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Bill Maher: ‘Democrats Are the New Republicans’

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Posted on Jun 21, 2009
Bill Maher

Last week Bill Maher took on the president. This week, the “Real Time” host accuses the Democrats of selling out their principles to hedge funds and polluters: ” ... over the last 30-odd years, Democrats have moved to the right and the right has moved into a mental hospital.”

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By Edward Stewart, June 30, 2009 at 11:15 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I don’t have a web site,maybe I need one.I am A 48 year old male,who unlike most of the press actualy served in the military.I agree with these peaple that government must be transparent,I also agree that what we put in our bodies is our own buisness.I disagree when the press start,s telling the peaple what we should think.Yes I know I misspelled peaple.But to the powers that be ,that is what we are,pea ple.Bill Maher is a joke and he knows it,everybody likes a paycheck.The press overall is bought and bought again.There is no free press in this country anymore,so we’re stuck with product endorser,democrat or Republican.It wont change until (we the people,endowed with certain enaliable rights) decide to change it.I lost my job because the government decided they needed to know who was working on vehicles that transport our chemicals from port to port,I am not a terrorist,never have been,but I draw the line when the government decides it needs more information about me than it does about Obama.Its called a TWIX card,It has security measures which can Identify which port your in,and if necasary can find you whereever your at,GPS electronic survelance.We let this happen,its up to us to stop it.We are american citizens,the government is not allowed by the constitution to place these kind of restrictions on us.We are alowed by the constitusion to pursue our dreams freely.That means we are allowed to work for whom ever we wont without government interference.Obama should be removed from office because he finally acomplisd what the fouding fathers envisioned for the post of President,a figurehead,an embassador to the world.

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By MarthaA, June 28, 2009 at 3:49 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

And your point?

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By KDelphi, June 28, 2009 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment

I think Forrest Gump said, “stupid is as stupid does…”

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By MarthaA, June 28, 2009 at 2:51 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

Well, all I have to say about that, is to paraphrase Forest Gump, “Sophistry is as Sophistry does.”  What can I say?

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By MarthaA, June 28, 2009 at 1:55 pm Link to this comment

Russian Paul,

You said, “Never before has the Democratic party stood for the 70% population you keep going on about, they have ALWAYS been tied to corporate interests, ALWAYS.”

This is true, but it is also irrelevant to what I am saying.  What I am saying is that because the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION is not being represented, that a multi-party political system would more effectively provide for their representation in the promulgation and enforcement of law and order that is in the best interest of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION.

You said, “If opposition candidates do join together with “institutionalized” parties, they tend to get their policy ideas watered down to nothing and nothing gets done.”

The problem of an institutionalized political party representative of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION being watered down can be dealt with effectively by the limitation of membership to the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION.

You said, “Your dream of replacing all Democrats with Dennis Kuciniches is just not practical. You really seem to believe that at one point in time, the Democratic party was progressive or represented the people’s interests when IT NEVER HAS.”

This may be your assumption and your dream, but not my dream.  My dream is representation of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION in the Congress and government of the United States and a multi-party political system that will allow a party that represents the 70% majority common population to stand shoulder to shoulder with the Democrats and the Republicans in the Congress and government of the United States, so that law and order can be promulgated and enforced that is in the best interest of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States.

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By KDelphi, June 28, 2009 at 11:45 am Link to this comment

Gawd, Martha..yes, you got me pegged. Exactly.

You are the biggest Dem Party schill I have ever run into on this site.

I am trying to figure out what it is you get out of it—a sense of “solidarity”? a feeling of belonging? Are you a delegate? what is it? fear of GOP?

Acting out of fear usually brings a bad result. As evidenced by Dems since the 90s and before.

People want something better. People like you just sell fear of GOP.

Is this the first time you have heard the word “sophist” or something?? You seem utterly obsessed with it—but not as obsessed as you are with “reforming the Dem Party”—good luck on that one! lol

Here is Zinn on attempts to change the govt by “voting”

http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/13/howard_zinn_i_wish_obama_would

But, as far as it goes, I disagre with Zinn that we can now “pull Obama to the Left”. He is truly corporate.

“.. But he found that the so-called liberals were not as liberal as people thought—and that the difference between the liberals and the conservatives, and between Republicans and Democrats, was not a polar difference. There was a common thread that ran through all American history, and all of the presidents—Republican, Democrat, liberal, conservative—followed this thread.

The thread consisted of two elements: one, nationalism; and two, capitalism. And Obama is not yet free of that powerful double heritage…”

http://www.progressive.org/zinn0509.html

I think that Zinn (whom I admire) and others are still enthralled by our “first Af Am president” (who , they assume MUST be “liberal”—but he’s not), and, considering who they have to compare him to, (Bush & Co) they think he can be persuaded.

I simply dont. You can keep telling me who you think I am, although you have no idea,but it will not change the fact that the Dems have sold the Left down the river for campaign money. Period.

Pray that Obama goes against Gingrich or some othre total as*hole, so he’ll still look good by comparison. For my part, I cannot , by conscience, ever work to elect a Democrat again. I may vote for them for Congess, if they are progressive (only a few). But, I will never waste another campaign season, nor vote , on a Dem president.

The fact that I will not back a GOP goes without saying..I’ve said it over and over but you just dont seem to comprehend what you read…if you read it.

I only have two conditions, ok? Please answer without using the “70% common p[opulation” phrase or the word “sophistry” or any root of it..get creative!Who knows , you may yourself thinking some new thoughts!

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By MarthaA, June 28, 2009 at 10:32 am Link to this comment

KDelphi,

Sure, sure.  If you have read Howard Zinn’s book, then the fact that you don’t get anything has to be because you are a Repug sophist trying to destroy the Democratic Party or you would see that the Democratic Party needs reforming, not destruction;through which, after the reformation, the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION can pursue getting a separate political party institutionalized strictly to represent the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, the many; that are not getting any representation in Congress of the United States.

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By KDelphi, June 27, 2009 at 11:40 pm Link to this comment

Martha, what are you talking about??

I have read Zinn (I read him at The Progerssive every month) and he is highly critifcal of Dems.

Obama should read A Peoples’ History, because he doesnt seem to get it. Neither do you.

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By MarthaA, June 27, 2009 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

My truth for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION conflicts with the Democratic Party’s truth for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION.  The DLC New Democrats and Blue Dogs 20% minority Professional Middle Class conservatives/moderates of the Democratic Party that toady to the Republicans are still in charge.

If the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States can wrest medical out of private insurance and private pharmaceutical’s hands it will be a miracle, because corporate DLC New Democrat and Blue Dogs are looking to make money for corporations off the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, instead of provide medical care.

The effort is to achieve true representation by the Democratic Party that is inclusive of both the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION and the 20% minority Professional Middle Class, not just a truth that is exclusively for the 20% minority of the Professional Middle Class, which is the truth that currently exists in the Democratic Party.

Everyone should read Howard Zinn’s book “A People’s History of the United States”; Alexander Hamilton states the aristocracy’s political philosophy:

“All communities divide themselves into the few and the many.  The first are the rich and well-born, the other the mass of the people.  The voice of the people has been said to be the voice of God; and however generally this maxim has been quoted and believed, it is not true in fact.  The people are turbulent and changing; they seldom judge or determine right.  Give therefore to the first class a distinct permanent share in the government…... Can a democratic assembly who annually revolve in the mass of the people be supposed steadily to pursue the public good?  Nothing but a permanent body can check the imprudence of democracy…”

And another aristocrat, James “Madison’s argument can be seen as a sensible argument for having a government which can maintain peace and avoid continuous disorder between two equally matched fighters?”

Two equally matched fighters until the conservative Republicans camouflaged themselves and infested the Democratic Party separating the common population by becoming the New Class, the New Democrats, the 20% Professional Middle Class toadies to the American aristocracy, the Republicans.

For the government of the American Aristocracy and the Professional Middle Class to deny the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION of the United States a political party and a seat at the table of government to make and enforce laws that serve the best interest of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION as a class and culture, is “taxation without representation,” and is the reason why America went to war with Britain; the justification was valid then for the British Colonists, and when awareness of the masses that are disenfranchised in the United States at the present time is sufficient for a mass revolt, the justification will be equally valid for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION; if a political party and a seat at the table of government to make and enforce law and order in the best interest of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION is denied by the ruling classes and cultures of the combined 30% minority population of the American Aristocracy and the Professional Middle Class.

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By christian96, June 27, 2009 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi——We are screwed unless all out revolution
takes place.  That will be ugly.  The revolutionists
will be looking down the barrels of the Pentagon.
The people in control of America have the President
and Congress as their puppets and sadly the President
and Congress have control of the Pentagon. That’s it
in a nutshell.

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By KDelphi, June 27, 2009 at 3:05 pm Link to this comment

MarthA—it seems more like berries, to me.

I had some raspberries the other day, they were on sale. But, I kept them in the frig for about 2 days and forgot about them…by the time I got to them, one was moldy and it made the whole carton just not worth it. So I threw tham all out.

Will make you sick, you know.Thats what the Dems do—-they make me sick.

Sometimes you just have to kill off the whole herd, like mad cow ...some just cant break out of the herd mentality, like sheeples.
Maybe this latest round of Democratic Party watered down horrible legislation will make the people force both parties to accept that we will not tolerate this anymore…if not, our country is probably screwed…

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By MarthaA, June 27, 2009 at 3:02 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

Most likely in the absence of understanding you stated sophistry.  Sophistry is a truth.  Your use of the word caused me to recognize the truth of sophistry in your posts and others posts on this blog.  I caught your word and realized that “you” are using sophistry, like “confidence without merit”, when you blurted out “your” truth to accuse me, but you are the sophist, sophistry is yours, since people only know what’s in their own devious minds. Fools, without understanding, do blurt out truths about themselves and that is what you have done.  Now you are apologizing to your fellow sophists because you let “your” truth out of the bag.

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By KDelphi, June 27, 2009 at 2:17 pm Link to this comment

When a sophist uses a specious argument, they become a martyr for the Denm Party, MarthaA and they start to sound like they will doggedly follow them anywhere…sound familiar?

Now use “specious” 12 times in a paragraph. Then you can go play at the Democratic party website again.

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By MarthaA, June 27, 2009 at 2:15 pm Link to this comment

truedigger3,

I am for legitimate representation of the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, that’s all.  For the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, Obama was the best choice available; REPUBLICANS aren’t a choice at all; we have a barrel of apples to cull, and what the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION need to all figure out is how to cull the barrel of rotten apples; rather than quibble over partisan and non-partisan.  BTW, the barrel is the Democratic Party.

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By MarthaA, June 27, 2009 at 1:33 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

So. Being accused of sophistry by a sophist is irrelevant.

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By KDelphi, June 25, 2009 at 9:50 am Link to this comment

Gawd, I never should have used the word sophist with MarthA—sigh—sorry, guys…now, everybody’s a “sophist”...

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By Russian Paul, June 25, 2009 at 7:11 am Link to this comment

Looks like you’re a Republican sophist, as well. Love to run the President down, do you?

On foreign policy:  Obama gave a well thought out speech in Egypt…

For chrissakes, what has Obama actually done minus the speeches, the “symbolic gestures,” or the soaring rhetoric? He says one thing to appease people like you and Outraged and then in practice, does THE EXACT OPPOSITE. I support neither one of the two corporate parties. You can’t even call the Dems the “lesser of two evils” anymore, Obama is on the exact same track as Bush was.

Outraged -

He hasn’t invaded Iran

Oh how enormously generous he is!

he is working (along with many others) to solve healthcare problems{/i]

That’s a joke right? He has taken single payer off the table and left us with a watered down “public option” that keeps insurance companies running the show. He has a huge approval rating, he has the house, the senate, he is immensely popular, he could push for it if he had the balls.

he released several of the detainees, he at least has a timetable for getting out of Iraq (yes, I know we’ll never be totally out)

Damn right we won’t be totally out, he is only helping to ensure that. And he is expanding the wars in Afghanistan/Pakistan in such a way to ensure we will be there for over 2 of his terms, should he be re=elected. And conditions under Guantanamo have WORSENED, conditions at Bagram have WORSENED, and these are the detention facilities we know about.

His idea of financial regulation is superficial and his environmental record is horrendous. He signs a few bills to appease the general public, it’s like sticking a few flowers in a turd, he hasn’t done anything of any significance. For someone who didn’t even vote for the guy, your lack of skepticism is very odd.

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By truedigger3, June 25, 2009 at 2:21 am Link to this comment

MarthaA,

You are so partisan that you cann’t see anything else. You are so infatuated by “Saint Obama”.
Most of us here are not partisan.
You remind me with Louise who used to blog here.

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By blogdog, June 25, 2009 at 1:49 am Link to this comment

RE: are you the chronic cry baby?  Buck up.

who’s crying? most here rarely share what they do in real life - few have the guts - I do - http://www.thefall01.info/ - especially in response to a smackdown - wanna take another wack? - roll the film,  then smack me down again - I couldn’t care less - my work gets grilled by professional critics - young fella, your smackdown’s nothing compared to what pros can deliver,  and I’m too old to care anymore - so take another wack - common, do it!

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By Outraged, June 25, 2009 at 1:13 am Link to this comment

Well…. blogdog.  If wishes were fuckin’ HORSES, then beggars would ride.  You are talkin’ out of your ass.

Did you really think/believe/perceive that these things could be turned around on the flip of a coin…?!  Get your game on, THINK.  Use your head, do you know what we’re up against here, or are you the chronic cry baby?  Buck up.

Really….. you whine more than you make sense.

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By blogdog, June 25, 2009 at 12:10 am Link to this comment

OK,  MarthaA, you’ve provoked me. Here are a few positive suggestions. Do they sound “republican?”

1. shut down all US military bases abroad

2. re-direct 90% of military funding to a national health insurance program, education and the arts and convert military research to focus on next-generation energy solutions

3. investigate, prosecute and incarcerate criminal financiers

4. launch a transparent 911 truth commission

5. cut off the banker bailouts and redirect funds to rebuilding infrastructure, especially transnational high-speed rail

I dare your POTUS Messiah to approach any of these - and I know he dare not - being Der Schwarze Kennedy, he knows that should he dare to do so, a Kennedy fate awaits - since that fateful day in Dallas, control of the US Gov. has been a rolling coup d’état - without acknowledging this, the sophistry you practice is specious at best though more likely spurious in intent.

The more you promote the Left/Right schism, the more you sound like an asset charged with just such a mission: maintain the distraction. So, is your cover blown, time to phone in for a new assignment?

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By Paracelsus, June 24, 2009 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment

@ MarthaA

On foreign policy:  Obama gave a well thought out speech in Egypt that far surpassed any foreign policy the Republicans have done in the past 8 years of the Bush administration, and possibly have ever done as a whole, since the Republicans always choose to finance the United States economy with death and destruction.

Senator Gramm could have gotten his financial scheme going without Clinton. As to foreign policy, I am disgusted with Obama’s covering for the 911 conspiracy. That was in the Egypt speech. Quote: “There are those who question 9-11 or who even justify it.” Then he goes on saying it is not opinion; it is fact that Al-CIA-Da made those buildings go down. Obama is slime, utter cesspool scum.

I actually feel safer with Obama as President than I ever did when Bush was president, as President Obama doesn’t preach fear and destruction coming on us at any moment.  Except for propaganda purposes, I could never see the point of having the citizenry in fear all the time.

I don’t feel that safe. Obama’s mad genius, Zebigniew Brzezinski is busily organizing fellows from the South Korean military to do policy research with him. You can see for yourself at the web site for The Center for Strategic [Buggery] and International [Herd Management] Studies. The evil doctor has LTC’s, lieutenant colonels, from all over the world visiting his center. A good many LTC’s and other military officers come from the American military. What are they doing at that evil polack’s coven?

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By Outraged, June 24, 2009 at 8:50 pm Link to this comment

Re: Russian Paul

He hasn’t invaded Iran, he is working (along with many others) to solve healthcare problems, he released several of the detainees, he at least has a timetable for getting out of Iraq (yes, I know we’ll never be totally out), he is attempting to regulate financial intruments through the Consumer Financial Protection Agency, implemented the electronic records program for health care, allocated $2 billion in stimulus cash for advanced batteries systems, gave a $2500 tax credit toward education expenses, signed the Lily Ledbetter Act, signed SCHIP, signed the Omnibus Public Land Mgt. Act….and a whole bunch of other stuff.

You, seem to want to ignore everything he HAS done and focus only upon what he hasn’t.  Obama is NOT the only person in Washington.  As I said, I disagree with several of Obama’s positions, however, to outright claim he hasn’t done a thing is without merit.  It simply is.

He hasn’t been sworn in for 6 months yet, I think he and several others are doing well.  I’m impressed.

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By MarthaA, June 24, 2009 at 8:46 pm Link to this comment

blogdog,

It appears you are also a Republican sophist.  If you haven’t anything constructive to say, why do you talk. Running the President of the United States down is far from being constructive and that is all that you ever do.  Anybody can always find something to run somebody down about, but it takes a real man/woman to constructively build for a better tomorrow, not sophist toadies, which seem to have permeated this blog. There are just as many things one can find to say good about anything as there are bad, one has to chose whether the cup is half full or half empty, and apparently you have chosen your cup to be half empty.

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By MarthaA, June 24, 2009 at 8:34 pm Link to this comment

blogdog,

It appears you are also a Republican sophist.  If you haven’t anything constructive to say, why do you talk. Running the President down is far from being constructive and that is all that you ever do.  Anybody can always find something to run somebody down about, but it takes a real man/woman to constructively build for a better tomorrow, not sophist toadies, which seem to have permeated this blog. There are just as many things one can find to say good about anything as there are bad, one has to chose whether the cup is half full or half empty, and apparently you have chosen your cup to be half empty.

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By MarthaA, June 24, 2009 at 8:10 pm Link to this comment

Russian Paul,

Looks like you’re a Republican sophist, as well. Love to run the President down, do you?

On foreign policy:  Obama gave a well thought out speech in Egypt that far surpassed any foreign policy the Republicans have done in the past 8 years of the Bush administration, and possibly have ever done as a whole, since the Republicans always choose to finance the United States economy with death and destruction.

I actually feel safer with Obama as President than I ever did when Bush was president, as President Obama doesn’t preach fear and destruction coming on us at any moment.  Except for propaganda purposes, I could never see the point of having the citizenry in fear all the time.

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By Russian Paul, June 24, 2009 at 7:01 pm Link to this comment

Outraged - So You seem to be bending backwards to defend Obama, why? You can’t name one progressive thing he’s done in terms of foreign policy. Why are you mincing words trying to defend a man continuing Bush’s imperialist empire? Your last response really doesn’t make any sense. How in the hell is Obama on our side, except superficially and in press conferences and stupid “gestures?” What the hell has he done for us?

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By blogdog, June 24, 2009 at 5:53 pm Link to this comment

The Obama deception is so obvious it’s painful - he plays the L vs R canard to the max, taking on fools like Limbaugh and old drunks like Cheney and getting himself painted red from the right - surprise - your neo-socialist puts up window dressing for the masses while shoveling boat loads of your cash to the bankers, who are not lending it to founder industries (e.g. auto makers) but rather re-inflating their derivatives bubble - whew, get a clue folks - Der Schwartze Kennedy is a wholly owned asset of the global finance oligarchy - parse the minutia of his daily pandering and theatre if you like - it all leads back to Wall Street and City of London.

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By KDelphi, June 24, 2009 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment

Paracelsus—I am somewhat familiar with TAO’s posts, and a website he gave once. There is certainly something to it. You dont have his website, do you? I lost it when my pc last crashed (about once a wk)

BTW—Obama is on someone’s “side” but it is certainly not the average person in the US. There is not one policy that the Dem Party can point to, since they took control of House Senmate and Exec that has not been watered down by those corporate monkies he hired.


He is so popular, although I dont get it, that, if he declared himself King for Life, the press would follow. But, he refuses to do anything but this milquetoast “reform” that often makes things worse for the avg person—but always protects the rich and corporate inteerrests.

Obama is ,sadly, very corporate. The whole Dem party is , with a couple of exceptions—just a couple.

But—I didnt vote for either party and never will again. If I dont have money to contribute, they dont care if I do!

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By Outraged, June 24, 2009 at 5:34 pm Link to this comment

Re: truedigger

“So Obama is trying to do good and everyone is hindering him that include the congress and his staff etc etc. and they are all hiding their schemes from him and he is sooo innocent and well intentioned.”

That’s really not what I said.  I said, “Pres. Obama may not be perfect, but he is trying to improve things.  Everything cannot be done at once, it’ll take some time, BUT…. SO FAR SO GOOD.”  I also don’t think ALL of congress, nor ALL of Obama’s staff is crooked.  I do think some of them are, and they are fighting hard, again…. look at Baccus, he won’t even allow ALL voices to be heard.  I do think Pres. Obama at least attempts to hear us, and I don’t think he’s the only one.

You keep attempting to paint this whole thing with one broad stroke, but some things are not ALL things.  We have to deal with what we DO HAVE.

Re: Russian Paul:

Can you give one example of his foreign policy differing from Bush’s? Not including rhetoric, speeches, and “symbolic gestures,” but actual progressive actions?”

Again, Pres. Obama ran as a populist, and I did not vote for him.  I supported Kucinich, when Kucinich dropped out, even he said to put the votes behind Obama.  I supported Obama for much of the campaign, until he took stances I could not support, at that point I switched again and endorsed and voted for Nader.

I didn’t hate Obama then, and I don’t hate Obama now.  If progressives voted for Obama and many did but are angry now, you can’t blame Obama.  Yes, we were between a rock and a hard place and they felt it was the best option.  I can certainly understand that, and I don’t blame the voters…!!!  We have a messed up system, that’s for sure.  Personally, I feel Obama is doing better than I had expected.  But he isn’t the only one out there, many others are working hard to effect change.

From my earlier post: “Obama said he would get out of Iraq and go into Pakistan, he is doing this.  I disagree vehemently with him about the wars but he never said he was going to get out of the ME.  That’s why I voted for Nader, but even still…. maybe we can change his mind.”

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By Russian Paul, June 24, 2009 at 4:56 pm Link to this comment

...Pres. Obama may not be perfect, but he is trying to improve things.  Everything cannot be done at once, it’ll take some time, BUT…. SO FAR SO GOOD… 

...Pres. Obama is ON OUR SIDE…

And what evidence is there of that? Can you give one example of his foreign policy differing from Bush’s? Not including rhetoric, speeches, and “symbolic gestures,” but actual progressive actions?

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By truedigger3, June 24, 2009 at 3:32 pm Link to this comment

Outraged,

So Obama is trying to do good and everyone is hindering him that include the congress and his staff etc etc. and they are all hiding their schemes from him and he is sooo innocent and well intentioned.
Well, thank you for a good laugh. I needed that.

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By Paracelsus, June 24, 2009 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

Paracelsus—thanks for the cogent answer. Maybe I have said to you that I am a Socialist, but, I am very unhappy with our c urrent neo-liberal govt (almost as bad as neo-con) and I am looking into other ideas. I disagree with some “libertarian” ideas, but, there is hardly any affiliation I agree with completely.

I suppose you can understand some of my thinking by looking up Tao-walker. I feel that humanity needs to be as self reliant as possible, or it will resemble the ways of domesticated cattle. If we keep our wild man instincts intact we will less likely be victimized by tyranny. It is hard to oppress an independent man.

As corporations are fictional creatures chartered for the public good, they ought to be more easily censured by public referendums. That’s why I loathe the OC of Delaware. By Delaware law, a corporation can only lose its charter by the Delaware legislature, not by public referendum. A rights culture is threatened by such amalgamations of power.

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By Paracelsus, June 24, 2009 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment

@ Outraged

Anytime a politician is assassinated, and I consider Wellstone was murdered, it is because he was principled. He would not follow the agenda. It may interest you to know that John Heinz and John Tower were on investigative committees to look in on the Iran-Contra mess, and other dealings of Reagan-Bush. They were murdered by controlled explosive crashes of their airplanes. There are a number of Democratic and Republican politicians who have been murdered for either not being obedient or too curious. Their murders may look like automobile crashes or airplane collisions or even heart attacks. Our government is run by a criminal elite who make Murder, Inc. look like pikers. So no I cannot be convinced Obama is not a frontman/criminal for a bunch of perpetrators, a good many who enjoy pedophilia by the way. If you truly knew Obama you would find him morally disgusting.

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By Paracelsus, June 24, 2009 at 2:13 pm Link to this comment

These crooks are trying to steal our seat (and this may not be the first time), and they’re spending a lot of money to do it.  THEY are flat out scamming the system.  These same extremists are running around blaming THEIR MESS on Pres. Obama!  Now… Pres. Obama may not be perfect, but he is trying to improve things.  Everything cannot be done at once, it’ll take some time, BUT…. SO FAR SO GOOD.  Yet, before Pres. Obama was sworn in, they’ve been on the attack, I’M NOT GOING to help the sleazy pricks.

Pres. Obama is ON OUR SIDE, hands-down and that’s why they attack him, they HATE him for it.  They see it, I see it, I don’t see how you can’t see it.

All these presidents since Kennedy have led wrecking crews. I’ll leave you with a quote:

  The argument that the two parties should represent opposed ideals and policies, one, perhaps, of the Right and the other of the Left, is a foolish idea acceptable only to the doctrinaire and academic thinkers. Instead, the two parties should be almost identical, so that the American people can “throw the rascals out” at any election without leading to any profound or extreme shifts in policy.

  - Carrol Quigley, Tragedy and Hope

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By KDelphi, June 24, 2009 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA—Boy, that word—sophistry—really hit a nerve! You used it 12 times! Is that what you do to remember a definition after you look it up?

I have told you many times what party affiliation I am, and, sometimes I even disagree with MY party. But, at least I am not a Dem Party sheeple.

They really should be paying you , MarthA, ThomasG. But, they do love those volunteers! It got Obama elected, you know!

Paracelsus—thanks for the cogent answer. Maybe I have said to you that I am a Socialist, but, I am very unhappy with our c urrent neo-liberal govt (almost as bad as neo-con) and I am looking into other ideas. I disagree with some “libertarian” ideas, but, there is hardly any affilitation I agree with completely.

MarthA, you see i’m kindve “open” that way. You should try it sometime.

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By Outraged, June 24, 2009 at 1:59 pm Link to this comment

Re: Paracelsus

“Obama is just another wrecking crew team member. I think he gets his orders from his bull boy, Rahm Emanuel. I don’t know why you repose such hope in him.”

I don’t think Pres. Obama is a “wrecking crew member”.  I take many different things into consideration when I look at the situation.  Look, we have these same extremists holding OUR senate seat in MN.  This is pure dirtball.  Coleman “won” Wellstone’s seat after he died in a plane crash, personally I doubt the crash was accidental given the way these extremists operate.

“In another sign of the high stakes in Minnesota’s disputed U.S. Senate election, Republicans are giving big donations to a national fundraising organization to help Norm Coleman fight to reclaim his seat.

The National Republican Senatorial Committee spent nearly $938,000 in May to help Coleman, with most of it going to pay legal bills to firms in Minneapolis and Washington.

The organization’s Democratic counterpart, the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee, reported raising more than $282,000 in May contributions earmarked for the recount.”
http://www.startribune.com/politics/national/senate/48947301.html?elr=KArks7PYDiaK7DUdcOy_nc:DKUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUU

AND THIS:
“But, Cornyn said, Coleman could potentially appeal to the Supreme Court: “The justice that’s responsible for that area—I think it’s Justice Alito—could issue a stay in the issuance of the election certificate, and it could be referred to the entire court.”

“I say all this as ‘could,’” said Cornyn, “not as ‘will or should.’”
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/06/cornyn-promises-continued-support-for-coleman.php

Cornyn is scum.

AND THIS:
“Just days before the November election, Paul McKim filed an incendiary lawsuit against longtime Coleman patron Nasser Kazeminy in Harris County District Court. It accused Kazeminy and his business associates of financially sabotaging the company that McKim founded, Deep Marine Technology. It also accused Kazeminy of trying to funnel $100,000 to Coleman through a Minneapolis insurance firm where his wife worked.”
http://minnesotaindependent.com/37335/texas-firm-stonewalling-suit-against-coleman-lawyer-says

WSJ:
“A victory for Al Franken in the still-contested Minnesota U.S. Senate election could boost Democrats facing difficult votes over health-care reform and climate-change legislation later this year.

More than eight months after the election last November, the outcome of the Gopher State’s Senate race remains undetermined.

The Minnesota State Supreme Court is expected to decide whether Franken or Republican incumbent Sen. Norm Coleman won the Nov. 4, 2008 contest. According to the latest vote recount, Franken leads Coleman by 312 votes. Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., has declared Franken the winner.

A court ruling for Franken would give the Democratic party the all-important 60-seat supermajority in the U.S. Senate. Such a victory couldn’t come at a better time for Democrats.
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20090624-712355.html

These crooks are trying to steal our seat (and this may not be the first time), and they’re spending a lot of money to do it.  THEY are flat out scamming the system.  These same extremists are running around blaming THEIR MESS on Pres. Obama!  Now… Pres. Obama may not be perfect, but he is trying to improve things.  Everything cannot be done at once, it’ll take some time, BUT…. SO FAR SO GOOD.  Yet, before Pres. Obama was sworn in, they’ve been on the attack, I’M NOT GOING to help the sleazy pricks.

Pres. Obama is ON OUR SIDE, hands-down and that’s why they attack him, they HATE him for it.  They see it, I see it, I don’t see how you can’t see it.

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By Paracelsus, June 24, 2009 at 11:59 am Link to this comment

The country was in shambles at the end of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeldt regime, it only stands to reason that its going to take some time to straighten things out.  The extremists are working double time to trash EVERY SINGLE thing Obama attempts….. I don’t think we should give them (extremists) a helping hand.

Obama is just another wrecking crew team member. I think he gets his orders from his bull boy, Rahm Emanuel. I don’t know why you repose such hope in him.

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By Outraged, June 24, 2009 at 10:40 am Link to this comment

Re: truedigger3

Your comment: “I am not sure what do you exactly mean by “ill intent?”.
It is glaringly obvious, by his actions and the people he has chosen for his cabinet and his white house staff that he is a man for the continuation of the status quo and he is rolling on the same tracks W Bush was rolling on.
He says one thing and go around and does exactly the opposite, all that is camouflaged by skillful oratory”

Well, I don’t think it is “glaringly” obvious.  Personally, I think the BIGGER problem is our congress, and those bluedogs.  Yes, he did pick some I don’t like, Summers and Geithner…. especially so.

Maybe there was a reason for that though.  I tend to think, the “crooks in charge” weren’t going to have it any other way. If this is the case, it wouldn’t have mattered if Nader had won (remember where the country was about a year ago).  I don’t know.

Obama said he would get out of Iraq and go into Pakistan, he is doing this.  I disagree vehemently with him about the wars but he never said he was going to get out of the ME.  Thanks why I voted for Nader, but even still…. maybe we can change his mind.  He certainly seems willing to listen, and we can’t say that for our congress, look at PAID OFF Baccus….. he won’t even HEAR all sides.

The country was in shambles at the end of the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeldt regime, it only stands to reason that its going to take some time to straighten things out.  The extremists are working double time to trash EVERY SINGLE thing Obama attempts….. I don’t think we should give them (extremists) a helping hand.

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By MarthaA, June 24, 2009 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

blogdog,

I need to refer you my 6/24 12:24pm post I just entered on this thread to KDelphi. 

You are trying to get the subject off the politics of Republicans in the Democratic Party, because it matters not whether or not you respect Bill Maher as a person, what Bill Maher has placed on this blog deserves respect, because it is truth.

BTW, Having too many Republicans in the Democratic Party in no way makes the REPUBLICAN PARTY a better choice of the ONE-PARTY HYDRA, the REPUBLICAN PARTY will always be a worse choice for the 70% Majority Common Population, because the REPUBLICAN PARTY is the hydra’s main corporate brain.

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By MarthaA, June 24, 2009 at 9:26 am Link to this comment

KDelphi 6/22 7:15pm,

Sophistry, you say? Nearly missed it.

Sophist rhetoric is a logically presented fallacious argument that is intentionally used to deceive and lead others to a false conclusion.

The Middle Class cannot exist as a middle without being in the middle between two other classes and cultures, and the classes and cultures that the middle class is between, are the 10% minority of the American Aristocracy and the 70% Majority of the Common Population as a class and culture, and you say that these facts are sophistry;  How so?  Do you contend that the “middle class” is all middle, having no need to be between other classes and cultures?

Your accusation of sophistry sounds to me like you are a sophist shouting that I am guilty of sophistry in order to mask your own sophistry; otherwise, explain your use of the term sophistry.

Ever since Barry Goldwater, through Ronald Reagan, Bush I and II, sophist rhetoric has been used by the CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING EXTREMIST REPUBLICAN noise machine, and in the churches to lead the masses of the 70% Majority Common Population to false conclusions, so that they will vote for a CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING EXTREMIST REPUBLICAN AGENDA that is against their own best interest; and now, you would deny the very existence of the 70% Majority Common Population of the United States that brought the CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING EXTREMIST REPUBLICAN REVOLUTION to power, through the application of sophist propaganda; sounds to me like you are a sophist propagandist for the CONSERVATIVE RIGHT-WING EXTREMIST REPUBLICANS.  Are you a trained sophist, or a natural sophist, or inculcated to be a sophist by others to serve a purpose that is not your own?  It appears you are one or the other, otherwise, explain your actions absent the propaganda of sophist rhetoric.

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By Paracelsus, June 24, 2009 at 8:48 am Link to this comment

Peracelsus—so which forms of govt would meet your approval? None at all, like Somalia?

I only ask because I always wonder what libertarians have in mind, or anarchists.

I am not being rhetorical or facestious—I am really asking.

BTW—I am NOT happy with this govt nor the former Nazis nor USSR.

I am for government that does not tax wage income. I am for government that upholds civil liberties. I am not sure how far to go with libertarian government(I do believe in trade tariffs that support domestic industry.), but I do know that the way we are going is no paradise. I find that the more people are allowed to prosper the less they need relief. In that I am a nationalist, a localist. I would not want anyone to go hungry or homeless, but I have found that HUD has done more to destroy housing for the poor than support it. I don’t think a wartime economy with bubble money helps people afford homes. I think some regulation for pollution is necessary as has been established by common law for nuisance and harm.

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By edzile, June 24, 2009 at 8:32 am Link to this comment

I think it is too painful, too disturbing to look at Obama’s war record.  It is too mind shattering, fantasy destroying, intolerable - - I can’t handle it.

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By Paracelsus, June 24, 2009 at 8:24 am Link to this comment

@ Outraged

I have to go with edzile on this Obama. He is doing nothing put implementing a control grid for large corporations and banks.

You’ll be screaming if this carbon tax gets passed, and if we get national healthcare, we will be deluged with all kinds of laws for our safety. You’ll pay and pay for the privilege of eating a chocolate bar or smoke a cigar. Children will be gauzed with all kinds of knee pads, and head gear for their protection. We are headed toward the UK model of governance. I am not saying the old system wasn’t bad, but the new system will make you nostalgic. It always does.

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By edzile, June 24, 2009 at 8:12 am Link to this comment

Maher has no problem with Obama’s foreign policy - - in fact he thinks Obama is doing a good job in that area.  I suppose the only response to this would be sarcasm but I don’t imagine anything would take that self-satisfied smirk off his face - - I guess he is doing pretty well bringing in the bucks and chasing girls.  Here is some of what his boys are up to in the “foreign policy”:

  The current drone strike in Pakistan has raised to a higher level the brutality, ruthlessness, and viciousness of the American campaign.  From the report that I have seen, a US drone strike hit a house, when people came to help, another drone missile destroyed them and then at the funeral the same day another drone missile killed about 70 and the supposed target wasn’t harmed.  This sounds like the work of McChrystal and his merciless gang - - approved of by Obama and the Democrats.

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By truedigger3, June 24, 2009 at 7:39 am Link to this comment

Outraged wrote:
” I cannot outright ASSUME that Pres. Obama leads with ill intent.  Do I consider it…. sure.  But I have not yet SEEN it.”
____________________________________________________

Outraged,

I am not sure what do you exactly mean by “ill intent?”.
It is glaringly obvious, by his actions and the people he has chosen for his cabinet and his white house staff that he is a man for the continuation of the status quo and he is rolling on the same tracks W Bush was rolling on.
He says one thing and go around and does exactly the opposite, all that is camouflaged by skillful oratory, his blackness, toothpaste smile and make-believe measures that have no real substance in them.
Do you like the fiascos of the bail-outs, credit card “reform”, continuation and expansion of the wars, and now the fiasco of healththcare “reform”.??!!

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By blogdog, June 24, 2009 at 1:09 am Link to this comment

Maher lost my respect 10 years ago when he took a cheap shot at Sophia Loren for showing up at the Academy Awards (I guess it was?) - basically slammed her for going out into public at her age - incredible - she looked better at half again his age than he ever looked at half his age - what a creep.

Then a few years back he made a big display of kicking some 9/11 Truthers out of his audience when he should have invited them on stage to debate - he’s a pseudo-progressive, trying to make his mark as a tough comic radical, but too chicken shit to really stick his neck out.

He knows 9/11 was the most heinously tragic false flag provocation of all time, but let’s say it again, Bill, your basically a chicken shit. That’s right, Bill, a chicken shit, and a male creep too boot - Sophia Loren has more sex appeal in her little finger than you could ever muster, no matter how much Viagra you dropped!

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By Outraged, June 24, 2009 at 12:57 am Link to this comment

Re: Paracelsus

Your comment: “Is this a trick question? Did I pass?”

No, it wasnt’ a trick question.  There is no such “thing” as passing.  You, as I, seem VERY concerned with the “conditions on the ground” so to speak.  I do not take hard-lined views regarding most issues, and tend toward “what we know”.

Remember, a measure of politics is for show, and a measure of that does have validity, however nauseating.  I certainly find it difficult to imagine it doesn’t.  To my way of reasoning, Nader would’ve WON hands down, had we ONLY considered the facts.  However, even in this, I cannot outright ASSUME that Pres. Obama leads with ill intent.  Do I consider it…. sure.  But I have not yet SEEN it.

You appear a study of history, and with that comes many contradictory “facts”.  In this regard, as it was for me also….. a very conflicting reality.  I do not consider that I should TELL you what to do, nor would I surmise that such a premise actually exists.

I can say that from my study of it, I did find an OVERRIDING truth, or… to be more illustrative, one that had relevance, if I “panned/zoomed” out far enough, to perceive or at least consider it… a definite picture emerged.  This does require indulging MANY contradictory issues CONCEPTUALLY.

It is difficult, very difficult.  And in this regard I will not attempt to change your mind OTHER THAN (yeah, that’s my disclaimer…lol), to say, we live in times which are somewhat opaque, all the facts, we do not know.  In this sense, it becomes MORE crucial that we THINK, consider and attempt to understand…. things that truthfully we may never CONCRETELY know.  This leaves us with doubt, and a lot of it.  In this regard, I can easily endorse many of your assertions.

However, it is with a methodical demeanor and persistent integrity that we will expose the truth.  Our children might know, but we….. at times, will fight that which we SENSE from experience, but our children, they WILL KNOW.

Hang tough.

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By KDelphi, June 23, 2009 at 11:16 pm Link to this comment

Peracelsus—so which forms of govt would meet your approval? None at all, like Somalia?

I only ask because I always wonder what libertarians have in mind, or anarchists.

I am not being rhetorical or facestious—I am really asking.

BTW—I am NOT happy with this govt nor the former Nazis nor USSR.

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By rockinrobin, June 23, 2009 at 10:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

there ARE no TWO PARTY SYSTEMS in the USA: this is ONLY to MISLEAD, DECEIVE the PUBLIC into THINKING they have a “choice”; they do NOT; as Rush L stated to a QUESTION why are there TWO PARTIES when the POLITICAL AGENDA of the USA GOV is THE SAME: which is EXPLOITATION: targeting and HARMING for PERSONAL PROFIT & PERSONAL GAIN? why, the PEOPLE must have a CHOICE: or THE PUBLIC MUST THINK THEY HAVE A CHOICE in order to MISLEAD and DECEIVE THEM INTO BELIEVING something that is NOT TRUE; this is NOT a DEMOCRACY folks: it is NOT of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, and it is NOT FOR THE PEOPLE at ALL!
SHATTER that image: Hitler’s agenda was WORLD DOMINION using CORPORATIONS in EVERY NATION: starting OUT IN THE USA: stating NO ONE can be RESPONSIBLE: in GOV; in CORPS; not the SHAREHOLDERS: and they can be INVISIBLE; SAME FOLKS who owned the LARGE PLANTATIONS went to the “politicians” and said hey hey hey lets do this ANOTHER WAY: THUS the PEOPLE were TAXED! when in reality the VISION our FATHERS had was that ALL TAXATION be from PROFITS from BIG BUSINESS;
COUNTRY: is the PEOPLE, the LAND, the AIR, and the WATER: see the Teapot Dome Scandal folks; GOVERNMENT is SUPPOSED TO DO what is the MOST POSITIVE BENEFICIAL for the COUNTRY: FIRST, the PEOPLE, then the LAND, the WATER and the AIR;
LOOK: one Senator in the 50’s stated it was easy to run the Gov; it’s just like “a large plantation”; Geraldo Rivera: “they” haven’t decided yet whether blacks or browns will have roofing jobs; Ask NOT what your COUNTRY can do for YOU: (THEIR meaning of COUNTRY is the CORRUPT & CRIMINAL GOVERNMENT who ignores laws, rewrites laws; keeping it “all at the top” is SLAVERY folks; STOCKHOLDERS COME FIRST: NOT the PEOPLE, not the COUNTRY: but THE WEALTHY: those who do NOT pay taxes nor will they; isn’t that what they accused SADDAM HUSSAIN whom they SET UP in Iraq of DOING?
Have ALL THE MONEY YOU* WANT: do WHATEVER you want, HOWEVER you want, WHENEVER you want and NEVER BE BROUGHT TO JUSTICE! is the SAYING of the GOV; which is why Hillary C would not allow ANYONE to TALK to HER in the WH; let go all long time employees, hired new, worked 39 hours to DENY benefits; shredded all emails sent to the WH without reading; STOLE from the WH, and feels JUSTIFIED in spending $100,000,000.00 in 1 single month living LARGE and being in CHARGE (no real estate folks) just fine wining & dining; while claiming NO $ for the vets returning from war; refusing even medications to treat them;
Oh, she ran 20 months for Pres: guess the AMOUNT she spent all STOLEN from the PEOPLE of the USA; they PROMOTE criminals folks; she was GUILTY in the S&L scandal; NO JUSTICE EXISTS in the USA; What they PRESENT as “true” is all LIES: oh, George W Bush, stated: Hitler “did a lot of good” WELCOME to the 10th LEVEL of NAZI MENTALITY in the WORLD TODAY: it is called the USA; oh, that’s right; it was a SOCIALIST PARTY that HITLER ran under wasn’t it?

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By Paracelsus, June 23, 2009 at 10:31 pm Link to this comment

Regarding your first premise, I agree.  Regarding your second, I would ask that you investigate how Hitler and other dictators, politically and financially rose to power.  They used what has been deemed “a shadow” government.  Or more blantantly, TWO SETS of power, the LEGITIMATE one, and the shadow one.

Who…. do you think…, was Hitler’s (or any other dictators’ for that matter) “go to” people?

Think, investigate, and proceed cautiously.  Be discerning.

The Illuminati? I don’t know because puppet strings have quite a length to go from the front men. I know that Thyssen was a supporter. I know that Henry Ford was a very early supporter. I know that King George was a big fan. I know that Sullivan and Cromwell were great rainmakers for Nazi gov. bonds. I am sure that the Du Ponts were good supporters. I know that GM, IBM, and Firestone kept in dutch with the deutche. Then there is the Harriman connection with Prescott Bush as errand boy. I suppose like the suspects on the Orient Express, “we are all guilty in supporting Hitler”. For all I know Obama has relations way back who thought fascism was just grand in the 1930’s. Don’t look shocked. Fascism and Nazism were greatly praised and extolled by the smart set of elites back then. It was efficient and “humanitarian”. I think before Edward Deming’s continuous quality improvement was adopted by the Japanese after WW II, he worked for Henry Ford in the 1930’s. All this Third Way politics is just warmed up fascism from the 1930’s. If you have something good and people always fall for it, why try anything new?
George Bernard Shaw was a wonderful cheerleader for fascism. The journalists at Time magazine thought Hitler grand. They also thought the Soviet Union was a noble experiment. Is this a trick question? Did I pass?

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By Paracelsus, June 23, 2009 at 10:12 pm Link to this comment

Regarding your first premise, I agree.  Regarding your second, I would ask that you investigate how Hitler and other dictators, politically and financially rose to power.  They used what has been deemed “a shadow” government.  Or more blantantly, TWO SETS of power, the LEGITIMATE one, and the shadow one.

Who…. do you think…, was Hitler’s (or any other dictators’ for that matter) “go to” people?

Think, investigate, and proceed cautiously.  Be discerning.

I would say the shadow government, the go to people would have to be the folks below, because they also liked to sport toothbrush mustaches:


Alexander Vasilyevich Alexandrov

Merle Allin

Reynir Axelsson
Hovhannes Bagramyan

Abdalá Bucaram

Sepp Dietrich

Levi Eshkol

Tav Falco

Gottfried Feder
.
Max Fleischer

Otto Frank

Adolf Galland

Oliver Hardy

Martin Heidegger

Richard Herring

Heinrich Himmler


Friedrich Kellner

Fumimaro Konoe

Ron Mael

Zoltán Meskó

Kevin Millar

Robert Mugabe

Julius Kambarage Nyerere

Hermann Obrecht

Marcel Pilet-Golaz

Karl Plagge

Sayyid Qutb

Fritz Sauckel
.
Julius Schreck

Yitzhak Shamir

Moshe Sharett

Jan Syrový

Ludwig von Mises

Yitzhak Shamir was a surprise to me as well. Who knew?

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By Outraged, June 23, 2009 at 9:34 pm Link to this comment

Re: Paracelsus

Your comment: “Somehow I don’t think gun control laws are wise thing for a country with free speech zones. Did you also know the pentagon considers protest terrorism?”

Regarding your first premise, I agree.  Regarding your second, I would ask that you investigate how Hitler and other dictators, politically and financially rose to power.  They used what has been deemed “a shadow” government.  Or more blantantly, TWO SETS of power, the LEGITIMATE one, and the shadow one.

Who…. do you think…, was Hitler’s (or any other dictators’ for that matter) “go to” people?

Think, investigate, and proceed cautiously.  Be discerning.

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By Outraged, June 23, 2009 at 9:17 pm Link to this comment

Re: KDelphi

Your comment: “This country is heartless.”

This is not true, although I can certainly entertain your premise.

The REAL problem is, as it is in Iran, Iraq and many other countries (some of which I can say… I’m probably unaware), it is NOT a problem of The People, and it never is.  It is a problem of monied interests, and I know you know this.  In fact, you’ve stated it many times.

In that construct, I can absolutely say…. They don’t care….. you’re right, they don’t.  This is where we will need to draw our “line in the sand”.  And hold to it.

Hang tough.

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By Paracelsus, June 23, 2009 at 8:26 pm Link to this comment

Somehow I don’t think gun control laws are wise thing for a country with free speech zones. Did you also know the pentagon considers protest terrorism?

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By KDelphi, June 23, 2009 at 4:51 pm Link to this comment

btw—hippie4ever

I wasnt saying you were a “fool”, in case you took it that way. I just feel like one when I call my reps most of the time

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By KDelphi, June 23, 2009 at 4:49 pm Link to this comment

hippi4ever—maybe so, for some. But, if I cannot go back to work, at least part time, for fear of losing Medical coverage, now that my pension is gone, I will have to file bankruptcy, and, in the state I live in, I will what little I have left of my house.

I didnt go into a field where I ever expected to be wealthy, but I expected to be able to survive and provide myself with the basics. Cant do it anymore.

It is true that, if enough people remain reasonably “comfortable”, nothing will happen. But, around here, anyway, fewer and fewer are even living in their houwses or eating twice a day. Even fewer go to the doctor—I know people who havent been to a dr in 25 yrs.

The last of my “neighbors of more than 5 yrs” moved out a couple of wks ago.

This country is heartless.

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By 111mike, June 23, 2009 at 2:47 pm Link to this comment

Nation of Manipulation, LLC

Let our mastery of language and proficiency at disseminating its desired effect pave the way for your business/financial endeavors.

Specializing in behavior modification & manufacture of consent.

Proficient in the use of fear based manipulatory tactics.

Time-honored techniques include the use of clever, repetitive catchphrases/buzzwords, demonization of the opposition, and a relentless barrage of disinformation proven effective at disorienting and stripping the will of an unwary public.

“Circumventing the will of a pacified and unsuspecting populace for generations.”

Linguistics experts
Your “elected” Officials
Elphs and Asses
1001 Pennsylvania Ave.

Seriously though, what happens in a society when no one knows what the truth is anymore? Anyone care to comment?

And what to make of the new Comcast commercials lately?  The ones with the cartoonish looking people all singing in monotone as they go merrily about their HD watching, text messaging day.

I have come to believe that the Citizens of this country have absolutely no objection to being brainwashed, literally.  In fact, it has become glaringly apparent that as long as we’re all nice and safe and protected, with nothing to disturb the little lives that we have created for ourselves, we will be content to live out this existence quietly succumbing to the whims of those in power, Democrats and Republicans alike.

Who knows, maybe it’s something in our Big Macs

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By hippie4ever, June 23, 2009 at 2:33 pm Link to this comment

truedigger3 wrote back, “What you are suggesting have been tried before millions of times to no avail.
If there is a conflict between the interests of the common folks and the interests of big Money/Business, big Money/Business always gets the vote.”

Not always so: Petaluma’s board of supes had decided to allow an asphalt plant next to an estuary and playground, and near a grammar school. A few housewives got together, used facebook/twitter to get the information out to the community who were unaware of this issue. Petaluma is progressive; they passed one of the first no-growth ordinances in the country (1978). They voted against Prop 8 and have passed many peace initiatives throughout the years.

Petalumans called, wrote letters & emailed their supes; then they showed up in masse to the next board meeting. Suddenly a 5-1 majority for the plant became a 4-2 majority against it. Sure, those two invenerate crooks must be voted out and I’m sure they will be. The others should go too, I agree, except for the one Supe who was right from the beginning.

truthdigger3, I stand by my statements that the people, if serious and committed, can force their legislators to do their damned jobs properly. Yes the people have been lazy and many are fools, but times are hard now and people are no longer complacent. Keep your ears open and you may hear some fools beginning to wise up. It can happen, and if we don’t have confidence in ourselves and the courage of our convictions, we are doomed. To me that’s unacceptable.

As a progressive activist I am encouraged, although I agree with

Kdelphi, that sometimes it is discouraging, feels hopeless, that the deck seems so stacked against us. But delphi, we carry on, don’t we? What else can we do? I’m too far gone to go back to wearing suits & no corporation in its right mind would ever give me a job. What? There are no jobs?

so the country will eventually hit bottom; it’s a long way down. This provides progressives with a tremendous opportunity to effect meaningful change, both within and without the system.

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By KDelphi, June 23, 2009 at 2:31 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA—why do you deny the rightful place of punctuation to prevent run-on sentences?

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By truedigger3, June 23, 2009 at 2:11 pm Link to this comment

jamie,

WOW WOW WA, what is this all about??. Are you ardent DLC operator and believer.? Or are you just another one of those religious nuts that plague this site occasionally??
Maher is right in this clip, but this doesn’t mean he is a political activist or he is consistent.
I agree with with the sentiment expressed by KDelphi and Samoamo.
Take your preaching and pontifacation some place else and don’t come back. Take Christian96 with you.

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By KDelphi, June 23, 2009 at 1:45 pm Link to this comment

Samson is right…Maher only occasionally seems to get a brain fart and stick up for people that need it..he was better at it when he was on the East Coast…

Bernie Sanders!!http://www.sanders.senate.gov/news/record.cfm?id=314866

I dont agree with him on everything, but, if we had about 100 more of him, we might have a more just country..more Kucinich’s, etc

We’re sure not going to get that out of the Dems, who treat such reps like day old bread.

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By Samson, June 23, 2009 at 11:48 am Link to this comment

Anyone who challenges the rich, and their servants like the Democrats and Republicans, will quickly find themselves smeared.  That’s very typical these days. 

You can judge a journalist by the enemies they make.

My problem with Mr. Maher is that he is one of many who will say something like this during the ‘off-years’ of the political cycle.  But, you can be rather certain that by the time next years elections are in full swing, he’ll be backing the Democrats once again.  Or at least that’s his track record.  Maybe he’ll really wake up and start supporting alternatives to the Democrats.

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By Virginia777, June 23, 2009 at 11:02 am Link to this comment

whoaa, Jamie, whats the matter?

don’t like Bill Maher’s message? trying to throw some dirt his way?

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By jamie, June 23, 2009 at 8:25 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Bill Maher makes my skin crawl. He is the quintessential “dirty old man” and having him critique ethics and morals of anyone or anything is like having Larry Flynt or that wrinkled and ragged bag of trash named Hugh Heffner pontificate about the perils of schmoozing with peadophiles.

It was the pot calling the kettle black.

Corruption of mind, body or spirit are all equal and Bill Maher should spend some time taking out the “garbage”.......his garbage.

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By christian96, June 23, 2009 at 7:23 am Link to this comment

Richard East—-Jesus said, “I AM THE TRUTH.”  Anyone
reading Truthdig should pay attention to the teachings of Jesus.  The brightest scientist in the
20th century, Albert Einstein, said in a book titled
Ideas and Opinions that if people would remove all
the additions that have been made over the years to
the teachings of Jesus, we would have teachings
which would lay a foundation for world peace. If you
are a true searcher of the truth perhaps you should
spend more time studying the teachings of Jesus.

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By Outraged, June 23, 2009 at 12:32 am Link to this comment

Re: ohiolibgal

Your comment: “The baseline has moved a tremendous amount to the right over the last 50-60 years. Thom Hartmann one day played an audio0 clip of Ike, in 1953 or so, talking like Bernie Sanders - and of course Eisenhower, in his farewell address as he was leaving office,very pointedly warned against that which has mightily helped take us over, the military-industrial complex.

Also, under Ike the highest marginal tax rate was 91 or 92% every year. Reagan huffed and puffed and got it all the way down to 28% helping to throw our debt into free fall. It’s at 35% now, raise it up 10-15 per percent and that could help pay for our health care.”

You go girl!  I’m right behind you, additionally I surmise, SO IS THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS.  Good Post.

This is simply one one of those “cut to the chase” moments.  Don’t give us the blather, we’ve heard it a thousand times over.  Let’s get the facts.  Endorse… single payer.

Pres. Eisenhower was a man FOR America.  In any way he could, he told us…. and he kept it up, time and time again.  He was warning us…., he knew.  It is so blantantly obvious…... he knew.  Strategic thinking….. sure, he understood.

I sense Pres. Eisenhower saw the “writing on the wall”.  He KNEW,.... he KNEW, and he warned us.  Let us consider his warning, and protect America.  “Wolves in among sheep” would be fitting….. it is the time to stand…., the time to be accounted for.  Eisenhower saw it…. he tried to tell us.

Healthcare is one.... among many issues we need to control to PROTECT our intrests.  Remember,,, facsism is the enemy of democracy and the BIG MONIED INTERESTS of corporate America USE a fascistic model to maintain their “bottom line”.

Investigate, read the dictates of Fascism before you entertain the notion that corporatism is somehow “different” from fascism.  READ, READ, READ, don’t indulge my claim outright, READ, INVESTIGATE….... Challenge yourself, challenge me if you like, but either way be TRUE to yourselves, get the facts.

It is my premise that Huey Long died (not by his own choice) but, that he might bring a measure of justice to the American People.  In my opinion this graphically depicts the “other side”.  Again and again they prove themselves creatins, degenerate creatins….. fight America.  Dig in.

NEVER…..give up the ship, even if, it APPEARS all is lost.  Appearances, can and ARE used as a TACTIC, never give up the ship.  They are LYING to you, and me too.  Be discerning, think twice, protect yourself and your neighbors.  Think. Think. Think.

Free America and you will free the world. 1,2,3,4 what is it we’re fighting for….?

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By Outraged, June 22, 2009 at 11:04 pm Link to this comment

Excellent show Mr. Maher.  I enjoyed it so much I watched it twice (lol), that’s no shit.

I happened to be grandbaby-sitting, since currently I can’t afford HBO, but hey…. all is not lost, they have it.  Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.  Anyway…... It was a great show, and I admit, I certainly haven’t seen them all by “default”, however…from the ones I have seen, this one was cool.

I have to interject and give Mr. Maher my thanks and appreciation for showing empathy towards Ms. McCain, it showed and that was cool.  I thought it was very cool.  I’m gauging (hopefully, I’m not wrong…lol) that like Mr. Maher, I don’t agree with Ms. McCain, at least for the most, but I give her all the credit in the world for standing up….. this too was cool and personally I think, quite savvy… really, brave and mmmm…. I search for the word, maybe…. mmmmmm….  no, I’m still searching.  (You know how these things are,, sometimes it’s there and sometimes you simply cannot for the life of you find THE WORD….) sorry, couldn’t contain myself.

Aside from that, I agree.  Something is certainly rotten in “rotten in Denmark” (again… no offense Denmark, just a euphemism).  I without hesitation will confer that Mr. Maher is accurate when saying that, (of course, I’m translating since my current system… yes, I’ve been relegated to firing up the ol’ beast, doesn’t allow me to view ANY video format… what’s up with that?) the GOAL POSTS have been moved.  Thank you, Bill.

How is it that facts have been relegated to the “margins of society”?  It’s bizarre.  Certainly, some of these “blue dog democrats” as they have been so benignly deemed, are corrupt.  To this, I consider one of my own state senators a Mr. Herb Kohl.  Offer him up folks, as a Wisconsinite (lol…that one “gets me” every time), I say…... if he would like to “PERSONIFY” himself as a moderate, FINE….. then DO THAT!  He hasn’t.

Drop him a line, give him a “jingle”, but whatever you do, DON’T ignore this supposed “moderate democrat” mantra.  My God, if that’s moderate, then I must be a damn “commie”.....
http://kohl.senate.gov/contact.cfm

That said, I was wondering….. if I’m the type of person (and I am) who would throw a firecraker under the chair of those, “over 45 shall we say”, as they serenely sit around the campfire, strictly for “kicks and grins”, because I surmise that it is funnier than shit (and it is…btw)...... because I surmise, that their reactions are so overblown (you know… they won’t talk to ya’ for like three days, during the trip….lol), how could I be “a commie”?  You got me hangin’.

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By ohiolibgal, June 22, 2009 at 9:56 pm Link to this comment

I found myself screaming yes!, yes!, yes! and on and on as Nill was going through his final rant - including, finally, someone saying we need to raise taxes on the wealthy among us. Nobody needs to be a gazillionaire when people are losing their houses and going hungry. For years the rich have been getting constantly richer while the middle class is being destroyed, it’s time to drastically turn that around.

The baseline has moved a tremendous amount to the right over the last 50-60 years. Thom Hartmann one day played an audio0 clip of Ike, in 1953 or so, talking like Bernie Sanders - and of course Eisenhower, in his farewell address as he was leaving office,very pointedly warned against that which has mightily helped take us over, the military-industrial complex.

Also, under Ike the highest marginal tax rate was 91 or 92% every year. Reagan huffed and puffed and got it all the way down to 28% helping to throw our debt into free fall. It’s at 35% now, raise it up 10-15 per percent and that could help pay for our health care.

Finally if they don’t take the bull by the horns and pass a meaningful health care bill (at least a strong public option) I would agree with Bill that we would have to look hard at forming a true progressive/populist party.

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By Russian Paul, June 22, 2009 at 9:30 pm Link to this comment

Martha, open a history book. Never before has the Democratic party stood for the 70% population you keep going on about, they have ALWAYS been tied to corporate interests, ALWAYS.

If opposition candidates do join together with “institutionalized” parties, they tend to get their policy ideas watered down to nothing and nothing gets done. Your dream of replacing all Democrats with Dennis Kuciniches is just not practical. You really seem to believe that at one point in time, the Democratic party was progressive or represented the people’s interests when IT NEVER HAS.

Again, when Bill Maher is radically to the left of you, that should give you pause.

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By MarthaA, June 22, 2009 at 7:54 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

Why do you not want the 70% Majority Common Population to mean anything, when they mean everything?  Mean, vile and vulgar only means you aren’t of noble birth.  The 70% Majority Common Population was called the Mob in Rome and they were called the Commoners and Peasants in Britain, but the United States pretends the 70% Majority Populations of Commoners do not exist at all.  It is most likely that the Aristocracy and the Professional Middle Class toadies of the United States pretend that the 70% Majority Common Population doesn’t exist because the leadership of the U.S. Government has always understood that if the Common Population becomes self aware that they would demand their share of the nation’s wealth, and be a threat to the rule of the American Aristocracy and the Professional Middle Class toadies. Is this the reason why you deny the existence of the 70% Majority Common Population of the United States?

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By MarthaA, June 22, 2009 at 7:37 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

You mentioned the 70% Majority Common Population, the mean, vile and vulgar, 10% American Aristocracy-Elite Capitalist Class, but how come you left out the most important class, the 20% Professional Middle Class DLC New Class toadies that’s ideology enacted with the help of the Republican EXTREMISTS brought all the woes down on our country and are still doing what they can to cause even further woes on our nation?

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By MarthaA, June 22, 2009 at 7:00 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

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By Virginia777, June 22, 2009 at 6:20 pm Link to this comment

you got that right, Bill Maher, the Democrats ARE the new Republicans,

and that is a big part of the reason why we are in the mess we are in.

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By KDelphi, June 22, 2009 at 4:15 pm Link to this comment

MarthaA—Please stop this. I have googled it, as you well know. YOu have referred me to various places and “defined” it.  It is “all over the internet” by you…

It is a bit of sophistry that means nothing. There are people swallowing mustard all over the internet, and cats playing the piano, too..

There is one place I find it, and, I am certain that the post is by you: (at a Dem Party website)

http://www.democrats.org/a/2008/09/mccain_adviser_1.php

QUOTE:
“The dream of capitalists, bankers, insurers and aristocrats is to have an irresponsible, unaccountable, deregulated so called free market economy. An irresponsible, unaccountable, deregulated so called free market economy rides on the backs of the 70% “vile, vulgar and mean” common population of working people, like parasites, being supported by, but weighting down the 70% “vile, vulgar and mean” common population of working people until the weight from the exorbitant greed of the 10% free market economy of capitalists, bankers, insurers and aristocrats weigh down the 70% “vile, vulgar and mean” common population of working people until the 70% “vile, vulgar and mean” common population of working people’s taxes are no longer able to support their irresponsible, unaccountable, deregulated so called free market economy; and their irresponsible, unaccountable, deregulated free market economy collapses; as has been happening; then their irresponsible, unaccountable, deregulated free market economy’s leaders whine to borrow FOREIGN MONEY, whining their way into being rescued from the consequences of their corrupt actions, which further extends the length of carrying time and the burden of weight that the 70% “vile, vulgar and mean” common population, the working people, will be duped into carrying as they are the only support structure for the economy to recover, when the 10% capitalists, bankers, insurers and aristocrats are allowed to make off with their haul without being accountable—- then, after the economy does recover, the whole dumb show of their irresponsible, unaccountable, deregulated so called free market economy starts all over again”

The 70% the 10%—can you even do percentages? Stop acting like people are stupid when they say it doesnt make any sense. It doesnt.

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By KDelphi, June 22, 2009 at 2:53 pm Link to this comment

“Reform” is for cowards…health care reform = insurance industry corporate death care.

Democratic Party ‘reform” = Obama instead of Clinton—who cares?? Whats the point??
From May 13,2009

http://socialistworker.org/2009/05/13/limits-of-liberalism

“The Limits of Liberalism” Lance Selfa

The history of American liberalism isn’t of promoting radical change, but of governing the capitalist system in the interest of preserving the status quo.

“..THE STANDARD arguments for explaining these capitulations to big business include everything from parliamentary excuses (“we’ve got to get 60 votes in the Senate”) to the fact that Obama and congressional Democrats have pocketed millions in corporate cash. While these explanations tell part of the story, they avoid a bigger picture that places today’s pressure toward reform in the context of American liberalism’s history as one of the two main philosophies (along with conservatism) for governing American capitalism….

....Despite what conservatives are shouting these days, liberalism is not a version of “socialism,” or even social democracy. It’s one way to run a capitalist economy in the interests of capital. We can see this even when we look at liberalism’s “high tide”—the New Deal era of the 1930s and 1940s, under Franklin Delano Roosevelt.”...

The Democratic Party’s brand of liberalism in that period was pretty mild stuff.


As political scientist Thomas Ferguson once remarked, this factor explains why the Democratic Party

“...left ordinary Americans alternately confused, perplexed, alarmed or disgusted, as they tried to puzzle out why the party did so little to help unionize the South, protect the victims of McCarthyism, promote civil rights for Blacks, women or Hispanics, or in the late 1970s, combat America’s great ‘right turn’ against the New Deal itself.”

To such people, it always remained a mystery why the Democrats so often betrayed the ideals of the New Deal. Little did they realize that, in fact, the party was only living up to them…

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By MarthaA, June 22, 2009 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

The phrase 70% Majority Common Population is all over the internet and has been for years, don’t take my word for it, Google it.

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By MarthaA, June 22, 2009 at 2:12 pm Link to this comment

Russian Paul,

I agree that reforming the Democratic Party is absurd as a means to an end that will represent the 70% Majority Common Population as a class and culture, however, as a political expedient to enable the formation of a multi-party political system in the United States that will represent the 70% Majority Common Population of the United States, it is the most practical.

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By ThomasG, June 22, 2009 at 2:01 pm Link to this comment

truedigger3,

Mass awareness is the key.  When mass awareness reaches the proper
point, if redress of grievances is not forthcoming, the Bastille is stormed and heads will roll.  This point should not happen in the United States, but if mass awareness and a lack of redress of grievance is forced by the 30% minority of the American aristocracy and Professional Middle Class that rule politically in the United States to the exclusion of the 70% Majority Common Population as a class and culture, it will be a very real possibility at some future point.

In France, Marie Antoinette said, “Let Them Eat Cake.”  Today, in the United States the combined 30% minority of the American aristocracy and the Professional Middle Class consider that “Let Them Eat Grass” is sufficient for the 70% Majority Common Population of the United States as a class and culture.  “Let Them Eat Cake.” sparked a revolution in France when mass awareness of oppression and tyranny by the Aristocracy and their middle class toadies was realized; “Let Them Eat Grass” can result in the same solution when awareness of perceived oppression and tyranny comes to fruition in the 70% Majority Common Population as a class and culture.

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By Russian Paul, June 22, 2009 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

No, Martha. I am saying that such a reform of the Democratic party is unrealistic. The corporate interests are intricately woven into that party. This is historically true and it is silly to think you can replace them all with Dennis Kuciniches.
Is a viable 3rd party far away? Yes. But your idea of reforming the Democratic party is even more absurd. We need a real opposition party.

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By ThomasG, June 22, 2009 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment

truedigger3,

What is practical reality?  Is practical reality dogma?—doctrine?—and doxy?  And, if so, who is the author of your practical reality?  Your practical reality is the doctrine of some idealism.  Please identify the author or authors of the idealism that you consider practical reality.  I suspect that we will have a difference of opinion with regard to your perception of practical reality.

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By MarthaA, June 22, 2009 at 1:29 pm Link to this comment

Russian Paul,

If you are saying that the 70% Majority Common Population of the United States must unite as a class and cultural voting block and REFORM the Democratic Party by voting out all of the DLC toadies to the American aristocracy that currently infest the Democratic Party and replace them with Democratic Party members that represent the 70% Majority Common Population as a class and culture, I agree.

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By Xntrk, June 22, 2009 at 1:27 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Count me with KDelphi, Russian Paul, and Truthdigger. I spent 20 years trying to shove the Democrats to the left, and quit in disgust when they passed ‘Welfare Reform. As for the electorate being to lazy and ignorant to get off their asses and vote smart I can even explain that. Ever hear of bread and blood to entertain the masses? That’s what we raise our kids on, and anesthetize our adults with. And, it’s white bread and their blood, at that!

We need a Third Party. A REAL 3rd Party, not a handfull of people who cannot organize kittens around a bowl of milk! As for writing letters; calling the ancient Senators who are so overstuffed they can’t hear the people; and attending public meetings where they ignore the important stuff and talk over the protesters; why ?

When they throw citizens out of Congressional Hearings, make demonstrators change the shirts, and arrest the few who disobey, that is just another example of the insanity of doing the same thing over and over and over again!

It is about as effective as pissing into the wind. Your target doesn’t get it and you wind up needing a bath!

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By truedigger3, June 22, 2009 at 1:18 pm Link to this comment

heppie4ever wrote:
“For example, one way to force your congress to respond to your will is to write letters and telephone. How many people actually bother to do this? Another thing you can do is attend town hall meetings scheduled by your senators and reps. Meet them face-to-face and lobby for what YOU want.”
_____________________________________________________

heppie4ever,

What you are suggesting have been tried before millions of times to no avail.
If there is a conflict between the interests of the common folks and the interests of big Money/Business, big Money/Business always gets the vote.
That has been proven over and over, for example in the bail-out vote last fall and in the way the healthcare debate is going on.
Everyone is prefering single payer, but it is like you are talking to a wall.
Currently we don’t have a democracy. We are ruled
by big Money/Business and the elections is theatrical
show like professional wrestling to bullshit the citizenry.

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By MarthaA, June 22, 2009 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment

KDelphi,

Your frame of being content with Democrats is a false frame.  The proper frame is being content with REFORM of the Democratic Party, so that the Democratic Party can be made to represent the 70% Majority Common Population of the United States. 

At present a combined 30% minority of the American aristocracy and the Professional Middle Class control the Democratic Party.  The 70% Majority Common Population of the United States must reform the Democratic Party, so that they can take their rightful position in the promulgation of law and law enforcement, so that law and order can be made to represent the best interest of the 70% Majority Common Population of the United States as a class and culture.  If you are not content to work toward this end, it can only mean that you are not a part of the disenfranchised 70% Majority Common Population of the United States as a class and culture, and that you will benefit by the continued rule by the 30% combined minority rule of the American aristocracy and the Professional Middle Class.

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By truedigger3, June 22, 2009 at 12:55 pm Link to this comment

ThomasG,

Your abstract meaningless nonsense is just like
that, theoritical bullshit that is completely
divorced of any practical reality and any
possible solution.

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By ThomasG, June 22, 2009 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment

danmcleran,

The biggest problem we have in the United States is not that we have an ignorant, lazy electorate, it is that we have three distinct and different classes and cultures in the United States and only two that are represented by political parties, a 30% combined minority of the American aristocracy and Professional Middle Class represented by the Republican Party and the Democratic Party, leaving the 70% Majority Common Population of the United States unrepresented by a political party and unrepresented in the Congress of the United States disenfranchised from being able to promulgate law and order that is in their best interest while being held accountable for subjective law and order promulgated and enforced by the 30% minority of the ruling classes and cultures. 

This is the problem in the United States today, and this is the problem that the 70% Majority Common Population of the United States must become aware of, if the Common Population is going to be represented by anything more than subjective “law” made by others for the benefit of others from which they have never and will never receive anything more than “order”, law enforcement, that is oppression and tyranny.

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By ThomasG, June 22, 2009 at 12:26 pm Link to this comment

Tom Semioli,

There used to be a coach that said, “It ain’t over, til it’s over.”  Game over might mean something to entertainment or some sort of a game, but game over is meaningless to politics.  In politics it is never “game over”, because “It ain’t over when it’s over”.

Politics is leadership of constituents in their best interest and non-constituents against their best interest, this game of politics by its very definition can never be over as long as some are being led in their best interest and some are being led against their best interest; this is why with politics, “It ain’t over when it’s over.”

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By KDelphi, June 22, 2009 at 11:59 am Link to this comment

C’mon, Martha, you and Thomas G have to , at least , be related. Your posts “complement” each other too well…two people who just happen on the constant phrase “70% COMMON POPULATION”??

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By herewegoagain, June 22, 2009 at 11:57 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

martha writes: “You are day dreaming thinking the non-institutionalized Greens, Independents or any other non-institutionalized party has a chance even to get on all the ballots of every state.”

But look how many voters are now registered Independents. Something like 36%. That’s a huge number. What’s more, and this should strike fear in the heart of the Democratic party, Obama’s win has not added substantial amounts of new Democratic voters.

After this last election cycle and seeing how Obama’s campaign rhetoric couldn’t be more different from his actualleadership, I personally think the only way to save the Democratic party is to stop voting for most of them. Even if the Republican candidate scares us to death - which is exactly what the Democratic candidates depend on to win your vote, since most don’t have a record of actually fighting for your interests.

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By Russian Paul, June 22, 2009 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

the majority control of the Democratic Party is still Republican-Lite….we must keep trying to get real liberal Democrats in the House and Senate.

Why? I’m with KDelphi, the Democrats are hopeless. Historically, they always have been, this two-party system has been a joke from the beginning. There are only a handful of reasonable Democrats, but on the other hand, there are also a handful of reasonable Republicans. Less than 1%. Forget both of them, we need a new movement.

You are day dreaming thinking the non-institutionalized Greens, Independents or any other non-institutionalized party has a chance even to get on all the ballots of every state.

Your daydreaming is even more ludicrous if you think you can take the corporate interests out of the Democratic party. It’s not going to happen. Why not fight for real change?

When Bill Maher is more radical than you…well that’s saying something.

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By KDelphi, June 22, 2009 at 11:50 am Link to this comment

MarthA—I think that you are very wrong and aim to prove it so. I “understand” perfectly—I was a Dem for many years. Never will be again.

If I have to settle for these lame-ass Dems, I’d rather die fighting.

I dont want my last thought to be, “well, we couldnt do any better”. If you are content with Dems, you are fortunate.

We can do better, and we will or die trying.

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By MarthaA, June 22, 2009 at 11:25 am Link to this comment

KDelphi,

Why can’t you understand?  Do you know what a coup is?  The Conservative Republican Movement, said they have 131 DLC New Democrats and Blue Dog Republican-Democrats in the House, and all but 1 in the Senate, which means the majority control of the Democratic Party is still Republican-Lite, that took a long time to accomplish and can’t be repaired in only one or two election cycles, it may take 20 years for the Democratic Movement to return the Democratic Party to liberal, but we must keep trying to get real liberal Democrats in the House and Senate.  If we do not give up, it will happen, but it is plain to see that it is going to take a while. I pray I live to see the Democratic Party returned to democratic control.

We must continue to remove and replace corrupted conservative Democrats with liberal Democrats until the party represents the people; instead of the right-wing’s corporations.  There is no other way.  You are day dreaming thinking the non-institutionalized Greens, Independents or any other non-institutionalized party has a chance even to get on all the ballots of every state.

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By ThomasG, June 22, 2009 at 10:56 am Link to this comment

richard east,

Why the Democratic Party and the Republican Party Are Not the Same.

The difference between the Democratic Party and the Republican Party lies in abstract understanding of what the Democratic Party and the Republican Party represent.

In an abstract sense the Democratic Party is representative of democracy and the Republican Party is representative of a republic; democracy is representative of the people, and a republic is representative of a Senatorial oligarchy that rules with or without an executive autocrat.

In a literal sense, the Democratic Party and the Republican Party can change from the abstract sense of their creation to represent democracy and a republic in ways that are alien to the abstract concept of either a democracy or a republic.

With the Democratic Party, the Democratic Party has changed literally from the abstract sense of the Democratic Party’s creation, that of being representative of popular democracy, to being representative literally of a republic; this does not mean that the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are the same; this means that the Democratic Party has been taken over by people that do not represent popular democracy; and if the masses who are desirous of popular democracy want the Democratic Party to find its way back to the abstract sense of its creation, that of popular democracy, the masses who are desirous of popular democracy must use their power and control, as a 70% Majority Common Population, to reform the Democratic Party to serve their interests of popular democracy; rather than duopolistic interests of a republic, as represented by the Republican Party.

Creative abstraction makes, and both time and tide make literal changes; when this happens creative abstraction can make a new model, or reform the old model. 

With the Democratic Party, we in the United States need both to reform the Democratic Party back to its abstract origins, and to create a new multi-party political system in the United States that will allow a wider cross-section of political representation in the making and enforcing of law and order in the United States.

The Democratic Party and the Republican Party are not the same because the Democratic Party is representative of the abstract concept of popular democracy, and the Republican Party is representative of the abstract concept of a republic, all else is creative reform when literal change occurs from the original abstract concept.

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By KDelphi, June 22, 2009 at 9:51 am Link to this comment

I saw this Friday and agree.

hippi4ever—I am one of those fools that Rep Turner will no longer speak to or see…I talk to Sen Brown’s office and get newsletter. I also correspond with Kucinich, Sanders and other more “liberal” minded reps. I am a Socialist, but there are only a few even worth talking to. I am not disagreeing with you, I still do it all the time.

I have called Baucus everyday,(every week day—just a 30 second call to remind him I am watching) on credo free speech calls, since he started holding the hearings on GOP/Dems brand corporate heatlh care. He probably doesnt care, but I still do it—every day.(when they dont hang up immediately) I have written every member of the Health and Human Services about single payer and every member of Armed Services about the war funding.

I dont think that they listened.

MarthA—I KNEW that the argument would be “we need more Democrats”—good gawd! First, we needed a majority ‘in the Senate” to “stop Bush”—didnt work. Then, we needed majorities in BOTH—didnt work. Then, we needed to elect Kerry, who just gave up. (reverse last two statements—too sore to re-type)Then, we gave the Dems ALL THREE_ and they still cant do a damn thing!

Loyalty is one thing—but pretending that we just need a few more Dems is getting ridicuous.

What we need is a Progressive party—be it Socialist, or Green or whatever—the Dems have failed us.

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By danmcleran, June 22, 2009 at 9:46 am Link to this comment

Tom Semioli is absolutely right. Almost every branch of government is elected in this country. The appointees are appointed by people whom are elected. The biggest problem we have in this country is an ignorant, lazy electorate. Most people could not name their representatives much less what they are doing in Congress. The bottom line is that things are pretty good for most people and they have better things to do than to worry about legislators. Until things get drastically bad for a large majority of people, no one is going to miss out on their favorite TV shows, activities, etc.

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By Tom Semioli, June 22, 2009 at 9:23 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Folks, all this bickering is moot. The USA is no longer a democracy, it has become a coporporate oligarcy. But the blame on greed (corporations) and ignorance (lack of citizen participation). Game over!

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By hippie4ever, June 22, 2009 at 9:22 am Link to this comment

I like Bill Maher but he often leaves out practical solutions. For example, one way to force your congress to respond to your will is to write letters and telephone. How many people actually bother to do this? Another thing you can do is attend town hall meetings scheduled by your senators and reps. Meet them face-to-face and lobby for what YOU want. Finally, you can get several of your neighbours together and schedule a meeting with either your rep/senator, or their staff.

These are all good, time-and-cost-effective ways to ensure that your government is uninsulated from its core constituencies.

Or you can sit at home blogging but it’s harder for them to ignore you if they can actually see and hear you.

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MarthaA's avatar

By MarthaA, June 22, 2009 at 7:52 am Link to this comment

richard east,

Democrats and Republicans are not the same; Democrat-Republicans are 20% common population toadies to the Republicans and Republicans ARE the aristocratic elite capitalists that control the ONE-PARTY HYDRA.

Try to remember there are only 131 DLC Blue Dogs and DLC New Democrats, which leaves 86 who are NOT; we need to find them, and they can be found when they start speaking out for the 70% MAJORITY COMMON POPULATION, which is the 210 Million people the Blue Dogs and New Democrats are leaving behind.

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By Bud, June 22, 2009 at 7:48 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Congressional democratic representatives,the best representation money can buy.I,and my entire family are registered democrats,have been our entire lives.We vote the straight party line.I am sad to report the democrats are spineless,and week!!To sum it all up,THEY SUCK!!!PUKES EVERYONE OF THEM.

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