Winner 2013 Webby Awards for Best Political Website
Top Banner, Site wide
Apr 21, 2014

 Choose a size
Text Size

Top Leaderboard, Site wide





The Divide


Truthdig Bazaar more items

 
A/V Booth

‘Hope Is Action’: Hedges and Ellsberg Arrested at White House Protest

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share

Posted on Dec 17, 2010
YouTube

How’s this for hope? Chris Hedges speaks outside the White House during Thursday’s protest.

On Thursday, author, Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and Truthdig columnist Chris Hedges and Pentagon Papers whistle-blower Daniel Ellsberg were among the 131 anti-war activists arrested during a nonviolent demonstration outside the White House to protest against the war in Afghanistan as well as America’s ongoing conflicts in Iraq and Pakistan.

Hedges delivered a rousing speech about the nature of hope (in contrast to what certain campaign slogans might have suggested in recent years), pointing out that “hope has a cost, hope is not comfortable,” before joining other supporters of Veterans for Peace who chained themselves to the White House fence. When asked why he chose that course of action, Hedges replied, “Because it’s all we have left at this point. ... The normal mechanisms by which democratic participation are rendered possible in this country have been closed shut, and if we don’t do this, we die. This is what’s left of hope in this country.”

Ellsberg said he was drawn to the demonstration in part because veterans were leading the action. “I know that people here understand this war is as hopeless and wrong as the war we participated in in Vietnam, and it is not going to end by a presidential initiative,” he said. “It’ll only be because the American public has awakened to their responsibilities and to the realities of this war.” The “big lie” that the American government is telling its people now, Ellsberg believes, “is that these wars are protecting us at home.”  —KA

Click here for Hedges’ reflections on Thursday’s protest and arrests.

YouTube:

Advertisement

Square, Site wide

New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

By c-Hedges4Pres, February 16, 2011 at 12:25 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Chris Hedges is just the type of President we need.
I used to be dem, i then tried the rep’s even tried to start a new party.  all was useless because there was no vision.
He has the correct take on our country and why it is in such terrible shape.
Do it Chris, Run!

Report this

By ardee, December 28, 2010 at 6:59 am Link to this comment

moonraven, December 27 at 7:47 pm Link to this comment

ardee:

If you think the trolling here is substantial and uplifting, I have nothing to give you but the back of my hand.

Is this an example of irony? You are one of the worst examples of dishonest debate one finds in this forum. Keep the back of your hand to its real purpose, wiping the spittle from your chin after each one of your sorry efforts here.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 27, 2010 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

ardee:

If you think the trolling here is substantial and uplifting, I have nothing to give you but the back of my hand.

Learn to think and to read.  Or maybe it’s too late for you?

Report this

By MollyJ, December 27, 2010 at 12:23 pm Link to this comment

Does anyone know if there can be found the text of Hedges’ remarks on this date.  I have listened to them more than once and would like to save the text of them?

Report this

By ardee, December 27, 2010 at 7:29 am Link to this comment

moonraven, December 27 at 12:10 am

Perhaps it is you who bring this “new low” to this forum? Do you have anything of value to contribute? If so do so, Ive seen nothing of such as yet from you.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 26, 2010 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

Re: PatrickHenry, December 26 at 8:27 pm

Response: Deny our premises in ten words or less (http://www.scribd.com/rahyah) & (http://seagov.net/)honorably!

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 26, 2010 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment

Orbis,

Make your point in 10 words or less.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 26, 2010 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment

As a member of the 70% Majority Common Population, where the common majority is suppressed in favor of a nebulous Middle Class singularity with a Right-Wing, it is now fairly simple why the Lord would say to many ” ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’” in Matthew 7:22-23, even though they prophesied, cast out demons and did many wonders in the name of the Lord.

As for Bradley Manning, conservative war mongering “kill them all” philosophy of many religious leaders propagandizing against liberals and socialism for the majority population in television and radio media and in many conservative pulpits across the country, while partaking liberally and in a socialist manner themselves, within their own two minority aristocracies that control law and order, religion, the media, public education and the military at the expense of the 70% Majority Common Population; if Bradley Manning did what the military says he did, he has done a most wonderful thing for the 70% Majority Common Population, and is the liberal wing of democracy’s hero, as is Wikileaks and the New York Times, because they are making it known just how much real news has been and is being suppressed by our government’s corporate Military Industrial Complex arm for all the profit made from war.

When United States journalists are killed just because they are objective journalists that choose to report real news, it is time our country’s heroes stand up; and if Bradley Manning stood up, and it has not yet been proven that he actually did prior to him having to endure torture at the hands of the military,but if he did, he is a first class major hero and he should have a monument built for remembrance of his name and his name should go down in the history books as the catalyst that turned the country back to objective reality from thirty long years of subjective reality, where facts and causality are irrelevant for the 70% Majority Common Population and laws are made for harvesting the 70% Majority Common Population and the lesser and greater aristocracies are lawless.

Lawlessness of any minority population against the will of the majority population is lawlessness that is not inclusive of law and order that represents the majority population that is excluded from the making and enforcing of legislated law and order by the majority population and, therefore, lawlessness against both God and Man.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 26, 2010 at 3:16 pm Link to this comment

Re: PatrickHenry, December 26 at 7:57 pm

You State: “moonraver,

Does Orbis post spook you?

Fear of anothers opinion and belief is a sure sign of the scizophrenia you speak of.”

Response: PatrickHenry I believe your missing the point! I’m not in fear (F-false E-evidnece A-appearing R-real ‘or’ F-false E-education A-appearing R-real) of any opinions or beliefs of another. Such opinions or beliefs cause me little concern, unless evincing a design so pernicious as to foster the wholesale subjugation of the self-evident principles to which the Law’s of nature and Nature’s Creator have entitled us for the better ordering of our individual self-determination and the unalienable right in the exercise thereof, via the Science of Right Reason in Good Will seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!!!!

Lastly, failure to believe these stated inferences, you do at your own peril. But what we would humbly wish for you instead, is to apprise yourselves via the material we continue to foster for exhortation, edification, and your only political salvation, which is your only reasonable choice under the circumstances, that every individually faces globally or otherwise! It has always been your choice to believe what those who would enslave you tell you to believe…or…what, with your on reasoning, tells you to be the truth of any matter via the Science of Right Reason.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link (http://seagov.net/) found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 26, 2010 at 3:11 pm Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, December 26 at 5:11 pm,

blah.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 26, 2010 at 2:57 pm Link to this comment

moonraver,

Does Orbis post spook you? 

Fear of anothers opinion and belief is a sure sign of the scizophrenia you speak of.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 26, 2010 at 2:39 pm Link to this comment

Re: moonraven, December 26 at 7:10 pm

You State: “Orbis:

I really hope that your post means you are going to stop selling scizophrenia as a coping mechanism on this site.

Really, but really, tiresome.

Spooky, too.”

Response: Once again, you prove beyond a reasonable doubt, why it is the semblance parading herein, as the presumed intelligentsia only get worse—as 98% of so-called ‘Americans,’ of which you most adamantly are NOT!!!, until proven otherwise, lack any evidence of critical thinking skills, allow themselves to be lead like sheep to slaughter by the uber wealthy 2%, the so-called elite of your society of governance, built upon misrepresentations from womb to tomb.

Your own Retail trumps your idiotic religions. Your own Greed trumps any real charity. Your own Society is built upon the Incarceration of the Mind, trumps innocence every time because of your own schizophrenia! Your Minority manipulates the stupidity of your majority. And, for those ignorant enough to claim status as ‘We the People,’ rejoice in ceding your self-evident rights to the elite, so they can revel in your self-subjugation and stupidity.

If anyone herein, is selling schizophrenia as a coping mechanism on this site or elsewhere, it is your inability to face the undeniable Truth we’ve proffered for your own political survivability. Like Grandpa use to say to me…the guilty dog always barks first!!!

Keep barking like the Dogs of War for the elite who enslave you as sheep to sheer, as I seek to foster solutions to those waking up to their own demise!!!

Just like MarthaA, your failure to confront any true empirical evidence of your slavish condition and dialog us from the perspective of the Science of Right Reason, shows your ineptitude to help, guide, or lead those you claim are failing to act according to your directives. I can’t see them acting any other way in all honesty. When all they see or hear from you, is a rotatory mindset of imbecilic excuses!

It is a known fact that to educate or dialog one another, respective to any viewpoint, the simplest tool is to present either the facts or formula and ask the audience to prove the outcome to be otherwise! In your mind, as in any mindset perpetrating misrepresentations and not wishing to be proven wrong, by allowing such discussions to occur (because to do so would expose the weakness of your propositions or stated facts), you choose to cast character suppositions of negativism, in hopes of herding the audience of untrained minds away from the impact of the empirical evidence proffered, while keeping them from seeing their true State or mental condition of programmed fraud foisted upon them, and any solution which might extricate them from their demise!

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link (http://seagov.net/) found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 26, 2010 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

Orbis:

I really hope that your post means you are going to stop selling scizophrenia as a coping mechanism on this site.

Really, but really, tiresome.

Spooky, too.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 26, 2010 at 12:11 pm Link to this comment

Re: MarthaA, December 26 at 3:06 pm

You State: “You have been asked to declare the objectivity of your assertions, and YOU choose to declare the subjective ideology of YOUR assertions instead; therefore, further attempts at dialogue with you would prove to be just as unproductive as those of the past.

I, therefore, withdraw from further dialogue and leave you where I met you, with YOUR subjective assertions, asking OTHERS to objectively prove YOUR subjective assertions wrong; this is a tactic that works well for the Conservative Right-Wing Republican EXTREMISTS in both politics and religion and has led to much pain and remorse for all involved from the time of Goldwater to the present, and therefore, I cannot wish you well with your endeavor. “

Response: Apparently you are incapable of determining the difference between objectivity and subjectivity! Your failure to see and/or read the objectivity of our empirical evidence proffered (http://seagov.net/& http://www.scribd.com/rahyah), supporting beyond any reasonable doubt our subjective premises posted via this forum, concerning 70% of the American Populace you fail to assist, exposes you as either an agent provocateur for the systemic governance of misrepresentation being foisted upon billions of unsuspecting victims globally!!!!

Your failure to confront true evidence of your condition and dialog us from the perspective of the Science of Right Reason,  shows your ineptitude to help, guide, or lead those you claim are failing to act according to your directives. I can’t see them acting any other way in all honesty. When all they see or hear from you, is a rotatory mindset of imbecilic excuses!

It is a known fact that to educate or dialog one another, respective to any viewpoint, the simplest tool is to present either the facts or formula and ask the audience to prove the outcome to be otherwise! In your mind, as in any mindset perpetrating misrepresentations and not wishing to be proven wrong, by allowing such discussions to occur (because to do so would expose the weakness of your propositions or stated facts), you choose to cast character suppositions of negativism, in hopes of herding the audience of untrained minds away from the impact of the empirical evidence proffered, while keeping them from seeing their true State or mental condition of programed fraud foisted upon them, and any solution which might extricate them from their demise!

Lastly, failure to believe these stated inferences, you do at your own peril. But what we would humbly wish for you instead, is to apprise yourselves via the material we continue to foster for exhortation, edification, and your only political salvation, which is your only reasonable choice under the circumstances, that every individually faces globally or otherwise! It has always been your choice to believe what those who would enslave you tell you to believe…or…what, with your on reasoning, tells you to be the truth of any matter via the Science of Right Reason.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link (http://seagov.net/) found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 26, 2010 at 10:06 am Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, December 22 at 8:20 pm,

You have been asked to declare the objectivity of your assertions, and YOU choose to declare the subjective ideology of YOUR assertions instead; therefore, further attempts at dialogue with you would prove to be just as unproductive as those of the past.

I, therefore, withdraw from further dialogue and leave you where I met you, with YOUR subjective assertions, asking OTHERS to objectively prove YOUR subjective assertions wrong; this is a tactic that works well for the Conservative Right-Wing Republican EXTREMISTS in both politics and religion and has led to much pain and remorse for all involved from the time of Goldwater to the present, and therefore, I cannot wish you well with your endeavor.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 22, 2010 at 9:57 pm Link to this comment

I have a pair of socks for you folks.

One sock for each of you.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 22, 2010 at 3:20 pm Link to this comment

Re: MarthaA, December 22 at 4:52 pm.

You State: Orbis Unum, December 22 at 4:23 pm,

“The Science of Right Reason is never a balance of one thing against another.” —Orbis Unum, December 22 at 4:23 pm Truthdig Forum

And: MarthaA’s Response: Your claim then is that there is no substance to your argument.

If, by your own admission, there is no substance to your argument, why would anyone be interested in responding to your assertions?

Response: What and how do your reasonably conclude that I admit or assert there is no substance to my premises? Is it from your own ineffectual conclusions drawn from an inability to discern that the Science of Right Reason can only be measured successfully by it’s triumph over unreasoning and incompetence parading as if competent?

This is the only conclusion I can reasonably deduce from your attempt to slander our logical efforts with your ineffectual attempts by interjecting unsubstantiated remarks. Just like so many other commentators on this forum or otherwise, continually like the controlled press, who take the statements of another out of context, when lacking any ability to defend the veracity of the nature of the ‘Truth’ presented, which know one can reasonably or honorably doubt after examining the substantiated facts beyond any reasonable doubt!

If this is your only tool…fraud! Then I must agree with you. There exists emphatically beyond any reasonable doubt once again, that to believe someone appearing incompetent would be capable of answering self-aware emphasis or any premises proffered, predicated upon empirical and insurmountable prognosis to an illusion-airy intellectual stability of incompetence to do otherwise!!!   

Lastly, failure to believe these stated inferences, you do at your own peril. But what we would humbly wish for you instead, is to apprise yourselves via the material we continue to foster for exhortation, edification, and your only political salvation, which is your only reasonable choice under the circumstances, that every individually faces globally or otherwise! It has always been your choice to believe what those who would enslave you tell you to believe…or…what, with your on reasoning, tells you to be the truth of any matter via the Science of Right Reason.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 22, 2010 at 11:52 am Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, December 22 at 4:23 pm,

“The Science of Right Reason is never a balance of one thing against another.” —Orbis Unum, December 22 at 4:23 pm Truthdig Forum

MarthaA’s Response: Your claim then is that there is no substance to your argument.

If, by your own admission, there is no substance to your argument, why would anyone be interested in responding to your assertions?

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 22, 2010 at 11:23 am Link to this comment

Re: MarthaA, December 22 at 3:53 pm.

You State: Orbis Unum, December 22 at 5:20 am,

Reason is a balance of one thing against another, and acceptance of the vivacity of the impulses used in the balance.  What is the vivacity of the impulses that you use in the balance of ‘your reason’ that is in accordance with objective reality without recourse to your accepted doctrine?

Response: The Science of Right Reason is never a balance of one thing against another. It is the successful triumph over unreasoning, incompetence parading as if competent. Thereby, no need for your titillating vivacity!  Unless, you are willing to share some of your vivacity to apprise yourself of our nature via the premises we proffer, to consider the alternative reality you will face without recourse!

Lastly, failure to believe these stated inferences, you do at your own peril. But what we would humbly wish for you instead, is to apprise yourselves via the material we continue to foster for exhortation, edification, and your only political salvation, which is your only reasonable choice under the circumstances, that every individually faces globally or otherwise! It has always been your choice to believe what those who would enslave you tell you to believe…or…what, with your on reasoning, tells you to be the truth of any matter via the Science of Right Reason.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 22, 2010 at 11:06 am Link to this comment

Re: MarthaA, December 22 at 7:49 am.

You State: Orbis Unum, December 22 at 5:20 am,

I would read your whatever, but it takes far too long to open, so you will just have to make your point by yourself without the “we”.

Response: You state the obvious deduction one must deduce from the lack of empirical evaluation of the premises proffered to effectually discuss the issues related thereto, in any honorable conclusions.

It goes without saying, it is very disturbing you should choose to put everyone else (“we”) without garner evidence of consensus, into your own behavioral choice of action not to avail yourself of either the material to discuss the issues, while presenting your empirical summation of counterpoints. One must allows remember, that men can never escape being governed. Either they must govern themselves or they must submit to being governed by others. If from lawlessness or fickleness, from folly or self-indulgence, they refuse to govern themselves, then most assuredly in the end they will have to be governed from the outside!

You keep claiming the ‘American Populace’, which I infer you to mean the disenfranchised, for which you have not countered. So from this point of reference I proceed to state, that this populace you refer to can prevent the need of government from without only by showing that they posses the power of government from within, a sovereign can not make excuses for his failure; a sovereign must accept responsibility for the exercise of the power that inheres in him, and where, as it is true in our alliance, “the” people therein, are truly sovereign, then “the” people must show a sober understanding and a same and steadfast purpose if they are to preserve that orderly liberty upon which as a foundation every society must remain Stand!

For you to admit the lack of willingness to sacrifice your time and effort to consider discussing our premises for the possibility of either of us to foster or garner enlightenment, is no better than the U.S. Congress passing legislation without first reading such legislative acts. Not unlike the so-called Patriot Act!!! So why do you complain? You are no different than those you complain about! And, then you have the audacity to throw everyone else into your inactive unreasonable State of Mind without evidence of consensus. Usurping the free will of others to choose for themselves! 

You State: Is Fear the tactic for the “one world” you claim?  If not, why do you keep sending the peril patterned edition when you answer?  Faith, Peace, Light, and Love is my Hope, with NO FEAR.

Response: U.S. Pres. Roosevelt said it best, “[t]he only thing we have to fear is fear itself.” Well, I’m quite sure you failed to comprehend the ‘fear’ he was inferring about. Because if you had, you wouldn’t pander such prattle about peril in respect to the premises we proffer for your own possible political salvation. Apparently you and the U.S. Congress would fit very nicely in the “one world”, of ‘Fahrenheit 451’ since you choose not to read! Why, what would be the need for books or the liberty when one refuses to spend a little time waiting inline or whatever, to read any expression to foster ideas, when you’ve already chosen in-deference via slothfulness? And, this is what you’ve somehow decided for the rest to do?   

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 22, 2010 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, December 22 at 5:20 am,

Reason is a balance of one thing against another, and acceptance of the vivacity of the impulses used in the balance.  What is the vivacity of the impulses that you use in the balance of ‘your reason’ that is in accordance with objective reality without recourse to your accepted doctrine?

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 22, 2010 at 7:07 am Link to this comment

Moonraver,

Glass half empty, same difference. 

Your cup sure doesn’t ‘floweth over’ by any means.

Your more concerned with jerking off and sticking your thumb in places than posting our own commentary with your own opinions.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 22, 2010 at 2:49 am Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, December 22 at 5:20 am,

I would read your whatever, but it takes far too long to open, so you will just have to make your point by yourself without the “we”. 

Is Fear the tactic for the “one world” you claim?  If not, why do you keep sending the peril patterned edition when you answer?  Faith, Peace, Light, and Love is my Hope, with NO FEAR.

Ray Bradbury’s, ‘Fahrenheit 451’ explains “one world”, is ‘Fahrenheit 451’ the “one world” you seek?

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 22, 2010 at 12:20 am Link to this comment

Re: MarthaA, December 22 at 4:51 am.

You State: Orbis Unum, December 22 at 1:58 am,

You seem to be lost in the doctrine of your own delusions; good luck with that on a subjective basis as regards your delusions, but on an objective basis the vivacity of your delusions are without mass and volume.

Response: Your desire to leave one presumably operating in any presumable subjectivity as regards any alleged illusions (delusion means with out illusions to those educated in etymology) does not forebode well concerning your own character to defend competently objectively such concerns.

Maybe just like ‘Moonraven’ you just need some good healthy Cockburns. To help you adjust your approach mentally. Too discern not only linguistic usages when trying to point out presumptions which obviously mean another point of fact or view to the competent willing to exchange reasonable dialog!

In respect to your attempt to slander the Science of Right Reason, why don’t you just be reasonable and read the proffered evidence to prove us wrong if you can? And if such condition could ever occur honorably, I would do the honorable thing and recant my premises raised therein, to those more reasonably able and capable to discern differently! And before you attempt to do so subjectively, which your apparently operating mentally from, I suggest an empirical approach. Because I succinctly only operate from factual imperatives when considering the best approach to intellectual discourse!

Otherwise, those who chose to do otherwise, most assuredly will find themselves willingly leaving the field presented in an honorable fashion via such discourse establishing the facts thereof, that they are incapable of exercising the Science of Right Reason honorably to prove any counterpoint of reasonable and logical outcome to any discussion. And surely, you would not be one to act in this manner would you?

Lastly, failure to believe these stated inferences, you do at your own peril. But what we would humbly wish for you instead, is to apprise yourselves via the material we continue to foster for exhortation, edification, and your only political salvation, which is your only reasonable choice under the circumstances, that every individually faces globally or otherwise! It has always been your choice to believe what those who would enslave you tell you to believe…or…what, with your on reasoning, tells you to be the truth of any matter via the Science of Right Reason.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 21, 2010 at 11:51 pm Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, December 22 at 1:58 am,

You seem to be lost in the doctrine of your own delusions; good luck with that on a subjective basis as regards your delusions, but on an objective basis the vivacity of your delusions are without mass and volume.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 21, 2010 at 11:38 pm Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, December 22 at 1:58 am,

You seem to be lost in the doctrine of your own delusions; good luck with that on a subjective basis as regards your delusions, but on an objective basis the vivacity of your delusions are without mass and volume.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 21, 2010 at 10:25 pm Link to this comment

Do I really have to point out that object of contention respective to Moonraven’s intellectual prowess is a determinate held within the eye of the beholder. Like they say….one man’s capabilities are another’s demise!!!

The outcome of futility to argue with the incompetent does not forebode well for those trying to keep the flees of insignificance from infecting them!!!

Unless resort is made to the Science of Right Reason. Which at all times unites reasonable intelligence to its aid. Rarely do the competent come to the aid of the incompetent unless there is the presence of such atrocities occurring, which shock the sensibilities of reasonable minds to prevent injustice. Because such would be an injustice to all. But this is not one of those instances!

Lastly, failure to believe these stated inferences, you do at your own peril. But what we would humbly wish for you instead, is to apprise yourselves via the material we continue to foster for exhortation, edification, and your only political salvation, which is your only reasonable choice under the circumstances, that every individually faces globally or otherwise! It has always been your choice to believe what those who would enslave you tell you to believe…or…what, with your on reasoning, tells you to be the truth of any matter via the Science of Right Reason.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 21, 2010 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

Inherit the Windbag, as always, is incorrect—and foolishly so.

A glass half full mentality is POSITIVE/optimistic, whereas seeing the glass as half empty is NEGATIVE/pessimistic.

Inherit the Windbag is completely empty—the plastic progressive site equivalent of absolute zero—as the only thing he has posted on Truthdig are personal attacks against this poster because she believes that an ass is for moving itself:  not for sitting and sucking one’s thumb on nor for, in the case of our resident infantile Windbag, talking out of.

A mind is a terrible thing to waste—but then, if you were born without one, it may very well not matter.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 21, 2010 at 9:27 pm Link to this comment

“How can a half-FULL mentality be negative?”

Let’s say, for argument’s sake, that PH has an IQ of 130.  Call that a full glass.

That puts yours at 75.

I guess for you this is hard to comprehend, but it’s pretty damn clear to everyone else.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 21, 2010 at 9:24 pm Link to this comment

moonraven, December 22 at 12:45 am Link to this comment

Orbus,

Put a sock in it, please.

This site is smeared with enough senseless prattle to cover the White House.
************

Yeah, Orbis! Your argument, with its logical progression is giving the moonraver brain freeze!

How DARE you dare to think!
How DARE you dare to express those thoughts!

When “The Revolution” comes moonraver defarge will be sure to put an end to THAT!

Makes her head hurt too much.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 21, 2010 at 8:58 pm Link to this comment

Re: MarthaA, December 22 at 12:29 am.

You State: “...the American Populace should withdraw and represent their own interests and let others, as classes and cultures, go their own way.” And, “…establish their own law and order as their Natural Right of Self Determination…”

Response: First of all, let me make one thing very clear…the term America, Americas, American…whatever, is owned outright by the American Populace that established the Grand Corporation styled “The United States of America” and by contract gave up all right and title, without any conditions set forth…etc.,” to the United States (preamble of the Consti. 1787) as set forth in the chief case at bar Non. 94-6415 & 94-6417. Order & Judgment , Apr 07 1995. 

Secondly, the term ‘America’ and any all derivatives or variations thereof, are copyrighted trademarks of the Constitutors via the contract aforementioned and commonly referred to as U.S. Consti. and more specifically applicable to Art. VI (1787-89) thereof.

Thirdly, what you refer to as America Populace….must be referring to the disenfranchised believing themselves ‘American’s’ via corporate misrepresentation, when in fact they are far from this contractually speaking, no matter what you may believe or think otherwise. So, the inference you give to so-called ‘Americans’ to act or do something in truth, has already be accomplished by those truly, factually known, and rightfully claiming any entitlements thereunder, as Americans circa 1776 & 1789.

Fourthly, for one claiming any rights to any entitlements, related to those secured by the Constitutors via the U.S. Const. Art. VI, must proffer beyond any reasonable doubt, evidence in support of Standing per the Preamble of the U.S. Consti. laying out the parties to the agreement. Failure to do this, reduces one to a tort feasor via slander and libelous trespasser against the intellectual property rights of another. Thereby, giving rise to charges federally amounting to no less than 250,000 in U.S. Funds and whatever the U.S. Court of Jurisdiction may otherwise deem appropriate.

Fifthly, I may use certain intellectual property rights in the pursuit of the protocols established via the Treaty of Peace existing between the S.E.A., U.S. & U.N., for educational purposes to foster Self-determination amongst many other predicated facts applicable to protocol.

Lastly, failure to believe these stated inferences, you do at your own peril. But what we would humbly wish for you instead, is to apprise yourselves via the material we continue to foster for exhortation, edification, and your only political salvation, which is your only reasonable choice under the circumstances, that every individually faces globally or otherwise! It has always been your choice to believe what those who would enslave you tell you to believe…or…what, with your on reasoning, tells you to be the truth of any matter via the Science of Right Reason.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 21, 2010 at 8:42 pm Link to this comment

Your post makes no sense, PH.

How can a half-FULL mentality be negative?

What the hell is positive, then?

I think your skull is running on empty, buckaroo.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 21, 2010 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment

Moonraver,

Your posts suggest a glass half full mentality.

Booga, booga, el gringo is under your bed.

Rarely have I witnessed other posters attitudes as negative towards others points of view.  Broad brush ignorance, racism and bigotry is something to behold.

Its the same in every language, you should know it well.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, December 21, 2010 at 8:01 pm Link to this comment

Re: moonraven,December 20 at 7:47 pm.

Quote
=====

Sodium:

You are easily pleased,I think.

Unquote
=======

moonraveb,

Yes,I am easily pleased,not by what you think,but by novel ideas and fine posts that make sense.

Cheers…

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 21, 2010 at 7:45 pm Link to this comment

Orbus,

Put a sock in it, please.

This site is smeared with enough senseless prattle to cover the White House.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 21, 2010 at 7:29 pm Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, December 21 at 5:34 am,

The answer is that the American Populace should withdraw and represent their own interests and let others, as classes and cultures, go their own way.  It is not necessary for a class and culture to bargain for its own self determination; it is only necessary for a class and culture to separate and pursue its own self determination.

The only recourse that the American Populace have as a class and culture is to, by self determination, promulgate their own law and order, and that the American Populace, who are not represented by established law and order of the American Aristocracy and Middle Class, establish their own law and order as their Natural Right of Self Determination and thereby represent their own lawful interests of self determination by way of the American Populace’s own legislation and enforcement authority of their own law and order in the same manner as is accomplished by the American Aristocracy and Professional Middle Class as competing classes and cultures.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 21, 2010 at 2:37 pm Link to this comment

In respect to individuals who claim that the Science of Right Reason doesn’t exist, must arise from those operating from the Standpoint of nothing as the answer to all things. But since things don’t exist or answers in nothing, nothing effects things established otherwise. Thereby self-awareness arising from the ancient question ‘to be or not to be’ matters nothing to the unreasoning to fathom the questions or answers in the first instance!

I have at all times tried my hardest to refrain from commenting in any form of disrespectful mannerisms appertaining to other posters herein, who in like-kind abide in the same manner!

My social and ethical behavior, while striving to proffer or receive exchanges related to further enlightenment or garner such for myself, is founded up the Golden Rule. This Rule fosters the idea that one must do unto others exactly as they would have you do unto them. This idea is Deduced from their own actions toward you. To do otherwise, would be disrespectful to those proffering behavior they so adamantly deem acceptable to pander toward others. And logical reasoning must deduce from these interaction as the expression of socially accepted forms of interactions to be respectful to one another! Of course, this Rule has been deduced from such observations via the Science of Right Reason.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 21, 2010 at 1:48 pm Link to this comment

Orbus:

The “Science of Right Reason” does not exist.

What is all this cowardly psychobabble you folks are posting?

Too much eggnog?

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 21, 2010 at 12:34 am Link to this comment

Re: MarthaA, December 21 at 4:41 am.

You state: Establish class and cultural law and order for the American Populace that will replace the class and cultural law and order imposed upon the American Populace by the established class and cultural law and order made and imposed upon the American Populace by the American Aristocracy and the Professional Middle Class…

Response: This cannot not be accomplished without inclusion universally, for those willing respective to those under prior illusions of justification via programs of misrepresentation foisted upon them via the same Centers of Education to perpetuate misdirection over 70% of the U.S. population you claim to be referencing.

This means that those exercising various duties under current political constructs must be given opportunities to adjust to knowledge of conditioning, as those aware before hand, trying to bring about peaceful solutions oriented toward Standing before the Law of Equality and Justice via variation by Agreement. 

You State: ...the American Populace as a class and culture should not contend with the established class and cultural law and order of the American Aristocracy and American Professional Middle Class, but should withdraw from the rule of class and cultural law and order of the American Aristocracy and American Professional Middle Class and rule as the American Populace over the American Populace with law and order of, by and for the American Populace as a 70% Majority Common Population of the United States.

Response: Not to proffer reasonable solutions to vested interests (what you term, class manifested) operating under illusions along with your claimed 70% Majority of the U.S. population, without taking into considerations global conditioning as well, forebodes limited success and possibly perpetuates a paradigm not unlike which exists presently or historically. Simply put, such actions may be viewed as imperially isolationist. When reality is, that your living in a global economy and eventually greater universally speaking. Simply arising from advancement in technology!

What we proffer is universal diversity with infinite possibilities via Variation by Agreement.

By educating individuals about their utter lack of Standing to effectuate any outcome, absence agreements to State a Claim for which Relief can be granted.

To many individuals today lack the necessary education on how to approach cognitive awareness applicable to creating agreements, to acquire Standing with those exercising Standing presently via variation of agreement and bargain for the self-same unalienable rights to which the Law’s of Nature and Nature’s Creator have entitled All Walks of Life to exercise. Via reasonable self-determination seeking Universal Peace.

Bargaining is a must, because no one individual can know for certain without evidence to prove otherwise, just how to interact when enter the domain of another, or how another may do the same in counter respect thereto, when treating for whatever reasons.   

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click on the web link found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of Life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 20, 2010 at 11:41 pm Link to this comment

Orbis Unum, December 21 at 3:58 am,

Establish class and cultural law and order for the American Populace that will replace the class and cultural law and order imposed upon the American Populace by the established class and cultural law and order made and imposed upon the American Populace by the American Aristocracy and the Professional Middle Class; the American Populace as a class and culture should not contend with the established class and cultural law and order of the American Aristocracy and American Professional Middle Class, but should withdraw from the rule of class and cultural law and order of the American Aristocracy and American Professional Middle Class and rule as the American Populace over the American Populace with law and order of, by and for the American Populace as a 70% Majority Common Population of the United States.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 20, 2010 at 10:58 pm Link to this comment

Re: moonraven, December 21 at 12:44 am.

You stated: As I continue to say:  Revolution or Nothing. There is no middle ground.

Response: While people continue to struggle pro or con, with a reality unknown or unseen to most, they are left to live out their lives in a reality manufactured for them and created long ago. For purposes only the middle ground would be capable of detecting or discerning via the Science of Right Reason and creating possibilities to overcome for obvious reasons.

To say there is no middle ground, denies the possibility of human imagination, which is tantamount to material heresy against the Science of Right Reason. And, it goes without saying, if one chooses to ignore universal diversity in infinite possibilities existing via the Science of Right Reason to overcome in adversity via human imagination, becomes what is termed, adamant heretics by their own design of utter unreasonable destructive futility to see or imagine otherwise.

To quote Mahatma Gandhi, “Victory obtained by violence is tantamount to defeat, for it is momentary.” And, “It is better to be violent if there is violence in your hearts, than to put on the cloak of nonviolence to cover impotence.”

What Gandhi’s true meaning was, of course if for each to decide predicated upon their own perfect condition. But the Science of Right reason deduces from Gandhi’s meaning to mean, that violence begets violence and those incapable of peaceful solutions oriented toward All Walks of Life seeking Good Will in the interest of Universal Peace, will always be unwilling to face violence due to their true violent natures. But peaceful people consider the weight of sacrifice necessary to build the foundations for lasting peace must be paid in a price we all hold most dear, life!

So, for all those who want to perpetuate violence, must face the fact that no altercation is ever settled by force no matter what any history books tell you. To envision this, one only must understand the dogma of vendetta! And, the only way to overcome any vendetta or violence for violence, is the willingness to sacrifice or offer up one so innocent, as to shock the minds of humankind, to the very core of their sensibilities, any willingness to perpetrate any violence against such innocence, allowing humanity to be able to see the gravity of the outcome and injustice to all concerned, to do commit such atrocities. 

What we offer is nothing short of evolution of the middle ground, which rest upon the foundation of imagination and the ability to educate for the sake of education without misrepresentation, to let each find themselves worthy of infinite possibilities via universal diversity, rather than ignorant, blind, and uneducated violence when facing choices, which will determine the historical course of humanity during this millennium.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

And if one chooses, they may chose to click of the web link found within the aforementioned earlier web link given, for further simple discussions, appertaining to the Right of Self-determination of All Walks of life, to evolve in the interest of Universal Peace and the supporting constructs applicable thereto.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 20, 2010 at 10:05 pm Link to this comment

moonraven, December 21 at 2:36 am,

There is always time to represent your own interests as the interests of your class and culture in a political struggle, or be branded as a criminal by competing classes and cultures if you choose to contend with their legislated law and order;— if you choose to contend, you will be branded a criminal and not a patriot to your own class and culture in a political struggle, and for you time is at an end with regard to being a patriot in a political struggle and it is time to serve your sentence as a criminal.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 20, 2010 at 9:36 pm Link to this comment

Martha:

There’s always time

until there isn’t.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 20, 2010 at 9:01 pm Link to this comment

moonraven, December 21 at 12:44 am,

The 70% Majority Common Population is a class and culture and it is never too late to lay the political infrastructure agenda for a class and cultural struggle against the two aristocracies, if we don’t we will all be criminals against their infrastructures and won’t even be allowed political refuge by other nations, should the necessity arise.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 20, 2010 at 7:44 pm Link to this comment

Martha:

It’s a it late for laying the infrastructure for class struggle.

As I continue to say:  Revolution or Nothing.

There is no middle ground.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 20, 2010 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

I am reminded of a kid’s toy that as soon as it bumps into the littlest obstacle reverses direction.

She was against it before she was for it, which was before she was against it again!

Her disassociation with reality boggles the mind.  Reminds me of my mother-in-law years ago:
Me: Son, don’t do that.
MIL: No, it’s OK.
Me: Please don’t contradict me.
MIL: I’m not contradicting you.

So…“I’m not a bigot you dirty gringo!”—-DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 20, 2010 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

moonraven, December 20 at 8:43 pm,

True, those huddled masses of the common population have been there all along, it is just that they haven’t been under bridges and on sidewalks, which is what is going to continue happening if the common population doesn’t organize for political representation of their 70% majority huddled mass as a class and culture, so that they can use the power of their majority huddled mass to get political representation so that they will be heard on their issues of economy, war and peace, otherwise they will continually be treated as subjects by the 2 aristocracies and ignored.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 20, 2010 at 3:43 pm Link to this comment

Martha,

Those huddled masses have been there all along.

But they believed when they were told that shopping at the mall and buying a big TV to watch Foxy Loxy News meant that they were really middle class.

Sort of like how folks here in Mexico believed Salinas in 1993 when he told them that signing NAFTA meant they were part of the First World.

People are stupid.

Just the way it is.

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 20, 2010 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment

War is good for the economy, just not the economy of the people, the American populace, the 70% majority Common Population, that are fast becoming the huddled masses.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 20, 2010 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

Sodium:

You are too easily pleased, I think.

It never occurs to you folks who believe that the US is the Unbeatable Superbully that funding was cut to the Vietnam war because it had been clear to the Top Cats that 1) the war had been lost, and that—furthermore and more importantly:  2) the WWII-vintage slogan that war was good for the economy had imploded under its own excremental weight.

I remember the early 70s—the dropping of the gold standard, the petroleum crises, daylight savings time imposed in the middle of winter (as wartime was imposed during WWII), phony wage and price controls—the whole bumbling financial incompetence of the Nixon government.

Nevertheless, in the words of Yogi Berra, It wasn’t over till it was over:  and that was when Saigon fell and the US military spy headquarters (euphemistically called the “embassy”) was evacuated.

And that happened when the Vietnamese peoples’ armies overran Saigon. 

It ain’t called Ho Chi Minh City now for nothin’, buckeroo.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, December 20, 2010 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

Re: PatrickHenry,December 20 at 12:11 pm.

Quote
=====

Actually,it was the Case-Church Amendment which ended the Viet Nam war for America. It re-affirmed that only Congress could declare war,not the President. They began feeling the heat at home so they cut off funding.

If the military had its way,we would be still there.

Unquote
========

AN EXCELLENT POST!

You have finally hit it so correctly,PatrickHenry.

Yes,indeed,cutting funding was the effective catalyst that initiated a series of consecutive reactions,one after the other,the most important of which were:

* Absence of a massive transfer of tools and machinaries of war from the United States to the American troops in Viet Nam and to the government of South Vietnam as well.

* Acceleration of the emergence of the Moral Majority,with its right-wing leaning,in American politics.

* The weighty activities of the Moral Majority in American elections succeeded in electing Ronald Reagan as President of the United States for the 1980’s.

Since then it has been down-hill for the average working Americans and American poor as well,with an endless government DEREGULATIONS for the greed of big corporations.

PatrickHenry: Your post quoted above is,indeed,a persuasive one and brought memories of the past,one might not be fond of recalling,but persuasive,nevertheless. At least to me. Thank you.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 20, 2010 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

Just a few quick ones, as it is obvious that most of you have chosen to empty your skulls and/or place them in very dark places that do not allow either the passage of light or the use of reason.

1.  This poster, despite the hatespeech and ongoing personal attacks directed towrds my virtual person by the supporters of the gringo policy of genocide towards all non-whites on the planet, has never called for “violent revolution”.  I have, in fact, indicated, that I support the Bolivarian project for Twentyfirst Century Socialism—a NONVIOLENT revolution.

2.  Nor do I support sweeping generalizations which condemn all attempts to free folks from tyranny as producing more of the same tyranny.  It is clear that most folks on this site prefer to live under tyranny than to even TRY to exercise freedom—and that’s your perfect right to choose.  I am not inclined to join you in your whinging and puling—and that is MY perfect right.

3.  I will not bother to draw once again the simple blueprint that I have drawn on both this silly site and CommonNightmares for how to bring the US government and commerce to its knees.  The last time I did the response was the knocking of virtual knees, the chattering of virtual teeth and the peeing of virtual pants.

4.  Those of you who have chosen to believe that the US is the Undefeated Superbully and did not, finally, get its ass kicked out of Saigon are those who, refusing to confront the past, do do understand one whit about the present and therefore are preventing the rest of life on this planet from having a future.

Report this
Leo Wong's avatar

By Leo Wong, December 20, 2010 at 1:44 pm Link to this comment

The one thing certain is that history will be different from what we expect it to be.  Even then, there will be some people who will say, “I told you so.”  They will not be historians.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 20, 2010 at 1:04 pm Link to this comment

Re: moonraven, December 20 at 1:57 am.

You State: PH: I do not agree, and neither do historians.

And you are kidding yourself if you believe you live in a democracy and that street protests and phone calls to the folks you voted for not to represent you have any effect.

Kidding oneself is just another form of jerking off.  It may be fun, but it doesn’t perpetuate life.

Response: Over all, this statement is correct in its premise but not for the reasons ‘Moonraven’ reiterates from a program of misdirection.

You State: The Vietnamese kicked out the gringos in Saigon in April of 1975, just like they had booted out the French 20 years earlier.

Response: Besides the fact that posters and columnists alike within the this forum, allow your hate-words of foul racist bigotry to parade unchecked by the Moderators, I must say your facts concerning the “alleged” demise or defeat of the U.S. Military in S. Vietnam with the presumed downfall of Saigon (Ho Chi Minh City) in 1975, even when a treaty of Peace was signed by both parties in January 1973, fails to take into consideration knowledge outside your pay-scale or otherwise. Whatever military operations have been executed or remain active globally or otherwise, have a very definite orchestrated purpose and outcome planned long before any actual fighting begins. One only has to reflect upon (read: A Bright Shining Lie: John Paul Vann and America in Vietnam) why the U.S. refused to accept Vietnam as a “Protectorate Territory” according to the U.N. Charter against the backdrop and ‘Ho Chi Minh’s’ official request to the President of the U.S. (Harry S. Truman) for such protection after WWII in 1945 via the claim accorded by the principles of the Declaration of Independence of the U.S.A. Pres. Truman refused and for this refusal 100s of thousands lost their lives in an unnecessary conflict just as in the Korean Conflict. Both by the way, legally or lawfully never considered declared Wars…only Police Actions! All under the direction of the U.N. No matter what any of you may think otherwise, or what program of misdirection you received in whatever public (fool) system led you to believe. PERIOD!!!

It is not my place to inform you otherwise, any depth, concerning knowledge others deem you unworthy of, but the solution to the acquisition of knowledge and questions related to unworthiness may only be expressed via the Science of Right Reason.

As I have said, over and over, Standing is the only important issues related to exercising commonweal (to Chose) when confronted with Arbitrary Powers and what to you appears to be Unregulated Monopolies.

So, with whatever regards for the lack of your just perceptions, both related to history and bigotry, for which your are more than aptly perfect for, just remember, what goes around comes around!!!

One can not expect to be treated humanly while acting inhumanly. And bigotry for all intents and purposes is violent and reactionary from an overly inept ability to confront the true facts, while lacking the Science of Right Reason to foster greater respect above the dismay of disrespect and the lack of either knowledge or reason.

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
David J. Cyr's avatar

By David J. Cyr, December 20, 2010 at 12:23 pm Link to this comment

QUOTE (Leo Wong):

“Violent revolution is not the only alternative.”
____________

That might have been true before, but isn’t true now.

Decade upon decade of liberals being determined to not “waste” their votes on non-corporate party candidates have eliminated the nonviolent options.

By that great mass of liberals having so regularly and earnestly activist Democrat acted in firm solidarity with the corporate state, and resolute conformity and obedience to it, all nonviolent options have become no longer useful. They have no potential now to be effective.

What’s truly unfortunate is that the future violence that the liberals’ have made inevitable will not provide a revolution… nor any substantive change for the good.

The violent response of individuals, who can no longer endure the violence done to them by the corporate state, will mostly be inflicted by those individuals upon their spouses, children, friends and coworkers.

Liberals maintain the violence of the state by their routinely ensuring conservative victories.

The liberal “progressives” are covert conservatives.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, December 20, 2010 at 12:01 pm Link to this comment

ITW stated,

“Calls for violent revolution will fail.  At least I hope so.  But a movement for true change?  If the Teabaggers can do it, why can’t we?”

Bankrolling by the Kotch family for one and plenty of publicity by the Mass Sucking Mothers for 2.

Revolutions have a tendency to go south after the stand back and watch opportunists rise to the top soon as the dust settles.

I know cynical, but history supports my cynicism. Hell I believe this has been happening to the Democrats for some time now, probably taken over by the Repubs, (Blue dogs my ass)  making this a one party country.

ITW, you probably know much more history than I, so hopefully you can prove me wrong?

Report this
Lafayette's avatar

By Lafayette, December 20, 2010 at 11:54 am Link to this comment

Perhaps Mr. Hedges divinity school background would be of more use were he teaching Americans about religion, his field of training, rather than trying to teach civics lessons.

And perhaps not. Methinks America has enough godliness to last it for the rest of this millennium—given it finished the last one with a very, very healthy supply of it.

Besides, I figure the Roman Emporers got it right a long time ago. They made sure the plebeians had plenty of wine, games and polentum. (Modern version: beer, sports and fries ...)

Report this
Leo Wong's avatar

By Leo Wong, December 20, 2010 at 11:29 am Link to this comment

Violent revolution is not the only alternative.  Consider, for example, Bill Kauffman’s Bye Bye, Miss American Empire: Neighborhood Patriots, Backcountry Rebels, and their Underdog Crusades to Redraw America’s Political Map.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 20, 2010 at 11:24 am Link to this comment

It’s rare for me to agree with Ardee on ANYTHING, but his correction is welcome. There is a major difference between non-violent revolution and violent ones.

But non-violent revolutions is more frequently described as non-violent civil disobedience, such as Hedges’ and Ellsberg’s act, or the familiar sit-ins and boycotts of the Civil Rights Movement and Gandhi’s battle against British rule.

Violent revolutions are, I contend, rarely better than what they overthrow.  The only possible exceptions that comes to mind are the violent overthrow of Mussolini in 1945 and of the Ceausescus in Romania.

But we have not even gotten to the preliminary steps of non-violent revolution.  There have not been significant public assemblies for redress of grievances, there has been little or no organization, there has barely been ANYTHING to mobilize the public.  This recent arrest is just a little thing, unless it takes off and becomes more common.

The anti-Vietnam protest movement didn’t spring up overnight.  There were demonstrations as early as 1964 that would draw 10,000 people if they were lucky.  6 years later 100,000 or 200,000 was more normal and all over, but IT TOOK TIME AND ORGANIZATION!  And that took motivation.

Calls for violent revolution will fail.  At least I hope so.  But a movement for true change?  If the Teabaggers can do it, why can’t we?

Report this
David J. Cyr's avatar

By David J. Cyr, December 20, 2010 at 10:03 am Link to this comment

QUOTE: (of an unperson avatar… offering its beneficiaries a fart):

“In every violent revolution a few people gain power and everyone else loses it.”
____________

It is those millions who have refused to “waste” their votes voting against war; those millions who have refused to “waste” their votes voting for actual healthcare; those millions who have refused to “waste” their votes voting for social and economic justice; those millions who have refused to “waste” their votes voting for environmental sustainability who have made violence the only option Left available.

Those who vote to maintain the system vote to maintain the violence of the system. They cause nonviolent alternatives to be not any part of the art of the possible.

Report this

By ardee, December 20, 2010 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

In every violent revolution a few people gain power and everyone else loses it.  Then there are the brief five-minute trials followed by immediate summary executions.  I don’t care if it’s the Russian Bolshevik revolution or the Shi’ia Iranian religious revolution, if it’s Fidel Castro in Cuba, or Sheik Omar in Afghanistan.  Marxist, religious, Fascist—all revolutions work the same way.

Revolutions are supposed to bring freedom. They don’t. They only bring worse oppression and summary executions.

Generalizations are so seldom of worth…...Of course, I look to nonviolent revolution as the cure for what ails us. The real truths are generally a mixed bag, some good, some bad. Violent revolutions that overthrow tyrants, as did the Cuban Revolution,the French and our own for that matter, are simply starting points.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 20, 2010 at 7:11 am Link to this comment

Moonraven,

Actually it was the Case-Church Amendment which ended the Vietnam war for America.  It reaffirmed that only Congress could declare war, not the president.  They began feeling the heat at home so they cut off funding.

If the military had its way, we would still be there.

Report this

By Freedom for humanity, December 20, 2010 at 6:34 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

HI !! Thanks for this Greatest action . I’m a young in Europe and i’m for peace in the worl (sorry for my bad English ) . Don’t despear because we fight for the right and peace . Your hope is my hope
MR OBAMA ,Rockfeller,Rochild stop sheding the blood of innocents for the money
PEACE PEACE PEACE .

Report this
MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, December 19, 2010 at 11:06 pm Link to this comment

The people who are not being listened to need to understand that they are not being listened to because they have no representation.  In order to be listened to they will need to quit acting like aristocratic subjects and get together a political agenda for representation so that their movement will have meaning,  instead of only being an annoyance to the aristocracies. 

An organized “political agenda for representation of the 70% majority common population” would have significant meaning all over the world, otherwise the aristocracies will blow off all commoner endeavors and carry out their aristocratic endeavors against the will of the people as long as they choose in whatever manner they choose.

Report this
Leo Wong's avatar

By Leo Wong, December 19, 2010 at 10:54 pm Link to this comment

It isn’t often I look forward to Monday.

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 19, 2010 at 10:39 pm Link to this comment

In every violent revolution a few people gain power and everyone else loses it.  Then there are the brief five-minute trials followed by immediate summary executions.  I don’t care if it’s the Russian Bolshevik revolution or the Shi’ia Iranian religious revolution, if it’s Fidel Castro in Cuba, or Sheik Omar in Afghanistan.  Marxist, religious, Fascist—all revolutions work the same way.

Revolutions are supposed to bring freedom. They don’t. They only bring worse oppression and summary executions.

Naturally this is what Madame Moonraver Defarge wants and calls for, because she doesn’t believe she will be one of the victims when the revolution turns cannibal and starts devouring its own. I can just imagine her summarily saying about me “Shoot him!”  You can read the inherent viciousness in her posts.

Report this

By Monjourno, December 19, 2010 at 10:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The protests would better be aimed and directed at military recruiter stations and venues everywhere and all the time—- before they induct our young men and women for prosecuting their undeclared unlawful wars. Parents, be unbrainwashing the youth at home and on the streets. Intercede on their behalf. The youth may still have a glimmer of hope to listen. Washington won’t and does NOT.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 19, 2010 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

PH:

I do not agree, and neither do historians. 

And you are kidding yourself if you believe you live in a democracy and that street protests and phone calls to the folks you voted for not to represent you have any effect.

Kidding oneself is just another form of jerking off.  It may be fun, but it doesn’t perpetuate life.

The war ended when North Vietnam won.  Saigon fell, and that was that.

The Vietnamese kicked out the gringos in Saigon in April of 1975, just like they had booted out the French 20 years earlier.

When you bring government, big bucks, big guns, big pharma and big oil to its knees they will first try to kill you, then try to lock you up and finally, try to negotiate with you.

Until then, they will continue to flip you the finger.

Report this

By gerard, December 19, 2010 at 8:47 pm Link to this comment

Norma, don’t be so sure!  Why is it rumored that Facebook is “surveilled” even keeping watch on those indignificant little personal messages?  Why the enormous electronic business keeping track of everybody and everything under the rubric of “anti-terrorism”?  Why the rumors that there is another attack coming soon”  Why keep people scared—too scared to object to being bugged, xx-rayed, patted down, treated like animals on the way to slaughter?
Why the exclusion of facts and news critical of the government? Why the misinformation? Why the panic over the “leaks”—as though it’s any more than a massice load of news people ought to know if they are to get any control back from their government? 
  The government, in spite of enormous weapons of mass destruction, performs every day like a frightened monster afraid to look in its mirror.
  My contention is that such a government is extremely fragile, can crumble at any moment and cave in on itself because of its monstrous complexity, hidden flaws and arrogant immorality.
This beast is not the United States of America, but a chimera constructed of decades of unlimited wishful thinking, economic greed and military power out of control.
  If Somebody can prove me wrong I’ll be elated. As it is, I’m heart broken.
  As to the holidays—millions are homeless, sick, hungry, unfairly held in prisons, forgotten and forlorn.  It’s farcical to celebrate under such circumstances, sorry to say.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 19, 2010 at 8:41 pm Link to this comment

re:  moonraven, December 19

I live 20 miles outside D.C. and have seen almost every imaginable protest, riot, sit-in, you name it.

When the protests began getting regular, larger and more violent the war ended.

In Democracy, there’s nothing like constituants visiting their congressmen with torches and pitchforks to envoke change.

Report this
sallysense's avatar

By sallysense, December 19, 2010 at 7:34 pm Link to this comment

each time news brings things of unfairness from big shots…
and more lives and resources lay wasting away somewhere…
may your conscience be the wikileaks inside your own mind…
to either expose to you a hypocrite or show a human who cares!...

folks there’s lotsa places where you can take your voice and be heard!... lend a helping hand!... help to make a difference!... stand up for what you believe in!...

(or does this commenter’s creed ?... apply to you?)...

i do my best to better things by sharing my opinions!...
so i’ll leave it up to others to give bad events good riddance!...
don’t look for me near worthy deeds in need of hands to help them!...
but follow these columns as things get worse and watch me comment again!...

the best of wishes’n'ways’n'todays for doing something!... smile

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 19, 2010 at 7:25 pm Link to this comment

Al Molliter:

Acting for the sake of acting is just an attempt to cover up cowardice and salve a guilty conscience.

It really should be obvious, but:  Revolution or Nothing.

Folks are clearly choosing Nothing—which is nihilism, which is the nada, which is death.

As always, Inherit the Windbag is here to contribute personal attacks and jerk off to racist epithets.

Pathetic.

Report this

By Al Mollitor, December 19, 2010 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment

Moonraven, while many of us may well have been - or may well be - “too chickenshit to act,” if I understand you correctly, all action against the Viet Nam war was ineffective, so what’s the point of acting now?

Report this

By Inherit The Wind, December 19, 2010 at 5:07 pm Link to this comment

Moonraver is truly scary.  Clearly she has the soul of Madame Defarge, happily knitting while heads are chopped off.

Her understanding of why the US war effort failed in Viet Nam is her usual total misunderstanding and hate-filled bitter warping of facts to fit her delusions. 

I was there, too. The anti-war effort brought Americans to question the lies that got us into that war, and got kids about to be drafted to say “Not Me!” rather than “Yes, Sir!”

Had that been a justifiable war, had the US actually been threatened, and had the heart, the will, and the moral high ground, the North Vietnamese would have been crushed, as Japan was.  We had none of those things and the Movement brought that out.

Of course, the Bigot Moonraver will find ways to disparage the victory in WWII as well.  If someone here kept calling others “Nigger” or “Spic” or “Honky” the way she calls “Gringo” they’d be banned in a day or two.

Report this

By Sodium-Na, December 19, 2010 at 5:01 pm Link to this comment

For Leo Wong,

This is to let you know that I do share your intelligent assessment of the operative word,“sanctimonious” as it was used by Chalmer Johnson in describing the college students who were demonstrating against the Viet Nam war. You have made it clear that Chalmer Johnson was big enough of a man to admit his error latter on and explicitly wished he was one of the demonestrators.

Thank you,sir,for saying it in an un-offensive manner and for giving the late Chalmer Johnson the decency of a conscientious writer/thinker he so profoundly deserved and certainly was.

Report this

By gerard, December 19, 2010 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment

TaoWalker says: “Instead come together, where you live-and-breathe everyday, in Her aid.  Give your own precious Person-al attention to healing the hurts She has that’re right there before you.  Coalesce into those organic Human communities that are our natural form.”

I absolutely agree with the promise of these statements.  I just keep wanting to delete the “instead” because I see both ways as necessary and do-able. I can see how 131 people standing outside the White House in the snow, and enduring handcuffs to add to their already sufficient soul-pain is also causing people to coalesce into organiz Human communities.”  As usual with me, it’s not either/or; it’s both/and ...

Report this
Leo Wong's avatar

By Leo Wong, December 19, 2010 at 4:04 pm Link to this comment

@ Al Mollitor :  History is always subject to revision.  It can serve to warn, but it disserves when it discourages. Let us add the voice of the late Chalmers Johnson: “I was in those years irritated by campus antiwar protesters, who seemed to me self-indulgent as well as sanctimonious and who had so clearly not done their homework [on the history of communism in East Asia]… As it turned out, however, they understood far better than I did the impulses of a Robert McNamara, a McGeorge Bundy, or a Walt Rostow.  They grasped something essential about the nature of America’s imperial role in the world that I had failed to perceive.  In retrospect, I wish I had stood with the antiwar protest movement.  For all its naïveté and unruliness, it was right and American policy wrong.”

“Sanctimonious.”  Didn’t I hear that word long ago?

Report this

By GW=MCHammered, December 19, 2010 at 3:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bring back our troops and put them where they belong: our southern border, corporate board rooms and in the halls of lobbyists.

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 19, 2010 at 3:56 pm Link to this comment

Al Mollitor:

That is exactly what I am saying.

I was very active in all of the anti-war actvity from the mid-60s through mid-70s:  San Francisco State, Berkeley, the marches and police battles.

The “four dead in Ohio” at Kent State caused a huge ripple effect all through the midwest.  I was teaching at a large state university in Illinois then, spent my nights bailing students out of jail in the Kent State aftermath—strikes, barricades against the National Guard, etc.

As I said, the US invasion and genocide in Vietnam stopped when North Vietnam won.  Period.  Millions of lives destroyed.  Encalculable environmental damage.  Gringo butt royally kicked and they have been taking out their bruised feelings on every other country they can invade since then.

When the gringo economy finally collapses under the weight of its military “budget”, it will be over—maybe.

Or maybe the system you support with your vote will decide to go down in a blaze of ignominy and drag the rest of the planet with it—a heavy metal version of what’s happening anyway.

Hope is just another name for being too chickenshit to act.

Report this

By Al Mollitor, December 19, 2010 at 3:23 pm Link to this comment

Moonraven, your comment is disturbing. Are you saying all those protests, riots and “four dead in Ohio” had no influence at all in our getting out of Viet Nam? That doesn’t give us much ‘hope’ for hastening our withdrawal from our current wars by any means other than simply going broke.

Report this
Orbis Unum's avatar

By Orbis Unum, December 19, 2010 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

Re: Leo Wong, December 19 at 4:41 pm.

You stated: THE book to read is John Jay Chapman’s Practical Agitation http://bit.ly/hfCorR.

Response: The ‘Preface’ to the book you suggest for review is an excellent statement by the author concerning facing ‘TRUTH’ and the failure of reasoning to do so!

Excellent book and suggestion. Thanks!

In support of the aforementioned, one only has to avail themselves of these facts by reading the “4” declarations posted by the SEA at the web link: http://www.scribd.com/rahyah.

We honorably await any actual and provable evidence to prove the premises presented in-particular to the established facts raised with the declaration dealing with the Four Freedoms on pages 13-15 to prove otherwise.

My best to all who post herein, for the purpose of proposing hopeful enlightenment or garnering enlightenment, while proffering Good Will in the interest of seeking Universal Peace with All Walks of Life!

Report this
moonraven's avatar

By moonraven, December 19, 2010 at 1:50 pm Link to this comment

“Back in the day when the Vietnam protests were in motion, there would be thousands protesting all over DC and the MSM would report it.”

True.  I was there.  And folks of the calibre of Norman Mailer wrote about those protests.

They were also a waste of time—the Vietnam War ended when the North Vietnamese won.

And Mailer got a Pulitzer for Armies of the Night.

An Establishment award.

Report this
David J. Cyr's avatar

By David J. Cyr, December 19, 2010 at 12:32 pm Link to this comment

QUOTE (Al Mollitor):

“Of course, if we want to end all these wars overnight, all we need to do is re-institute the draft.”
____________

A return of Selective Service might make the demonstrations a bit larger, and more militant; but Selective Service isn’t really much different from the economic draft that currently exists… in which Democrats are now seeking to preferentially “volunteer” gays and undocumented immigrants.

Selective Service allows Cheney conservatives and Clinton/Obama liberals to select themselves out of “serving” as the meat to be ground up in the wars they both vote for.

For a draft to effectively serve as real war reduction, everyone who votes for a Republican or a Democrat needs to be automatically inducted into the infantry, in the instant that they cast their vote.

Report this

By Al Mollitor, December 19, 2010 at 11:56 am Link to this comment

Of course, if we want to end all these wars overnight, all we need to do is re-institute the draft. As long as there is no potential for self-sacrifice, no skin in the game, we Americans will let this go on for a very long time.

A fiend of mine - who is affluent, conservative and a Bush supporter - started doing research on how to get his sons out of the country as soon as the wars started up, just in case they started drafting kids. I’m surprised he didn’t know better.

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 19, 2010 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

GRYM,

Each of the seven protesters knows full well that they can do this and not be subjected to prison, re-education or death i.e., China, Russia, Iran, Syria, N. Korea and Cuba.

Glad to know what club you consider us to be in and how we can be compared to the other members.

Report this
Leo Wong's avatar

By Leo Wong, December 19, 2010 at 11:41 am Link to this comment

THE book to read is John Jay Chapman’s Practical Agitation http://bit.ly/hfCorR

Report this
Leo Wong's avatar

By Leo Wong, December 19, 2010 at 11:38 am Link to this comment

Allan Krueger, - “When your FASCIST warlords come a calling, you may regret this sarcastic attitude!”

Actually, Go Right Young Man will come a calling for the Fascist warlords.  Read Max Picard’s Hitler in Our Selves, which describes GRYM and his betters and is a warning to our own selves.

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, December 19, 2010 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

Allan Krueger, - “When your FASCIST warlords come a calling, you may regret this sarcastic attitude!”

-

How terrifying.  Perhaps if you repeat that terrifying sentiment again and again seven more people will fall in-line.

Report this

By flickervertigo, December 19, 2010 at 11:23 am Link to this comment

pretty amazing that Go Right Young Man is stupid enough to gloat about how effectively the israeli american press manages the “news”.

of course, he’d be the first to protest that zionist control of the media is non-existent.

*shrug*

Report this
Allan Krueger's avatar

By Allan Krueger, December 19, 2010 at 11:11 am Link to this comment

“Go Right Young Man writes : This is GREAT!  Hedges and Ellsberg show up in Washington with seven other people to showcase their unbending fortitude.

Each of the seven protesters knows full well that they can do this and not be subjected to prison, re-education or death i.e., China, Russia, Iran, Syria, N. Korea and Cuba…”

Ah, a Patriotic NeoCON! When your FASCIST warlords come a calling, you may regret this sarcastic attitude!

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, December 19, 2010 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

Allan Krueger, - “And not a single person watching NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox… will know anything about this!”

-

HURRAH!  Not every unhinged minority opinion shouting to a group of seven like-minded individuals gets its 5 second sound bite on the evening news.

Isn’t America GREAT? smile

Report this
PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, December 19, 2010 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

Back in the day when the Vietnam protests were in motion, there would be thousands protesting all over DC and the MSM would report it.

Report this
Allan Krueger's avatar

By Allan Krueger, December 19, 2010 at 10:41 am Link to this comment

And not a single person watching NBC, CBS, ABC, Fox… will know anything about this!

Instead, they will be watching the drivel concerning the latest poll numbers for the 2012 election - how Obama would do if he was running against Babe (the pig) and learning more about the pimple on Bristol Palin’s ass! Intermixed with commercials for Cialis and the latest Hollywood remake…

FUCK!

Report this

By jerrygates777, December 19, 2010 at 10:34 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

These are good soldiers, not leaving their fellows
behind but speaking out for their outrage to be heard
by those who deny them their voices.

  Americans can understand that Chris Hedges, Daniel
Ellsberg and the many good soldiers who came to man
this civil disobedience are intelligent people, warm hearted and generously giving of their bodies to make
their stand against wars of aggression sold as
liberation of nations, peoples and women.

  Today in Haaretz, A wonderful woman Mrs Aloni
shows that the zionist voices against oppression of
women in Muslim nations make their own wives and
daughters enter in the back door of the bus and sit
by themselves as second class citizens.

  Truth come by such courage and if Chris Hedges
knows anything at all he knows that as American we
have been led into weakness by our complacency.

  Justice and the end of carnage of war comes from
common people with common witness, common values and
common decency. The depositions of these soldiers in
the new front lines tells it like it is, Warm and compassionate human beings give their testaments
against aggression, which they saw first hand, that
hand their own and they feel awful about this now.
How can they not?

  Many years ago prophets cut their hair off, strode
naked in Jerusalem, made icons of resistance to evil
and sewed them into the garment, gave testimony of
what these resistance acts meant to them and yes,
every single act of defiance of militarism,
selfishness and ethic cleansing works it’s magic in
the human genome. No resistance is futile only
complacency shows futility and this is nothing but
laziness and America virtue murdered by a lack of
resistance to shameful aggression.

  Resist. Americans GOP or Democrat, left, right and
center be real people, stand taller than the laziness
and television world of escape and be free, resist
the urge to capitulate in futility and see these icons of resistance as the hairs of you beloved
prophets hearkening to your souls to restore that
which is lost to fealty to despicable pundits on TV
who GET paid to confuse, disorient and mock democracy
of for and by YOU, WE the PEOPLE, It’s not about the
GOP or Democratic party it’s about YOU and what you
can do for this nation in it’s agony.

  Rise up Americans, this is you life, your ideals
you nation and it is not going to fix itself. RESIST!

Report this
Go Right Young Man's avatar

By Go Right Young Man, December 19, 2010 at 9:52 am Link to this comment

I was particularly impressed with the man who had visited the Arny Surplus store the day before this event who said that being arrested was, to him, a spiritual experience.

-

This is GREAT!  Hedges and Ellsberg show up in Washington with seven other people to showcase their unbending fortitude.

Each of the seven protesters knows full well that they can do this and not be subjected to prison, re-education or death i.e., China, Russia, Iran, Syria, N. Korea and Cuba.

Isn’t America GREAT? wink

-

Report this
Leo Wong's avatar

By Leo Wong, December 19, 2010 at 9:50 am Link to this comment

Thank you, Maitri.  If someone could provide a list of the 131 (or 135?) arrested, I should like to see it and preserve as a roll of honor.

Report this
Leefeller's avatar

By Leefeller, December 19, 2010 at 8:23 am Link to this comment

Tao Walker’s comment seems on the money to me.

“So that yet again these psycho-/sociopaths get to enjoy their sadistic game of “keep-away,” toying-with the “self”-deluded “....huddled masses” who remain CONvinced their own worsening troubles will be over if only they can get back a bit of what they once believed foolishly was their “own” little piece-of-the-action.  That just ain’t happenin’, however, here at the DEAD END of their long-time reign-of-terror!”

When the deck is stacked and all you can come up with are a duce high, it may be time to fold them, but there is always the next hand.

What wars,.... congress is celebrating their Christmas what else would one expect, while the world wide give away con still marches on.

Nothing new is happening in DC in fact the entrenched opposite.  Hope and Change seems really a warning? Here on Truth Dig folks are more aware, but possibly alone here on TD’s microcosm planet of reality.

Looking around me in my community, I see apathy? What war?

Report this

By Sodium-Na, December 19, 2010 at 7:11 am Link to this comment

It seems to me that the persistence of Chris Hedges and his honest intent he has expressed in his column after column,every Monday,on TruthDig has proven he has been correct all along in the way he expresses his intent.

His long-term intent has been obvious to me for years: He wrote columns,followed by publishing books based mainly on what he already wrote. What he is doing nowadays is this: He writes columns,followed by calling for a peaceful expression of dissent.

What all that means?

It simply means that he will continue to follow the same course of column writings so that more and more of the 300 million Americans are enlightened by what he writes and start demonstrating against the wars and the 737 military bases scattered across the international boundaries of the globe.

Indeed,the wars and the 737 military bases,in addition of Wall Street’s financial sins,are bankrupting us and bankrupting our children and grandchildren and great grandchildren as well.

Enough wars for heaven sake!

Chris Hedges and all those people who have demonestrated against the wars,at the gates and fences of the White House,on December 16,2010,under the snow and freezing temperature,are the genuine conscience of America.

The date,December 16,2010,is worthy of remembrance,since it may end-up,historically be considered,the effective catalyst for bigger things yet to come.

Thanks to Chris Hedges and thanks to everyone who has responded to his call in expressing their anti-war sentiments in Washington,DC on 12/16/2010. I wished I could do the same.

Report this

By Maitri, December 19, 2010 at 3:22 am Link to this comment

I feel honored to have been a part of this act of civil disobedience.  I was arrested, tightly handcuffed, and placed on the first bus.  I am not a brave person, and I felt a sense of panic come over me by the mere fact of having my hands restrained behind my back.  It made me feel oddly defenseless and vulnerable.  The plastic handcuffs cut into my wrists if I moved my arms or hands and I quickly learned to keep them motionless to avoid the jabs of pain. 
A woman beside me was in a great deal of pain from her tight handcuffs, and had tried to get a police officer on the bus to loosen them slightly, but the officer refused.  Feeling bad for her, I almost forgot my own anxiety and discomfort.  Later, I saw a man whose wrists were black and blue, and who had bloody cuts on his wrists from his tight handcuffs.
I’m afraid I would have been totally miserable and frightened throughout the whole process of being loaded into buses, transported out of town, being made to wait for what seemed forever, forced to sit on cold, wet concrete as we waited to be processed, and either released, or sent to jail.  What transformed the whole experience for me was the courage, dedication and light-heartedness of my fellow protesters.  Medea Benjamin, Coleen Rowley and many others in my group buoyed me up with their humor, songs and jokes. 
I found out that many who had been arrested had traveled a long way for the privilege, and several made the choice to be arrested despite very serious risks to their professional viability and several to their visa status.  This seemingly small act could very well have momentous results in their lives, yet they cheerfully embraced the opportunity and risk.
I paid my way out and arrived back in the city, having been offered a ride others who, like me, had paid their way out.
I felt a pang of guilt that I hadn’t stayed overnight in jail, but family matters made that impossible.  I would do it again, in a heartbeat, not because my anxieties have been overcome, but because they do not matter.  I felt a kind of joy that I had been privileged to bear witness to my beliefs in this way, and I was truly humbled by the experience.  Something tells me this may have been a trial run, for more challenging opportunities to witness that lie ahead.

Report this

By MeHere, December 19, 2010 at 1:15 am Link to this comment

bluewombatb: 

Good report about your solo picketing in downtown LA.  My thanks to you and to
all the activists who gathered at the White House and in other places.

Report this

Page 1 of 2 pages  1 2 >

Newsletter

sign up to get updates


 
 
Right 1, Site wide - BlogAds Premium
 
Right 2, Site wide - Blogads
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 
 
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 

A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion   Publisher, Zuade Kaufman   Editor, Robert Scheer
© 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.