Don’t count on me not taking your stupidity and beating you down with it, however.

Rebecca even I know that you don’t go around correcting someone’s grammar an spelling. That is just bad etiquette and rude. Tell me do you do that often every where you go in person or written communication? Very crude an just a means of insult. So why not use your brain just a bit more next time an stick to the subject at hand? I promise I will be gentle but strict an civil.

SNED… a person with a really low self esteem would do this. :D

I don’t know who she is. Just another troll…

Who the heck is Rebecca?
And who comes back and posts months later….(I’m not one to look back too far)
Almost sounds like Glenno again.
Sheer silliness…..
Ughh.

Rebecca.
Atheism = A meaning without or No.  theism.

Splitting hairs to suit your terminology prevails you of nothing too.

As for the spelling, which generally is apropo of nothing also, there is very often unmeant typos which most people of any sensitivity would acknowledge, and ignore.  Very often it is the difference between English and American, I’ll confess, nowadays, I become rather mixed up in my spelling between the two. Should my fingers accidentally miss a letter I can assure you most people will know that occasionally it happens to them. Attacking the person and not the argument is never very good debating style. It is no different to using a closed fist to solve an argument. It doesn’t work. 

I abhor American spelling generally, whilst actually agreeing often with the adaptation of my mother tongue into a simpler presentation.  From WW2 onwards, after spending time in American waters, I adopted the right hand fork style of eating and to hell with the English conventions.

Once when participating in a debating club, a very gifted speaker, said. “It matters not a jot the way it is said or written as long as you know the intent.”  So if you didn’t understand my intent I feel sorry for you.

PS Admin my log in, even with the new password, still tells me my action is invalid after being logged in correctly.

Rebecca.
Atheism = A meaning without or No.  theism.

Splitting hairs to suit your terminology prevails you of nothing too.

As for the spelling, which generally is apropo of nothing also, there is very often unmeant typos which most people of any sensitivity would acknowledge, and ignore.  Very often it is the difference between English and American, I’ll confess, nowadays, I become rather mixed up in my spelling between the two. Should my fingers accidentally miss a letter I can assure you most people will know that occasionally it happens to them. Attacking the person and not the argument is never very good debating style. It is no different to using a closed fist to solve an argument. It doesn’t work. 

I abhor American spelling generally, whilst actually agreeing often with the adaptation of my mother tongue into a simpler presentation.  From WW2 onwards, after spending time in American waters, I adopted the right hand fork style of eating and to hell with the English conventions.

Once when participating in a debating club, a very gifted speaker, said. “It matters not a jot the way it is said or written as long as you know the intent.”  So if you didn’t understand my intent I feel sorry for you.

Hey..I just got up….but I do have a way with words…usually the wrong way…see
below.

As hopfel note…http://www.pewforum.org/Age/Religion-Among-the-
Millennials.aspx

And an interesting web site.

It occurs to me that G has some kind of mental problem…not being an expert I
guess it could be a mild cause of manic depression. Up for a while and ranting
(as was his last post)...seemingly logical(ish) at other times…like his apology to
Annie =mid cycle…and hateful and angry on the other end (the depressed
side..which caused the apology.)...These states can cycle rapidly or take
months. And I don’t think this is my first post saying that he probably needs
medical help. (After all he’s posted here for at least 3 years if not longer…and
he’ll be back.) For me, some of his inane remarks force responses that might
not have been made, had he not been here…and further cement my own
position. If I’m right he’s here because of brain chemistry (religion is a big part
of that)  Thanks G…have a nice life….. again. I don’t think any of us want you
back again….but you’ll try to sneak back again…it’s your M.O. Better to get help
then waste your time with us. Really…
Or better yet get on a boat and go screw up some indigenous tribe like your
brotherhood has done repeatedly around the world. We’re a truly lost cause for
you. Conversions=BIG FAT ZERO

“While you are ordinary, you are special to the One that will judge your hearts”...

HAHAHAHAHAHA He never wastes a chance to throw in a good xian, left-handed slap.  ahahaha

Christ, Glenno!  You’d have me in tears if I didn’t think you were (ahem, moreover), nicely trying to tell us that we’re all going to hell, while you in your deceptive, hate-filled, dust covered bullshit are going to heaven whilst feeling “sorry for us regular guys and gals”.  hahahaha I used to want to tear your eyes out for some of the shit you’d pull.  But now - you’re just funny!!  You really are!!

SNED - I think his god took the wrong boy!  But your reply to that nonsense was epic!  A slight correction if I may - 95 percent were born into their religion. :D ahahahaaaaaaaaaaa

So you didn’t pick up the gauntlet I threw down for you? A simple task that you refused to even attempt to do. But I understand why. To prove your invisible whatsit is real would ruin your chance to be with “him.” Such is the problem here. Who among us “self proclaimed” our “superiority” in knowledge of science here to you? Not I. I wanted communication but that you kept snubbing me over it. So now we are just “dust on your shoes” are we? What a sweet Christian sentiment you have.

Believe me when I say you have brought nothing new here with your arguments an you fear of real confrontation. You dance around and pass off by asking your own questions. But you just couldn’t handle it. I understand we out numbered you but you could have easily picked one of us to concentrate on at a time. But you held nothing new. Sorry you want to go, the ground is too fertile and crowded for you to lay your seed here. By, don’t let the door hit you on the way out!

I have been reading but, not contributing, as I saw no earthly reason to respond to childish vomitous garbage.  Now we have been promised a departure I may return to participate with my intelligent peers.

I still have to register as a visitor as it seems that the site will never log me in .

Thanks for the drivel….no please go make friends with your Christian Brothers
90% of whom were born into their religion and will stay there.

I am knocking the dust from my shoes as I write this. We are too far apart on just about everything to have any reasonable expectation of progress. It is sad for me to know that you are freely choosing to tie yourselves to an eternity of separation from the One that was and is and is to come. You freely choose to remove all possibility of hope in a reunion with your loved ones that have gone on before you. You choose to remove the only hope of hundreds, dare I say thousands or more, of young and old alike. If successful, you will gladly lead them to the same abyss that will be your eternal experience. I am deeply saddened; however, there is a time to move on to more rewarding endeavors. That time has arrived for me. You may rebuff what I say. That is your right. My belief is that nature reveals to those who will see a myriad of evidence of an intelligent design. Contrary to the box into which you try to place believers, ‘science’ and creation are not diametrically opposed.

Your self-proclaimed superiority in terms of scientific knowledge or the application of logic is unfounded; moreover, your contribution to the furtherance of your beliefs is negligible to be certain. Your way is to parrot the ideas of others that are just as blind as yourselves. You are members of a mutual admiration society…A society that is void of moral constitution. Just examine the way you express your opinions on Truth Dig. Your use of the vernacular form is both telling and disgusting.

While you are ordinary, you are special to the One that will judge your hearts. You are each one special enough that He chose to give up his Divine nature to become a human being. He experienced life as we know it. He was slandered, beaten, spat upon and crucified for your pride, hatred of others, worshiping of worldly things and so forth. You know the historical record. You have your responses. I have seen all of them.

One day you will bow the Holy One, regardless of your justifications or denials. I will do the same. You may reject the free gift that God offers but that rejection will have a very tragic consequence. God will reveal Himself to each of you very soon. Don’t let your selfish pride keep you from seeing His majesty. Your life depends upon your willingness to see what has been there all along.

As for me, I will be praying that God will forgive me, as I have not represented His love for each one of you. Please don’t let my shortcomings keep you from accepting God’s love. I wish you the peace that only God delivers. I will be praying for each one of you.

Been there, read that. So you can’t explain it in terms that even a court would decide in your favor? (Hey I let you off easy, you could have had to explain it in terms that would pass muster with bonifide science.) Go for it Grinning man. But you can’t even pass muster on legal terms. You have nothing but myths that have been written to dovetail with the reality of desert dwellers in the late BCE or early AD. Simply nothing to stand on intellectually.

Another laugh from the G man. As if some author was there at the start of it all.
The Xtians will argue that god’s day can be a thousand years…but there’s
nothing in Genesis about single celled animals living in the ocean for 3 billion
years.  Okay, lets say that 3 billion years now equals a god day. That would
make earth 3 time 7 = 21 billion years old. Wrong again.

And I took this mess off the web
“Genesis 1 is the account of the creation of the universe and life on planet earth
as it happened in chronological sequence. Genesis 2 is simply an expanded
explanation of the events that occurred at the end of the sixth creation day -
when God created human beings. Genesis one provides virtually no details
about the creation of human beings (other than the idea that humans were
created in the image of God). For a book that is dedicated to the relationship
between humans and God, four verses seems like a rather poor explanation for
the creation of God’s preeminent creature. This is because Genesis one was
never intended to stand apart from Genesis 2 and 3. Genesis 2 describes God’s
preparation of a specific location on earth (Eden) for habitation by the first
human beings. Part of the confusion results from our English translations,
which use the term “earth” when the Hebrew would better be translated “land.”
Read a modified NIV translation of the Genesis 2 account to see how the text
should read. ” ©http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/genesis2.html

This is what I love about Xtians…“Read a modified NIV translation of the
Genesis 2 account to see how the text should read. ”

In other words whatever god inspired writers wrote the two versions of genesis,
they got their inspiration wrong so now the apologists (who make no claim to
being god inspired) come along and decide to write it that way is was supposed
to be written. (Remeber there’s a sucker boen every minute)

And I love this…“preeminent creature” That’s us. I don’t believe we became
preeminent until the industrial revolution, the discovery of bacteria and the
acceptance of science”

Sometime G helps me in my search by making his own faith so dubious, as to
believe not only the NT but the old. Suggest you watch the movie “God on trial”
about Jews in a concentration camps putting god on trail for the massacre of
the Jews by the Germans (with help from the Italians, Poles, and French, the US
(for ignoring it all)  and I’m sure others.

PS. My previous post referred to the Cathars of France and how the RCC
destroyed them…but it wasn’t very specific in what they did. In fact the Catholic
Church was responsible for the murder over 40,000 men women and children.

The bible, unfortunately stops..as if Bugs Bunny came along and said “That’s
all folks!” That’s too bad….because people were writing books of the bible into
400 CE…..(Not mentioned of course). How utterly simple it is to pick up that
book…not really read it…but believe in it fully. (Remember that tomorrow is
Sunday for and according to the OT everyone working on that day should be
put to death….right G?” Or was that another mistake? Oh ands one last thought.
Ask any ten year old how he or she might think the sequence of events in a
genesis would happen…and you’d get a fair version of Genesis. Sun, planet, air,
water, bugs,  fish, land plants animals man.  Something like that. No need for
god’s inspiration…. 3+ billion years later.

NG -

Go to the library, find a Holy Bible, and read Genesis, Chapter 1. Genesis will be the first ‘book’ in the Holy Bible. You will find the complete answer to both of your questions. Now with those questions having been fully answered, I expect that you will never have to ask them again.

You answer was not an answer to my question. You just fobbed it off back to me. Didn’t you know that lying in your religion is considered very bad as well? See you even repeated your dodge. Such a loser.

And I already told you an you should know that the science isn’t in yet as to how it all started. They have ideas but are working on predictive models. It isn’t all in yet.

Now it is your turn. What created the universe an how?

Part 1
“All of you look for validation of no god. “
And why shouldn’t every person do that?
If our nature is to be more intelligent than other animals… If our nature is to be
curious….why do religions ask that you not be either?

But they don’t. The great majority of people do not read about religion.
Christians do not read their bible, Muslims fight over it and make some of their
kids memorize the entire Koran…(how’s that for brainwashing etc). The there’s
college educated men taking down our towers so they can have sex with
virgins. (I’d rather spend my time with an experienced mature women than 25
kids who think that everything is cool…like killing 3 thousand people for god.
How’s that for being sexy?

No religion that believes in a mystical magical god asks its believers to be
skeptical. and curious. Some Christians loosely claim that “we live in
doubt”...Doubt is not curiosity. Doubt is not a challenge to be skeptical. Doubt
is defined as “being uncertain.” Well Duh…” OMG I’m uncertain!...Then “do
something about your uncertainty!”....is never heard from the pulpit. What is
heard is “Believe! Have faith! Pray harder! Read the bible more often!” And the
ever famous..“ask for forgiveness for doubting!”  or “Look at the eyeball…how
complicated! Who could have invented that?” (Talk to a biologist and he’ll tell
you that some bacteria were light sensitive etc and that evolved into your stupid
eyeball) But is that mentioned? Be awed by the eye….so complex and therefore
there is a god. DNA is digital. How’d that happen? God. Look at this book with
golden thin pages. How come no other book is like this….it’s from God.”

History is written by the winners. So true. How many people (including myself)
ever considered that idea? I didn’t..till I read it.

Part 2.Ever hear this comment…“Christianity is true and the proof of that is how
many Christians there are in the world today.” I’ve heard it enough times to
puke. That many people can’t be wrong!” Oh yeah. Then Islam can’t be wrong
either.(Well golleee I never thought of it that way…) There are 600,000,000
atheists running around (my guess)  That’s a lot of people! And we know more
about other people’s religions than the religious do.(Pew research) That’s
curiosity. That’s using one’s intelligence. That’s not reacting to fear of hell (or a
perfect heaven for that matter)....or a need to feel that there’s another life after
this one.

Here’s a laugh….a crow skiing.

http://chicagoist.com/2012/01/13/monday_morning_diversion_a_crow_ski.ph
p
Awesome, aye? Sends me to church? No. Why? All animals are special.
And then there’s the disrespect atheists receive. Give that a thought. Why is
that..because we read more than one book? Because we can think
independently ..without a man of the cloth leaning over us….and afraid to lose
his job if he has a unique thought?

Why would a rational God insist that it’s believers be irrational and believe in
magic, when in their daily lives there is no real magic. There is no proof that
prayer works. There is no proof of miracles attributed to any dead person…or
living person. (After all there is no statistical evidence showing that for every
prayer that received a miracle 100,000,000 prayers to the same person resulted
in nothing happening.) That’s how you draw scientific conclusions….by looking
at all the sides, not just one. Source Richard Feynman on Catholic miracles (not
sure which book)- http://www.feynmanonline.com/

In fact I truly believe that our searches are for God…not a validation of no god.
I have never picked up a book and read it because I knew the author was an
atheist. 75% of all books I have read are by current believers. 20% by people
who were believers. 5% by scholars whose religious credentials were not listed.
for example….is this book
The Cathars: The Most Successful Heresy of the Middle Ages
“Without lifting a sword, the Cathars posed a threat to Catholicism greater than
the Muslims or Jews—or so the Church believed. The Cathars believed that
matter was essentially evil—especially the human body—and that the material
world had to be transcended through a simple life of prayer, work, fasting, and
nonviolence. Though they radically departed from certain traditional Christian
beliefs, the Cathars still believed themselves to be the heirs of the true heritage
of Christianity. They completely rejected the Catholic Church and all its opulent
trappings, regarding it as the Church of Satan; Cathar services and ceremonies,
by contrast, were held in fields, barns, and people’s homes.

The Cathars found widespread popularity among peasants and artisans. They
respected women, who played a major role in the movement. Alarmed at the
success of Catharism, the Church began the Inquisition and launched the
Albigensian Crusade to exterminate the heresy. The Albigensian Crusade was
the first Crusade to be directed against fellow Christians and was also the first
European genocide. Today, the mystique surrounding the Cathars is as strong
as ever. Their myths and complete history are examined here in The Cathars—
the compelling true story of this once peaceful religious sect. ” Source Amazon

And I have yet to read a book by Dawkins, Harris or any well known atheist. I
don’t have to. I reached my own conclusions..in my search for god.

Well, now I see the point Glenno.  You’re either bi-polar or have a split personality disorder.  Thanks for clearing that up in a “Im a xian so better be nice” kind of way.

SNED -
An interesting response. Thanks…I’ll try to find more info on that.

Annie -
I actually DO consider you to be a friend in a weird sort of way. I also think that you have no hatred toward religious PEOPLE, you hate the fact that so many of them either claim to be religious (but aren’t at all) or that most a very erratic in their religiosity, me included I am ashamed to say. You see that they act a lot like you do but claim to be spiritually enlightened. Do you think there may be some truth in what I said there? That is one reason that I can accept you ranting at me. I know you don’t really hate me. You probably do hate the fact that at times I act like I understand what you have been through. I don’t…How could I? I’m just as sincere when I say that you must let whatever drives your anger go. In reality we are probably a lot more alike than either of us wishes to admit. I’m afraid that you believe I’m always trying to bait you or trick all of you but I’m actually a pretty straight shooter. That isn’t to say that I haven’t had some fun at times jerking your chains. I’ve meant it when I’ve said that I have learned from most of you…and pretty frequently as well. We just come from differing biases. All of you look for validation of no god. I look for just the opposite. We both find truth in our beliefs. I’ll admit that I’ve said a lot of stuff that wasn’t right. Other than being Glenno and denying being son of Glenno, I don’t think I’ve ever lied. Anyway all of caught me on that one and I had to laugh at myself for being so careless as to let it happen. Oh well…maybe you are done with me but then again maybe not. Only you will make that decision.

The cause of the expanding universe is really “they don’t know.”

The alleged culprit is Dark Energy….but they don’t know what that is either. My
guess (totally not a scientist…is that the cause is from the outside…not the inside.
As if the universe was surrounded by a heavier material that is pulling us toward
it. A ball within a ball.

Source: “Through the wormhole”....last night.

OK NG here it is…You said “Okay I’ll be blunt for you. Prove that there is a god, any god you choose. Not Biblically but scientifically. One that would pass muster. If not then sign off. Clear?”

11 hours and 42 minutes prior to that I said, “Science can verify neither the existence nor nonexistence of God.”

Therefore as you might imagine, it’s going to be rather difficult for me to answer as you have requested.

Now please answer the question I have asked: what is the cause behind the expanding Universe, which Annie’s telescope confirms? Anyone else may respond as well. Can’t wait!

So you claim. Then go to it and copy-paste it up here. But you didn’t answer really. And I’m not going to look for your hidden message. No more games.

I was reading about how previously “converted” Hindus went back to their ancient religion by one or more of their fellows. I wonder what Christians would do if Hindus came to convert Christians?

In the Amazon is a tribe that only believes what someone alive has witnessed.
Hence for 300 years no Christian has been able to convert them because no
Christian can be believed what he didn’t see. (makes sense to me)

The last preacher to do so became and agnostic..or maybe even an atheist…lost
his xtian wife…and so the tale goes. Hence Jesus call to action in
meaningless…not only to tribe but all of Islam, Hindus…and all atheists,
agnostics, and other non believers in the Christian god.

I would say that that’s not saying much for what Jesus said, or his god…and
given the fact that an entire empire and a continent were forced through
violence to convert..it’s even more ridiculous. And how many xtians today know
all this….?  Perhaps G might read The Rise and Fall of the Bible: The
Unexpected History of an Accidental Book by a Christian whose wife is a
preacher…who admits that most Christians don’t know squat about their own
religion. That means they go to church to hear what they want to hear and yet
they hate atheists who know more about their religion than they. No wonder
Samuel Clements was smart enough to keep his anti christian beliefs hidden till
after he died. He was one smart dude…

Annie -
Six and one-half cm into the same post to which I referred NG you will see the answer. It’s a lot simpler than you think.

Glenno, the link was right there for you to read about.  I believe you’re an American…do your homework..it’s big news!  OPEN YOUR EYES.  It isn’t all that early for you either, pal.

I am sure that as per usual, you will choose to be blind.  But there’s one thing we agree on - it’s getting late and perhaps we will all lose.  But if we do, it will be on account of faith heads like you.

NG -
I answered that 11 hours and 42 minutes prior to your last post. Let’s see whether you can figure it out but I’ll give you a hint…it’s about 4cm into the message.

Okay I’ll be blunt for you. Prove that there is a god, any god you choose. Not Biblically but scientifically. One that would pass muster. If not then sign off. Clear?

WOW Night-Gaunt !  Could you be any more random in that last post? I’m exhausted trying to figure out how many places you went with that.

Annie…I didn’t read about the little girl so I don’t know the story. It sounds like it must be tragic. There is much tragedy in this world but the frequency of these terrible events seems to be ever increasing. It does make one wonder whether the trending toward nihilism, relativism, atheism and so forth are contributory. You claim that we are ‘losing’. Well…perhaps we are. Perhaps we all are.

Tom - I’ll be blunt. Open your eyes. It’s getting late.

Promises, promises Grin2012 but no answers. Just rhetorical stand asides.

Science doesn’t see a need for a god(s) right now. And from a logic stand point no one but a fool wastes time on proving a negative. And you my friend is part of that negative. Why you say? Because so far the Natural world explains the world. The god concept is a 5th wheel and *Occam’s* Razor cuts it cleanly off.

Sure there is still much to know like the formation of our universe. And scientists like Dr. Michi Okaku are working on it. Much is still unknown an we both know as long as there is the unknown your god will be hiding in it. Till it is illuminated then the god scurries away to other dark unknown places. (Not really the concept is in the mind of the believers who work it out in their minds that way.)

So Grin2012 you say a god exists well it is up to you to prove it. Not us to say that an invisible something is needed to keep things running. Unless you mean dark matter an dark energy. But does it have sentience? It does produce gravity so we know it is there by that effect, but its essence is still for now unknown.

So it is in your court. So run with it if you dare. And I say you won’t. You will deflect and equivocate like a master who has practiced it for some time. Just that we won’t let you get away with it.

I am your friend, Annie. There is no need to be abusive. It doesn’t become you or your cause. We do fight like cats and dogs but your insistence on cursing is only done to annoy me. I know that. You aren’t the tough person that you try to portray. So you can let up a little on me.

Your continual attacks on the religious and Christians in particular point to a very deep-seated emotional issue within you. You should seek professional assistance. Hatred only gets reflected inward my dear. It is sad to witness it.

No soul has wandered so far from the Father that it cannot return. You had that joy once and you can have it again. You deserve better than where this path is leading.

“As the Alpha and Omega, my God has always been. God lives outside of what we know as time. As such, no beginning is required.”

Bwhahaha LAME RHETORIC.  But by all means, feel free to provide evidence for this extraordinary claim.  My god, Crom, the Irish god, lives outside of space and time and is the Alpha and Omega, too.  :D Disprove me.  Oh that’s right!  The burden is upon me.  Well, let’s start with YOUR god since you brought it up first.  Provide evidence for that crap.

“Science can verify neither the existence nor nonexistence of God”

But you know what, wee child?  We have great big telescopes that show us the Universe at vast distances.  And you know what else?  We can’t find him.  He’s not peeking in on you.  So, what’s he doing outside of space and time if not babysitting you?

You’re a lot of palaver. Here’s a sum up to your response to the people here “Mah! Kindergarten babies wash your face in gravies”.  Then when you don’t get what you want, you sulk, we ignore you, and you pray OUT LOUD AND PROUD on the internet.  Well, sorry, but god whispered in my ear that he doesn’t have cable. :D Prove he didn’t. 

See how stupid your position is?  Stupid, stupid.

These are the propositions that will apply in my defense of God’s existence and the relevance of God’s existence. They are listed in no particular order…because each of you waived your right to participate in the debate I will not be obligated to respond to any objections, although I may choose to do so. Over the next few weeks you will see my entire defense of God’s existence. This defense will serve as my way to ‘generally’ respond to a multiplicity of questions collectively posed in the past.

Science can verify neither the existence nor nonexistence of God

Theories are just that. As such, the certainty of conclusions derived from them has an associated confidence interval that varies in accordance with the level of uncertainty

The actions of those who claim to follow a ‘Religion’ cannot be stereotyped in a manner that speaks FOR the religion. There are those that claim to follow a religious believe system; however some or many of those individuals do not consistently follow that belief system. The frequency of these departures varies greatly

The Holy Scriptures will speak for the religion

In the case of the Catholic Church, the hierarchy of the Church provides clarifications as needed with regard to the Holy Scriptures. These clarifications are available in written form

Certain paranormal events have been verified. That is not to say that all claimed paranormal activity is valid

Inconsistencies in versions of writings related to an event do not necessarily invalidate the underlying events’ reality. Stated another way, the preponderance of information may be sufficient to validate an event. The certainty of the event is lessened to varying degrees. In a similar manner, inconsistencies in written versions of documents diminishes the known accuracy of the document

Personal accounts of witnesses are generally accepted as evidence if those witnesses are reliable. Corroboration of witnessed events increases the certainty of the event by varying degrees

Inferential logic is a valid tool to apply in decision-making

Knowledge and faith are mutually exclusive

Humans have free will and actions have consequences

The mathematics of probability support intelligent design

My personal account of a bicycle accident related a paranormal event that I translated as evidence of a personal God’s intervention

typo…was: 1)Some believed is was not true God,...
should be : 1)Some believed he was not true God,...

OK SNED…I’ll answer your question that went like this, “So my question to you is ...Let’s suppose there was a god…would SHe respect the people who used their brains to not believe in her/him?”

My answer is YES. God loves everybody. Certainly SHe respects them as well.

I am repeatedly maligned for not answering questions. So I’ll answer a couple more. Your questions: “However, I’m confident that you know the various nature’s of Jesus that were held by various Christians prior to Council of Nicea. For our benefit , why don’t you tell us what they were?  And how the heck did they straighten that all out without
measuring tapes?”

My answers: 1)Some believed is was not true God, others believed he was not both true man and true God. Yet others believed that he was both true God and true man. 2) I wouldn’t have any idea.

For the record, I think that I answer many more questions that you folks.

I’ll also give answer to Tom’s question: “From whence came your God?” Answer: As the Alpha and Omega, my God has always been. God lives outside of what we know as time. As such, no beginning is required.

Now let me ask a question and I’d appreciate a response as well. What was the Cause behind the expansion of the Universe? Your turn.

always an insult or a question….never an answer….

sick person….

I ask questions of you Grin2010 to understand your point-of-view not to trip you up with traps an snares. I’ve found that people who function as you do already are in a trap of their own devising. I just want clarification. Something that is against how you roll. Thanx for that clarification even if it is hidden in you lack of response.

I’m thinking that you should buy a dictionary suitable for K through 12 and look up the word ‘artifact’.

I would imagine that if Jesus were to come back we could measure him for a hat
size, a shoe size, a jockey short size,  and he would been measurable from head
to toe….since you believe that Jesus is, in fact god. God in the form of Jesus is
measurable. So Mr Christianity representative,  you are wrong again.

However, I’m confident that you know the various nature’s of Jesus that were held
by various Christians prior to Council of Nicea. For our benefit , why don’t you tell
us what they were? And how the heck did they straighten that all out without
measuring tapes?

Yes - I agree that science can neither prove nor disprove Gods’ existence. Artifacts of God’s existence may be both observed and measured by scientific means; however God the entity cannot be measured.

bwahahaha!!  I watched that entire debate once before.  That bishop was so pwnd it wasn’t funny.  I almost felt for him.  Then I decided that no, he’s a potential paedophile - and even if he’s not, he greases those ugly cogs.  Blech!  It’s a great debate, though - even if it was one sided…because it was MY side that so easily owned the bitch. :D

A great laugh on a Sunday morning- a debate of the value of the Catholic church
that took place in England years ago.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3DVJRoUYIE&feature=related

I tend not to obsess with your clap trap.

OK SNED…You are OUT of the competition.

With regard to my fact is fact statement I noticed that you deleted the context. Please read it again…“I am saying that (supposed) proof developed FROM theories doesn’t clear the mark for what IS proven fact; hence, it is FAITH that allows one to accept for FACT something that isn’t FACT at all.”

If you aren’t able to understand it, that’s not my problem. If you want me to explain it to you just ask (or someone else can as well).

No….not for you Glenno…..but I must admit that at times you inspire some
thinking when you make idiotic remarks here and there like..
“it is FAITH that allows one to accept for FACT something that isn’t FACT at all.”

“If it is agreed that it is’nt fact at all..there is no way in hell that you can prove
it’s a fact.”

Hawkings says we don’t need a god to have a universe and others says there’s
no such thing as time and that there is no beginning or end to the
universe…and that something can’t have all knowledge and power as a
thing…before even a neutrino comes into existence. It makes not a grain of
sense.

So my question to you is ...Let’s suppose there was a god…would SHe respect
the people who used their brains to not believe in her/him, or those that
believed in her/him by reading one book,when others with their “god given
brains” have proven that the book itself and it’s contents leave much to be
desired in terms of its validity…presence of a cruel god, conflicting gods,
incorrect history and more changes in the text than there is text?

I’m waiting for SNED and Annie’s response, then we can proceed with those that haven’t been eliminated. All I am attempting to do with the first question is to establish the boundaries for what may be put forth in support of our individual arguments. Tom and NG are disqualified from further consideration in this competition. Tom by choice and Night-Gaunt because of his refusal to answer a simple ‘Y’ or ‘N’ question.

On second thought…I’ll offer an olive branch here…Because I didn’t explain the competition in advance, I’ll allow those two back in. So please respond to the first question which follows: Realizing that this could someday change, can we agree that at the present time science can neither prove nor disprove one or more God’s existence?

I’ll allow 24 hours for each of you to respond with a ‘Yes’ or ‘No’, followed by an explanation that doesn’t exceed 10 lines on this site. No response means you are ‘out’. No referrals to links allowed. It is 8am Eastern Time USA. Go.

Such is the intellectual integrity of Grin2010. Sadly a feather weight around heavier weights out class him or her.

NO>>>

As always you avoid answering direct simple questions then proceeding, at a tangent, change the subject.  Either put up or shut up. My evidence for not believing in Gods is simple. I have never been shown a sensible reason to change my mind.

I do not have to prove the non existence of an identity that doesn’t, to my thinking, exist.  You claim that it does exist but will not proffer even a modicum of evidence in support.

If I said I had no money in my outstretched hand, you could easily prove me wrong by just dropping a penny in it. It seems you are just as empty handed.

We disagree on so much. Perhaps we can agree on something. Realizing that this could someday change, can we agree that at the present time science can neither prove nor disprove one or more Gods’ existence? If we can agree on that, then I will proceed to the next question.

Once again against my better judgment, as I seem to have my questions ignored.

With verifiable evidence .From whence came your God?
With verifiable evidence.  ”    ” Satan?
With verifiable evidence. Whereabouts is “Heaven”?
  ”      ”    ”        ”    ”  “Hell”. ?

Here here and two thumbs upo for Annie!

What do you mean for me to “try” again? I asked you to prove your point. As in this case I offered for you to use legal means proof for your case. Science would have been of no use to you since there is nothing in science that proves anything in religion. I could have used a historical proof for you to use but you’d fail there too.

From what I see you are avoiding the whole thing. Good that means I have you pinned and struggling to get free by pointing to a random corner an you telling be to “look there” so you can escape. You still haven’t tried once. So get to it or go away.

Much of what is “proven” by science is acted upon in manufacturing, medicine,
technology etc.  The “faith” in science is not an admission of stupidity, but a
reasoned belief in the results it produces that are incontrovertible…yet always
the systems utilized to produce these results..and the science related is always
open to change.They results are real.

Faith in a religion is a faith in the unknown..not subject to scientific reasoning
logic, side by side and blind testing etc etc etc. In fact when scientific methods
have been used to test the power of prayer , prayer fails to have any power. (Do
read “Where the hell is God”

After all it is written by a believer. And just for the heck of it..when was the last
time you recommended the writings of a non believer?

If anything we here use scientific reasoning to counter religion. We go beyond
the bible. You’re stuck in the muddle of countless writers who never even met
Jesus. And still you believe. Truly your problem.

SNED -
If I am stupid, then I certainly don’t have a lock on that attribute…once AGAIN, you misunderstand the point I was making. My point was that YOU and NG and Tom and Reit1 HAVE faith, let me repeat…HAVE faith…in science because the ‘facts’ that THEORETICAL science puts forth are NOT FACTS. They are not PROVEN. The original discussion had to do with PROOF and NG put forth science as the vehicle by which the faithful should PROVE something. His direct quote follows, “But I am open minded, all they have go do is prove it to me.” When I asked, “What is your threshold for proof being affirmed as such?” he responded with an insult and then said that “Science will do.” In summary, to be certain I am clear on this, my point is that using theoretical science as the basis for establishment of proof is contradictory. We faithful DO have FAITH in the existence of God. Could it be any clearer?

My correction was to NG’s statement.

Now we have this incredible statement by G.
“it is FAITH that allows one to accept for FACT something that isn’t FACT at all.”

That is the most inane remark I have ever read about the faithful. In other
words it’s an admission of stupidity, lack of curiosity and rejection of all critical
thinking skills.

“I am a Christian because I believe in being stupid”

The story of Christmas is a myth that no Biblical Scholar will admit is fact. 
There is one RC self taught astronomer who claims to have proven that the Star
of Bethlehem was real, but he moves the birthdate of Jesus up three years into
the reign of Herod,(Two corrections) and then claims he has not re-written the
claims of the bible…and that the rest of it is true. ...having just argued that it’s
not.

What G (stands for “Gee whiz! I believe”) NEVER does is do anything more than
quote the bible. Not once has he quoted someone like Bart Ehrman. Rebecca
watch this…http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cK3Ry_icJo It’s free and it’s
college lecture.  A G why don’t you try to watch.

Rebecca -
Reit1’s response is typical of her as well. For her it’s all about proving her intellectual superiority but her potty-mouth fairly well pegs her to the mid-range at best. She falls prey to the common mistake of elevating self by means of tearing others down. Unfortunately, her elevator doesn’t have the buttons for the top third of the building.

Keep talking Glenno!  I love when you pathetic xians speak.  You’re losing your own battle.

This is a video of the desperation of xians who understand full well that they are losing to a secular society. Even xians in the US are pretty secular considering the high divorce rate, the MUCH sex before marriage, and then saying “God forgives all things..Jesus covers my sins - no prob!”  :D ahahahaha LOSERS!!

http://youtu.be/Waq_QOeZEes

The red letters at the end of this are what the loving xians (like Glenno the fat fucking hypocrite) have to say about harming the girl in Rhode Island.  Oh how y’all hate to lose! ahahahahahaaaa Keep talking Glenno…keep talking. :D ahaha One banner down - many more to go….

Actually NG, it is you that needs to try again. I didn’t say that theories aren’t proven science.

Rebecca - For the record, these response from the people I am presently dragging to the carpet are typical. They misinterpret so that they can get on the soap box and restate their erroneous positions over and over (and yet over) again.

Do any of you remember the college admission tests where you had to read a paragraph and pick out the main point of the paragraph? Right now I’m thinking that some of you were challenged in that area of testing. This isn’t an attempt to be condescending at all. It is just that you rarely answer the questions that I ask. You twist my words into something that allows you to go wandering around out there in left field, to use a baseball analogy. Interesting…

SNED -
Correction to your correction. Please note my use of tick marks around the word proof in the second sentence of my immediately preceding post.I wasn’t saying that theories are proven. I am saying that (supposed) proof developed FROM theories doesn’t clear the mark for what IS proven fact; hence, it is FAITH that allows one to accept for FACT something that isn’t FACT at all. Now, with that having been said, would you care to respond to my preceding post once again?

A modest correction..no theory is ever proven and all scientific theory is subject
to scrutiny and change. Hence now the speed of light is being questioned by
recent findings. Nothing is etched in stone in science. That is it’s beauty.

In religion everything is etched in stone, and not subject to question. Those
who do question religion are often condemned and findings never discussed
with the masses. So people like Glenno get stuck in the mud of “winners
writing history” and repeated mythology…and othe obvious proven historical
errors are glossed over continually. (Xmas is a prime example..it never happend
as described and Mark, the oldest of the four gospels, and Paul the earliest
writer make no mention of his mystical birth. Never happened. Killing of
innocents never happened. The tax pr census never happened. None of the
above is recorded in Roman or Jewish history. Glenno must believe to live..we
don’t.

The jesuits obviously question….but seem happy being hypocrites invtheir own
Church.

Only you would make such a fantastic leap into an utter non sequitur. So it must be for another reason. Theories are proven science. Nothing better. Go with that an try again. No faith.

NG -
Great…so now we are getting somewhere. You would agree then that ‘proof’ based upon theories only would NOT clear the threshold of what we know to be true. Further it would then be a very small step to conclude that your FAITH alone allows you to accept quite a bit of what science purports to be truth. Would you agree?

Why do you need to ask? Are you blind, do you not see it in what I write? Must I spell it out for you? Obviously I must. Science will do. Though I’d be interested in seeing a legal proof which has different parameters. So you don’t believe in blind obedience and blind belief? Plenty would to consider you a “real Christian.” Just so you know.

NG -
What is your threshold for proof being affirmed as such?

It is the lack of belief that typifies pan Atheism. Unlike the selective Atheists who have their god(s) an any others outside of their religion aren’t real to them. See the difference Rebecca?

How are you Agnositic? Technically we are all agnostic since we are not omniscient. But that is not necessary to know enough to see that things operate quite fine without some guiding intelligence. But I am open minded, all they have go do is prove it to me. Isn’t that the same with you? So the only real difference between us is that you leave the door open, I leave it closed but unlocked with a flashing sign saying “prove it.” (Hint: no takers because if they prove it it means they failed in their blind belief!)

A fun read for G man and Rebecca

http://www.alternet.org/belief/153727/5_founding_fathers_whose_skepticism_ab
out_christianity_would_make_them_unelectable_today/

Against my better judgment the continuing peurile vomitous juvenile postulations and ignorant statements being made about atheism arouses my baser instincts.

Rebecca.
Atheism is not a belief in no God, it is no belief in a God.  Their is world of difference. A “Belief” often is something one has when there is no proof for having an attitude in any instance. Atheists have beliefs but not in Deities; it is possible to have a profound belief without visual proof when sustained by corroborative evidence. e.g Plate Tectonics and Earthquakes along with Volcanic eruptions.

You are not even agnostic, I suggest you look for yourself that definition.

I would say you are just a little mixed up and maybe searching for another way whilst being unwilling to let go of the early years of your superstitious indoctrination.

Eighty five years with wars, deaths, both personal and not. Having traveled the world over many times, and seen the idiocy of all major religions, with the foolishness of the adherents praying, unsuccessfully, to their particular Gods for a reversal of calamitous adversities, whilst denying the same god either caused the problem or did nothing to prevent it.  I am even more certain now than in my youth during WW2 when being attacked by bombs, torpedoes and bullets. God ain’t.

Rebecca -

Thanks you for your honest statement of where YOU are in your spiritual life as well as your ‘on the mark’ assessment the ‘religious’ (both those that acknowledge a God and those that do not). I hope that you will continue to post comments on this site.

Even if most on this site would deny it, YOU and I both know that there is indeed something other than the physical realm. They know it as well but cannot admit it because it leads down a road that they cannot defend. It diminishes their argument. Correction…it deletes their argument.

I also was raised a Lutheran; however, I have been listening to Redeemer Radio to and from work. It is Catholic-based. The apologists on that station are expert on the Bible and the Catholic perspective, both historically and from a Gospel message perspective. I would recommend that you peruse catholic.com for further information.

Rebecca, you are delusional.  Full stop.

There are no ghosts, and you have never witnessed any.

Atheism is not a religion - but it has become somewhat of a rebellion.  Now you feel rejected and left out by that as if all atheists were a boyfriend who didn’t want you anymore.  It’s no wonder people use the word “reject” when speaking of god. “you are rejecting god”.  Wish I had a dime…

Years ago when it was black people who were the pariah instead of atheists, there was a poem that went like this:  “Nigger, nigger, tender meek and kind.  Beware the day they change their mind.”  And they did.

That would be us atheists, now. So, you see? It’s not a religion.  There are no atheists asking you to pay for their building on gov’t property and believe like them, or putting up large A’s all over to cram it down your throat, or asking you to tithe or you’ll burn. No, we just want to have the same rights as you do. So, if you actually believe that absurd nonsense regarding ghosts and ouija boards..you have that right so long as you’re not hurting anyone or infringing on my or anyone else’s right.  But the moment you do…I change my mind about what YOUR right is.  See?  That’s the real circle of life.

Glenno, you do ad lib.  I believe that Pope John Paul upheld church teachings which are incredibly irresponsible when it comes to sex and the spread of the HIV virus…yes I do.  People looked up to him as some sort of saint, so when he said that condoms were not to be used, sorry if you cant see it but that’s so fucking irresponsible that he IS complicitous in everyone who died for listening to his foolish “blah blah”.  Blubbering baby stuff.  Stupid, just stupid.

If the Pope doesn’t know then a rethinking of what being one means needs to be done now. The buck always stops at the top of the pyramid of control.

The Buck stops at the Top.

I’m not condoning child sexual abuse. So your position is that JP II was RESPONSIBLE for the abominable acts, right? Your position is that JP II is RESPONSIBLE for the spread of HIV/AIDS, right? Do you believe anybody else is responsible for the spread of HIV/AIDS? Have you ever seen that the labeling on condom packages says that they don’t prevent the spread of VDs? Just curious, when you examine the totality of his works, do you believe he was a good man?

ahaaa! SNED, you beat me to it.  Sorry Glenno, but John Paul was extremely irresponsible.

As for this statement: “What selfishness on their part!”  (regarding Harris and Dawkins).  I agree!  How dare they try to get people to see the truth when we could just continue on spreading disease and believing that the earth is flat!  Those fuckers! :D

According to Malachi Martin SJ and prolific author of the Church and its inner
workings and people, John Paul actually believed that he would witness
armageddon, and would represent the world, to god..as the one chosen by god
to head the most universal church in the world. source-Keys of This Blood:
Pope John Paul II Versus Russia and the West for Control of the New World

John Paul might have been a nice guy,in your book… but he died dead.He also
helped spread aids throughout Africa with the church’s stupid stance on birth
control. And he helped spread hate through the church’s hypocritical stance on
gays, when up to half the clergy are gay; helped keep women down in its
attitude towards women in the church, and disgraced himself in his role in
promoting the abuse of tens of thousands of children around the world by
considering the church’s reputation more important than the lives of children.

The one thing you can say about these men is that they never take risks by
having children, will never know what the love of a child can be like, and will
never know what it’s like to be a truly and fully a human. And that says a lot.

Presently reading a most excellent book, ‘Universal Father’,a biography on the life of Karol Wojtyla who would become John Paul II. He lived a very, very difficult life as a boy and young man. As a teen lived through the Nazi era when many people close to him were shot or sent to concentration camps. To read his understanding of the nature of mankind is a great privilege. Always building people up and seeing the good in people. What a contrast to folks like Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins and others who make it their life work to tear things apart…to attempt to remove the source of morality and hope for so many people. What selfishness on their part! It is a tragic thing when intelligence is misapplied. All will collect their just reward. I much better understand why the people were cheering, “Gianni Paulo Santo” publicly during the Holy Father’s nine days of mourning. He was an intellectual but more than that, he loved people. I’m not personally Catholic but I can comprehend the love people feel for the Church.

yup… a guess.

SNED -
Guessing? Really?

I have often wondered that if Joshuah was a carpenter why hasn’t any of his work been found an lionized? Parts of the cross he supposedly carried have been found. (Enough to make many crosses.) But no magnificent constructions have been touted. Maybe he wasn’t a carpenter, just a son of one, even if he was supernaturally impregnated into a mortal woman. (Zeus did that a lot.)

A psychologist once told me three secrets of maintaining a sane marriage.

1. Chronic absolution….“I love burned biscuits”
2. Indiscriminate praise. “Doris your haircut looks great”
3. and if what you are about to say won’t change the world..don’t say it.
and I’ll add a fourth….thought…it ain’t about love…it’s all about forgiveness.

Just read a new book from Ehrman…“Forgery.” One of the most interesting
stories was about a group of biblical scholars who, years ago,  met to decide
what they thought Jesus said and didn’t say and produced a book on that
subject. I’m sure most of us heard about it. Apparently they made an comment
in the preface that forgery/lying/falsifying texts were accepted practices 2000
years ago..and left it at that. Ehrman makes it quite clear, with proof, that those
claims were and are100% bogus and as a result he disagrees with practically
everything theses scholars concluded. (And he states that with a modicum of
research, these scholars could have discovered the truth themselves. It is
amazing just how many books were written making up stories of Jesus and the
disciples…and Mary etc. (perhaps all of them) Did Jesus exist? My guess.
Probably. Was he a god? Not at all.

What amazes me is that if the bible were true, why would a loving intelligent
god be so uncreative that there are Billions of people who do not believe the
story, and never will believe the story. All the magic that resulted in Jesus the
child, the man and the resurrected were not unique at all among the gods, and
sons of god that preceded him on this planet…on made up. Take the magic
away…and you have a guy who cared about the poor, had some strange anger
issues with his mom,  didn’t fulfill his promise to return and couldn’t even write
his own story…and very likely couldn’t read.

A friend recently sent me this. Thought I’d share it…

PASS THE BISCUITS

When I was a kid, my mom liked to make breakfast food for dinner

every now & then & I remember one night in particular when she had

made breakfast after a long, hard day at work. On that evening

so long ago, my mom placed a plate of eggs, sausage,

and extremely burned biscuits in front of my dad. I remember waiting

to see if anyone noticed!

Yet all my dad did was reach for his biscuit, smile at my mom

and ask me how my day was at school.

I don’t remember what I told him that night, but I do remember hearing

my mom apologize to my dad

for burning the biscuits.  And I’ll never forget what he said:

“Honey, I love burned biscuits.”

Later that night, I went to kiss Daddy good night and I asked him

if he really liked his biscuits burned.

He wrapped me in his arms and said,

“Your momma put in a long hard day at work today and she’s real tired.

And besides… A burnt biscuit never hurt anyone!”

You know, life is full of imperfect things… And imperfect people.

I’m not the best at hardly anything,

and I forget birthdays and anniversaries just like everyone else.

What I’ve learned over the years is that learning to accept each others

faults and choosing to celebrate

each other’s differences, is one of the most important keys

to creating a healthy, growing, and lasting relationship.

So…please pass me a biscuit. And yes, the burned one will do just fine!

And please pass this along to someone

who has enriched your life…I just did!

Life is too short to wake up with regrets… Love the people who treat you right

and forget about the ones who don’t.

ENJOY LIFE NOW - IT HAS AN EXPIRATION DATE!

Reading another good new book “Render unto Rome” about Catholic Church
handling of finances….or rather mishandling…if you can call it that. Included is
a great deal about the abuse of kids. The best revelation, and dealt with in
detail, is about Father Marciel who started the “Legion of Christ” with the a set
of rules that would make any free thinker jump off a bridge.(All of which
protected his butt)

In the end this far right winged bastard who with Ratzinger wanted to see the
Church return to its old ways…(I would assume that that would be to Inquisition
times) and when people were not allowed or,  given the circumstances, couldn’t
to think for themselves. IN his Legion no priest could ever be alone. One could
never say anything negative about another member etc etc etc. Turns out he
had children by two women, and molested male seminarians. This man turned
people into sheep ( Glenno take note…read the friggin book, as you made
comments that indicate you’re a Catholic or a real right winged born
again)....and the church hid the mess long after it was first reported.

It is amazing the money people will give to a church hoping it will get them into
heaven. Truly pathetic. And the church in Boston treated it’s congreations just
as badly. As if they were’t communities, but, again , mindless sheep.

If I read the book correctly Bishops and above cannot be laicized. Removed
from office yes. Rank removed…no way. It can’t get much crazier. No wonder
they’re doing well in Africa. There are very few places left were the people are
simply uneducated and out of touch with the modern world. It is truly
disgusting.

omfg!!! omfg!!! :D BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA. If you guys want to watch Hitchens SLAP THE SHIT outta Craig, you can watch the debate that he supposedly “lost” on YouTube under Debunking Christianity.

If you look at glenno’s link it’s just another charlatan’s way to get people to BUY a video or audio of this debate when it’s right there on YouTube.  And Hitchens knocked the pus out of Craig like the miscreant gnat that he is.  hahahaha Only a mentally retarded person would see it any other way, and only a liar would SAY that it’s any other way.  hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa :D

Craig is a smart man..he is; but in typical preacher fashion he sets the crowd up at the beginning as if EVERYONE was so stupid not to see it.  And he’s certainly no Christopher Hitchens. 

Now, glenno, your post seems even more ludicrous to me.  :D

Grin2012 we know all your arguments. It is old hat to us. We aren’t vessels waiting to be filled with the “Holy Spirit” either. We’re not doe-eyed sheep awaiting a shepherd. You walked into a den of thinkers who not only know stuff but can reason and argue with you above your level. (Sometimes modesty fails when the truth must be given.) You came in nearly under water with lead encased feet while we floated around you. So are we surprised at you? Not in the least. You were a piker in a place of scholars. Not a good place to be if you want to open a discussion, or in your case selling your “truth” to us.

You avoid questions and answers when you know you can’t handle it but your ego won’t let you acknowledge that. Learn from heathens? There must be some commandment isn’t there? (If not there should be you wonder.) We just demand some integrity not the flimflam tactics of a preacher. Leave in peace.

Just so you know….You have nothing to say…nothing to share and nothing we
couldn’t say to one who wants to believe…we know the bible better than you, you
want to be a sheep., that’s your choice. We can play your game and take your side
any time. WE just know it’s BS. A crock. Made for people like you who can’t handle
reality….

You are doomed…as we all are. Period.

We have certainly reached the point of diminishing returns. You have been told the Truth. You have no excuses. Please review the last few days of posts. No sense in me repeating it all again. Hope you realize that this has never been about ‘winning’ to me. As I have said, I am nothing. Just a sinner that is saved by God’s mercy and grace. I’ll monitor but will not post again until it seems fully appropriate. You don’t want to hear anything I have to say; that is clear.

Well Grin2012 it seems you are a heretic too. Since it was the Bible where I got my information. Where did you get yours, the Crystal Cathedral? No mention of the Final Judgement from you or the rising of the dead or the body swap out since it won’t be souls being tortured but the new indestructible bodies that will be, or feeling an eternal orgasm of the few who make it to “Heaven.” Since we all must, according to most Bibles, be judged first and if our name isn’t in that golden book then to sheol it will be. (Both the use of Hades & Hel(l) are Pagan references. Look it up if you dare.) Nailed again. You just can’t win can you?

Don’t be shocked Grin2012 and can’t bear it, Atheists tend to know more about from what they speak, including religion, than the usual believer. We have to to take on rubes like you.

Even more: How does a soul burn???  :D It’s so stupid.  “Coffee with Claire” - Clarie could win a debate with craig.  He’s just not_that_bright.

Silly xians, myths are for kids!!!!! :D

Somebody else tell her.

Many years ago I was on assignment in the State’s largest mental institution, including the criminally insane area. I was surprised to meet an inmate who was an old workmate incarcerated because of brain damage from alcohol.

I can sincerely state that some of these poor people were more lucid, and made more intelligent conversation than that coming from Grin.

Can it not sink in that the inane, childish postulations, so often in Biblical tract terminology is, to even those of us who have average intellect, vomitous.

Where is Hell and where is Heaven? For that matter pointing Down to Hell for an Australian is the same direction as Up to an American, or if on the Equator straight across. So where is “Down to Hell?”

hahaha Sharp is a xian.  He’s too stupid to know who really won. :D

Please note the source…
Just the facts now…
http://debunkingchristianity.blogspot.com/2009/04/william-lane-craig-won-by-landslide.html
Results of our last poll:
Craig/Hitchens Match-Up?
A Dead Even Tie 10 (2%)
Hitchens by a Puff 40 (9%)
Craig by a Nose 33 (7%)
Hitchens by a Wide Margin 72 (17%)
Craig by a Wide Margin 165 (39%)

OOPS!!  I meant, although a WRITER…ahahahah certainly not a xian!! :D And thank buddha!