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Soda, Fat and You

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Posted on Dec 29, 2008
Dr Daines

New York Health Commissioner and aspiring prop comic Richard Daines, M.D., defends his governor’s proposed obesity tax with this hokey yet alarming demonstration.

YouTube / DrDaines:

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By taozen, January 5, 2009 at 2:23 pm Link to this comment

this thread started over the taxing of artifical sweetened soda. NY needs tax money. on the way we started discussing Bob Atkins and b-12. first Atkins was against all soda . he really didn’t endorse artificial sweetners. he was trying to get America off fast food.  He saw the change of diet as an evolving paradigm.  check out his Vita Nutrient Therapy book. his preferred diet was fish and salad.With good fats like avocado and nuts and seeds.2nd, b-12 is made in the gut by intestinal flora. in otherwords probiotics to reinoculate the digestive tract. how did people live before supplimentation? with quality fermented foods. we all agree white flour is white power for the disgusting Kraft like manufacturers.. airplane food Milk as we now get it is not much better than soda.  should candy be taxed?  I think the state should tax corprations who don’t pay thier fair share like off shore oil companies and Cheney’s haliburton

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By taozen carpenter, January 5, 2009 at 1:36 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Just to clarify therei s b-12 in the peruvian coca leaves. but it very hard to assimilate.before b-12was available in supplimental form how did people survive?  the answer is by the intestinal FLORA. a proper climate in the digestive tract is essential   for the body to create b-12. I again suggest drpressman.com for a clear answer. .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) is a place to ask a question. also Dr.  Alan Pressman knew Bob Atkins and he agrees that Atkins was weening the macdonald’s crowd away from the white flour(white powders) and away from all sodas and all artificial sweeteners which is how this thread got started. Organic milk raw which is hard to get is a better food.how about nut and seed milks or even soy if you like?The Govenor of NY was looking to find new tax sources. since he knew soda was bad So he thought it would help the state in a couple of ways. like taxing cigarettes? you dig.

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By NWPDX, January 5, 2009 at 12:50 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

just another name in the crowd:

Just as you say I missed your points, from my end it appears you have missed mine.

On the point of the Eskimo diet.  I realize the article was talking about how their health has changed since being introduced to a Western diet.  Ignoring the argument that could be made around how Western diets generally meat focused.  The point I focused on was that their traditional diet was based mainly on FISH, not “meat” as it’s commonly defined.  This was my intention, since what was being discussed was the validity of the Atkin’s diet and general health.

Lastly, regarding B12.  This study notes that neither meat or fruit/vegetables are known sources of this essential vitamin.  Essentially, the jury is still out on that one, so your statement that meat is the one and only source is incorrect.

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By just another name in the crowd, January 2, 2009 at 11:15 pm Link to this comment
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NWPDX, January 2 at 3:30 pm

You seem to be a fanatic about the idea of fruits and vegetables as the best diet for everybody and that is wrong. Your responses from my earlier comment does not really refute what I said. I would assume that wiki.answers is associated with wikipedia which is a place anyone can introduce their opinion on a subject being basically unreliable plus what it says does not really take away from my earlier comment that B12 is required and that B12 comes from microbe form at least which is a form of protein or fat. If I am not mistaken, no B12 supplement for a pure vegetarian would create dire consequences for that person just as the wiki writer says to watch the dose.
The esquimo part was not on the traditional non-tainted diet but on the modern infiltration of bad eating habits and smoking which hopefully most if not all know is not healthy. What the writer there tried to say also was the unhealthy lifestyle that was creeping into esquimo lives:
‘However, the data in this report suggest that Alaskan Eskimos may have negated the protective effects of omega-3 fatty acids by increased rates of smoking, decreased physical activity, and increased intake of saturated and trans fats,” Roman said’
Then there is this study that was done by 2 artic explorers back in 1929&1930;:

http://www.biblelife.org/stefansson2.htm

While fruit and vegetables do have benefits the major problems in today’s modern diet are from the human processed ‘refined’ substances such as flour, sugar and starches, basically the white powders.

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By NWPDX, January 2, 2009 at 4:30 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

just another name in the crowd, January 2 at 7:34 am:

“But it is a fact that to be total vegetarian one has to supplement their diet with vitamin B12 as no plant food has it, it can only be obtained from food of animal origin and for vegetarians the dose is 2 times what someone taking B12 as a supplement would be: 500mcg for basic health and 1000mcg for vegetarians.”

Oh really?
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_there_Vitamin_B12_in_fruit_or_vegetables

Again, oh really?

http://esciencenews.com/articles/2008/07/11/alaskan.eskimos.high.rates.artery.plaque.could.be.high.smoking

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By just another name in the crowd, January 2, 2009 at 8:34 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

There are a lot of mixed up people commenting here on this site about proper diet. But it is a fact that to be total vegetarian one has to supplement their diet with vitamin B12 as no plant food has it, it can only be obtained from food of animal origin and for vegetarians the dose is 2 times what someone taking B12 as a supplement would be: 500mcg for basic health and 1000mcg for vegetarians.
And milk may be a basic food for babies but what the companies do to milk, pasturize and homogenize, remove essential fats, renders is almost useless as a food source, kind of like thinking that drinking a glass of orange juice will give you all the vitamin C you need for the day but would really take a couple of dozen if not more to get an optimum amount.
Also, for those bashing a protein intake as unhealthy, why do the eskimo eat and live off of meat pretty much the year around and have healthy lives?

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By Spinoza750, January 1, 2009 at 3:34 pm Link to this comment

What was hokey about it? Just good advice.

And what’s wrong with milk, a perfectly good food!

There is something wrong with people. Can’t figure it out. No understanding of science. No understanding of reason, logic and evidence! Why?

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By taozen, December 31, 2008 at 12:16 pm Link to this comment

As people become more responsible for thier own health they turn away from sodas.So the big boys are desperately trying to make the soft beverage market into a “health food thing’ by adding Stevia or bilberry and taurine maybe ginko. Then these drinks will become considered nutrious and food, and then tax free. like milk in that regard. and to the meat-eaters why is colon cancer a huge problem? A lack of fiber will set up a pre cancerous condition,along with white flour and milk. WHITE FLOUR IS WHITE POWER TO THE DIABETIC INDUSTRY. I like all this airplane food that permeates nyc. I am sure my diabetic drug related companies stock will be a good hold

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By NWPDX, December 31, 2008 at 12:04 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Chair of the American Medical Association’s Council on Food and Nutrition:

“A careful scientific appraisal was carried out by several council and staff members, aided by outside consultants. It became apparent that the [Atkins] diet as recommended poses a serious threat to health.”

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By samosamo, December 31, 2008 at 10:01 am Link to this comment

By NWPDX, December 30 at 7:32 pm

Don’t make a dime from Atkins, only good health. Shame that you don’t even pretend to make a point of researching this even with the links I have tried to point out but each to his own.

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By NWPDX, December 30, 2008 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

samosamo

I’m begining to think that you’re a spokesperson for the Adkins program or something.  Sheesh, if I want advertising I’ll turn on the TV.  That’s the hilarity in it all, you will actually sit and call vegetarians unhealthy.  It’s just too much.  Thanks for all the suggestions.

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By samosamo, December 30, 2008 at 7:59 pm Link to this comment

By ecw, December 30 at 6:49 pm

Glad you reminded my of that, I have meant to get that and read it. I have been told it is very informative.

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By samosamo, December 30, 2008 at 7:57 pm Link to this comment

By NWPDX, December 30 at 3:25 pm #

No, I can’t say that you have done your homework/research. Your conception of the digestion of meat is pretty far off base if you did your homework.
Another clue for you. Insulin is screted from the pancreas when carbs are ingested. Controls blood sugar. Insulin is a proven cause of most of the agriculture world ailments, hypertension, high cholesteral, high triglycerides, obesity(insulin is the main culprit in converting everything to fat in the body, such as sugar to fat, fat to fat, excess protein and to refresh the memory banks carbs are converted to sugar in the body).
Now I have definitely given you the gift of more information you should know and it will be all I give. By the way, if you ever take it upon yourself to read the Eades book ‘Protein Power LifePlan, pay close attention to the chapter called ‘The Leaky Gut’. That is a good enough description to how one’s intestine handles or reacts to carbs in the system.
You and a whole lot of other people disappoint me in in believing that agriculture is the best food for everybody. It is the food of choice of the people of power in controling large groups of people, the politics and crimes involved in this are vast and many. Try reading Mike Davis’ book ‘Late Victorian Holocausts’ to get a good look see into how food is tool to use against people for, guess what, MONEY. Once again I doubt you will even look it up to see what it is about. In my very 1st comment to this post I gave a suggestion, you may or may not have followed through on that but would you be willing to forgo all proteins and fats and consume nothing but your beloved carbs. Try it.

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By ecw, December 30, 2008 at 7:49 pm Link to this comment

OK, enough jokes.  If anyone really cares about the research I recommend Gary Taubes’ book: Good Calories, Bad Calories, about the best summary of diet research out there - over sixty pages of references.  He’s science writer for the NY Times and the book is about as definitive as can be.

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By toazen carpenter, December 30, 2008 at 6:12 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Milk is not too good as it is sold today. many people do poorly with it. of course soda is bad and Bloomberg would serve the citizens better if real fruit and vegetable drinks were avaiable say in the schools. I can make a superior milk like beverage out of nuts and seeds,lets tax the oil companies and take that money and educate the children. maybe start CSA’s community sponsored Agriculture. Bloomberg   needs psylium in his diet.

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By taozen carpenter, December 30, 2008 at 5:48 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Soda is not good, replacing soda with milk(organic or otherwise) is not a great idea.Dr. atkins was trying to ween fat americans off of junk carbs. then he went down the fish and salad road. he did good work in a book The VITA-NUTRIENT Therapy. Bob was on the right track in alternative or should I say complementary medicine. see drpressman.com. Tax the over 250thousand crowd alittle more and tax the oil companies. Bloomberg should seek advice from Tufts university in regards to public heallth. His tacet sdupport of the bush MIComplex is bad for my health.when I was young i was called a a fat nothern european baby cow but my chines herbal dr FU Zhang of nyc cured me of a lifetime problem in 18 monthes. mostly vegan diet.

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By The Betwixt, December 30, 2008 at 5:19 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Some people are so ignorant when it comes to “fat people”. They assume that because someone is fat, they must have no self control, because they were raised by parents who fed them nothing but candy bars and soda pop. I know it may come as a surprise, but some people are fat, because they never had sugar as children, or, in some cases, were malnourished in general. Childhood sets the body up for what it will be in adulthood- if you put a child in a starvation situation, that body may be more apt to put itself in a survival mode, where fat is stored, in case of another “famine”. Don’t judge what you don’t understand. Stop the fat hate. You wouldn’t want someone hating you for your survival or your body’s survival methods.

There’s been talk of a milk conspiracy for years. This is nothing new. High fructose corn syrup is in almost everything. Read your labels, it gets scary.

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By OTMPut, December 30, 2008 at 4:47 pm Link to this comment

Milk is as poisonous as the sugared soda.
Incredible, the health commissioner seem to suggest, with his illustrations, that drinking less milk is related to obesity or lack of health. Is it something unintended or a cleverly disguised marketing for the dairy industry?

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By NWPDX, December 30, 2008 at 4:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

samosamo,

I have done my research enough to satisfy myself and apparently you have as well. 

Adkins is/was a hack in my opinion, period.  Carbs are fine as long as they are BURNED.  Eating lots of carbs and being a typical American couch-potato is a different story.  Add meat and animal fats (milk, cheese) to this diet and it only compounds the problem.

Have you ever wondered why that steak makes you feel full longer?  It’s because it takes your body two days to digest it!  Meanwhile, that rotten flesh turns carcinogenic as it winds it’s way through your intestines and over time leads to a variety of cancers, especially colon cancer.  Keep your meat on a stick and I’ll stick with my salad, thanks.

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By samosamo, December 30, 2008 at 1:12 pm Link to this comment

By NWPDX, December 30 at 9:59 am

I’m glad you asked that. You want mythology read the bible(just to give you and others some quibble material). The real truth in diets and this is where the media really gets you with the pounding out the wrong information day after day to the point it is believed. Humans evolved on a diet based on protein and fats. Period. If we had evolved as vegetarians we would most likely have 2 or 3 stomachs, lay around chewing the cud and farting the rest of the day. That is a bit simplistic but just research the hunter gatherer groups. They went for all of these, the 3 main food groups, protein, fats and carbohydrates with more in the protein and fats than the carbs. And it is hard to tell if hominids were ever totally carnivorous, but as most any species, proteins and fats are required or you die. But protein and fats are the most nutritious of the 3 main groups and pound for pound(or ounce for ounce for your benefit). Atkins is right, the Eades ‘Protein Power’ are right, the Eades having researched the whole human diet back a few millions of years to present.
While eating some fruit and vegetables are good for you it becomes harmful by loading up on carbs and when carbs are eaten, an interesting thing happens, even if you stuffed yourself, you will be hungry within a short period of time.
I have drawn this out further than necessary but you need to do your research and not let me tell you what is and what isn’t. Obviously you totally ignored my suggestion to research ‘insulin’ in my previous comment otherwise you would have considered that undeniable facts about what carb consumption triggers in the body when you eat them. I know eating protein and fats(not trans fats)are healthy and the diet to maintain health. I have used to lose weight and to maintain weight and believe it or not a protein diet will come very very close to bringing your blood work back to a normal range if not out right correct it, NOT KIDDING HERE AT ALL. But as I just said YOU do the research. I suggest starting with the Eades books ‘Protein Power’ and Protein Power LifePlan’. That will give you a lay type description about human diet and what works best. Then you can go to the encyclopedia and read the not so insubstantial material written from the research into insulin and what it does.
Good luck. I found it very interesting and revealing reading. Also, lets you know what else the media with holds from us the people.
Do not respond to me again until you have done as I suggest.

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By ecw, December 30, 2008 at 11:53 am Link to this comment

If the problem is sugar, just ban sugar. Another case of the diet-fascists hard at work.  Just remember, eat right, exercise, die anyway.

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By NWPDX, December 30, 2008 at 10:59 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By samosamo, December 30 at 7:08 am #

“As far as nutrition, back to the basic diet based on protein and fats with a few carbohydrates thrown in with exercise will provide the healthiest lifestyle.”

This smells like yet another person who believes in the mythology of the Adkins diet.  What do you mean by getting “back” to a diet based on protein?  I’ve never understood Adkins believers who seem to think that monkeys (aka humans) should eat like alligators and lions.  Simply compare the structural differences in our digestive systems and it’s plainly obvious that we didn’t evolve as primarily meat eaters.  If you want to get “back” to something, fruit and vegetables would be more appropriate.

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By samosamo, December 30, 2008 at 8:08 am Link to this comment

By lichen, December 29 at 8:38 pm #


Clean water is best, water and green smoothies (fresh organic fruit blended up with green leafy vegetables so it is sweet and nutritious.)
***********************************************
Water can be too clean. As a matter of fact, since the time that the water was filtered and chlorinated and fluorinated, life lost a precious source of mineral supplements and that creates more problems with individual or group health than corporations want to be known.
As far as nutrition, back to the basic diet based on protein and fats with a few carbohydrates thrown in with exercise will provide the healthiest lifestyle. I know you won’t believe that and so I will challenge you to stop all protein and fat intake and live on carbohydrates.(hint-the body has the amazing ability to convert most all if not all carbohydrates to sugar, then think and study ‘insulin’)

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By Gesellschaft, December 30, 2008 at 7:15 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I agree it is in our best interest to look out for our own health; I disagree in a nanny state taxing or regulating my choices.  One small oversight: cut out one can of soda a week, not for jogging shoes, but TO PAY THE NEW TAX.

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By lichen, December 29, 2008 at 9:38 pm Link to this comment

Clean water is best, water and green smoothies (fresh organic fruit blended up with green leafy vegetables so it is sweet and nutritious.)

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By Josh Smith, December 29, 2008 at 8:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Milk? Milk has sugar in it as well - it’s called lactose.  Drink water, tap water.

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By samosamo, December 29, 2008 at 5:35 pm Link to this comment

I don’t know. I gave up soda pop decades ago and diet are not really healthy either. But milk, that is baby food and the junk that is sold now is so pasturized, so homogonized and so stripped of the nutrients it should have for a food source that it definitely is not worth a look at the store. Besides, there does come a time when people will most likely become lactose intolerant, I have. The remaining dairy products I consume gives me indigestion and abdominal cramps, so I have given up ice cream and cheese is on the way out also.
Water, tea and coffee are my beverages of choice and of course there is no sugar added because these would not be water, tea or coffee anymore if I did put sugar/sugar substitutes in them. Can’t say that I feel sorry for those fat people other than when they were little ignorant children they were forced fed sugars in all shapes and forms mostly to shut them up by their parents.

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By NWPDX, December 29, 2008 at 4:50 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This message brought to you by the American Dairy Association.

Seriously, why the comparison to milk?  So, stop ingesting high fructose corn syrup and increase your intake of bovine growth hormone?  Nice trade off.

Humans are the only animals on this planet that consume both of these “drinks” after being weaned off of their mothers.  Just give up both already and do both yourself and this planet a favor.

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