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By Mr. Fish
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By comfortablefoot, November 21, 2011 at 1:30 am Link to this comment
Political cartoons have always sought to provide some political insight covered with humour. Often times, the lines between humour and slander can be very blurred. Few cartoons can truly be called great. I have yet seen one that I am comfortable of saying that it is truly funny.
By Marshall, May 21, 2008 at 12:44 am Link to this comment
So, refusing to support the U.S. sponsored terrorism you attribute to the U.S. doesn’t qualify as “working within the system”? If ever there was such a thing, that’d be it.
Your post is mostly wordy ad hominem Ivan. I don’t blame you for existing stage left.
By Marshall, May 21, 2008 at 12:30 am Link to this comment
By kath cantarella, May 20 at 3:25 am #
Re: Re: extreme religion has a lot to do with
“Of course he facilitated it. He gave Bushco the excuse. He gave them the weapon of fear to wield over the US public.”
I see. So “Busshco” was just waiting for an excuse to wield the “weapon of fear”, and OBL just happened to come along out of the blue and present it. And for what purpose would Bush be wielding this weapon?
By kath cantarella, May 20, 2008 at 4:25 am Link to this comment
Of course he facilitated it. He gave Bushco the excuse. He gave them the weapon of fear to wield over the US public.
And in terms of hypocrisy, Bin Laden is a giant in the field.
By Ivan Hentschel, May 19, 2008 at 9:28 am Link to this comment
Freddie and Marshall:
I had sincerely hoped that Monday morning would bring a fresh start, but we seem to be mired in the same Jurassic tar pit.
Just for the record, beginning any response with “You people” is pretty arrogant and self-serving. I’d be careful where I use that opener: it will get your nose flattened.“You people” implies that “you people” are better than “my people”. You wonder why we have stupid fights in this country? When we have better things to do? Try some ethno-sensitive proof-reading.
1. I think both you of have your hatbands pulled down too tight. It has something to do with bloodflow to the brain.
2. You are both myopic xenophobes.And redactive and 19th century reactionary.
3. You are both confusing patriotism with guiltlessness. “Let he who is without”, and “cast the first stone” and all that? Do you own one of those Bible things? Have you never screwed up anything in your entire life? Or are you both pure as the driven snow?
4.I’m not “equating” the US with anybody. Where did you get that? Your self-righteousness is showing through, again. Speak for yourself, not me or anybody else. See#8.
5. Your right-wing solution to “move away” or change countries is foolish, short-sighted and counter-productive. Better, I think, that we all should stay here and hash this out. Do you have the stomach for that? It takes patience and open-mindedness. Be careful what you ask for or your neighbor will soon be asking you to leave, as well.
6.I have no idea why either of you are reading TruthDig.Did you not read the masthead? Are you lost? Or perhaps Truthdig has lost its footing. That would be sad. And talking about not paying taxes doesn’t exactly work within the framework of this discussion or the philosphy of this website. You need to remember that things get done best for everyone when we work within the system, and not work to break it up, willy-nilly. You probably believe Dubya is the Decider, too?
7. Just because other countries have poor human rights and criminal war records doesn’t give the US a free pass to screw people. If we weren’t so smugly convinced we are so wonderful, we wouldn’t be in the mess we’re in. Why can’t you seem to spell “humility”? See # 4.
8. You both keep putting your words in my mouth. This is the newly honed media art of “sound biting”. America is losing its ideological principals to eupemisms and philospohical statements no longer than a bumper sticker (see Bill Moyers). Trite, convenient logic reductions will make you feel comfortable, warm and fuzzy but won’t get you very far down the road of honest introspection. You may not have noticed, but every time you open your mouth, you just change feet. Your arguments are circular and more defensive than forward-looking.
You would both do well to go back and the read the timeless quote, “The unexamined life is not worth living”.
I’m outta here: I just remembered you can’t have a meaningful dialogue with a fencepost.
By Freddie, May 18, 2008 at 11:35 pm Link to this comment
“We” are not terrorists.
You people are pretending you don’t understand Mr Fish’s rhetorical purpose for using the word terrorism as opposed to slavery or any other more accurate word he could have chosen. And you too reveal your extremism.
Both you and Mr Fish are basically saying, “but but, we terrorized too…in a way…cuz like slavery and genocide are technically something that would “terrorise” individuals per the classical definition of the word. Right?” What purpose do you and Mr Fish have for rationalizing the use of that word in this context?
What level of hate do you think the US deserves? Do you think the US “had it coming”?
You don’t know me. I know all too well there are plenty of legitimate reasons why people hate America. I argue it all the time and I’m an activist that stands on the left because I want that to change.
Let me spell it out:
By listing terrorism specifically as a reason to hate America, Mr Fish is doing what you are doing; he’s saying, “but but…we’re terrorists too”. This is meant to justify the hate of certain people. You know who. The vast majority of the Muslim Arab world hates America for good reason and even though I don’t believe it’s healthy for anyone to harbor any level of hate, I certainly can’t blame them. But there are a certain few that are simply evil and take that hate to a whole new extreme. And THAT hate is unjustifiable - period. Mr Fish should have left them out of his vindication.
One would be hard pressed to name a country with a clean record - a country that committed no crimes against humanity in centuries past. How many countries deserve to be hated Mr.Hentschel? Which ones deserve a punishment for their past or current transgressions? Which transgressions have earned the level of hate that would drive one to kill droves of random civilian citizens of said country? How would you justify such hate?
By Marshall, May 18, 2008 at 11:31 pm Link to this comment
Excuse me - but I am a bit curious about how you think Osama Bin Laden has managed to facilitate the degradation of American standards of fairness and decency.
By Marshall, May 18, 2008 at 11:23 pm Link to this comment
Honestly, Ivan, how does it feel to be an inhabitant of the country of Al Qaeda? Since you equate the U.S. and it’s government with the worst of the world’s worst, I really do have to wonder how you live with yourself. Doesn’t this warrant some sort of punitive action? How can you continue to pay taxes to support the terrorism you believe our government practices? How can you live in the U.S., taking advantage of its social services, freedoms of expression, and contributing to its GDP knowing full well the atrocities it commits on the world that you say hates us?
Perhaps you should reconsider your choice of country. At the very least, you should NOT be giving money to the system to further its terroristic goals. That would, after all, make you guilty of the same. And you don’t want to be a terrorist, do you?
By kath cantarella, May 18, 2008 at 8:20 pm Link to this comment
the spirit of hypocrisy in the USA succinctly illustrated in this cartoon. From Osama Bin Laden to the ubiquitous TV evangelists, organised religious movements have facilitated the degradation of American standards of fairness and decency, there’s no getting around that simple obvious fact.
By Expat, May 18, 2008 at 9:45 am Link to this comment
Bravo, excellent response and eloquent statement.
By Ivan Hentschel, May 18, 2008 at 8:21 am Link to this comment
OK, Freddie. Let’s just run this into the ground.
As far as Mr. Fish’s use of the “word” goes, it is, in this case, tantamount to a long overdue admission of guilt, on our part. If we were to finally appear at least a bit repentant about our past and present actions here and around the globe, the world might not hate us so much, and we would have fewer “terrorists” banging on our doors and blowing things up, both at home and around the world.
Besides the failure on your part to recognize the obvious and proclivity to nit-pick, I was unaware that there was any substantive difference between the senseless deaths of innocents from a terrorist suicide bombing (on any scale) and those of the brutal murders of defenseless native peoples (your genocide)at the hands of the US calvary or the BIA today, all of it just callous neglect and indfference. Sorry, but being white and having might doesn’t make you right. I think living and dying under those circumstances would qualify the victims as being “terrorized”.
Living in perpetual fear is what constitutes terror. We aren’t, right now, but we sure know how to cause it around the world. THAT is what Mr. Fish is talking about. You should stop splitting hairs, in order to make yourself feel better.
Similarly, if you, as an African American, were living in slavery, subjected daily to all manner of abuse, maiming, lynching and a continual denial of your basic human rights, that probably would qualify as living in a state of fear and terror,as well. Some penitance here wouldn’t hurt, either. Instead, I read daily about the threats on the life of Obama, just because he is black. How “terrible” is that? Some people sem to think that is SOP for life in America. Does that not constitute a form of terror?
And, heck, while we are at it, let’s consider the 24/7 state of the terrorized minds of the innocent Iraqi or Afghani families who are routinely bombed from above, almost daily,living without adequate food, water or shelter, and who may easily be unjustly and randomly shot by some jerk in a Blackwater helo. Most people, I think, would call that form of existence “terrible”, as well.
I suggest that you buy a good dictionary, study up on your vocabulary and take a good, long look in the mirror. If you can get over being unduly offended, and sanctmoniously affronted, by what has happened and what is happening, every day, you might find yourself staring back at the same terrorist reflection that we all do, every time we can be honest about it.
It all stinks, but it’s all true.
By Purple Girl, May 18, 2008 at 5:56 am Link to this comment
Mass Media for all its short comeing sometimes does work for US inspite of itself.
It has done such a Revealing job of Not doing their jobs it ahs caused a public uproar
they have oversatiated US with propaganda, and have found it has the opposite effected when used to excess. Behavior Modifiction Back firing.The switch and the realization of the subliminal Switch from postive to negative reinforcement as your only ‘stimulus ’ and ‘Response’ You get subjective opposite outcomes. If you constantly give a dog a bitter treat- it will stop begging.If you contstatnly scare the dog and give it a bitter treat- they dog will not come near you to get the Treat.If you never give the dog a taste of anything sweet- it will jump the fence and run away.Chase it - it runs faster.
so We have been running Fast away from the BS ‘Reinforcements’ we have been punished with under This Administration, CorpNation and Religious Extremeist of various ‘Abominations’.
and the World IS Watching,they know there is dissent from the Citizens of this Country,they have seen,heard & Read our Outrage, and the Highjacking of our Democracy. NO real Attacks have been waged on US. they have been attacks on the “MIC”.They have NOt hit soft targets (soft because they are easy- hence the term!)
WE ahve not been attacked because WE ARE SPEAKING OUT and screaming Bloody Murder!.This is what built our great country and our reputation in the World. We are rather Strong headed, but WE are So for a GOOD reason. it is merely those Brick & mortars/TOOLS which run amok.
WE ARE Saving are own asses!The more we Reject , Refute, Rebuke the MIC (Hiders behind OUR Flag) the harder it is to recruit enemies to attack US.We get the hell off THEIR oil, get out of their region,by getting the MIC reined back in , the safe WE will Be.
I consider the deaths of 9/11 to be casued by those whos Policies & Procedures placed Our citizens at risk and used them as Human Shields (Ignorantly, arrogantly or Intentionally ).
to combat Terrorism You must defeat the causes- injustice,oppression, powerlessness, alienation, dismissal/disreagrd,and lack of, Or stolen, resources and essential ‘tools’ to fulfill their innate responsiblies and Needs.
to stop Terrorism we must not let it planted and Grow.Halting this Progession (regression of Humanity) we will have to squelch it from the the perspective of mind, body & soul.
By Expat, May 18, 2008 at 5:11 am Link to this comment
^ equated with actual terrorists; we are actual terrorists, silly boy. Two out of three ain’t bad though.
By Freddie, May 17, 2008 at 10:47 pm Link to this comment
So you too have forgotten what actual terrorism is in a mere 7 years, Ivan? Using the word “terrorism” the way “Mr Fish” did is certainly loose-lipped. Is it not? It equates the US government to actual terrorists. You cannot rationalize terrorism.
Terrorism is something specific. So is genocide. And so is slavery. What the US did to the native Americans was genocide. What the US did to African Americans was slavery. Some of what the US is doing now is very wrong, but it is not genocide, it’s not slavery and it’s certainly not terrorism. Do you understand?
“Mr Fish” knows what he’s doing. He is sympathizing with those that hate America. He’s basically saying “we brought this hate upon ourselves” - which is true and he makes a good point. But he takes it way to far by throwing in the word “terrorism”. By rationalizing terrorism specifically, in an attempt to equate US governments policies to it, Mr Fish is vindicating terrorists themselves; hence my comment that he is being a traitor. Terrorists are our enemies. Period. They are different than us. Unlike us they are purely evil. And the US never did anything to deserve their attacks.
“Mr Fish” should not have used that word.
I get it Mr. Hentschel. I get it loud and clear.
By Ivan Hentschel, May 17, 2008 at 9:01 pm Link to this comment
It seems really a shame, Freddie, that you don’t get it. Most of what the US has been doing to non-white, non-caucasian peoples in the last nearly three hundred years is pretty obscene. I doubt that any of the millions of displaced Iraqi civilians with dead family members would call us anything less than terrorists. And I suppose you think we have been kind to native Americans, disenfranchised African Americans and the countless porr of America without adequate housing or health care?
Wake up and look around. And stop throwing around loose-lipped, divisive words like “traitor”.
Mr. Fish is the unvarnished and necessarily realistic and truthful ugly and raw voice/face of America.
By Ivan Hentschel, May 16, 2008 at 4:48 pm Link to this comment
The reality would seem to be, that most people in the US really believe this canard to be the case. They really, honestly believe we love dogs and little children and care about the world. But the truth is that, “Hi. I’m here from the government, and I’m here to help you”, is a giant crock.
Yes, the dog should run like hell, but he should bite Sam repeatedly, first before he does so. Some bloodletting is in order.
By ChaxC, May 16, 2008 at 8:48 am Link to this comment
If I were that dog, I’d run like hell!
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