rfidler,

Don’t waste your time with the cliche’d refrences to my mental health.  No doubt you believe they pass for substantive debate, but they stand out like a sore thumb and a monument to the inadequacy of your position.

I didn’t say that you’d made a statement about Ahmedinejad, merely that you supported Jason’s post, in which he referred to Ahmedinejad’s calls for death camps to be created for Jews.  Let me remind you what Jason said:

“to anyone responding favorably to Ahmadinejad’s call for death camps:”

Your first post read liek this:

” Every one of these comments, save Jason!!‘s is absolutely pathetic.”

In other words, you supported Jason’s statement, which makes you both liars.

Now as for your little screed and the pathetic attempt at sarcasm, even that was laced with lies.  First, AK-47s and RPGs are no threat to Israel and as for the cheap shot about human shields, you might want to update your talking points.  The only evidence of the use of human shields points to the IDF, not Hamas, which explains why Israel banned the media from entering Gaza.

Yes I am intense and for good reason.  Mass murder has that affecton me and I’m mightily fed up and over Israeli propaghandists who attempt to invert reality and revise history.  The mess in the Middle East is due largely to our policies, so there is much our government can do to chage the staus quo.  You can afford to be flippant about the death toll and suffering because the side you support aren’t the ones on the receiving end. 

Your first post was highly charged and indignant and now that someone has your number, you’ve changed tact and played it cool and calm.  It doesn’t change anything.  You are still a liar, an applogist for murder and a suporter of a facist and racist ideology. 

You and Jason both.

Shingo:
In my last post I said, “I want you to support your claims, not just make them.” In your response you said, “There is ample evidence to support my claims, but you have not asked for any.” What part of “I want you to support your claims” don’t you understand? Secondly, I have never made any statement about Ahmedinejad at all. Hell, I can’t even spell his name. Maybe Jason did, and you’re associating it with me.

I’m glad you characterized the deaths of 1300 Palestinians as a mere “massacre”. I actually think you’re getting soft! It was actually a holocaust/genocide/final solution operation. (My contacts inside the IDF are still bickering amongst themselves about the best term to use in the after action report). At any rate, they can’t believe they only got credit for 400 kids. They were hoping for eight out of ten. I mean, when you only target hospitals and schools, what are the odds you’ll only score 25% kids? Some Zionist pig generals are going to lose their jobs over that, I’ll tell ya! Anyway, they accidentally killed a bunch of men with AK-47s and RPGs who were innocently picking up their kids at daycare, and that really fucked up the stats. Oh, and the women they were using for cover got kind of banged up, too.

Look, Shingo. You’re way too intense. The Middle East will be a mess long after we’re gone. My insouciance and your rabid commitment don’t make a God damn bit of difference. Both sides thrive on the status quo and all we can do is stand back and hope it doesn’t go nuclear.

I’ve enjoyed our little tete-a-tete, but you’re really a one trick pony and I’m getting pretty frustrated trying to get you to go beyond the white-hot rhetoric. Consider my suggestion about therapy.

rfidler,

First of all you are a liar. 

You and Jason have both posted to TD on an earllier thread, so I already knew exactly where you were comming from.

Secondly, your first post gave full support to a blatant lie posted by Jason - that Ahmadinejad had called for death camps for Jews. In other words, you demnstrated right away that you have no concern or regard for the facts, but are singularly concerned with defending Israel, right or wrong.

I have already explained what accounts for my rage.  Israel just massacred 1,300 people in Gaza, 400 of the, children.  Anyone with a shred of humanity would be outraged. The only people who are not are Israel’s staunchest defenders, who support anything and everything Israel does. 

You and Jason are obviously two of them.

There is ample evidence to support my claims, but you have not asked for any. Lieberman is regarded as a facist and racist even in Israel.  He has called for the nuking of Egypt and the drowning of Palestinians in the Dead Sea.

A mass murder took place in Gaza over December and January.  Israel have been illgeally blockading Gaza for 2 years, which was decribed by the UN Rapporteur on Human Rights as a war crime and act of genocide. Israel has been conducting a pland of enthnci cleasing since 1948.  There is no argument about that.

Last but not least, your beloved Israel is run by a group of extremists.  Netenyahu is the first leader since 1982 who is opposed to the creation of a Palestianians state.  Lieberman’s statements speak for themselves. They were both elected by the Israeli public, which demonstartes that they represent the sentiment and ideology of Israel.

Case closed.

Shingo:
Ok. For the sake of the argument, let’s say I’m all the things you accuse me of. That still doesn’t account for your rage. If I never posted to TD, you’d still be spewing your hatred and weird conspiracy theories. It still doesn’t account for the fact that you don’t feel you need to defend your position. Isn’t it possible that there are some people out there besides you and folktruther who are NOT unreconstructed Zionist shills for disagreeing with you?

I’m not arguing with you. I’ve made no claims. I’ve presented no facts. I’ve only asked you to show me the evidence for yours. I want you to support your claims, not just make them. Throwing words like genocide, torture, fascist, racist, mass murder, etc around is not proof of anything, and is not sufficient to prove your argument. Is that too much to expect without being labeled a Lieberman/Likud toady?

re: Shingo

As long as Israel is supported by the United States military, it can be as arrogant as it wants. If the United States strategically disengaged from that region, not only cutting off support to Israel, but to Egypt and the other surrounding countries, then the paradigm would be of another order.
If Israel, a nuclear weaponed state, feels so threatened by Iran or Iraq or whomever, why do they not settle this land thievery issue, which is the big bone of contention that has been going on since 1967? But yes, I forgot, Israel is also a weapons exporting state, and also consumes massive amounts of United States hardware, such as cluster bombs, which require restocking, which is what happened in the 2006 war against Lebanon. Which is also why it is no surprise that the United States rushed new bombs to Israel during the assault of Gaza, right before BHO took office.
Honesty is the last thing to be displayed in what in baseball would be described as a horseshit foreign policy. Our trusted ally Israel, so they claim, has people embedded in this country for espionage. Sometimes they get caught spying, and then the justice department has to wring its hands and decide whether or not to prosecute. I ask you: is that anyway for an ally to act?

thebeerdoctor,

That is the rub isn’t it?  Israel insists it must be recognized but refuses to allow a definition of what is to be recognized to be entered into the record.  The Arab League (22 states) have offered a peace initiative which recognizes Israel as per the 1967 borders, and Israel have rejected the offer.  In fact, Lieberman said this week that the offer was dangerous.

What this proves is that the hole recognition argument is both a stalling tactic and a ruse.  They know that the Palestinians can’t be expected to recognize Isreal until Israel return the favor and if the Palestinians do recognize Israel before negotiations Israel can argue that the occupied territories are recognized as belonging to Israel.

Even so, Israel have demonstrated nothing contempt for international opinion so what does it matter to them whether the Palestinians recognize them or not?

So Ahmadinejad is a bombastic blowhard, the same as Lieberman in Israel. What I find much more interesting is what Hamas spokesman Ahmad Youssef said:
“Why should Palestinians recognize Israel when Israel doesn’t recognize Palestine?
Which Israel are we suppose to recognize? Israel with the settlements? Israel with East Jerusalem? Or Greater Israel that includes Jordan, Lebanon, Syria…?”
There is the rub. Any proud Zionist would be caught in a fabricated denial, to not admit that there are those in the Zionist movement who dream of an ever expanding Israel, a Jewish empire, as it were, based upon a religious rationale that claims that God is on their side.
If using Biblical justification for ethnic cleansing is not a topic to be discussed at a world forum on racism, where exactly should it be?

rfidler,

>> No, really. You need psychiatric help. You’re sick.

Translation.  I have been expsed as a Zionist shill and have nothing to add to the debate.

Shingo:
No, really. You need psychiatric help. You’re sick.

Folktruther,

Zionist lemmings like Fidler are jut playing dumb and resorting to bald faced lies.  They know the score and the truth.  They have tried everything and liek I said earlier, they are in a panick because the old stunts are no longer working. 

Before the Lebanon 2006 attack, they usually got away with pretending that Israel was a peace loving state who had to defend itself.  Then along came Lebanon, and their lies were exposed by the media unlike ever before.  Then came the denials that Israel were expanding settlements in the West Bank, even thoguh they were happening before our very eyes.  Then came Gaza, which dispelled any doubts about Israel’s extremism and murderous policies.

Now that the right wing Netenyahu government has been elected, and with the right wing facist Lieberman openening hsi mouth about the true nature of Isrtael’s government, the Zionist lemmings can no longer claim that Israel is a peaceful and moderate state.  They realize there is no point in defending Israel’s actions and policies, so they are now hoping we forget about Gaza and Lebanon by pretending that nothing happened. 

Now that Netenyahu has stated unambiguously that he opposed to a 2 state solution, they can no longer claim that Israel doesn’t have a partner for peace becasue for the first time, the Palestinains want a 2 state setttlement and Israel doesn’t.

For the first time, they are experiencing the disgust of the whole world on Israel’s ethnic cleansing and are frightened. Even the ace up their sleeve, the anti-semitsm accusation, has been abused so much that it has become meaningless.

They are exposed and there is no way back.

THE REAL ISSUE:
Is the President of Iran right, or is he wrong?

Why shouldn’t the nations of the world not be unified in condemning Israel’s embargo of Gaza?

Is Israel practicing ethnic cleansing of the indigenous Palestinian population or no?

Hasn’t the Israeli regime spent the past 60 years terrorizing their neighborhood?

Why did they invade and destroy Lebanon in 2006?

Why are the Israeli and US leaders so xenophobic and psychotic? so militaristic? and aggressive? Why do they subordinate their peoples and squander their public wealth in a quest for conquest and Empire? What is wrong with these governments, and with their war-loving policies?

Are the leaders of Israel anything other than racist in the treatment of Palestinians? Why did the Israeli Army cover-up the murder of Rachael Corrie?

Some Israelis, as well as a growing number of Jewish Americans think that the Israeli government’s activities go way beyond racism -and they characterize these as“fascistic.” The President of Iran did not go that far in the Racism Conference.

We know that Israel is NOT a democracy: they do not have a written Constitution, a Bill of Rights, and Jewish religious folks get preference in matters of citizenship, ownership, and within their trump-up and biased courts. Palestinians are treated like animals by the Israeli state, military, and police. This cannot be democratic: it sounds like a VIOLENT THEOCRATIC STATE to me.

The government of Israel practices mass incarceration (based on ethnicity and cultural identity,they torture prisoners to get names of associates so that the IDF can go and assassinate these “people of the book,” and during these military assaults randomly murder any Palestinians that interferes, or happen, circumstantially, to be in the KILL ZONE -especially unarmed women and children.

The World knows what we are looking at—murderers –- operating in the umbrella of institutional government TERROR as POLICY.

Those who walked out of the World Racism Conference seek to avoid the truth.

Those who exited the Conference acted like “white” supremacist that back Zionist supremacist. Good riddance to these dogmatic supporters from “white” nations that glorify supremacy and torture.

Shame on America, and Canada, especially, for walking out of this conference! There was no reason to leave.

Instead, lets get real and face the reality of racism—along with the majority of nations:

Israel reportedly has 200 nuclear weapons. If there is going to be a genuine peace then Israel must be stripped of these nukes. They can set an example by destroying their nuclear arsenal: the world cannot permit one nation to act like a blood-thirsty insaniac,to perpetually threaten their neighbors with wars of aggression, and to implicitly threaten nuclear assault when other people and nations arm themselves in defense against this injustice and against these unwarranted threats of war.

In the Name of All-of-Humanity,

>>A.Z. Arrow

The amazement of Zionist lemmings like Fidler on attacks of his racism is a consequence of the Zionist censorship of the American media.  He simply does not hear or has encountered the disgust of the whole world on Israel’s ethnic cleansing. 

Which he supports with the other Zionist lemmings, like Jason.  Since any attack of Zionist opprssion is cosidered anti-semitsm by Zionism, he is not prepared for attacks based a simple justice and political decency.  Not possesing any himself.

This just in: 

http://www.chinaview.cn  2009-04-25 02:35:41  

  GENEVA, April 24 (Xinhua)—The United Nations’ top human rights official on Friday denounced a behind-the-scenes “campaign of disinformation” trying to depict a major UN anti-racism conference as a failure.

  “Already the propaganda machine is starting to wind up, to term this conference a failure. And I quote, a ‘hate-fest,’ and all the rest of it. This is extraordinary,” Navi Pillay, the UN high commissioner for human rights, told journalists on the final day of the Druban Review Conference.

  “It was very difficult, I had to face a widespread and highly organized campaign of disinformation,” she said.

  Pillay did not say clearly who was behind the “disinformation campaign,” but she pointed to the role of some non-governmental organizations (NGOs).

  The five-day Durban Review Conference was aimed to review the world’s anti-racism progress since the last UN conference was held in Durban, South Africa in 2001.

  The conference adopted an outcome document on Tuesday calling for greater resolve and political will in fighting all forms of racism, despite the boycott of the conference by the United States, Israel and several other Western countries citing concerns it could be used as a forum to criticize Israel.

      x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

Oh, heaven forfend that Israel should be criticized!

rfidler,

Yes I do kow you, better than you thin, because I’ve seen too many others just like you have come before and exhibited the same traits, use the same talking ponits and the same sleazy MO by pretending to be an impartial observer who can’t understand the criticism levelled at Israel.

Only an unconditional Israel-lover/apologist can claim not to understand the fierce criticism directed at Israel after they recently massacred 1,300 people (400 of them children) in Gaza.

It’s very easy to attribute so much to someone you don’t know, becasue you make it very easy. Your first post to this thread was to defend Jason, someone who made an outrageous claim based on no evidence or facts.
Your first post was also attempt at outrage and having seen that fail, you are now pretneding to be calm and reasonable in the hope that this proves something.  It’s doesn’t. It’s text book Hasbara stuff.

There is no point pretending you are something you are not.  You are a Zionist shill, who like other Zionist shills, are finding that your old lies and predictable attempts to derail the debate on Israel are failing.  Your lot are in a panick and desperately trying everything you have, but it’s no longer working is it?

slumlord:
What are you talking about?

Shingo:
Do you know me? Do I know you? How can you attribute so much to someone you don’t know. All I know about you is your bottomless rage (and the fact that you’re in such a hurry to post that you don’t bother with your countless typos). Well I do know that you condemn “Israel blindly and unconditionally.” I just want to understand why. That DOES NOT make me an unconditionalIsrael-lover or apologist.

Now calm down.

How can a state that categorically and consistently upholds the rights of an immigrant ethnic group over those of the indigenous people there not be considered racist?

Mahmoud was merely telling the truth.  The man is a yokel most of the time, but sometimes he’s right.

How can a state that categorically upholds the rights of its migrant population over those of the people indigenous to its land not be considered racist?

Mahmoud was merely telling the truth.  The man is a yokel most of the time, but sometimes he’s right.

Judging from the majority of enlightened posters who posted in favor of the Iranian President and criticized those who walked out of the conference hall, the title of this piece should be entitled:

“Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and the Incredible Expanding Audience.”

Some poster here alluded to those who walked out as eager to go and collect their checks from the Zionist Propaganda Machine. I think this was a clever observation that did not even occur to me. So, I am curious if we ever will be lucky to get an investigative report on how much money those zombies have received!

“You support Israel blindly and unconditionally.” is exactly correct. i know plenty of them and its undeniable. what they dont know is while im sitting there nodding in agreement, in the back of my head im wondering how long until they get another beatdown for that backwards ass philosophy they preach to each other.

rfidler,

Of course you love Israel.  You supoort Israel blindly and unconditionally.  If you were as open minded as you would have us believe, then you would have found that no one on this forum has ever denied Israel’s right to exist.  This is a text book red herring that exists only in the mind of Israel’s amen corner.

Asking why ISrael is hated is like asking why Gemrnay was hated after 1939.  It wasn’t Germany that was hated, nor even the Germans, but the actions and policies of thge German government. No one here condones Mugabe either, but that doesn’t mean it’s because of a hatred for Zimbabwe or blacks Africans for that matter.

The fact is, you knwo why Israel is being condemened.  You just refuse to aknowledge Israel’s crimes and thus, pretend that this is all about hatred towards Jews.  What other state massacres 1300 people, and then defends this as a moral act?  What other state dismisses all crimticism as racism?

It’s not puzzling to you, it’s just very inconvenient and hard for you to accept, because it if you were to be honest, you would have to admit that Israel is a racist and violent state with immoral policies.

So like any typical Israeli applogist, rather than accept the obovious, you endeavour to point to other states with poor human rights records and insist we focus on them instead.  It’s so predictable and tiresome and we are all too familir with this tactic.

Why do so many focus on the plight of the Palestinians?  Becasue for 60 years, Israel has murderd them, stolen from them and convinced the world that it need to continue doing so to maintin it’s existence.  It’s like listening to a drug addict making a case for why he/she should be allowed to keep on stealing and killing, in order to maintain their habbit.

Who “exposed” Israel as racist and warmongering? Why Israelis hemselves of course - time and time again. We only have to listen to the likes of Lierbemrna, Begin, Shamir, Ben Gurion and the like.  You see, while these political leaders maintain a facade or civlity, they innevitably let their guard down and expose their true nature and that nature is one of racism, facism and violence.

I could list dozens of quotes from these said people if you need confirmation.

>> What specific power do Zionists have over so many politicians in the world that they would boycott/walk out of the Racism Conference?

The same power that Olmert boasted about when he interrupted George Bush during a speech he was giving and ordered him to force Condi rice from abstaining from voting on a UN resolution she herself had drafted.

>> This is just a bunch of like-minded anti-Zionists sitting around reinforcing each other’s opinion and thereby thinking it’s fact.

No, it’s all too obvious.  Your hero, Lieberman, let the cat out of the bag again this week.

“Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman assures the world of Tel Aviv’s influence on the White House and any new peace initiative.

During his first comprehensive interview on foreign policy since taking office, Lieberman said the administration of US President Barack Obama would put forth new peace initiatives only if Israel wants it to.

“Believe me, America accepts all our decisions,” he told Russian daily Moskovskiy Komosolets. “

http://www.presstv.com/detail.aspx?id=92177

It must be so embarrasing having to make your case when the leaders of the state you slavishly support shoot their mouths off so often.

>> I think these are all fair questions and don’t make me a blind apologist for Israel, or a racist, or a bigot.

I don’t need to make you one.  You did that all by yourself.

Shingo:
I don’t love Israel, and I don’t hate Israel. I mere think that Israel should be allowed to exist along side Palestine. I am not defending Lieberman in any way. In the current world political environment, the Netanyahu government probably won’t last very long anyway.

I just don’t understand your need to hate Israel so much. What is it about Israel’s existence that makes your life worse than it would otherwise be? Your and others’ constant, kneejerk criticism of Israel is very puzzling. Why do you pick on Israel as being a greater source of human misery than say, China? Why have you chosen the Palestinians as your favorite victims?

And who “exposed” Israel as racist and warmongering? The Human Rights Commission? What specific power do Zionists have over so many politicians in the world that they would boycott/walk out of the Racism Conference? This is just a bunch of like-minded anti-Zionists sitting around reinforcing each other’s opinion and thereby thinking it’s fact.

I think these are all fair questions and don’t make me a blind apologist for Israel, or a racist, or a bigot. And again, I don’t understand your stridency. Where does all this passion come from?

It didn’t need to be orchestrated by anyone other than career diplomats who as usual, were climbing over each other to demonstrate their submission to their Zionist lobbying masters.

What better way to score brownie points than to do so while the cameras were rolling?

By Shingo, April 23 at 11:26 pm #

Here is a great grilling given to the UK foreign diplomat who walked out by a UK journalist.

  x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

Good link. An obvious stunt, all right. Orchestrated by whom, do you suppose?

rfidler,

How pathetic do you feel?  Now that your beloved Israel has been exposed as a fascist, racist and war mongering state, all you have left up your sleeve is to shriek like a banshee. Like your buddy Jason, your contributions are nothing more than hit and run posts based on pure BS.  And like Jason, you will also prove to be a coward and run away,

You are defending the racist and extremist bile coming from Lieberman. Now remind us, who is really sick?

Shame on TruthDig. Every one of these comments, save Jason!!‘s is absolutely pathetic. You people are sick.

Here is a great grilling given to the UK foreign diplomat who walked out by a UK journalist.

http://palestinethinktank.com/2009/04/23/incredible-grilling-of-uk-diplomat/

The British diplomat admits that the walkout was premeditated and a cheap political stunt.

I want enlightened people on these threads to take notice that many centuries before there was white European America, Iran was the center of great civilization that enriched human lives everywhere. So Ahmadinejad is the product of a rich ancient culture and value system that produced the following wisdom:

“He who knows not,
And knows not that he knows not,
Is a fool- shun him!
He who knows not,
And knows that he knows not,
Is a child- teach him!
He who knows,
And knows not that he knows,
Is asleep- wake him!
He who knows that he knows,
Is wise- follow him!

Obviously Israel is a racist country, both in theory and in practice.

“YOU take my water, burn my olive trees, destroy my house, take my job, steal my land, imprison my father, kill my mother, starve us all, humiliate us all but I am to blame: I shot a rocket back…”

“…a reporter asks a captured official of the FLN: “Isn’t it a dirty thing to use women’s baskets to carry bombs to kill innocent people? “  To which the official answers, “And you? Doesn’t it seem even dirtier to you to drop napalm bombs on defenseless villages with thousands of innocent victims?  It would be a lot easier for us if we had planes.  Give us your bombers, and we’ll give you our baskets.”  Battle of Algiers.  Consider reading Wretched of the Earth, Frantz Fanon.

I respect the Palestinian people. They have the fortitude to stand up against the illegal aggressors.  I have no respect for those (individually or collectively) who wrongfully accuse another in order to justify their own illegal actions.

Folktruther,

If indeed Sepharad was attempting to convince anyone that the Palestinians don’t have a state because they don’t want one, then is has been an obvious failure.  No amount of sugar coating or civilized discourse can make it otherwise.  As they say, you can polish a turd, but it’s still a turd. 

Now that the gloves are off and Lieberman is not even pretending play nice, any efforts at damage control are doomed.  He has flatly rejected the notion of land for peace, which has been a defacto PR policy for the Israeli government since 1967.  And now, he has rejected the Arab peace initiative, even though George Mitchell says it will be part of the Obama Administration’s official policy.

Sepharad is an intelligent, personable journalist who is a racist, Zionist fanatic whose jounalistic task is damange control where Zionism can’t censor the truth.  Her latet spin is proposing as conceiviable that the Palestinians don’t have a state because they don’t want one.  This type of drivel is interspersed with reason and specialized truths.  It is very clever and completely dishonest.

I thought I was beyond being shocked by the hypocrisy of countries like Britain on this issue (and many others)but to my surprise I’m shocked and disgusted. To see Britain, a country that should have sent Blair to the Hague as a war criminal and that should have been charged with war crimes itself for its activities in Ireland reacting this way to a mere statement of historical fact from the leader of Iran - a country that certainly can’t be counted on to turn up at every military invasion America holds and doesn’t hold invasions itself is enough to make you sick. Britain can pull a stunt like the Falklands war, and still expect to point the finger at others and sit in judgement on them. For hundreds of years it was the Christian Europeans who persecuted and murdered the Jews (Henry the II ordered a mass deporation of Jews from England: these people ended up in Poland - do I need to go on?)and it’s one of those monstrous injustices of history that the Arabs have been the whipping boys for all of it for around 60 years. I heard a Palestinian woman being interviewed who was born in a refugee camp in Lebanon. She’s been there ever since. ‘I’ve been a refugee for 61 years’ she said. There are fanatics in Israel who think that the Greater Israel extends all the way to the Jordan River and includes Syria and Lebanon. And all this noise about Iran is, as ever, a distraction from the real situation and their real plans. And all the Alice in Wonderland stuff with Mr. Abyss (correct spelling) hides a stark truth: the people of Gaza are marked for destruction and America is playing into Israel’s hands, as it always does. America refused even to attend this conference on racism. Well how could it attend? Unless it was going to stand up there and say mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

And just a thought: Winston Churchill used poison gas on the Iraqis in the 1930’s. He liked the whole idea of it immensely. He said it was a wonderful weapon that ‘spread a lively terror’ and put those Arabs in their place. Hitler would have agreed wholeheartedly: he always admired the British and in fact he took Churchill’s ideas to a whole new level of terror. These days it’s white phosphorus bombs. The more things change the more they stay the same. Amusedly, you’re certainly amusing me. The Arabs invented algebra, the word ‘algebra’ comes from the title of an Arabic book. Try doing any of the things you’re talking about without science and algebra - both founded almost completely on Arab scholarship. This claim that the Jews are somehow superior is natural enough from a people who have been persecuted and often turned into the ‘other’- so necessary a part of xenophobia and it’s twin, war. But to do to the Arabs what has been done to you is not admirable nor is it a sign of intelligence.

By Oceana, April 23 at 3:24 am #

“President Ahmadinejad spoke the truth at the conference.  Whether one wants to hear it or not is another matter to be addressed.  Whether you like him or not is irrelevant because he spoke the truth.”
=================================================
Excellent post, Oceana, and pure truth! A must read for everyone who is interested in truth and the justice that naturally follows if we are in the business of making this world better for everyone!

Thank you! I enjoyed reading every word of it!

Fadel Abdallah,

One can be opposed to the Shah and still be unhappy with the outcome in Iran after the 1979 Revolution.  One need only consider what took place in Iraq.  Before Saddam was removed, many were keen to seem him replaced until they were faced with the reality of the alternative.  One need not have been a member of the Savak to fall into this category.

President Ahmadinejad spoke the truth at the conference.  Whether one wants to hear it or not is another matter to be addressed.  Whether you like him or not is irrelevant because he spoke the truth.

The aggressors (Israeli government, U.S.A. government, England and others) want to continue to blame the victim when they themselves are guilty of the crime.  They will not accept any responsibility for their acts of aggression committed against another people due to colonialism (any form of it), imperial domination and military occupation.

Ethnic cleansing (massacres and genocide) took place in 1948 that included forcing people from their homes, farms, businesses, communities, villages and land. Up to this very moment in time we continue to see more of the same. One does not need to look far if willing to see with eyes wide open letting the scales of propaganda and false belief dissolve. Original documents are available to be read and they speak for themselves. 

It is mind boggling that the content of this conference was ‘held hostage’ even before it began as though no racism is taking place in our world today.  Apparently, we all are pristine.  That is absurd! Just as many are awakening to the lie that the U.S.A. doesn’t torture when in fact the U.S.A. has always tortured long before the Bush II regime while always moralizing to the world on good and evil and proclaiming itself to be good; many are awakening to the truth about the myth of Israel and those nations and religion (Christian Zionists) and people who are supporting and capitalizing on it.  The U.S. government has blood on its hand.  And that blood is transferring to the people collectively.  This nation will be held accountable if the people continue to keep their head in the sand by believing in the myth of its own nation and that of another.

I support President Ahmadinejad putting the act of racism manifested in various forms on the table (clearly and succinctly) and naming the nations who are supporting such acts. Other acts of racism surely would follow by others. He legitimized the conference!

Those who walked out, individually and collectively, lacked courage, virtue and maturity.  President Ahmadinejad morally stood above them.  I salute those who remained seated.  The conference participants now had something real and relevant to contend with that could not be vetoed by one vote erasing/overruling the majority vote. 

The truth is hard to bear after so many years feeding lies, accepting myths as literal and supporting these acts of aggression whether financially or by silence. May we all be willing to have the courage to see what is most difficult to be seen and then to act. 

When truth is acknowledged consequences will follow and only then is justice possible.

http://www.occupation101.com

By Sepharad, April 22 at 5:30 pm #

“My Iranian friends, in exile since ‘79 because they helped dump the Shah then found out the clerics were even worse, say pretty much what freedom lover posted.”
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Sepharad, what you wrote above is typical of how you craftily keep spinning the facts. So accordingly, your so-called Iranian friends, who helped dump the Shah, where already in flight at the time of the Iranian revolution, without waiting for few months to see how the new regime is going to fare.

So what you say is a flat lie! At worst, more likely, those Iranian friends of yous were members of the brutal Savak secret police of the Shah, who were trained by the Israeli Mossad to become the most brutal secret service history has known. They rushed to leave the country right after the success of the revolution to scape the possibility of justice. The fact that they were admitted to America in such speed, not typical to the long process of several years that it takes immigrants or asylum seekers to process their paper work is a proof that those friends of yours were criminals who worked against the Iranian people in their support of the evil Shah, may God curse his memory! Your Iranian friends, at best, were some of the secular elite who knew that they will not be able to keep their corrupted lifestyle under the new revolution.

So again, your claim that those Iranian friends of yours helped topple the Shah is either a big lie or a figment of your twisted imagination.

And since I am at it, let me tell you why Israel hates Islamic Iran so much and it’s etching for a fight with it. During the Shah, political-military Israel, and the Mossad in particular, had free reign in Iran, almost running the country and receiving lucrative financial rewards in the forms of free oil and big weapon sales. All this came to an end after the Iranian Revolution in 1979.

Most likely, that so-called “freedom lover” you applaud is one of your cohorts in propaganda. So further advice to you Sepharad! Stop spreading your lies and spinning the facts, especially since you know that there are very knowledgeable intellectuals and specialists in the field of Middle Eastern history on these threads who can easily explode your lies any myths!

Fadel Abdallah,

With all due respects Fadel, for someone who holds completely different ideas on Israel, this was well put.

I don’t believe in throwing out the baby with the bathwater Fadel.

By Shingo, April 22 at 6:22 pm #

Wonderfully put Sepharad.
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Wrong, short-sighted and superficially read, Shingo! Sepharad’s post is “wonderfully” twisted and craftily spun. I am surprised that you fell for such spinning!

Wonderfully put Sepharad.

My Iranian friends, in exile since ‘79 because they helped dump the Shah then found out the clerics were even worse, say pretty much what freedom lover posted.

I think the Americans who didn’t attend and the Euros who walked out during Ahmadinejad’s speech were wrong. If they disagreed, they should have made their own speeches. The flow and exchange of information is a good thing. I’m a Zionist and no damned racist, with a mixed-race family and a Muslim in-law. None of my family who came to Palestine in 1828 were racists either. There should be two states, with Israel helping Palestinians to build theirs (because other Jews along with a few small countries helped the Jews get started, but no one, especially other Arabs, seem willing to help the Palestinians do anything but be pawns in asymmetric warfare). Have much more detailed quotes on these subjects on different threads but lack the time to say everything here all over again. Read Benny Morris’ “One State, Two States” and Amos Oz’s “Please Help Us Divorce.” Look at latest issue of Atlantic Monthly’s article on Palestinians not having a state because they don’t want one. I haven’t read it yet, suspect it reflects wishes of Palestinian leaders rather than the population at large, but purports to be based on some studies.

Main point here—don’t walk out of international dialogues. Talk.

puppets everyone of them, every word this man said is the truth. the usa is another puppet government run by the zionist

Tony- Obama’s failure to support Freeman indicates that his heart is in the right place?  I suppose that would also be the case for his failure to end torture or to prosecute it.

Folkie,

It remains to be seen about Obama. It seems to me that many Zionists are worried about him, and they might have good reason to be. You have some Zionists around him, but you also have people like Brezinski, who, whatever his faults, can’t reasonably be called a Zionist. And what about Charles Freeman? I really like that guy, a powerful voice and a true anti-Zionist without a touch of anti-Semitism. The Israel Lobby managed to deepsix his appointment, but still it indicated to me that Obama’s heart is in the right place.

I’m not saying, Tony, that I would like a Jewish state or want to live in one.  I’m not a nationalist.  But nationalism isn’t a political crime.  It only becomes one when it is used to oppress other people.

Israel was founded on ethnic cleansing.  But since the population is there despite past crimes, the only choice is to leave them there while making amends to the Palestinian population, or ethnic cleansing the Israelis.  A two state solution was the obvious historical solution at one point.

But Isreal pretends to be a state of ALL THE JEWISH PEOPLE ALL OVER THE WORLD, not a state of its present population. That’s rediculous.  And it is sacrificing security concerns for colonial expansion.

And it is continuing its historical ethnic cleansing.  This is much worse than racism or apartheid.  And it is going coninually to the right.
to the criminal right.  The president was indicted for rape, the premier for bribery, the foreign minister for finanacial fraud if the police aren’t intimidated.  It’s the same form of Elitist corruption as in the US.

There is no solution to the Israeli problem but poltical-military defeating the Zionist power structure.  The solution to Hamas bombarding towns with its primitive weapons is giving them anti-tank and anti-air missiles to defend themselves from the Israeli military.  This might force Israel to concede another state or it might not.  If it doesn’t, Israel as a state will most likely be destroyed, with massive bloodshed of both Jews and Arabs.

The reason that Israeli pursues this death strategy is because this religious nationalism is not subject to reason.  You simply can’t argue with Zionist lemmings, and the sophisticated ones, like Sepharad are even worse.  They are deluded fanatics.  Precisely what Gibbon calls the ancient Hebrews that rose up to fight the Roman empire.

The only thing that might change matters is if the American people distinguish anti-semitism from anti-zionisn and get the anti-zionists out of US power, so the US can force the Israelis to be reasonable.  But since Obama was put in power largely by Zionist neoliberals, this is unlikely to happen during his rule.

Three cheers for Mr. Ahmadinejad and to those who remained!

Tony Wicher,

Well said. What call for death camps? This is complete insanity having no relation to reality whatsoever. Jason is so brainwashed by Israeli propaganda he has no idea what is happening in the real world.

It’s become almost too easy to swatt away these pesky Zionist wingnuts.  Even the so called “intelligent” ones are looking increasingly pathetic and vulnerable, because the lies that have formed the cornerstone of their arguments for so long have been increasignly exposed.  All the Jason’s of hsi world have left is to be shrill and make shit up in the hope that passes for debate.

By Folktruther, April 21 at 2:24 pm #

No, Tony, a ZIONIST state is incompatible with democracy, human rights, etc.  A sstate of mostly Jews that protects the rights of minorities is not any more racist than a state of Poles or Christians.

      X X X X X X X X X X X X X

Folkie,

This is an interesting theoretical question. What is the difference in theory between a “Zionist state” and a “Jewish state”? Israel is supposed to be just what you describe: a state of mostly Jews that protects the rights of minorities, and therefore has as much right to be called a democracy as any other. What is Zionism, then, but the project of establishing such a state? So what is the problem, then? Well, the state of Israel is artificial. It was founded by forcibly dispossessing the original inhabitants of the country to create an artificial supermajority of Jews. That history itself makes Israel different than some naturally occurring majority Jewish country - a thing has never existed in history, in my opinion - Jews have been a nomadic, international people from the very beginning, and much of their uniqueness and greatness lies in that. The politics of creating and maintaining creatingthis artificial majority necessarily involves racial discrimination. There are white people in this country who worry that by the year 2035 the United States will be majority non-white. These people would no doubt like to have immigration quotas to limit the number of non-white immigrants. What would you call such a law? I would call it racist.

Because some people walked out of the meeting that does not imply that Ahmedinejad is wrong.

President Carter has called the treatment of Palestinians by Israel “apartheid”.

I seem to remember vaguely that “apartheid” is considered to be based on racism.

The fundamental truth is that most Israelis consider Palestinians to be inferior to themselves, say another Middle Eastern sort of “Untermenschen”.

No, Tony, a ZIONIST state is incompatible with democracy, human rights, etc.  A sstate of mostly Jews that protects the rights of minorities is not any more racist than a state of Poles or Christians.
If it were possible to have a two state solution in the Middle East, as liberal Zionists pretend to want, that would solve the historical proablem of the wretched country. 

But the Zionist power structure has chosen imperialism over security, and the Zionist lemmings echo it as they head for the historical cliff.

Re Shingo, April 21 at 9:08 am #

Jason!!,

>> to anyone responding favorably to Ahmadinejad’s call for death camps

Don’t mistake information for the voices in your head.

  x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x x

Well said. What call for death camps? This is complete insanity having no relation to reality whatsoever. Jason is so brainwashed by Israeli propaganda he has no idea what is happening in the real world.

The fact is that the idea of a Jewish state is incompatible with democracy, human rights, justice and peace. The existence of anti-Semitism, which is real, is no excuse. As your mother probably told you, two wrongs do not make one right.

Jason!!,

>> to anyone responding favorably to Ahmadinejad’s call for death camps

Don’t mistake information for the voices in your head.  You could never produce a quote from Ahmadinejad calling for any such ideas, so there is no point in asking you to link to them.

It’s must be so painful to have to defend a rabbid racist society like Israel.  Do you live there, or is it too racist even for you?

to anyone responding favorably to Ahmadinejad’s call for death camps:

You are a rabid racist with no clothes.

and being that you love this man so much, please, please go live there.

Having just finished reading all previous comments, I’m amazed and delighted: it’s rare to find such unanimity, anywhere, in calling out Zionist/Israeli bullshit.

Ahmadinejad stated the obvious. Zionism is the elephant in the room that prevents any peace in the middle east and as long as the US and its allies refuse to accept reality and deal with it nothing will change. It is a shame it takes an Ahmadinejad to speak the truth.

Ahmedinejad is indeed as subtle as a brick, which is too bad because the substance of what he was saying was true. That walkout was hypocritical bullshit if I ever saw it. As Ban-ki Moon said, why did they walk out? They should have stayed and presented their own position. They ran like cowards, is what they did, because there is no doubt about and no answer to the fact of Israeli atrocities.

Ahmadinejad is about a subtle as a brick, which is a shame, because what he said was pretty accurate.  The behavior of those delegates to storm out like that was petulant and childish.

I’m sure their checks are in the mail.

clearly “delegates” don’t want to admit what most of the world knows in pretty uncertain terms: Zionism is racism.  Israeli aggression and land theft against the native Palestinians is the cause of the conflict, which continues unabated for 60+ years.  Israeli “leaders” are often openly racist in Israeli media.  This is no secret. 

Israeli occupation forces out of D.C.

Thank you Mahmoud Ahmadinejad for your mighty truthful words!

The racists and hypocrites of the world could not stand the heat in your kitchen of truth, so they filed out like frightened little midgets in the face of the giant that you represent.

Their flight from the chamber is a medal of honor for you since it shows their true colors!