By cyrena, August 14 at 5:40 pm

Yeah, if you find that about the ‘mass departure’ I am curious enough to want to read it. And I have thougt about the idea of being able to legally ‘visit’ this country just as we can do like wise and the mention of procreating the size of minorities is a no brainer, even though for me it is troubling in the sense that to me the biggest problem in the world today is the size of the human poplulation, well over 6.5 billion people and the inability for people to have that magical ‘equal opportunity’ to live a relatively safe and secure life mostly due to the current political, religious and economic systems in force today.
Somewhere down the line the whole world became infected with, what for a better term, ‘elites’. This is understandable as just as a class system is understandable in the scope of different societies, where it went from the smartest and strongest now to the richest which is a perceived status as you can’t eat money, gold or jewels or effectively defend youself with them literally. But this infection is more about the ‘elites’ that are now embracing a criminality that somehow comes from plan to actually do something about the over population as if they do have a right to do that. I just cannot really understand it in anyother way as there has to be a reason or cause for the effect we see.
I definitely don’t have the information to verify this only the obvious: 6.5+ billion people, the inability to provide for this many people with the political, economic, religious systems and let us not forget the 7 deadly sins that the human animal is endowed with whether most or some are subservient to them or not. It is a mess and trying to fix it is like trying to stop the rain or stop people from screwing(literally or figuratively)or defining the universe. But to just lay down is not an option. If I had a plan other than moving to another country(scandinavian for me) I would do my best to work it.
For now, commenting and reading comments is a solace for me. Trying to find a closer truth works to as I found as long as tried to ignore or relie on others for information I was in more cases than I want admit figuratively screwed. Finding real information makes me feel more confident in how I feel and what I am willing to tell others.

Part 1 of 2 reply to By samosamo, August 13 at 11:33 pm
samosamo,

If I can find the piece that I read recently about the large departure of so-called ‘illegals’ leaving, I’ll post it here for you. (I’ve always had such a problem with the ‘illegal’ terminology, but then maybe it’s my linguistic sensitivities). I remember questioning that long ago, in reference to terminology associated with human beings born ‘out of wedlock’. They are referenced (among other things) as ‘illegitimate’ which is the same thing as ILLEGAL. So, one could make the presumption that if one ENTERS THE WORLD as a criminal, (illegal) then things might not work out so well for them, eh? How the hell does a newborn start our ‘illegal’ anyway? Is it the same way that the next 4 or 5 generations of Americans will be overdrawn at the bank before they’re even CONCEIVED? Like, anybody born today will have a statement/invoice attached and filed with their birth certificate, YOU OWE US, $377,682.43 as of today, and interest will accrue at varying rates, depending on how fast your parents wise up.

But I digress. I was going to provide just a brief sort of a run down on the so-called ‘illegals’ here, as well as the ‘undocumented workers’ because it’s become such a lazy exercise to point the finger at a particular ‘entity’ without even knowing the real breakdown.

So, for the record, *about* (roughly) 62% of the so-called ‘illegals’ enter this country perfectly ‘legally’. They enter via many ports, (not just the road between here and Mexico) and they generally have documents that allow them to be here. It’s been that way for decades. They ‘become’ ‘illegal’ because they stay beyond their officially mandated time, and in the past, the government has never spent any considerable time tracking them down.

As an aside, THAT’S why this stupid wall is such a farce. The feds (DHS) have taken property legally owned by Americans, (but avoided taking the property of the elites in the same areas) to build this wall, and are using our tax dollars to build it, when the reality is that less than 10% of the so-called ‘illegals’ or undocumented workers, actually ENTER the country that way. That’s not to say that many have not tried, but it’s not exactly a pleasant journey, so many have died in the process.

Still, my point is that most don’t come here illegally to begin with, and only become that way based on expired visas. I’m sure there’s probably a breakdown somewhere, but then again…maybe not. We used to actually keep track of these things, but it should be obvious from the past 8 years of * intentional* inefficiency, that is NOT the case. Chaos reigns, (again, intentionally) and so it becomes easy enough for ‘the masses’ to point the finger at ‘illegal aliens’ as the culprits for all of our woes. That is even MORE the case for the populations of states like California, if only because we’ve ALWAYS had a larger population of Hispanics than other parts of the country, since we actually WERE Mexico, before we were colonized and then stolen during the Spanish American War. Human societies never move to the same tune as those drawing the lines on the map.

Part 2 of 2

But, they DO move for a variety of other reasons, and in the past few decades, it’s been primarily an economic one. Like I said before, WE are there, so THEY are here. Hundreds of thousands of acres of farmland previously owned by Mexicans in Mexico have been taken by corporate interests from the US, forcing them off of their lands, and out of an income. So yeah, where else are they likely to go? They’ve come here, and in the process, it’s true that they have displaced other workers, (mostly Hispanic Americans and Blacks) who previously did these jobs in the agricultural and meatpacking industries, as well as the domestic service industry. A few of my younger colleagues visited the deep South of America a few years ago on a project of sorts, and were surprised to find so many black people in the service industry as maids, cooks, etc, etc. They are accustomed to Hispanics performing all of those jobs here in Southern California, and have had little other exposure. Things change, but not all of the elements of WHY they change, are fully recognized at the surface.

And, I’m STILL trying to figure out a way to move to the West Coast of Mexico, but so far, it ain’t happenin’. I can’t even finance a measly house car. (AKA RV, Motor Home, whatever you wanna call ‘em). So I guess I’ll have to settle for a tent on the beach on this side of the border, and be grateful for that.

Wages and benefits in the US have declined due to deregulation, union busting, and, as cyrena points out, unfair trade agreements.

Thanks for the update as I did not realize that many americans have MOVED to mexico based on a bias that it was so dirt poor and bandits running amouk and the vacation spots too expensive to settle down in but to think about it, americans are fleeing this country in a sense and have been for some time as central america is loaded with them, south america, well just about every where where if they have enough money they are allowed in. And like you, if I had the money I would leave, this place has me depressed by all the ‘elected and power(money)elites that have done a major job of tearing this country up to where it is almost not even recognizable. But it also makes me very mad that these low life ‘elites’ get their way and continue to mess things up which makes me really think that they recognize the discomfort of so many people bumping into each other that some sort of depopulation is in order for their convenience. It’s late and I hope this makes sense.

•  “…But because of the flood of illegal workers to the US, wages have lowered, benefits disappeared, and working conditions have deteriorated. US based companies realized the benefit of cheap “stupid” laborors and pushed the US into “free trade agreements” with third world nations that they could easily move operations to and operate with regulatory impunity.”

No Bob, this isn’t the reason at all for the fact that US wages have lowered, or that benefits have disappear, or that working conditions have deteriorated. Nope, you’ve got your fingers pointed in some very wrong directions.

For one thing, your benefits, wages, working conditions have been deteriorating for about 40 years now. And NOBODY ‘pushed’ the US into their free trade agreements, unless you’re calling the neolibs, (CLINTONS) and their repiglican counterparts that came before, (REGAN, BUSH I) into these so-called ‘free trade agreements”. It’s the ‘free trade agreements’ that FORCED Latin Americans out of Mexico and other parts of Latin America, to come HERE! Why the hell else would anybody leave there, to come here?

Let me repeat that. Thanks to ‘free trade agreements’ THEY are HERE, because WE ARE THERE!

And who are you calling ‘stupid’ laborers? The Americans who allowed their unions to be busted up, and all of their work shipped to 3rd world countries?

As for this…

•  “My great great grandparents came to the US LEGALLY, during the industrial revolution. That mass influx of new citizens was planned and needed by the economy of that era.”

Planned the same as they planned those 5 million slaves kidnapped from Africa to do the start-up?

I don’t see as how your great-great grandparents came here anymore ‘legally’ than half of my own did, when they were kidnapped, chained up as chattels, and traded on the then ‘open slave market’ to serve as the BACKBONE of the founding economy in this place. They weren’t here ‘legally’ and nobody else that’s come here since the place was invaded by Euros is any ‘more legal’ than the ones that were already here to begin with! For you to claim that your ancestors came here ‘legally’ is that same as me stealing a car and then claiming to sell it to you/ ‘legally’.

So put THAT in your ‘stupid’ pipe and smoke it. And, pick your own grapes, bananas, tomatoes, etc, and slaughter your own meat for delivery to the local diner as well. When’s the last time you saw a white person picking your groceries? Do ya think they ‘applied’ and got turned down for the jobs? Maybe some sort of ‘reverse discrimination’ or something?

Still, if it makes you feel any better, they’re LEAVING. In droves. And samosamo, you’ve definitely hit on a reality here…

•  “Hell, it just may turn out that mexico will look like a paradise if and when this resession turns into a depression.”

Let’s put the truth out there…Mexico is already a PARADISE compared to here..at least in many places, which is exactly why Gringos have been buying up property there, and retiring there for decades. And, it’s also why so many boomers are doing exactly that, right now. And if I had any money, I would too! I don’t know how to speak Spanish, but I’d sure make it a point to learn.

As for the people of Mexico gaining control of their country, THAT would involve running the Americans out! Specifically the corporations and ‘free market traders’ that have exploited them THERE, as much as they exploit them HERE! (along with the rest of us).

Why don’t the illegals go back to mexico and start a revolution to get control of the country back. I think that is what will happen here because in my previous comment I said what is coming here, the resession we are in will turn into a depression and all hell is likely to break loose then.

My great great grandparents came to the US LEGALLY, during the industrial revolution. That mass influx of new citizens was planned and needed by the economy of that era. WE CANNOT HANDLE IT NOW! There is no economic boom, just about 30 million illegals dragging wages and lifestyles of a large block of Americans down to the level of poverty that the illegals left behind in the shithole country’s they escaped from. Illegal immigration will end someday, right after the economic and social collapse of the US.

Corporations own & run our Gov; they are AGAINST the people of the USA; LOOK at the laws: they are ALL GEARED for the wealthy, & the Corp’s & all AGAINST the people of this nation. Any thing goes: as other news will show you: there is not 1 single agency set up for the PEOPLE of this country; supposedly a “choice” of 2 people, democracy or communism, voting which is beyond compromised; running around the world saying “no Gov should abuse it’s people” THIS one has done more harm to it’s citizens than any other country; the amount of dead stacked up is HIGHER than Hitler’s who we brought top Nazi’s over to learn how THEY did it (propaganda) & illusions like “redoubt” that floored England & the Americans cuz it was all a LIE; never existed; an “illusion” of LIES, DECEPTION, & DECEIT; Reich “underground” describes in detail the “slave labor” & underground areas built by Hitler; which is ALL duplicated today & escalated to the nth degree HERE; from poisoning the people on down to the immigrants, giving them “documentation” saying they are legal when they have NOT followed the path of citizenship; giving them drivers licenses 8 year illegally so they can vote; giving them cars, trucks, money etc to GET THEIR VOTES! the “immigrant"problem is a SYMPTOM of the REAL problem which lives in Wash DC & outward to the Govs & St Congress; Mexico Pres was bought & paid; the “housing” energy, & financial crisis presented to the Public are premeditated long time agenda set up with both parties & Corps AGAINST the people of the USA; and Mexico & Canada people are revolting against it as well as long time Mexican immigrants; THEY want their own countries & constitutions back; see S Africa; same thing there folks; all set up for a prison planet for the wealthy; problem is: do YOU know this? the “answer” that “get involved” to change: is OLD; laws are supposedly there but are for SHOW ONLY; people want; so they are on books with NO INTENTION of enforcing them; you are either on the SIDE and FOR the people of the USA or with the current regime: AGAINST the people, against the land, against the water; there is ALL KINDS of $ folks: at both st & fed levels; it is a LIE just like everything you ever thought about our country was.

While I am no fan of Lou Dobbs sometimes incessant populist ravings, he has struck the nail squarely when it comes to illegal immigration. Now that over a tenth (maybe more) of our population is illegal we have enough of a sample to see the true effects of undocumented labor in the US workforce. Our country has a large blue collar workforce, non-college educated, who were able to make decent wages and benefits despite a lack of formal education. But because of the flood of illegal workers to the US, wages have lowered, benefits disappeared, and working conditions have deteriorated. US based companies realized the benefit of cheap “stupid” laborors and pushed the US into “free trade agreements” with third world nations that they could easily move operations to and operate with regulatory impunity.
Illegal immigration has proven to be very profitable for major corporations and military juntas alike.

As long as it is legal immigration. But you ought to think about this with what just may happen to this country here before too long. Hell, it just may turn out that mexico will look like a paradise if and when this resession turns into a depression.