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By mrfreeze, November 20, 2011 at 10:14 am Link to this comment
objective observer - I’ve thought about your “advice” to me for a couple of days now…allow me to respond:
1) Perhaps you assume (wrongly) that I know nothing about firearms…this is often the assumption of many people who think that only “real Americans” who live out in the country or are “the salt of the earth” know about guns. I grew up around guns and know how to shoot….SO WHAT? When one of those para-military goons comes to my home fully armored and with the high-tech gear (paid for by my tax dollars), my 2nd Amendment “right” won’t mean shit.
2) Oathkeepers? Forgive me for being so cynical, but that whole idea is a bunch of baloney. When the “masters” tell the police to shoot, they will do as commanded.
I realize that many Americans live in a Clint Eastwood, Chuck Norris, John Wayne fantasy that they’ll all grab their guns, hop into the hummer and go meet “the enemy” once the revolution starts…....That fantasy is a bunch of hogwash…....I don’t know about you, but the police scare me these days and the more firepower they have the less “free” I feel.
By vajoiner, November 19, 2011 at 6:06 pm Link to this comment
Only a coward takes this job.
By heterochromatic, November 18, 2011 at 9:50 am Link to this comment
One can knpw a hundred languages and not know how to reason well in any.
as I said, the park isn’t stolen property and thus the adage isn’t applicable.
By Arabian Sinbad, November 18, 2011 at 9:09 am Link to this comment
By horatio, November 17 at 5:32 pm
heterochromatic: stealing stolen property is fine by me. Ladrón que roba a ladrón, cien años de perdón.
I, who know five languages, can relate to, enjoy and agree with the Spanish proverb you posted. However, to expect a shallow person, like heterochromatic, whose native English language is very poor and incoherent, is really to expect too much!
Admittedly, heterochromatic is there to trap people who take what they write seriously. You might say he is a troll! And my best advice is to ignore him, unless he gets ugly and nasty, then you have to give it back to him and not turn the other cheek!
By objective observer, November 18, 2011 at 9:00 am Link to this comment
we do have a defense against the militarization of the police -
1. second amendment - learn about firearms, take classes, get armed, not Waco/whacko style, but be able AND WILLING to defend yourself
2. learn about OATHKEEPERS - an organization of police and military that have sworn to uphold the Constitution and will not fire upon citizens, etc.
when this society unravels, history will forget Rwanda and Bosnia, so get prepared…
By oddsox, November 18, 2011 at 8:16 am Link to this comment
Will you allow me a 4th agenda item?
It would be to eliminate payroll taxes in favor of a consumption tax model.
Look here, 2nd graph:
This is % of Federal Tax Revenues by source.
See that % from Income Taxes has remained fairly steady at 40%
Corporate taxes make for a shrinking % of the take since 1950.
And payroll taxes as a % of the total have risen from about 12% in 1950 to 36% in 2008.
No wonder we have high unemployment.
Notice, too, excise taxes (a consumption tax).
In 1950, we were getting nearly the same amount of Federal Tax Revenues from excise taxes as from payroll taxes.
You can see what happened thereafter.
Where would we be today had these futures been switched?
By mrfreeze, November 18, 2011 at 7:34 am Link to this comment
Many police departments have become militarized. As time goes on we will see them transformed from “protect & serve” public servants to paramilitary enforcers for whatever despots and tyrants happen to be running city/or other governments.
We have no defense against such forces. And these are the “public employee” (union members) who are always insulated against attacks by the anti-government folk??? Perhaps citizens should quit funding these thugs.
By Tobysgirl, November 18, 2011 at 7:04 am Link to this comment
I guess I don’t have the glowing picture of the NYPD that others do. I lived there for several years, and the NYPD struck me as the usual bullies/cowards in uniform. They would harass someone letting their dog play in the park (but would leave a guy in leather and studs with his dog off-leash alone) while on the other side of the park a woman was being raped. In all my contact with people who work for institutions, including social workers, I have been amazed at how scared they are of anyone who looks formidable or whom they perceive as potentially violent. Perhaps this explains why the NYPD is so fond of beating and pepper-spraying women.
By heterochromatic, November 17, 2011 at 9:54 pm Link to this comment
horatio, the park aint stolen property.
By oddsox, November 17, 2011 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment
Not convinced that getting “enough liberals elected” would be the method to achieve the 3 agenda items from my earlier post.
Anti-trust action against the Too-Big-To-Fails is a ripe tactic for any young hotshot law firm looking to make a name for itself.
I’d be willing to wager there are some newly-minted lawyers talking about right now.
There’s still time enough to make reinstating Glass-Steagall a wedge issue for the the 2012 election. The electorate is wising up to what it is and why we need it back.
Same with campaign finance reform, but that will be tougher because we’ve gone so far down the corporate contribution road.
A Constitutional amendment might be the way to go here, and there’s one petition for an amendment already out there.
Unfortunately it concerns itself only with corporate personhood.
But it’s a start.
Big B, I’m in favor something good coming out of OWS. The potential is there, but the movement has grown to a mile wide and an inch deep.
Now that the Occupants have the nation’s attention, they’re going to have to move forward with common-sense alternatives that appeal to most of the 99% they claim as constituents.
Would be a shame to waste this moment, but that’s what I fear will happen.
OWS needs a leader to emerge—someone who realizes the movement is not an end in itself, but a vehicle to effect constructive change.
BTW, glad you have work.
By heterochromatic, November 17, 2011 at 7:39 pm Link to this comment
the Occupy movement in Spain might have spread to include unusual sources of
By Big B, November 17, 2011 at 4:50 pm Link to this comment
sorry, just got home from work.
What do you suppose the odds are that “we the people” would be able to get enough liberals elected in this “corporatocracy” that we live to pass any of the legislation you suggest. All good ideas I agree, but impossible to achieve in the current system.
The only REAL change that will work involves the succession from the union of a block of our most liberal states so that they could set up a true socialist democracy that works (and it would work)
While I admire current mainstream progressives like Tom Hartmann and Bernie Sanders, they are kidding themselves if they think the oligarchs in charge will ever permit the system to changed from within ever again.
By horatio, November 17, 2011 at 4:32 pm Link to this comment
By heterochromatic, November 17, 2011 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment
anyone who thinks that the NYPD were out there to do anything but get a small
job done with a minimum of fuss and blood, hasn’t a clue about what serious
By objective observer, November 17, 2011 at 1:02 pm Link to this comment
oh, i don’t know, how many gun owners in this country? unorganized militia, that is…
when the violence finally cuts loose in this country, history will forget Rwanda and Bosnia. that’s what is sad about the commenters on Truthdig who call for “revolution”. they have no concept of the pain, horror and blood that will flow. the powers that be won’t and can’t surrender peaceably. since voting only brings in a fresh batch of un-but-soon-to-be corrupted politicians, what is the answer? it isn’t drumming, marching and camping…
By heterochromatic, November 17, 2011 at 12:40 pm Link to this comment
objective observer——-how many divisions do you and your second
amendmentsit army have?
By stand to reason, November 17, 2011 at 11:56 am Link to this comment
In the Sam Peckinpah movie ‘The Wild Bunch’, the railroad used
Deke Thornton to basically kill Pike Bishop and his gang, but they
gave Thornton what he called gutter trash to do the job. This is
what the ‘financial terrorist’ barons are doing now to stop the
99% with the gutter trash that inhabit the police departments and
apparently in the fbi and most likely the cia whose covert ‘plants’
are very adept at creating any violence and destruction to make it
appear as if the 99% are doing the dirty deeds. So why won’t the
financial terrorist barons use gutter trash to do the same on what
is really a peaceful demonstration unless a bloomberg buys
another judge for a better decision for the 1%?
By heterochromatic, November 17, 2011 at 11:05 am Link to this comment
heart sweet as a berry
soul on hash
By heterochromatic, November 17, 2011 at 10:58 am Link to this comment
till you get there yourself you never really know
my soul’s been through the lost and found fair often.
By objective observer, November 17, 2011 at 10:43 am Link to this comment
only an imbicile wouldn’t realize that without the second amendment, there would be no first amendment. but then only cowards fear the second and hide behind a toothless first amendment. the crybaby OWS had better either learn how to apply the second amendment or be squashed. trying to tie Ghandi to this demonstration is nonsense.
By oddsox, November 17, 2011 at 8:44 am Link to this comment
Here’s the correct link for the Ronette’s You Baby
Remember the Ronettes, of course (Be My Baby, Best Part of Breakin’ Up, etc)
But don’t remember this song, was it a B-side?
The Residents are an acquired taste, I guess… but the lead singer has a great voice. I smell a solo career, who is she?
Sorry for the “gym music,” EmileZ
Bet you won’t hear this one during your workout:
Bette Midler did a great cover of this one back in the ‘90s.
By EmileZ, November 16, 2011 at 11:20 pm Link to this comment
RE: True Colors
I am trying to save Heterochromatic’s soul (or make him chuckle… whichever he prefers, hopefully both).
RE: Your question… Sorry but I couldn’t make it very far into either song, it was just too painful. What I did hear reminded me of the stuff they play at the gym. I tried though.
The Ronettes - You Baby
The Residents - Hellno
By oddsox, November 16, 2011 at 10:39 pm Link to this comment
don’t see the “True Colors” connection, but enjoyed the musical interlude, as always.
Riddle me this:
Why is this such a big hit
while this one’s forgotten?
By EmileZ, November 16, 2011 at 9:47 pm Link to this comment
Interesting that you should bring up “stealing property”.
By heterochromatic, November 16, 2011 at 8:16 pm Link to this comment
Only an asshole draws such crap.
the First Amendment to the Constitution of the United
States does not include the right to steal property for
the personal living space of the well-intentioned self-
appointed morally superior.
By oddsox, November 16, 2011 at 5:58 pm Link to this comment
There’s no reason to be dirty when it’s so easy to avoid, come on.
Others didn’t have it so good: Earlier this month I was watching Ken Burns’ Civil War series.
Now THESE guys were dirty.
2wice as many soldiers died from disease and infection than on the battle field, did you know that?
As for “america in 2011 just needs a few tweeks?”
1) Repeal corporate personhood.
2) Campaign reform—prohibition of moneys in the political process except as donated by breathing US citizens: no corporations, no unions, no PACs.
3) Break up the too-big-to-fails using anti-trust legislation. Reinstate Glass-Stegall.
There’s other stuff, but give me those 3 and I’ll take my chances from there—how ‘bout you?
By Arabian Sinbad, November 16, 2011 at 4:29 pm Link to this comment
The caption to this wonderful piece would have been more powerful if it read:
Only a coward arms himself against defenseless, armless fellow citizens, who believe that silence against evil is complicity!
By Big B, November 16, 2011 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment
Try not to marginalize people who make look a little “dirty”, they have been living in tents for over a month you know (to bring up the old “dirty hippie” stereotype is a low blow, especially considering that many old hippies are doing our taxes and checking our prostates)
As for revolution, do you seriously think that america in 2011 just needs a few tweeks? More and more everyday our once great nation more resembles Ghandi’s India in the 1930’s than it does the great experiment in democracy our founding fathers envisioned.
Remember, it took Ghandi almost 40 years and a financially and morally bankrupt British empire to acheive social change. This is just the begining of a long road. But without a “revolution”, the USA may just resemble the Solent Green world John Poole mentioned.
By oddsox, November 16, 2011 at 10:01 am Link to this comment
good ol’ provocative Mr. Fish, at it again, stirring the bucket.
We’re a long way from Revolution. A lot of “baby” would be thrown out with that “bathwater.”
Reform will suffice.
As you hinted, I’m sure a lot of the cops are sympathetic to OWS.
They’re just doing their jobs—continued non-violence is a good way to avoid the lose-lose confrontation scenarios.
If you’re in the Occupy movement, remember, you can use a wider variety of tactics than the cops can.
A huge advantage.
But the best tactic not to see the cops as enemies.
Yield, regroup & return. Be like water, flow with the force, over, under & around it instead of resisting it.
And speaking of water, stay clean. Drug abuse, squalor & unsanitary conditions are unhealthy, unsafe and just marginalize your movement & message.
By John Poole, November 16, 2011 at 5:51 am Link to this comment
The film Soylent Green had a dystopian warning. The protagonist was a NYC cop
He knew there were thousands who wanted his job so he learned how to justify
his loyalties to the ruling elite. The film got certain things right but a lot of things
wrong. Still it had some compelling scenes. Heston’s cop character was flawed
but looking to do the right thing.
By Big B, November 16, 2011 at 5:33 am Link to this comment
Revolutions only seem to succeed when the military and law enforcement side with dissident population instead of protecting the establishment.
I wonder how this officer and all cops like him will feel when they chop the knees out from under his union and his pay and his benefits.
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