The Internationl Red Cross said playing loud music was torture so lets arrest everyone who plays their car stereo to loud. They say nothing about the real torturing of Christians going on in Iran Saudi Arabia, China, Suddan, and North Korea to name but a few places where it is happening and they are masters at it. You can believe the International Red Cross which throughout W.W. II said that the Jewish prisoners were being humanely treated. They really told the truth there didn’t they? You will believe what you want to believe based on your world view which is eschewd since Eve than Adam bit that forbidden fruit in the Garden of Eden. Man and this world has been on a down hill slide ever since. It is speeding up rapidly. As for the World Court it is a joke the president of Suddan has been charged with crime agianst Humanity but if society makes laws and as society change so do these laws the Suddanese Muslims have alowed the genocide whose law is right? There must be a solid bedrock of Law given by a higher authority our there will be no Law. The Unted State has made Terrorist uncomfortable, and they were humiliated.  They were forced to sit in one position for hours, but they weren’t attacked by attack dogs, they weren’t hung up by their thumbs so that their tip toes were just barely touching the ground, they weren’t beaten with whips. They weren’t starved are fed only enough to keep them alive for one more day. I really dislike you leftist dinagrating the one country that doesn’t resort to that mentality we had limits that were more often kept; but if one interagator did wrong you paint them all in that light so. John McCain knows what real torture is he has seen real evil but you and our President don’t even believe in real evil so we are less safe now then yesterday, and our New Attorney General said that some of the detainees (Terrorist) will be released here in the U.S.A. Go ahead believe what you want that their is no Radical Fascist Islam, and they really do not want to destroy us go ahead believe we are the monster and not these Terorist. Call them what they are Terrorist not enemy combatants, not militants but Terrorist. You political correctness and multiculturalism are bologna. We are fighting an unconventional WAR against an enemy that uses civilians as shields, and as targets. When will see the truth and stop hiding behind lies and half truths spewed by anti Americans like Nancy Pelosi who said that breaking in on Illegals and deporting them is Un-American what hog wash If you want to imagrate to America do it legally then your home want be broken into by ICE. Nancy Pelosi is the one who is Un-American if she thinks it’s alright to carry drugs across the border, and drive wages down by working cheaper especially in times like these 12.5 Million Americans are unemployed approximately the same number as illegals in this Country. So continue to look the other way what will you say when the sword is at your throat and you are told convert to radical Islam, or Die? Will you believe you can fake it. No my friend if you don’t get you feet firmly planted on the ground now you will be blind sided just as the world was when Hitler Marched into Poland and Japan into Manchuria just as Sadam invaded Kuwait, and just as Russia, and her Muslim Allies will one day soon attempt to invade Israel just watch and see. And as for your Bush hating get over it I got over my hatred of fast hands and zipper Bill and his hatred of the United State Military. Wake up and see the Truth not through your rose colored glass’s, or get out of the Rose Garden and to Reality.
        Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
          John R. Bloxson Jr.

Last night on Countdown, Canada was getting ready for Bush’s speech. Protesters had effigies of Bush, shoes were readied and other displays of the peoples displeasure of his appearance. There is a group of lawyers who have tried to stop this event from taking place, as Bush is a felon and suspected war criminal and Canada does not allow felons into their country and if he does come, these lawyers are trying to get law enforcement to arrest Bush on suspicion of war crimes as there is enough evidence of these crimes. That way Canada can either try him for war crimes or they could release him to other countries willing to do so. Maybe, just maybe he will pay for his lies and crimes against humanity.

Today, The Red Cross declared that what they observed in Bush’s prison camps and the treatment done to the people held did fall into the category of torture. Let justice begin.

Leefeller,
I gave no date the Bible is clear that date is not known to us nor to the son the only thing is He will come personally as a thief in the night for the rapture of His Church and than aprox. 7 years later He will return in power and Glory to Earth to Rule and reign for eternity. The Rapture was not thought up by a retarded girl and a preacher in the 1830’s but has been part of the Church since the Shepe=herd of Hermes wrote about it in about 120A.D. and John the Disciple wrote about it in 94A.D. and Paul the most prolific writer in the New Testament wrote about it between 50 A.D. and 61 A.D. I end this with the warning that Jesus gave He will come as in the time of Noah when People are marrying, and being given in Marriage, and it will be like when Noah entered the Ark and The first rain dropes began to fall, and the fountians of the deep broke open ans spewed out the flood.  Than it will be to late to change your mind so I again repeat we do not know the day or the hour but we can tell the signs Israel is an nation so that was a major sign, and when the Israeli’s reoccupied the old city of Jerusalem, and agian stood on the Temple Mound that was another key sign nearly a third of the world is in great up evil such as has never happened before, Nations are in Great Destress, Wars and romors of wars in numbert as never before, Knowledge increasing so rapidly that it is doubling every 16 months, the rate and severity of earthquakes as has never happend before, the mass unbelief and the numbers of sceptics all lead me to one conclussion we are living at the end of the end times, and the rapture of His Church (True Christians) not the fake Christians is soon to happen but I believe Russia and her Muslim and other Allies will come against Israel first and God will show one more time His grace by saving Israel and destroying this Russian Confederation this will begin the cry for peace at any prtice and then the Rapture of the Church will happen the 2112 number is peagan in its origen with Nostradomus and the Aztec, and Inca’s so could it happen in 2112 sure but is that the date only God Knows for sure when the day and hour will come no one else including Nosradomus, nor the Aztec, or Inca’s.
        Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
          John R. Bloxson Jr.
P.S. It is not warpped to believe the Bible holds the answers what is warpped is to believe that there was no Intellegent Designer, and to believe that some cosmic bang started it all from nothing. The Bible say In The beginning GOD Created the Heavens and the Earth! Not there was a big bang and it started the Universes No Explossion has ever created anything it only destroys Man Designs, animals build as the need arise based on instinct, while man works to tame his environment animals move with the environment adapting to it or death takes them.

Well I was surprised to see Madoff trotting off to prison, so maybe the dominos will start to fall, hope may not be just wishful thinking.

Trithoverlies

Your agenda is not mine, nor do I believe most sane peoples. Bush is your hero because he fulfilled your warped agenda.
Yes, I know 2012, did I get the date right?

Cyrena - thanks for posting the link to Obermann’s Still Bushed!

I saw the program last night and my first thought was “hot damn, their going to get the bastards.”  Lets hope the UN follows through and that it will put pressure on congress to start its own criminal investigation along with the Justice Department.

Lets not get stuck on weather the situation in Darfur is a Genocide or not (I don’t believe it is, but others have differing opinions).

This is so much bigger than that. The Save Darfur people have been able to get their message into virtually EVERY (liberal and otherwise) media publication in the country, its like they had a “key”.  I have seen Darfur articles (often, with the SAME stories re-printed) in the New Yorker (several times), Harpers, Vanity Fair, Time, every paper, every online blog/magazine etc. etc. etc.

Many of the large human rights groups have Save Darfur initiatives, and I have mentioned before, the PR campaigns are…overwhelming.

Everyone is aware of the atrocities in Darfur, yet how many of them can name the atrocities in Iraq?? Or in the Congo, which has a 5x greater death toll/rapes etc. than Darfur?

Someone has, 1) massive media influence and 2) bottomless pockets and 3) access to celebrities (George Clooney just left the White House with his pal Nicholas Kristof where they were lobbying for troops into Darfur, i.e. war-mongering. I wonder if Brad is doing the same thing?).

This issue has been trumped to the max, and here we have nothing less than the International Court, playing along.

something is very, very wrong here.

This just in….The United Nations is apparently (as I hoped)preparing to go after the former Criminal Cabal that engaged in massive criminal acts against us and the rest of the world.

They say that the change in US Administrations is not going to prevent them from following through with the investigation and any necessary prosecutorial procedures.

Goody! I swear this is what I’ve been hoping for.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/29624607#29624607

By BruSays, March 11 at 3:06 pm

Yeah, and today I read where some old ‘good ole boy’ in alabama killed 10 people and himself. Most of those were his whole family from what I gathered from the article and he had a list, a list of those who had ‘done him wrong’.  Right below that was an article about some 17 year old german ‘former student’ who killed 15 people plus himself. Now even though that is in germany I think placing w & dick as reasons for these 2 incidents occurring as good reason. w & dick’s policies and actions have very far reaching effects.
I wish w & dick were on that alabama boy’s list and he was able to get to them.

samosamo….good points, re: “At least Bush kept us safe!”

Beyond the deaths caused by his sleeping at the switch on 9/11, his illegal and unnecessary war in Iraq, and the ongoing suicides and trauma of that war, there are the deaths in New Orleans, the deaths in under-funded hospitals and health care systems, the deaths in air pollution and toxic wastes….

Yeah - he’s kept us safe, alright.

Speaking of the G. W. Bush Presidential Library, it has gotten off to a great start, Bush has already donated his tattered Playboy collection and the last book he read “My Pet Goat”.  From what I understand the Library will be about the size of Dr. Who’s phone booth, though they are having trouble collecting enough funds.

Now that Bush is gone back to his Texan, Limbaugh-land-like environment, how about we just cut our losses and LEAVE HIM THERE.

OK… confiscate all his assets allowing him only enough each month to cover basic living expenses, put an ankle bracelet on him so he can’t get off his property and restrict all electronic communication to/from the Ranch. Just let him fester with his like-minded cronies until he turns to dust.

Any time or money spent on GWB from this moment on is completely wasted, IMHO. I live in fear that someone is going to suggest the construction of the G. W. Bush Presidential Library. What in hell would they put in it that anyone in their right mind would want to see or read?

Cyrena,
your information is WRONG. Darfur is NOT a Genocide, it is a Civil War. (this, at least, even this compromised court agreed upon, if you read the article).
~*~*
That’s the same thing they said about Rwanda and a few others Virginia. THAT has been the problem in enforcing the Genocide Convention. Nobody, (ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO ISRAEL) wants to call Genocide what it IS!!
They always start out as supposed ‘civil wars’ and the genocided group is almost ALWAYS the group that rebels against the government, and is thereby brutally oppressed by the same government. I KNOW how the Genocide Convention reads Virginia, just as I am inti8mately familiar with the rest of the body of International Law that covers IHL as well as everything that came from the Geneva Conventions. 
So, the court (while I disagree that it is ‘compromised’ though you can certainly believe whatever the hell you want, because obviously – YOU ALREADY have obsessed yourself with this) did in decide against calling it Genocide (2 to 1) when in fact that’s exactly what it is, based on the language of the law. It’s really handy to claim ‘civil war’ when millions of civilians are being slaughtered by the recognized head of state. It was the case in the Bosnian/Serbian genocide, and it was the case with the Hutu and the Tutsi in Rawanda, and that is the same situation occurring in Darfur.
It is GENOCIDE, because of this… http://www.unhchr.ch/html/menu3/b/p_genoci.htm Article 2
“In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
(a) Killing members of the group;
(b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
(c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
(d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
(e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.”
Article 3
The following acts shall be punishable:
(a) Genocide;
(b) Conspiracy to commit genocide;
(c) Direct and public incitement to commit genocide;
(d ) Attempt to commit genocide;
(e) Complicity in genocide.
Article 4
Persons committing genocide or any of the other acts enumerated in article III shall be punished, whether they are constitutionally responsible rulers, public officials or private individuals.”
The key words here Virginia777,

“….with intent to destroy in WHOLE OR PART, any national, ethical, racial, or religious group….”
The GENOCIDE in Darfur is a textbook classic of what GENOCIDE looks like, and how it always plays out.

It’s Genocide Virginia, and until the International Legal Community starts to prosecute these offenders, and actually utilize the Convention, it will continue to be useless in terms of the intended purpose to prevent and punish the crime of Genocide.
It’s GENOCIDE Virginia, and maybe you should read Will Clinton’s very passionate apology for making the same WRONG call that you are making here (civil war) in terms of the Genocide in Rwanda.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/evil/etc/slaughter.html

2 of 2

And yes Virginia, it is ACCURATE to compare the properties of the Rwanda Genocide to the Darfur Genocide, and the law isn’t about ‘fair’, because it is what it is. WE KNOW that these are Genocides based on the language of the law Virginia, and not based on whether you think it’s fair. The facts are the facts, and they don’t change. Your opinion is what it is, and you are entitled to it, though sadly it is your type mindset that adds to all of the double standards. The only difference between the Rwanda and Darfur genocides is the politics…which is all that oil Sudan is sitting on, that Bashir’s regime wants to keep total control over. There was no oil to fight over in Rwanda.

Speaking of which, that is the other reason why the language and intent of the Convention has never been effective, and that’s the political overtone that has existed since the inception of the Convention…to protect Israel by all means. Because when the International legal community starts formally calling something what it actually is, the biggest boogeyman of political double standards that has ever existed – ISRAEL- pops right into consciousness, since they’ve been engaged in Genocide for over 60 years.

So I’m not even trying to deny the most obvious drawbacks and road blocks to the successful operation of what is basically an infant structure, -International Law, and specifically International Humanitarian Law. And the structure of the system IS relatively new in terms of legal systems in general. The system has largely failed because of the geopolitical inequalities that still uses ‘might’ to determine ‘right’. The politics of the US (Siamese Twin to Israel) are what has most often prevented Universal Law from operating effectively.

So yeah, it’s DEFINITELY POLITICS that continue to rule the day in terms of the International Court. It’s just that your enemies aren’t running anything at the ICC, at least not your hated ‘save darfur’ groups. If they were running anything at the ICC, why would Mia Farrow have to approach Erik Prince to hire blackwater. Under any other circumstances, that would almost be funny.

http://www.icj.org/

Now that Bush is gone, we should be prepared for the worst, of course it has to be the worst, we do not know how to be prepared for the best. We should know that Bush protected us from a huge meteor like the one that crashed in Siberia, we were not hit by any title waves and no locusts either. Even worse how about rednecks getting anal probes by aliens, your saved us even from aliens.  Thank you Bush.

By BruSays, March 10 at 5:20 pm

That is on the imperial part of corporate america’s agendas. Here at home I would think that the increasing number of suicides, murder/suicides, the increasing unhealthy effect of pollution, just plain corporatism, rearragement of the constitution for ‘their’ benefit, the dangers from failing infrastructures(bridges failing)and just a host of other areas where safety is a cost and thus not applied has harmed more people than ever. And no matter what, w & dick’s show was not, never was, a compassionate, rationally logic and caring administration except for those few that he helped steal all our money and keep the dumbing down of america with the complicity of the msm. And that is just off the top of the head which is why more openess more transparency into the 2 illegal terms of w & dick are needed for investigation into their crimes and the prosecution that should stem from such investigations.

Meanwhile, back to the “Will Bush Ever Face World Court?”....

As VillageElder mentioned (and the semi-literate “Trithoverlies” supports, I’m sure) we hear the familiar:

“Well, at least he kept us safe!”

NO. NO. NO. He didn’t!

Under Bush’s watch - 9 months after he took office, four commercial planes with innocent civilians on board were hijacked and flown into buildings or into the ground killing almost 3,000 people.

Under Bush’s watch - and continuing today, 4,257 U.S. soldiers have died, and 31,000 have been wounded - not counting those suffering lifelong psychological trauma. (And this is not including the thousands and thousands of Iraqi civilian deaths.)

That adds up to over 7,000 DEAD AND 31,000 WOUNDED CIVILIANS AND SOLDIERS. That’s not keeping us safe. That’s putting us in harm’s way. This man, George W. Bush, is a murderer.

(more excerpts, this is…incredible.)

This works out well for the big three — the US, Russia and China. They’ll never have to answer for grave crimes before the ICC because they refuse to recognize the court – that is, they refuse to recognize its jurisdiction over their own territory, but when it comes to other countries’ territories, well, that’s an entirely different kettle of fish.

It’s like your dad telling you not to drink, even though he’s plastered every afternoon by 4:00, and has arranged for the local psychiatric hospital to force feed you daily doses of Antabuse to keep you on the straight and narrow while he pops off to the pub for another pint.

At the same time, the terrible trio can fail to order the ICC to investigate war crimes committed by allies, or to veto resolutions that do.

ok, so in case you are lazy (like me) this is a must read for this issue:

excerpt from:
The Criminals are Running the Court
http://gowans.wordpress.com/2009/02/11/the-criminals-are-running-the-court/
By Stephen Gowans

So why is Sudan caught it the ICC’s web, while Israel looks like it will easily brush it aside?

The answer lies in the nature of the ICC’s jurisdiction.

The court has jurisdiction in two areas. The first is over states that voluntarily submit to its authority. Many countries have signed the treaty that established the court, thereby agreeing to allow the ICC to investigate and try grave crimes committed on their territories. But there are notable exceptions: the United States, Russia and China, refuse to ratify the treaty. Israel also rejects the ICC. And so too does Sudan.

Media reports have made much of the fact that Israel does not accept the court’s jurisdiction. Appeals to the ICC for a war crimes investigation are therefore viewed as frivolous and little more than a publicity stunt. How can the ICC investigate Israeli war crimes, if Israel rejects the court?

The groups that have brought the appeals either naïvely believe that the court is neutral and capable of taking on Israel (and therefore the US), or know the score and are hoping that raising the issue with the ICC will reinforce a point that Israel has made, itself, many times over – that its greatest export is war crimes.

Cyrena,

your information is WRONG. Darfur is NOT a Genocide, it is a Civil War. (this, at least, even this compromised court agreed upon, if you read the article).

It is not either accurate (or fair) to compare this situation to Rwanda, although literally years of propaganda (and marketing) in the media has worked to make it so (see NY Times reporter Nicholas Kristof, among others).

The Save Darfur groups (and their massive resources) have EVERYTHING to do with the court’s decision.

This is imperialist propaganda at work, nothing less (sadly!).

According to their website, Citizens for Global Solutions “was a leading supporter of a treaty to create an International Criminal Court, culminating in the creation of the treaty in Rome, August, 1998, where World Federalists played a key leadership role in organizing backing for the ICC by the NGO community.”

Must-read list:

Ten Reasons Why “Save Darfur” is a PR Scam to Justify the Next US Oil and Resource Wars in Africa
by Bruce Dixon
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7594
For critical commentary of the ICC’s imperial intervention in Sudan under Chief Prosecutor Luis Moreno Ocampo, see Stephen Gowans, “The Criminals are Running the Court,” What’s Left, February 11, 2009.
http://gowans.wordpress.com/2009/02/11/the-criminals-are-running-the-court/

For a more recent analysis concerning interventions in Sudan and ICC’s role “as a tool of hegemonic U.S. foreign policy,” see keith harmon snow, “Africom’s Covert War in Sudan,” Dissident Voice, March 6, 2009.
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/2009/03/africoms-covert-war-in-sudan/

Diane Johnstone also provides a useful critique of the ICC, “Do We Really Need an International Criminal Court?: Selective Justice for Failed States Only”, Counterpunch, January 27/28, 2007.
http://www.counterpunch.org/johnstone01272007.html

Zionists for Human Rights in Sudan (but please don’t mention Palestine) by Michael Barker
http://www.swans.com/library/art14/barker04.html

OK samosamo,

Here we go. This is just a base starter for you. You can peruse the entire website, and search specifically for those involving the media monopoly. Just sort of a forewarning though, that if you subscribe to any of these listservs, your email inbox may sue you or revolt or whatever. It does have a tendency to clutter up the box. Then again, if I wasn’t so lazy, I would set up filters and folders for all of this stuff, so that I don’t overlook important mail. Thing is, my ‘important’ mail is usually stuff I’d just as well avoid anyway.

http://blog.pdamerica.org/2008/11/new-tasks-of-the-left-following-obamas-victory/
http://www.pdamerica.org/

Oh, the one I try to keep up with is {PDA Accountability and Justice} and I guess it’s a google group.

By samosamo, March 10 at 12:23 am #
By cyrena, March 9 at 10:30 pm
Crud, I just erased my reply to your reply to me. So in short, after I had posted that last comment about the msm, I thought of a petition which might make obama perk up and listen more than usual. If you know ways to start on let me know. Maybe truthdig would sponsor it. I just don’t feel like doing door to door in my area as I feel that I would be shot. Whatever, thanks for your encouragement.
~*~*
Don’t you HATE when that happens???  It happens to me all too frequently when I’m writing lengthy email messages. And, it’s even got me more paranoid than usual.

The part about Obama perking up and listening more than usual brought a chuckle. I’d say he’s been pretty perked up these past 6 weeks. Lucky for all of us that it’s him and not me who needs to be that perky.

That aside, it would work, and primarily because Obama is a good administrator. He knows how to tap into the energy ‘the people’ in terms of getting things done. Or at least that’s the sense I’ve been getting so far.

Now I’ve never attempted to put together an on-line petition, but I’ve certainly signed enough of them via various and sundry organizations that HAVE managed to be successful. The PDA groups (Progressive Democrats of America) are sponsored by Google Groups and Yahoo Groups, and that provides one good source of contact and information on whatever subject this is that you’re working on, and in conjunction with others who are dedicated to the same.

I am on one PDA list serve (I think through google) that is on accountability, and there are multiple other of these sub-interest groups as well, no doubt many on the issues of the press. In fact, there was a group on campus, working on exactly the same thing. Since I’m on an involuntary sabbatical due to my ‘residentially challenged’ situation, I’ve not stayed ‘in the loop’ for much other than my own work, and even that is pretty much unsupervised by an peer associations.
Still, there are multiple ‘connections’ now, and when I can finish up something else that I don’t know how to do, (Trying to put together a blog, and it ain’t happenin’) I’ll post some links for you.
Glad to hear from you, and glad to know that you’re at it.

By cyrena, March 9 at 10:30 pm

Crud, I just erased my reply to your reply to me. So in short, after I had posted that last comment about the msm, I thought of a petition which might make obama perk up and listen more than usual. If you know ways to start on let me know. Maybe truthdig would sponsor it. I just don’t feel like doing door to door in my area as I feel that I would be shot. Whatever, thanks for your encouragement.

By Virginia777, March 9 at 11:11 pm #
Oh no, they will keep on being beholden to dubious, well-funded influence,
like the Save Darfur/Dream for Darfur/Investors Against Genocide/24 hours for Darfur/Darfur is Dying/etc. etc. etc. organizations.
(oh, and don’t forget to visit one of the many “Shop for Darfur or “Darfur Stores” online)
- what the hell anyway is an organization called “Investors Against Genocide”? can you imagine “Investors Against the War in Iraq”? (this will never happen).
Or heres a better one, how about “Investors against Investors”?
This court will keep pointing the finger away from the U.S.
how convenient.
~*~*
Virginia777,
I understand your distain for these groups, and have the same myself.
That said, I don’t believe for a moment that the new Obama Administration is being guided by these groups in terms of US State and UN representatives in their dealings with the UN.
Period.
The “Save Darfur” front groups have nothing to do with how we should go about prosecuting the former US regime for their multiple crimes at both the domestic and international levels.
The action against al-Bashir is a legitimate action, based on the protocol of the International Legal System. And YES, we KNOW that this has been constantly politicized, probably from the beginnings, since the system itself is still in its infancy, and the US has maintained an undue influence all along, but specifically in the past decade, undermining the UN at every step of the way, primarily in defense of Israel. That too, is a no-brainer.
Be that as it may, there IS a genocide going on in Darfur, and it is ONLY happening at the behest and under the direction of al-Bashir, as head of state. It’s nearly a carbon copy of the Rwanda Genocide. This was the case with Pinochet, who violated all of the same Universal Laws as a head of State, and the list goes on. The on-going GENOCIDE in Darfur does not and certainly SHOULD NOT need the attention of ‘special interest groups’ in order to address and HALT it, because there is an excellent legal system in place to DO that!!  It has until now, been completely undermined by the US political regime of the past decade or more. (Clinton was no better at cooperating with the UN than either Bush has been).
So this is the way the thing goes down, and I even agree with FT on this. YES…it’s racist as all hell, that so far, (with the exception of Milosevic and Pinochet) the International Legal Community would appear to be targeting only heads of nation states of people of color, and have most certainly ignored the equally massive crimes of the US, (although they have tagged us in the past under Ronald Regan) and specifically under the regime that has been running the show for so long here in the US.
Be that as it may, these heads of state in these countries that HAVE been targeted (Charles Taylor and now al-Bashir) did just happen to be engaged in massive crimes against humanity!!! And they continue.

So, we need to use the laws that are in place to deal with this. Ergo, the arrest warrant for al-Bashir now that we have a more cooperative US political Administration. With a bit more patience, we’ll get Cheney et al as well.

Meantime, neither Ban-ki moon or the rest of the UN is under the ‘influence’ of the hollywood and other front groups that you so despise.

It’s a bit more serious than that, (Human Rights) and I think he takes it more seriously than that.

Let’s allow the system to work as intended.

perhaps the judges were persuaded by the Dining for Darfur marketing campaign

or could it have been the Camp Darfur marketing campaign?

or could it have been the Darfur Tents marketing campaign?

or the Designers for Darfur marketing campaign.

or, or, or…

What do all these campaign’s have in common?

they are ALL ad campaigns.

somebody has been making a PILE of money to “save Darfur” with.

why not the people of Iraq?

didn’t they deserve to be saved?

from the war WE were waging on them?

Oh no, they will keep on being beholden to dubious, well-funded influence,

like the Save Darfur/Dream for Darfur/Investors Against Genocide/24 hours for Darfur/Darfur is Dying/etc. etc. etc. organizations.

(oh, and don’t forget to visit one of the many “Shop for Darfur or “Darfur Stores” online)

- what the hell anyway is an organization called “Investors Against Genocide”? can you imagine “Investors Against the War in Iraq”? (this will never happen).

Or heres a better one, how about “Investors against Investors”?

This court will keep pointing the finger away from the U.S.

how convenient.

By samosamo, March 9 at 6:02 pm #

Yes!!samosamo,

It DOES sound awesome, (regaining control of the MSM) and I think doable. I know you’re impatient, (we all are) but I think it will happen, and of course it doesn’t hurt to keep up organized efforts to keep this pressure on, seeing as how there’s a whole bunch of shit flying at once, even for a skilled juggler.

So I think he’ll get to it, because of course we can’t do anything as an uninformed population, and the fact of the matter is that we have been for decades now. Didn’t just happen overnight.

One (of several other) bright spot(s), (at least for my own ‘special interest’ crowd) is his decision to reveal and review all of GW’s signing statements. We hoped long before the election that whoever won, they would do something like that. In fact, we hoped that all of the signing statements and executive orders ever issued would be reviewed by the public, so that we could make the comparisons. When such comparisons are pointed out, (and the public is made aware of what signing statements and EO’s are) we have a far better ‘appreciation/terror’ for what these guys did to us over the last 8 years, and how much must be undone.

Anyway, I don’t think that Obama has decided to go back to the beginning to review any and all of these to former regimes, he is doing it with the Cabal, and that’s definitely another ‘win’, in addition to him restoring the Freedom of Information Act, which Cheney had abolished at the same time that he RE-classified TONS of documents that had long ago been made available to the public through the standards and statues of the law.

So, we’re happy. Maybe now, even MSM will actually get off of their asses and DO some of that investigative work, now that the information is available.

I don’t ‘know’ that, but it’s worth a hope.

Much as I would like to see Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld behind bars (and many others) you have to remember that they have been doing the dirty work for other fascists, many of whom never have to face the electorate and don’t even believe in democracy. I think this quote is a doozy:

‘We are on the verge of a global transformation, all we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order’. David Rockefeller

Well so far, so bad, David. Which major crisis do you want to use to create this New World Order? Take your pick: the global climate catastrophe, the global economic catastrophe, the global military catastrophe, the catastrophic constitutional aftermath of 9/11 known as the Patriot Act,the global corruption of the intelligence services which have now gone fully rogue or the Orwellian catastrophe which is what the global media has become- or perhaps you prefer the crisis in Pakistan where a nuclear armed military and the ISI (Pakistani Intelligence Service) are trying to overthrow the elected government because it’s just not ‘terrorist’ enough for their tastes. More than enough material there to create a New World Order - unless, of course, the citizenry and their elected representatives find a way to stop you. Hearings and prosecutions are necessary, in fact vital.

The rant by “truthoverlies” is the rant of a dominionist.  This is a branch of the ultraright Christian cultus.  For a good read about these folks try Chris Hedges’ AMERICAN FASCISTS, The Christian Right and the War On America.  Naturally this is available at Amazon.

By cyrena, March 9 at 5:42 am

Hey, lady, glad respond to your thoughts again. I just replied to a post on limbaugh here with about the same thing I am going to do here.
You have touched upon a very sore part of the disaster we live in these days. The conservative control of the msm. We DO all need to know what has been done to us by that cabal of w & dick. The information undeniably needs to be sent out to all about what these criminals have done and may be about to get away with without any attempt of accountability. This has been a point I mostly look for everyday to see of obama is directing his attention to the criminal failings of our 4 or 5 conservative/neoconservative owners of the msm. By this I mean, the msm where still the majority of americans get their information, such that it is according to those neoconservative types. I have yet to see any effort much less attention to this problem and that disturbs me much. If obama does not make the move to bust up these illegal monopolies, then the support needed for sending w & dick and their cabal to the dock won’t materialize. So this is a very decisive part of our ‘new’ government that I expect action to be taken and soon. Also remember that of all the things the ‘men behind the curtains’ want, the control of the media and the money(central banking) are the 2 top priorities they have. Just imagine what would happen if the msm was actually broken up enough for the huge segment of REAL investigative journalist that are required to remain down in the internet are able to use the regular venues of public msm for their reporting. Sounds awesome, huh? Then the possibilities of all central banking being shut down and our hopefully less corrupt government handling the money.
I really believe that more and faster help with our current crisis will come if these 2 areas are given back to the public.

War Crimes are like religion they are the invention of man and so is Santa Claus. If Bush is ever prosacuted, I will buy the popcorn for the hanging. My increasingly worthless American Dollar is safe on this bet, though the price of popcorn will be much higher 10, 20 or a hundred years from now.

By GW=MCHammered, March 8 at 11:36 am #
(Unregistered commenter)

At least give us Bush’s proper diagnosis!

People need to understand the craziness they just lived thru that cast this great nation into depression. At least one pervasive personality disorder dominated Bush-Cheney and their administration. Professionals can treat their woes in prison the way Bu$hCo treated most mentally ill behind bars… not at all or with disdain!

~~~~~

Amen to this GW=McHammered.

WE NEED TO KNOW!!!

But, I don’t think it will be easily forthcoming…at least not the diagnosis, though many will try, and some will do better than others.

I don’t think (and I don’t claim to be a card carrying professional at this - but it’s been a life-long hobby for me to follow the ‘criminal mind’) that Cheney and Bush share any of the SAME ‘pathologies’ but then, I don’t really give GW any credit for being the deciding one behind any of the actions undertaken by this rogue regime. In other words, there is no way that the crimes against us and the rest of the world could ever have been undertaken or even initiated by GW himself.

So the diagnosis would be different for each of them, but in terms of the real criminal mind behind ALL of these actions is Cheney and his secret staff..what was the Shadow Government. GW was manipulated brilliantly to be the figurehead of the ostensible government. But the Bush Doctrine, is the Cheney Doctrine. The torture was a Cheney demand. The Unitary Executive Doctrine is and has always been a Cheney Doctrine, backed up by his long term aids like David Addington and Scooter Libby.

So a simple diagnosis isn’t gonna be enough to explain how this happened, even if it were on both of them, as well as the rest of the Cabal. BECAUSE, my amateur sleuth skills suggest that this is one of those set-ups that created the perfect set-up for the damage. Kind of like how two people who wouldn’t have the nerve or the resources to commit robberies, or serial killings alone, manage to team up with just the ‘chemistry’ that allows them to become dangerous as a pair.

That’s not to say that Cheney wouldn’t be equally dangerous regardless. He always has been. But I’d put him in the criminal mind of the serial killer type, and I just don’t think GW goes that far, because he really isn’t that smart.

Anyway, I said all of that to say that we really need a diagnosis on Cheney, in so far as understanding how and why he did it.

Re: Trithoverlies

Your comment: “I tell you what the Bible says and it has proven to be 100% accurate”

I do not believe this to be the case.  Can you link to this “100% accurate” claim that you make so that it can be verified.

Your comment: “I see your desprite attempts to deny the existance of a God of Justice”

If God is….as you claim, a “God of Justice”, then would God not want those who’ve KILLED innocents simply to further THEIR business interests, brought to justice?  Remember, Jesus (according to the Christian bible), upended the moneychangers.

You have also said, “I don’t condone publi or even private stoning for adultry, I don’t require that you change you religeous beliefs at the point of a sword.  but then also claimed, “ and unfortunately in doing so you will chose your final destination The Lake of FIRE for eternity.”

So how do these assertions you make converge?  It seems you are saying on the one hand that some will have the final destination The Lake of FIRE”, yet you ALSO say, “I don’t condone public or even private stoning for adultry”.

What you are saying doesn’t make logical sense.  It appears that YOU feel that some should be KILLED yet on the other hand, you don’t condone killing for what (at least the old testament) says is a sin, that of adultery.  So…. do YOU condone killing or not.

I see all you old Antisemites are now going after President Bush for war crimees come on we were attacked by radical Islamic Terrorest we freed 19,000,000 people from a despot and Bush is the Criminal what utter foolishness You people are the worst group of Hipocrites I have ever seen you tollerance for every body but Christians and the Jew and I am both so you hate me doubly right I back Israel against your lies and halftruths so I am the bad seed you people spread nothing but hate against the two peoples who are told to pray for their enemies the Christian and the Jew. You wrap up all your arguements in a way to sneak their hatred past us to warp peoples minds well I see your desprite attempts to deny the existance of a God of Justice all you want is a god of love one who will make a peace with Israel and their neighbors for seven years than you will cheer Him on as he breaks that peace at the 3 1/2 year mark and desicrate the Temple and declare himself to be god and Blaspheme the true and Living God YWHY. You will proudly take his mark and worship him or his image and unfortunately in doing so you will chose your final destination The Lake of FIRE for eternity.  You will of course continue in your rebellion and call me a fanatic but think of this I am not stapping on a suicide belt to kill innocent people, I don’t condone publi or even private stoning for adultry, I don’t require that you change you religeous beliefs at the point of a sword. I don’t take petty thieves and cut off their right hand or sale people into slavery, Idon’t psh you into my Religeon but I tell you what the Bible says and it has proven to be 100% accurate 332 pridiction of Christ first comming ALL fulfilled in one man Jesus the Christ over 1000 propheies deal with his Second comming and ALL of them will be fulfilled to.
           
    Trithoverlies/Truthoverlies.
        John R. Bloxson Jr.

P.S. Bush did nothing to be tried for so get off it. Start spreading you bigoted hipocracy so Jesus an return.

By randyha, March 8 at 2:15 pm #
•  “Not gonna happen. The U.S. has not signed the ICC treaty, and the opposition to it has included the charge that it could be used against the U.S. for our military actions overseas.”

~*~

Good point randyha, but of course we’re talking about the former US regime that wouldn’t sign the treaty, because they thought it could be used against the U.S. for our miltary actions overseas. And, quite frankly, I’m not so sure that IS a paranoid fantasy. It sounds pretty damn reasonable to me. The same reason Israel won’t sign the NPT.
That said, the Geneva Conventions (to which we certainly ARE committed) can be used to indict and try the former Cheney-Bush regime for their crimes. Iraq or any other nation could originate the charges. So, it’s doable on the International level, but we need to do it here first. We need to expose all of their crimes against the world and the rest of us right here at home. By the time we finish doing that, we’ll hopefully be ‘signed on’ to the ICC, and then the rest of the world can have at ‘em.

Somebody should surely be tried for this:

http://www.andyworthington.co.uk/2009/03/08/seven-years-of-torture-binyam-mohamed-tells-his-story/

In my local paper a letter supporting Bush’s actions and the memoranda asserted that it was necessary and it stopped another 9/11 attack.  No attacks in 7 years.  (This view was not universally supported.)

There is a very vocal element who believe the above.  The repugs will attempt to divert attention away from the reality of Bush & Co.‘s crimes.  It will take political determination and a professional communications program to create the climate necessary for prosecution.  They should be tried here for violations of federal law including the violations under treaties to which we are signatory.  Once they have been tried here let the ICC have a go at it.

It will about as a big a mistake NOT to prosecute w & company as it was to allow the neocons to crank up their think tanks and from those have come this disaster. And w & company aren’t the only ones criminally responsible, there are many many members of congress and the pentagon that are more than deserving of prosecution.
Just as obama seems intent on ‘moving forward’ with NO attention as to w’s 2 pseudo presidential terms and the crimes that were committed, it will do more long term harm and damage to just let these people walk off with NO accountability.

Not gonna happen. The U.S. has not signed the ICC treaty, and the opposition to it has included the charge that it could be used against the U.S. for our military actions overseas. ICC supporters argue that this is a paranoid fantasy. ICC supporters are hoping the Democrat controlled Congress will ratify the treaty. There is no way the ICC is going to throw a wrench into that prospect by indicting Bush. The treaty would be a dead letter for years to come.

Condemning the Sudanese al-Bashir is another example of the Western hypocrisy of split vision and double standards of the so-called International Criminal Court. I never been a fan of Al-Bashir, but since this irrelevant organ issued its criminal decision, I am going to add Al-Bashir as one of my heroes!

As to the rhetorical question of whether Bush will ever face a world court justice, well, it’s just what it is an irrelevant rhetorical question, since the Congress and President Obama has removed this notion from the table!

If criminal Bush and gang will ever be considered for trial as war criminals, it would be due to efforts originating outside the American unjust system. At all levels, America is finished, politically, economically and morally. What is left from its military power will certainly be used to hasten the US demise. It’s a matter of few years!

Justice demands not the ICC, but that about 5 to 6 hundred United Statesians responsible for Afghanistan and Iraq (including Hillary, Powell, Rice, and every congressperson who voted for these criminal wars)to hang at Nuremberg, that we may show the world we meant what we said there.

It finally came out last week from the legal experts the America had been living under a dictatorship the last 8 years. People are finally starting to realize this, although later than we would have wanted. Bush always said he wanted America to be a dictatorship and seems that this is his only success story out of his sorry assed 8 year reign of terror unto the world. What a legacy to be known for.

btb:
As for him going to Canada. Canada does not allow felons into their country. To bad his criminal status isn’t listed as such yet. And when he goes to Canada, if there are charges for him that might include the death penalty, like Sadam, Canada will not send him back here to face punishment. I am not sure if the World Court were to make such a request for G.B. to face up for his part in these crimes if they would release him in that case. Anyone else know?

I did hear that if Dick Cheney enters ,I beleive it is North Dakota,(Yes finally a state with the courage to state up and honor the laws of the land)there is an indictment out on him for war crimes, in the whole state, and he was invited to speak at an event in that state. So if he goes there, he can be arrested. It can’t happen to soon.

BTW, as for the lies G.B. said he had faulty intelligence, that is another lie. They twisted, manipulated and used information that was used during his fathers run as president to justify this illegal war. He needs to face the music and so should the rest of these war criminals. Time to try to bring back some honor to this overly tarnished nation thanks to the republican way of ruining things.

Can’t a bunch of us just do one of them there fancy “citizen’s arrest” type thingies on him?

I got some duck tape we can use!

Of course, for the ICC to indict and prosecute, “the shrub,”  would mean world war III.
He is a former president and in this country, former presidents unless pardoned by the new president have the impunity to do whatever they want.
But if he is to be indicted and prosecuted, then the whole of the administration around him should be also.
We are nothing, if we are not a nation of the rule of law, and this is precisely how the world views America right now.
@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@

Now on with the show! Whomever is picked, to prosecute and retain this war-mongering, fear-mongering liar, should be given the highest protection available and should be helped by the US
Dept. of Justice in the fight to convict Professor John Yoo, for the torture memos, up to and including the memo that authorized the torture of children in front of their parents, torture of indescribable violence and brutality.
Douglas Feith, for his role in the “fixing of intelligence” that caused this country to back a war that was illegal and immoral to start with, never mind the fact that we invaded a sovereign nation that
was not a threat to the US and never would be.
Paul Wolfowitz, for his outstanding doctrine of “preemptive, “shoot first and ask no questions,” war.”  Donald Rumsfeld, for the prosecution of an illegal and immoral act, countless crimes against humanity and the war crimes of Abu-Ghraib, Bagram Air
Force base, Guantanamo Bay Cuba, secret rendition, which if not already known, consists of the CIA and other alphabet soup agencies of the US government, illegally kidnapping any person, man, woman or child,
from another sovereign nation and flying them to a country that the American government knows will torture them, up to and including death.
The list can and does go on and on. But the main point I make in this diatribe, is this, to prosecute
all the men and women for whom this war was nothing more than an aggression, made legal by the Justice Department of the US, would take years and billions of dollars that would be better used to shore up the economies of those countries that America invaded.
We, the people are the ones culpable in this matter, we allowed this man, and his cohorts to continue in office in spite of the evidence that the Bill of Rights was being shredded, the Constitution shattered
and our reputation in the world, mangled beyond repair.  For the current administration is continuing
the very same policies and ramping up areas of conflict that we cannot and will not win in, unless we bomb these civilizations back into the stone age,
with atomic weapons.
As a people, we must demand an accounting of the war crimes, crimes against humanity and other atrocious acts, that were committed all in the name of peace and security.
Never Again! Never Again! Never Again!
Peace out!

As “purplewolf” says:  We can hope. That would prevent from him travelling abroad, but that possibly would not disturb him: Texas is big enough for him. Also, would customs officers at borders have enough nerves or guts to arrest him? I doubt it.

Ya know,

If I’m not mistaken, several (12-15) Israeli leaders HAVE recently been charged with war crimes. Patrick Henry included a link to the piece on another thread. I’m going to see if I can find it now.

WE CAN HOPE.