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May 25, 2013
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Iranian DemocracyPosted on Jun 20, 2009By Mr. Fish
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By blogdog, June 22, 2009 at 11:37 am Link to this comment
Clearly this calls for your cartooning Rush Limbaugh in Haiti to teaching phenomenology to preschoolers while mutilating them by circumcision- all to be achieved before the 25th hour of your very next workday, after which you may then rest.
Declining this mission proves you’re a lightweight.
Report thisBy Folktruther, June 22, 2009 at 10:19 am Link to this comment
Things are getting clearly as the facts become known, as Paul predicted, and it is increasingly apparent that this “Iran Stolen Election” narrative is one of the biggest Big Lies that the US media, including the pseudo-progressive media, has ever perpetrated to discredit a landslide victory.
Report thisBy Russian Paul, June 21, 2009 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment
Mr. Fish, thank you very much for your well thought out response. I tend to agree with Folktruther’s assessment, but as you say, things should become more clear over time.
Again, thank you for discussing this with me.
Report thisBy ardee, June 21, 2009 at 2:41 pm Link to this comment
Mr. Fish,
I applaud your participation in the comments regarding your work. I also admire your patience in attempting to explain said work to those who see all through the filters of their own partisan views.
Of course the description about filtered views applies to everyone else, always…..;-}
Report thisBy Folktruther, June 21, 2009 at 8:49 am Link to this comment
Mr Fish- All govemments oppress, all leaders lie, all elections are political theatr that tend to legitmate the status quo. That said, a landslide election of Amadinejad, similar in vote outcome in 2005 win, prefigured by a large Rockafeller financed poll, is being demanded to be canceled by the overwhelmingly defeated, but richer and more Educated, side, and be empowered instead.
Paul Craig Roberts, among many others, think this is a ‘color’ revolution instigated by the US, based on the 400 million dollrs that Congress authorized two years ago for regime change in Iran. And I agree with him. I think the US media assterion of a ‘Stolen Election’ is a much Bigger Lie than the weapons of mass destruction that initiated the war with Iraq, since there is absolutely no evidence to support it. In the US installing of the Shah a half century ago, the US paid off political leaders and paid demonstrators to create chaos, this being a standard CIA ploy in many past elections in many countries.
So I think you are dead wrong, and are supporting the deceived demonstators in Iran that are genuinely puting their lives on the line to demonstrate for an outcome thay is strongly against their interests. The zionist NYTimes now indicates that the “Reformists” are consideering a strike, which, since the working class is on the side of Ahmadinejad, would have to be conducted by the business class.
I mention in passing that being supported by an ardent, if erratic, Zionist like Inherit is not a good sign.
That said, I admire your willingness to argue with commenters like Paul. You are one of the only members of the Truthdig staff that does so, practicing democracy instead of just preaching it.
Report thisBy Mr. Fish, June 21, 2009 at 5:34 am Link to this comment
blogdog - It’s right next to my cartoon on why I think Rush Limbaugh is a fuckhead, just before the one about circumcision being mutilation and directly behind the one about why I think phenomenology should be taught to preschoolers: in the 25th hour of my workday.
Report thisBy Han, June 21, 2009 at 3:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
The smart thing for the Iranian people is to realize that what they are doing now will only help an american invasion and will be as bloody as the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Report thisThey have to find other ways to get democracy. For example go and visit and the people in power at home once in a while and ask them to mellow up. That would be about 100 visitors each day for each person in the gevernment…
By blogdog, June 21, 2009 at 12:54 am Link to this comment
Mr. Fish where is your cartoon on the fully documented and virtually unapologetic manipulation by the CIA of the democratic process in Haiti?
Report thisBy Mr. Fish, June 20, 2009 at 8:55 pm Link to this comment
Paul - yes, indeed, there is something disingenuous about an American who refuses to recognize and then to publicly ridicule crimes perpetrated by his own government yet can express disdain for a bullying foreign government that appears as if it favors self-preservation above the protection of certain democratic ideals. I don’t debate that; in fact, such tribalism is perhaps the greatest fault of this country. It is precisely what fuels the enormity of our mega nationalistic hubris. For the point I wish to make let’s just refer to that sort of person as an asshole. That said, I fail to see how echoing an asshole’s criticism of state violence, even if it is not OUR state violence, is an endorsement of all that qualifies the asshole as an asshole. And, yes, you’re right to be suspicious of the English-only signs being carried by many of the marchers. I’m well aware that any movement that appears to be supported by the upper-middle class could be an indication that there is some collaboration going on between the business class and some concentration of power somewhere, domestic or foreign born, and that such a protest can not really be seen as a peoples movement. The English-only signs may also be a reflection of the younger generation of Iranians who are savvy enough to understand the greater marketability of presenting signage that is readable by the West which is notorious for blabbing on and on and on, ad nausea, whatever it is fed. Such details, I imagine, will be revealed over the coming weeks and months, perhaps years. I have no problem pointing my finger at something once I’m sure what I’m point at. Right now, things are still a bit…gray. That is, with the exception of the blood that’s leaking out from behind the black censor bar being held by the Iranian elite.
Report thisBy Inherit The Wind, June 20, 2009 at 8:19 pm Link to this comment
Russian Paul, June 20 at 10:58 pm #
Mr. Fish,
I don’t know what they’ve been saying on Fox News, but it’s all I hear on the radio, it’s on every newspaper, it’s on the cover of Time magazine for chrissakes. Since when is Time an incendiary/revolutionary publication? Don’t you find it hypocritical that those who would never lift a finger to protest the regime in their own country, are screaming their head off about something happening half a world away? Isn’t it odd that this movement started with mostly middle-class, English speaking, well-to-do Iranians and not the majority of Iranians who support the populist Ahmadinejad? And this plays into the hands of US and Israeli hawks who love this increased tension.
On the other hand, the Iranian government HAS violently cracked down on these protests, which was unwise since it only enflamed the situation and won the protesters far more support. I agree that this should be condemned, and this has turned into something far more significant, but I find the response of the West unheard of in its overwhelmingness. Especially compared to other totalitarian regimes around the world that we silently endorse or ignore. You must have noticed this. This is what I find suspect and I am not alone in thinking that some have ulterior motives in promoting this response. Of course you are extremely intelligent and think for yourself…but it seems your recent cartoons have been a bit superfluous since all US media and all political cartoonists are in complete agreement and no one is providing much needed shades of gray, which is what I usually come to you for.
I hope that makes sense. Thank you for reading and commenting,
Sincerely, still your loyal fan,
Russian Paul
P.S. Inherit, I am honored you would consider me part of the “contingent,” however, I am not sure if I am worthy of such praise.
*****************************************
I dunno….this post is far too rational—it might just disqualify you.
BTW, let’s not forget that a regular chant at Iranian government-sponsored rallies for years is “Death to America!” about a nation “half a world away” as you would say.
Why doesn’t it work both ways? Or are you going to be just a little bit hypocritical too and rationalize their chants?
Report thisBy Russian Paul, June 20, 2009 at 7:58 pm Link to this comment
Mr. Fish,
I don’t know what they’ve been saying on Fox News, but it’s all I hear on the radio, it’s on every newspaper, it’s on the cover of Time magazine for chrissakes. Since when is Time an incendiary/revolutionary publication? Don’t you find it hypocritical that those who would never lift a finger to protest the regime in their own country, are screaming their head off about something happening half a world away? Isn’t it odd that this movement started with mostly middle-class, English speaking, well-to-do Iranians and not the majority of Iranians who support the populist Ahmadinejad? And this plays into the hands of US and Israeli hawks who love this increased tension.
On the other hand, the Iranian government HAS violently cracked down on these protests, which was unwise since it only enflamed the situation and won the protesters far more support. I agree that this should be condemned, and this has turned into something far more significant, but I find the response of the West unheard of in its overwhelmingness. Especially compared to other totalitarian regimes around the world that we silently endorse or ignore. You must have noticed this. This is what I find suspect and I am not alone in thinking that some have ulterior motives in promoting this response. Of course you are extremely intelligent and think for yourself…but it seems your recent cartoons have been a bit superfluous since all US media and all political cartoonists are in complete agreement and no one is providing much needed shades of gray, which is what I usually come to you for.
I hope that makes sense. Thank you for reading and commenting,
Sincerely, still your loyal fan,
Russian Paul
P.S. Inherit, I am honored you would consider me part of the “contingent,” however, I am not sure if I am worthy of such praise.
Report thisBy Inherit The Wind, June 20, 2009 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment
Uh,Oh, Mr. Fish, now YOU have done it too! You incurred the wrath of “The Contingent”! They will insult you, abuse you and demand you turn in your “progressive card” for being a secret neo-con, zionist and racist.
After all, you’ve attacked their heartfelt, if totally absurd and unjustified, beliefs. That means you MUST be a neo-con-zionist-racist. Who else could possibly dispute their “divinely” inspired “evidence”?
Report thisBy Mr. Fish, June 20, 2009 at 6:09 pm Link to this comment
To Russian Paul - I’m starting to believe that, perhaps, you might actually be disagreeing with your misinterpretation of my recent cartoons than with my intended meaning. Firstly, regarding this one, I’m not sure I agree with your statement that the corporate media is cramming the story of fraud down our throats, unless you’re talking about FOX News, specifically, which is hardly a news source and nothing I can comment on. Alternative news outlets are also reporting the unrest and alleged tampering - suspect? The fact that there are many thousands of Iranians willing to risk their lives to challenge the status quo is significant and has nothing to do with our corporate media or my touting of some imagined party line. This cartoon is simply about the media blackout imposed by the Iranian government, period. The Ahmadinejad cartoon as Che (which ran yesterday)is nothing more my commenting on the fact that, while a revolution often relies on a charismatic leader to act as a figurehead, it will always require a figurehead to represent the reprehensible philosophy that dissidents wish to revolt against. George Bush, for example, did more for the Peace Movement than Cindy Sheehan.
Report thisBy Russian Paul, June 20, 2009 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment
Mr. Fish, I am really disagreeing with this new series of cartoons. I have absolutely no problem witnessing Iran’s protests, this is ALL the corporate media of America is talking about. The allegation that the election was rigged is being shoved down our throats. Do you not find that a bit suspect?
There might have been some fraud, but like trudigger bellow says, no way would it have effected the end results of the election. The US certainly has an interest in overblowing this story, creating more tension with Iran. Also, the people who are now so into this protest and the “twitter revolution” are mostly people who didn’t make a peep during their own fraudulent elections of ‘00 and ‘04.
So it is quite complex, I would hope your cartoons would reflect that more.
Report thisBy loneman, June 20, 2009 at 4:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
I think the US in collusion with Israel is quietly creating a pretext for a war with Iran. Let’s wait and see.
Report thisBy truedigger3, June 20, 2009 at 3:59 pm Link to this comment
Is it possible that the results of an election is rigged by 11 million votes??!! I really doubt it.
Report thisIs something is “rigging” the news??!!
By nefesh, June 20, 2009 at 12:53 pm Link to this comment
The attempts by the regime to silence the people is doomed to failure.
Report thisI believe the regime is doomed as well. The brutal crackdown may buy them some time, but this is truly the beginning of the end for one of the world’s worst authoritarian power centers.