Cyrena: Regardless of what you say, the system IS broken. The original Constitution is being used for toilet paper by our government. Congress appoints themselves for life and bribes the Public with it’s own money. The electoral college votes in whomever they want for president regardless of the wish of the voters. The president can claim executive privilege to avoid having to give evidence of his misdeeds. Etc. etc. etc.
I have said too many times that the real criminals in America are sitting in the House and Senate. Not to mention their enablers, the American public. The president is not the major cause of our ills. He is enabled by Congress. With no term limits on these people, we are screwed.
Your smug holier-than-thou attitude and the way you call people stupid, ignorant, lazy, uneducated etc. is not helping your cause. Just because someone disagrees with you doesn’t mean that they are wrong. I have never called you names. I may not agree with you, but I wouldn’t dream of calling you stupid!
If you want people to listen to you, stop treating them like dirt.

“Now, let me see if there might be even one single thread here, that hasn’t been highjacked by these ‘types’ of Americans.”

Cyrena:  People have your number. Your name wasn’t mentioned until you made that snarky comment.

Don’t worry cyren(why are u using ur daughter’s name?), you are the one and only queen of truthdig.  No one wants your title.  This is probably some sort of lifeline for you since you seem to have exhorbitant amounts of time to post such extremely long replies to everyone. 

It’s amazing you even know what number each and every person’s post is. Wow. I’m impressed and humbled in the presence of such posting majesty !

1 of 3 to JG #s 169548 & 169672, Mike #169649
Re Jersey Girl#169672

I understand Cyrena wanting a black man for president.  As many women wanted Hillary simply because she was a woman. But as kevin and you have both said, it doesn’t matter !  It’s all a shell game.

Cyrena is amongst the willfully ignorant when it comes to Obama and the democratic party.  She hasn’t awakened to the fact that both parties are one and the same, controlled by the same people.  It has become so obvious over the past ten years or so that the democrats do not have the will to do anything substantive for the people.  Why is that?  Could it be because they are beholden to the same corporate warlords as the republicans? 
**

By jersey girl, #169548
I see cyrena is at it again. Assuming arrogantly that she is the only one entitled to an opinion.
Too dumb to realize everyone on this page is saying the same thing.  That the U.S. government has to stop invading countries in the name of democracy when we all know it’s about expanding their empire.
Funny, I didnt’see one person mention Obama yet, in her obsession with him, she sees him everywhere.
Cyrena, get help darlin’..you’ve gone round the bend.
**
Now mike:
By mike112769, July 16 at 9:59 pm # 169649

• “Cyrena: I had thought that it goes without saying, but apparently I was wrong. We need to replace our current, corrupt system of “government” with the ideals on which this country was originally founded.
**
My my. I’ve never seen my name, (which is actually my Daughter’s name) repeated so many times on one page. (at least not before JG and Jblack ‘graced’ us with their presence. Now we have a pure gang banging attack group on TD, whose sole purpose in posting here, seems to be exactly that. ATTACK! (and they’ve only been doing this for a month)

Anyway mike, in answer to your own reponse, …no. It doesn’t ‘go without saying’ for the average person, though it might with some. I would be the last person to suggest that the current individuals in the regime that has been installed since 2001 are NOT CORRUPT, (and that’s putting it mildly) and that our governing structure has been corrupted as well. That hasn’t only just occurred, but has been in the process for a long time.

However, neither you or the dozen or so armchair ideologues posting on these boards has any idea of what is involved in addressing those issues. Your repeat rhetoric without any viable or reason-based logic regards a solution is at best naïve. In your case, NOT ‘harmful’ per say, because I’m my own sense tells me that you are sincere, but still very much naïve, and lacking any reason to balance what is the emotion and dismay that most Americans are feeling these days

2 of 2 to JG #s 169548 & 169672, Mike #169649

What you and many fail to recognize, (as evidenced by this comment) is that it is not the ‘system’ that is broken, but rather the people who have highjacked it. There are MULTIPLE occasions in history, of open and democratic societies/governing structures being usurped by Fascist, Totalitarian, or other Authoritarian regimes. That doesn’t mean the system or the concept of democracy itself is broken. It means that it has been tossed out and disregarded. It means that the rule of law has been ignored and discarded. Dick Cheney made that very clear when he suggested that ‘we’ needed to become a ‘nation of men’ instead of a ‘nation of laws’.

As you see, he wasn’t kidding. And he’s never been kidding about his firm belief in the doctrine of Unitary Executive. He has maintained this dangerous and pathological mentality for decades. This has NO relevance to the political party structure, such as it is in the US, and it’s a dangerous distraction to mix these concepts.

So, you (along with those who are unable to understand this critical difference between the system itself and the people who have the current power to manipulate it) and I will continue to disagree on the fundamentals. This is NOT about “Obama or the democrats” vs anything else. This the non-sense that Jersey Girl and a handful of others have been sprouting for about 5 weeks now, and that much IS very destructive, being no different than the same ideological NON-reality that we’ve been hearing from the neo-cons for 8 years. So while the sane among us have long since recognized the need to repair this damage, FROM WITHIN, we have irrational ideologues suggesting that the entire thing be destroyed, even though they have yet to suggest even the tiniest sliver of an alternative that would replace it.

Yes, I too watched the movie ‘V for Vendetta’ and included reference to it and several other similar productions in a lengthy paper that I published some months back on Authoritarian States. Needless-to-say, we have certainly become one under this regime, and I’ve recognized that long before the likes of those such as Jersey Girl came to bash-up and otherwise hinder reasoned conversation on this forum.
JG I have specifically avoided addressing you since your empty ‘promise’ to “leave me alone’. Surely we knew that wouldn’t last, so you’re still in attack mode here. Now we have 3 more posts from you, again talking either *to* me, or *about* me, by name, because you just cannot control yourself, and have no discipline in your behavior on these boards. And, it gets worse every time. Your arrogance knows no bounds, because you lack any self control of your own behavior, regardless of how inappropriate it is.

Example:

• “… I understand Cyrena wanting a black man for president.  As many women wanted Hillary simply because she was a woman. But as kevin and you have both said, it doesn’t matter !  It’s all a shell game.

~~
NO JG, you DO NOT UNDERSTAND! THAT is the point. You don’t know me, and you have no idea what I think, or why I think it. You’ve made that abundantly clear, in each and every one of your posts, choosing YOUR OWN interpretation for anything that I’ve put forth here.
As well, your interpretations, and the rhetoric that you use to spew your interpretations are a complete misrepresentation of my own ideology and the way that I apply logic, reason, and the reality that connects it, to any given argument. You’re emotional, and absolutely nothing more. You can’t even make a single post without insulting me. Not one. You excuse it as being ‘sarcastic’ despite the fact that you’ve been called out by countless others on this forum, who have called it what it is. It’s arrogance, and it’s a naïve and ideological arrogance, based on how YOU ‘feel’, not how anybody else ‘feels’ or even thinks, because you don’t KNOW how anyone else thinks or feels.

3 of 3 to JG #s 169548 & 169672, Mike #169649

So, you’ve decided on a dangerously amateurish posture of telling other people how they think or feel. Something you can only get away with via the anonymity of the Internet. You wouldn’t last 2 seconds in a face to face encounter with anyone under these circumstances. So don’t even pretend to know why I have a measure of confidence in Barack Obama’s ability to correct this very bad course that has brought this nation to the edge of destruction, because you are incapable of comprehending those concepts and how they relate to the structure of our particular democracy. And not ALL democracies are the same.

I do NOT see him as a ‘perfect being’ and he has made mistakes, and will make others. However, as I’ve reiterated far more times than I can count at this point, this is NOT about Barack Obama. It is about anyone of the 300 million plus citizens who want to get our country back. It would appear from yours and other comments, that you have become so ‘conditioned’ from living in under a fascist regime, that you think the ‘president’ is the only person responsible for the success or failure of our system of government. By taking that assumption, you release yourself of any responsibility for anything other than to bitch and moan and demand that the entire system be destroyed. His being black has ZERO to do with it, and that is yet more proof of you ignorant and naïve ideology.

That has been the core of your ideological nonsense since you began posting here, just a month ago. Sure seems longer than that, but that’s the way it is when anyone of us is being subjected to such abuse and negativity.

Meantime, I specifically did *NOT* address YOU Jersey Girl, in my posts on this thread. I specifically avoided mentioning or otherwise addressing you. Not only that, I had *not* mentioned Barack Obama’s name on this particular thread, prior to this post, in response to your comment here,

• “…Funny, I didnt’see one person mention Obama yet, in her obsession with him, she sees him everywhere.

Well, funny indeed JG, since *I*DIDN’T mention him EITHER! I see that *you*, and mike, and Kevin all did, but *I* hadn’t. . Again, you aren’t a paid ‘therapist’ for Truthdig and you haven’t been called upon to decide how I feel about Barack Obama or anything else. Besides that, isn’t that an overwhelming case of the pot calling the kettle black? Who exactly is OBSESSED with WHOM here? Have you tattooed my name on your ass? Do you print out my posts and sleep with them under your pillow? Well no, probably not. It would appear that you DON’T SLEEP! I’ve been wondering for weeks what drugs you’re on. Whose gone ‘round the bend here JG? Who ‘sees’ Obama and Cyrena everywhere?

Insanity prevails with you, and you are bent on destruction above all else.

And, there we have it. I’m do in court in less than an hour. Thanks for the warm up exercise.

Excellent comment Dave, I agree with you.  The United States can and should have a positive impact in the world.  We can’t stop all bad things, but we do have the most money and power and can make as big a positive impact to the system as could any country.  We could also start being an example of how to be which works better than trying to muscle everyone to our way of seeing things.  Learning to cooperate and get along despite differences seems to be the primary challenge of humanity at this stage of history.  Our technology has out paced our moral and intellectual development.  We are children with powerful toys, but we are struggling to find the wisdom to deal with the power we as a species possess.

This was a strange turn of events on this page. More of the same old drama I always see.  More of the ideological rigidness that seems to be indicative of those on the far left and the far right.  This is exactly what I was talking about.  The right doesn’t have a monopoly on the penchant for drama, overreaction, and unrealistic expectations.  Those with money and power have been stacking the deck since before we were born, and they will be doing it after we are gone.  Self-interest is a basic fact of humanity, and we will all stack the deck in one way or another to meet it’s needs.  Think about that the next time you leverage whatever power you have to create an advantage for yourself over others, either by word or deed.  We all do it in a wide variety of ways, from lying to a cop about how fast we were going to showing children a movie to keep them quiet.  Its a basic fact that humans will leverage whatever power they have to make things easier for themselves.  Somehow we expect politicians and those holding lots of power to be different.  They never will be, they are all human after all.  You can’t really know how people will react to having power until they have it.  Some will use the power more than others and will be more obviously selfish but they will all be selfish to a degree.  Not one of us wouldn’t be self-serving ourselves if we got into positions of power.  Even stalwart politicians like Kucinich can be self-serving, and would undoubtedly disappoint us in some ways if given the reigns of power (probably more than one would expect).  Getting people to work together is hard.  To be realistic in politics is to realize that no movement is easy, and so modest goals should be the goal.  I have seen enough to know that solutions often only bring more problems,and sometimes those problems are worse than the original one needing the solution.  If the radical left held the power, they would create problems too.  This country has had 8 years of the most self-serving and ideologically driven president in our history.  Those of us most ideologically opposed to that president want a backlash which will never come in enough measure.  If it did, it might cause problems one never expected.  These people are not some evil part of an evil machine, but humans like you or me.  A realistic view doesn’t try to create something that can’t be created.  We are not going to suddenly have a world where the haves don’t leverage their power and take advantage of the have-nots.  Its not possible even if a perfectly selfless person (which doesn’t exist)was the president.  Be realistic about where one is in relation to that goal and where one must go to achieve it.  Work towards small pragmatic solutions that bring that goal closer. Make choices based on the best possible outcome not the most desirable outcome.  Ironically the most desirable outcome is the one you feel will benefit you the most,that sticky self-interest again.  Be willing to work with those who don’t believe as you do (and no one does totally) to bring about the desired goals.  The systems in place are so vast, complex and heavy that they are not going anywhere in a hurry.  Its really amazing that things work as good as they do.  If one really looks at the arc of human history, it is apparent that things have been steadily improving for the common person through out the history of civilization.  That Bush’s imperialistic adventures look so out place in todays world is evidence of that progress.  It has been a bad eight years, but in the sea of human history its rather small potatoes.  Come back to reality, none of the “bad” people are as evil as they are made out and none of the “good” people are as perfect as they are made out.  Both sides of the political spectrum are caught in the drama, hyperbole, and name-calling touchiness which seems more like a meeting in the school yard than the dealings of intelligent adults.

mike:  “I am sure we will here all about how Obama will make everything better! I believe she is buying into scam that we have to have either a republican or democrat in any office. She is complaining about how crooked the game is, while she still insists on playing by their rules!”

I understand Cyrena wanting a black man for president.  As many women wanted Hillary simply because she was a woman. But as kevin and you have both said, it doesn’t matter !  It’s all a shell game.

Cyrena is amongst the willfully ignorant when it comes to Obama and the democratic party.  She hasn’t awakened to the fact that both parties are one and the same, controlled by the same people.  It has become so obvious over the past ten years or so that the democrats do not have the will to do anything substantive for the people.  Why is that?  Could it be because they are beholden to the same corporate warlords as the republicans? 

Many dems make excuses saying they are being blackmailed.  REally? Is that why they voted for the iraq war and will back the iran war as well?  How about the patriot act and it’s re-authorization? Military commissions act anyone?  And the new FISA bill that Obama himself voted for? WHY? Why did he vote for it?  Some would have you believe it’s because the bill was going to go through anyway. What logic eh? OH my god.  Their rationalizations are nothing short of insane.  They will say anything in order to hang on to their “belief” that the democrats are different and will save us from all these atrocities.

Mike, Kevin, I am happy to see there are several people on this board who see the big picture and aren’t swept up in the right/left paradigm.  As a life long democrat, it took me until Kerry’s speedy concession and the do nothing dems of the ‘06 elections to make me see the light. 

Soon none of this will matter because our country is about to be plunged into a depression, the worst in history..at war with Iran and hammered into martial law.

It’s important that “they” keep us bickering amongst ourselves about trivial things such as who will be the next puppet for the nwo while america burns.

As if we ever had a choice. Think about it. For the first time in history a black man AND a woman running for president at the very same time?  Do you not detect a staged event here? Gimme a break. Most here are much smarter than that.  They are just afraid to admit the obvious.

Kevin: “Barak is no new phenomenon all dictatorial regimes have had a Barak up their sleeves, he is the ace in the hole, when things look bad bring em out to dupe and calm the masses..a sell out is a sell out and color don’t mean shit!”

Exactly !! The man behind the man is Zibignew Brezinski. The king of neoliberal imperialists.  Obama came from nowhere too damn fast to not have been propelled forward by the elite powers that be. And how about Madeline people are expendable Albright? Doesn’t matter who or how many die as long as we win ! These are scary people. And just as Bush is controlled by the “shadow government” so is Obama.

The color of his skin matters not.  What matters is the power and mindset of those who have chosen him to “lead”.

Cyrena: I had thought that it goes without saying, but apparently I was wrong. We need to replace our current, corrupt system of “government” with the ideals on which this country was originally founded. I realize that the American people are to blame for the mess we are currently in. I’ve said so too many times to count. Since you obviously read every single article on this site, I had presumed that you knew this. I am at a loss as to where you get the idea that I want America to save the world, though. I would have thought it obvious from my opinions on this site that we need to save ourselves and let others save themselves. The government is trying to be the world’s babysitter, and they are doing quite well at it here at home. I had thought it obvious that I am against this kind of mentality. I apologize for not making my stance clearer. In the future I will try to see if I can string together a cogent paragraph or two with easily understood words for you to disagree with. Thank you also for saying that all of us are too stupid to care!
Jersey Girl: “V” was a good movie. It’s just a shame that it will take that level of abuse by our government before anything is done about it. I am curious to see Cyrena’s response to these comments. I am sure we will here all about how Obama will make everything better! I believe she is buying into scam that we have to have either a republican or democrat in any office. She is complaining about how crooked the game is, while she still insists on playing by their rules!

I see cyrena is at it again. Assuming arrogantly that she is the only one entitled to an opinion.
Too dumb to realize everyone on this page is saying the same thing.  That the U.S. government has to stop invading countries in the name of democracy when we all know it’s about expanding their empire.

Funny, I didnt’see one person mention Obama yet, in her obsession with him, she sees him everywhere.

Cyrena, get help darlin’..you’ve gone round the bend.

By Fadel Abdallah, July 15 at 7:53 pm #
Stupid comment!
Who said that Americans have an obligation to save the world, when we are failing miserably in saving ourselves?!
Americans’ first obligation is to look themselves into their mirrors and see where the real enemies are! Then, they should take steps to reform themselves, rectify their moral shortcomings, educate themselves, and do something serious about their failing political, economic and social values!
~~~~
Ah…but my dearest Fadel,

It’s only STUPID that this gentleman, (a non-American) EVEN HAS TO SAY IT!

Of COURSE we have no obligation or responsibility to save the world. On the other hand, look at all of the comments you read on these boards/threads, and think about every single one of them that expects … EXACTLY THAT! I mean, how many folks here have already decided that Barack Obama, a junior senator from Illinois, is responsible for everything that Israel has perpetrated against the Palestinians since before he was even born?

Then read the most recent comments on this very thread, (the one that I thought might not be highjacked, since it didn’t have anything to do with any specific politicians) and you see that NOBODY is even thinking about looking in any mirrors, (aside from Gmonst)

They OBVIOUSLY aren’t the least bit inclined to educate themselves. (big words and anything longer than a paragraph is just ‘soooo boring’) and if they knew who and where their REAL enemies are, (that look in the mirror) we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. Reform? Not a chance. Read these comments again. For the most part all we see here is blindless revolt, with absolutely NO clue to what to replace it with. It’s not about reform for them, it’s about destruction. 

There is a commitment here to MAINTAIN THE DESTRUCTION, and that’s all you see. Nobody is looking at actually doing any REPAIR work, because Americans are far too busy whining and bitching and creating FAKE enemies, while the real ones run them over with ideological mac trucks, and they don’t even know what the hell hit them.

And then…they whine some more. Look in the mirror? Oh no. They could never do that.

Gmonst said it best, and that’s exactly why we’re in the fix we’re in. Too busy running everybody else’s business, and calling blame, while our own stuff is as messy and out of order as it gets.

Now, let me see if there might be even one single thread here, that hasn’t been highjacked by these ‘types’ of Americans. If not…I’m headed to the beach while it’s still there. The latest oil drilling scam that my dad just wrote to me about could change that by next week.

Oh…Fadel, I almost forgot. Check your email addresses since the two that I have (and the one that cann4ing tried to use) are returning the mail. Just says that you’re away and redirects to another website, but nothing where I can locate you.

Mike:  I loved risk as well !  I grew out of my imperialistic tendancies long ago.  Seems as if you did too :D

I’m all for the revolution.  Where is our *"V" to get it started?

*If you haven’t seen the movie V for Vendetta check it out.  It’s quite inspiring to those of us who “get it” and are fed up with the criminal status quo

Jersey Girl: I agree. I’ve said for years that by the time a politician gets to be eligible for President that he’s already been bought and paid for. Unfortunately, I have yet to find one that stands for what I believe in, which is mainly common sense. (Why is it called common sense when so few people have it?) I only wish that Americans had the guts for another revolution!
By the way, I really enjoyed playing Risk!

Mike:  Mostly americans project onto their candidate what they want to “believe” they stand for. The reality is, by the time the nominees are “chosen”, they are already well part of the corporate machine and don’t usually stray far from where their masters expect them to be.

Of course, they throw out a crumb or two to “we the people” to keep us pacified and from rioting in the streets, but that’s really all either party has to offer us.  Basically, we’re screwed. Until as a people, we rise up in one voice and say we’ve had enough.

These imperialists aren’t about “saving the world”.  They are all about divide and conquer. Blood is spilled, people die and it’s all a lucrative game to them. You may have played this game yourself as a kid. It’s called “risk”. PNAC has their little map of the middle east and it’s covered in bloody red pegs.

Meanwhile, at home, the cupboard is bare and that banker in the black hat, Mr Potter, is at your door ready to take your house away.

A lot of you are confusing the Public with the Government. They are usually two VERY different things. The main thing that the American public is guilty of is laziness. Most of us seem to think that politicians will do what they say they will do after they are elected. We have been lied to so many times by politicians that we seem to expect it. Once a politician gets to Washington, his/her sense of self-importance seems to increase exponentially. All of a sudden they must “protect America”. If the Public wasn’t so content with their bread and circuses, they may get off their lazy asses and fix the mess this country has become. We are the joke of the world. It will take a severe kick in the teeth for the American public to FINALLY do something about the mess this country has become. I only hope we don’t wait until it’s too late.

Stupid comment!

Who said that Americans have an obligation to save the world, when we are failing miserably in saving ourselves?!

Americans’ first obligation is to look themselves into their mirrors and see where the real enemies are! Then, they should take steps to reform themselves, rectify their moral shortcomings, educate themselves, and do something serious about their failing political, economic and social values!

Gmost..

Right on the target…

“..We are wrapped in a blanket of reactionism, hyperbole, and drama.  The need for big, sweeping, sensational action seems to underlie the American mindset.  Essentially we are an egotistical people with an overinflated sense of worth, and a need to validate those big egos with actions that reinforce the illusion of control and importance..”

And, at the end of the day, it’s definitely only an ‘illusion’ control, and far more impotence than importance.

Lord knows I couldn’t have said it better. And yes, foreigners DO see right through it. That’s how the term “Ugly American” came about.

Geeze...it’s so embarrassing.

Take this article as an example of what I was saying.  We spend billions on sensational wars with shock and awe bombings (the names of the missions betray the egotism of them) yet we can’t do the very simple and necessary things that would actually increase our safety like securing radioactive material.

Its strange in how seldom one hears really intelligent discussion on TV or in the media.  It almost always seems to be foreigners.  I must admit people from other countries seem a lot smarter, especially when it comes to foreign policy (go figure).  The US has been blinded by its own bullshit for so long we can no longer see straight.  We are wrapped in a blanket of reactionism, hyperbole, and drama.  The need for big, sweeping, sensational action seems to underlie the American mindset.  Essentially we are an egotistical people with an overinflated sense of worth, and a need to validate those big egos with actions that reinforce the illusion of control and importance.  Foreigners see our arrogance, and egoism clearly, while we do not.  We are the asshole at the party and we haven’t realized it.  We are too busy proving we’re, ‘the best.’ The Bush administration has been the very personification of American ego.

Amen! This is exactly what I’ve been talking about. Wonder if anybody will listen to this guy?

I don’t care who the US takes this advice from, just so they do.