My guess, CY, is that in the minds of the imperialists, people living in third world countries like Afghanistan should feel privileged when they are killed by American bombs as opposed to Taliban bullets.

Jeff29, your earlier post pertained to both Iraq and Afghanistan.  Am I correct that you never served in Iraq?

As to statements made by Afghans to you directly, are you really so naive to think that you are going to hear how one of these people “really” feel in the intimidating presence of the armed invader?

Hell, when I served in Vietnam, I don’t recall a single instance in which one of the locals told me that they didn’t want me there, but I’m damn sure that theirs was a resentment that ran deep!

jeff29

I still don’t understand your position from your posts. Some of them I agree with and you make sense, others I don’t know if you are commenting here to disrupt other’s thoughts and comments. Since you seem so put out by people trying describe things you feel are wrong because you claim to have been there. I would want to know all about what you did there, but since I don’t have any way to verify what you would say, I won’t ask.
I would venture to guess that things are so bad in this country that you knowingly or unknowingly realize it just by the fact that you come to these sites to post comments, making you knowing that there is a severe lack of real information from abc, cbs,cnn, fox, msnbc, nbc and the rest of the msm. And before you contradict me, just go to cnn, msnbc web sites and look at the breaking news headlines and then come back here or go the information clearing house, truthout.org or any number of blog sites that just by these sites existance and the people going to them for information shows a good bit about how our media has let this country down. And this is a most major issue in this country.
If you have the on site experience, be specific about it, this is what people need to know. Have you seen any of the Winter Soldier videos? What do you think of those guys trying to relate their experiences to the people in this country? Have you read any of Chalmers Johnson’s 3 books, ‘Blowback’, ‘Sorrows of the Empire’, and ‘Nemesis’? What do you think of CJ’s information and why would you agree or disagree with it.
I want to know but I have to take what little information I get and compare to others articles, books, interviews, etc. I may be lacking in real time experience but I bet you that I am pretty close in my surmises.

I never claimed to be doing a scientific study.  This all began when I simply mentioned that my experience suggested that people I talked to were fairly happy with our presence, that’s it.  For some reason anytime I make a statement here, there is a requirement for references, citations and scientific studies, yet the rest of you can make any claims you want.

If you must know:  160 U.S. Naval Officers loacated in nearly every province of Afghanistan (personally I spent most of my time in the Paktia province, but also spent time in Paktika, Logar and Kabol); 40 more officers in several provinces of Iraq.  In country from 31 Dec 2005 to 21 Jun 2006 as part of Embedded Training Teams Juliet and Kilo under the command of NAVELSG.  Do you need names? blood types? anything else?  Frankly, you people have no idea what is going on over there; you have no idea what the people want or need, and your “solutions” are based on nothing but political rhetoric. 

I don’t care to argue about how or why we got there (although I can if you need that to), the fact is that we are there, and regardless what the talking heads or anyone else with an agenda says, our leaving will result in a lot more violence and deaths than our staying.  But hey why should you care, you haven’t expended any blood, sweat, or tears trying to help these people, you don’t know them, you haven’t met their kids; if a bunch of them die as a result of an untimely U.S. exit, no big deal—at least you’ll have won your political battle.

By the way, I don’t believe that our current course in the Middle East is the correct on; we could be doing a lot better.  But a full-scale pull-out is the wrong course of action.  Your beloved Barack is even starting to realize this as he has pulled way back from his earlier cut and run stances.

By the way, I still haven’t seen you reference any of these polls.

160 people, you say!  When?  Over what period of time?  Where?  Did you document your study?  Publish your results?  We’re supposed to ignore the significant data obtained by reputable polling organizations like the LeMoyne College/Zogby polls because some guy who calls himself Jeff29 says he and some 60 unnamed people supposedly talked to thousands of Iraqis and Afghans who are just as pleased as punch that their nations are occupied by heavily armed foreign troops?  Oh please!

I’ll bet that even in Vichy France, you could find individuals in that country who were more than happy to be occupied by the Nazis, especially the collaborators who were profiting from it, but I suspect that their numbers, just like those documented in Iraq, would have amounted to a tiny percentage of the whole.

What I find insulting, Jeff29, is that you actually believe that people at Truthdig would swallow your BS.  Yup, Cyrena and Fadel had you pegged.  F.O.S.

cann4ing, did you read the posts?  Cyrena is the one who has claimed “exiled Iraqis” as a source, so thank you for discrediting him.

It is also interesting how you apparently know how many of these people I talked to.  We you there with me?  You must have been there when we got shot at driving the refugee camp, or maybe when we were driving to finish the well at the womens’ clinic.  No?  Oh then you must have been sleeping in the next hut during the rocket attack (perpetuated by Cyrena’s invisible al Qaeda).  No again?

I don’t know what polls you are specifically referring to, but the articles that were posted earlier here cite a Washington Post poll with 1,000 respondents, a protest by al Sadr supporters (wow, they don’t want the U.S. there?  Shocking), and an article about two members of the Iraqi Parliament (now that’s a big sample).  Now I didn’t count all the people I talked to, but it was several hundred.  The 160 other people who were with me had similar experiences; that would put my sample size well over ten thousand.

Your original claim, Jeff29, was that “they” (referring to Afghans and Iraqis) are “happy about us being there.”  You said you had spoken to “quite a few.”  You failed to state whether few are undoubtedly Afghans & Iraqis living in exile here in the U.S., and you did not describe their socio-economic status. 

Now let’s assume that a few was as many as 20 and assume further that every one of them said what you claim.  So what?  Do you really believe that your narrow circle of exiled Iraqis reflects a representative sample so as to justify your extrapolation that “they” (meaning all or most Iraqis, except al Qaeda in Iraq) are happy that we are there?  Are you suggesting that your tiny sample is superior to the polls conducted inside Iraq that consistently show that the vast majority of Iraqis want the U.S. to leave or that the numbers who actually believe we invaded their country to bring them freedom and democracy? 

If not, then what is your point?

Oh yes, everyone bow down at the feet of Cyrena.  The problem with people like you (see I can use generalizations too), is that you start running you mouth (or fingers, as the case may be) without knowing anything about who you are talking to.

What would you like?  Pictures of me sitting in their houses? Pictures of me eating dinner with them? Pictures of me playing soccer with their kids? What?  My conversations didn’t take place “here” with people who have fled their county, they took place “there” with people who daily risk their lives to stay in their county.  (By the way “there” is Afghanistan)

Now granted, they may have just been telling me what they thought I wanted to hear.  Afterall, in my time there, I built (or rebuilt) five schools, refurbished a medical clinic, built eleven wells, delivered many tons of food, clothing, school supplies and medical supplies, and employed several hundred people.  So you can say whatever you want and call me whatever you want, but I spent six months risking my life on a daily basis serving and bringing relief to these people. 

As for your “invisible” al Qaeda; give me a break.  Now you’re just spewing ridiculous rhetoric.  Go over there, walk the streets, then come tell me they don’t exist.

The real funny thing here is that you have no idea what I really think about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.  You label me as a neocon, because while practicing liberal tolerance, you don’t know how do deal with anyone who disagrees with you so you just lump them all together and start calling names.

Finally, referring to an Afghan as an Afghani is actually somewhat offensive to them.  So just keep doing it; it just helps to remind me that you are a “sayer” and not a “doer”.

Yes, Cyrena, “F.O.S.” is the apt label for Jeff29 and the rest of the die hard neocon true believers still taken in by the canard that the Iraqis desire our presence—If there were ever any doubts, all one has to do is look to the Bush regime’s response to al Maliki’s demand that the U.S. provide a time table for withdrawal.

By cyrena, July 9 at 12:55 am #

Thank you for your great post in response to this ignorant full-of-shit who calls himself Jeff29. You did fair to him and thus you saved me from the agony and irritation of responding to him myself.

Funny thing is, I have asked quite a few, and it’s the darndest thing - they were pretty happy about us being there.  Now granted, I didn’t ask any al Qaida operatives about their feelings on the matter, but I’m not too concerned about them.
~~~~

Which ones would these be Jeff? It *IS* a ‘funny thing’ but not in funny ha-ha. It’s just a lie, right Jeff? I mean come on, which Iraqis and AfghanIS have you ‘spoken to’?

You’re full of shit of course, but the fact of the matter is that I HAVE spoken to many Iraqis at least…several who have risked their lives to travel here, (though that was back in 2005, when they actually still could..dangerous as it was) and to escort them around to talk to (or beg really) Americans to PLEASE LEAVE their nation.

And all these stupid Americans could say was, “Oh my…what can we do to help?” Nope, they didn’t get it. These brave women were asking them to use whatever influence they might possibly have, to LEAVE their country.

We haven’t of course, and the destruction has continued, and that is exactly what was planned all along. I suspect that you probably would give much of a rats ass, but there is an excellent film entitled “Iraq in Fragments”. It’s not the least bit ‘political’. Rather it’s a portrait of life in Iraq.

I think you should check it out.

In the end Jeff29, there is simply nothing at all that excuses the destruction of millions of lives of innocent people. That is a crime that is ABSOLUTE, and not forgivable or excusable. It’s really not at all complicated.

As for your al-Qaeda friends…the invisible enemy, I’m not much concerned about them either. They are invisible, never existed in Iraq, and not responsible for the destruction of either Iraq or Afghanistan, to the extent that they DO exist. The existence of al-Qaeda is just as significant as the same pimple on the same gnats ass of the so-called ‘war on terror’. There is NO ‘war on terror’.

There is rather a war OF terror, as promoted and maintained by a small but extraordinarily dangerous cabal of the Dick Bush regime, who has managed to destabilize and destroy a large portion of the globe.

Funny thing is, (and this part IS ‘funny ha-ha’) the most ignorant among don’t even see it for what it is, and your arrogant ignorance has a limit to the amount of protection it can afford you.

Thanks for the links, CY.  I think the bigger problem is that the presence of U.S. military bases in other people’s countries is so pervasive that people like Jeff29 think they are part of the natural order of the universe.  Per the 2005 DoD Base Structures Report, the US was then occupying some 737 overseas military bases, which Chalmers Johnson notes, deploys “196,975 uniformed personnel as well as an equal number of dependents and…civilian officials, and employed an additional 81,425 locally hired foreigners….Its overseas bases…contained 32,327 barracks, hangers, hospitals and other buildings which it owns, and 16,527 more that it leased.”

“These numbers…do not begin to cover all the actual bases we occupy globally.  The 2005 Base Structure Report fails, for instance, to mention any garrisons in Kosovo…even though it is the site of the huge Camp Bondsteel build in 1999 and maintained ever since by…KBR…The report similarly omits bases in Afghanistan, Iraq (106 garrisons as of May 2005), Israel, Kyrgzzstan, Qatar and Uzbvekistan, even though the U.S. military has established colossal base structures in the Persian Gulf and Central Asian areas since 9/11.”

“In some cases, foreign countries themselves have tried to keep their US bases secret, fearing embarrassment if their collusion with American imperialism were revealed In other instances, the Pentagon seems to want to play down the building of facilities aimed at dominating energy sources, or, in a related situation, retaining a network of bases that would keep Iraq under our hegemony regardless of the wishes of the future Iraqi government.”

Are the Iraqis happy to be occupied by a foreign army—the U.S. army?  Ask yourself, Jeff, how you would feel if the U.S. was occupied by a foreign military power whose soldiers were exempt from our laws, whose soldiers could bust down your door in the dead of night and drag you off to a prison where you could be held, tortured, forgotten.

Jeff29—public forums, like the Congressional gallary, are not George Bush’s home.  The are erected on “our” dime and belong to the people of these United States.  What right does George Bush have in kicking someone out of the Congressional gallary (Cindy Sheehan) simply because she was wearing a t-shirt that reminded Americans how may of our brave young men and women (at that point 2,243) had died because the man who was about to deliver the SOTU lied to take us to war and asked how many more must die?

Your posts typify the sense of entitlement of the privileged few—you know the ones Bush describes as his base, “the haves and have mores.”  Bush’s idea of an “ownership society” is that corporations own America.  Everyone else should shut up.

I am not certain about the figures in Afghanistan, but I do know that independent polls have consistently shown that more than 80% of Iraqis want the U.S. to leave, immediately!  Polls also show that the number of Iraqis who actually believe the U.S. invaded to bring democracy and freedom is in the low single digits; that more than 90% believe, quite accurately, that we are there to steal that nation’s resources, and a significant majority of polled Iraqis believe the resistance has a right to attack coalition forces—a belief which happens to coincide with those expressed by our own nation’s founders in the Declaration of Independence and, frankly, should scarcely seem controversial.  As a result of this so-called “war of liberation” (liberation typifying the language of imperialism), more than one million Iraqis have been “liberated” from their obligation to breathe while 4 million more have been displaced, half that number into exile.  Look at any photos emerging from independent and foreign media and you will see the devastation wrought by this war of choice.

Bush’s empty rhetoric next to those photos calls to mind the words of the ancient Roman historian, Tacitus:  “The create desolation and call it peace.”

Samosamo,

Thanks for the headlines. I’ve been inclined to do the same so many times, just to be able to look back at the ridiculousness of it all, and that doesn’t even INCLUDE the stupid ‘entertainment’ industry news, or even the spots. This is why I’ve not bothered with MSM news for so very many years. A FEW of the printed publications still offer up important stuff, (while even that is relative) like the LA Times and even the NYT, so I try to get to those. Otherwise, yeah…we’re screwed.

However, from your list, I did note this one,

~ Karzai orders probe into deadly U.S. strike~

which I’d already honed in on at Truthout, because it’s more important than the headline itself makes it seem, because of the fact that civilians were killed. Now of course since the US kills civilians routinely from the air in Iraq, it would appear that nobody finds this the least appalling. (when we hear of it of course). I mean, it’s all just so far away, and what the hell. Those civilians shouldn’t be there, right? I mean if Iraqis, Afghanis, and Pakistani civilians weren’t there in the first place, then they wouldn’t have to be worried about being picked off by indiscriminate air strikes from the US military. It’s their fault for being in the way.

Sarcasm aside, these are huge war crimes. At the top of the list of the rules or war, comes the obligation to protect civilians, above all else. The fact that nobody has yet to call these crimes what they are, and force them to an international court doesn’t change that they are war crimes. The same thing occurred some months ago in Somalia. As usual, the US claims that it was targeting some ‘terrorists’ that they suspected were hiding out in a particular residence. So, they just bombed it from the air, killing the civilians inside, but no terrorists. (the terrorists supposedly got away.) They did this strike without ever advising the government of Somalia, and without notice to anybody else for that matter. Again, these are specifically designated as war crimes and crimes against humanity, and crimes against the peace in the Geneva Conventions.

So it’s interesting at least, that Karzai is ‘calling for’ a ‘probe’ though that may be little more than posturing. Even if he was genuinely serious about this, I doubt there will be any serious investigation into it by anyone who can actually do anything about it. But, as a point of international law, it just happened to catch my eye.

But, as Philipe Sands has already declared, we live in a lawless world, thanks to a regime who has never believed that such laws apply to them.

Here’s the link for the piece at truthout, for anyone that might be interested.

http://www.truthout.org/article/afghanistan-orders-investigation-into-us-attack

As for the serial killer “the Serpent” being engaged to marry, surely you were interested in knowing that, right?

Interesting how all conversations ultimately lead to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Cyrena:  First, an Afghani is a form of currency, an Afghan is a person who lives in Afghanistan.  Second, you seem to indicate that there are many Afghans and Iraqis who would like to throw us out.  How many of them have you asked?  My guess is none.

Funny thing is, I have asked quite a few, and it’s the darndest thing - they were pretty happy about us being there.  Now granted, I didn’t ask any al Qaida operatives about their feelings on the matter, but I’m not too concerned about them.

Jeff29 says:

This is no different than your home.  If you don’t like what someone is saying, you can throw them out.

I’m sure the Iraqis and the Afghanis and several other people around the globe don’t believe this. Amazing the new converts would either.

And, it’s far more than what we’re ‘saying’ in those nations that we’ve destroyed. But, they can’t throw US out of their homes. Now why IS that I wonder?

How about trickle-down economics, the hallmark idiotic Raygun policy that marked the beginning of the end of the middle class in America.  How about, as a former union man and exec, no less, busting unions and beginning the assault against union workers that goes on to this day?  Need any more?

Wow, what a poignant demonstration of Orwellian newsspeak—the claim “we believe in free speech in America” uttered simultaneously with the protesters being hauled off.

Of course, such hypocrisy usually takes place off camera, as occurred right before the 2006 SOTU when Cindy Sheehan, an invitee of Congress person Lynn Woolsey, was arrested and removed from the Congressional gallery by Capitol police after she removed her jacket, unveiling a T-shirt that bore the number of dead U.S. soldiers in Iraq and asked how many more.

What this video fails to capture is that such treatment is not limited to hecklers.  Consider the 2004 DNC when protesters were shunted off to a remote walled-in “protest pit,” surrounded by barbed wire—far removed from the watchful eye of corporate media cameras or the 2004 RNC in which the NYPD, using orange construction netting, pre-emptively rounded up “potential” protesters in a manner resembling how people fish for tuna.

Free speech—sure, as long as it is where the vast majority of the sheep who get their news from the corporate propaganda networks don’t have to see or hear it.

By troublesum, July 6 at 1:54 pm

No, I just selected and copied the current breaking news and pasted onto my comment. I did not take the time to go to celebrity/entertainment news where I would bet there is mention of that most important link up.
C. Brinkley’s tragic proceedings were probably there but much to my amazement, you will find more info on that at huffington post which seems to have turned into a ‘national inquirer’ type sight.

Samo
Wasn’t there anything about Madonna’s affair with Alex “A-Rod” Rodriguez or Christie Brinkley’s divorce?  Are they slipping or what?

Since this is attention to what the media(responsible in UK) will report but our msm diligently sidesteps because of one of those hidden laws in the ‘supplemental’ law book that citizens aren’t suppose to read, I thought I would give the list of headline stories from cnn from just a minute or 2 ago:

Latest News
U.S. cargo jet crashes in Mexico; pilot killed

Karzai orders probe into deadly U.S. strike

Bush: Olympic boycott would insult Chinese

UAE to cancel all of Iraq’s $7B debt

Ex-hostage Betancourt: ‘I suffered terribly’

Bertha could become Atlantic hurricane

Congress gears up for final summer push

Serial killer ‘the Serpent’ engaged to marry

‘Young Gun’ out-spits dad to take title

Ticker: Bush gets high-flying birthday party

WSB: Man kills unhappy daughter, police say

iReport.com: Garbage piles up in Naples, Italy

Fake priest infiltrates St. Peter’s

Quake panda gives birth to twins

Teen takes steps on formerly twisted feet

Giant G8 ‘heads of state’ sing karaoke
 
Phone rings on air, weatherman flings it
 
CNN Wire: U.N. official shot dead outside…

Now there is some quality information, I especially think the spitting man outspitting his father was very interesting even though I did not read the article, humor I am not inclined to appreciate from one of the major sources of information in this country.
The G8 mummers karaoking is revealing of how the heads of states/nations are basically slapping everyone in the face with their pretentious acts of being ‘real’ leaders for their peoples.
So that is a pretty good dose of how our msm treats us citizens.

The fact that Monticello is now private property explains why Bush was there at all.  He probably chose that venue since he does not appear in places more easily accessable to the public.  He would not have been expecting protestors since his keepers are always careful to shield him from any evidence of the contempt 70% of the public holds him in.  My point about Reagan was that he was never afraid of contact with the public even when he knew that there would be demonstrations against him while Bush like any tinhorn dictator is terrified of the people outside the palace walls.

Reagan was a toxin?  Do explain.

and enough with the ballot boxes—please.

Because our government does not welcome criticism from its citizens except through “proper channels,” which are seldom, if ever, effective, dissidents have to resort to confronting leaders when they are out in public, away from the shelter of their protectors.

A good way to justify harsh treatment of hecklers would be to provide some reasonable forum for people to have their “grievances addressed” that showed good government faith and efficacy.  Washington has a reputation for bad faith. 

Hell, our ballot boxes don’t even work.

So, if you can’t take the heat, stay out of public altogether and out of office for that matter.

Owens-Corning should be as good at insulating as American government is, then the energy crisis would be over.

BTW, Raygun may not have been a nazi but one doesn’t have to be a nazi to be a toxin, and he was that.  Pick your poison.

Thank you Jeff29 for your helpful information. I am particularly struck by the whole Levy Family saga that can be clicked on from the Monticello Foundation site that you mentioned. And you are right, it is private property. But naturalization of a citizen, isn’t that a public function? Your comparison to a wedding, I find troubling (just kidding).

Troublesum, your suggestion is like saying that it would be good to have a couple stand up during the middle of a wedding and start fighting so that the newlyweds would “learn something”.  Afterall, marriage can be hard and there will probably be arguments; so they probably need to see that on their wedding day.

Wrong time and wrong place.

Thebeerdoctor, what is troubling is that you couldn’t even take 20 seconds to do a little research about Monticello before making your comment.  Let me help you.  From the Monticello website:

    “The Thomas Jefferson Foundation (formerly the Thomas Jefferson Memorial Foundation) owns and operates Monticello.  Incorporated in 1923, after the federal government waived its third opportunity to acquire Monticello for the nation, the Foundation purchased the house and land from the Levy family, stewards of the estate for 89 years. As a private, nonprofit organization, the Foundation receives no regular federal or state budget support for its twofold mission of preservation and education.”

This is no different than your home.  If you don’t like what someone is saying, you can throw them out.

Strangely (or not so strangely) the Washington Post link has already been yanked.

Jeff29’s comment is particularly troubling: “Freedom of Speech does not exist on private property”. He is speaking of a site that is designated a National Historic Landmark which is charted by the National Park Service. And even if he claims it belongs to the University of Virginia, that dog don’t hunt either, UV receives federal money. As to coverage of the story, besides the BBC video, I found these links:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/cpntent/article/2008/07/04/AR2008070402260.html

http://www.ibnlive.com/news/bush-heckled-during-speech-called-a-fascist/68364-2.html

Jeff,
It was good for the new citizens to learn something about the US other than what is fed to them by the media and what they may have read in INS literature.
Secondly, unlike every other modern president in history, Bush has chosen to be a recluse and speaks only to pre-selected audiences.  We don’t get many chances to exercise our right to let him know how we feel about him.  The first baseball game of the season in Washington was the last time Bush got to hear a message directly from the people.  Why is he afraid to appear in public?

This was a naturalization ceremony (i.e. people were being sworn in as U.S. citizens).  This is a big event for these people, and frankly it’s pretty classless for people to show up and cause a disruption.  How would you like it if someone showed up at your wedding and started heckling the person performing the ceremony.

Also, Monticello is private property. They can “escort out” whoever they want for whatever reason they want.  Freedom of Speech does not exist on private property.

“... Since I don’t watch TV, I am wondering if this was reported in American mainstream TV, since this video is coming from BBC!..”

Fadel, this was my very first thought as soon as I saw that the video was brought to us via the BBC.

And, since I don’t watch television either, I wouldn’t have known, but I would have been willing to make a small wager that it was NOT publicized anywhere in the US MSM, because stuff like this NEVER IS!

Since then, Leefeller has verified that it wasn’t on MSN, so I’m sure it wasn’t anywhere else either. I learned over 6 years ago, when I was so terribly frustrated about the lack of ANY relevant information available via the MSM, (including the print media, which was always better than the TV stuff anyway) to simply go directly to the foreign media to find out what I needed to know about what was going on in my own country.

How sad is that?

LOL!  This reminds me of the speech Bush gave in the middle east recently where he said “America is about peace” as the US military proceeds to reduce Iraq to rubble. 

We believe in free speech?  Who is this ‘we’ to whom he refers?  Certainly not this government as demonstrated by the brownshirts hauling off the hecklers.  Yet the sheep in the seats clap and smile as the Orwellian nightmare plays out around them.

At least the BBC reporter who posted this didn’t disappear into Room 101.

Fadel Abdallah,
I don’t have tv but I inveriably go to msnbc’s web site for my first look at the news from the msm’s standpoint and I did not see any mention about the heckling which is right on par for a w event and even more so for the way the people who exercised their free speech the smirking chimp commented about but were a little more than rudely extricated from the event. Glad to know little w is still being consistant about his reign as emperor.
Geez, I wish there was some way to move people to go physically remove him and dick and pelosi and reid right now.

So much for freedom of speech! That’s why the secret service dragged away those who wanted to exercise that right. The one who was dressed in Uncle Sam’s uniform was knocked to the ground. Only an Omni scientist God would know what happened to them and what further harassment they would receive!

Since I don’t watch TV, I am wondering if this was reported in American mainstream TV, since this video is coming from BBC!

If it’s true that “we believe in free speech in the USA” why were the protesters dragged away by brown shirts?  I clearly remember seeing Reagan heckled
by protesters at public speeches like this and he never had them dragged away.  In fact he used to try to dialog with them.  Times have changed.  Say what you will about Reagan, he wasn’t a nazi.