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By Mr. Fish
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By P. T., April 7, 2010 at 9:48 pm Link to this comment
That cartoon is just too deep.
By Aaron Ortiz, April 6, 2010 at 2:54 pm Link to this comment
Thanks Mr. Fish for clarifying.
I think you would be surprised, if you spoke with the historical Jesus. He was very
much against the religious establishment of his day, an iconoclast you might say.
That’s why they were threatened enough to condemn him of treason and kill him.
I doubt he would side with the “religious right” you mention.
By Allan J Krueger, April 6, 2010 at 2:27 pm Link to this comment
The problem is, from my perspective, the religious nut jobs have never read anything but the Old Testament. If they had and learned anything, it doesn’t show!
By Mr. Fish, April 6, 2010 at 1:14 pm Link to this comment
The cartoon isn’t that complicated, for christ’s sake – and I mean that. All I did was name the most banal things that the religious right typically targets as being anti-God and uber apocalyptic and likely to topple the Democracy and had a scenario where Jesus comes back to lend his holey hands (and I mean that) to the wacky cause. Of course, the punchline is that everybody on Earth has already perished, having succumbed to greater and more significant dangers, all man-made and nothing to do with a 2000 year old fairytale.
By Aaron Ortiz, April 6, 2010 at 12:27 pm Link to this comment
Let me see if my understanding is correct.
Jesus is standing in a pool of blood that is the
result of all the people killed as a result of his
teachings. The text says: Jesus coming back to rally
everyone around a common hatred of dirty words,
topless chicks, same sex marriage and legal abortion.
His words? “Where is everyone?”
The point of the cartoon: Jesus returns to incite
further hatred and finds his followers already dead,
presumably together with their enemies.
The problem is not the message: that the religious
are being violent in their defense of what they
consider good, and thus are committing a worse sin in
their hatred. I agree that this is ironical and
deserves condemnation and ridicule.
The problem is that Mr. Fish sees Jesus as the source
of that hate, when Jesus’s only recorded instances of
anger are AGAINST the narrow minded religious people
of his day. He was in favor of the lepers, the
prostitutes, those labeled “sinners” in his day.
Mr. Fish shows Jesus as being similar to those who
hate in the name of God. That is what I find
insulting. I find it hard to believe that Mr. Fish
doesn’t know better.
Help me if I misunderstood.
By hark, April 6, 2010 at 8:13 am Link to this comment
I don’t believe you have interpreted this cartoon correctly, Mr. Ortiz. I see it completely differently. But there is only one person who can settle the matter, so I will refrain from arguing endlessly for my view. I will just repeat that I think you are wrong about the intent of it.
By Aaron Ortiz, April 6, 2010 at 6:11 am Link to this comment
No, I do not ask for censorship, merely sincerity from Mr. Fish.
I have atheist friends. I do not wish to paint them as hateful, I merely want them to
realize that atheism is not the only logical worldview.
By Russian Paul, April 6, 2010 at 1:02 am Link to this comment
“ … If anyone slew a person unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief
in the land it would be as if he slew the whole humanity: and if anyone saved a
life it would be as if he saved the life of the whole humanity.” (Al-Qur’an 5:32)
By TheHaplessCapitalist, April 6, 2010 at 12:28 am Link to this comment
I submit, Mr. Ortiz, you win this one in terms your capacity to remain respectful and benevolent in response to my harsh words. Clearly, jesus taught you to be nice to folk like me.
I am also no fool: I realize precisely why you do this. You are attempting to paint an angry, un-loving image of me for being an atheist. Well, excuse me for not trying harder to see if god is actually real—I will think long and hard about him tonight. (c’mon, spare us the preachy stuff, Ortiz.)
Without digressing too far, I’d like to remind you again of the outrageous claims you initially made—namely, that Fish’s cartoon ‘commits murder’ and is an example of ‘hate-speech.’ With your faith in hand, you cry for the censorship of Fish’s artwork. Simply put: your reaction here is no different than that of those who detested Kurt Westergaard’s so-called anti-muslim cartoons.
By Aaron Ortiz, April 5, 2010 at 10:24 pm Link to this comment
Another point I’d like to make about hatred:
It exists between people of different religions, point granted. But what about
the hatred and disdain that liberal atheists have of believers? It seems
impossible for them that a rational, sane, and intelligent person could possibly
believe in God. For them, all believers are backward, unschooled, ignorant Philistines.
It’s difficult to love someone who insults you. But I try. Why? Because it is a
teaching of..guess who…Jesus. Is that wrong?
I think, Hapless, that if we met in person, we would find a lot in common and
be able to have a friendly conversation, as long as each of us would learn to
accept each other’s differences. I am not the blind-faith believer you seem to
think I am.
By Aaron Ortiz, April 5, 2010 at 9:51 pm Link to this comment
Read the Bible a little, and with an open mind. Do it just to understand what it
says first hand. I comprehend Mr. Fish’s point perfectly, and it angers me
because of his hypocrisy. Why doesn’t Mr. Fish criticize the Koran?
Where does it say in the Bible that you should kill people who don’t believe
what you do? The Koran does.
It wasn’t the Bible that inspired the Crusades, at first it was national interest,
then it became greed, and finally, revenge. Leave the Bible out of it. It wasn’t
the Bible that inspired that war, or more recently, the wars in Iraq.
But it WAS the Koran that inspired Osama Bin Laden, and 9-11. Even so, do you
blame Mohammad for Osama Bin Laden’s mass murders? Can you blame Jesus
for popes Urban and Gregory’s crusades?
But if you read the “narrow doctrines” I mentioned, you will see that no true
follower of Jesus would commit murder. Read the sermon on the Mount. I invite
you to criticize it, if you wish. It is the foundation of Christian ethics. Many
philosophers have studied it.
Open your mind. I have considered seriously whether God is a human invention.
Have you considered seriously whether he is real?
Religions don’t divide or cause violence, people do. For every religious
massacre, you can find worse ones perpetrated by atheists. But politicians use
religion to manipulate nations to go to war against each other. In that I can
share your anger.
By TheHaplessCapitalist, April 5, 2010 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment
Assuming that no one else wants to take a bat against your ignorance, I gladly will.
“This Cartoon commits murder,” “classic example of hate speech”—you got to be kidding me.
Your so-called faith blinds you, my friend. You clearly haven’t the capacity to properly interpret this cartoon, for your mind is held hostage to a hopelessly narrow doctrine.
Sure, you can pick and choose wonderful sounding lines from scripture. But what’s the reality? The reality is that your stupid scripture unifies people in opposition to one another. Capiche?
By Aaron Ortiz, April 5, 2010 at 7:53 am Link to this comment
Mr Fish, in his hatred of the right wing, tries to insult their religion, and fails.
Jesus taught to love one’s enemy. He said that even being angry against your
brother was tantamount to murder (in the sermon on the mount, Matthew 5-7) By
that definition, this cartoon commits murder.
That “Christians” have been murderers, even when wearing the papal tiara, does
not make Christ a murderer and an inciter of hatred.
Rather, Mr. Fish’s cartoon is a classic example of hate-speech. Worse, his pride
blinds him to the fact.
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