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Nader Revives 8-Year-Old Talking Points

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Posted on Sep 23, 2008
Ralph Nader

In his third consecutive presidential campaign, Ralph Nader still believes the similarities between the major-party candidates outweigh the differences, a sentiment captured in this Nader campaign Web ad.

YouTube / votenader08:

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By Rishi Gajria, September 26, 2008 at 11:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

GeoffSpear,

“Then you’re simply delusional.  Ralph Nader doesn’t have a chance to get a single electoral vote.  Our electoral system is probably on paper the worst in the whole world, and in practice the worst of any modern democracy, but it’s the system we’ve got and it’s not going to change in the next month.”

I totally agree. Wonder what Outrage was smoking when he typed that. I would be amazed if Ralph Nader gets more than the 0.4% he got the last election.
I do not even think that Cynthia McKinney can hit 5% to qualify for public funding. But atleast that is a target to aspire towards. To lend the Green Party some legitimacy to be a consistently progressive voice.
Ralph Nader’s presidential run is nothing but ego fulfillment. He cannot do anything for the causes he claims to champion. A two party system isnt the greatest thing in the world, but coming from India with it’s parliamentary multi-party system, I can tell you it is not that bad.

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By geoffspear, September 26, 2008 at 6:08 am Link to this comment

“From my personal perspective, I believe Nader has a very REAL opportunity to win this election”

Then you’re simply delusional.  Ralph Nader doesn’t have a chance to get a single electoral vote.  Our electoral system is probably on paper the worst in the whole world, and in practice the worst of any modern democracy, but it’s the system we’ve got and it’s not going to change in the next month.

Even with a sane electoral system that wasn’t rigged to make a vote for a third party candidate in effect a vote for the major party candidate who the voter disagrees with slightly more than the other one, Nader doesn’t appeal to the vast majority of American voters.

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Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, September 25, 2008 at 9:43 pm Link to this comment

Re: Rishi Gajria

Sorry I was not able to respond to your comment earlier, however I was busy disseminating disinformation.  In response to you comment,

I am not saying that Ralph Nader isn’t great. But I want to know as do many others who supported him in 2000, what does he bring to the plate that others dont?
With Cynthia McKinney, there is at least the immediate target of getting 5% of the vote for public funding besides other things.

From my personal perspective, I believe Nader has a very REAL opportunity to win this election.  I do NOT disregard Cynthia McKinney… nor do I feel ANY animosity or ill-intent in this regard.  I feel McKinney and Nader BOTH to be worthy.

However, the realistic choice between the two, is Nader.  Nader stands to pull more votes.  Both are good, go with the viable option.

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By Rishi Gajria, September 25, 2008 at 12:10 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“he has been nothing but a dour public speaker.”

Let me correct that. For the past twenty years, Ralph Nader has been a public speaker who brings in a dour sensibility to debate.

I am not saying that Ralph Nader isn’t great. But I want to know as do many others who supported him in 2000, what does he bring to the plate that others dont?
With Cynthia McKinney, there is at least the immediate target of getting 5% of the vote for public funding besides other things.

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By Rishi Gajria, September 24, 2008 at 11:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Outrage,

Again, what can Ralph Nader do to eradicate the problems you mentioned with his presidential run. You did not address that. I also mentioned his inability in building up the Green Party after the 2000 election and abandoning them in the wilderness. You did not address that.
A cursory look at the Wikipedia list reveals that Nader’s greatest achievements (actual legislation) came in the 70’s and 80’s. For the last 20 or so years, he has been nothing but a dour public speaker. 
You can vote for whoever you please but at least justify what Ralph Nader’s umpteenth presidential run accomplishes. How does it help the average person?

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By Outraged, September 24, 2008 at 10:42 pm Link to this comment

Re: ITW

Again, “Are you able to promote your candidate with any other premise than the mere idea that your candidate is better than a very sick corrupt politician and a inexperienced delusional fundamentalist co-conspirator?”

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By lichen, September 24, 2008 at 8:14 pm Link to this comment

If there isn’t a dime, there can still be a few pennies of difference…about as much as Obama had pledged to spend on green energy and social programs, before he decided to forgo that pledge in order to spend it all on the casino capitalists and bombing weddings in Afghanistan. 

If only his strident supporters could accompany him to the Hague in a few years…

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By Just me., September 24, 2008 at 8:06 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I do support Nader/Gonzalez. Their campaign brings some positive informed thinking to this election cycle.

Brief Aside.

Make sure your voter registration is current.  Make sure your family and friends can vote too. Discuss the issues whenever you can with whomever you can.

Be courteous, stay informed, have an open mind.
Keep Involved.

Peace

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By nobamacain, September 24, 2008 at 6:34 pm Link to this comment

http://www.truthdig.com/podcast/item/20071009_robert_scheer_debates_ralph_nader/


Listen and learn.

Dear moderator,

Why is it that the unregistered commenter Rishi’s posts are displayed, but my post from over 2 hours ago is not up yet? Now that I’m registered, can you put your bias aside and do what’s right? Thx

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By Inherit The Wind, September 24, 2008 at 6:04 pm Link to this comment

Outraged, September 24 at 4:47 pm #

Re: ITW

Your comment: “especially if it’s based on the fallacious premise that there’s no difference between the parties and the candidates.”

Your assertion isn’t accurate.  That isn’t what Nader said, but you KNOW that too, don’t you.  Like I said your maliciousness is obvious.  So other than LIES or NAME-CALLING, is there anything you could debate regarding the issues or integrity of the candidates?

Are you able to promote your candidate with any other premise than the mere idea that your candidate is better than a very sick corrupt politician and a inexperienced delusional fundamentalist co-conspirator?

******************************************

Are you REALLY going to try to tell us that Nader did NOT say “There isn’t a dime’s worth of difference between the two parties”?  GO PROVE IT!  There are citations all over the Internet proving he said it.

So…what’s the lie?  That I’m telling the TRUTH about your Ralphie?

Where’s the lie, Out?  Where’s the lie?

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By Outraged, September 24, 2008 at 5:52 pm Link to this comment

Re: Rishi Gajria

Your comment: “Pretty much summarizes Nader’s 08 run.”

I disagree, I think it pretty much summarizes your mentality.

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By Outraged, September 24, 2008 at 5:47 pm Link to this comment

Re: ITW

Your comment: “especially if it’s based on the fallacious premise that there’s no difference between the parties and the candidates.”

Your assertion isn’t accurate.  That isn’t what Nader said, but you KNOW that too, don’t you.  Like I said your maliciousness is obvious.  So other than LIES or NAME-CALLING, is there anything you could debate regarding the issues or integrity of the candidates?

Are you able to promote your candidate with any other premise than the mere idea that your candidate is better than a very sick corrupt politician and a inexperienced delusional fundamentalist co-conspirator?

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By Outraged, September 24, 2008 at 5:18 pm Link to this comment

Re: Rishi Gajria

Your comment: “And exactly what can Ralph Nader do about this? Nothing, all he does is talk.

Nader has done many, many things to protect civil rights and thwart the injustices perpetrated on the American public by big business interests. From Wikipedia:

“In 1980, Nader resigned as director of Public Citizen to work on other projects, forcefully campaigning against what he believed to be the dangers of large multinational corporations. He went on to start a variety of non-profit organizations:

Citizen Advocacy Center
Citizens Utility Boards
Congress Accountability Project
Consumer Task Force For Automotive Issues
Corporate Accountability Research Project
Disability Rights Center
Equal Justice Foundation
Foundation for Taxpayers and Consumer Rights
Georgia Legal Watch
National Citizens’ Coalition for Nursing Home Reform
National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
Pension Rights Center
PROD (truck safety)
Retired Professionals Action Group
The Shafeek Nader Trust for the Community Interest
1969: Center for the Study of Responsive Law
1970s: Public Interest Research Groups
1970: Center for Auto Safety
1970: Connecticut Citizen Action Group
1971: Aviation Consumer Action Project
1972: Clean Water Action Project
1972: Center for Women’s Policy Studies
1973: Capitol Hill News Service
1980: Multinational Monitor (magazine covering multinational corporations)
1982: Trial Lawyers for Public Justice
1982: Essential Information (encourage citizen activism and do investigative journalism)
1983: Telecommunications Research and Action Center
1983: National Coalition for Universities in the Public Interest
1989: Princeton Project 55 (alumni public service)
1993: Appleseed Foundation (local change)
1994: Resource Consumption Alliance (conserve trees)
1995: Center for Insurance Research
1995: Consumer Project on Technology
1997?: Government Purchasing Project (encourage purchase of safe products)
1998: Center for Justice and Democracy
1998: Organization for Competitive Markets
1998: American Antitrust Institute (ensure fair competition)
1999?: Arizona Center for Law in the Public Interest
1999?: Commercial Alert (protect family, community, and democracy from corporations)
2000: Congressional Accountability Project (fight corruption in Congress)
2001: Citizen Works (promote NGO cooperation, build grassroots support, and start new groups)
2001: Democracy Rising (hold rallies to educate and empower citizens)”

“In 1971, Nader founded the non-governmental organization (NGO) Public Citizen as an umbrella organization for these projects. Today, Public Citizen has over 140,000 members and investigates Congressional, health, environmental, economic and other issues. Nader wrote, “The consumer must be protected at times from his own indiscretion and vanity.”

In the 1970s and 1980s Nader was a key leader in the anti-nuclear power movement. “By 1976, consumer advocate Ralph Nader, who later became allied with the environmental movement ‘stood as the titular head of opposition to nuclear energy’”  He advocates the complete elimination of nuclear energy in favor of solar, tidal, wind and geothermal, citing environmental, worker safety, migrant labor, national security, disaster preparedness, foreign policy, government accountability and democratic governance issues to bolster his position.”

Nader has been instrumental in organizing and fighting for the concerns of all Americans.  Something he continues to do.  To say he’s accomplished nothing, that he “is all talk”, to even to imply it, is ludicris.

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By Inherit The Wind, September 24, 2008 at 5:10 pm Link to this comment

Hey, Out!

I SAID it’s still a free country. You’re free to throw away your vote on Nader if you so desire. 

And I’m free to say it’s a stupid thing to do, especially if it’s based on the fallacious premise that there’s no difference between the parties and the candidates.  What makes it doubly stupid (in my humble opinion) is to continue that premise after 7 years and 8 months of Bush, which constitutes hard evidence that you are wrong.

But that’s what makes America great: Your right to do a stupid thing and MY right to call it stupid.

You have the right to think my support of Obama stupid, and to call it stupid, too.

I doubt Ralph will STFU.  But I also doubt anybody but a handful of Truthdiggers will care.

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By Rishi Gajria, September 24, 2008 at 3:25 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

http://in.youtube.com/watch?v=JIFEceopAUI

Pretty much summarizes Nader’s 08 run.

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By truthreader3, September 24, 2008 at 3:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Kath Cantarella wrote:
“Obama spoke against going to war in Iraq at a time when most USAmericans were likely to want to spit in his face for expressing that view.”
That statement is not true.
When the invasion of Iraq started in March 2003, Obama was not a US Senator yet. Since his election to the senate he spoke with a forked tongue about the war. He did not critisize the legallity or the morality of the war . He just critisized how Bush is handling the war and he voted for every request for funds to finance the war.??!!
Obama got more money from Wall St. than what McCain got. I bet he will give them the $700 Billions without any question asked. Probably he was groomed to serve Wall St. He will be a very good cover!!
Nader is a good guy but he does not has an organization. So I will vote for the Greens.
They have the start of a viable third party.
Yes, they will lose, but it is the start of a long and difficult journey that has to be travelled for real CHANGE to be achieved.

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By lichen, September 24, 2008 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment

Al Gore lost the election to both his own right-wing political platform, and the republican voter fraud/disenfranchisement; same with Kerry.  Nader has nothing to do with it, because the democrats do not own the votes of the left, but are responsible for challenging cooked elections, which they chose not to fucking do.  Most of us who vote Green/Nader would not be voting for Obama if they were not in the race; I would rather fucking die than vote for a war criminal aspirant who is going to cut social programs and murder poor people abroad; it will never happen, so it is time for you to shut the fuck up and stop trying to defeat Nader when he could win if you voted for him too.

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By Outraged, September 24, 2008 at 3:17 pm Link to this comment

Dump the corporate Obama/McCain ticket.  Vote Nader/Gonzales2008

It certainly shows the EXTREMES some will go to when filled with hate.  Just as the right wingers or the fundamentalists NEED their scapegoats, so too does any EXTREMIST.  That includes some of the past posts made by these supposed democrats.

What is your point…?  Are you attempting to expose yourself to everyone for the extremists you are?  The ol’ “if you’re not with us, you’re against us” mentality.  This is the same “philosophy” as our current unpresident.  Do you honestly think your screaming and bashing make your side look better…?

We ALL have a right to vote for who we think is best for the job.  Simply because you disagree, doesn’t mean you have a right to DEMAND and DISPARGE by implication and lies that everyone DO IT YOUR WAY.

Your idea of democracy is not something I share.  My idea allows for the freedom of EVERYONE to cast their vote as they see fit.  That was the whole idea of democracy after all.

BTW ITW, Nader usually pulls in Republican and Democrat votes.  This election I would imagine he’ll pull more Republican votes than he usually does, I mean look at their other options… a sick man and a fundamentalist, or Obama and Biden.

People have a right to support their candidate and to vote their choice.  You do not have the right to create lies and distortions.

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By Inherit The Wind, September 24, 2008 at 2:26 pm Link to this comment

Moderator—please put a after TILT or the whole thread is bolded.  Sorry for the typo…...

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By Inherit The Wind, September 24, 2008 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment

Which is why the Dems are so enraged at Nader. He makes them look bad.
****************************

!!TILT!!!![/]

Sorry, the Dems don’t need little egotistical Ralphie to make them look bad.  They are perfectly capable of doing it themselves—look at the last two years when they should have shut down the government rather than give in the Crook-In-Chief.  They could have shut down the Senate rather than let Cheney bluff them out of the Senate Rules on appointments.

All Ralphie does is mess things up.  When has HE ever shown as much experience to be Chief Executive as even Sarah Palin, who is as unqualified as George Bush was (and still is)?

But, for the moment it’s still a free country, sort of.  And, if we are very, very lucky it will stay that way.  So as long as it is, Ralph Nader gets to share in the blessing of Liberty and run his mouth off just like every right-wing fascist shock jock.  But when the freedom is stolen from us, and it may well be over the next few months by Bush, Ralph may sleep well knowing he has done his little part to bring the end of Freedom upon us.

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By Allan Krueger, September 24, 2008 at 1:09 pm Link to this comment

Ah, yes, Ralph Nader! We have him to thank for these past 8 years of the worst pResident ever! Hey Ralph, play your cards right, so we can wind up with McPAIN as the next pResidential disaster! Forget UNSAFE AT ANY SPEED - this will be your legacy! THANKS, RALPH!

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By Gmonst, September 24, 2008 at 12:39 pm Link to this comment

Here’s a question for you, why didn’t Nader support McKinney instead of running against her?  She is the green party candidate.  Couldn’t be ego could it? All his accomplishments are a long time ago.  I have not one iota of proof that he could even implement his talking points once in office.  Those who say he couldn’t run for congress or the senate because he would be shut down by the dems and repubs once in office, what do you think would happen as president?  Talk is cheap.  Unless he shows some action that indicates he could actually accomplish something in a public office, he doesn’t deserve anyone’s vote.  We can wish the public at large was smarter and demanded better candidates, but they don’t.  Get with the actual decision this country is facing, and make your stand.  If you want to throw away your vote to Nader who is guaranteed not to win or even be close, go ahead.  Just know you are in reality letting everyone else decide the direction this country will take.

There are lots of other and better things Nader could be doing with his time if he really wanted to make this country better.  Running for president every 4 years and then disappearing for the rest of the time does nothing.

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By Rishi Gajria, September 24, 2008 at 12:38 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Outrage

“18,000 Americans that die because they don’t have health insurance.  (that’s six, 9-11’s)
* 58,000 Americans that die from work related diseases in the mines and foundries.
* 65,000 Americans that die from asphyxiation or cancer from air pollution.
* 100,000 Americans that die from medical negligence and malpractice from hospitals “

And exactly what can Ralph Nader do about this? Nothing, all he does is talk.

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By Alan, September 24, 2008 at 12:23 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ralph is right. Nevertheless to Stop Rove/Cheney! vote for Obama!

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By David, September 24, 2008 at 11:34 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Because I care, and I know Ralph does, too.

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By Folktruther, September 24, 2008 at 9:54 am Link to this comment

Outraged and Troublesum- it is much worse than the two parties have become more similar—in the past eight years they have both gone sharply to the right. If you continue to support Dems while the Dem leaders display contempt for progressives, you will continuously go to the right as well.  And tis is what has happened. Which is why the Dems are so enraged at Nader. He makes them look bad.

But the whole electoral system is so skewed to the right that it is mostly fraudulent.  It wouln’t much matter in the unlikely event that Nader were elected.  One isolated person surronded by toxic money and media can easily be neutralized.

Troublesum, you are quite right; your comments are short.  I was thinking of others.  I apologize for the insinuation.

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By Kwaayesnama, September 24, 2008 at 9:17 am Link to this comment

Poor Ralph Nader!
It’s unfortunate that he crawls from under a rock every four years. Where is he for the other 47 months? Years ago I was young and foolish and worked on one of his campaigns. I became disillusioned with the most massive ego that I have ever witnessed. If he truly cared about this country he would run for a lower political office such as congress or the senate and work for change in the system. But then that would require working with mare mortals – not in his playbook! Just think what would happen in this country if a miracle would happen and he was the last one standing. What a terrifying thought!

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By Inherit The Wind, September 24, 2008 at 8:50 am Link to this comment

Gore did NOT vote for Thomas—and Thomas only was confirmed with 52 votes—Chuck Robb was one, Frank Lautenberg was another.  The DINO from Louisiana was a third. There were only 1 (or 2) more Democrat who crossed for Thomas. It was that close.

Scalia was approved well over 20 years ago, before his politics were known, before anybody realized JUST how close the court is to being dominated by radicals.  At that time Rehnquist and Scalia were the ONLY hard-right-wingers.

So that argument is a pie-crust argument—easily made, easily broken.

Lots of factors contributed to Chimpy getting the WH. But like the guy who drops the ball for the final out in the 9th inning, or misses the winning field-goal as the clock runs out, so Ralph Nader did his little part to ensure the biggest threat to our Democracy and Freedom since the Civil War holds power.

And as our Democracy and Freedom face YET another threat that YOU KNOW it would never have faced from a Gore presidency, you are happy to help ol’ Ralph argue about the arrangement of the deck chairs on the Titanic.

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By Red star, September 24, 2008 at 8:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The basic fact of the matter is that Usans vote always AGAINST their interests. Never, ever once they have elected based on substantive issues or being fully aware of what is going on in their own country, let alone the world. That is too much work that interfere in TV watching and getting off the couch. They love to vote on carisma, personality, love dim-witted guys, simple people , much like themselves.Forget about being responsible and participating in their civic duties, before or after the elections.
In other words, they get the type of governments they DESERVE.

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By rock, September 24, 2008 at 8:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

pure and simple. stop whining, he deserves his place to run. it should be a democracy after all. oh yeah, and the 2000 election was stolen, so stop crying foul against Nader, it was an electoral/judicial coup after all.

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By Manila Ryce, September 24, 2008 at 6:54 am Link to this comment

“He doesn’t realize that there is absolutely one thing we KNOW neither Gore nor Lieberman would ever have done: Appoint Samuel Alito and John Roberts to the Supreme Court.”

Really? Gore voted to put Scalia on the court, and the Dems caved for Justice Thomas. The Democrats have done nothing to block right-wing Bush appointees over the past 8 years.

Sorry, but you can’t blame Nader for the right-wing take over of Washington. Place that blame where it belongs with the capitulation of the Dems. Gore’s defeat was an example of that failed strategy to adopt conservative values rather than fight them. The Dems have laid down for 8 years.

Aside from the Neocons themselves, the real people to blame for the past 8 years are the majority of Democrats who didn’t hold their own party officials accountable when they lined up to give Bush a foot massage. Nader actually spoke out during the last 8 years. Your party did not. Now you guys are turning a blind eye again rather than pressuring Obama to stay to the Left. How’s that working for ya?

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By Sam, September 24, 2008 at 5:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Americans are still brainwashed to believe that you must choose one or the other. And they believe that to do otherwise is some sort of treason or heresy, both words you heard a lot in the dark ages. If they weren’t so brainwashed we COULD have a viable third party, but the billions spent on TV advertising keeps the lemmings coming back to the perennial “coke or pepsi” choice. I voted for Nader last election and might do so again this time if I vote at all, as I think that out of the entire lot of them, only Biden has any presidential credibility.
And folks, please keep the shrill personal rants to a minimum. Nobody cares and you are ruining this forum.

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By Inherit The Wind, September 24, 2008 at 4:19 am Link to this comment

Rus,
See if you can keep this straight:

Cyrena is a one person. Sometimes I agree with her, sometimes I don’t. Cyrena understands that when your house is burning, you have to concentrate on putting it out, not on firing the corrupt building inspector.

Outraged is another person who doesn’t understand that basic logic. Mostly we disagree.  He seems to think that anyone who doesn’t support Nader is a Republican. I think anyone who supports Nader is a dupe for the Republicans, and that the GOP are secretly supporting him to undermine the Democrats.

He doesn’t realize that there is absolutely one thing we KNOW neither Gore nor Lieberman would ever have done: Appoint Samuel Alito and John Roberts to the Supreme Court.  Of all the damage George W. Bush has done to America, and we all agree it has been extensive, those two appointments are the worst, the longest lasting, and the only two that cannot be undone.  They will be on the Court for 20 to 30 years, unstoppable.

So tell us more about how SkyPilot Ralph is Our Savior.  I need a laugh.  I just wish Bob Barr could sap Republican votes the way Nader saps Democratic votes.

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By Rishi Gajria, September 24, 2008 at 12:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ralph Nader couldn’t even build up the Green Party after the 2000 election. What can he do besides be a spoiler? Could Outrage explain what Ralph Nader has done in the last twenty years to improve the lot of the common man besides giving speeches.

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By Ron Ranft, September 24, 2008 at 12:19 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I see, they have started showing up. The true believers in all their finest rhetoric! Instead of any logical or signs of critical thinking they come up with STFU and trot out the same old lies, attempting to fool people into thinking the world is going to end if they don’t vote for tweedle-dumb or tweedle dumber. Someone post elsewhere that they had weathered Reagan, Nixon, and 2 Bush’s so he cvould weather McCain. So can I.

As for Obama he is clearly better than McCain in most respects but he has his corporate ties too. The one glaring difference is that while both of them agree that there is this GWOT that must be fought, one thinks it must be fought in Iraq and the other in Afghanistan. Neither are winnable because each one will require we bankrupt ourselves to achieve what cannot be achieved in either country.It is time to give up war as a policy making instrument and bring all our troops home from everywhere. It is time to repair ourselves. Fix the economy, spend our money on education, health, roads, schools, bridges, and creaqte a sustainable economy that doesn’t include allowing the rich to get richer. No more trickle down! Time for a diluge. Why should one person get 7 houses and a hundred not have any? It isn’t like people didn’t work for them.

So, as I said, keep your same old same olds, I’ll vote for the guy who has the street creds, not some lies!

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By mud, September 23, 2008 at 11:32 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The only thing Ralph spoiled was the infantile fantasy that big Al G. would have saved the day. The reality is that even if Al grew balls and became god, we still would have been one bullet or heart attack away from having Joe Lieberman take over.

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By Outraged, September 23, 2008 at 11:05 pm Link to this comment

This one’s for you ITW and mill.

They don’t turn the country upside-down for the:

* 18,000 Americans that die because they don’t have health insurance.  (that’s six, 9-11’s)
* 58,000 Americans that die from work related diseases in the mines and foundries.
* 65,000 Americans that die from asphyxiation or cancer from air pollution.
* 100,000 Americans that die from medical negligence and malpractice from hospitals

”....They don’t turn the country upside-down for any form of violence, however preventable it is, if it’s source is corporate crime, corporate negligence, corporate greed, and corporate power.”

We are the richest country in the WORLD.  Dump the corporate Obama/McCain ticket.  Vote Nader/Gonzales2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LwvtNovmtw

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By Outraged, September 23, 2008 at 10:19 pm Link to this comment

Re: ITW and mill

Are you republicans?  With all that whining…it’s difficult to tell.

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By Repub in Calif, September 23, 2008 at 10:17 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Sheesh ... Nader gave us Alioto and Roberts in 2000 ... who’s he gonna give us this time?

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By Tim, September 23, 2008 at 10:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Put Ralph in charge of the 700 billion.  He is the only person in the entire universe of blabbermouths you could trust to do the right thing for the people.  And one of the few who is smart enough to see thru the bull.

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By kath cantarella, September 23, 2008 at 10:09 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

One essential difference between Obama and McCain:

McCain talked up an invasion of Iraq even before 911.

Obama spoke against going to war in Iraq at a time when most USAmericans were likely to want to spit in his face for expressing that view.

McCain is going to win in November. If they can find the cash, they’ll be dropping bombs on the women and children of Iran soon after.

Sorry to be such a pragmatist. I really like Mr Nader.

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By mill, September 23, 2008 at 9:13 pm Link to this comment

Another close election, another opportunity to throw the presidency to a conservative alot like the current president.  thanks Ralph.  again.  twit.

Inherit the Wind has it right from my view.

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By Inherit The Wind, September 23, 2008 at 8:57 pm Link to this comment

Ralph,
It’s a free country so you can say what you want, but please, Please, PLEASE STFU!

Remember: if people think you’re a damn fool, don’t open your mouth and remove any remaining doubts!

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By quixotic, September 23, 2008 at 8:22 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

he revives the fkn truth. robert sheer just about had it with obama, just about per his recent columms. Sheer just wont admit the truth, the two parties are the equivalent of to fast food joints, both will still kill you!!! DOWN WITH MCBAMA 2008!

votenader.org

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By Outraged, September 23, 2008 at 7:53 pm Link to this comment

Campaign to “Open the Debates” to third party candidates.

“Prepare to join other Nader/Gonzalez supporters across the country on Thursday, September 25th for our National Day of Action to Open the Debates!”

Write letters to the editor, to the corporations and organizations sponsoring the CPD debates, to the debate moderators and broadcast organizations, and to your friends and family members.

Call the Commission on Presidential Debates (CPD), Obama and McCain Campaigns, Talk Shows, and National and Local Media Outlets.
Commission and moderators’ contact information:

Commission on Presidential Debates
1200 New Hampshire Ave NW #445
Washington, DC 20036
202-872-1020
http://www.debates.org/index.html

Schedule & Moderators 2008

Friday, September 26th, First Presidential Debate
The University of Mississippi, Oxford
Jim Lehrer
Executive Editor and Anchor, The NewsHour on PBS
MacNeil/Lehrer Productions
2700 South Quincy Street
Arlington, VA 22206
703-998-2138
.(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address)

Thursday, October 2nd, Vice-Presidential Debate
Washington University, St Louis, Missouri
Gwen Ifill
Senior Correspondent, The NewsHour, Moderator & Managing Editor, Washington Week
PBS

Tuesday, October 7th, Second Presidential Debate
Belmont University, Nashville, Tennessee
Tom Brokaw
Special Correspondent
NBC News

Wednesday, October 15th, Third Presidential Debate
Hofstra University, Hempstead, New York
Bob Schieffer
Chief Washington Correspondent and Host, Face the Nation
CBS News

Obama/Biden ‘08
333 North Michigan Avenue
P.O. Box 8102
Chicago, IL 60680
866-675-2008
E-mail contact form at http://my.barackobama.com/page/s/contact2

McCain/Palin ‘08
P.O. Box 16118
Arlington, VA 22215
703-418-2008
E-mail contact form at http://www.johnmccain.com/Contact/

Support the Open Debates campaign to reform the Presidential Debates process by signing their online petition.

Petitions: http://opendebates.org/yourrole/petition/
http://www.thepetitionsite.com/1/bob-barr-and-ralph-nader-in-the  -2008-debates

Downloadable fliers and posters available here.
http://www.votenader.org/debates/

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By Outraged, September 23, 2008 at 7:05 pm Link to this comment

The title, “Nader Revives 8-Year-Old Talking Points” is accurate.  What else is there to say, nothing has changed in this regard.  In fact, its worse, the differences betweeen the parties have narrowed.  Sure you have the difference of personality and projection, but where the “meat and potatoes” difference?  It simply isn’t there.

As far as the candidates, McCain has always claimed to be “basically” another GW.  Bomb, bomb, bomb…bomb, bomb Iran.  He’s really never hid that, or if he’s tried, he has definitely NOT succeeded.

Obama alluded to things and made implications.  Yet after receiving the nomination he certainly began to “shatter some illusions”, shall we say..?  On the other hand, on many issues, it’s true TECHNICALLY, he NEVER said that.  You gotta give ‘em that… LOL.  What’d he call it, “we got hoodwinked”..?

So, just keep voting for people who don’t share your values or vision.  Just keep buying the line, “It’s the ONLY sensible thing to do”.  The situation is serious…. hurry!...vote for “least worst”....it’s the best thing to do…obviously….what are you thinking….Obama…McCain….we have no choice…Nader’s not a politican…why didn’t he be a senator first…boo hoo, he took our votes away….and on and on.

The PBS, “Independent Lens” page had this to say about Ralph Nader.

Over the next 30 years, Nader built a legislative record that rivals that of any contemporary president—without ever holding public office. Following the General Motors incident, he took on the Federal Trade Commission, which he felt was shirking its duty to protect consumers against fraud and other harmful business practices. To carry out his extensive campaigns, Nader tapped into the power of young people and recruited students from across the United States. In the 1960s, many young recruits flocked to Washington, attracted by the prospect of changing the system. Known as Nader’s Raiders, this army of activists published a series of book-length reports on issues ranging from workplace safety to air quality.”  (emphasis mine)

If you haven’t yet seen “An Unreasonable Man” rent it, it was a free borrow at my library.  But at least check out the trailer for it at this site. (upper righthand corner of page)

http://www.pbs.org/independentlens/unreasonableman/film.html

BTW, to anyone still trying to scapegoat Nader for ANY election, this link has free documentaries.  I’d suggest, “American Blackout”, “Hacking Democracy”, and “Votergate”.  Again, that is…if you haven’t already seen them.

http://www.freedocumentaries.org/index.php?ct=6

Even if you don’t like Nader, using “least worst” logic, he should STILL be your guy…

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By Ron Ranft, September 23, 2008 at 6:34 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I was impressed with the comments. Every where else I go and Nader is mentioned I see the old “cost Al Gore the Presidency” accussation and the old fossil without a message resonses. These people, along with most of the US haven’t got a clue about what Nader has spent a lifetime doing for the working class people. They’ve never heard him speak any more than most Americans have heard Noam Chomsky or Howard Zinn speak and yet these people seem to know everything they need to know about what his political views are. It has taken a few generations but the political machines using the corporate media have got the People to where they only want to hear soundbites. A discussion of any substantive length of any important issue is just too much for them to process. They have no idea that the primary campaigns are a dog and pony show where by the wealthy elite choose 2 candidates by the amount of money they give to the campaigns. Then they let the People decide between the two the Elite have selected knowing that it makes no difference which one wins because they are both owned by the Rich and Famous.

With the sham that the debates have become and that there will be no third party candidates to make the lesser of two evils actually speak with substance Americans will either be bored into not voting, or they will vote for reasons other than issues such as party loyalty as if they knew what that meant.

I will vote for Nader once again. Not because it will help him win, but because he is the best person for the job. I’d rather vote my conscience and loose than vote for the winner and be betrayed. Six months after the election is over the People will be whining and crying about how they were lied to. Welcome to the real world people!

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By troublesum, September 23, 2008 at 6:31 pm Link to this comment

From time to time Obama forgets which party he represents.  McCain has moved to the left of him on the bailout issue.  If Obama said he was going to cut what is left of the safety net to make up for the $700 billion bailout this is standard republican policy and it further punishes Main Street for Wall Street’s crimes.  He’s showing whose side he is on.  This is the shock doctrine.  Use disaster as an excuse to make right wing economic reforms.  Naomi Klein suggested that McCain would do this if elected, but Obama didn’t want to be outdone apparently.

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By lichen, September 23, 2008 at 6:07 pm Link to this comment

“Ralph Nader still believes the similarities between the major-party candidates outweigh the differences”

So do I; homophobic evangelical christian imperialist corporatism is all that’s on offer.  Obama is already boasting about how he is going to cut social programs to make up for the seven hundred billion gifts he supports giving to the robber barons; but he will still increase the military budget to murder poor people all the world over.

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By troublesum, September 23, 2008 at 6:02 pm Link to this comment

How old are Obama’s talking points?  Most of them are Clinton retreads.  We have one candidate who tells the truth about the shape the country is in but we have to vote for the democratic twerp because the republican one is worse.  Don’t push us.

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By Mayponce, September 23, 2008 at 5:39 pm Link to this comment

Oh shit, I forgot, we’re dealing with the lesser of two evils, grown up, pragmatic, vote for the winning side, guys who lost two elections to a moron from Texas.

And it’s all because of that pesky Ralph Nader and his high falutin’ idealism! If he’d just stay out of the race, the Democrats would get their turn to fix stuff and make the world wonderful!

Doesn’t he understand that only Republicans and Democrats can run for POTUS?

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By Gmonst, September 23, 2008 at 4:52 pm Link to this comment

I like Nader’s views on the issues, but the man has never been elected to any position.  Why doesn’t he get elected to the congress or the senate where he can actually do some good instead of vainly trying for an office he will never win.  Neither the democrats nor the republicans are that good, that much is true, but there are real differences between them.  Republicans take the cake in being devious, self-serving, and corrupt.  There are some democrats that at least try for a better situation for Americans.  Obama’s administration would not be the same thing as McCain’s.  To suggest so is idiotic.  Even the issues this commercial suggests they are identical on they have vast differences.  Cherry picking similar sounding sound bites doesn’t change that. Sometimes you just got to take the best of what you are given.  Nader hasn’t proved he can do anything in an elected position or even run a winning campaign.  Why should I waste my vote on him?

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By Stephen Smoliar, September 23, 2008 at 4:49 pm Link to this comment

This is a nice piece of work;  it demonstrates how much easier it is to stay on message when you are not beholden to all sorts of people out to compromise your message!

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