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Tea-Baggers March on Washington, Have No Idea Why

Posted on Sep 15, 2009

If these anti-Obama marchers are to be believed, fascism and socialism are the same thing, abortion caused 9/11 and “Glenn Beck is such a logical thinker.” There’s a whole pile of crazy where that came from.  —PS

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By Night-Gaunt, November 16, 2009 at 10:25 am Link to this comment

“Complete” & spelling variant “compleat” mean to finish, all done, all covered. A dictionary is the best way to find most words. But not all of them.

Some people want to denigrate and ignore the message by attacking the messenger. That is what I hear when those who say they would watch but… Just an excuse to not see where the problem is. I look forward to seeing his new documentary—it will be illuminating.

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By lucyeddie, November 15, 2009 at 2:44 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sorry guys, what is COMPLETE? I’ve searched in acronymserach, but it gave no results

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By MarthaA, September 19, 2009 at 1:12 pm Link to this comment

Michael Moore is a patriot, I can hardly wait until his new documentary movie about Capitalism comes to my city.

I am certain Michael Moore’s documentary movie will not be a favorite with Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Republicans, but nevertheless it is a documentary and if it is as good as all the rest of his documentaries, it will be worth my time and money going to see it.

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By Night-Gaunt, September 19, 2009 at 11:50 am Link to this comment

No one is “unbiased” for to be that way in our society is to not question but merely report. We have plenty of those stenographers for power as it is. How is Michael Moore‘s questioning of anything makes him a “nut job” in your eyes? He puts himself on the line in places that could hurt him. You may not like his style but can you actually point out where he is misrepresenting the facts in favor of bias? Please show us. Don’t confuse the messenger with the message. Yes show me where he is that “left wing” equivalent to the Limbaugh‘s otherwise you are just dissembling with the “they both are bad” canard that is baseless.

Michael Medved claims our health numbers would be better if all the murders and such were taken out of the count. Well that is a problem in logic there. Either all the numbers from all those counties also include such extraneous deaths from outside of the hospital or none of them do. Unless he is hinting that our numbers unfairly carry these murders and everyone else doesn’t. If that is what he is implying then he needs to show us that is happening then show the adjusted counts. He loses in his argument as I see it.

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By MarthaA, September 18, 2009 at 8:49 pm Link to this comment

Insurance forced on people who can’t afford to insure themselves is a form of usury, as they only get to pay and not receive anything should an accident or sickness happen.  It works that way with auto insurance and health insurance will undoubtedly be the same, if insurance companies get their way, because poor people can barely afford liability for the other person, which is usury.

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By no mans land, September 18, 2009 at 6:24 pm Link to this comment


Disregarding all the healthy, responsible who also need health care, I’d prefer to stay from the whole “those who deserve health care and those who don’t” line of thinking. Once we go down that road, it doesn’t stop. By the time you filter through all the differences we have and get to the last two people who do atually have health care, we’ll be arguing about blue eyes vs brown. Should the police only protect the employed? How about the fire department?

As for emergency services, I realize they won’t be turned away (unless they need a liver transplant and have no coverage or had acne 10 years ago). But what of their pending bankruptcy or their trashed credit ratings when they can’t pay their bills? (BTW: Why aren’t the Becky conspiracy nuts all worked up over that little Orwellian gem?)

Why overhaul the system now you ask? Because its in the darkest times that truth is revealed. To wait until the next bubble to crop up only lends itself to more denial of the problem.

I’ve already agreed that we should not be forced to purchase insurance. Its like throwing someone a life preserver of stone. The time for the insurance companies must pass. Phase them out if necssary, but we must get past this useless and abusive method of delivery. There is no need for it other than too many people have made it their livelihood. Sorry, but eventually we outlawed human trafficing and slavery too.

Think of all the insurance requirements we have now.
Health, Dental, Life, Auto collision, Auto Liability, End of Life, Home, Renter, Crop, Malpractice, Disaster, Event… List goes on and on, but nor can forget all the so called warranties we now must purchase when buying anything from a car to a television, which is just a form of faulty product insurance.

Why do you suppose that is? Why is insurance the only solution we can up with? Its because the cost of living has surpassed the ability of the median income to absorb it. So I’ll make you a deal. I’ll let insurance stay if we can have a meaningful living wage for all with benefits, real time off and social services for those who need it (to include child care for sinlge mothers.) I’d say $15/hr as a baseline would be a good place to start. After that, we need to break up every monopolized market in the country. I’d settle for that. What do you say? Politics is all aobut compromise!

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By veronicaf, September 18, 2009 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment

Did you read my post? Lawsuits make up 1-2% of the total industry costs, yet 30-40% is spent on administrative costs, costs which can certainly be curtailed. You are blaming the high cost of your premiums on lawyers only, completely dismissing the major contributing factor behind your high premiums – the insurance companies.  And, in typical civil case settlements, an attorney receives one-third of the total settlement to be paid to the injured party, it is not one-third in addition to the settlement. Nor did I say that fees charged by doctors will be determined by government; I simply asked IF your malpractice premiums go down, will you pass those savings on to your patients? Will the insurance companies pass those savings on to the consumer? If government doesn’t step up to the plate, and enforce regulations, the insurance industry will continue to be free to charge you astronomical premiums.

Again, the committee will RECOMMEND what services should, should, not will, be included in each package, i.e. basic, enhanced, and premium; NOT to form policy, NOT dictate policy, will NOT have the power to determine who gets what treatments. Since it will be comprised of MEDICAL experts, both public and private, who better to have informed decisions when it comes to what defines basic medical care? A government bureaucrat, or a licensed medical professional?  Additionally, the committee will NOT have the power to dictate what fees a doctor can charge. The government (not the committee), will, however, have the ability to regulate how much insurance companies and doctors can charge for those patients who are members of the PUBLIC plan; the bill will ASK doctors to accept below-market fees for those patients in the public plan, just as it currently does for Medicare; doctors are still free to charge their normal fees to those patients with private insurance, and, they don’t have to accept those who have the public plan. Do keep in mind that these patients will be those who currently do not have insurance, and can pay a doctor little to next to nothing now. Should a current uninsured find better coverage for a better price under a private plan, they are free to do so, thus unaffecting your bottom line.

Again, Medicare savings will not impact funds allocated for patient services, plain and simple. Savings would come through fraud, abuse, and overpayment prevention measures. I don’t know how much clearer this need be. And, rationing is a scare tactic being used by the GOP, and many seniors are falling for it.  If I’m not mistaken, the AMA is predicting that we will already suffer doctor/nurse/specialist shortages by the year 2020, regardless if reforms are passed or not.  The proposed bill provides incentives for students to enter the medical field; incentives in the way of loan repayment programs, and training program grants, in addition to other like incentives, as well as encourage those in the medical field to practice in under served areas, and encourage students to enter the primary care field. Also, as medical schools recognize the need for more doctors and nurses, many are beginning to increase enrollment, as many schools usually limit the number of student enrollment annually. While there is no guarantee that these proposals, if instituted, will work, it is clear that the bill will address this issue, and it is up to the citizens whether they will take advantage of said incentives or not. Now, is end-of-life counseling wrong?  I’d rather ENSURE I have my ducks in a row before I die, than have my family deal with a potential ‘Schiavo’ incident. Further, end-of-life counseling is VOLUNTARY, just as it CURRENTLY is in Medicare.

It’s interesting that you ‘look down’ upon the UK’s system, as it is far superior in world-wide rankings than our current system, 17 compared to 37. I’d say the British have a better handle on ensuring the health of its citizens than the US.

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By tsivan, September 18, 2009 at 1:52 pm Link to this comment

no mans land
As for a good living, I’m not destitute, but I’m not making a dime more than I was upon leaving residency, though I’m seeing more patients, paying more taxes, and my overhead is increasing every year. 

As for covering everyone, that’s just it.  We can’t send anyone away in an emergency, regardless of ability to pay, and those with no income (legal or otherwise) are covered with better benefits than I could possible afford, through medicaid.  Those who have worked for their livelihood are covered by medicare.  That leaves a group in the middle.  Some are truly trying to make ends meet and having trouble with the new car, big house, flat scren tv, 2 ppd smoking, and affording health care.  Some are just out of college, and don’t want the money taken out of their checks, and don’t WANT healthcare. 

The really upsetting issue here is the government trying to mandate that everyone HAS to have insureance, or that their employer HAS to provide it.  Where will the money come from?  Lower wages or lost jobs.  We can’t just print more like the fed can.

These proposed plans don’t address the long term issues, and punish those who are already insured, or providing insurance to their employees, as I know, because I’m doing both.

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By no mans land, September 18, 2009 at 1:34 pm Link to this comment

Right on, Tsvian.

lol. okay. I took some creative license on the drinking and hookers.

I’m saying that for something as important as healthcare, which I consider as imporatant as the police, fire departement, and military, it should probably be left to public shere. (Personally, I think all critical services necessary for life, such as heat, water, and electricity should be in the public domain.) The free market works well for some industries, but not so well for others.

I know that’s not a popular postion for someone who probably makes a very good living in that industry, but my conscience has to go with those that don’t. I have yet to see how a free market system will ever be able to cover everyone, especially without severe individualized economic consequences.

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By tsivan, September 18, 2009 at 1:17 pm Link to this comment

no mans land-

Your military analogy certain has some validity, until the point about all the wonderful gifts the soldiers receive.  While some of my older colleagues may have had perks and gifts of the likes that lobbyists provide out in DC, but a drug rep is not allowed to even leave an ink pen (which I go through about 2/week in our “paperless” office) or a notepad with any drug name on it.  How they are allowed to direct market to consumers is still baffling to me, by the way.  If the lobbyists on the hill, and the massive corporate campaign contributors to both (don’t kid yourself) parties were held to the same strict standards we would probably not be having this healthcare discussion, and the pandering from the democrats to the trial lawyers and insurance companies would be as laughable as it is inexusable.

The problem still comes down to HOW to fix the situation.  NO ONE is arguing to stick our heads in the sand and hope for the best, but overhauling the entire system, in the midst of an economic recession (if not depression) is stupid.  We need to try to fix the system we have (as most Americans are happy with their healthcare overall) and do so as economically as possible.

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By no mans land, September 18, 2009 at 12:46 pm Link to this comment

sorry. didn’t mean to post twice…

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By no mans land, September 18, 2009 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

If the military were run like our health care system…

I wonder what it would look like? No, I’m not talking about contractors who receive federal dollars. They’re a whole other issue. I’m wondering what it would look like if we had a truly private military modeled after the health care and insurance industry?

-Protection Insurance Companies: They collect your dollars under a promise that if there is ever a threat, they will hire the services of a warfighting company to come to your aid.
(no preexisting threats, please. And if your family gets killed by flying debris, then technically they weren’t “killed by an enemy” and we are hereby relinquished of all contractual obligations.)

-Private Security Companies in every town: None of them share information or know how to write legibly. Each private soldier is working to pay off his outlandishly high training loans. And even when the people are being raped and murdered in their beds, they have to get the permission of their insurance “deciders” first. There is a gross lack of general foot soldiers, because the real money is in the specialized forces. Yes, they swore an oath, but hey, money talks.

-Protective Security Conferences: Private Security Companies and the Protective Insurance Industry meet to collaborate on the latest security gadgets. The soldiers are showered with good drink and naughty hookers. All they have to do is agree to hand out a few samples of the latest full metal jacket rounds to their towns whether they need them or not. (They also hand out a lot of annoying pens and weird folding calculators. Nobody knows why.)

-Ammunition suppliers advertise liberally on television showing happy and VERY SATISFIED women who have come to know the wonders the ammo did for their men. (Side effects may include mushrooming exit wounds, severe loss of blood, and PTSD). Of course, there is a 10 year ban on generic ammo so they can recoup their marketing—errr, I mean research investments. One bullet costs 5 dollars.

Meanwhile, the people are busy insulting and attacking every enemy they can. In fact, most of what they do provokes ire and disdain from around the globe. Its fast, convenient entertainment to insult them, so any attempt to regulate the provocation of our enemies is only met with tea party protests.

As our enemies close in and fewer and fewer people can afford any protective service at all, some begin suggesting that maybe we should consider a national military. Politicians scream about the end of America and the coming Fascist, Communist, Socialist, and Evolutionist armageddon. (D) “But, Senator! They’re landing on Myrtle Beach as we speak!”

(R)“I will not have taxes raised, nor will I stand for a government takeover of the military! They will turn on us and kill all of our old people! Do you want your grandmother raped and murdered by these socialist goose-steppers?”

(D)“What about just a small government force to provide some competition?”

(R)“Nope. I don’t like it.”

(D)“ok. you win.”

A compromise is formed. “We’ll form security exchanges! They’ll be a place where all of our people can go to shop for the best Protective Insurance Plans. And the best part is that we’re going to require everyone to sign up!”

The protection industry grows to a full 75% of GDP and before long, the only jobs to be had are in the protection industry. 300 million people wondering around protecting each other. Case closed. No more national security concerns, ever!

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By no mans land, September 18, 2009 at 12:41 pm Link to this comment

If the military were run like our health care system…

I wonder what it would look like? No, I’m not talking about contractors who receive federal dollars. They’re a whole other issue. I’m wondering what it would look like if we had a truly private military modeled after the health care and insurance industry?

-Protection Insurance Companies: They collect your dollars under a promise that if there is ever a threat, they will hire the services of a warfighting company to come to your aid.
(no preexisting threats, please. And if your family gets killed by flying debris, then technically they weren’t “killed by an enemy” and we are hereby relinquished of all contractual obligations. And yes, a bullet IS considered “flying debris” because once it leaves the muzzle it has technically been thrown away and is no longer considered a weapon.)

-Private Security Companies: None of them share information or know how to write legibly. Each private soldier is working to pay off his high training loans. And even when the people are being raped and murdered in their beds, they have to get the permission of their insurance “deciders” first. (Sure, they swore an oath. But, hey, money talks.) There is a gross lack of general foot soldiers, because the real money is in the specialized, cosmetic forces.

-Protective Security Conferences: Security Companies, Suppliers, and the Protective Insurance Industry collaborate on the latest security gadgets. The soldiers are showered with good drink and Vegas hookers. All they have to do is agree to hand out a few samples of the latest full metal jacket rounds to their towns—whether they need them or not. (They also hand out a lot of annoying pens and weird folding calculators. Nobody knows why.)

-Ammunition suppliers advertise liberally on television with VERY SATISFIED, barely-legal girls who have come to know the wonders the ammo did for their men. (Side effects may include mushrooming exit wounds, severe loss of blood, and PTSD). Of course, there is a 10 year ban on generic ammo so they can recoup their marketing—errr, I mean research investments. One bullet costs 5 dollars.

As our enemies close in and fewer and fewer people can afford any protective service at all, some begin suggesting that maybe we should consider a national military. Politicians scream about the end of America and the coming Fascist, Communist, Socialist, and Evolutionist armageddon. (R)“I will not have taxes raised, nor will I stand for a government takeover of the military! They will turn on us and kill all of our old people! Do you want your grandmother raped and murdered by these socialist goose-steppers?”

(D) “But, Senator! They’re landing on Myrtle Beach as we speak!”

(R) “So?”

(D)“What about just a small government force to provide some competition?”

(R)“Nope. I don’t like it.”

(D)“ok. you win.”

A compromise is formed.

(D)“We’ll form protection exchanges! They’ll be a place where all of our people can go to shop for the best Protective Insurance Multi-Plans (PIMP). And the best part is that we’re going to require everyone to sign up! Even employers and people who can’t afford it.”

(R)“hmmm. ummm. nope.”

(D)“Can we at least pass a resolution asking the protective insurance industry to promise not to drop anyone and call it ‘sweeping healthcare reform’?”

(R) “Deal!”

In The End…

The protection industry grows to a full 75% of GDP and before long, the only jobs to be had are there. 300 million people wondering around protecting each other until the cost of doing so outpaces their salaries and the economy completely collapses. The people turn on each other in bloody combat and begin thinning the herd. Case closed. No more national security concerns, ever!

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By tsivan, September 18, 2009 at 11:09 am Link to this comment


I think we all agree that the system needs to be fixed.  Assuming that anyone, but the trial lawyers and insurance companies, are happy with the current system is as ignorant at the people on this video.

Having not lived in the UK, I don’t know any more about the healthcare system then the rumors, and most of them not too positive, that I hear.  However, would you argue that the same system that works moderately well for a country of 58million people would just slide in nice and easy to one of 307million spread over an entire continent?  Besides, if the English spend half as much for 1/6 the population, it seems that we are ahead of the curve.

You may be right about Obama not voting for the UNITED NATIIONS war in Iraq, as he didn’t seem to do much for or against anything worth talking about in his brief time in the Senate.  However, despite his neatly scripted campaign promises, how many American troops has he returned from Iraq? 0, and how many thousands are now in Afghanistan?

As for watching the left wing crazies, like Michael Moore, no, personally his deluded sense of self worth and warped sense of blame sickens me.  But, are you honestly arguing that this leftwing nutjob is any closer to a balanced and unbiased opinion than Rush Limbaugh or Glenn Beck on the right?

I agree, like proposed by John McCain, about opening up state borders for those seeking insurance, and tax credits for individuals to obtain insurance, if fiscally feasible, at least sounds good on the surface.  Also, allowing small businesses to co-op and buy insurance for their employees in a larger pot would spread the liability and very likely reduce rates.  But starting another government run plan with no more foresight than that given to medicare, medicaid, the VA, or IHS, and decreasing funding to those above, is just a great big step in the wrong direction.

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By Night-Gaunt, September 18, 2009 at 10:59 am Link to this comment

You also won’t find them in front of Fertility Clinics either even though they “act like God” and dump any fetuses that just don’t survive. They generate many of them to get the one the parents want.

Dennis Kucinich was the man to steer this ship of state away from the waters of fascism and tyranny to something more approaching the kind of democratic-republic we could actually mostly agree would be a better place and a beacon for others to emulate. Not where we are going to the dark side and more in line with the worst of humanity’s creations.

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By no mans land, September 18, 2009 at 8:30 am Link to this comment


less than 1% of the population in uniform

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By tsivan, September 18, 2009 at 8:03 am Link to this comment


I couldn’t agree more.  The frustrating thing about this, and most debates for that matter, is that the majority of americans are very similar in the desired end result.  It’s just the darn HOW that mucks everything up, and the political earmarks and hidden agendas that seem to cloud the issue from the wings of BOTH parties.

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By no mans land, September 18, 2009 at 8:02 am Link to this comment


I certainly do pay taxes. It’s a difference in perception though. Two wars. Economic meltdown. And multiple crises on the horizon. Yet no one, except for the less than 1% in uniform who are being recycled again and again through these wars, have been asked to anything for thier country. They were not drafted. They were not even asked to volunteer. The have not been asked to pay higher taxes, but rather had them cut as we engaged in multiple wars. They have not been asked to even donate or to participate in public service at all. All that was asked of the American people was for them to continue shopping and were told faith based initiatives were the answer. All of this after the worst terrorist attack in our history. So excuse me if I puke when I hear Hannity spew more armchair warrior patriotism.

Now we’re in a mess. A very real mess. Yes, I will pay my taxes. And yes, I expect everyone to shoulder part of the burden that has been wrought on the people of this nation. The mess that was caused by those who more concerned with renaming french fries and dividing this country with their extreme nationalist rhetoric than they were about the very people they were sent to lead. Its a big shit sandwich and we’re all gonna have to take a bite.

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By no mans land, September 18, 2009 at 7:23 am Link to this comment


Truth be told, I’m not a fan of what Baucus has put out. Between individuals and small employers being forced to purchase insurance that has no real competition is a recipe for disaster. I don’t know anyone who really thinks that these health exchanges will solve our problems.

The quality of VA care varies from center to center. The one I’m at, I’ve not had any significant problems with. However, the problems you mention are a relfection of national priority which is reflected in whhat we choose to spend our money on. What could the VA have done with the 700 BN bailout? What could private medical practitioners do with a just a fraction of our defense budget? What could the money given to GM have done to subsidies healthy organic farming? Presently, 1 dollar buys more in junk food calories than it does in a healthy alternative, so from a purely biological standpoint, our economy ensures obesity and chronic health problems.

It is a matter of national priorities and unfortunately our priorities lend themselves much more to creating medical problems than in solving them.

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By tsivan, September 18, 2009 at 7:09 am Link to this comment


I agree that insurnace companies should adhere to reasonable price increases, but legislating what they can charge, and not preventing the burden of the lawsuits they face on the back end is not a long term solution.  Personally, as for tort reform, I see the issue as preventing the frivelous lawsuits, like that which made John Edwards his fortune, not capping the fees imposed.  Though, it is interesting to hear you say the the fees charged by lawyers are between the clients and the lawyers, while you miss the hypocrisy of the fees charged by the doctors and health insurance companies being dictated by the government.  It is also interesting to hear that you believe cutting millions of dollars in funding to a program that is already strapped for cash will not impact patient care.  You expect medicare providers to provide more care, for more people, with less money.  Something’s got to give, and yet another federal policy of forcing an entity to adhere to a set of rules that defies economic sense won’t work any better than any other legislative blunder proposed in the last 100 days.

You say that healthcare won’t be rationed, only that a presidentially appointed committee will decide what is acceptable treatment for each level of care.  What’s the difference?  The government will decide who gets what care, what I can do, and to whom.  That is rationing, plain and simple, and the seniors ought to be scared, because the first thing that will be deemed “unnecessary” will be prolonging therapy for those “at the end of life”, just look at the UK.


As for the VA, I have quite a few patients who see me, and pay their premiums for medicare supplement coverage, because as you mentioned the drive the to center is extensive, and because they simply aren’t able to get the care they need.  Medicare can get them a knee replacement next week, while the VA won’t be until next year, and the same with cardiovascular interventions, even waiting months to approve imaging studies.  AS for generic drugs, most of what I, and all physicians in this country, prescribe are generic medications, any are available for $4/month or $10/month at Walmart.  However, if a patient needs a medicine not on the VA list, they simply can’t get it, whether they would be willing to pay for it, or not.  This system is bursting at the seems, and it only handles those with direct military ties, who honesty probably have more tolerance for waiting all day in long lines than the general populace does.  How do you think that model will possibly work to the masses who want everything, and wanti it now?  It won’t.

You mention being dropped by tricare for no reason (one of my personal least favorite insurance companies for patients and practitioners).  This legislation for the “public option” specifically gives the commission the ability to do just that, to enroll or disenroll anyone, at any time.

You mention your employer not being able to afford coverage.  This legislation will force employers to either pay for insurance, or pay penalties.  Where will that money come from?  How many raises will be handed out when the company is FORCED to pay for insurance, and the repeal of the tax breaks that Obama has proposed go into effect.  How much more unemployment will occur?

Sure, everyone gets insurance sounds great.  But, where will the $ come from?  Oh, the rich.  I am no where near the top tax bracket, and I already pay more it taxes than I take home to my family, and it is going to get worse.  How much will “the rich” invest in this country if for every dime they give, they are taxed a quarter? 

Healthcare needs to be fixed, but increasing the already ridiculously unfair tax code won’t help. Increasing taxes to pay to reduce global warming, which not even the entire EPA can agree even exists, won’t help.

THAT’S THE THE TEA PARTIES Taxed Enough Already.  If you are one of the 40% of this country that pay no tax, good, I’m not.

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By no mans land, September 18, 2009 at 6:03 am Link to this comment

yours truly:

Sounds good, but when was the last time you saw the media cover a progressive march?

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By MarthaA, September 17, 2009 at 9:04 pm Link to this comment


The Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Republican sophist propagandists Limbaugh, Beck, Gingrich, et al, started the “czar” crap, there is NO czar’s.

What we need to do is get Liberal Obama, peace, freedom and justice signs and smiling, friendly, and peacefully join these misguided Tea Baggers in their demonstrations for freedom and justice because we all want freedom and justice, since they don’t know why, maybe we could help their education peacefully.  After all how can you be angry at the ignorant, who are being led against their own best interest?

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By no mans land, September 17, 2009 at 8:48 pm Link to this comment


I say let them have it back. The whole damn thing. Leave them to their Starbucks, their Old Navy and their chuckycheese birthdays at Appleby’s. Let them have their meth-eleven on every street corner. We all know the only way to end an abusive relationship is to leave it…

Scatter to the wind and speak of that tragic comic tale that is Americana. Let the immigrants pour in to fill our shoes. Maybe they can make a better place of it.

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By NABNYC, September 17, 2009 at 7:26 pm Link to this comment

(For photos, see blog link at bottom)
The American Nazi Party, the Fascists, and the Ku Klux Klan Had A Party Last Week-end.

The American neocons, right-wingers, the Nazis, the Fascists, the white Aryan Nation clowns, the separatists, the secessionists, the Texans (or a big chunk of them), the white southerners (or a big chunk of them), the morons, the born-agains, the Aramagedenists, the We-Love-Sarah-Palinists, the Friends Of The Drug Addict On The Radio, that drunken lunatic Glenn Beck, all the rent-boys from Rupert Murdoch’s Whorehouse, every Methbrain with a Microphone, all had a big party this week-end in Washington D.C. They didn’t lynch anyone, but they’re getting close.

The party of Neville Chamberlain did nothing, as always. I mean the Democrats. They were too busy out collecting bribes and shaking down the insurance industry, selling their votes, betraying the public, starting new wars, and firing people like Van Jones. The party of Neville Chamberlain is too corrupt to actually do anything at all in response to this gathering storm. Of course it’s us, the citizens, who will suffer the effects of the tidal wave of armed lunacy beginning to overtake our nation.

For some bizarre reasons, we now hear the right-wing screaming that there is something evil about the word “czar,” and if Obama appoints any “czar,” then he too must be bad. I’m reminded of the Tsar Nicholas. The Romanovs. Remember that in the final days, Alexandra was enthralled with Rasputin, the privileged associates of the court mostly spent their time drinking, drugging and having orgies while the peasants gathered with pitchforks in the streets, hungry, angry, with no hope or direction. The Romanovs and the 5% of the richest people in the country owned most of the wealth, while 95% went hungry. But the rich people ignored the poor.

Our politicians in D.C. are like the Romanovs—they’ve got most of the wealth, along with their friends, they live incredibly privileged lives, they apparently spend much of their time out having sex with non-spouses, drinking, drugging, finding new places to hide their money, then show up occasionally in public to “run” for the offices which are purchased for them by their wealthy corporate sponsors. That means the rest of us are the peasants.

Meanwhile, there is a gathering storm in this country of fascists, murderers, mercenaries, assassins, racists. They have guns. They are threatening violence against any citizen who opposes them. It’s not surprising they would believe that it’s okay to just kill people if you dn’t like them, since that’s exactly the motto of our federal government.

Ask Jimmy Carter what’s going on. It’s racism. These people who proudly wear T-shirts describing themselves as an angry mob are against Obama because he’s black. They don’t even know what any of his proposals are. They “want their country back,” means that they are horrified to see a black man as president. And that’s it.

You know what they remind me of? Cult members. They would strap a grenade on their love-handles and throw their bodies on an Obama yard-sign if Bill O’Really told them to. These people are mentally unstable. Cultists. Look out for them, they’re not rational and they’re armed.

Obama’s playing with fire. He’s encouraging the angry mobs, the fascists, the racists, the klan, with his polite language and deferential style, calming demeanor. His job is to keep us distracted while the leadership in the Democratic party is in the background hauling in the loot, the bribes from the insurance and war industry.

There is a gathering storm. The Democrats are either encouraging the lunatics or, at a minimum, will appease them and do nothing to stop them. What shall we do? With no national party, no national leadership, what shall we do?

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By yours truly, September 17, 2009 at 7:18 pm Link to this comment
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Doesn’t matter how many tea-baggers march, what they say nor how angry they may be.  Why?  Because the only thing that matters is how many of us progressives are ready and willing to stand up for what we believe in, march in solidarity with one another, while expressing, not only our anger at the sell-out by Barack Obama & this Democratic Congress, but how we would change things if it were up to us.  What’ll happen then is we’ll be so wrapped up in the day-to-day of our collective struggle that we won’t have either the time nor the energy to notice what the tea-baggers up to, nor will we care.

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By MarthaA, September 17, 2009 at 6:23 pm Link to this comment

Folktruther, September 17 at 12:05 am,

It isn’t just my history, it is history.  Hitler was the leader of the Nazi Party and had about 55,000 Nazis when he first tried to take over the government, but he didn’t start out with 55,000 Nazis.  Hitler didn’t start out even with the Nazi Party, he changed a little Worker’s Party’s name to the Nazi Party later after he became the leader. 

It took Hitler years to get to be the leader of the Nazi Party.  Through one of Hitler’s speeches he got to join the 5 or 6 working members of the political German Workers Party, lived off a shoestring selling his paintings and after he convinced the Worker Party’s leader that he would be a good leader he allocated a typewriter from one of the members and the rest is history. 

Hitler didn’t convince that Worker Party Group that he would be a good leader by sitting around talking, he got involved and got up on top of the tavern tables and used the tables in the Beer Halls where they met to stand on so that all could hear him and he convinced the members that he could lead that small political Workers Party and he pulled the membership together and reoriented their liberal goals to his conservative goals. “He was only the fifty-fourth person to join the German Workers’s Party.” 

Here is what wiki has to say about the Beer Hall Putsch and how Hitler used the Beer Halls, also the historical event when Hitler first tried to take over the government that ended up putting Hitler in prison:

Here is what Hitler himself has to say in “Mein Kampf” about his use of the tavern tables:

“Every last agitator who possesses the courage to stand on a tavern table among his adversaries, to defend his opinions with manly forthrightness, does more than a thousand of these lying, treacherous sneaks.  He will surely be able to convert one man or another and win him for the movement.  It will be possible to examine his achievement and establish the effect of his activity by its results.  Only the cowardly swindlers who praise their ‘silent’ work and thus wrap themselves in the protective cloak of a despicable anonymity, are good for nothing and may in the truest sense of the word be considered drones in the resurrection of our people.”

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By veronicaf, September 17, 2009 at 5:51 pm Link to this comment


All the more reason why before tort reforms are instituted, insurance companies must adhere to regulations that prevent ad-hoc premium increases; they do it because they can. I understand your position, especially if you are an ob/gyn, you would do everything you can in order to cover your rear. I’m a certified paralegal, I get the whole malpractice issue (while attorney malpractice premiums are not as high as medical, they are still obscene). But, to claim that high premiums are the result of lawsuit settlements only is disingenuous. I agree with peer-panel reviews, however, to push reforms without said panel, putting caps on settlements, and restricting doctors in what preventive procedures they CAN perform, which punishes doctors in the ability to perform their duties, and punishes patients who suffer doctor-inflicted injuries. Settlement amounts should be based on the amount needed to cover patients future healthcare costs, and determined on a case-by-case basis. I do not agree that caps should be placed what attorney’s should be paid – that is an issue between the attorney and his client (industry standard is one-third of the settlement); do remember that in legitimate malpractice suits, attorney’s, paralegals, investigators, etc., put in HUGE amounts of time and expense in forming their case. Yes, there are litigious attorneys out there – those who pursue frivolous lawsuits ought to be punished, subject to fines, and considering the severity of the ethical violations, and damage inflicted on a wrongfully accused doctor, suspension, or if need be, disbarment.
Pursuant to the bill, the purpose of the committee, under the Surgeon General, and comprised of public and private medical experts, will only have the power to recommend what coverage/benefits are to be included in basic, enhanced, and premium service packages. The committee will not have the power to make policy, nor will it have the power to dictate policy, therefore there is nothing to ‘bypass the legislative branch’.  Further, it will have no power whatsoever in deciding what treatments consumers will be provided with. And, since it only has the power of recommendation, its recommendations may not even make the cut.  Additionally, the function of the Health Choices Commissioner is to ensure that these services are actually provided to consumers, i.e.: prescription drugs, infant care, vaccines, mental health services, etc. 

Medicare savings that would be achieved are totally unrelated to patient care; funds allotted for patient care will not be impacted at all. The savings would come from overpayments to insurance companies, adhering to fraud prevention measures, savings billions alone, reducing abuse, and cutting additional wasteful spending. I’m not sure how Medicare is a ‘fiasco’, since not only are seniors happy with it, many Medicare plans typically rank among the highest performing plans for seniors, and the disabled, nationwide, year after year.

Look, I’m not all that keen on the Democrats, either. I find them spineless, and beholden to their corporate masters; the leadership is woefully incompetent. But, I don’t remember this outrage from the right when Bush and the GOP were spending like drunken sailors in a French whorehouse. All I remember was being called a traitor, anti-American, treasonous, and un-patriotic because I didn’t agree with him and them; felt their far-right agenda was disastrous for this country, which turned out to be true.  If memory serves me correctly, many people were arrested just for wearing anti-Bush t-shirts at his rallies, and I don’t ever remember people openly carrying loaded weapons to his rallies …

While I will not claim that many who attended Obama’s inauguration were smarter than those in the above video, I can safely say that at least they knew what they were there for.

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By rwmenser, September 17, 2009 at 5:49 pm Link to this comment

There is no excuse for ignorance, however there is for stupidity.

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By no mans land, September 17, 2009 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment


Personally, the closer I get to private health care, the more rationaing I experience. My employer cannot afford to provide it. They had every intention but simply cannot afford it because we are a very small company. In the CEO’s words “I certainly hope Obama can deliver on health care reform. We just couldn’t find anything for small company like ours.” My second attempt to get covered was through the army reserves. Its a hybrid system where they subsidze low cost coverage through TRICARE. I was approved for coverage on 1 May of this year. I went to get some antibiotics for a sinus infection and quickly found out that I’d been dropped without explanation on 31 May. Still haven’t learned why.

I now get all of my health care through the VA, which is a TRUE public option. Honestly, I’m pretty happy with it. The only thing I dislike is that I have to drive a ways to get there, but for the vast majority of care that people need I think they do a great job. Plus, they are on the cutting edge of Traumatic Brain Injury, PTSD, and electronic records keeping. Yes, they tend to try the least expensive option first, such as generic meds before namebrand, but I don’t mind.

The point is that the first form of rationing is access, which is controlled by cost. Without the government, healthcare would be an elite, exclusive privelage only.

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By purplewolf, September 17, 2009 at 3:45 pm Link to this comment

bogi666: You mean that Glenn Beck actually had a brain at one time?

Knute” The neutron bomb were made in the early 1070’s and they only destroy living things. I do agree, where were these idiots the last 8 years, as most of what they are raising hell about was a staple of the Bush regime.

I cringe every time I think about how the outside world sees Americans. A few years back America was refered to as a child while the rest of the countries were adults. Still we have not matured in time, but rather regressed mentally as well as morally.

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By tsivan, September 17, 2009 at 3:18 pm Link to this comment

to set the record straight, I am a physician, so I am certainly in favor of tort reform.  Let me take a moment to explain how medicine works…
My overhead goes up 20% or more every year, with tens of thousands of dollars going to malpractice insurance, while my reimbursement went up 0.5% last year, and is scheduled to be decreased 20% next, year.  Is there a problem, of course.  Why are treatments so expensive?  I have to cover every possible scenario to do all I can to avoid being sued.  As the current system exists, there are no repurcussions for lawyers to sue doctors, hospitals, insurance or pharma companies.  Therefore, people like John Edwards can make billions suing companies and settling out of court to avoid frivelous lawsuits.  Therefore, all of those entities have to try to protect themselves, and raise rates to compensate for the legal representation. 

As it is, I can’t afford to lower rates, we’re borrowing money to make ends meet as it is.  Tort reform, in other words a panel of physicians, insurers, nurses, and pharma, to evaluate cases BEFORE they are brought out incurring countless expenses to those involved, would allow the insurance industry to lower rates, as they have in states which have enacted tort reform. 

Now is a pivotal time, the medicare payment structure needs to be adjusted to reflect the current market, and tort reform is the only legitimate cost saving issue. 

As for medicare, yes, it will reduce the money provided to medicare and medicaid by $500billion.  Its cleverly disguised and “offset” by the proposed “savings” but it will lower the money earmarked for the programs, just when the babyboomers are reaching the age to need the benefits.

Creating a new “public option” with no money to back it, and no idea how to run it any better than the fiasco that medicare, indian health services, and the veterans administration have demonstrated is ludicrous, and this bill allows the president to directly appoint more “commissioners” to oversee those decisions regarding who and what services to provide, bypassing the legislative branch of our government all together.

As for rubberstamping ideas, I can’t stand it no matter who is doing it.  As I’ve stated before, blind allegiance to any particular party is just that, blind, and having a single entity in charge of all three branches of our government is a very dangerous proposition.  Right now the demcrats have a very leftist agenda and don’t even seem to care what the moderate aspects of their own party have to say, let alone the conservatives, or their own constituents.

AS for the idiots on this video, of course they are stupid.  That was the point of the video.  Are you honestly trying to tell me that the millions who turned out for the inauguration were any smarter?  Do you honestly think that a filmaker could not find just as many idiots in any crowd that size?

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By veronicaf, September 17, 2009 at 2:42 pm Link to this comment


Sigh. “The country is overwhelmingly in favor of tort reform ...”, “but decreasing funding to medicare and medicaid, ...”, and “forcing employers to use it, ...”

Tort reform is a strawman argument. Lawsuits make up 1-2% of the insurance industry’s total costs. Do you really think tort reform will cause doctors to lower their rates?; that insurance companies will pass the savings onto consumers? LMAO. How about administration reform, which costs run about 30 to 40% of total industry costs? Further, the bill does NOT state that Medicare and Medicaid funding will be decreased. It DOES call for stemming wasteful spending, much of which would fund a good portion of a public healthcare OPTION. And, the bill does NOT force employers to use the public OPTION. It DOES require that companies with payrolls over $400K provide its employees with healthcare coverage, be it private OR public.  Besides, what’s wrong with a public OPTION (ie: choice, not force)?  I thought you right-wingers were all for ‘healthy competition in the market place’?

“we have seen the government take over the banking and automotive industries ...”

Um, the financial bailout was started under Bush, not Obama. While I may not have agreed with Obama continuing it, however, I do comprehend that if Obama had pulled a “Hoover”, we would be in FAR worse shape now. And, unless you’ve missed it, the banking industry has been paying the government back the funds it was given … no government takeover.  Same goes for the auto industry – as soon as it can stand on its own two feet, it will, no government interference. Again, to do nothing would have been FAR more costly.

“It is certainly easy to find those speaking out of ignorance ...”

Well, they certainly make it easy to ridicule them.  They’ve PROVEN they are speaking out of ignorance!  Did you watch the video? Not one tea-bagger can provide one basic FACT to support their arguments.  Not ONE. Couldn’t name ONE THING that Obama has done that even HINTS at socialism, and fascism! They couldn’t name ONE THING he has done to ‘destroy this country’; couldn’t answer as to what they want to take ‘their’ country back from! My favorites? The kid who said Obama’s raising everyone’s taxes (REALLY?!), and the guy who asked the reporter how he knew that the ‘czars’ were policy advisors ONLY (SERIOUSLY?!).

“he has done far more to hurt this country and enhance the economic “downturn”, ...”

I don’t know where you’ve been hiding but, I’ve heard and read several recent reports that state the economy is on the uptick. Jobless claims, while still high, are down significantly from a few months ago.  Slowly, yes, but on the uptick, which is a sight better than the flip-side.  I’ve seen long stagnant infrastructure improvements churning anew these days in my area, all courtesy of the stimulus package. While jobs may be lagging behind, historically, the job market is usually one of the last areas to show improvement. Besides, it took us a few years to dig ourselves into this hole, it will certainly take more than a few months for us to dig ourselves out.  Again, for Obama to do nothing would have been far more catastrophic and I applaud his, and Congress’s, efforts.

“Congress rubber stamping …”

I’m going to go out on a limb and guess you were just as outraged when the GOP-led Congress rubber stamped each and every one of Bush’s policies, policies that put our deficit in the trillion+ category …

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By no mans land, September 17, 2009 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

“I find it interesting that you couldn’t find anything that Obama has done positive for this country, either.”

1) He has restored some semblence of world respect for this country. Why? Because he treats them with respect instead of arrogance.

2) He has restored stem cell research which is showing very positive potential for a number of diseases and ailments.

I freely criticize him too. Do not assume that this forum has the same blind loyalty and idolotry that the Dixie Chic Redneck crowd had for Bush.

1) He ran on a ticket of change but has thus far only handed golden eggs to big business. So far, I don’t see many policy differences between he and Bush.

“I also find it interesting that you are not able to find reasonable measures within this current healthcare reform proposal, but resort to political science class.  Then again, I’m no poly-scy major, but I thought democracy was rule “By the people”.  In that case, boldly pushing policies through the legislature without the support of the majority of the population would seem to be rather a dictatorial stance, not a democratic one.  Where have I made a mistake?”

Your mistake: This is a republic and we have representative leadership. The public does not vote on every decision that needs to be made. These are the people we elected and they go forth to push their agenda. That’s how it works.

Your second mistake: This conversation has nothing to do with the health care debate. It has to do with the idiocy displayed in that video and why they don’t seem to know what the hell they’re protesting. 

“And to criticize Bush as a “drunk captain” after the hide the weiner clinton years is a little ridiculous, especially with the mortgage crisis squarely in his lap.”

Clinton deserves fair critisism for delivering the Democratic Party to its new corporate master. I think you’ll find a waning love of the Democratic Party here. And yes, some of those decisions certainly played into the economic crisis. That said, Clinton at least had an active role in the economy and helped steer it. Bush, on the other hand, believed that the best course of action was ALWAYS to do nothing. That’s what a free market ideology is. It believes the ship “will always self-correct.”

He was more like a drunk frat boy thrill-seeker driving at 80 mph without his hands on the wheel just to scare the hell out of everyone in the car. Had his administration enforced the rules on the books the economic collapse would not have happened.  Not to mention, he’s a damn war criminal…

“I’m not in any way defending Bush, or either party.  Personally, having the same party, whichever it may be, in total control of all 3 aspects of our government is a HORRIBLE idea, and bound to create problems.”

Couldn’t agree with you more. What we have is actually a one party system. Both are beholden to their corporate donors and serve them at the expense of the people. Both parties got together and created the election laws that ensure they alone will stay in power.

What irritates me is that so many can’t see that there is no difference between them. Our political system is now a merger of political elites and corporate power—not just because of a bailout, but because of things like access, influence, zero accountability and laws that seem to apply only to us. Because now we’re going to be forced by law to purchase health insurance from a band of criminals. Partly because of the Right, but mostly because of deep health industry pockets.

Mussolini would be so proud.

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By tsivan, September 17, 2009 at 1:03 pm Link to this comment

Are you any more embarrassed to be associated with these idiots, than to be represented by a president who apologizes to all of Europe for our actions, after we bailed them out of world wars I and II, bows to the head of saudi arabia, spends millions of taxpayer dollars to take his wife on “date night”, and sends world leaders DVDs of his speeches as gifts?

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By tsivan, September 17, 2009 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment


I find it interesting that you couldn’t find anything that Obama has done positive for this country, either.

I also find it interesting that you are not able to find reasonable measures within this current healthcare reform proposal, but resort to political science class.  Then again, I’m no poly-scy major, but I thought democracy was rule “By the people”.  In that case, boldly pushing policies through the legislature without the support of the majority of the population would seem to be rather a dictatorial stance, not a democratic one.  Where have I made a mistake?

And to criticize Bush as a “drunk captain” after the hide the weiner clinton years is a little ridiculous, especially with the mortgage crisis squarely in his lap.

I’m not in any way defending Bush, or either party.  Personally, having the same party, whichever it may be, in total control of all 3 aspects of our government is a HORRIBLE idea, and bound to create problems.

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By KNUTE, September 17, 2009 at 11:43 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)


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By rick, September 17, 2009 at 11:35 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

yes, its amazing that some people get tongue tied when a mike is in their mouths. fascism and socialism blended well in nazi germany. mein kamph and barrys two books are not parallel? liars will always deny the truth, thats what they do but, facts kill lies and yes, even distortion. march on people. no hoods, no rocks, no destruction, no arrests, bummer, eh. truthdig, funny but, great name.

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By bogi666, September 17, 2009 at 11:01 am Link to this comment

Byron L good observation and comments, thanks

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By Clonakilty32, September 17, 2009 at 10:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I’ve watched this video for the second time and I am
truly embarrassed as an American citizen to think the
rest of the world is looking on an realizing what a
bunch of hicks there are in this country.  America is a
laughing stock to the rest of the world because of
these ignorant dumbasses.

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By bogi666, September 17, 2009 at 10:50 am Link to this comment

Moving to NZ, they can’t even recite the supposed lie. They are so ignorant that its enough just to call someone a liar or a socialist without substantiating know like FOX news. They are not even hecklers they’re BECKLER’S modeling their own behavior after Beck an alcoholic manic depressive, which is a combination for psychosis.

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By no mans land, September 17, 2009 at 8:52 am Link to this comment


“The country IS for correcting the system, but decreasing funding to medicare and medicaid, while creating another federal run program, and forcing employers to use it, is NOT the answer.  This plan takes away free choice, and the free market, which is NOT democracy.  Whether it’s textbook socialism or fascism is rather irrelevant.”

You made the common error of conflating capitalism with democracy. One is an economic system, while the other is a political system. The fact is that capitalism is often at odds with or directly opposes democracy. This is why so many on the left AND the right are screaming foul when in comes to lobbyist influence.

“What has Barack Obama EVER done that has benefitted this country?  Nothing in his short time in the Senate, and he has done far more to hurt this country and enhance the economic “downturn”, or recession, until we’re headed for depression at this rate.  It’s time to stop trying to heap the blame on the previous administration and start concentrating on the problems at hand.”

Number one: When you have a drunk captain who refuses the steer the ship (Bush and his hands-off approach to any form of federal leadership), and the ship hits multiple icebergs, you can’t really blame the crew for relieving him. Nor can you blame the guy who takes his place and is simply trying to keep the ship afloat. At best, the Republican solution is minimalist, but a more accurate description of their plan to right our ship’s course is merely to criticize each and every attempt to do so. The truth is that they want their drunk, hands-off captain back and will do whatever it takes to do it. That apparently includes armed mutiny, if we are to believe Glenn Beck and the rest of his bipolar flock who show up at rallies with their signs threatening revolution and others aremed with semi automatic weapons.

By the way. Correct me if I’m wrong, but wasn’t it the Republican battle cry just a few years ago that to criticize your president in a time of war was nealy synonymous with treason? I recall quite clearly “FAUXNEWS” Pundits and congressional members alike demanding that the government begin enforcment the Sedition Act. So should we?

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By tsivan, September 17, 2009 at 7:16 am Link to this comment

It amazes, and disturbs me, that the left wing is so quick to criticize the right wing for gross characterization and oversimplification, then does the same thing. 

The country IS for healthcare reform, but not THIS plan.  The country is overwhelmingly in favor of tort reform and trying to curb the costs of healthcare, which this harvard lawyer and his trial bar buddies have left conspicuously absent from this plan. 

The country IS for correcting the system, but decreasing funding to medicare and medicaid, while creating another federal run program, and forcing employers to use it, is NOT the answer.  This plan takes away free choice, and the free market, which is NOT democracy.  Whether it’s textbook socialism or fascism is rather irrelevant.

In the first few months of this presidency we have seen the government take over the banking and automotive industries, and this plan is aiming to do the same to healthcare.  America was NOT founded on these principles, and Americans, by and large, are waking up to that and speaking out. 

It is certainly easy to find those speaking out of ignorance, but standing up for your principles and speaking out seems much more appropriate than blindly following down the wrong path, doesn’t it?

What has Barack Obama EVER done that has benefitted this country?  Nothing in his short time in the Senate, and he has done far more to hurt this country and enhance the economic “downturn”, or recession, until we’re headed for depression at this rate.  It’s time to stop trying to heap the blame on the previous administration and start concentrating on the problems at hand.

Congress rubber stamping a stimulus bill with 300 pages of ammendments added less than 12 hours before voting, with millions of dollars of ridiculous earmarks, is where we should be angry.  Finally, this country is stepping up and speaking out. 

Finally, to say that Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh, or any other conservative media personality has the power to create this level of grass roots support is simply idiotic.  If they had the power to drop barry’s popularity the fastest of any president EVER, don’t you think they would have had the power to ensure he was NOT elected in the first place?

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By Hulk2008, September 17, 2009 at 6:55 am Link to this comment

Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh and Shawn Hannity and Bill O’Reilly and Fox-and-Friends are “entertainers”.  It is a mere coincidence that they even pretend to be “news” people.  Remember that they all decry the “mainstream media” - though they are now an integral part of it. 
  True Libertarians, like true journalists, are now as scarce as hen’s teeth.  The old fart Tea Baggers are lost souls who have forgotten how to spell and just stumble around high on Viagra and Prozac.  They were forced into early retirement and now have nothing better to do than put on various logo ball caps and scream at the nearest TV camera.  They buy their smokes and lottery tickets at the 7-11 and contemplate the teeth they lost drinking sugary sodas.  In fact, they can’t remember 2 percent of what they learned in 8th grade civics class, much less complex modern economics. 
  But you can bet that the “news-tainers” of radio and cable TV are ready to lead these armies of Cialis zombies all over the park - at least while there are still advertisers to back them.

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By Thomas Dooley, September 17, 2009 at 6:37 am Link to this comment

This idea that somehow socialism is taking over the United States is an outrageous claim. This is the United States. Our leaders have never tolerated even the hint of socialism. We have no viable socialist party. We don’t even have a social democratic party.

The last time the US had even a whiff of the beginnings of a popular socialist party was back in 1920 when Eugene Debs ran for president while serving a ten year prison sentence for nothing more than giving a political speech. He was imprisoned by the Wilson Administration. Woodrow Wilson, a liberal Democrat, detested Debs and called him a ” traitor to his country.” It took a Republican president, the conservative Warren G. Harding, to commute Deb’s sentence and invited him to the White House where he warmly greeted him. Debs died in 1926.

That was it. That sorry episode is what amounted to the heyday of socialism in the US. Hell, we don’t even have a social democratic party which have been popular in Europe. Social Democrats are often described as being mildly socialist, but they aren’t socialist at all. They support capitalism which is an opposing economic system so I can’t see how they can be described as socialist. While they support capitalism they do believe some of the gains of the economic system should be used for the benefit of the population.

We do have one lone social democrat congressman, Senator Bernie Sanders, but he has no party behind him and there are no viable social democratic organizations to back him. The only thing he has behind him are the people of Vermont.

The idea that we are on the cusp of a socialist takeover here in the United States of all places is outlandish. Where is the structure needed to accomplish such a takeover? Where are the socialist party candidates? Where are the strong socialist organizations overflowing with funding?  The top elite in this county would rightly see it as a threat to their wealth and privilege and would, and have, ruthlessly crush even the glimmer of it. How can anyone believe such rubbish?

I’ll tell you how. Media. Most especially the right wing media. It may be impossible in real life, but not on TV and radio. There it is presented and ranted against as though it was real even though if one turns off the TV and looks to find that there is not a hint of socialist solidarity real life. The only socialist-like structure you may have is your family. Other than that you are on your own.

But we aren’t really talking reality. We are talking media where marvels happen all the time and where we are at the center of important fantastic events taking place right now where the fate of all that is good and right depends upon us. That’s got to be better than the reality that we are going to be alone and on our own and working our whole lives until we are old and useless then die some horrible death probably from cancer. Why not choose to believe the US is being taken over by some strange ideology and it’s up to us to save the country? It’s a gripping and entertaining story. I liked it in the “Invasion of the Body Snatchers” both the 1956 and the 1978 releases. Didn’t you?

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By LemuelG, September 17, 2009 at 6:19 am Link to this comment

I notice some fundamental misunderstandings scattered among the comments here - not too unlike those of the ‘tea-baggers’ (lol!! Hilarious name…).

- Fascism exists only as a propaganda creation of reactionary nationalists, a non-sensical banner for those with absolutist ambitions to rally the meek to their cause. Fasci = faggot, y’know, ‘bundle of sticks’, this concept is as old as western civilization (ancient Romans used it to justify imperialism… funny how it pops up again in Italy right?) and is fundamentally anti-individualist; the imagery is something any illiterate peasant can instantly comprehend - a twig on it’s own snaps easily, but a tightly-wrapped bundle is nearly invincible. It is extreme nationalism - the nation-state trans-mogrified to a mighty faggot, from which one could construct a bridge capable of bearing a mule and cart; individuals into pathetic little twigs - vulnerable and inconsequential.

But now it is just another dirty word, meaning something like: Bad Person/Idea (fascist/fascism).

The idea that fascism is a merger of corporations and the state is erroneous - regurgitating Mussolini’s weak justifications for ‘nationalizing’ industry and business is just… well, not even vaguely relevant to… anything.

- The Nazi party had a large and active socialist contingent, headed by Gregor Strasser - the ‘left’ wing of the party was fundamentally anti-capitalist, but also anti-bolshevik, in contrast to the pro-soviet communist party.

Strasser was highly popular and can be held responsible for the expansion of the party outside of it’s southern base (with his good buddy Goebbels)... meaning that without a socialist platform the Nazis would never have attained the popular support to challenge for power. It was not just lip-service either, Strasser nearly pipped Hitler to the post (of high-office) - but Hitler was as cunning and instinctive as a weasel (his only real attribute) and ran him out of town (and country) before murdering him along with the S.A. leadership.

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By ocjim, September 16, 2009 at 9:21 pm Link to this comment

Veronicaf, it’s not just white robes. Many are lost souls who realize that time and opportunity have passed them by. They know they have been screwed but have trouble identifying who did it. To them, Glenn Beck speaks their language, he speaks propaganda (name calling, loaded words, character assassination, bandwagon, etc). He is a simpleton recovering alcoholic like George Bush. They need someone to point them toward a target. They may not even know they are being racist. They just know they have been exploited and can’t identify Wall Street, George Bush, or the Republicans as their tormentors. It’s much simpler attacking Obama.

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By Folktruther, September 16, 2009 at 9:05 pm Link to this comment

Bless you, Martha, your history of Hitler is a refreshing change from the traditional one.

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By Night-Gaunt, September 16, 2009 at 8:23 pm Link to this comment

Hitler started as a gov’t agent on an infiltration mission till he liked what some of them were saying and became a real member then with others of like mind took it over and made it something they could use for themselves. It is no accident that all the independent trade unions were disbanded and only the official NS trade union of the Nazi Party came into existence. Much the same has happened to our Democrat and Republican parties. The repubs first and the demos later and not totally yet while they play at “democracy” for us to look at or not by the crypto-fascists in the richest of the rich. It took a long time but they were patient.

Max Bachus’ health care bill is an excellent example of what we have in store if the pious capitalists take over lock, stock and barrel of this country with no restraint. A 13% tax on all incomes below his straight to CIGNA et al, plus all kinds of fees-for-service too an even more costs. A nightmare out of the gate. You will have health insurance and if you refuse (due to money) you will be fined half of what you are forced to pay!

The minions of the Cabal are the kind of authoritarians that follow other leader authoritarians—-to the ends of the earth and even to mass suicide if need be. They are dangerous! We must be very careful with these people.

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By MarthaA, September 16, 2009 at 6:35 pm Link to this comment

Thomas Dooley,

When one is trying to take over a country, it doesn’t matter which political party one uses, Hitler took over a very minute socialist political party in the beginning and climbed up on tables in the bars for an audience to the people anywhere he could get a crowd and kept telling the people in the bars about what he could do with the party if they would just help him until he got too brave trying to take over the government with his tiny party that he ended up in prison, where he wrote the frames for his plans to takeover of the government in his book, “Mein Kampf” while his political party grew, then when Hitler got out of prison, he took charge of his now large political party and it became a Nationalist Right-Wing Conservative Nazi Party, with a socialist party name, but Hitler was against socialists, unions, communism, and anything liberal.  Hitler felt the Germans were culturally superior to everyone in the world. Corporations started out running Hitler, but Hitler ended up running the corporations as he was the Absolute Leader.

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By movin to NZ, September 16, 2009 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment
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These morons are not moved by logic because they are run completely by emotion only. They cannot explain any of their positions, on any issue, because their not smart enough to remember yesterdays news. How about Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin? That would be a winning ticket and I will be moving to NZ.

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By MarthaA, September 16, 2009 at 4:34 pm Link to this comment

FASCISM:  Corporations running the government; corporate governance.  The United States government is deep into fascism and corporations are pressing hard for even more control of our government; where there isn’t a need of representatives for the people; when corporations through their judges get complete control—corporations can send the Congress home because their jobs will be effectively outsourced to the corporations, unless they want to keep them around for lackeys.

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By MarthaA, September 16, 2009 at 4:16 pm Link to this comment


The Republicans aren’t just embracing these loonies, the Republicans caused these loonies as a means for the Republican EXTREMISTS to get back into power.

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By Thomas Dooley, September 16, 2009 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

Free Oregon says:
Fascism is National SOCIALISM.

No, no it isn’t. This isn’t a debatable point. Fascism and Socialism are opposing ideologies. When the Fascists first came to power one of their main goals was to break up unions and round up and imprison communists and socialists.

Maybe you are confusing the National Socialist German Workers’ Party (the Nazi Party) in Germany with the National Fascist Party in Italy. The Nazis stressed the failure of socialism, communism, and democracy as well and sought to stamp them out. How they came to be known as “socialist” when they were opposed to socialism has to do with an accident of their beginnings and a deliberate deception aimed at the German working class to enlist support. In any case the Fascists were in Italy and were called the National Fascist Party.

By the way, I don’t consider Nazism to be an ideology at all. While Mussolini made a real attempt to build Fascism into a proper ideology with a kind of rational underpinning Nazism was and remains nothing more than the lunatic rantings of Hitler and Hess. There is nothing to it past that.

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By MarthaA, September 16, 2009 at 4:10 pm Link to this comment


herewegoagain said: “They have been fed such a steady diet of constant outrage for so long, they are now addicted to being permanently pissed off, and they don’t even know it.”...“How in the hell do we stage an intervention???”

MarthaA’s answer:  We don’t.  We respectfully and peacefully, without any anger, join their march—right in the middle of them with liberal pictures and liberal slogans on liberal signs with good pictures of President Obama, liberal speakers, etc. everything liberal requesting freedom and justice from our government, as their march is for freedom and justice and none of us are against freedom and justice and we know that it isn’t President Obama that caused the problem, so we join them, dispel their anger and stop the Right-Wing’s Hitleresque manipulation of the proletariat against their own best interest. These people were told to be there and don’t have any idea why.  The Right-Wing will have bullies there and the bullies will rule if allowed, but when push comes to shove, bullies must not be allowed to rule—freedom and justice must prevail for all, not just a few.

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By Conservativeslayer, September 16, 2009 at 3:37 pm Link to this comment

Some of our right-wing fellow commentators have said Americans don’t support Obama’s health care policy. That is true, as long as you disregard all the polling data available. Because the polls show overwhelmingly Americans support health care reform. What people like tsivan fail to understand is they don’t speak for the American people. They only think they do. The republicans have lost the last 2 elections. Americans don’t support the republican party anymore. It’s become a hotbed of racist ignorant stupid people. By all means I support these racists 1st amendment rights. Let them make fools out of themesleves. They will only alienate moderates and independents from ever voting repubilcan again. The republicans are digging their own graves by embracing these loonies. Keep it up.

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By Thomas Dooley, September 16, 2009 at 3:27 pm Link to this comment

“Fascism is a totalitarian state where the means of production are privately owned but the output is directed by the government.”

Fascism isn’t a state at all—totalitarian or otherwise. It is an ideology. But let’s let that go. What I wanted to ask is this; does it make any difference if the government is controlling the corporations (the means of production) or if the corporations are controlling the government, or even if they joined forces by some other means? Isn’t the result the same? In either case the government and the corporations can be considered one entity and merely different branches of the same operation no matter how they initially joined forces.

The father of Fascism, Mussolini, gave a concise definition of Fascism. He said “Fascism is corporatism.” If anyone would know it must be Mussolini. Of course there are fuller definitions, but this is a pretty good rule-of-thumb from an expert who knows.

If you see the specter Fascism in the joining of government and corporate interests so that they become one and the same I must agree with you. Do remember though that we live in a democracy, a marginal one to be sure, but it does offer some degree of popular control over the government that is not tolerated in a corporate setting. We feel we have some right to say what the government does or does not do otherwise we would not become indignant when its leaders do things we don’t agree with. Within the corporate setting not only is democracy not tolerated, but we don’t even feel a whiff of a right that we have any say much less become indignant no matter how much the decisions of the leaders affect or even ruin our lives. Just as an aside, I’ve suspected that the main force behind “privatizing” nearly everything from local water companies to the military is intended to remove even the semblance of democratic control of the decision making from the population leaving us with no say about anything.

If you feel a creeping Fascism and that we have less and less say about decisions that directly affect us I can’t say you are wrong. It is basically Fascism—American style. Obama is proving to be a corporate toady just as I told my Obama-loving friends long before the election. And you can’t look to liberals for relief because, to be overly blunt, liberals are full-of-shit except they don’t know it and sincerely think they are not.

The answer is more democracy not less of it. We need democratic structures that give us more say in the decision making. We must keep faith with fellow citizens. Don’t get fooled into thinking that they are you enemies. No matter how much you may disagree the one thing to keep in mind is that, unless you are talking with members of the top elite, those people are suffering the same things at the same hands as you are.

Of course I expect this to fall on deaf ears and that we will turn on and claw at each other like trapped rats in a cage while the elite, the people who matter, laugh and mock us and congratulate each other on what a fine life it is.

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By veronicaf, September 16, 2009 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

For a minute there, I thought I was watching a lost skit from “Saturday Night Live”, back in the day - I can’t remember the last time I spent almost 10 straight minutes laughing as hard as I did!

I laugh because the tea-baggers/birfers/deathers/
bottom-of-the-barrel repubs cannot articulate one basic, simple FACT to back-up their reason(s) for railing against the government; give me something, ANYTHING, throw me a bone, for petessake!  I laugh that they thump their chests, and ooze fake bravado but are too cowardly to voice the ONE THING they’re REALLY pissed off about; too cowardly to publicly wear their white robes and pointy hoods. 

While it is beyond sad, I laugh because they represent, THANKFULLY, a very small percentage of Americans.

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By Purple Girl, September 16, 2009 at 2:40 pm Link to this comment

Lead Paint Lickers!!
They are calling Obama Hitler- but the Neo Nazi’s, White supremeists and anti Semites are harbored in the Repug party. As for Abortion, don’t tell me they are trying to save minority babies!
They are against Obama’s “armed” Army- yet they are the ones freaked out about Obama ‘taking their guns’?? Obama has not even mentioned gun controls, so claiming they are merely ‘standing up for the 2nd Amend’ Rights at these Rallies is BULLSHIT!
Can we send these folks pocket dictionaries? Socialism, Fascism and Communism are the Same thing??WTF?
And as for Christianity- Christ never weilded a weapon, recruited soldiers or mounted Armies- That was the Romans!! Interestingly enough He only weilded the weapon of Compassion, Empathy and Love- On his First coming, and according to St John, during His Second Coming. These heretics are fighting on the wrong side and they don;‘t even realize it!
You Have to be a schizophrenic to understand these Teabagging idiots ‘logic’.

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By MarthaA, September 16, 2009 at 2:36 pm Link to this comment


weblands said:  “Unfortunately, even when they are not “in power” they seem to be ‘in power.””

The Right-Wing Conservative Republican EXTREMISTS are following the frames in Hitler’s “Mein Kampf” which are to make it appear that the Republicans are in power even though they are not.  The following is Adolph Hitler’s words from his book:

Adolph Hitler said in “Mein Kampf”: “At that time I (Adolph Hitler) adopted the standpoint:  It makes no difference whatever, whether they laugh at us or revile us, whether they represent us as clowns or criminals; the main thing is that they mention us, that they concern themselves with us again and again, and that we gradually in the eyes of the workers themselves appear to be the ONLY POWER that anyone reckons with at the moment.  What we really are and what we really want, we will show the wolves of the Jewish press when the time comes.”

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By Free Oregon, September 16, 2009 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment

The protesters make two mistakes.

First, they are asking Government to do something. They need to ask
Government to do nothing, to get out of the way.

The reason is simple. Government is not capable of delivering on any promises.
All Government can do is apply force, and even then it is not very effective. We
need to stop asking others to do something for us and begin taking care or
ourselves. After all, self government begins with SELF.

This conundrum is compounded by the presence of several criminal syndicates
behind the scenes. Obama is a prisoner of the security apparatus and the bank
syndicate which, for the present, are cooperating. His task is to divert the
people and prevent concerted action against those who pull his strings. He
performs his task admirably.

Second, the protesters march and leave. To be effective they must stay, camp
out, and occupy the space until they get whatever they want.

Fascism is National SOCIALISM. More important, though, is to ask yourself why
people are unhappy and not simply dismiss them as crazies. When language is
perverted so that words like “right” and “left,” “liberal” and “conservative,” and
category words like “socialism,” no longer have either historical or clear
meanings, you ask too much if you expect people to articulate what bothers
them in terms with which you agree.

Sweep the verbiage aside and most people do agree of the ultimate goals. The
disagreement is on how to achieve those goals.

As long as you expect Government to use force on your behalf to get you
where you want to go you are wasting your valuable time.

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By no mans land, September 16, 2009 at 1:52 pm Link to this comment

V o T:

Brushing asife the fact that you fail to cite your source, I’ll actually agree that such was Mussolini’s version of fascism. Actually, a precise description of his system is the merger of government and business as opposed to one controlling the other.

“Fascism should more appropriately be called Corporatism because it is a merger of state and corporate power.”—Benito Mussolini

However, the essay I posted was an attempt to understand the Amercian version of the phenomenon. The entire point, which I wouldn’t need to explain had you read it, is that it can manifest in many different ways without one distinct definition, but it will share common traits and charactersisitcs.

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By MarthaA, September 16, 2009 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

These 9-12 Tea-Baggers are a homogeneous group of neo-American fascisti  acting as ‘god’s chosen people,’ chosen by themselves  to act as ‘god’s chosen people’, NOT God.  Chosen by fascists and fascism to have the face of god and to act in the name of God, being led by Glenn Beck, Dick Armey and the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Republican Movement.

The people at the Tea-Baggers 9-12 March in Washington, DC are the equivalent of the ‘god’s chosen people’ who were in the land of “milk and honey” before God’s chosen people who were actually chosen by God arrived to claim the Promised Land; and they are well on their way to meeting the same fate; those who inhabited the land of “milk and honey” before God gave the land to the people God actually chose met an abrupt end; and it looks to me like the 9-12 Tea-Baggers  are of the same type and headed in the same direction; ignorant believers that God would consider the dead that claim God, but God would not claim. If God had chosen the 9-12 Tea-Baggers,  the 9-12 Tea-Baggers would be about God’s work, and it is obvious that the 9-12 Tea-Baggers are not about God’s work.   The 9-12 Tea-Baggers are of the lot dealt with by Samson swinging the jawbone of an ass like a scythe to make way for people God actually chose, instead of choosing themselves in the name of God.

The fascisti that enabled Benito Mussolini met an abrupt end as a result of World War II, the Nazi fascisti  that enabled Adolph Hitler met an abrupt end as a result of World War II, and in the end these ignorant Tea Bagger fascisti believers following Glen Beck, Dick Armey  and the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Movement that are trying to enable a neo-fascist government in the United States will meet the same abrupt end, after much pain, misery and suffering by our nation and the world caused by their mass ignorance.

What I saw on the above You Tube clip is an ignorant mass of enabling 9-12 Tea-Bagger fascisti demonstrating in support of a Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Republican takeover of governance in the United States that would rule in the name of God; this is scary.

Prior to World War II, Rev. Charles E. Coughlin of Detroit had a radio show in support of fascist governance in the United States.  At the present time the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Republican Eco-Chamber has sprouted Neo-Fascist duplicates of Father Coughlin  that have sprung up and continue to spring up like daisies to spread their fascist sophism  and propaganda  to indoctrinate and rabblerouse crowds of people like the 9-12 Tea-Baggers in this clip.

Only time will tell where the fascist movement of the Right-Wing Conservative EXTREMIST Republicans will go, whether it will eventually die from a lack of interest, or result in another holocaust the same as, or larger, than World War II.

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By voice of truth, September 16, 2009 at 1:35 pm Link to this comment

No Man, as opposed to someone’s theoretical definition for a story in the NY Times (once a fishwrapper….).  Below is an actual, detailed definition. Wallace, by no means an objective observer, is clearly stating that this is his opinion.

Fascists advocate the creation of a single-party state.  Fascist governments forbid and suppress criticism and opposition to the government and the fascist movement.  Fascism opposes class conflict, blames capitalist liberal democracies for its creation and communists for exploiting the concept.

In the economic sphere, many fascist leaders have claimed to support a “Third Way” in economic policy, which they believed superior to both the rampant individualism of unrestrained capitalism and the severe control of state communism.  This was to be achieved by establishing significant government control over business and labour (Mussolini called his nation’s system “the corporate state”)

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By no mans land, September 16, 2009 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

voice of “truth”

You would do well to read this essay. The Danger of American Fascism, written by Henry Wallace, Vice President 1944.

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By no mans land, September 16, 2009 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

voice of “truth”

You would do well to read this essay. The Danger of American Fascism, writtem by Henry Wallace, Vice President 1944.

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By voice of truth, September 16, 2009 at 1:13 pm Link to this comment


Don’t worry about it.  The majority of folks on this board are hypocritical with very short memories.  And some of the most intolerant people I’ve EVER come across.

There is nothing in this video anywhere near as laughably ridiculous as the video taken of the average Obama voter (I personally enjoyed the lady who now “won’t have to worry about my mortgage, or my car payment!”  Seriously, the objectivity of most of you is pathetic.

At least these people were peaceful, which is more than I can say for the typical left wing rabble rousers.  Or does no one remember any of the “globalism” riots?
By the way Fascism is not when corporations control the government.  Did any corp control Hitler?  No.  Fascism is a totalitarian state where the means of production are privately owned but the output is directed by the government.  Communism is a totalitarian state where both the means of production and its output are owned by the government.  I see Fascism and the Fascist label thrown around so much on this board and yet 95% of you don’t even know what it is, you just make up a definition that pleases you.

Oh, and one other thing.  Like Fascist, if you use Rascist and Rascism so much, and to such an error of magnitude, the word itself loses meaning, and none of us want that.

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By no mans land, September 16, 2009 at 12:45 pm Link to this comment

So Tsivan:

“...the left is trying to run roughshod over the right, and the middle, and the entire country.”

As I recall, the Patriot Act was proposed and voted on in less than 24 hours (you know, the same poilicy that Obama wants to expand and NOW the right is up in arms?) Dissenters of the war in Iraq were classified, not just by wingnuts but members of congress, as “traitors,” some of whom called for the expulsion and/or execution of those who dared disagree. And who can forget that gem of a policy called “freedom fries.” Or don’t recall that whole “nuclear option” attempt a few years ago? Don’t see that happening today…

How does a month’s long, public debate, with bills tied up in bipartisan committees and the granting of concession after concession equate “running roughshod” over anyone?

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By tsivan, September 16, 2009 at 12:25 pm Link to this comment

it amazes me how the left wing seems to have no short term memory.  “Only right wing activists march”... most of the marches in the history of this country have been from the left of center, from unions, to suffragettes, to abolishioners.  Personally, I am excited to see the conservatives in our country finding their voice.

To criticize people for watching fox news, while not watching or reading anything yourself, is just as, if not more ignorant than those you criticize.  This slick trickster in the white house delivers all his teleprompter messages with great soundbites, but no substance.

Blindly following either party is a bad idea, and right now, the left is trying to run roughshod over the right, and the middle, and the entire country.  We all need to try our best to stay informed, on both sides, and make intelligent choices, not just blindly following that guy with the great speeches and no experience.

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By mcthorogood, September 16, 2009 at 12:14 pm Link to this comment

Listening to these “Teabaggers”, you can hear that they’re mad as hell!

Donning my tin-foil hat in 2007, I supported Ron Paul for president.  I was shocked at the blatant corruption, the shadow government, and the various industrial complexes that curtail democracy within our government.  Somewhere, along the way, the ideals of the American Revolution have been co-opted by corporate-personhood.  I was mad as hell and I wasn’t going take it any more.  But, along the way I also learned about radical evangelism, politics of deviance, neoliberalism, social justice, climate change, and peak oil.

Finally, I began to realize that we must accept some responsibility for the situation in the world today, and to realize that change will not come from above, but from the people below.  Just as the French rejected the birthright of kings in the eighteenth century, people outside the U.S. are rejecting neoliberalism.  Might we look to the people of Oaxaca, Mexico and Honduras as examples of real change?

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By Sam, September 16, 2009 at 12:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Can I give you $22,000.  One penny for each person you verbally and idealistically owned.  Their plain face reactions show their inability to understand someone not inside a television screen.

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By mlang46, September 16, 2009 at 11:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I found this whole video offensive. It’s main purpose: to humiliate working class people, easy targets, who are reacting out of fear to drastic economic changes that are destroying their lives.  I could go to demonstration for the Public Option and I would doubt that 90 percent of the people there would know that Ronald Reagan was the first president to appoint a drug Czar or that the czar had no executive authority.  Also I would seriously doubt that 1 out of 100 Americans with graduate degrees could explain in detail the differences in all five health care plans floating through congress with the exception being the one finally released by the finance committee. 

Ironically! in the postscript, the interviewer comments on how ignorant the participants in this rally were in equating Nazism with socialism not knowing apparently,  that the Nazi Party in Germany were called the Nationalist Socialist Party.

I was drawn to this website by the excellent article in the nation by Robert Sheer which showed how Obama’s health care plan will increase the size of government without actually improving and certainly not controlling the cost of the health care for most Americans.  I agree with him that Obama ,the great equivocator,  if he signs a health care bill without the Public Option,  will increase health care cost without any lasting improvement in health care delivery because without the Public Option, the insurance lobby will overtime, erode the regulations that he imposes on them and co-opt the regulatory agency assigned to monitor those same companies.

So I obviously disagree with the people who participated in the Tea Party rally but treating these decent hardworking Americans with contempt does not advance the cause of health care reform or make the debate about it more rational. It was just a self congratulatory exercise in willful arrogance.

This video was despicable and the editors of Truthdig should be ashamed of themselves for airing it

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By herewegoagain, September 16, 2009 at 11:53 am Link to this comment
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No_Man’s_Land writes: “Thomas Dooley: Have you tried having a conversation with them? They won’t let you finish a sentence and they damn sure won’t be friendly to you if you challenge in any way their skewed perceptions of reality.”

I know, I’ve tried and either they cut you off or stare at you with a stony expression. To be fair, I’ve done the same on occasion when they launch into their perspective. So now I just basically listen. It’s a start.

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By Night-Gaunt, September 16, 2009 at 11:36 am Link to this comment

The problem is Glenn Beck the much beloved is doing the work for them. Those who are behind so much. That includes our turncoat president Obama who is working for the worse of the worse. The same ones that are employing Glenn Beck to keep his clown show up and running against Obama. It is amazing considering as Obama continues those same programs that Bush/Cheney put in he supports and increases. While Glenn Beck cheerleads this incoherent group of angry marchers to dismantle everything just like the fascists want in the first place! Obama isn’t on our side anymore than Beck is for what they are doing. The magicians job is to fool you while the trick is done under your very nose. From the pretty girl assistant to the loud noises and smoke to confound you while the real work goes down fooling you. A version of that is going now between the scandals and the wars and the protests are all working to keep us occupied with lesser things while we aren’t going to get anything but corporate healthcare by force. The wars will go on and we will continue to lose most of our rights. The program started under Reagan has continued without change under presidents both Republican and Democrat. It is still going on now. The economy could still crash at anytime. That is one of the things waiting by the Cabal to use on us when they deem the time is right for them.

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By doublestandards/glasshouses, September 16, 2009 at 10:58 am Link to this comment
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In Vermont, life long republicans vote for Bernie
Sanders.  They started voting for him because his
anger resonated very well with their own.  They knew
that there was a lot wrong in this country and they
wanted someone in Washington who wouldn’t just go
along with the status quo.  The reason why the people
at this march like Glenn Beck is because he is angry
at the government and these people feel that the
government is to blame for a much of what is wrong in
their lives.  All they need is to be pushed a little
farther to see that government as it is, is merely a
servant of corporate greed and corruption.  Glenn
Beck has done half of our work for us.

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By Clonakilty32, September 16, 2009 at 10:46 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

So many really stupid people in this country.  The
stupid are so easily manipulated by the right wing
pundits, but stupid is stupid and dumbasses are
influencing other dumbasses.  The crime in this
country is how many really stupid dumbasses are out

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By doublestandards/glasshouses, September 16, 2009 at 10:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

All these people know is what they see and hear on Fox
news.  You could see them beginning to think when the
young man started asking questions and giving them
information they wouldn’t get from Fox.  Corporate
propaganda is the source of most of the problems we
face in this country. 

It should be said that leftists, with the exception of
some gays and lesbians, don’t shout and march in the
streets coz it’s not nice.

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By Louise, September 16, 2009 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

OK, as an elderly grandma, I can report me and folks like me spend a lot of time talking to and with the grand-kids. They are not the stupid ones, nor are we!

The youngsters are often better informed than their parents. And us old folks, at least those of us who wont do anything for money and attention, and have a clear memory of where we’ve been and why, and where we’re going and why, wouldn’t be caught dead making fools of ourselves blatantly supporting greed!

But there’s no doubt that racial prejudice is still alive and sick as ever. I’ve found the elderly I know who attack Obama do indeed have a deep-seated racial prejudice. One I never knew was there. One they kept carefully hidden. And one they can now release, in the comfort of being surrounded by like-minded narrow minds.

The majority of folks there were neither young, or elderly. For the most part, what I saw was a bunch of overweight and misinformed, (sometimes down-right stupid) pretty much stuck in the middle age bracket. How can anyone say, with a straight face Glenn Beck is a logical thinker? Maybe our educational system needs to stop teaching logic as, “Irrational Thought” and start teaching logic as “The formal systematic study of the principles of valid inference and correct reasoning”.

However, it has nothing to do with God, or religion or even the education received. It has everything to do with how easy it is to mislead, use and abuse people when the promise of easy money or more stuff is waved in the working man’s face. He’s tired. Corporate made it look like finally he was going to share the phantom “American Dream”. And then of course there is the appeal of better than equal equality that some think they are entitled too.

When these folks scream I want my country back, what they are really “thinking” is I want my life to be easier again. But beyond knowing things aren’t as easy as they would like them to be, they cant articulate what about their country they think has been taken away from them. If they could, Bush would have been impeached! And they would be smart enough to understand Congress makes the law, not Obama.

It’s a trap that most everyone in that middle group falls into. A trap created by and for the support of the very powerful Corporate. (Who are doing quite well right now, thank you very much.) And those ding-a-lings who believe how Wall Street is doing is more important than how they are doing kinda prove that.

And it is NOT the elderly who watch FOX news! WE know how to have a life absent TV! Most of us are better educated than that middle group! We are of a generation when education was valued and hard to get! It’s that middle group who found themselves caught in the fantasy world of pretending to be rich, while corporate manipulated them into close to poverty.

And once again, I need to point out there is no such thing as “Socialism IS fascism”! The two are mutually exclusive. Otherwise Corporate, who funds and encourages the madness demonstrated by the confused “twelthers” would have no need to encourage attacking Socialism as the enemy, would they?

(From the writings of Benito Mussolini)
Fascism is the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of Socialism, seeks to destroy Democracy and elevate a solid Republic based on a political and economic system that combines nationalism, anti-communism, anti-capitalism, anti-labor union and anti-liberalism into a state that binds all classes together under a CORPORATIST system.

Interviews indicate some demonstraters aren’t quite sure what exactly they are demonstrating against. But I think they all had a good time yelling at each other. Which in my mind only proves how easy it is to lead the trapped into making fools of themselves. Kinda sad actually.

By the way, kudos to the guy holding the mike. He was informed enough to inform so many uninformed.

How he managed to keep a straight face and not say my gosh you guys are ignorant is beyond my ability! But he did. smile

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By no mans land, September 16, 2009 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

Thomas Dooley:

Have you tried having a conversation with them? They won’t let you finish a sentence and they damn sure won’t be friendly to you if you challenge in any way their skewed perceptions of reality. For them, the country’s problems started in January. Everything before that has been conveniently forgotten or denied along with thier own blatant hypocrisy.

No, I’m afraid I can’t appease them any longer. When half the country believes that the other half actually wants to euthanize the elderly and begins talk of revolution and rebellion while showing up at presidential events armed like a swat team, I’d say it has gone well beyond mere “confusion.” No, there is very dangerous rhetoric being spun out there that must constantly increase its outlandish sensationalism in order to remain competitive for ratings. This kind of talk has preceded every ethnic or sectarian conflict in modern history.

While I agree that these people have been vicitimized and are most likely unable to articulate why or how, what we are seeing manifest must be confronted and challenged directly.

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By bogi666, September 16, 2009 at 9:17 am Link to this comment

tsivan, and your point is?

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By Thomas Dooley, September 16, 2009 at 9:07 am Link to this comment

What struck me while watching the clip was that I was looking regular working people who in years past would have been natural Democrats.

The rhetoric was nonsense, but the real constant in the interviews was a hatred towards liberals and Democrats. They have been betrayed by liberal Democrats. They know that much. It actually started under Jimmy Carter but came to fruition under Clinton as he shipped their jobs overseas under trade agreement like NAFTA while simultaneously kicking the safety net from under them by abolishing welfare and enacted policy after policy to their ruin.

What happened was the Democratic Party found it could match the Republican level of corporate funding by throwing the working class (and their own progressive left wing) under the bus. The Democratic Party turned corporatist just as you see it today. The problem is while liberals and Democrats turned corporatist they continued to claim that they speak for working people all the while raining devastation down on their jobs, their wages, smashing communities, undercutting their unions, cutting benefits, and leaving them with a shattered anxiety filled working life with insecure incomes and jobs and and even less of a future for their children.

It’s one thing to enact policies favorable to corporations and screwing over working people. Republicans do it all the time. It’s quite another to do it while claiming to speak for those very same people. We reserve a special hate for those who sidle up to us all smiles and good wishes making claims of deep friendship and then stab us in the back.

So, I don’t think their animus towards liberals and Democrats is misplaced. That part is on the mark. The implausible looney rhetoric is certainly crazy, but that indicates these people are being severely deceived by really cynical bastards who know better. These bastards are constructing a fantasy world where facts don’t matter but where what these people believe and want count for something. My guess is the fantasy is deliberately constructed to be unbelievably fantastic to elicit from the better informed among us exactly the type of incredulous scorn towards these folks that you see here. These cynical pricks know what they are doing and they know how smug liberals can be and the crap they are feeding these folks is designed to be a blatant invitation for us to engage in self-congratulatory smugness and attack the people they are deceiving.

I don’t think that making enemies out of a people who have been victimized by both corporate political parties and most especially coldly betrayed by the Democratic Party is the proper reaction. It is exactly what the smarmy cynical bastards who are endlessly using and deceiving these people want us to do. I think we ought to join these working folks. Not to “convert” them because at essence they are not wrong. They should be angry and so should we. We are all being screwed over by a corporatist class who have taken over every aspect of our society, political parties, and even our social life. We would bring more accurate and powerful information to the movement. Leaving these people, people who in years past would be natural Democrats, to the tender mercies of calculating double-dealing fakes who deceive and manipulate them for cynical purposes while we heap scorn on them isn’t the right thing to do. It doesn’t make sense and it isn’t right.

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By tsivan, September 16, 2009 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

it amazes me that the comments against the tea parties are so much MORE racist and ignorant than the cherry picked statements in this video.  Blindly following this unqualified socialist president, and voting for the largest spending bill in the history of this country is the travesty here, and the reason for the outrage.  How many ignorant people voted FOR barry based on the color of his skin?  Far more than those who voted AGAINST him for the same reason. 

To try to say that those against this ridiculous and outrageous spending are racist is simply ignorant.

The people of this country are NOT behind these policies, and until the left wing can start to listen to their constituents, and READ the bills before them, we are on a very dangerous path toward socialism, plain and simple.

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By no mans land, September 16, 2009 at 8:55 am Link to this comment

FOXNEWS is now officialy the #1 national security threat.

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By mcthorogood, September 16, 2009 at 8:39 am Link to this comment

Hmmm, interesting, I didn’t know that before ...

And you know this how?

“Deer Hunting with Jesus,” describes these people to a cue.

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By Rodger Lemonde, September 16, 2009 at 8:25 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

How do you tell the tea baggers from the douche
If they want their country back I say they should go
tell it to the Indigenous Americans their white
Christian ancestors stole it from in the first place.
It’s a shame when white bread and mayonnaise goes bad.

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By GW=MCHammered, September 16, 2009 at 8:21 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The United Mental Sates of Amurika:

The leap of excitability beyond sense ... straight into nonsense. Kudos to the rational and educated interviewer.

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By bogi666, September 16, 2009 at 6:46 am Link to this comment

CaptRon, it is the elderly who watch FOX news, those with the 6th grade level of educations and more likely to be racists. They are the Becklers. Beck is an alcoholic manic depressive, a sure recipe for psychosis. The alcoholic mind to be deceptive through lies and manipulation.Also, alcohol addiction destroys the pre frontal brain lobes and its pathways. This is the part of the brain which facilitates the human attributes of compassion and consciousness. These are the Becklers, who model their conduct after the psychotic Beck.

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By DBM, September 16, 2009 at 6:14 am Link to this comment

You just gotta laugh or you’d cry ... what a pathetic display. 

It doesn’t matter how many hours of tape this was cherry-picked from.  How incredibly embarrassing.

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By Jim Michie, September 16, 2009 at 5:30 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

All you white folks (yeah, I’m one too) out there, go back and view this video again, this collection of interviews of people who were on the mall on Saturday, September 12, 2009 with their ugly racist signs.  Now watch very closely and try to count those in the crowd who are not white.  No need for further comment.

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By jason, September 16, 2009 at 4:58 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

you guys have it all wrong.

ppl are pissed at the government and they have every right to be. trillions have been dolled out and corruption is rampant.

you should be supporting your fellow americans taking a stand. at least you should respect your neighbors.

but no. you want to be a lemming for your political party and attack them. how sad for you.

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By Howie Bledsoe, September 16, 2009 at 4:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Finding ignorant Americans to interview is like shooting fish in a barrel.

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By catlady628, September 16, 2009 at 1:18 am Link to this comment

Did these “Beckers” know that their hero didn’t even show up for his own tea party? And if that loon ever had a logical thought in his life, it must have died of loneliness.

Where were these people when the Bush administration was lying us into a war and a trillion dollar deficit?

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By Gmonst, September 16, 2009 at 12:48 am Link to this comment

For the positive ray of light, it at least seemed that there could be a change in these people when they actually engage in dialog with someone who is informed.  Unfortunately, it takes trickery to get them in that position.  I think that Obama exposes a lot of latent racism for many people in this country. Blatant racist rhetoric is no longer acceptable in our society, and I think most of these people would not consider themselves racist.  Yet Obama makes them feel uncomfortable, the skin color and the name.  Rather than examine that discomfort they grasp at anything to give it justification, no matter how illogical.  They look no deeper at the issues to find the truth, because deep inside they know the discomfort stems from something else.  They aren’t interested in truth but in giving a justification for their fears.  Hosts such as Beck, play to this fear, comfort it, justify it and give boogie-men for it to target.  Fortunately, they really only represent a small percentage of The United States.  We don’t need their support for things to progress.  Unfortunately Democrats are by and large sucked in and manipulated by the same corporate forces that seek to manipulate those scared masses, and progress looks unlikely.

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By L. Byron, September 15, 2009 at 11:57 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is a scary country.  Seriously.  Any country where a pair of irresponsible demagogues like John McCain and Sarah Palin get 47% of the vote is a scary country.  Ignorance, fear, xenophobia, racism, and irrationality reign. Just listen to these people, when they are asked about what it is specifically they are protesting against, they have no answer.  They are so galvanized by right-wing propaganda that they can’t see beyond their noses.

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By rollzone, September 15, 2009 at 11:49 pm Link to this comment

hello. i’m ignorantly bliss about the D.C. parade. i am glad they had a good, peaceful, mile-long celebration of freedom. even extreme idiots, mere puppet slaves of global corporatists- can peaceably assemble without violence, rioting, destruction of private property. undeniably this is the soul of America, and this small segment of America assembled, to peacefully state: something is wrong in Washington. instigators recently pricked the people of Iran to violence, when they disagreed with their government; but this time they were absent here. there were no infiltrators from the opposition starting violent acts, no call for the riot police. just Americans, marching together, because something has been going wrong for too long now, and it has to stop. our government has stopped being for the people. everyone has a list of government failings- and to make it all worse- they keep taking more of our money. jobs being exported, border insecurity, a legal moral decline of our society, our education system, God being blasphemed, our highways and bridges neglected, veterans disrespected, unaccountable czars multiplying, deficit spending, every body’s list seems endless- yet it takes 3/4 of a year’s labor to pay our taxes. Americans have heard enough spin doctors, and brain farters; to know: politicians are going to do, and say, whatever they have to, so they can get what they want, and when they get it: the American people will be paying for nothing on their list. the government is no longer for the people, and that huge peaceful march is saying this had better stop. if the sitting government will not listen to the people, they better put their resumes in order, and be sure not to mention about their failure to represent the people of America. all the patriots whom were able to march on Washington, know a thousand citizens stand behind every one. the next election may begin with a pledge of allegiance, not just to the flag; but to the people of these United States of America…

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By CaptRon, September 15, 2009 at 11:03 pm Link to this comment

What I can’t grasp is the Senior age people with this group. I would like to think they spent a life of street education anyway which should allow them the ability to recognize the idiots they have paired up with. They must have the means to afford the care they will need considering their physical stature being in worse shape than their mental capacity, OR they were paid to be there and I’m sure nowhere near what they will require to supplant the cost of medical care be it mental or physical. My, My, AARP needs to find ways to reach these people.

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By Bretzky, September 15, 2009 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I understand the less Govt spending from the teabaggers…what I don’t get is that they don’t understand that backing the Insurance Companies that want to kill health care reform and Big Oil companies that want us to be at war…they themselves are the Nazi like fascists. True American Fucktards!

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By 911truthdotorg, September 15, 2009 at 8:48 pm Link to this comment

Absolutely hilarious and sad at the same time because the inbreeds have no clue they’re being mocked horribly.

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By ocjim, September 15, 2009 at 8:20 pm Link to this comment

As with all propaganda campaigns, there must be media forums to spread the message.

The corporate media is either owned or used by these special interests and money flows to the right-wing message on all levels: news reports, government reports during the Bush regime, books, leaflets, movies, radio, television, the internet and posters. Pet networks like Fox have large audiences built by past apartheid Republican and right-wing policies.

We can all identify most of the propaganda techniques used over the years, techniques based on social psychological research and devised and implemented through right-wing think tanks.

The most common, especially when the propagandist has no viable stand on issues or not interested in debate, is to attack your opponent, as opposed to attacking his arguments.

Witness last Saturday’s target of the 9/12 project in Washington DC. It primarily attacked Obama with name-calling or racist visages on placards.

The issues specified were at best non-specific scatter-shots, if not a cover for character attacks.

Incongruent signs suggested that fascism and socialism are the same thing. Some saw abortion as leading to 9/11. Others idealized Glenn Beck, a hired character assassin for Fox News, as a logical thinker.

If the Republicans come back into power, we will be noticeably closer to a plutocracy with a proto-fascist leadership.

Many can build a case that we are already there, but actually we have a chance to throw off the shackles of fat cat vested interests, though the tranformation of power and ownership was almost complete under Bush.

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By Jean Gerard, September 15, 2009 at 8:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This video is downright amazing.  We ought to search out the elementary and high school teachers of these folks and ask them what in the world they were doing when these people were kids in their classrooms. Come to think of it, though, I was working my first job in Indiana when Hitler’s voice came screeching out of a radio.  “You don’t know who that is?” said my boss, in utter amazement.  “Jean, you are downright ignorant!  You need to read some books!”  I have thanked him ever since, for he was right, and he changed my entire life.  So there’s hope.

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By MarthaA, September 15, 2009 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

An Excerpt From

‘The Spectacle of Illiteracy and the Crisis of Democracy’

by: Henry A. Giroux

Tuesday 15 September 2009

“Authoritarianism is often abetted by an inability of the public to grasp how questions of power, politics and history and public consciousness are mediated at the interface of private issues and public concerns. The ability to translate private problems into social considerations is fundamental to what it means to reactivate political sensibilities and conceive of ourselves as critical citizens, engaged public intellectuals and social agents. Just as an obsession with the private is at odds with a politics informed by public consciousness, it also burdens politics by stripping it of the kind of political imagination and collective vision necessary for a viable notion of meaning, hope and political agency. Civic literacy is about more than enlarging the realm of critique and affirming the social; it is also about public responsibility, the struggle over democratic public life and the importance of critical education in a democratic society. The US government is more than willing to invest billions in wars, lead the world in arms sales and give trillions in tax cuts to the ultra rich, but barely acknowledges the need to invest in those educational and civic institutions - from schools to the arts - that enable individuals to be border crossers, capable of connecting the private and the public as part of a more vibrant understanding of politics, identity, agency and governance. The new illiteracy is not the cause of our problems, which are deeply rooted in larger social, economic and political forces that have marked the emergence of the corporate state, a deadly form of racism parading as color blindness and a ruthless market fundamentalism since the 1970s, but it is a precondition for locking individuals into a system in which they are complicitous in their own exploitation, disposability and potential death. The new illiteracy is about more than learning how to read the book or the word; it is about learning how not to read the world. It is a problem as serious as any we have ever faced in the United States. At the core of any viable Democratic politics is the ability to question the basic assumptions central to an imagined democracy. This is not merely a political issue, but an educational issue, one that points to the need for modes of civic education that provide the knowledge and competencies, for young and old alike, to raise important questions about what education and literacy itself should accomplish in a democracy. This is not an issue we can ignore too much longer.”

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