believe it ever should have been dubbed “the home of the brave”.  I have another slogan I would use for it.

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By Annie Reitano, August 30, 2009 at 12:30 am Link to this comment

Tom, I just want to say that you are a creepy reptile.  You’re like a freaked out, cracked up chameleon who changes colours in psychotic fashion.  I mean that with all respect.  *rolls eyes*

Nothing you have ever mentioned has even remotely come true.  Why would I read this propaganda and expect it to be actual fact?  And let’s say it is.  So what?  Like everyone would be surprised that Marshall Law were in effect in the USA.  Anyone who reads knows the states are headed straight for communism.  Maybe not today..but someday it won’t be “the land of the free”..and I don’t believe it ever should have been dubbed “the home of the brave”.  I have another slogan I would use for it. smile

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By tgambill, August 29, 2009 at 5:52 pm Link to this comment

So, Sheno thanks for the post.  Annie, heads up.  Google A new law passed by the state Senate in Massachusetts calls for mandatory vaccinations of all citizens and a $1,000 / day fine for those who refuse to cooperate. It also legalizes health care “interrogations” of Mass. citizens, forced entry into homes without a warrant, the on-site destruction of buildings or objects suspected of harboring the virus, the government kidnapping of family pets, “involuntary transportation” of people into quarantine camps. 

A new law passed by the state Senate in Massachusetts calls for mandatory vaccinations of all citizens and a $1,000 / day fine for those who refuse to cooperate. It also legalizes health care “interrogations” of Mass. citizens, forced entry into homes without a warrant, the on-site destruction of buildings or objects suspected of harboring the virus, the government kidnapping of family pets, “involuntary transportation” of people into quarantine camps.  “Hallibutton” wink)  built the camps.  (Haliburton)

http://www.naturalnews.com/026934_health_public_health_quarantine.html

Google WHO setting up a world flu pandemic…....soon.

Now they will make other states pass the same law.  A law was passed in Texas in 2007 to require cervical cancer vaccinations.  It was over turned in two months.  It is not up to 32 girls died from the vaccine and over 11,000 injured.  It is connected. State of MD tried the same thing but with a different vaccine.  Sneaky.

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By tgambill, August 29, 2009 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

Annie, you have no clue and you are a snake, in all respect of course.  I would guess that this is your background.  You see, you have no evidence that it was not masonic, only your sly putdowns and not background evidence or anything related.  Five prostitutes learned a secret or two several clients that only a handfull of powerful men in Britin knew. Its was very damaging to the monarch.

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By tgambill, August 29, 2009 at 3:26 pm Link to this comment

My dear Annie and Sheno…..all is well.  I’m sitting here just watching the conspiracy move on along just as I have said it would.  By the way, Jack the Ripper murders were in fact based on a Masonic damage control.  If you were to look up the information you would find this to be true.

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By Annie Reitano, August 29, 2009 at 2:50 pm Link to this comment

Hey Sheonoymous,

I have given up on Tom.  He lives in his head of conspiracy theories.  Not a lot going on up there..if you know what I mean. wink

Christ on a crutch!  Try it.  Mention anyone’s name and they’re sure to be linked with the Free Masons and/or the illuminati—even Jack the Ripper.  Everyone but Tom is out to get everyone.

It does bother me, though, that schizophrenic paranoia always seems to tetch the nicest of people.

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By Shenonymous, August 29, 2009 at 7:17 am Link to this comment

Hey Annie and tgambill, how are ya?  Just keeping in touch.

The innocent, Shenonymous
Oh yeah.

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By tgambill, June 3, 2009 at 8:41 pm Link to this comment

ward….what is heresy?  The fact that the Masons and the Illuminati are preparing for their world government and the extermination of millions shortly or heresy that the article is bunk?

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By WardF, June 3, 2009 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

HERESY!!!

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By tgambill, April 28, 2009 at 6:16 pm Link to this comment

http://www.javno.com/en-world/swine-flu-created-in-lab-as-bio-weapon_254118

this is only the beginning…..the North American Union was signed two years ago.  The flu will be used to justify the swine flu vaccine.  the vaccine is designed to reduce the immune system and start the killing once the chemtrails are mixed with the weaponized strain.  Its a fact that the cervical cancer vaccine has a serialization ingredient in it and that Texas made it manditory by law for two months before having it overturned.  the Cervical cancer vaccine has in fact killed over 11 girls and permanently damaged scores others.  thats not conspiracy when it happened and it was engineered to support kissingers NSSM 200 Depopulation plan.

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By tgambill, April 28, 2009 at 6:10 pm Link to this comment

“Well,  Tom, you keep repeating the same things over and over, and I have to tell you: I have noticed that your M.O. is never peace, or love or brotherhood.”

*****Its reality and telling you what is coming.  I can tell you if you jump off a building that you could bounce, you might get carried by a gust of wind, or you might land on a mattress but the reality is there is solid concrete there and humpty dumpty wouldn’t agree about you jumping.  Squish….gravity is very real.

“No, you are into scarytales to get people to believe what you want.”

*****I get nothing for people to believe in what I believe, I belong to no group, no agenda and I get nothing out of it.  I am telling you what is happening for real and what is going to happen so that it won’t be a surprise. 

“Warn me all you like; God is dead in the hearts of people and he was dead a long time ago in the fundamentals of people’s true beliefs.  Sure everyone has a story based on Pascal’s Wager..(just in case)...but no one lives like the Bible or Qur’aan teach…becfause it’s impossible.”


******Nope, not impossible at all.  that was the purpose of Jesus coming to us.  It was impossible before Jesus but not after.  Pascals wager might be better off in Vegas. 

“In my line of work there is only one conclusion to made regarding your state of mind.  You are crazy.”

******lol…..stand in line. 

“Of course it is a moot point to tell you this because crazy people don’t know they’re crazy.  But indeed, you live and breathe off of conspiracy theories”

*****The swine flu was engineered from the bird flu and the outbreaks follow the NAFTA highway exactly.  There are in fact, and its not theory, Chinese and Russian military units deployed in Mexico.  the history I’ve told you is irrefutable and supported by scholarly references and can’t be refuted.  Now, that is not theory.  I’m warning people to get ready and there is 100% chance this conspiracy is real.  NO ONE can refute the root system nor the events in history that has happened which is not theory because they actually happened. 

*****Annie, I would eat Sam Harris alive and spit him out in short order.  Not a problem.  The facts would be based on four dimensional thinking, in essence all theory and unrelated facts that are fabricated into a sequence that resembles facts leading to a false conclusion. 


“but you cannot believe a man in the 21st century who actually reasons, philosophises, and KNOWS a thing or twelve.”

*****I believe eyewitnesses and as you say, I certainly don’t believe a man that will be a flash in a pan like so many that have come and gone.  a man in the 21st century…..2,000 years later…hmmmm, verses eyewitnesses….hmmmm let me do the math.  smile)

“You’re crazy.  I am sorry.  I cannot speak to you again.  There’s no pill I can give you; there is nothing I can say.  You’re a sick man, however clever at times.  But even Jack the Ripper was clever.”

****Jack the Ripper?  Google Jack the Ripper in fact was Masonic covered murders due to a prostitute or two learning about the world conspiracy.  Google this if you dare or live in a shade tree.  He killed the others to make it look like a serial killer to cover the real cause.  Never caught him did they??  true story.

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By Annie Reitano, April 28, 2009 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

Well,  Tom, you keep repeating the same things over and over, and I have to tell you: I have noticed that your M.O. is never peace, or love or brotherhood.  No, you are into scarytales to get people to believe what you want.  Warn me all you like; God is dead in the hearts of people and he was dead a long time ago in the fundamentals of people’s true beliefs.  Sure everyone has a story based on Pascal’s Wager..(just in case)...but no one lives like the Bible or Qur’aan teach…becfause it’s impossible.

In my line of work there is only one conclusion to made regarding your state of mind.  You are crazy.  Of course it is a moot point to tell you this because crazy people don’t know they’re crazy.  But indeed, you live and breathe off of conspiracy theories, scary religious beliefs that serve only to deify yourself, and delusions of grandeur that everyone is wrong and anti-xian except for you.  You are the special agent of God…in your mind.

There is NOTHING you could even say if you were face to face with Sam Harris.  He would rip all or your theories to shreds with facts.  So your statement against him is just ridiculous.  You believe men from 2000 years ago who, though hearsay tell you (in your head) “god told me to tell you”...but you cannot believe a man in the 21st century who actually reasons, philosophises, and KNOWS a thing or twelve. 

You’re crazy.  I am sorry.  I cannot speak to you again.  There’s no pill I can give you; there is nothing I can say.  You’re a sick man, however clever at times.  But even Jack the Ripper was clever.

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By tgambill, April 27, 2009 at 9:52 pm Link to this comment

Second part…

“So Tom, you see, when we stop questioning things, we become delusional and base our beliefs on things that are harmful, hurtful, and most of all deadly.  Things that cannot be proven, seen or shown to have a backing of evidence will always destroy.”

*****no, when we don’t accept his loving grace and if we obeyed his commandments we would not be in the shape we are in.  The religious have disobeyed his laws, mankind has disobeyed his laws, we have turned our backs on truth and what he brought to earth.  What is destroying is man’s greed, evil and fabrications by making up alleged evidence.  Helgelian Dialectic. 

“I will never stop with this quest, and many others feel the same.  Atheism is understanding that, while there are no “proofs” of the lack of written gods, there is plenty of evidence, both scientific and logical.”

****this is the warning…this quest will be brought to a standstill as mens hearts will fail them for fear and tribulations of what they will soon experience.

“And if your “god” doesn’t want or need you to understand him in his different dimension, then why you bother at all trying to “speak truth on his behalf” is going to be the final conundrum here.”

*****Thats an easy question….because he is the creator and we love him as he loved us enough that he sent his only son to take our punishment for disobeying his word.  We can have everlasing life just by believing.  But his love is that of a parent as we are his children.

“If you cannot understand him, try not to speak for “him”. Otherewise you’re really just speaking on your own behalf, are you not?”

*****sure, if we don’t understand him.  However, we do understand him.  The Bible is written word and the Holy Spirit confirms…..he reveals himself through the HS and the Bible.  It is supernatual. 

“Afterall, as anyone who is rational can see, all gods are imaginary.”

*****Most of the Gods are Nephilim of the past and there is only one true God of Abraham and Jacob…Jesus and the Holy Spirit are the same God but with different missions and different dimensions. 

“Especially your’s as you’ve demonstrated him here to be in a different dimension, uncapable of being understood and yet extremely vengeful to those who CANNOT understand given the contradictions—even though he doesn’t need them to understand.
Your god is imaginary.”

*****He was not in a different dimension.  He came to us as one of us, humble, and died with real blood shed…sounds like our dimension to me.  This is a good point.  This was the VERY reason he came down as Jesus to be with us and be like us but live a perfect life….

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By tgambill, April 27, 2009 at 9:51 pm Link to this comment

continued…

Research…...confirmed this..

August 15, 1871 - Now, can any thinking person doubt that the intrigue now going on in the near Middle and far East is designed to accomplish that satanic objective? Albert Pike himself foretold all this in a statement he made to Mazzini. Pike stated that after World War III is ended; those who will aspire to undisputed world domination will provoke the greatest social cataclysm the world has ever known. Quoting his [Albert Pike] own words taken from the letter he wrote to Mazzini and which letter is now catalogued in the British Museum in London, England; he said:
 
“We shall unleash the nihilists and the atheists and we shall provoke a great social cataclysm which in all its horror will show clearly to all nations the effect of absolute atheism; the origins of savagery and of most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the people will be forced to defend themselves against the world minority of the world revolutionaries and will exterminate those destroyers of civilization and the multitudes disillusioned with Christianity whose spirits will be from that moment without direction and leadership and anxious for an ideal, but without knowledge where to send its adoration, will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer brought finally out into public view. A manifestation which will result from a general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and Atheism; both ! conquered and exterminated at the same time.”

Now you won’t find this bit of trivia in the history books…but its also supported by irrefutable research…..I have the original book and in very good condition, Red Fog Over America….on the market worth several hundred dollars meaning, its a confirmed source of true history. 

FDR, true traitor and set up the first attempt at bringing our country under a dictatorship in 1933 to 1935 but it failed thanks to Major General Smedley Butler, USMC….“Plot to Seize the White House” by Jules Archer. 

March 4, 1939 - Quote from a report of the secret committee by President Roosevelt,;

“I am making no concessions to business, or for relief.  I have a military machine sufficient to stop any organized revolt.  I am putting MY PEOPLE ahead of all instruments.  I’ll have had a full understanding with Chamberlain, and we will destroy this unemployed condition with a WAR, and a WAR only.  To Hell with the American people, as far as a Democracy is concerned.  It does not exist.  It never did, and we will never let it happen that way.  I am going to crush business, infest America with all the aliens possible, and in the last analysis, declare Martial Law, and confiscate everything I need for a true and forceful Dictatorship.  My New Deal is a failure, and I know it, but no one else will tell me that I must discontinue my present activities, and program.” 


From the Secret Audience with the Military Appropriation Committee;
The Ways and Means Committee;
The Special War Finance Committee;

This copy was presented to me by mail through Senator Lundeen.”   

“The Red Fog Over America” by William Guy Carr, 1955.

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By tgambill, April 27, 2009 at 9:39 pm Link to this comment

Sam Harris???  smile) now there some credible sources…...lol


“Recently there has been a change in the christian community: Many members of the christian faith are embracing evolution. For example, there is this article”

*****Bible predicted this in Revelation and other locations…..Apostasy of the Church as designed by Satan and the Illuminati. 


“In other words, religion is harmful, not helpful. The reason is because God is imaginary and religious delusion is hurting all of us.”

*****Religion is a fifth column strategy by Satan/Lucifer to destroy the church.  He will succeed but for a short time.  Religion is extremely harmful and damaging to the truth from the Roman Catholic dogma, to the charasmatic movement to the Rockefeller funding of Billy Graham and other religious institutions to teach doctine that deviates from the Bible.  In this we are in PERFECT agreement.  Here is their true plans that they will fail but the end game…...If you can refute this, please be my guest.  I wish you would.

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By Annie Reitano, April 27, 2009 at 9:26 pm Link to this comment

So Tom, you see, when we stop questioning things, we become delusional and base our beliefs on things that are harmful, hurtful, and most of all deadly.  Things that cannot be proven, seen or shown to have a backing of evidence will always destroy.

I will never stop with this quest, and many others feel the same.  Atheism is understanding that, while there are no “proofs” of the lack of written gods, there is plenty of evidence, both scientific and logical.

And if your “god” doesn’t want or need you to understand him in his different dimension, then why you bother at all trying to “speak truth on his behalf” is going to be the final conundrum here.  If you cannot understand him, try not to speak for “him”. Otherewise you’re really just speaking on your own behalf, are you not?
Afterall, as anyone who is rational can see, all gods are imaginary.  Especially your’s as you’ve demonstrated him here to be in a different dimension, uncapable of being understood and yet extremely vengeful to those who CANNOT understand given the contradictions—even though he doesn’t need them to understand.
Your god is imaginary.

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By Annie Reitano, April 27, 2009 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

Cont’d

This article by Sam Harris puts it this way:

While most Americans believe that getting rid of religion is an impossible goal, much of the developed world has already accomplished it. Any account of a “god gene” that causes the majority of Americans to helplessly organize their lives around ancient works of religious fiction must explain why so many inhabitants of other First World societies apparently lack such a gene. The level of atheism throughout the rest of the developed world refutes any argument that religion is somehow a moral necessity. Countries like Norway, Iceland, Australia, Canada, Sweden, Switzerland, Belgium, Japan, the Netherlands, Denmark and the United Kingdom are among the least religious societies on Earth. According to the United Nations’ Human Development Report (2005) they are also the healthiest, as indicated by measures of life expectancy, adult literacy, per capita income, educational attainment, gender equality, homicide rate and infant mortality. Conversely, the 50 nations now ranked lowest in terms of human development are unwaveringly religious. Other analyses paint the same picture: The United States is unique among wealthy democracies in its level of religious literalism and opposition to evolutionary theory; it is also uniquely beleaguered by high rates of homicide, abortion, teen pregnancy, STD infection and infant mortality. The same comparison holds true within the United States itself: Southern and Midwestern states, characterized by the highest levels of religious superstition and hostility to evolutionary theory, are especially plagued by the above indicators of societal dysfunction, while the comparatively secular states of the Northeast conform to European norms. Of course, correlational data of this sort do not resolve questions of causality—belief in God may lead to societal dysfunction; societal dysfunction may foster a belief in God; each factor may enable the other; or both may spring from some deeper source of mischief. Leaving aside the issue of cause and effect, these facts prove that atheism is perfectly compatible with the basic aspirations of a civil society; they also prove, conclusively, that religious faith does nothing to ensure a society’s health.
Countries with high levels of atheism also are the most charitable in terms of giving foreign aid to the developing world. The dubious link between Christian literalism and Christian values is also belied by other indices of charity. Consider the ratio in salaries between top-tier CEOs and their average employee: in Britain it is 24 to 1; France 15 to 1; Sweden 13 to 1; in the United States, where 83% of the population believes that Jesus literally rose from the dead, it is 475 to 1. Many a camel, it would seem, expects to squeeze easily through the eye of a needle.

In other words, religion is harmful, not helpful. The reason is because God is imaginary and religious delusion is hurting all of us.

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By Annie Reitano, April 27, 2009 at 9:16 pm Link to this comment

And of course, more food for thought sent to me by a good friend.

If God were to exist, wouldn’t you expect there to be a huge benefit to those who follow and obey him? Why, instead, do we see the opposite?

For example, there is growing evidence that the delusion of religion causes significant social dysfunction. Statistical research is revealing the problems that go with religion. For example, a recent article in the Journal of Religion and Society points out that religion is correlated to the significant social difficulties that we can see in America:

In general, higher rates of belief in and worship of a creator correlate with higher rates of homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion in the prosperous democracies.  The most theistic prosperous democracy, the U.S., is exceptional, but not in the manner Franklin predicted. The United States is almost always the most dysfunctional of the developed democracies, sometimes spectacularly so, and almost always scores poorly. The view of the U.S. as a “shining city on the hill” to the rest of the world is falsified when it comes to basic measures of societal health. 
The prevailing view is that religion is harmless even if it is delusional. That turns out not to be the case. America is the most religious country of those studied in the developed world. America also has the biggest problems in terms of things like homicide, juvenile and early adult mortality, STD infection rates, teen pregnancy, and abortion.

Cont’d above

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By Annie Reitano, April 27, 2009 at 9:13 pm Link to this comment

Repetition is due again, I see. I do not cling to my atheistic BELIEF.  It is a lack of belief.

Now, enough of the silliness and onto science, the Earth and it’s life force proven in the scientific world which is backed by loads of evidence, and not just hard-headed “I know because the Bible tells me so”..crap.

Recently there has been a change in the christian community: Many members of the christian faith are embracing evolution. For example, there is this article:

At Churches Nationwide, Good Words for Evolution: “On the 197th birthday of Charles Darwin, ministers at several hundred churches around the country preached yesterday against recent efforts to undermine the theory of evolution, asserting that the opposition many Christians say exists between science and faith is false. At St. Dunstan’s Episcopal Church, the Rev. Patricia Templeton told the 85 worshipers gathered yesterday, ‘A faith that requires you to close your mind in order to believe is not much of a faith at all….’ At the Evanston Mennonite Church, Susan Fisher Miller, 48, an editor and English professor, said, ‘I completely accept and affirm the view of God as creator, but I accommodate evolution within that.’”
And this letter, signed by more than 10,000 clergy members:
An Open Letter Concerning Religion and Science: “...We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children…”

The interesting thing to note is that when you accept evolution, what you are automatically doing is rejecting the concept of a soul. Here is why: As soon as you accept that evolution is true, you also accept that the creation story in the Bible is false. It is pure mythology. The concept of the “soul”, which comes from the same book, is exactly the same sort of mythology.
Simply think through the logic. What the theory of evolution says is that every living thing on this planet has evolved through a completely natural process. Every species that we see today is derived from simple, single-cell organisms over the course of hundreds of millions of years. In other words, there was no supernatural creation process for humans as described in the Bible’s book of Genesis.

If you think about this, what you should realise is that evolved beings have no souls. Human beings are no different from any other animal, insect, plant or bacteria in the way that we have evolved. In the same way that every other living thing on planet Earth is soul-less, humans are soul-less. The whole notion of a soul is a figment of human imagination.

This makes complete sense. The biochemistry of life powers evolution. That biochemistry is amazing and complex, but it is nothing more than a set of soul-less chemical reactions. When the chemical reactions cease, you die. There is no “soul” mixed in with the chemicals.

Where did the first cell come from? Many religious will argue that God magically created the first living cell. This, of course, is silly. The scientific principle that describes the origin of life is called abiogenesis. In the same way that there is no supernatural being involved in evolution, there is no supernatural being involved in abiogenesis. Both the creation of life and the evolution of species are completely natural processes.

There is no “supreme being” in heaven who reached down to create life on Earth or human beings. Nor is that being answering prayers. There is no soul. There is no everlasting life. Science tells us all of these things with complete clarity. Gods are imaginary.

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