Jonas South:

Thanks for the gentle nudge into an alternative view of the issue. The more I think on it the more I realize in this instance you are probably right. After all, the only sane solution to the Israel/Palestine issue is a One State Solution. And I suppose that would mean Jerusalem as the capital, and as such a city open to all.

Now any help you could give to explaining his other statements, which sounded a lot like propoganda someone with a different agenda furnished him ... or wrote into his speech ... would be greatly appreciated.

There is not a nation in the developed world that doesn’t support some sort of violent extremists, including us! There is no proof that Iran’s development of nuclear energy is actually a development of nuclear arms. Likewise there is no substantial evidence that Iran is the greatest threat to Israel, or peace! It is now accepted the statement attributed to “wipe Israel off the map” was a miss-translation. And is the threat Obama speaks of eliminating, Iran or Iran’s president for allegedly denying the Holocaust? Lots of folks do that, it shouldn’t be justification to plunge us into war! I think the greatest threat to peace, in Israel, the Middle East in general, and by extension the entire world is the endless call to war on Iran, courtesy ISRAEL and the present administration!

“ ... There is no greater threat to Israel or peace than Iran,” Obama assured AIPAC. “This audience is made up of both Republicans and Democrats. And the enemies of Israel should have no doubt that regardless of party, Americans stand shoulder to shoulder in support of Israel’s security. ... The Iran regime supports violent extremists and challenges us across the region. It pursues a nuclear capability that could spark a dangerous arms race and ... its president denies the Holocaust and threatens to wipe Israel off the map. ... [M]y goal will be to eliminate this threat.”

As cyrena so succinctly put it on another thread:

“Holy SHIT! I have NO IDEA what got into Obama. I’m serious. This just totally blows me away! And I say that only because this is CLEARLY a 180 degree turn from where he’s been on this issue since he first entered the scene.

Man oh man. This is depressing.

On the other hand. Can we get back to OUR OWN concerns? Iran isn’t threatening US. (Actually, Iran isn’t threatening anybody)”

***

And I really wish we could!

But the endless drumbeat of fear and innuendo, guided by the War Party in Israel and the War Party in the US is a ticking time bomb. There is NO DOUBT, they really DO want to start a WAR with Iran! And the rhetoric from Obama sounded so very much like rhetoric from said troublemakers, it’s a bit unnerving. And if there is a sane and logical and underlying meaning to Obama’s message, one that will help ease jangled nerves ... I’d welcome hearing it.

He said, “Jerusalem must remain the Capitol of Israel, and must be undivided.” Are the two the same, or even inherently irreconciliable realities?

I think not, and Obama may just be right, bacause a divided city will be the flash point for racial conflict without end. The city’s administration, however, may be both a joint, or even international, ‘open-city’ entity, while being mostly independent of the national government of Israel, which operates its offices from it. Odd and unworkable, you say? Go and visit Hong Kong, arguably the most sophisticated, cosmopolitan, affluent, and peaceful city in the world.

While the parallelism is hardly complete, there is enough there for an imaginative, intelligent, resourceful leader in the White House to draw a lesson or two. Change we can believe in, folks.

Purple Girl:

I need to preface this by saying I generally agree with your posts, finding them thoughtful and well said. But in this case I need to take issue. I understand where you are coming from [I think] but we do have OUR asses on the line so we do have a dog in this fight! Because this threatened war that seems so important to the War Party in Israel and our own “never saw a fight he didn’t want someone else to do for him” president badly want to pull us into another unnecessary and dishonest WAR!

***

“I have Faith in Both sides of these conflicts that if the external forces stop trying to intentionally inflict their views and priorities into these situations- those who fear for their lives daily will find a Solution to their disagreements!”

***

I gave up on “faith” years ago. Hope and belief are ok, I suppose, but faith requires a level of acceptance demanding inaction. Sorry, that kind of blind adherence is the biggest single reason society for low these many thousands of years has mucked things up so badly.

The sad fact is, both sides of these conflicts will not find a solution to their disagreements, because both sides prefer the faith approach, so both sides abdicate their responsibility as individuals to DO something, or even SAY something and allow their respective leaders to DO it for them, and SAY it for them, and we all know where THAT has gotten them.

Personally I would love it if external forces could stop trying to intentionally inflict their views. But since we’re talking about a potential WAR here, that could pull every friggen external force in the world into fighting, I think we better forget that faith thing and DO something ourselves! If in fact we can figure out WHAT and HOW! Because the alternative is to frightening to contemplate. A handful of power hungry war fighter wannabbees who have access to nuclear weapons ... and I’m NOT talking about Iran ... cause THEY DON’T HAVE ANY!

So yeh, I see it not only as my right to question the unthinkable, but as my obligation!

I’m old, but my posterity isn’t and I’d like to believe that their future can be better than another dozen decades of living in fear because some nut in the Middle East, or here, or anywhere thinks the people they claim to care about are the only people who have a right to claim control of the earth because God is on their side. Well I happen to believe if there is a god and that god is as all seeing and all knowing and all embracing and all forgiving and inclined to punish evil, as so many folks who claim to talk with god, claim god is ... then that god must be about ready to throw in the towel and walk away from the selfishness and greed and WAR that goes on in Gods name!

I cant call on God to put an end to this madness, and wouldn’t presume to give God orders if I could. Just like I don’t go around saying God bless you and God bless America, because I think that order should be prefaced with at the very least a please.

We have become so arrogant. We allow people who almost hourly take the name of God in vain and never give it a second thought, and never give a second thought to the potential impact their words might have, to do our moral thinking for us. And I believe Obama’s careless remarks, particularly regarding Jerusalem, especially in light of the above mentioned propensity for everyone to line up on sides fighting those “God said” wars was a miscalculation at best, and a potential indication of abdicating his thought process to someone with a hidden agenda at worst.

But, and this is an important but ... I tend to, no probably actually WANT to believe he didn’t mean it, or didn’t understand the impact of his words, or [gag] did it for political expediency and we don’t need that. We really don’t. Obama can win and in fact MUST win on his own merits. And if he hasn’t yet realized the consequence of his words, then someone needs to help him understand.

he clearly turned to the Isreali Gov’t to cease breaking the agreement regarding the settlements in the West Bank.
Sorry ‘Smoke & Mirrors’ I actually Watched the Speech.
He also strongly recommended they begin making concesssions if Peace is their Real Goal. And Access to the Cities for pilgrimmages.
Truthdig is beginning to Reek of propaganda , Dressed Up (camoflagued) in baseless innuendo.
Granted it was a “proIsreal’ Speech- but what do you expect, considering the audience and their concerns, plus the corp owned Media and the neo Cons attempt to paint him as if he were Bin Laden Clean Shaven.
F*ck you ‘Truthdig’ both sides have to giv esome shit Up! hell the people of these countries are far more interested in Compromise then any External ‘Ra Ra’s’ - probably because it is their asses who are in danger Evey Day!The American jewish and Muslims need to shut up and get the F*ck out of the way,they are Kiling their own people with THEIR sense of Priorities- safely tucked away here in the States!
tehy are doing as much for their people as the ‘radicals’ from the Other side.
When your ass is placed on the line everyday- then you will actually have a dog in this fight!
Same is true for the Talks beween Iraqis & Iranians.
Look down Your ‘special Interests are Showing along with the Blood from their Struggle.
I have Faith in Both sides of these conflicts that if the external forces stop trying to intentionally inflict their views and priorities into these situations- those who fear for their lives daily will find a Solution to their disagreements!

I guess this is the part where the progressive left begins to realize that its anti-Israel views are those of a rather small minority and will not be adopted by their used-to-be pet candidate.

Obama didn’t “screw up” - he gave a prepared speech and said what he intended to say.  Without the rose colored glasses, he looks very much like the inexperienced, rather ineffective senator his record shows him to be.

the only ones who need a reality check are all these people who believe Obama is any thing different than your typical sold out pro-corporate candidate.

By Howard, June 9 at 9:18 am #

“It’s been capital of the Israeli pschy for thousands of years and in its historical writings and yearning.s”

WELL, I GUESS THAT SETTLES IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NOW LET’S CONSIDER THE THIRD REICH “PSCHY”, AND THE EVANGELICAL CHRISTIAN “PSCHY”, AND THE OTTOMAN EMPIRE’S “PSCHY”, AND THE COMMUNIST “PSCHY”, AND THE MUSLIM “PSCHY”, AND...........................

That was a good commentary on the situation, and echo’s my personal feelings on the situation.  Obama really screwed up on this, I was really shocked when I read the Jerusalem comments.  I must say it seemed really out of character for Obama, and was puzzling to me. I hope that he will learn from this mistake and be better in the future.  He seems to have a good capacity for admitting mistakes and working to change them, that is part of what I like about him.  Whatever people do, they shouldn’t use this as an excuse to vote for McCain.  His views on the situation aren’t any better, and we know how much he likes war.

3 loud cheers for Obama; of course Jerusalem should remain in Israeli control.  They (and christians) were banned from there before the ‘67 war.

It’s been capital of the Israeli pschy for thousands of years and in its historical writings and yearning.s

Arabs have Mecca as their capital and most holy site. Jerusalem means nothing in a list of their holy sites. Certainly not at the top of their list, like for Israelis.

Make it 4 CHEERS FOR OBAMA !

hippy pam:

So you’re disappointed that Hillary, the lady who sits in the lap of AIPAC, isn’t running for president. So you’re not going to vote for Obama because he’s stupidly fallen for the trap of pandering to AIPAC.

OK. That makes sense.

Thanks for sharing with us.

I have always been a democrat BUT....I’m sorry-Nobama
is out of touch.He does NOT HAVE the experience to DO THIS JOB...McBush IS NOT GOOD BUT...since I can’t have CLINTON....I’m gonna go for McCain...[at least he has served in the military and knows about getting shot at.]

I’m actually more worried about the goof-up with him claiming Jerusalem for the Israeli captitol.

That really was NEVER in any of the plans (even though NONE of the plans have ever been realized). I thought that Jerusalem was supposed to remain an International “Free Zone” owned by none, and accessible to all? So, how old it that plan? Am I outdated as well?

My other ‘problem’ with this, is that Obama seems assume that a 2-state solution will work. (And admittedly, there are MANY Palestinians still hoping on this as well.) Realistically though, I just don’t see how it could happen. Israel has literally a PERMANENT infrastructure in the West Bank, and without forcing tons and tons of ‘relocation’ it just doesn’t seem possible.

As for the ‘security’ of Israel’s borders, that’s just fine. Maybe Israel will ‘comprehend’ that in order for them to be ‘secure’ in their DEFINED boarders, they’ll finally have to COMMIT to some defined boarders, which they’ve not done since 1967. The WORLD knows they’ve exceeded their original boardes by what the UN mandate was when they were ‘gifted’ with that land, in 1948.

And, Obama should know that much as well, even if no other president has ever acknowledged it.

I don’t so much care about the 30billion over a decade, since that’s what the US has been giving them for years now..$3billion a year. And no, I don’t think we should be giving them $3billion a year, since I don’t have a clue why we’re giving it to them. Their own population doesn’t see any of it. But, that IS what they’ve been getting from us for decades, so at least he didn’t promise more. 

It’s still less than George has given Pakistan since 9/11. They’ve got over $22billion so far, and that’s probably not the full extent of it.

I am an Obama supporter but boy did he disappoint me by pandering to AIPAC like all other candidates. For G’ds sake this election is about America’s future, our troops in Iraq, people losing their homes due to forclosures and he wants to give Israel an additional 30 billion dollars. Pay attention to America Obama!