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Israel Is Likely to Attack Iran, CIA Veteran Robert Baer Warns

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Posted on Jul 12, 2011
U.S. Air Force / Staff Sgt. Stephany D. Richards

Robert Baer, the veteran CIA operations officer whose book was the basis for the film “Syriana,” says an Israeli attack on Iran is likely and warns that the U.S. could be drawn into yet another conflict.

Background Briefing with radio host Ian Masters:

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By diamond, July 25, 2011 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

My mistake, I thought you were merely a stooge of Israel but now it seems that you are intellectually challenged on an epic scale.

“Hamas may give free food and religious lessons, win a free election and so on, but the Gazans’ welfare has deteriorated de facto while in the West Bank it has improved, since 2006.”

Are you stupid, or what? Of course their conditions have deteriorated and the same could be said for the Jews the Nazis locked up in the Warsaw Ghetto. Or don’t you know that Israel has locked the Gazans up in a similar ghetto and is practicing collective punishment on them for voting for Hamas by depriving them of food, medicine, fuel and even building materials so they can’t repair the numerous buildings that Israel flattened when it invaded Gaza in 2008. And saying that Hamas can end it any time is like saying someone with two broken legs can run a marathon if THEY REALLY, REALLY WANT TO. I don’t want to believe you’re as big a fool as you make yourself out to be but on the basis of these comments, I might have to. And the West Bank’s situation has improved because Fatah are now Israel’s pet. Yassar Arafat must be laughing his head off somewhere.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 25, 2011 at 1:24 am Link to this comment

Yes, diamond, the facts remain and they show that Israel is a democracy, and Hamas are terrorists, by common definitions and standards. Israel may not live up to your almost utopian ideal, but it is still a democracy, especially considering its extraordinary circumstances (in terms of security threats, isolation, resources etc.) Hamas may give free food and religious lessons, win a free election and so on, but the Gazans’ welfare has deteriorated de facto while in the West Bank it has improved, since 2006 (and yes, Hamas can choose to help end it today). Also, they shoot anti-tank missiles at school buses—that constitutes terrorism for me.

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By radson, July 24, 2011 at 6:55 pm Link to this comment

Who’s supplying what to whom has become an exercise in intrigue to all belligerents involved ,yet the bottom line is that there is money to be made .Whether Israel supplies Iran during
Ollie’s tenure or artillery shells through the German Government or American arms or or or or ,in this ongoing charade ,but the hypocrisy in all of this boils down to simple people being used as hostages in all of this turmoil and quite frankly the International Community -especially the West - is complicit.How all of this will end has been the dominate question ,but the way that ‘things ’ are presently transpiring with the certain veto by Obama in September is definitely not going to alleviate the ugly situation .So what are we to expect an escalation in rhetoric by the belligerents followed by another convenient scapegoat being accused of a cassis belli that amounts to what? another war and then the entire shebang starts all over again.Eventually someone is going to cross the Rubicon or strive for a Bridge too far if you will and then what .How much longer can the Palestinians be
subjected to ’ natural growth ’ and how far East does East Jerusalem actually go ,I do realize that natural growth also encompasses the potential for a plebiscite in the occupied territories ,but probably only amongst one group.The US and Canada have proposed cutting aid to the PA because of the legitimacy question and this will lead to more hardships and
belt-tightening once again suffered by the people especially in the Gulag that has now become the Gaza Strip.Personally I don’t foresee this despicable situation ending until there is a reasonable entente between Iran ,Pakistan India and China -after all money talks and you know the rest.

cheers

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By diamond, July 24, 2011 at 2:54 pm Link to this comment

“radson, Your jokes are cute, but Iran does supply weapons to Hamas.”

And during the Iran-Iraq war, Israel supplied weapons to Iran. This was revealed by an Israeli officer who detailed the circuitous route taken to ship TOW anti-tank missiles to Iran.

“Ari Ben-Manasche, an Israeli military intelligence officer was involved in some of the secret deals and gave details in his memoir called “Profits of War”. In 1983, Ben-Menasche negotiated the sale of 4,000 TOW anti tank missiles to Teheran, he says. The missiles were part of an old stock and their power supply was due to run out in two years’ time. This was followed by more shipments of a similar quantity. The first supply came from NATO stock in Europe, the second came from America but was shipped via Guatamala and Australia. 12,000 TOWS went to Iran between 1983 and 1987. Ben-Menasche believes these weapons completely changed the course of the war. According to this whistle blower, Israel used a slush fund supplied by weapon profits to buy the silence of politicians in the U.S., Britain and Australia. Democrats on the Iran Contra panel also received payments: some of them through the American Israel Public Affairs Committee, (‘The Last Supper’, Willan, P.106).

And the fact is, Israel was involved in the creation of Hamas. Why? Because they want to divide and conquer the Palestinians and to start a civil war, if they can, the way they whipped one up in Lebanon, which went on for years. You saw a glimmer of this after Hamas won the election in Gaza when Fatah attempted to stage some kind of coup and got their backsides kicked all the way back to the West Bank where they now exist as some kind of Israeli client state. The reason Hamas won that election, which the UN has declared to have been free and fair, was that they run extensive ‘social security’ infrastructure which includes health care and unemployment support while Fatah was completely corrupt and ineffective in looking after the welfare of Palestinians. 

Anyone who attempts to defend Israel as a democracy and attack Hamas as ‘terrorists’ is on a hiding to nothing in terms of the facts. And the facts are the facts and will not go away however you attempt to twist and obscure them.

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By ardee, July 23, 2011 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment

Hamas was founded in 1987, an offshoot of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. The military wing was created in 1991. The Hamas which is currently the majority government of Palestine concentrates, like its parent organization, with social welfare and governance.

The Muslim Brotherhood has earned itself onto the enemies list of AlQaeda for this very reason. Perhaps, if Israel ended its bloodthirsty action against the Palestinian refugees it created Hamas might also forego violence instituted by the violence towards its people.

Funny how beating a dog might make it violent. Funny how some here (well one anyway) think continuing to blame the beaten dog is an intellectually honest position.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 23, 2011 at 3:08 pm Link to this comment

radson,
Your jokes are cute, but Iran does supply weapons to Hamas.
Just two examples off a simple google search:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/204990
http://www.jpost.com/MiddleEast/Article.aspx?ID=212317&R=R1

Well, you could dismiss it as a fabricated Israel-American-Egyptian charade since you seem to be a fan of those scenarios.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 23, 2011 at 3:01 pm Link to this comment

If there is not an underlying respect for all human beings regardless of religion or political beliefs you don’t have a democracy however much the appearance of one is maintained and asserted

This is a standard by which utterly no country in the world qualifies as a democracy, and in that sense, all of your examples are of common situations.
In every country there are evictions, whatever the reason. Who’s to say France is not as bad for cracking down on Gypsy squats than Israel for destroying unauthorized Bedouin encampments? Israel is not unique in this issue.
All countries have immigration laws which place a certain filter on who can become a citizen. It’s also worth noting the fact that immigration laws are an indicator of democracy which you just invented, it’s simply irrelevant. A state has no direct responsibilty for someone who is not it’s citizen or current inhabitant, and there’s no UN-mandated Right to Import Spouses.


I disagree with your claim that what I said, in response to the criteria you brought up, is relevant only regarding Jews. All of the criteria are relevant to all citizens of Israel, regardless of ethnicity (but not relevant obviously to Palestinians in the occupied territories or migrant workers etc.), except the issue of “basic human rights”, which as I said is a broad term which has many interpretations.

Regarding Likud: look, not in my worst nightmares did I devolve into defending Jabotinsky. All I’m willing to say is that it’s not my opinion, but a concensus among historians and political scientists, that his political vision of the future Israel (he didn’t live to see it) was a liberal one. Again, there is a huge difference in the interpretation of the term “liberal” between anarcho-socialist infoshops and political historians, but that’s still what Jabotinsky’s classified as. I’m not going to delve into it further.

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By radson, July 23, 2011 at 8:09 am Link to this comment

JP :Apartheid is Racism and conspiracy theory’s are a convenient ‘Benchmark’ of denial .The world didn’t start on the year ‘zero’ after AD and tell the Truthdiggers where the Hamas rockets come from .Is it from Iran ,then they must have one hell of a long Tunnel ?

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By drbhelthi, July 23, 2011 at 7:26 am Link to this comment

“Guarantee of basic Human Rights—this is a pretty vaguely stated criterion, but essentially, basic human rights are respected in Israel just like any other Western country.” johnny pumpkinseed

Right.
Like the USA for example, when senior MOSSAD agents sell illegal scanning machines, developed for the C.I.A. with American taxpayer dollars, back to the U.S. and various state governments. And the ruling oligarchy in the U.S. illegally doses airport travellers with these dangerous machines, refusing to have their dosage strength evaluated by qualified, neutral authority.
A slow form of euthanasia.

Human rights that are theoretically “respected”, but pragmatically denied to
Palestinians - and any genuinely Jewish folk who register disagreement.

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By ardee, July 23, 2011 at 6:54 am Link to this comment

theotherjimmyolson, July 18 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

I’m new here ,but beginning to get the picture. Comments are unmoderated so any turd can log on and bloviate on any subject include hot deals on designer handbags, with out regard to the post they’re responding to? No thanks.

Oh Jimmy, this is what I responded to and I see no first two comments here…..I did note your comments further down (up?) the thread…

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By ardee, July 23, 2011 at 6:47 am Link to this comment

* Guarantee of basic Human Rights—this is a pretty vaguely stated criterion, but essentially, basic human rights are respected in Israel just like any other Western country

This is worthy of The Onion, or the garbage can.

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By diamond, July 22, 2011 at 3:55 pm Link to this comment

You are expressing the Jewish view of Israel, JP, and as such it presents a false and biased view of Israel. Ask those being tossed out of their houses on to the streets in East Jerusalem if they believe they are being treated equally and if their human rights are being respected. Ask those who have had their houses bulldozed. What you claim is only true of Jewish citizens of Israel, but anyone else is fair game and viewed as ‘the other’. Ask the Jews who have married Muslims if they’re allowed to come back and live in Israel. Laws have actually been passed to prevent them doing this. And your view of Jabotinsky as a ‘liberal’ is laughable under the circumstances. How likely is it that a ‘liberal’ would have created the roots of Likud? How likely is it that a ‘liberal’ would have said ‘Let’s create a Jewish army in Palestine so we can carry out ethnic cleansing and steal all the land, businesses and houses’? The historical record proves what Likud is and what it wants and these deeds and aims are not democratic and never have been. You’ve overlooked the fact that you can have all kinds of laws and all kinds of high sounding things in your constitution but if the letter of the law is not respected for political or religious reasons and these things are not enforced or confirmed day to day and year by year then those laws are futile and irrelevant. If there is not an underlying respect for all human beings regardless of religion or political beliefs you don’t have a democracy however much the appearance of one is maintained and asserted.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 21, 2011 at 3:00 pm Link to this comment

diamond,
Regarding the criteria you’ve posted for a functioning democracy, Israel fulfills all of them:

* Guarantee of basic Human Rights—this is a pretty vaguely stated criterion, but essentially, basic human rights are respected in Israel just like any other Western country.

Separation of Powers between the institutions of the state—There is a healthy oversight of the executive branch by the judicial system, one of the best in the world, actually. There is much to improve, however, on the fact that most ministers/cabinet members are Members of the Knesset, which hurts executive/legislative separation. Still, there is sufficient Separation of Powers.

Freedom of opinion, speech, press and mass media—these freedoms are granted to the fullest, to all citizens (up to point where, like anywhere in the world, those who have more money can be heard better). Generally the only restrictions are censorship of issues of security, but they’re more related to freedom of information. There is essentially no censorship on human rights abuse, on the contrary.

Religious liberty—I have no idea why you brought this up. I haven’t heard of any issue of denial of religious freedoms from non-Jews in Israel (toward certain Jewish movements there have been, but definitely not something you can make a case out of).

• General and equal right to vote (one person, one vote)—again, a non-issue. With exception to Palestinians of East Jerusalem, this rule is in effect.

• Good Governance (focus on public interest and absence of corruption)—this is almost totally a matter of opinion, and likewise, Israel is on par with OECD countries.


Actually, you’re generally correct with your statements on the Likud party. Although Jabotinsky did envision a liberal democracy (with Arabs being completely equal to Jews; contrary to your statements), it did involve its imposement on Arab inhabitants by force. He was a wishful thinker and his followers are too, and their policies have been utterly destructive to everyone (except Jewish settlers in the West Bank, but they will get hurt by them ultimately, too). But you are simply wrong on your assessment of the political reality in Israel, which, while definitely headed in the wrong direction, is still a high-functioning democracy by all of the standards you mentioned.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 21, 2011 at 1:52 pm Link to this comment

radson:
I agree with you on the point that some of the Knesset’s recent laws are racist, and I am supportive of Diaspora Jews’ deploring of them (I’m very much against these laws myself). Why did you think I supported them?
Next point—I don’t see how Israel’s handling of the flotilla(s) is racist. Maybe ridiculous, maybe paranoid, but not racist (It’s a word being thrown around quite freely, often without basis). Israel, under all public opinions, has the right to do what it did (stopping a ship trying to enter a restricted zone under its legal control). It’s foolish and counter-productive but it’s still legal, and not racist.
The rest of your post is hypothetical speculation, some of it conspiracy theories. I didn’t see the point you are trying to make.

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By theotherjimmyolson, July 21, 2011 at 8:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

@ ardee, I couldn’t help noticing that you responded to my third comment while ignoring my first two.My first comment came after the thread had already been derailed by an argument over who is evil and who is a saint, and was the last comment germaine to the post. all that followed was off topic and accomplished nothing. How about considering my first proposal?

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By diamond, July 20, 2011 at 4:26 pm Link to this comment

Israel, as I have already noted, is not a democracy.

Democracy - Key Elements

In order to deserve the label modern democracy, a country needs to fulfill some basic requirements - and they need not only be written down in it’s constitution but must be kept up in everyday life by politicians and authorities:

• Guarantee of basic Human Rights to every individual person (not only Jewish persons) vis-à-vis the state and its authorities as well as vis-à-vis any social groups (especially religious institutions) and vis-à-vis other persons.

• Separation of Powers between the institutions of the state:
Government [Executive Power],
Parliament [Legislative Power] and
Courts of Law [Judicative Power]

• Freedom of opinion, speech, press and mass media

• Religious liberty

• General and equal right to vote (one person, one vote)

• Good Governance (focus on public interest and absence of corruption)

The present form of Israel’s governance is certainly not democratic on most of these elements and there’s a very good reason for that. Israel has now been ruled by the Likud party for many years and the roots of the Likud party are anything but democratic.

“Nationalist Zionism originated from the Revisionist Zionists led by Jabotinsky. Jabotinsky was based in Mussolini’s fascist Italy until Hitler demanded his expulsion. The Revisionists left the World Zionist Organization in 1935 because it refused to state that the creation of a Jewish state was an objective of Zionism. The revisionists advocated the formation of a Jewish Army in Palestine to force the Arab population to accept mass Jewish migration. Revisionist Zionism evolved into the Likud Party in Israel, which has dominated most governments since 1977. It advocates Israel maintaining control of the West-Bank and East Jerusalem and takes a hard-line approach in the Israeli-Arab conflict. In 2005 the Likud split over the issue of creation of a Palestinian state on the occupied territories and party members advocating peace talks helped form the Kadima party.”  Wikipedia

How likely is it that such a party would form a democratic government or create a democratic state culture? I would have thought it was most unlikely, and, predictably, under many years of Likud governments Israel has moved further and further to the right and closer and closer to Likud’s anti-democratic, militaristic roots until it more closely resembles Mussolini’s Italy than a modern democracy. Your urge me to ‘imagine’ Howard, but I don’t need to imagine, the facts speak for themselves.

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By PatrickHenry, July 20, 2011 at 4:47 am Link to this comment

JP,

I guess the Goldstone report and the other UN ‘authors’ supposition of Israeli war crimes are wrong and you are right by reading your narrow minded idle banter.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/23/un-panel-israel-war-crimes

Howard,

You never cease to amaze me with your hasbara cheerleading.

I think you are an Israeli tour guide.

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By ardee, July 20, 2011 at 4:43 am Link to this comment

theotherjimmyolson, July 18 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment


I’m new here ,but beginning to get the picture. Comments are unmoderated so any turd can log on and bloviate on any subject

Yup, just as you yourself just did.

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By drbhelthi, July 20, 2011 at 1:27 am Link to this comment

“When Israel is given three billion dollars a year for free for its security needs when in fact they have become the forth military power on the planet is actually peanuts isn’t it, so what is the US actually transferring, well its actually simple, its the advanced technology -Bibi says we want\need twenty F -35 ‘s ,the US Congress says ‘you got it’,- - “

How very accurate.
When GHWBushSr set up Sadaam Hussein in Kuwait, he was simply using a several-thousand-yrs old tactic of the “Israelis”.  This same tactic is used repeatedly by the Zionists-types, similar to the tactics of 3-yr olds who intimidate their parents.  Look how well it continues to work for the Israeli-Zionist tail that wags the U.S. and Euro dog. 

It is genuinely regrettable that “Howard-types” continue to puke forth their clap-trap, which supports the Israeli-Zionist tail that wags the dog, bankrupting the world treasury.  This, while the Rockefeller-Rothschild, tax-exempt foundations instruct their puppet “Barack H. Obama” to force euthanasia on the elderly, genuine citizens, of the United States of America.  The Americans who made it great, up til the end of WWII, when the NAZIs began to overtake US Government.
Sad - -
Sad.

Perhaps even worse, uninformed, naïve´people believe the “clap-trap,” and the song of the “oh, help, help, I am under threat types” continues- since the Holocaust- making the rest of the world responsible for the evil of the Hitler Society, while punishing 90-yr-old Demjanjuk-corporal-types, instead of the NAZI majors, colonels and generals who ordered them to murder. Such trash, social behavior, while approximately 3 billion dollars, annually, from the US Treasury, is dumped into the cash register of “Israel”, assisting Israeli-Zionists to undermine the goose that laid the golden egg.
http://www.truthaboutwar.org/1brutal.shtml

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By Howard, July 19, 2011 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

4 CHEERS for Israel.  A country the size of a postage stamp. Only democracy and modern country in Mid-East.  A beacon for all other countries.
  Attacked time and again over the decades by arab countries who after defeat after defeat refuse yet to make peace. Jordan had the west bank for over 18 years in its posession. Never a word from them during that time or by any arabs to give it to the Pal’s. After all they already have 22 arab countries.
  Everyone blames Israel for all tornados and floods and disease all over the world.
 
And now comes this disgraced ex-cia worker who has the inside word, mind you, that he Knows, that Israel is going to attack Iran. Such claptrap.  Despite Iran threatening to extirmanate Israel. On more than one occurance.  Imagine !

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By radson, July 18, 2011 at 6:04 pm Link to this comment

Johnnypumkinseed:Wow ! Your probably not an apologist but an intentionally misinformed and mislead supporter of Israel . There are many Diaspora Jews that are questioning the
wisdom or lack thereof of the Knesset with the ‘continuation’ of the Racist policies .Now you may consider them to be ’ measured’ ,but Racist is what they are ,not only the leading factions within Israel but within the USA and Europe as well are part of this racism,this has been clearly demonstrated for years now ,but in the last decade it has become blatant;the Gaza II Flotilla is but
the latest example.Did you ever think that if the Gazans ,were to pack-up and leave ,that the Israeli Government would actually let them ?Did you ever wonder why the great Jewish
Friend that is called Egypt still allows along with Jewish collusion the ‘Tunnel Systems’ ,which turns out on your TV to be delivering Rockets to the besieged Gazans and therefore foments further hostilities?What about the UN Resolution 242 which in essence is still being discussed after forty odd years which has become a charade of terminology and euphemisms buttressed with Roadmaps and Quartets ;is there perhaps an intentional continuation of this conundrum .How about the security corporations that have infiltrated every Western airport ,tell how many of these are Jewish and where did they acquire their expertise . When Israel is given three billion dollars a year for free for its security needs when in fact they have become the forth military power on the planet is actually peanuts isn’t it ,so what is the US actually transferring ,well its actually simple ,its the advanced technology -Bibi says we want\need twenty F -35 ‘s ,the US Congress says ‘you got it’ ,mind you after a ten to fifteen year time frame ,because Lockheed-Martin is not that stupid.Now whether
Zionist Zealots are going to attack Iran is going to depend on how Globalization is progressing ,especially with regards to Russia and China ,now both Russia and China have acquiesced to UN security council resolution 1973 ,therefore the likely hood at present is rather diminished ,nevertheless its going to ultimately depend on what is decided in Switzerland and the Global Central Banks.

cheers

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By drbhelthi, July 18, 2011 at 2:06 pm Link to this comment

” - - says an Israeli attack on Iran is likely and warns that the U.S. could be drawn into yet another conflict.”

Conflict?
Wrong-O.
A CIA “expert” made a statement to this nature ???

Russia and China have interests in Iran. The surest way to “invoke” a
solution from “outsiders” to what zionists consider to be a problem with
Palestine, would be to attack Iran. The zionists´ problem would receive a
solution, in the geographical area of “Israel”.

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By theotherjimmyolson, July 18, 2011 at 1:32 pm Link to this comment

I’m new here ,but beginning to get the picture. Comments are unmoderated so any turd can log on and bloviate on any subject include hot deals on designer handbags, with out regard to the post they’re responding to? No thanks.

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By ardee, July 18, 2011 at 3:35 am Link to this comment

Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 17 at 2:29 pm
\
Not one word in honor of the thousands of dead children ( Hamas supporters I guess if they had lived) murdered by the Israeli armies. The silence in your posts speak volumes, and far more eruditely than your actual words in fact.

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By THX 1133 is not in the movie..., July 18, 2011 at 2:28 am Link to this comment

By diamond, July 17 at 7:45 pm

==========================
Howard is a long term poster/troll/sock here. Likely
one of those “plants” by the NSA/CIA/Who knows.
This one generally enjoys your posts because for the
most part your POV is in line with this ones
observations.
The one major theme running here on TD is the
apparent attempt by all concerned (posters) to change
minds.
It’s not gonna happen! It really makes this one
question what on earth is going through the minds of
the posters here: Do ya’ll really think you’re going
to get an adversary to “see-the-light?
This one posts an opinion; take it or leave it; and
this one refuses to argue and waste even more
electrons. Cheers.

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By diamond, July 17, 2011 at 7:45 pm Link to this comment

“Accurate comments and facts that are well said.  and explained !”

By ‘explained’ I assume you mean JP’s complete failure to prove that the actions of the IDF and the SS do not run on parallel tracks and lead to the same atrocities? His comments are not ‘accurate’: I think the word you need is ‘propaganda’. Propaganda always ignores historical facts and defends egregious violations of the rule of law and that’s exactly what our boy Johnny is all about. He doesn’t seem to understand, and neither do you, that you can’t go on claiming to be the victim when you’re an eight hundred pound gorilla with hundreds of nuclear warheads, cluster bombs, attack helicopters, jet fighters and phosphorous bombs at your disposal, which you use on unarmed civilians trapped in a ghetto. The term ‘shooting fish in a barrel’ comes to mind.

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By Howard, July 17, 2011 at 6:16 pm Link to this comment

Right on Johnny Pumpkinseed !

Accurate comments and facts that are well said.  and explained !

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By prosefights, July 17, 2011 at 3:58 pm Link to this comment

Deaton’s uninvited letter will not be opened until we deem it time to open.

Refusal of Deaton’s certified letter was an option.

But we decided to accept in hope that Deaton has the intelligence to see merits of peaceful settlement before matters get far worse.

‘Far worse’ may include WWIII if CIA Veteran Robert Baer is correct?


http://www.prosefights.org/pnmrate/pnmrate.htm#deaton

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By diamond, July 17, 2011 at 2:43 pm Link to this comment

“The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is a matter of two peoples fighting over a piece of land. The Holocaust is a deliberate, unprovoked annihilation of one people (plus a few other, much smaller groups) by another. To try and isolate two disconnected incidents in these conflicts, and by absurd induction form a moral equation of those conflicts, is false logic, and unfair to the victims.”

Two peoples fighting over a piece of land? Is that so? Well I would just like to remind you of some facts. There is no moral equivalence between what Israel has done to the Palestinians and what the Palestinians have done to the Israelis. None at all. The Palestinians have never had an army and still don’t. Furthermore, they don’t have a navy or an air force and they don’t have the biggest bully in the world, America, standing behind them arming them and ready to veto any vote against any immoral and inhuman activities in the United Nations as Israel does. The Palestinians are among the poorest people in the world and they are fighting with the equivalent of bows and arrows against a nuclear armed state.

There is also the fact (an undeniable fact of history) that the Palestinians were minding their own business when the catastrophe befell them. Much as a person walking down the street who is overpowered and mugged, meaning beaten up and robbed, is not to blame for their misfortune. And the Palestinians were beaten up and robbed and continue to be, in an ongoing and illegal plan to steal what remains of their land, houses and businesses.

Of course the holocaust was ‘a deliberate unprovoked annihilation of a people’ but so is everything that Israel has done to the Palestinians since the forties. Just in case you’ve forgotten, it was European Christians who planned and carried out the holocaust not Muslims and not Palestinians. And if you think that what the IDF did in Gaza in 2008 bears no resemblance to the concept of Blitzkrieg used so successfully by Adolf Hitler then it can only be because you can’t see out of your one eye. The one that only sees anything that’s done in retaliation to Israel but not the hideous crimes of the State of Israel which provoked the retaliation in the first place. I have no hesitation in comparing the states you’ve mentioned to the Nazis. If you want to know the reality of American history, for example, just google ‘American Military Interventions’ and you’ll know why. A fascist, is a fascist, is a fascist to misquote Gertrude Stein.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 17, 2011 at 2:29 pm Link to this comment

ardee, this is the fundamental difference:
Hamas fires rockets, mortal shells and recently, advanced anti-tank missiles at civilian populations intentionally, deliberately them injury or death. The fact that their technology of murder is not yet effective to their liking, is merely a nuisance to them! How can you possibly consider the persistent targeting of civilians “negligible” (your words)?

I don’t think Hamas, on the scale of Evil in Islam’s Name, to be on Al-Qaeda level, but rather Hezbollah/Iran level. That is, terrorizing civilian populations to influence their political leadership, while manipulating mass media to create spectacles of victimhood to influence naive news consumers around the world. They do feed the homeless, but after that they brainwash their children with racist ultra-religious hatred, lie to reporters, and then try to kill a few Zionist children before bedtime (Oh, but they’re not that good at it, so it’s OK),

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By ardee, July 17, 2011 at 1:58 pm Link to this comment

ardee, I’m not a troll or a right-wing apologist. I’m calling out the tragic misconceptions of Israel that have sadly permeated among my ideological peers.

No, Mr. Pumpkinseed, though I believe you may think yourself as such. What you are, in fact, is a heartless troll who finds it convenient to ignore the homicidal actions of the IDF towards innocents, and has done so for decades.

Your crap about Hamas firing rockets from crowded neighborhoods ignores the realities of Israel dropping bombs and firing rockets and tank artillery into crowded neighborhoods. The Katushkya rockets available to Hamas haven’t the range of ,well, of spitting a pumkinseed. The damage done to Israel and Israelis from those antiquated and inaccurate rockets is negligible at best and the resulting responses overwhelmingly heartless and cruel.

Further, Hamas may be seen by you as a terrorist group along the lines of AlQaeda and the Taliban or whomever, but many think them fighting to gain both recognition and a state for their brethren. Further, it remains the fact that it is Israel that began this ‘megillah’ by ousting, and quite illegally at that, three quarters of a million Arabs from their homes and farms. The one is a militant group, part of a stateless mass, now engaging in politics and the other a legally constituted state with responsibilities to international law.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 17, 2011 at 1:27 pm Link to this comment

PatrickHenry,

The article you posted mentions 3 counts on which the author supposes Israel violated international law. In response:

1. The “few militants” he’s casually mentioning by the way, are all either part of Hamas (which was elected by the majority of Gazans), or sponsored by it (if they’re Pal. Islamic Jihad). Basically, the elected government of Gaza is attacking Israel’s citizens. So this cannot be categorized as “collective punishment”, which is what the author is insinuating. The world is waiting for the military genius who will come up with a strategy that discriminates between voting blocs.

2. The author conventiently omits the little detail that Hamas operates out of densely populated areas. There are numerous pieces of evidence on YouTube and other websites of Hamas’s habit of launching rockets from and placing IEDs in schoolyards, and then firing on IDF forces from mosque minarets.  It has been and still is Hamas’s choice, for reasons of tactical effectiveness and enhanced PR due to its self-victimization techniques, to fight inside highly populated zones.

3. “Disproportionate military response”: This has been totally disproved after the Operation (that article was published during Cast Lead). Namely that nobody disputes the fact anymore (including Hamas) that at least as many Hamas militants were killed as civilians. According to more credible sources, the ratio is between 4 militants to 3 civilians and 2 to 1. That is unheard of in conlicts such as these, when a regular army fights a guerilla inside a city. The ratios in Iraq and Afghanistan are between 5 and 20 civilians to 1 militant.
“Proportion” is on the bottom line a matter of opinion. Although the facts still show that Israel, compared with statistics of similar situations, has shown much more restraint than other states.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 17, 2011 at 12:43 pm Link to this comment

posted by diamond:

Military strategists in the IDF actually openly compared their plan for Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto, saying they might have to borrow the Nazis’ ideas to accomplish their takeover of Gaza

Really? I find that very hard to believe. But if you can back it up with a reference, some quote or a name, then I’d like to be surprised.

Israel’s attack on Gaza in 2008 was straight out of the Nazi handbook and their treatment of Arabs who live in Israel is straight out of the Apartheid handbook.

Out of the Nazi handbook? You mean the one with gas chambers, Einsatzgruppen, mass graves, state-sponsored biological racism, dictator idolatry and megalomania? Err, can’t be that one.
Oh, maybe you mean that Warsaw Ghetto from where Jews launched mortar bombs at German cities, blew up German civilian buses, denounced Germany’s right to exist and were backed up financially and logistically by the Soviet Union and the US. Damn, can’t be that one either.

The US, UK and Russia have used far more aggressive tactics and killed many more civilians (by any measure) in their wars in Afghanistan, Iraq, Georgia and Chechnya. That’s puzzling, because I’ve yet to see any of them compared to the Nazis anywhere near as much as Israel, not to mention have a BDS campaign against them (LOL!). Why? Because it’s much more convenient obsessing over a tiny country than picking on big bullies (even harder when you’re a citizen of one!). Oh, and isn’t that so poetic, how the Jews are the new Nazis?

So to sum up, you’ve found a single parameter from which one can compare the Israeli policy towards Gaza, which is an entity run by a terrorist organization openly at war with it (not to mention elected by the majority of its population!), to the Nazi policy towards the Warsaw ghetto, which was a sadistic imprisonment and eventual murder of a completely passive population, born out of pure racism. Right on, dude.
The Palestinian-Israeli conflict is a matter of two peoples fighting over a piece of land. The Holocaust is a deliberate, unprovoked annihilation of one people (plus a few other, much smaller groups) by another. To try and isolate two disconnected incidents in these conflicts, and by absurd induction form a moral equation of those conflicts, is false logic, and unfair to the victims.

ardee, I’m not a troll or a right-wing apologist. I’m calling out the tragic misconceptions of Israel that have sadly permeated among my ideological peers.

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By Howard, July 17, 2011 at 9:40 am Link to this comment

The only heinous acts have been AGAINST Israel.  For over 60 years since the 5 arab nations attacked Israel in its rebirth and swore off accepting the partition plan, they have refused to recognize or accept Israel and just kept restarting wars against Israel.

And that is to the detriment of the Pal’s who these countries treat like pawns in their attempts to confuse their own citizens. These countries do not want the Pal’s to have their own state.  Would show them up too much.

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By ardee, July 17, 2011 at 6:35 am Link to this comment

diamond, July 16 at 3:49 pm

A well posed response to a miserable apologist for heinous Israeli acts and such a disorganized thinker. The historical record is clear as clear as Johhny’s is muddled.

The sad truth, however, is that fact and appeals to humanity go unremarked upon , are never acted upon. whether here at home or elsewhere.

Sometimes I think that TruthDig may have been close to some epiphany or other to so suddenly find so many trolls and right wing apologists suddenly appearing here.

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By prosefights, July 16, 2011 at 4:46 pm Link to this comment

August 10, 1994 Plaintiff’s lawyer Stephen D. Aarons finally files MOTION to reconsider protective order.

Aarons writes:

1 Whether by inadvertence, the press of federal caseloads, or design, the court suggested at a pretrial conference in May 1993 [Deaton], that both parties suspend further discovery until it ruled on defendants’ summary judgment motion. Discovery has ceased ever since.

2 Nearly one year ago, on August 19, 1993, the court issued its amended protective order, effectively sealing all substantive pleadings in this case.

3 Before issuing that order, the court considered plaintiff’s written response against sealing. Judge Conway informed all counsel in open court that James R. Gosler would be permitted to deliver unknown documents to Judge Conway at time and place certain.

4 Judge Conway apparently reviewed those documents in camera without counsel for plaintiff.

5 The communication with Gosler constitutes an improper, ex parte communication with the one defendant who has been charged in plaintiff’s amended complaint with the most outrageous and culpable acts.

6 Given the nature of this lawsuit, where defendants allege some sort of security infraction by plaintiff as justification for his firing, such communication under the guise of national security violated plaintiff’s due process rights. Plaintiff has been prejudiced by this improper communication coupled with protracted delays. ...

WHEREFORE Plaintiff William H. Payne requests that:

A Judge Conway recuse himself from further participation in these proceeding, based on improper communication with defendant Gosler,

B The newly designated judge reconsider the standing protective order without recourse to ex parte communications with a named defendant, or in the alternative, allow counsel for plaintiff to review and respond to such communications, and,

C The court deny defendants’ long-standing motion for summary judgment, set new discovery deadlines under the circumstances, and grant such further relief as justice requires.

Aarons Law Firm
Counsel for Plaintiff


Case sealed not to disclose information about the ‘covert channel’. 

The channel apparently was used to send Ali Vakili Rad to prison for life in France.

Rad, one of the apparent executioners of Shapour Bakhtiar, was released from prison in France this year.

Nojeh Coup

In July 1980, Zbigniew Brzezinski of the United States met Jordan’s King Hussein in Amman to discuss detailed plans for Saddam Hussein to sponsor a coup in Iran against Khomeini. King Hussein was Saddam’s closest confidant in the Arab world, and served as an intermediary during the planning. The Iraqi invasion of Iran would be launched under the pretext of a call for aid from Iranian loyalist officers plotting their own uprising on July 9, 1980 (codenamed Nojeh, after Shahrokhi/Nojeh air base in Hamedan). The Iranian officers were organized by Shapour Bakhtiar, who had fled to France when Khomeini seized power, but was operating from Baghdad and Sulimaniyah at the time of Brzezinski’s meeting with Hussein. However, Khomeini LINK learned of the Nojeh Coup plan from Soviet agents in France and Latin America. Shortly after Brzezinski’s meeting with Hussein, the President of Iran, Abolhassan Bani-Sadr quietly rounded up 600 of the loyalist plotters within Iran, putting an effective end to the Nojeh Coup. Saddam decided to invade without the Iranian officers’ assistance, beginning the Iran-Iraq war on 22 September 1980.

http://www.prosefights.org/pnmrate/pnmrate.htm#deaton

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By PatrickHenry, July 16, 2011 at 4:36 pm Link to this comment

JP,

Israel IS TO BLAME for human rights abuses and violations of international law, in regards to its ongoing occupation of Palestine. However, these violations DO NOT constitute war crimes, not even close.

Not true.  Violation of international law such as the Geneva conventions IS war crime.

http://www.thenation.com/article/israels-war-crimes

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By diamond, July 16, 2011 at 3:49 pm Link to this comment

“Your comparisons of the occupation to Nazi Germany and the Holocaust is despicable, exemplifies a cheap rhetoric ploy and demonstrates your ignorance in the history of both of those subjects.”

Military strategists in the IDF actually openly compared their plan for Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto, saying they might have to borrow the Nazis’ ideas to accomplish their takeover of Gaza. And if you can’t see the obvious similarity in the sealing up of a people into a ghetto where the amount of food,  medicine and fuel they receive is controlled by their persecutors then you’re just not trying.

Israel’s attack on Gaza in 2008 was straight out of the Nazi handbook and their treatment of Arabs who live in Israel is straight out of the Apartheid handbook. By definition a state that is a religious state which only grants full citizenship and protection before the law to those who share the state religion cannot accurately be called a democracy simply because it holds elections. They held elections in Syria too and in Zimbabwe: that doesn’t make them democracies in any sense of the word.

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By gerard, July 16, 2011 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment

An unknown large number of “conservatives” in this country actually believe that Israel (“the Holy Land”) will be the pre-ordained site of the mythical Armageddon. These people are able to disbelieve facts in favor of (more or less violent) Biblical foreign policies.
  An unknown large number of “assorted others” here and around the world believe that Israel is the victim of its own historically based fear of persecution/extinction, which has caused a unique
aggressive-defensive mind-set difficult for others to deal with. These same “others” refuse to share responsibility for their part in past persecutions, which refusal compounds difficulties. 
  Another unknown large number of “others” carry a different historically based fear of changes occurring that threaten or destroy their ancient “sacred” beliefs.
  A huge number among all of the above have no experience (and hence no faith) in peace-making, no education to support peaceful coexistence, and no basic understanding that there are manyi possible nonviolent alternatives that could be the answer to war and destruction. Most of these people are more or less afraid of the unknown future. 
  Yet at the same time millions (in the Middle East and elsewhere) are convinced from the evidence that more violence will not help anybody. They are trying to find new ways to work together in order to stay alive and preserve human rights.
  We are on the doorstep of possible “peaceful tomorrows”.
  Where does Truthdig stand, on a scale of 1 to 10?

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By prosefights, July 16, 2011 at 12:01 pm Link to this comment

Certified return receipt requested letter arrived from former [1992] federal magistrate judge William Deaton on Saturday July 16, 2011. 

Deaton is now Independent Review Officer for City of Albuquerque.

Mr Deaton was given a copy of Swiss Radio International Hans Buehler mp3 radio programs in 1995.

10/6/95 [890076] NOTE: THIS ENTIRE CASE IS SEALED. Terminated on the Merits after Submission Without Oral Hearing; Judgment Affirmed; Written, Signed, Unpublished. Moore, authoring judge; Barrett; Weis. [94-2205]

http://www.prosefights.org/pnmrate/pnmrate.htm#deaton

We want our stolen $22,036 back and out of these incompetent government messes.

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By theotherjimmyolson, July 16, 2011 at 10:29 am Link to this comment

As usual the Isreal Palestine conundrum devolves once again into your the villain, no, your the villain absurdities. The subject of the article was the possibility of an attack on Iran, if your going to talk about reading comprehension, start there and respond that subject.Please don’t waste every ones time on an emotional issue that is beside the point.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 16, 2011 at 3:18 am Link to this comment

MeHere:
I agree with you! Except on one point: the discussion started as an arguement over Israel’s wars with neighboring nations, and the refugee problem is what has been dragged in. Not the other way around! Read carefully from the bottom up and see what I mean.

ardee:
If reading comprehension is a skill you missed in school, let me clear it up for you: I’m not excusing Israel of any blame. Israel IS TO BLAME for human rights abuses and violations of international law, in regards to its ongoing occupation of Palestine. However, these violations DO NOT constitute war crimes, not even close.
Your mentioning of embargos is historically irrelevant, as it is a fairly recent phoenomenon (since the Disengagement of 2005), when Gaza turned into a rocket- and mortar-launching base against Israeli civilians in the vicinity (inside Israel’s internationally recognized borders). The embargo of food and medicine is wrong, I agree, but the fact that Israel wants some control over it is understandable, to prevent the import of weapons.

Your comparisons of the occupation to Nazi Germany and the Holocaust is despicable, exemplifies a cheap rhetoric ploy and demonstrates your ignorance in the history of both of those subjects.

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By Howard, July 15, 2011 at 8:46 pm Link to this comment

Utter claptrap.  Israel has been attacked in multiple wars and has defended itself successfully !

If the 4 arab countries that attacked Israel in 1948 and again since then,  would make peacewth Israel they would have gotten to their current ‘spring’ much quicker.  They now have wasted 60 years since they have yet to recognize Israel.

Israel is a modern, democratic, country.  Vibrant in all respects.  Amazing the mirace country they have produced.

4 cheers for Israel.

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By MeHere, July 15, 2011 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

Johnny P:

It is not useful to drag the behavior of every other Arab nation into the discussion
of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Think about it: the problem is what has
happened in Israel since its founding. They have created a nightmare for
themselves by cultivating their own illusion of democracy while dismissing the
rights of those who live in the same land. This has brought despair and hostility
on the part of the oppressed as well as an unavoidable reaction from neighboring
countries and the rest of the world. It is also helpful to keep in mind that besides wars, Israel has been engaged in conducting violent and extensive covert operations outside its borders in order to destabilize governments and eliminate leaders.

Israel lives in a permanent state of war because of the path it has chosen to pursue.

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By ardee, July 15, 2011 at 5:30 pm Link to this comment

Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 15 at 5:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ardee, what “ousting” are you talking about? 1948?

Are you actually trying to convince me that you are unaware of the three quarters of a million Arabs thrown out of the new state of Israel? Yes 1948. But the slaughter and abuses of those homeless descendants continues unabated ever since, the embargoes on medicines and foodstuffs for the slightest provocation from jobless, homeless and dirt poor refugees from Israel’s own private holocaust.

Are you saying the wars since then are the result of a “provocation” (a baffling, inappropriate term in this context) made by Israel in 1948? That is ludicrous. The Palestinian refugees in Arab countries have been held hostage politically and ideologically by their host states from the moment of their flight.

Oh I begin to see your argument. It is the Arab states that are responsible for the theft of homes and farms without the slightest reparation is it? I think you forgot that Jordan actually took in and made citizens hundreds of thousands of those early refugees. But Jordan’s humane actions is not the point. That, I fear, rests exclusively atop your pointy little head. Sorry but apologies for the type of cruelty exhibited by the state of Israel is inexcusable to every decent human being. Guess youre in the other camp.

I’m not trying to excuse Israel of any blame, but merely refuting the claim that was made here, stating “Israel started all of the wars since 1967”, which is downright false.

Oh but that is exactly what you ARE trying to do, and wasting you time, my time and everyone’s time in the attempt.

The point is that Israel has behaved, and continues to behave, like a second rate Nazi Germany , shooting live ammo into crowds of rock throwing children, firing missiles into crowded apartment buildings, assassinating an Hamas leader by dropping a pair of five hundred pound bombs into an occupies apartment complex, killing that worthy , his daughters , wife and neighbors in the process.

Israel is, by any standards, operating in violation of international law, as does its staunchest ally, the USA as well. Perhaps if the new nation had embraced those Arabs living within the new borders, made them citizens in fact, its neighbors would not have had cause to attack it.

But then an apologist for such cruelty as yourself would have had to find a new cause to adopt, or spend his time pulling wings off flies.

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By diamond, July 15, 2011 at 4:35 pm Link to this comment

Israel could only be attacking Iran for domestic political reasons. Israel has hundreds of nuclear war heads, as well as lots of plutonium for making bombs and has also separated quantities of tritium and lithium 6 which are the reagents used to created massive thermonuclear devices (‘Uranium’ by Tom Zoellner). As a British journalist pointed out, none of these weapons has any ‘sensible battlefield application’ and are only useful for flattening cities. Oppenheimer, Father of the Atomic Bomb, referred to those with nuclear weapons as ‘scorpions in a bottle, only able to kill at the risk of their own life.’ Israel’s dirty little secret is that it is a nuclear armed regional superpower which cannot be attacked by anyone. So why attack Iran? You’d have to ask Mossad.

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By theotherjimmyolson, July 15, 2011 at 3:29 pm Link to this comment

Think outside the box.

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By theotherjimmyolson, July 15, 2011 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The simple solution to the possibility of an Attack on Iran is for the U.S. and Iran to sign a mutual defense agreement. Then we shall see who attacks Iran. Simple no?

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 15, 2011 at 5:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

ardee, what “ousting” are you talking about? 1948? Are you saying the wars since then are the result of a “provocation” (a baffling, inappropriate term in this context) made by Israel in 1948? That is ludicrous. The Palestinian refugees in Arab countries have been held hostage politically and ideologically by their host states from the moment of their flight. Claiming that the Arab despots were some kind of crusaders, if I understand you correctly, trying to return the refugees to their homes by invading Israel, is possibly the saddest joke I’ve seen on the web.
I’m not trying to excuse Israel of any blame, but merely refuting the claim that was made here, stating “Israel started all of the wars since 1967”, which is downright false. However, were you to say to a Palestinian refugee that the Arab nations tried to liberate his home by attacking Israel (in 1967/73), he’d either laugh or slap you.

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By Roger Lafontaine, July 15, 2011 at 4:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Israel is like the child that can’t help playing with fire because it loves to see what happens when things go up in flames. The US (daddy) doesn’t dare tell it to stop because mummy (Jewish vote) goes berserk when he tells it to stop.

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By ardee, July 15, 2011 at 3:07 am Link to this comment

Pretty much all of the other conflicts were basically wars of attrition, of which the start and end points are much more debatable. Still the case cannot possibly be made that Israel “started all of the wars” since 1967.

Well, ousting three quarters of a million people from their homes and farms is not considered “provocation” by old Johnny, it is by me, and ,apparently, by Israel’s neighbors. Israel has spent over five decades persecuting the homeless people that they, themselves, created, so excuse me if I am not overwhelmed by your apologetic attempt to excuse Israel from any blame.

Iran has a standing army of one million I believe. Not easy to attack such I think. I trust it is all bluff and bluster designed to distract us all from our own very real problems here at home.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 15, 2011 at 2:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

OK, so? That still undermines your claim of Israel being the constant aggressor, and I’m not being apologetic. Sane people, when faced with the facts, realize that any Arab despot in the 20th century has commited worse crimes against his own people and his enemies’ than all of the Israeli governments combined. The Arab nations surrounding Israel have exploited the Palestinian refugees in their territory so cynically, it brings the word “tragicomic” to mind.
Yes, Israel is far from perfect. Yes, the occupation is brutal and shameful, and our leaders’ lack of balls and brains to end it is pathetic at best. Still, none of them are war criminals, as ignorant critics of Israel like to portray. The real criminals are in Damascus, Tripoli, Beirut (Nasrallah),  etc. (not to mention Pyongyang, Khartoum, Harare or Kinshasa, but those are very easy to ignore).

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By Methusalem, July 15, 2011 at 1:07 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Most of you guys have never been to the Middle East, and I don’t think you had the privilege to know Middle Easterners, or their mentality. So, how is it possible to give judgment over something you have no clue about? Let the Israelis deal with the devil they know, it’s none of your business!

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, July 14, 2011 at 4:02 pm Link to this comment

Johnny Pumpkinseed,

Yes I agree, for face value Israel was attacked, but I think it was more an attempt to retake captured land than an actual attempt to ‘wipe out Israel’ as alot of Israel apoligists decry.

http://www.uvm.edu/~fgause/1973_war.htm

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By dsmit, July 14, 2011 at 3:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I watched a neocon zionist on C-Spann tell the audience that boycotts are essential to bring Iran down. Of course, he didn’t mention this meant no medicine would reach Iranian citizens and would result in the deaths of thousands of innocents.

The neocon then went on to tell us, “Well there is no real evidence that Iran is actually building a nuclear weapon, but we still need to bomb their reactors.” Huh? How bogus is this argument? There is no evidence that Iran is trying to build a nuclear bomb…but we need to boycott the country and bomb there peaceful nuclear plants.

And the US sits by and applauds such crazy logic.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 13, 2011 at 11:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

PatrickHenry, I believe you’re the one who’s erring. The 1973 war began in a coordinated attack by Syria and Egypt at 14:00 October 6th. It’s actually considered an historic failure of the military-political establishments in Israel to foresee this attack.
The Second Lebanon War was started by Hezbollah, when they attacked a border patrol, killing 7 and kidnapping a corpse and another severely wounded soldier (both were thought to be alive still years later).
Pretty much all of the other conflicts were basically wars of attrition, of which the start and end points are much more debatable. Still the case cannot possibly be made that Israel “started all of the wars” since 1967.

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By PatrickHenry, July 13, 2011 at 7:06 pm Link to this comment

Peter Knopfler

Better check you history books as Israel started the 67’ war and every war since then.  A pre-emptive attack is not defense and the Arabs did not start them.

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Peter Knopfler's avatar

By Peter Knopfler, July 13, 2011 at 4:53 pm Link to this comment

Look back at the track record of Israel, only 62
years to examine. 1948, attacked by 5 Arab countries,
every six years a conflict started, 1967 Again 4-5
Arab countries attack Israel, get their butt kicked.
and again the rockets fly into Israel,more wars every
six years.THE WORLD SAYS NOTHING.
Israel knows the secret, They can attack Iran and no
one will do anything, lots of screams & talking but
nothing will be done, USA will take OUT,
Pakistan and Syria while Israel takes out Iran. Very
simple.
SLAM DUNK BABY!
Past=present=future all happens at Once!
Everyone else Europe Russia Communist China will do
nothing.
Reasons why??? that is for another program thanks.

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By tman, July 13, 2011 at 4:49 pm Link to this comment

If Israel attacks Iran that will be their last war. They will finally be wiped out once and for all.

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By Johnny Pumpkinseed, July 13, 2011 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t know how much people are aware of this outside of Israel: the recently replaced Head of Mossad had caused a huge controversy after stepping down, when he warned through the media of Netanyahu’s and Barak’s intention to attack Iran, specifically around September, to divert the world’s attention from the expected Palestinian uprising. The word is out also that their intended appointment to IDF Chief of Staff (General Gallant) was selected due to his enthusiasm to attack Iran (that appointment was thwarted do to an exaggerated real-estate scandal, fortunately).
FYI.

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By gerard, July 13, 2011 at 11:28 am Link to this comment

How much of this is pro-war scare tactics?  Just to keep people so transfixed with anticipating horrors that they can’t think straight and will remain easy to manipulate?

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By SarcastiCanuck, July 13, 2011 at 10:13 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Robert Baer is usually a very credible source.The Iraelies have always stated that they weren’t going to allow a nuclear armed Iran and I believe them.Due to the sensitivity of this area,everybody will be drawn in and it will be a total clusterfuck for the world.I can hear the apocalypse preachers spouting thier verse now.I guess all we have to be thankful for is that it is over there and not here.
I think this quote from Albert Einstein is suitable for this situation.“I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but World War IV will be fought with sticks and stones.”

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By Bill L, July 13, 2011 at 9:05 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Why get sucked in? We should make a stand now and say if Israel starts something with Iran then they can finish it.  They’ve already done enough damage to the US through getting us involved in Iraq.
It would only take once that we fail to back Israel and when they are left cleaning up their own mess, they’ll have learned to be more circumspect.
And BTW, no not everything Israel does is pre-approved by Washington.

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Billy Pilgrim's avatar

By Billy Pilgrim, July 13, 2011 at 5:57 am Link to this comment

If Israel attacks Iran, it will be with our blessing.
Just remember that. Israel doesn’t act unless Uncle Sam
gives the thumbs up. I would rather see Iran overthrow
their Islamic Republic and install a real, peaceful
democracy.  That would really scare Netanyahu and his
far right, religious fanatic coalition.

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THX 1133 is not in the movie...'s avatar

By THX 1133 is not in the movie..., July 13, 2011 at 4:43 am Link to this comment

As to Baer’s comments; I found them considered and
interesting. I’m more concerned now, because the
chatter had lowered considerably, that it (an attack)
may actually go forward.
But what really concerned me was the implication that
Israel would go rogue.
That scares the holy hell out of me; given the choice,
stupidly, we’ll be sucked into yet another effin war
that will be the camel’s back breaker; the one that
done us in; coup de grâce, so-to-speak…

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THX 1133 is not in the movie...'s avatar

By THX 1133 is not in the movie..., July 13, 2011 at 4:32 am Link to this comment

By PatrickHenry, July 13 at 3:16 am
A person, a group of people or a country, no one can
have free speech if it is critical of them.

They need their ass handed to them in order to get
them to STFU.
=======================
That and they fling the old saw about being an
anti-Semitic; chaps my ass it does!
I hate the Israeli government damn it, not Jews!
But the machine grinds on hearing nothing but it’s
own echo….

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PatrickHenry's avatar

By PatrickHenry, July 13, 2011 at 3:16 am Link to this comment

Same old threat over and over.

Israel is always going to attack something it doesn’t like whether it be by newspapers, over the air editorials or by extrajudical killing. 

A person, a group of people or a country, no one can have free speech if it is critical of them.

They need their ass handed to them in order to get them to STFU.

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