By Shingo, May 21 at 3:12 am #

>>Under Bush the deficit rose astronomically and did so under during economic boom.

Not as a percentage of GDP, which is how debt is measured.

>>Under Bush, the cap on the national debt was raised at least twice.

That will always happen as long as our GDP grows (or debt grows faster).

>> Both parties are responsible for current crisis, principally Commodities Modernization Act under Clinton.
>>>Which Bush and McCain advisers pushed and lobbied for.

...as did Obama’s current cabinet members.  And of course, clinton signed it into law.

No Outrage white is the color of purity and he isn’t pure in a good way. So choking him to blackness is maybe what you are looking for. As in decay and dissolution that is.

However I am against violence because it breeds violence. We need to move away from this if we are ever going to survive and live well.

Re: mud

Your comment: “Now if he would just choke Sean to a nice shade of blue.”

Really…mud, blue is so… depressing.  Why not WHITE, pure “unadulterated” white, like the “white light” some claim in near-death experiences, or like the white of Christ’s robe….yes, WHITE is definitely much more befitting Hannity…...no?

Mr. Olberman has called Hannity on the carpet regarding his “claims” that waterboarding is not torture.  He has offered to donate ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS PER SECOND that Hannity lasted while waterboarded, to charity.  But, all charities for soldiers and their families can REST ASSURED, that Hannity is everything we thought he was, all TALK, NO ACTION!

However, there was this:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/30895528#30895528

Got my vote. Now if he would just choke Sean to a nice shade of blue.

Also our gov’t had a list of targets gotten after the failure at bringing down one of the Twin Towers in 1993. That explains why only some buildings were evacuated but not others that seemed equally viable as targets on September 11, 2001. In case anyone was wondering about that point. I knew because I remembered it from 1993. Just as I was aware of using aircraft as weapons to attack very tall buildings. [Find that in fiction and reality.] If I knew then Dr. Condelizza Rice knew too.

Re: Shingo

Your comment: “Completely off topic, but good for a laugh”

Why there is nothing “laughable” about this, what ever are you alluding to…?  In AN HONEST QUERY, I attempted to “hook up” with my “soul mate”.  I received this very disheartening message.

“No profiles has been found for your query. Please try again.”  (all I did was enter my zip….AND A FIFTY MILE RADIUS!)

But, I KNOW that my “regional neighbors” simply MUST not have found Hanniti-date’s (or whatever it was called) site.  Alas, I will strive on…. but simply for conjecture’s sake, how much do you imagine Hannity pays for “affection”.  Whoa…. were talkin’ top dollar here,  even a down and out “lady” has her price…. right? 

Aside from that, wouldn’t it have been fifties-ish if Jesse Ventura would have simply popped Hannity in the kisser?  Go Jesse…..go Jesse…..go Jesse…!

>> Completely off topic, but good for a laugh:
http://web1.hannity.com/hannidate/index.php?page=index

I’m surprised that the web site doesn’t stipulate abstinence only dating and definitely no contraception allowed.

BruSays,

A few minor points.

1. Not only did 911 happen on Bus/Cheney watch, but the Bin Laden’s were allowed to leave the US without being even questioned, only days after 911.

2. Bin Laden was allowed to get away at Tora Bora because Rumsfeld was having a turf war with the CIA.

3. According to Nobel Prize winning economist, Joseph Stiglitz, the total cost of the Iraq war would be over 3 trillion if we had ended it in 2008.

4. Republicans controlled Congress from 1994 to 2006.

Marshall,

>> Bush was not “bailed out” of anything.

Wrong.  Bush was bailed out of Arbusto oil.

>> Current deficit makes Bush deficit look like pocket change

Under Bush the deficit rose astronomically and did so under during economic boom.

Under Bush, the cap on the national debt was raised at least twice.

>> Both parties are responsible for current crisis, principally Commodities Modernization Act under Clinton.

Which Bush and McCain advisers pushed and lobbied for.

Marshall,

>> Your time honored changing of the subject doesn’t let Jessie off the hook though for making a clear, and bogus, claim about Bin Laden, airplanes, and memos.

Right on Marahall.  Why blame Bush if the memo’s din’t state specifically that OBL was determined to hit the WTC 1 and 2 on Sept 11, 2001? 

2. Recession is defined by 2 consecutive quarters negative of economic growth.  No such thing occurred until 2007.

Jessie was accurate.  You’re a clueless Bush sycophant.

By BruSays, May 20 at 5:56 pm #

Thanks Bru.  You go with “overreaching” and i’m going to stick with “wrong” cause it, well, just fits.  I’m sorry that WTC 1, USS Cole, US embassies in Nairobi, Kenya, and Tanzania (to name a few) weren’t of sufficient “magnitude” to make your list, but it wasn’t for lack of trying.  Your time honored changing of the subject doesn’t let Jessie off the hook though for making a clear, and bogus, claim about Bin Laden, airplanes, and memos.

“Recession” is NBER’s word (and Ventura’s), so i’ll let you argue the correct terminology with them (but let me know what you all decide); but my point still stands while gas-bag Ventura’s doesn’t.

I’m honored you agree with me on the bipartisan blame, though i’ll leave the parsing of the percentages to your expert analysis. I think Jessie might agree with me that the Obamnibus spending spree isn’t the way to solve it though.

Marshall…have another helping of pistachios. There’s but one agreement and that’s on Clinton’s role.
1. Think Progress was a convenient, but yet just one of dozens of sites I could cite. All convey the urgency of the memo. They convey the Clinton administration’s quick response to similar threats and the lethargic or non-existent response under Bush. IMHO Ventura’s position was overeaching but only to the extent he was making the point. I’d include plane attacks on buildings as terrorist threats as those threats had been made before. For the record (and for Cheney’s ears: since the War of 1812, there has been but one successful attack of magnitude on the U.S. and that occured during Bush/Cheney’s watch. 

2. Oh, I see. You’ve now re-named “recession” as “downturn.” How convenient. Your ORIGINAL STATEMENT SAID: “All economists agree recession began just before Bush was elected.” You may eat those words with the pistachio nuts.

3. Iraq IS and was a useless, murderous war and one that will hit about $1 Trillion before we’re out of there. Improving education, health, social services and infrastructure saves lives. Ignoring these things costs lives. Obama doesn’t have to say it. Any nut should be able to see that. 

4. As I said, bipartisan blame is not unfair. It takes two to dance at the spend, spend, spend party. But as I noted before, the Republicans have been in control over the purse strings for 14 of the past 16 years. The blame is shared. The blame is NOT 50/50, however.

By Night-Gaunt, May 20 at 2:29 pm

Very well put. I find myself looking at msnbc as my looking glass from the msm side to see what’s up for the day and to constantly remind myself of how irresponsible these conservative owners of the media are towards the citizens that must rely on ‘their’ version of information/news IF it is decided to let the people have any.

What I look for are the signs of uprising when the people would eventually and hopefully really start doing something or anything to stop this take over of the U.S.A. and I did get a sort of moment while back when over a few weeks period, that even now seems to still continue, when fathers mostly or mothers were killing their children and spouses in a last good bye to the country that betrayed them to a point that the could not provide or protect their families but thank goodness that has mostly subsided.

I still keep watching for signs of rebellion but also hope it does not come to that.

Hannity knows that Ventura is more than just brawn. He was a former SEAL and they are among the best-of-the-best in elite forces. I agree with many civil aspects of his point of view. More so than Hannity will ever give.

Wnen Clinton left office he had a surplus of $450 billion though the jobless recovery(sic) was faltering due to the fact that Bush was getting in. We were in a recession since at least 2001 with pockets of silent depression all through that so-called “recovery.”

The idea of planes being used as weapons was well known both in fiction and terrorist attempts. There was one to fly into the Eiffel Tower that failed to happen. Bush and company had no problem with getting their “Pearl Harbor” they needed for PNAC to get a heavy boost. Lucky for them the FBI had withdrawn surveillance of 7 of the members months before and ignored any reports of suspicious actions like wanting to just learn to fly a plane without landing or taking off. Again fortuitous for the PNAC planners who just happened to want it to happen. They want another one to happen too. Anytime I think.

All that talk of the Trilateral Commission and Council on Foreign Relations stems from the same types that tried to take over our country in 1934. They failed, FDR not only didn’t punish them, he covered it up. [If they had succeeded the USA would have been on the Axis Side.] Between 1945-1980 the middle class came into its existence and prospered up until Reagan was elected. The first open move by them to destroy our nation in order to make their own from its ruins. Once we get their Great Crash Depression it will be time for their last move. Under Dmitry Orlov’s 5 levels of civilization destruction at #3 when we don’t trust our gov’t anymore they will give us a helping hand to their sterile militaristic theocratic utopia for the crass and vicious neo-barbarism of a failed state. Such is how I analyze it anyway. Check out http://www.cluborlov.com/ to see how he looks at how we could take on such a collapse.

Completely off topic, but good for a laugh:

http://web1.hannity.com/hannidate/index.php?page=index

Hey, I remember when Jesse Ventura had hair and was called “The Body”!

Still in a battle of wits Hannity brings a knife to a gunfight.

How did Fox ever arise? How did it make such nitwits and pinheads like Hannity and O’Reilly into stars?

Better to be a Witness for the Prosecution than a co Defendent in War Crimes and Treason, Repugs, and that includes the propagandaists of the ‘Ministry of Truth’ on FOX News.

How can someone be sooooo obnoxious as this bag full of gas : Sean Hannity? I agree with Re’s post.

By Marshall, May 19 at 7:55 pm
““There was no memo stating Bin Laden would ram planes into buildings.”“
********************************************

No, bin laden probably wasn’t named but there were warnings from clinton’s(ugh) administration that terrorists or at least middle easterns(arab) that were in the US learning to fly but not take off or land and the august 2001 warnings from our cia that a plot to fly planes into buildings had been uncovered so a cia agent flew down to crawford and told w, he responded by telling the agent that he had ‘covered his ass’ and then w went fishing.

And since you seem to be wanting to be so technical about this why don’t you and everybody else join in for a extensive investigation of what happened on that day and how 3 buildings were brought down by demolition after the planes hit only 2 of them and the fires and impacts were NOT enough to drop those buildings, as a matter of fact, if you can’t look at those buildings come down the way they did and NOT see the all too obvious signs of building demolitions then you must be supporting what happened that day.

Shawn hannty is in the top five most obnoxious pundits with some of the most horribly gross opinions on the screen that he uses for real news and information dispersement I have seen, billie o’really has to be #1 or the both of them swap the #1 spot.

By BruSays, May 19 at 9:27 pm #

Thanks Bru - for once your post largely corroborates mine:

1. “Bin Laden Determined to Strike U.S.”... completely nonspecific as you mention - could have referred to U.S. interests abroad or at home.  Ventura incorrectly claims it predicted domestic plane attacks. That makes him wrong.  (btw - you don’t cite lefty “news” sites like Think Progress and I won’t cite people like Rush Limbaugh… deal?)

2. 2002 Recession: The benchmark that matters is NBER’s official one which puts the beginning of the recession somewhere in late 2000 (you’re correct that the downturn doesn’t fit the classic definition of a recession since it wasn’t two consecutive quarters of negative GDP.).  So - no question downturn began during Clinton.  Oh - and that makes Ventura wrong.

3. Deficit: Unfortunately for you, Obama’s own projections (or should we not believe him?) make Bush look frugal - and let’s not even mention the debt which has already gone ballistic.  And Obama’s budget will now “save lives”??  Don’t recall even him making that bogus claim, though expanding Afghanistan doesn’t exactly sound like a good recipe for that.  I guess it’s only “useless, murderous war” when a Repub is in office.  Oh, and Ventura is still wrong.

4. If you read up on the current crisis, you’ll notice that it’s entirely a bipartisan mess, and several of its top Dem architects like Geitner and Summers are now in Obama’s inner circle but again - your partisan blinders make that irrelevant, though yet another fact that makes Ventura wrong.

No wonder this guy was an ineffectual politician and has since lapsed into a 9/11 conspiracy coma.  As stated, he’s a nut.

No Marshall

Ventura = Patriot

Yes, there was a memo stating that there was an imminent threat from CIA agent Osama bin Laden and his al-Qaeda network.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB147/index.htm
http://wanttoknow.info/020515post_memo_bush_white_house_bin_laden_attack_america_9-11

All economist agree on nothing, and please distinguish between Keynesian and Austrian economists. Most Austrian economists agree we have been in a bear market, since Clinton was president. As for Keynesians, they think the Bush/Obama bailouts were a good idea.

I think the only thing you’re right about is that political parties are irrelevant. The main culprit of America’s problems are rooted deeply with the private cabal called Federal Reserve Bank of NY and its subsidiaries.

Wow. Marshall = Pecan, peanut, walnut, pistachio = Nut

1. MEMO: From “Think Progress, Dec. 17, 2008
“On August 6, 2001, the Bush administration received a President’s Daily Brief entitled “Bin Laden Determined to Strike U.S.” The memo warned:

We have not been able to corroborate some of the more sensational threat reporting, such as that from a —- service in 1998 saying that Bin Laden wanted to hijack a U.S. aircraft to gain the release of “Blind Sheikh” Omar Abdel Rahman and other U.S.-held extremists.

Nevertheless, FBI information since that time indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings or other types of attacks, including recent surveillance of federal buildings in New York.”

Oh, so the memo included nothing specifically stating that bin Laden will arrange to crash planes into skyscrapers. No date or place given (as Bush repeated over and over).  I see, so no need to worry, then. Point is, he did nothing…nothing.
2. RECESSION. “ALL” economists? Get real. Indicators were pointing downward but we were no where NEAR a recession, much less headed where we are today.

3. DEFICIT. Well Marshall, you’re confusing a current, real deficit (WHAT WE OWE NOW) with a projected deficit played out over years and years. And fortunately, this deficit will hopefully save some lives rather than be money poured down the hole of a useless, murderous war.

4. REPSONSIBLE. Yep, agreed. Clinton was certainly a a friend of the Republican economic disaster (they were, after all in control of Congress for 6 of his eight years and 6 of Bush’s 8 years). And there certainly were and remain a lot of Democrats beholden to constituants pushing for business as usual. So both “share” blame. But heres’ one for ya:
“ALL economists agree Republicans are most to blame for the current economic crisis.”

Wow!  Venture = Nut

There was no memo stating Bin Laden would ram planes into buildings.

All economists agree recession began just before Bush was elected.

Bush was not “bailed out” of anything.

Current deficit makes Bush deficit look like pocket change, both in raw numbers and as a percentage of GDP.

Both parties are responsible for current crisis, principally Commodities Modernization Act under Clinton.

Steel cage match!