rowman, does it really make you feeletter when people say “Thank you for your service?” I hope so--cause that is about all you are going to get out of this administraiton. No GI Bill, limiiting disability claims (PTSD is now Peronsality disorder--an affliction that cannot be ‘caught” so late in life, they would have found it before they signed them oup--IF they wer still using standardizied tests--now they admit felons (violent ones--just their type)and..just anyone--behold Abu Gharib!!) Becaue most vets I now would prefer a pay raise (about half of what the mercenaries get, please?), a GI BILL, good body armour, and not to run out of food, water a bullts, on the battlefiedl because Halliburton’s employees are to drunk or lazy to deliver them!

I am married to a Vietnam vet--thank US for his Agent Orange problem!!!Nice name-calling, but its bs. What the HELL do you care how someone spells? I HAVE RA, which I think i mentioned to you before--i am not ABOUT to re-type things , adn cause myself pain (because I cannot afford RA meds) so you dont have to use what is left of your right brain to decipher sp errors. It seems you go the point, cause you sound awfuly pissed off.

KDelphi,

I have a military background and have fought for the rights you get to enjoy today. You’re welcome.

You strike me as some kid in his early tweens that should be in school learning to spell. You clearly have a spelling, reading, writing and research challenge. It is so sever, I cannot take you seriously so I am forced to ignore you unintelligible ranting.

Now run along and go back to school little boy.

On the surface are huge convoys with tankers full of snake oil and freighters full of money.  The crooks are so arrogant that they don’t even have escort protection.  AND THEY HAVE NO SONAR TO SPEAK OF.  They are sopciopaths who can manipulate simple human emotions, but they do not have the imagination to comprehend anything better.  Leave Amy in her lifeboat and come back later.

Fashion your own torpedoes and launch a wide spread.  As they said during World War II.  It is the happy time.

On the surface are huge convoys with tankers full of snake oil and freighters full of money.  The crooks are so arrogant that they don’t even have escort protection.  AND THEY HAVE NO SONAR TO SPEAK OF.  They are sopciopaths who can manipulate simple human emotions, but they do not have the imagination to comprehend anything better.

Fashion your own torpedoes and launch a wide spread.  As they said during World War II.  It is the happy time.

This rowman guy/gal is some type of military stooge or spec. cop. No one else uses terms like “breach of comand and control perimeter"--unless he is, like , a real fan of the gestapo.If Amy was arrested for a “dumb” or “stupid move”, --then, it was illegal--if people were arrested for dumb moves, esp ones that lead to tyhe death of millions)and that were the law of the land the White House and Pentagon would be empty, and the remainig military , who are largely protesting the war, could lead us in a coup d’etat--a peaceful one, but one where we could be protected from mercenaries. One can dream..Of course Dubya et al have committed war crimes (Rummy stil cannot enter Germany or Italy--they held trials for them there--they remember what jackbooted thugs do!)As for “never trusting Amy again"--really?? You were a big fan of her show before?? Because you just dont strike me as the type. “young adults"--alot of them are alot older than I am. (remember the “white little old ladies you referred to? That they “scared”? THEY WERE WITH THE PROTESTERS!Of course, there was not a “RIOT”, as you imply, and, as far as I’m concerned, things did not go afar enough! When the govt refuses to obey the laws, refuses to obey the will of hte people, refusese intl law--what does one do? Hail Dubya?? Now that would be a REALLY dumb move!. The Supreme Court has already ruled against thsi Adminis. many times--and HE APPOINTED THEM!@-but that it MOST CERTAINLY not what happend here--was anyone harmed by her actions? (No--property is NOT a “person”; corp. are not “people”; money is NOT “free speech”. ) A better court wil correct this.If you are so concerned with “law and order” (protest cannot happen with “order”, thus makikng law and order unconstitutional)why dont you use your “skills” to formulate an impeachment of Dubya et al? Or to indict Blackwater, who live by NO laws. If you love law and order, do something to stop this illegal war--invasion without provocation, (teh UN should be left to deal with breach of sanctions) and removal of a standing head of state. Even if you think “they would be better off"--they almost never are, and , in any case, it is not our business to decide. We could have/should have let the inspecters finish--Blitz and Ritter were forcefuly removed from the country by Rummy.If removing Sadam was OK--it should surely be legal to remove the head of state in one’s own coutnry when they abuse ths [people and break the law--Goodman et al were just trying to do it in a less violent fashion than Dubya has done to other countries.

I appreciate your optimism brother.

What we know is that a group of dimwits made a public proclamation to crash the convention and infringe on the free speech rights of others. They planned to use “unconventional” tactics such as, the disruption of the transportation system. There is no doubt this group exists and is present at the convention now.

This group does hold some responsibility here. By publically stating that they planned to “obtain press credentials” the local police on the ground were no doubt briefed on this. So during the riot, those press credentials were no doubt suspect. Two reporters were in the riot zone amid the chaos. They were detained and released once their credentials were verified.

Amy was not acting in a reporter’s capacity when she was detained. She was stepping into a lock down zone during a riot and was told not too repeatedly. She breached their perimeter, continued to argue with them and they detained her. No surprise there. She had access to some high ranking officials inside the convention but chose to take here argument to the riot police on the ground who were trying to restore peace and order. Dumb move.

Again I submit that the police were just trying to do a job and not be overrun by a group of young adults whose strategy was to “crash the convention”. The convention crashers are the ones to blame here. Amy just made a stupid move fueled by emotion and is trying to spin this into something more than it is. I have lost all respect for her and do not and will not trust anything she says ever again.

I do not concede that the police or anyone on the law enforcement side was engaged in illegalities. How do you conclude that she had a right to breach the Police command and control perimeter during a riot when she was told not to multiple times?

Re: rowman

You still haven’t conceded that police were engaged in illegalities ALSO.  And that Amy Goodman and her crew were ILLEGALLY DETAINED, FALSELY ARRESTED AND ILLEGALLY CHARGED.

Call a spade a spade, rowman.

Re: rowman

I’ve checked your links and I find nothing outlandish there.  These people feel that saving our country will require strong resistance.  This is not WAY OFF THE MARK, so to speak.  Could some of these INDIVIDUALS be “out there”..?  I suppose they could, but to claim that IN FACT they are, would be a philosophical debate.

Further, it seems questionable that if they seriously were, what many are claiming THEY ARE, that they would ANNOUNCE these things via the internet is suspect.  We are THOUROUGHLY AWARE OF GOVERNMENT SPYING.  Does in this case it not seem obviously stupid to BELIEVE that “covert anarchists” are staging a revolution VIA the internet!  How riduculous is that...?

I will say, it does make a person wonder, WHAT IS GOING ON HERE.  And this is what we need to ascertain.  Not were these supposed anarchists staging a covert revolution via the internet… C’mon!

This is the work of propagandists and flat out fucking liars, period… dot… end.  It’s too obvious.

When you are in a war, you have no rights.  Rights exist in the fighting spirit of suckers and slaves.  They have no written guarantees or form.

Crooks know this, that is why the do everything they can to demoralize the opposition.  Is anyone surprised?

Very good misdirection of the issue.  Amy is arrested and you are off on tangents.  If it was Robert Scheer, Dan Rathernot or Walter Cronkite would the same bile be presented.  Or more appropriate, would there be unanimous OUTRAGE leveled at the entire state minnesota.  I have made my choice.  I am OUTRAGED.

I checked the last two links--there is nothing in there that it illegal. Youre not allowed to just arrest people in the uS because they disagree with you. You also have a right to protest anyone, anywhere you wish (except private property--tho the neo-con Supreme Court might disagree), as long as you are not violent. If you dont like it--go join the Project for the New Am Cent. (which is never coming now, thanks to neo-cons)or Blackwatrer. They are looking for pepole who think the laws apply in any way they wish to enforce them , as to people who espres a desire to INFORM them of their disagreement with thei rmurder and war profiteering. Lemme ask you--if you could sto the murder of 100s of 1000s with a mic--would you do it? Anyone so concerned with “law and order” should be using thei skills to lock up the people who got us into this unbearable situation anyway--and I dont care if it is Dem members of Congress. How much $$ have you made off this, anyway?

lol.

Outrage, if it makes you feel better, yes. I absolutely concur and acknowledge that no information or activity should condone illegal activity. I am fully on board with you there.

The more you read about their “strategy” the more you inclined you are to have a bit of sympathy for the guys on the street having to keeps these kids in line and not shut down their city as they had hoped to do. They were well beyond talk and planning. They were definitely in to the execution phase of their silly little operation.

Re: rowman

The term “blockades” can mean several things.  I’m not familiar with this group, but thanks for the link.  I’ll check it out in more detail later on today.  Again, this was still a few, and you can’t necessarily condemn them all until you have an accurate grasp of their whole perspective.

I’ll be predisposed for a while but I’ll get back to you.

Still, this should not be used as an EXCUSE for illegalities by the police. Something you have yet to acknowledge.

Here are a couple more links

http://www.unconventionalaction.org/
Click on Resources: How to guides.

http://www.nornc.org/156/
Read the bottom paragraph specifically “That means one year to study maps, prepare blockades, run our sprints, climb fences, craft disguises, find press credentials”

Find press credentials eh. Amy can thank them for this.

Outraged,
I have no idea if it could stop a bus. You would know better than I so I would defer that to you. I’ve had a small nail in my tire ruin my day but don’t know much about bus tires I must admit.

Apparently, they think it would. No one said they were smart. 

http://www.nornc.org/2007/09/30/crash-the-convention-2 008-call-to-action/

Crash The Convention- 2008 Call To Action
How we get there (the strategy):

2. Transportation Troubles – This includes blockades downtown (at key intersections), on bridges (10 bridges over the Mississippi River in the metro area), and other sporadic and strategic targets (busses, hotel and airport shuttles etc).

No wonder the local police were on alert…

Re: Anarcissie, September 3 at 1:46 pm

Good post.  Thank you.

rowman: ‘Ah. I see, Its one giant conspiracy against you. That cop who is just trying to feed his family is really a body invaded by an alien life-force that is trying to keep you down. Paranoia…. You might want to get some treatment for that.’

I enjoy paranoia as much as anyone, but in this case I’ve been discussing concrete, material, observable behavior.  There is no need for an alien life-force or a conspiracy: everything is pretty much out in the open, if you’re willing to look.  The basic idea of the state is that some people can and should rule the others.  The police take jobs implementing part of that policy.  I have to assume they find the job reasonably congenial, or they’d find jobs doing something else, and they’re not “just trying to feed their families”, but believe in what they’re doing.  As I’ve just pointed out, part of overpowering other people—the essential function of the state—is denying them accurate knowledge, because knowledge is power.  Part of one’s job, as a state operative, then, is to conceal or distort facts.  That sounds weirdly contrary to what we’re taught in grade school, but then we observe endless evidence from the real world where that is exactly what happens, as in the example I gave you.  Observation supports the theory.

The anarchist’s objective is a confrontation with police....

Anarchists, being people, have a lot of different objectives.  Some of them may want to fight with the police, just as a lot of non-anarchists do.  In my experience it’s not a dominant theme in anarchism; after all, you become like those you fight against and eventually merge with them.  However, I think a lot of anarchists (and non-anarchist dissidents) do want to engage the society, the community, as a whole, on such issues as aggression, war, imperialism and repression.  Decades ago, people had big demonstrations, like the old Civil Rights and anti-war events.  The ruling class learned how to neutralize these actions and put them out of sight.  Half a million people demonstrated against the upcoming invasion of Iraq in 2003 and it was hardly noticed.  Today we have “free speech zones” which are of course specifically designed to prevent free speech.  The subsequent tactic, for some people (not me), seems to have been disruption by small groups, but as we can see from the events we’re discussing the authorities have no trouble infiltrating, intimidating and provoking these groups and then lying about it.  Meanwhile, the mainstream media have been disciplined to the point where they didn’t speak of the Soviet-style raids which preceded the demonstrations until they could preface them with accounts of street violence and the authorities’ interpretation of it (whereas in fact the authoritarian violence preceded the street violence).  So disruption doesn’t seem to be very effective either.  I won’t even go into the likelihood that those involved in disruption and vandalism are being led on by provocateurs; this message is long enough as it is.

Re: rowman

I took another look at the picture of that caltrop in the article you had linked to,

http://www.twincities.com/ci_10344356?source=most_emailed

Check out the picture of the caltrop again… Is that even large enough to stop a bus?  I used to drive school bus and from the picture they’re showing, looking at it in relation to the fingernail of the person holding it, it doesn’t look large enough to stop a bus, possibly not even puncture the tire.  I’m not sure, but I know any bus mechanic should be able to tell you right away.  Bus tires are much thicker than automobile tires.

Also, how did they know these were meant to stop a bus...?  Did these “anarchists” allude to that or something...?  I also KNOW that school buses have at least six tires, disabling one tire would not necessarily put you out of commission.  Tour type buses have more than that, with 2 sets of duallies, both sides in addition to the front tires (10 tires).

I suppose the intent could have still been there.  Which then, would make them inept crooks at that.  Hard to say.....hard to say.

Re: rowman

Your comment: “If the anarchists were not present, do you think this would even be an issue?”

Absolutely!  I definitely think that there was a cabal TRYING TO THWART FREE SPEECH.  And I think it was at the federal level.  And these goons USED these anarchists, those “FEW”, who MAY have engaged in illegalities, as a pretext for their ILLEGAL attempts to control AND disallow accurate media coverage.  Do I think the average “joe” officers on the street were aware of this....no.  They also were being used. Do I think there were those in the upper ranks of “The Cities” police departments who were involved.....yes.  I think there were those “in the know” and “those not in the know”.

Still, Amy Goodman and her crew were falsely arrested AND falsely charged.  That IS obvious, so who is behind this...?  Did you notice that her press “top security clearance credential” was immediately torn off by secret service.  Listen to her again:

http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content& task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=2216

And why were her crew members subjected to this type of police brutality.  This is the video recorded by Nicole Salazar during that “arrest”.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2jreRSEQ_yg

I think they were singled out.  I think it was a set-up.  This thing smells to high heaven.

It was an isue Denver---alhough, alot less brutal--the suppression stil happened. I guessits easier to see it as necessay when you agree with at least part of the huge power structure continuing, longer before, and after, this election.

I totally agree that it is guilt by association. The anarchists are trying to blend with peaceful protesters and they are the ones to blame.

Most police officers I know are card totting union members that usually vote democrat. These guys are picking the fight with the wrong people for one. The officers are just trying to do a job and go home. When the “riots” break out and rumors are out that anarchists may poses false credentials, what the hell are they supposed to do? They need to restore order and safety first and foremost. I don’t blame them and if I was a reporter who was caught up in it, I would still understand what they were up against. But that is just me.

I do not think this was some conspiracy to thwart free speech. If the anarchists were not present, do you think this would even be an issue?

Re: rowman

As regards the confiscated items:

“The statement said the items found in the searches included:

Materials to create “sleeping dragons” (PVC pipe, chicken wire, duct tape), which is when protesters lock themselves together
Large amounts of urine, including three to five gallon buckets of urine
Wrist rockets (high-powered slingshots)
A machete, hatchet and several throwing knives
a gas mask and filter
Empty glass bottles
Rags
Flammable liquids
Homemade caltrops (devises used to disable buses in roads)
Metal pipes
Axes
Bolt cutters
Sledge hammers
Rapelling equipment
Kryptonite locks
Empty plastic buckets cut and made into shields
Material for protective padding
An Army helmet.

Are any of these items illegal?  I thought this too was odd:
“Materials to create “sleeping dragons” (PVC pipe, chicken wire, duct tape), which is when protesters lock themselves together”

> Isn’t that alleging something which didn’t occur?  As in: “MATERIALS TO CREATE” and then transferring that into AND they would have done it.  But they didn’t.

Now the urine...? You got me....is there a use for this much urine....we need McGyver.  As it is, it appears there were those who MAY have been up to no good, however most of these items ARE legal.  I’m not sure about the caltrops, but the rest appear to be legal.

Back to the article: “Five people have been arrested and four properties have been searched, according to the sheriff’s office.”

> Only five people, out of ALL those who were terrorized with assault weapons by the police.  The article also claims four properties were searched, but how many were caught in the middle which were completely innocent AND what about the alleged thuggish police behavior during these raids?

In addition, this STILL doesn’t address, in fact, IT ATTEMPTS TO STEER CRITICISM away from NUMEROUS ACTS of police brutality and illegalities.  Do you think there are FIVE video taped instances of police brutalities, NOT ALLEDGED but DOCUMENTED, currently out on the internet...?  MUCH MORE SERIOUS THAN A FEW PAILS OF PISS.

Has the MSM “picked-up” on this story yet...?  I haven’t checked today, yet.  Either way, there are also numerous reports of attempting to STOP THE PRESS FROM DOING THEIR JOBS.  This is illegal.  It is NOT less illegal than committing any other crime.  It is a crime.  It seems to me that you are attempting a logic which says “one crime deserves another” and so then all is “good”.  Even if one were to take you position, then ALL should be in jail or NO ONE.

Still...none of this qualifies the illegal arrest of Amy Goodman or crew members, Sharif Abdel Kouddous and Nicole Salazar.

Just one more point, how many police officers have been arrested regarding their illegal actions?

Cops are the biggest bunch of liars you will ever meet. They are serial liars, and lying is a normal part of police culture and procedure.  You can always count on cops to lie, especially in situations like this.  They need to make it look like they did some “good” and got some “bad-guys” they will lie and distort the truth to make that happen.  Not one of those items are illegal.  Buckets of piss are not illegal.  If they had these people nailed, why didn’t they watch them and strike when they were actually doing something illegal?  They have been arrested for their political beliefs and nothing else.  Just another incident in this developing trend of arresting people for what they might do instead of what they did.  We have a right to protest!

Re: rowman

Good article.

An excerpt: “People planning to protest at the Republican National Convention and St. Paul City Council Member Dave Thune are calling the actions a preemptive strike before the RNC, which starts Monday.

St. Paul’s mayor said this afternoon that free speech rights are separate from criminal behavior.

“We have worked very, very hard to make sure we’ve protected people’s right to exercise free speech,” Coleman said. “To pick up a protest sign, that’s fine. If you’re here to pick up a brick or some other instrument there’s a problem.”

It continues: “Thune has been concerned about the conduct of authorities in the last 24 hours regarding activists.

“This is all about free speech,” Thune said. “It’s what my father fought in the war for. To me, this smacks of preemptive strike against free speech.”

This is correct, and I agree with St. Paul City Council member Thune and the mayor on both these issues.  No one is advocating illegalities, BOTH SIDES!

Then there was this: “"We, just like the Republicans, have the right to free speech,” Honkala said. One speaker, who said she does not belong to any protest group, but lives in St. Paul and has been helping visiting protesters, said the raid on the convergence center was unprompted and that the people there had done nothing wrong.”

> This is simply guilt by association.  If we use the logic that police terrorizing INNOCENT members of this group is justified, then in turn this would make retaliation to cops (any cops) also justified. Do you UNDERSTAND why it was wrong now....?  You cannot “sweep up” and terrorize ALL MEMBERS of a group simply because SOME break the law.  BOTH SIDES.

Ah. I see, Its one giant conspiracy against you. That cop who is just trying to feed his family is really a body invaded by an alien life-force that is trying to keep you down. Paranoia…. You might want to get some treatment for that.

The anarchist’s objective is a confrontation with police. That is the only possible outcome from their actions. You can see video all over the internet where they are smashing windows, causing mayhem and even attacked a cop. You can view photos of the items confiscated but those photos and videos are all planted huh. The anarchists are just peaceful demonstrators.

Grow up dude. That convention has a right to free speech as well. The anarchists are looking for a fight and they are making all of the protestors (peaceful or not) look bad.

rowman: ‘… Why do you want to defend the anarchists that disrupted the peaceful protests and gave them a black eye? Are you saying they are all one???’

My experience with police and other authoritarians is that they lie a lot.  Theory accords with this perception: the authoritarians believe in a hierarchy of power, and knowledge is power, so, if you want to stay high up and keep other people down, it is useful to conceal knowledge and to pollute the knowledge of those outside your power structure—in other words, give them misinformation, propaganda, lies.  Therefore, my instinct whenever I read about a conflict between the police and anti-authoritarian political groups is to suspect that the authoritarians are lying about it.  A recent case in point: New York City is now paying out millions of dollars to settle lawsuits because the police beat up and arrested peaceful demonstrators and then lied about it during the RNC in 2004.

You seem to have a fairly vague, malleable notion of truth yourself.  I have not, actually, defended any “anarchists that disrupted the peaceful protests”; all that I have done is point out the specious quality of the accusations against them.  Before I can criticize any alleged malefactors, it will be necessary to establish some notion of the facts other than police propaganda.  That may take a long time, given the interests of the authorities in obscuring and deforming the facts.  (Hence the targeting of people with cameras.) In any case there is no point in discussing such issues with authoritarians because they believe in power, not truth; anything said will either be turned to propaganda or ignored, just as it is in the boss media today.

rowman: ‘… Those threats gave the local police force all the ammunition they needed. Smashing windows, creating mayhem in the streets and attacking a cop does not help their case. They claim to have seized buckets of urine. WTF? You can’t make that stuff up.  What kind of sick person stockpiles urine?...’

Actually, you can make stuff like that up.  And you can interpret ordinary household items like bleach, oven cleaner and the contents of a chamber pot as weapons.  However, I was more interested in the advanced munitions described, which of course haven’t showed up.  Prediction: the MSM will conflate the science fiction with whatever was found (or supplied by the police).

From what I read most recently, the police are making a strong effort to seize video and other cameras.  That’s the secret weapon they seem to be most afraid of.

I don’t know if they talked but the accusation is that they threatened to do X.

Those threats gave the local police force all the ammunition they needed. Smashing windows, creating mayhem in the streets and attacking a cop does not help their case. They claim to have seized buckets of urine. WTF? You can’t make that stuff up.  What kind of sick person stockpiles urine?

Here is another article that has some photos of the items seized.
http://www.twincities.com/ci_10344356?source=most_emailed

Re: rowman

I still haven’t seen how Amy Goodman broke the law. 

Are you claiming that asking to speak to a supervisor while you are wearing the highest clearance creditials given by the Secret Service to the press, to inquire about crew members who have been ILLEGALLY DETAINED AND ABUSED, is an arrestable offense?!

Your argument has NO BASIS.  They arrested Amy Goodman without CAUSE.  PRESS HAS A RIGHT TO BE THERE.  Read the constitution.

Re: rowman

Look again at what you’re advocating.

The article you linked to CLAIMS:

the “members” of the group, “TALKED about tactics to “shut down the RNC.”

and “TALKED about an “action camp”

and, “An individual by the name of ‘Henry’ TOLD the action camp group”

and, “Another person TALKED about using large puppets to conceal and transport Molotov cocktails, bricks,”

and, “The affidavit also said that group e-mails from the Welcoming Committee TALKED about leaving abandoned or overturned vehicles at intersections”

> That certainly sounds like ALL talk to me, rowman.  Where’s their evidence?  What this article is claiming is that SOME OF THE MEMBERS, INCLUDING THE INFORMANT “talked” about this or that.  You never heard of young people shooting their mouths off.  This was a group of YOUNG PEOPLE.  Even if they had said some of these things, would it be that odd...?  They should have tapes of these conversations....shouldn’t they, this is the 21st century.  And I’d be curious to know WHO brought up the matter, IF IT WAS DISCUSSED AT ALL, could it have been the “informant”.  What tops off the whole ordeal is THEY FOUND NOTHING.

In addition, look how specious this statement is: “investigators seized homemade devices used to disable buses and other vehicles, weapons, gas masks, flammable liquids and rags that could be used to make Molotov cocktails, computer storage devices, documents, pamphlets and banners.”

Let’s looks at this piece of propaganda, “seized homemade devices to disable buses”, I’m curious, what were those...?  And wasn’t it LAW ENFORCEMENT which stopped the Earth Justice bus and left ALL it’s riders stranded on the side of the road.  For what...?  We’re these “dangerous” people too.  It’s is highly suspicious and appears a direct attempt to quelch dissent.

It claims, “and weapons”.  Like what..? Kitchen knives...?  Pocket knives...what OTHER WEAPONS...?  Did they happen to have “bigger stones in their driveway”...what...what “other weapons”.

The article also claims, “flammable liquids and rags that could be used to make Molotov cocktails”

Then it says, “which COULD BE USED to make Molotov cocktails”.  Well...rowman...how many people in America have some sort of “flammable liquid” in their home along with “rags”.  This is bullshit.  This “innuendo” is saying but they “could have used” this or that to do this or that, the fact is THEY DIDN’T, and the materials found would indict most of America if one used this type of EMBELLISHMENT!

When you add to this ALL the illegal behavior directed at protesters or individuals who MONITOR THE POLICE, it becomes even MORE suspect.

RE: KDelphi, September 3 at 5:53 am #

“the story does not say exactly wehat you said it says”

You propagandist lying piece of crap. I copied and pasted the article you illiterate prick. You can compare it word for word! Jokes on you fool.

Anarcissie,
No sure what you are saying. The police say that they confiscated all kinds of nefarious stuff. Buckets of urine? Feces? Etc. etc.

Not for me to defend anyway. Take it up with their local police force that executed the searches.

Why do you want to defend the anarchists that disrupted the peaceful protests and gave them a black eye? Are you saying they are all one???

re: Celsius 232.77777777777777778

Powaqqatsi? Well let me put it this way. I was hauling dirt away from the Blackwater Mountain training camp when a boulder came rolling down and hit me square on my very round head.
Later, when I was revived and checked for concussion, my construction supervisor told me not to fret. Collateral construction site damage is just a part of the Naqoyqatsi way of doing things.
Peace.

It is going to happen again in Ohio, but the DNC seems oblivious! I helped moveon.org with this isn 2004--but they cant do much if the DNC wont help them--Tubs JOnes (RIP) and Boxer TRIED to do something--the Dems had “another hearing” and “moved on”!

Remember the intimidation tactics used on vote counters in Florida?  This is just more of the same.  I wouldn’t worry about rights.  I would worry more about smarts and how we can outflank or diffuse these tactics.

rowman quotes: ... “An individual by the name of ‘Henry’ told the action camp group that he was throwing a liquid-filled balloon and that members of the group should stay away from the area … because it would be very dangerous,” the document said. “Henry stated the balloon was filled with a chemical that would be very dangerous and if caught, he would go to jail for a long time.” ...

Isn’t interesting, then, that they didn’t find any of this nifty stuff?  Even when doing Soviet-style break-ins at 3 a.m.?

Looks like they failed to observe standard police procedure: when going on a raid, be sure to bring enough evidence.

@ beerdoctor;

Oh, by the way, did you also see Powaqqatsi?  Excellent followup.
Peace

@ beerdoctor;

Koyaanisqatsi: My goodness, the Hopi saying; “system out of balance”.  I couldn’t be more impressed!  You must be older than you sound.  But, big but, nobody has asked what it means.  You are preaching to the passive, blogging, uninvolved, disconnected, do nothing masses.  I do enjoy your posts, Koyaanisqatsi, wow, 20+ years since I heard that one...good on ya!

I think you may be right about Blackwater. I wish ONE of the two parties would make it a point to get rid of htem. We “cant get by without them”? Other countries do. We always have. They are a right-wing neo-con task force, shaming our country and military thoroughout the world. What they have done, from Baghdad to new Orleans , is unforgiveable, and criminal , under even the most primitive systems’ laws. So, why not held accountable so far? Both parties decided it was oK to have a bunch of US citizens (and others--you can be a former Pinochet guard, a pissed off guy, poor as hell, from former Yugoslavia, Uzbekistan--BW doesnt care!)fight and kill under NO DISCERNIBLE LAW WHATSOEVER that would be recognized by world courts! Id rather die than live under the jackboot of these basterds. The School of hte Americas--only a bigger paycheck!

rowman--I went to that site--the story does not say exactly wehat you said it says, and I urge people to check it out. Being of a short atten span, I cannot/will not check out al the links here. I do know one, thing--pro-active arrest (arresting people for what they might do) is UNCONSTITUTIONAL! Alot of people are saying the pigs lied--oh NEVER!! The opinion pages on your site also show the same dopgged-rightwing neo-con crap as you do--you “want the govt out of our lives” , yes you want an anti-terrorist police state”. I’ll take my chances, as far as that goes, because I certasinly dont trust any one guy--esp Dubya!!- to “protect us”. He sure as hel didnt do it before. blame Clinton, whatever. The fact remains, that the worst attack in our nation’s history happened on neo-cons “we’ll protect you ma’em’s” watch!If he’d been a Dem (or, if the Dems had any balls) he’s be impeached, long ago

Goodman was told by someone on the Minneapolis police force that the storm trooper who arrested her was “not one of ours.” It seems likely that he was a Blackwater employee.  Since democracynow has covered the rise of Blackwater better than any other news organization I have to wonder if she and the other democracynow reproters were roughed up because of their exposure of Blackwater.

Democracy Now! is one of the only news shows that can be trusted, not wholeheartedly, but trusted some.  But.....
Why’d the camera remain on Amy as she ran to the police line.  Then, in her show she downplayed her arrest to highlight Sherif’s and Carole’s.  It’s as if she’s saying, “I’m not the news but keep the camera on me so I can deflect the spotlight to whomever I choose.
The Police reactions, however, just verifies that we already have a full Nazi-like Police State.  This is worse.  Our Nazis are, for most part, ignoramuses with too much testosterone and .....No brains.

This country suffers from a constitutional form of Koyaanisqatsi. The people abandon the time honored concept of limited government and demand for an even more powerful executive branch. Both Senators McCain and Obama do a disservice when they claim the President’s job is to protect the people. No it is not. The second amendment, so distorted by the gun lobby and those opposed to it, was put there for one specific reason: to enable the people to protect themselves from the abuses of government. It was a vaccine against the federal government disarming the citizenry and imposing rule through a standing army or select militia. And now we have Blackwater and other privatized federal contractors, that neither of the two candidates wish to abolish.

But what is truly disquieting about all of this, is that the people, the people who see their own liberties being taken away, actually call for this to happen by demanding a strong chief executive to lead them out of the wilderness, that the same executive branch has chosen to create.
So the next time you hear McCain or Obama saying they will protect you, consider what it truly is: a power hungry grab, based on nothing.

The why factor is starting to be answered.
+ 5 points to the thebeerdoctor for calling out government “spies"…

http://www.ajc.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/09/0 2/anarchists_republican_convention.html

Almost a year to the day before the Republican National Convention began, members of a self-described anarchist group gathered to talk about ways to disrupt it, including kidnapping delegates, sabotaging air vents at the Xcel Energy Center, blocking bridges and “capturing federal buildings” in Minneapolis and St. Paul.
Unbeknownst to the group, the RNC Welcoming Committee, two police informants and an undercover investigator had infiltrated their ranks, according to an affidavit and search warrant application filed Tuesday. The informants and investigator accessed group e-mails, attended meetings, talked strategies with members and participated in camps and workshops.
The 17-page document, signed by Ramsey County District Judge Joanne Smith, laid out the evidence that led the Ramsey County Sheriff’s Department to raid a St. Paul business and three Minneapolis homes Friday night and Saturday morning.
The affidavit paints a picture of a group that recruited participants from 67 cities and was intent on creating havoc.

According to the document:
• The RNC Welcoming Committee held two “pReNC” gatherings, one from Aug. 31 through Sept. 1, 2007, and another on May 3. At the first, 150 to 200 people — including one of the informants — talked about tactics to “shut down the RNC.” At the second, St. Paul was divided into seven sectors for various anarchist groups to claim.
• The affidavit also talked about an “action camp” held July 31 to Aug. 3 at Lake Geneva, Minn.
• “An individual by the name of ‘Henry’ told the action camp group that he was throwing a liquid-filled balloon and that members of the group should stay away from the area … because it would be very dangerous,” the document said. “Henry stated the balloon was filled with a chemical that would be very dangerous and if caught, he would go to jail for a long time.”
• Another person talked about using large puppets to conceal and transport Molotov cocktails, bricks, caltrops (devices used to stop buses and other vehicles), shields and lockboxes, the affidavit said. They also planned to throw marbles under the horses of the mounted patrol to trip the horses.
• Participants did role playing and attended demonstrations on how to use a large barrel filled with concrete and steel pipes to help protesters block streets.
The affidavit also said that group e-mails from the Welcoming Committee talked about leaving abandoned or overturned vehicles at intersections, pulling a single officer from a police line and beating him, using liquid sprayers filled with urine or chemicals, “unarresting” techniques to free people arrested by police, obtaining fake credentials and dozens of other tactics.
The sheriff’s investigation culminated in raids of the RNC Welcoming Committee’s “Convergence Center” in St. Paul, and homes in Minneapolis.
A total of seven people were arrested in connection with the raids. Six are being held in the Ramsey County jail, a seventh has been released pending further investigation.
On Tuesday, District Judge Kathleen Gearin denied an emergency motion brought by eight plaintiffs — including at least one of those arrested — to have some of the items seized by police returned to them.
“Who should we return the urine to?” Gearin asked.
In addition to buckets of urine, investigators seized homemade devices used to disable buses and other vehicles, weapons, gas masks, flammable liquids and rags that could be used to make Molotov cocktails, computer storage devices, documents, pamphlets and banners. Some materials, such as banners and signs, were returned Monday for demonstrators to use during the protest marches. Albert Goins Sr., attorney for the plaintiffs, said they are likely to file an emergency appeal to get the rest of it back.

Our constitution is not republican or democrat, it’s American!  Judging from the posts here and elsewhere; it is apparent why this country will go down.  We are no longer a unified country able to recognize differences but still able to unify under the banner of our constitution and the rights guaranteed therein.  Apparently, all we see is left and right.  “We” no longer care about the greater good; only our petty, selfish, greedy, and self interested concerns.  A house divided against itself will fall.  Bye, bye American pie...........

The latest video interview of Amy Goodman at the RNC by “Real News Network”.

http://therealnews.com/t/index.php?option=com_content& task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=2216

Re: rowman

In addition, what about officers who don’t engage in these types of illegalities.  How are these RENEGADES endangering their lives.  I’ve watched many videos and have heard this side also.

Who speaks for them..? These crooks with a badge..?  Doesn’t this put honest cops between a rock and a hard place?  Where are the superiors of those who engage in this?  Why are they not speaking up?  These officers are in the employ of THE PEOPLE, not of the elites, nor of politicians.

Re: rowman

I think that that is terrible also.  Why can’t we have the truth.  These journalists were BREAKING NO LAWS, it is their JOB to cover breaking news.  Here’s another one:

“ST. PAUL—Donna Brazile was hit by pepper spray as she walked to the Xcel Center at the start of the Republican Convention here.”

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/09/01/ donna_brazile_hit_by_pepper_sp.html

Another story of the ILLEGAL harrassement and intimidation of reporters in The Cities.

http://qik.com/video/249562

Also a portion of Glenn Greenwald’s article cites your premise and carries the same link:

“There is clearly an intent on the part of law enforcement authorities here to engage in extreme and highly intimidating raids against those who are planning to protest the Convention. The DNC in Denver was the site of several quite ugly incidents where law enforcement acted on behalf of Democratic Party officials and the corporate elite that funded the Convention to keep the media and protesters from doing anything remotely off-script. But the massive and plainly excessive preemptive police raids in Minnesota are of a different order altogether. Targeting people with automatic-weapons-carrying SWAT teams and mass raids in their homes, who are suspected of nothing more than planning dissident political protests at a political convention and who have engaged in no illegal activity whatsoever, is about as redolent of the worst tactics of a police state as can be imagined.”

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/08/31

This is the link I intended to link to earlier but had mistakenly forgot to put “the” in it’s address.  Scroll to the bottom of the page and there is a wealth of video of police illegalities.

http://theuptake.org/

The one I especially liked is entitled “Police are Acting Like Nazis”.  This illuminates the fact that these are NOT THE CRIMINAL elements we are led to believe they are, as do MOST of these videos.  Disgraceful.

There were also these on youtube.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHpDQpZ_NAI&feature =related

Was this really needed, or was it to further intimidate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6HHhqQYy-Q8

What about this man, in this one WHERE’S THE “RIOT”...?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxJvKmzwhb4&feature =related

In addition, it seems MSM doesn’t find these things important enough to cover.  At least not on the two major networks, I watched tonight.

There were blantant illegalities going on here.  The videos show this, AND yes, I agree, some of these things went on at the DNC in Denver, I’ve watched quite a few of those videos too.  But nothing to the degree of confiscating and terrorizing those PLANNING to protest.

It has now become clear that this was done by federal agents.  This is alarming.

As the police attacks on protesters in Minnesota continue—see this video of the police swarming a bus transporting members of Earth Justice, seizing the bus and leaving the group members stranded on the side of the highway—it appears increasingly clear that it is the Federal Government that is directing this intimidation campaign. Minnesota Public Radio reported yesterday that “the searches were led by the Ramsey County Sheriff’s office. Deputies coordinated searches with the Minneapolis and St. Paul police departments and the Federal Bureau of Investigation.”

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2008/09/01-5

rowman: ‘… If you had that suck job, I am sure you would have taken the same action. ...’

Don’t forget that the action began with breaking down the doors of peaceful, innocent people at 3 a.m. and stealing their stuff in order to intimidate or provoke them.  I would not have that suck job, because I would refuse to take it.

I think this country has had to endure enough of that.  People are secretive because they are planning some sort of manipulation or con.  I like a reporter with guts and smarts.

Outraged,

Riots were breaking out and crowd control was in effect.  Some reporters were temporarily detained but what do you expect when they are dealing with such a volatile situation? Ask everyone for press credentials – are you serious? Their first concern is safety. If you had that suck job, I am sure you would have taken the same action.

I do not agree that it was her position to interfere and question anyone in the middle of a mêlée. She is not their legal counsel and even if she was, that was not the time or place to try and resolve the situation. She acted irresponsibly.

An ABC reporter was detained during the DNC convention for filming a secret meeting of mega donors. That was egregious activity but none of you were upset about that were you. You want to defend a reporter that lacks self control who instigated a confrontation with riot police. Way to go.

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/Conventions/story?id=5668622

The perpetual endless virginity of the left never stops amazing me.  We have been in a state of war with the right since the 2000 election.  Yet a simple stir- em-up tactic works like a charm.  I wish the left would stop fearing war so much, so that they could learn some of its simplest cons.  Now the left is concerned about civil rights when they should be launching attacks on the basis of crooks and the crooked war.

My country tis of thee, sweet land of liberty, of thee i sing…

I am so tired of hearing of all the non-freedom loving places that we intend to set to rights while shit like this happens right here at home.

I can not change what happened.  But I can make changes.  As of today I and my company will no longer buy anything that is made or passes through the state of minnesota. sic.

I was speaaking of the thug in here--if you give people “nothing to lose”, there will be a violent backlash, sooner or later. In the uS--later, because, despite the economy, most people are still pretty comfortable.But at the rate CEOs are getting paid, the corp shipping everything overseas, more and more peoplewithout health care--the time wil come when people will no longer just eat cake!@The sooner the better for me! I’m not missing the Revolution, if it comes, even if I die there. At the rate this country is going, the poor are all goin g to die, anyway.

By KDelphi, September 2 at 2:33 pm

***until they hear the guillotine***

Read Naomi Klein’s ‘The Shock Doctrine’ and after the 1st chapter some may think the guillotine the better choice. What has the potential for coming down the pike is a lot lot worse than a quick death, if they catch you. My plan is to never ever go to one of or any of those blowhard long winded love fests put on by the dems or repubs, there are a lot better things to do in life.

I’m upset too. It’s hard to give up on convincing someon of hte obvious truth, especially when they have no feelings for anyone that is not in authrotiy. But, some people just never get it--until they hear the guillotine!!

To all: I’m too angry and upset and sad about what is happening to this country to post any more here for a while. I’m really distraught with grief and disbelief. I’m taking a long break. See y’all later. Regards.

There were ALL KINDS of “little white ladies” (I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant “little white haired ladies")at the protest! Most of them were NOT screaming “Obama!” and wer in Denver also. If you are arguing against the right to protest, you have a long road ahead of you against the sharpest minds inthe cuntry. As far as spelling--wtf cares?! Not only that, some of us have physical prob. thaat cause our typing to be off--you probaly hate disabled people, too, you hateful old basterd. If people like you keep this crap up, it is only a matter of time before you end up like other counttries that squandered their resources and let their masses starve. I hope they catch you right onthe front lines!

Most likely another republican trick to make it appear that they have been violated. I wonder how many of the demonstrators were paid neocon operatives?
And somebody help here, with the press reporting about 300 arrests at the RNC, how many were there at the DNC.
A thing that bothers me is the seemingly pleasure these police take in roughing up people that are obviously not committing crimes of any kind and no threat to anybody(at least anybody that has nothing to hide). Or, why aren’t the police capable of questioning the authority of the orders given them?
Truely Orwellian.

Re: rowman

She was asking to speak to a supervisor about her crew members which had been ILLEGALLY detained.  She has EVERY right to do that, EXCEPT of course in a police state.  Convienient how her floor pass at the convention was then immediately revoked by the Secret Service.  This situation SMELLS of a set-up.