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May 21, 2013
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 ‘Left, Right & Center’: Tea Parties and TorturePosted on Apr 17, 2009
Did the nationwide “tea parties” on April 15 constitute a much-needed boost for the Republican base? Was the Obama administration right to release the latest batch of torture memos from the Bush years? Not surprisingly, “Left, Right & Center” commentators Tony Blankley, Robert Scheer and Arianna Huffington don’t always see eye to eye on these and other topics on this week’s show. KCRW: Advertisement TAGS:
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Too Soon to Tell: The Case for Hope, Continued
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© 2013 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.
By MarthaA, April 20, 2009 at 10:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
PSmith:
The NEW CLASS isn’t talked about much, many times the NEW CLASS is referred to as the middle class, as the NEW CLASS is the elite of the middle class. To help gain understanding of this NEW CLASS that is the problem for the country as a whole and from where all the various problems you specify are coming, you should read Barbara Ehrenreich’s book, The Fear of Falling: The Inner Life of the Middle Class. It is a must read for understanding. This NEW CLASS upper crust coalition of Democrats led by the right wing lobbiest led fascist DLC are running the government.
We do need to get the corporations out of our government, but, since we aren’t listened to, we can’t do it until our main problem of getting representation for the 70% Common Class and Culture in all forms of our government and law is handled, because after the NEW CLASS formation, all the rest of the population have been marginalized to insignificance, nearly relegated to the trash heap as far as whether their opinions matter, and we will not be able to actually remedy anything as long as 70% of the population are being totally ignored. Even animals know there is safety when herded together, it is time for the Common Population realize we are insignificant unless we come together and unify as the Common Class and Culture we are and request representation, because we are NOT being represented in Congress or any other form of government.
The problem in our government is more than just Democrats against Republicans, there is duopoly government between the two parties to represent the upper 30% of the population, leaving the lower 70% of our population, the common class and culture out of the picture.
The problem is very complicated and can not be remedied without a new political party with representatives for the 70% MAJORITY Common Class and Culture, that the upper 30% do not want to recognize, but 70% of the people are not being represented in Congress of the United States and the states and the law.
Report thisBy MooseHead, April 20, 2009 at 2:19 pm Link to this comment
Good show! Some old things confirmed, some new happened this time!
Tony is good at debating. No doubt. To jump on your opponents shaky reference and pound him until he starts fumbling is a good strategy and skill. Doesn’t make you right though. But skill nevertheless. As usual Tony was arguing from his mind and Robert from his heart (and without much preparation). Strangely, Arianna did not come to the rescue of fumbling Robert either, which was disappointing.
What was shocking to me that Robert brought up Nuremberg process as a reference in a discussion about torture. Not Geneva Convention, that directly relates to this topic of torture and proofs Robert’s point that what we did was actual torture, but Nuremberg . I would’ve love to ask Tony if he would like to try waterboarding, and those cute insects he brought up as an example and tell us afterward was it torture or not.
The very obvious and clumsy attempt to minimize this issue (and perhaps the lamest moment of Tony in this show) was when he said that putting caterpillar on your chest is not a torture and got very angry how somebody can lower their assessment of what torture is to that ridiculous level… C’mon Tony, do you think we all are idiots here? Nobody does reading at all and just listens to LRC once a week?
We all have to prepare for the show. And Robert next time has to prepare a bit better, especially for the topic of this importance.
May be read, and at least mention once Leo Strauss would be good too. Just to put it all mess in a perspective for everyone. And let them do reading on their on after that.
Until next time, folks!
Report thisBy MarthaA, April 20, 2009 at 9:02 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
Interview of person who uncovered the Keating 5 Bank Scandal has uncovered a coverup of even much worse, which is the members of the NEW CLASS DLC Democrats/Republican Coalition:
Report thishttp://www.brasschecktv.com/page/604.html
By guntotinsquaw, April 20, 2009 at 8:52 am Link to this comment
oops that’s should NOT lump them together, FYI don’t let the baby push buttons while your typing not is know somewhere in that paragragh…hee hee
Report thisONE IF BY LAND
By guntotinsquaw, April 20, 2009 at 8:46 am Link to this comment
OUTRAGED, I stand corrected, I should lump them all together. Truly I would have been fine to have given all those people scammed their money back, more so over it being spent to study a mouse or catch mosquitos. At this rate we are all going to be poor again….............They told me if I voted for McCain, the nation’s Hope would deteriorate, and sure enough there has been a 20 point drop in the Consumer Confidence Index since the election, reaching a lower point than any time during the Bush administration. They told me if I voted for McCain, the US would become more deeply embroiled in the Middle East, and sure enough tens of thousands of additional troops are scheduled to be deployed into Afghanistan . They told me if I voted for McCain, that the economy would get worse and sure enough unemployment is approaching 8.8% and the new stimulus packages implemented recently have sent the stock market lower than at any time since 9-11. They told me if I voted for McCain, we would see more “crooks” in high ranking positions in Federal government and sure enough, several recent cabinet nominees and Senate appointments revealed resumes of scandal, bribery and tax fraud. They told me if I voted for McCain, we would see more “Pork at the trough” in Federal government and sure enough, 17,500 “Pork Bills” showed up in Congress in the past three weeks… They told me if I voted for McCain, we would see more deficit spending in DC and sure enough, They have spent more in 30 days than all other Presidents together in the history of the good’ole USA .... Well, I ignored my Democrat friends in November and voted for McCain. And they were right I voted for McCain and .... All of their predictions have come true. See if I ever vote for him again! .......I had to post this, it was on a chat room I visit…..and I’m laughing my ass off. ONE IF BY LAND
Report thisBy MarthaA, April 20, 2009 at 2:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
PSmith:
If we of the common population as a diverse class of people will unite into the 70% majority common class and culture of the United States that we really are, we can obtain real representation in this democracy, but to obtain actual representation, we must unite as one and make our stand against the two classes, the 20% NEW CLASS and the 10% Elite Capitalist Class for the common good, for our Common Class & Cultures representation. We as a 70% majority must together demand of our government that we have another constitutionally legislated political party set up with representatives to represent the 70% majority population common class and culture equally with the other two classes and cultures, as there are three distinct classes and cultures: The Elite Capitalist Class and Culture, the NEW Class and Culture and the Common Class and Culture. It is not hard to recognize that there are three distinctly different political classes and cultures in the United States. It is time that there be a third legislative body in Congress to represent that third class and culture, the Common Class and Culture of the United States. England has always recognized the common class and culture, it is time the United States government recognize the common class and culture as well.
Report thisBy MarthaA, April 20, 2009 at 2:09 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
PSmith:
When in control of the government, the fascist ELITE CAPITALIST REPUBLICAN conservatives were so EXTREME in their governing that no aware individuals of the 70% common population will ever in and of themselves accept REPUBLICANS back again in government, their destruction of the common population was too evident, so unless the Obama administration somehow can change the government so that the 70% common population can be recognized as a 70% diverse united class and culture, instead of as individuals separated out of the herd, so that their united population’s class and culture will be recognized politically, in order for the common population to have a third constitutionally legislated political party with representatives and Senators in the Congress of the United States to actually represents the people of the 70% majority common population; if not the greater majority of people in the United States will continue to go unrepresented as individuals, instead of as the massive diverse class and cultural population they really are and the 70% majority common population, the common class and culture of the United States, will continue to be marginalized politically by both Republicans and Democrats as separate inconsequential individuals to be toyed with politically; separated politically as separate individuals, even though united
they are the awesome 70% majority common population.
But when the political parties are allowed to marginalized as individuals a whole class and culture, the whole class and culture is unable to compete politically with even one tiny minority class and culture, much less two minority classes and cultures. The united diverse common population is a class and culture in and of themselves, but even though they are a class and culture in and of themselves, politically they have been marginalized to where it is difficult for them to unite and become identified as the common class and culture, the 70% Common Population, relegating the whole 70% majority common population to be identified politically as separate individuals against the minority class and cultural identities of the DEMOCRATS 20% NEW CLASS minority and the REPUBLICANS 10% ELITE CAPITALIST CLASS minority, causing the 70% majority common population to have hardly a chance of having a place at the table for actual representation for their entire class and culture, which is the only way individuals will ever get representation in government of the United States. IT IS TIME FOR THIS POLITICAL WORM TO TURN. It is time for a CHANGE. It is time we of the 70% common class and culture realize the awesome power we really are and unite under the banner of the Common Class and Culture, the 70% COMMON POPULATION for representation. We of the common population must unite and agitate strongly for our own political party to represent our 70% majority common population, like in England, or we will never have political representation for the 70% common population in our own country and will always be minimized and marginalized to beg,whine and contend for representation of what we deem serious, trying to somehow eek out representation, but never achieving actual representation, as the elite’s political party, the REPUBLICANS, only represents the elite capitalists and the elite-lites NEW CLASS political party, the DEMOCRATS, only represents the elite-lite’s political interests.
Report thisBy MarthaA, April 20, 2009 at 1:37 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
PSmith:
If people of the common population will think about it, there is nothing the REPUBLICANS could have done to hurt the common population economically without the Democrats assistance. Alan Greenspan made it plain than President Bill Clinton was the best REPUBLICAN President EVER, because Bill Clinton set up the way for the REPUBLICANS to do what they did economically to the common population. The DEMOCRATIC PARTY has assisted the REPUBLICAN PARTY in their every effort to accomplish the plans of the 30% Democrat/Republican Coalition, which has proven through the years to always be without benefit to the rest of the nation’s population, the 70% majority common populous, the common population, who have lost and are continuing to lose their jobs, homes, savings,retirement, etc. account the political agreements between the DEMOCRATS and the REPUBLICANS; e.g, NAFTA,CAFTA, etc. that are a part of the PNAC Republican/Democrat plan for free trade for them, not you, not us of the common population.
The NEW CLASS identifying themselves as a separate political class from the common population destroyed any kind of thought that there could be democracy for and by the people of the 70% majority common population without further constitutional legislation to that effect, as democracy only covers the classes and cultures of the upper 30%, since there are only two (2) political parties. The NEW CLASS got in front of Governor Dean and still runs the DEMOCRATIC PARTY, and the ELITE CAPITALIST CLASS will always run the REPUBLICAN PARTY, which is why when the polls all say that the majority of the people want the war to end—nothing is done, OR the polls say that the majority of the people want the Bush administration punished—nothing happens, OR when the polls say the majority of the people want Dick Cheney and George W. Bush impeached—the impeachment process is glaringly thrown completely off the table: what the 70% majority common population want or expect as individuals doesn’t matter to the 20% united NEW CLASS of Democrat politicians, as the NEW CLASS has chosen only to represent their moderate NEW CLASS as elites, choosing not to represent the 70% majority common population as the class and culture they really are, but only as separate individuals, separated from a class and culture, so that they can be easily ignored, therefore the NEW CLASS politicians ignore all the many polls of the 70% majority common population.
Report thisBy MarthaA, April 20, 2009 at 1:33 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)
PSmith:
The struggle in the United States for democracy for and by ALL the people can NOT happen without real political representation for ALL, not just empty rhetoric, political
representation won’t just happen for the common class and culture of the United States without a separate distinct political party being made for the representation of the common class and culture in the Congress of the United States, and the states of the United States, as the 70% majority common population has been separated into free and equal individuals without any actual representation to have that freedom and equality, only a choice to vote for candidates chosen by the conservative elite capitalist REPUBLICANS or the conservative/moderate elite-lite capitalist DEMOCRATS, and neither political party represents the 70% majority common population, and even the electoral college and conservative judges work together to diminish the power of the common population in the vote.
You stated, “The struggle is and always has been between democracy for and by the people, and fascism for and by a tiny elite of the super rich. The struggle is not between Democrat and Republican”.
It is true, the struggle is not between Democrat and Republican. Including corporatism,the right wing’s conservative REPUBLICAN elite capitalist class constitutes close to 10% of the population and, of course, is a problem for the 70% large majority common population; but is NOT the main problem for the common population. The main problem for the large majority common population is the Left Wing DEMOCRAT’S 20% minority Conservative/Moderate “NEW CLASS” just below the elite capitalist REPUBLICAN class & culture, making 3 distinctly separate classes & cultures in the United States. The NEW CLASS separated from the rest of the common population vying for the elites position in our nation, while the elite have chosen to run the rest of the world. The Democratic Party ACTUALLY only represents 20% of the population, leaving the 70% majority common population without representation in law or in the Congress of the United States and the states. The struggle is not between Democrat and Republican, the struggle is to get actual representation for the 70% majority common population, because the separated out NEW CLASS represents only their own interests,which are NOT necessarily the interests of the 70% majority common population as a class and culture.
Report thisBy Outraged, April 19, 2009 at 10:22 pm Link to this comment
Re: guntotinsquaw
Certainly I can understand your fustration. Regarding the family matters, well… you know, it’s like they say, you can choose your friends but not your family.
Aside from that, you must remember if you grew up in poverty that not all have the same gifts or skills. I’ve certainly experienced this, but to claim “their heart isn’t in the right place” is subjective, at least to a degree. But yeah, I hear ya’.
The issue of “bad choices” is not a class phenomenon, people of all classes make bad choices(Madoff’s victims), do drugs(Limbaugh and his ilk) and have children they are ill-equipped to handle(the Bush twins…etc…). You must understand this also if you “grew up in poverty” as you say.
We are now addressing more serious concerns. We have people who’ve worked ALL THEIR LIVES, scrimped, saved and did without so that at retirement they would survive. Many have seen their savings squandered by companies who threw their money out the window, gambled recklessly with THEIR life savings or simply “didn’t actually save the money” (the piggy bank WAS BUSTED years before), these companies stole this money and every savers’ future security. The victims are now destitute or damn well close to it, some are still working (remember the 90 yr. old guy working at the grocery store) wondering what will become of them. Their “nest egg” is gone, as if into thin air and starting over is a fantasy at this stage of the game. The fact their savings are GONE, a nightmare.
Additionally, we have the banksters who ARE educated and EXPERIENCED, attempting to convince us that they didn’t foresee this disaster. They KNEW, of course they did. They did it anyway and now are asking for your dollar. This is the place to POINT THE FINGER and ask what the hell is wrong with you.
To add insult to injury…... ONE out of every THREE tax dollars goes toward the military industrial complex for things we DO NOT need. Of course we need the capability to protect ourselves, but we are buying CRAP, at ridiculously inflated prices for things WE DO NOT NEED!
It goes on and on and on. Yet here again, the same ol’ scapegoat they’ve always used is being beaten like a dead horse. It’s the poor’s fault, it’s the poor’s fault, it’s the poor’s fault…... pure shit, if you ever could imagine PURE SHIT!
Report thisBy Jason!!, April 19, 2009 at 9:44 am Link to this comment
so, everyone loves obama, his policies and the way he is transforming the role of government. The only ones opposed are right wing politicians and they somehow managed to bring nearly 500k people out to “protest”.
Hmm. Tell me then why so many repubs that tried to coopt the stage were met with such disdane and booed off the stage?
Why were so many people bitching about the republicans policies as much as the dems?
I think people are really tired of politicians running the country who’s main interest is their own pocketbook.
They country is corrupt in epic proportions. That is what people are pissed about.
You can be a cheerleader and root for your fav team but I think you are loosing sight of the real anger out there.
And btw- the Response to the protesters by the media, commenters and “reporters” is what has been fascist.
Report thisBy guntotinsquaw, April 19, 2009 at 7:27 am Link to this comment
PSmith, We are talking about the fate of our great country and your quoting me Blade Runner, how old are you 14…. And yes, OUTRAGED, I’m saying that a lot of “Poor” have made decisions that work against them, poor choice in partners, having kids you can’t support, failure to get educated when it’s offered, DRUGS. The right the pursue happiness is not a guarantee of equal results. It’s not that anyone asks for the apology, they just get down right vicious in the comments, my own brother sniped my 16 yr old because the truck we gave him, 2001 z71, was better than what my brother drives. You would be amazed how many people will hit me up for a hand out <never a loan>, I actually had one that got pissed because I wouldn’t give…GIVE… him some of my land and my favorite is the snide comments about how (you’ve got the money) not the point. Since when does our hard work entitle anyone to a piece of what we earned. So if I sound a little irritated, I am. Now the govt. says I need to be more charitable!!!!I have never lied, stolen or cheated anyone, we give what we want when we want to who we want. Yes I drive a Cadillac-USED- never new. Yep we can afford vacations, my kids will go to college, work and be productive they don’t need this kind of debt. Republicans want to grab the shirt tails of this movement they are NOT leading this movement. My point about voting is put your name where your gripe is, don’t sit and let someone else do it for you. ONE IF BY LAND
Report thisBy guntotinsquaw, April 19, 2009 at 6:32 am Link to this comment
outraged: If you don’t vote, Don’t bitch
Report thisBy Outraged, April 18, 2009 at 10:29 pm Link to this comment
Post 2.
Fascism is more than simply a political stance. It is an ideology, a mantra, or more accurately a driven quest for some supposed perfection. It RATIONALIZES objectivity and disdains human kindness. However in it’s political premise it PROTECTS business interests, ignores corruption and qualifies brutality. This article @ Orcinus illuminates this, excerpts:
“One could use nearly the same terms and ideas to define Marxist-Leninist, or any other kind of totalitarian state. His definition describes totalitarianism (or authoritarianism, if you will) generally, but not fascism specifically.”
It continues:
“At the same time, it’s important that both liberal and conservative Americans have a clear view of what fascism is, not just as an abstract definition, but as a real-life phenomenon. Fascism is not an extinct political force. Most Americans view Nazism as some kind of strange European virus that afflicted only the Germans and Italians, and only for a brief period—this by way of reassuring ourselves that “it couldn’t’t happen here.” But a look at the history of fascism shows this not to be the case; that the Germans and the Italians were ordinary, ostensibly civilized people like the rest of us. And that what went wrong there could someday go wrong here, too. How, then, are we to know if that is what’s happening, as it seems to happen so gradually that the populace scarcely recognizes it?”
And:
“Fascism was explicitly anti-democratic, anti-liberal, and corporatist, and it endorsed violence as a chief means to its ends. It was “revolutionary” in its fervor, yet sought to defend status-quo institutions, particularly business interests. It was also, obviously, authoritarian; the claim that it was oriented toward “socialism” is crudely ahistorical, if not outrageously revisionist. Lest we forget, socialists were among the first people targeted by Mussolini’s black-shirted thugs, and they were among the first people imprisoned and “liquidated” by the Nazi regime.
However, it’s important not to confuse fascism as a movement on the rise with fascism as a power.”
http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2009/04/glenn-becks-liberal-fascism-hour.html
Yes. “A movement on the rise” is DIFFERENT from this same “as a power”. This is why Mr. Blakely your comments are so VERY questionable. Of course, CURRENTLY you do not “appear” the “jack-booted” endorser, on the other hand…. history dictates that thugs certainly do not acclaim themselves as thugs, nor do they PROFESS to be such.
I’ve read that there are over 12,000 books available (no, I haven’t “qualified” this assertion) regarding Hitler and Mussolini’s rise to power, or in more concrete terms, fascism. A wealth of information, even if one considers there is HALF that much.
I have read several. But the overriding preponderance is obvious, such that….it is EASY to recognize FULL BLOWN fascism, regardless of the mantra after the fact. The more pertinent issue, is that we RECOGNIZE, how fascistic elements rise to power and the TACTICS these factions USE to do it. In this light, Mr. Blakely you are NOT standing in opposition, to put it in OUTRAGEOUSLY mild terms.
Report thisBy Outraged, April 18, 2009 at 10:29 pm Link to this comment
Post 1.
It is incredulous that Mr. Blakely attempts to “water-down” the TORTURE premise.
Mr. Blakely, why is it you do not OUT-RIGHTLY aver what you actually think? Proclaim it loudly. Are you not PROUD of your stance? Why sugar-coat it? Your mentality and your comments certainly allude to the platform of your endorsement. Sing out your true self, let us all hear. We are listening.
Also Mr. Blakely, I question your “tentative” position. Is it terror to put a loaded gun to some-one’s head if you don’t shoot them? It appears you would conclude that it isn’t since the victim would not “be harmed at all”. Would it be terrorizing to you if as “a detainee” you were told one of your family members had also been “detained” and, given the circumstances, convinced you that they were torturing and raping them (even though, in fact they hadn’t or weren’t) but YOU believed they were?
Is TERRORIZING someone torturous, or isn’t it…? What if these same threw “an insect” in your box…..? Of course, THEY tell you it is a scorpion and the fact that you can’t see it in the blackness of the box to which you have been entrapped, BELIEVE it to be exactly that…... apparently this isn’t torture according to your summation. Psychological torture, Mr. Blakely is every bit as terrorizing as physical torture. Truthfully and FACTUALLY this is WHY it is used as a TACTIC. Are you denying this? Or simply attempting to downplay it? A very QUESTIONABLE stance, very questionable.
It is also incriminating that you use THE LEAST of these tactics as your “premise”. Have you read the accounts gathered by the Red Cross? Standing FOR DAYS with your arms tied above your head to a “bar” isn’t….. in YOUR perversity torture….? Would you like some sugar in which to dip your “doughnut” !???
http://www.nybooks.com/icrc-report.pdf
This brings me back to my last post of the KCRW, Left, Right and Center forum. If you Mr. Blakely are “right” how could it possibly be construed that Mr. Scheer is “left”? Are we moving the goal posts…..?
Report thisBy Outraged, April 18, 2009 at 7:43 pm Link to this comment
Re: guntotinsquaw
Your comment: “I vote so I have the right to protest.”
Is THAT what gives us “the right”....(to protest, I mean)? Hmmmm…. then how do you ascertain the institution of “free speech” zones?
Also, your comment: “My husband and I both started off in poverty,but we have worked hard and made good choices to get what we have and I don’t owe an apology to anyone for it.”
Wow… you (and your husband, of course), are certainly NOT in the majority. I ponder how you account for all those who start out in poverty and then REMAIN there? Are you CLAIMING that they also “don’t work hard” or are you CLAIMING that they “made bad choices”? Or both…? In this same vein, are you CLAIMING that someone is ASKING for an apology….?
The way I see it, there are those who will lie, cheat and steal and get rich doing it, and we’ve certainly seen our fill of that lately. Truthfully, I haven’t known or witnessed anyone, of late, who has been ABLE to…. well, I guess….do well and still maintain their integrity. I imagine that it CAN and PROBABLY does happen, yet…. it is the exception, rather than the rule. In this regard, I question your premise.
Additionally, I conclude that it has MUCH, MUCH, MORE to do with wage stagnation and wage inflation. Or…. more credibly, the fact that some are making 500 times the amount of the average worker, and others making much more than that. Where do you “file” that anomaly?
Report thisBy guntotinsquaw, April 18, 2009 at 6:17 pm Link to this comment
PSmith just for your info… The TEA Party was started in it’s promotion by “Thomas Paine” youtube posted JULY 2008. not 6 weeks ago. Get your facts straight, Polosi’s mockingbird, your ignorance is shining as bright as her teeth.
Report thisBy guntotinsquaw, April 18, 2009 at 6:11 pm Link to this comment
I resent the hell out of being called Astroturf nor was I bussed in by any group. Acorn can’t say that. I’m not a rightwinger by any means, I vote so I have the right to protest. My husband and I both started off in poverty,but we have worked hard and made good choices to get what we have and I don’t owe an apology to anyone for it. Noone has the right to force me to be “charitable” with the hard earned fruits of my labor. If the “poor” want a better life then they should get off their lazy “I’m owed a handout” butt and work.
Report this