Lili,

Just as a ‘short answer’ to your question on Barak’s “identity” as a ‘black man’. That’s just the ‘way it’s been’ for over 200 years.

If you have the time to spend, and are actually interested, a study in Race and Law, will help put a proper perspective on it. Simply put however, from the very initiation or this country, any persons with as much as 1/16th of ‘African ancestory’ were legally established as black. And, our Constitution as well as over 200 years of Constitutional case law continues to reaffirm this. It has never ‘mattered’ what the person’s mother or father or grandparents might be. If there was an ounce of ‘black’ anywhere in the lineage, that’s how it’s worked out.

That is NOT to say that many people of mixed race ancestry haven’t been able to ‘ditch’ that identity at some point in time, specifically those who in fact have the overall genetic APPEARANCE of Caucasian. For many, it was a way of survival. There term used in one part of the country where these mixed ethnicities are prevalent, (Louisiana and nearby regions) is ‘passé le blanc’ which means, ‘passing (for) white..

Needless to say, Barack Obama CANNOT do that, (nor would he want to) and we would have hoped that there would be no need (after the mid 20th Century) for anyone of any measure of African ancestry to HAVE to employ such methods of perfidy. In short, why should any human being of any color or racial ethnicity, have to somehow ‘rely upon’ a presumably more ‘superior’ mix of genes to elevate their own status in the eyes of the world? Because, that’s really what it boils down to.

Still, the mentality that ‘created’ race differences to begin with, and then “assigned’ them these stereotypes and/or ‘order’, in the ladder of human perfection, continues to prevail, as you can probably determine from the posts of people like Lee and others.

To some it up, as long as Obama LOOKS like a black man, (and he does) the racists among us are never going to consider anything else, and they will continue to make excuses that it is anything BUT their inherent racism, that motivates it.

An example of how insidious this mentality is, is the way people like Obama’s mother are even treated by the white society. I lived in Texas for many years, and was made physically ill by the treatment of any WHITE women, (co-workers, organization associates, etc) who were married to men of color, or had children of men of color. They were as demonized by the white racist yahoos as any full black person has ever known.

So, this racist mentality has it’s roots in the law as well as the psyche that goes back to the beginnings. That’s the best half-answer I can provide, since the larger story means an in depth study of the history.

I should add that this concept that Obama is not ‘black enough’ for Wright is a distraction and an obfusication. If we were going to be ‘literal’ about it, Obama is obviously darker in skin color than it Jeremiah Wright, though they BOTH are black men by the legal standards long ago set by those who set up these ‘racial’ categories to begin with.

So, I think that it isn’t strange that the media refers to him as such, with little reference to the fact that his mother and his maternal grandparents are white.

RE: Lili

In response to your question ...
Why does the media refer to Obama as a black man,
even though he’s half white?

Well, Obama joined and has spent the last 20 plus
years in a black liberation church.
He married a black woman.
He pledged allegiance to the ‘black value system’ for
the past 20 years ... which by the way has dramatically
softened it’s precepts on it’s website, just a couple of
months ago, so it wouldn’t appear so extreme in it’s
black orientation.
Obama depended on, and used the black community
in Chicago for 20 years to springboard his political career.
And ... 90% of the blacks in America are voting for him,
because he is black.

The Jeremiah Wright case is certainly unusual and has many factors and elements involved.

Obama and the rest of us should take a look at all the angles.

Food for thought in the article ...

“Obama not ‘black’ enough for Jeremiah Wright?”

AmericanChronicle.com
May 4, 2008

http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/60699

cyrena writes:  “....Obama has actually been helped by it.”

Obama has been hurt by Rev. Wright and several polls have shown this.

TIME-CNN

“Voters have been running from Barack Obama since the Jeremiah Wright scandal erupted. A Zogby poll conducted this week in Indiana ahead of its key primary next Tuesday found that 21% of likely Democratic primary voters said they were less likely to vote for Obama as a result of his former pastor’s statements.”

“A Rasmussen poll out Friday tries to peel back some of these issues, and the answers are not particularly heartening for Obama. In a survey of 800 likely voters, Rasmussen finds that 58% think Obama has denounced Wright because it’s politically convenient, while 30% say he did so because he was outraged (13% say they’re not sure). Only 33% say they think Obama was surprised by Wright’s views, while 52% say they think he was not.”

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,17373 16,00.html

SURVEY USA ELECTION POLL

In North Carolina Clinton Closes To Within 5 of Obama

In a Democratic Primary in North Carolina today, 04/29/08, one week till votes are counted, the 10-point lead that Barack Obama has had for two months is halved, to now 5 points, Obama 49%, Clinton 44%, according to SurveyUSA’s 7th tracking poll, conducted exclusively for WTVD-TV Raleigh. In SurveyUSA last four polls, over the past two months, Obama has led by 10, 8, 10, and 9 points.

http://www.surveyusa.com/client/PollReport.aspx?g=d4d1 bc7e-32d4-438e-8143-75c8b25b3435

GALLUP

Several polls have been released in the last few days that show some interesting movement away from Barack Obama. It seems that the reemergence of Rev. Wright and possibly Obama’s response to Rev. Wright may be turning away some voters.

http://www.reliablepolitics.com/2008/05/polls-show-wri ght-fallout.html

Beerdoctor..

I’m about to look at this. I expect it to be enlightening. The Obama-Wright thing has really accomplished what the HRC gang intended..to take a whole bunch of attention off of HER as well as her ‘running mate’ John McSame.

I’m at the point where it just seems easier to refer to BOTH of the republicans as Mr. and Mrs. McSame.
The irony of hearing over and over again how we just need a democrat in office, and at the same time hearing people continue to believe that Hillary Rodham actually IS a democrat, is a very painful experience.

Anyway, you’re so correct that the Obama-Wright thing has been done to death. In fact, they overplayed their hand on that one, since Obama has actually been helped by it.

Meantime, we all stand to be harmed unless the “The truth about Hillary” can be revealed before we make another mistake like Dick Bush.

If John McSame is the same as Dick Bush, and Hillary McSame is the same as John McSame, we’re in the deepest of shit if any of these McSames steal the keys to the country.

(and yeah..they’re ALL the same).

If Louis Farrakhan is someone the black community listens to, then I guess “Yacub’s History”. the genetic experiment that claims a mad genetic scientist created white devils 6000 years ago, must be a fact.

I will support the Democratic nominee this November. Obama would be better than McCain. But until then I am working hard to help nominate Hillary.

I hope your son comes home from Iraq safe and sound. I appreciate his service. How many tours has he had? I will pray for him and for his safe return. I had a friend die in Vietnam. 18 years old. Found his name on the wall, traced it with my fingers. Cried. And I haven’t been back since despite the numerous times I have been in D.C. since.

“...they won’t be able to do that unless Congress allows it.” I would think they would allow at least some. I don’t see how they could not. Plus many in the military know our armed forces are seriously and dangerously stretched to thin. We could not respond throughly to a true crisis any where in the world with our over stretched army. It will take years to get them back up to speed and build back up. But you know that too. Despite their inability to defund the war now, I think many in Congress would vote to do something different and start bringing the troops home.

“....don’t you?” RE: Wright. No. Not really. The Republican spin machine is too good at what they do. I wish it would go away. I hope. But I seriously doubt it. Republicans will exploit the issue shamelessly. Wright is just one of those hot button issues.

But it will be what it will be. We don’t know how it will turn out. As you said, we just have to pay attention, get educated on the issues, and participate. 

Its simple, look it up.

http://www.dickipedia.org/dick.php?title=Hillary_Clinton

Lili-Marlene Rose, I am responding to your latest post beginning with, “So your problem…” But because TD has a very poor system for keeping track of replies to various posts, I am just starting a new Post. Also, because of TD small word limit I will have to respond to your post with two of my own. Your comments and/or questions are *** and in quotation marks and then my response follows.

***“So your problem is with the context, not the content…”

My problem is that now it is ‘out there’ it would take a miracle for Obama to win in November given what we know the media has and will continue to do with this. I don’t want McCain. I want a winner. And although Clinton has her own problems and issues the media will play with, I think she is more scrappy and more of a fighter and has more of a chance to beat McCain. That is my only goal this election cycle. WIN. WIN. WIN.

Just FYI, Clinton was not my first choice. I supported Edwards. It was only when it got down to two candidates I chose Clinton over Obama, for the reasons stated above.

I don’t care that much about the content at all. In some ways I agree with some of the things he says. But I am not running for President in these polarizing times.

***“I’m sorry your relationship with your brother is so strained.”

It is not that bad. We just know not to talk politics. He knows my boundaries now and respects them. Plus we live thousands of miles apart.

***“So if you were running for president, and your brother’s offensive remarks were made public, you would be willing to be his keeper and accept responsibility for him?”

No. But what I would have done is personally ‘expose’ him up front and let the press and my opponents know he was out there and that we had divergent views. I may be wrong, but I think of Obama had been forthright and up front BEFORE Wright became an issue it would have been less of a damaging story. Maybe I am being naive.

***“Aside from this link to Rev. Wright, what is your beef with Obama?”

I don’t have a ‘beef’ with Obama. I don’t support him for President for several reasons. One is experience. While he does offer vision for the future, Clinton has a clearer idea of the hard realities on the ground right now and has been clearer policy positions on how to deal with them.  Hope and change is not specific enough for me. Hillary’s supports universal heath care while Obama’s allows some to opt out. Hillary will start bringing troops home earlier rather than later. I strongly disagree with Obama and his willingness to allow mercenaries (i.e. Blackwater) to be such a presence in our military. Clinton seems to understand that is a very bad idea.

Continued next post……….

PART 2

I don’t normally go into why I support Clinton here on TD as I know those who support Obama will have different views. And supporters of either candidate will think and believe their candidate is better on the issues. So it is a moot point by and large. I don’t want to get into those kinds of discussions. So what I try to do here is just point out factual errors and let the chips fall where they may PLUS deal with delectability issues. As I said, Clinton was not my first choice. But by the time my primary came up we were down to two Democratic candidates.  I could have gone either way. BUT also by that time we knew McCain was the Republican nominee. Now remember, my only goal this election cycle is the get a D back in the White House. I decided that up against a bona fide war hero and a perceived Republican moderate, a media darling, someone who because of his stance on immigration could very easily get the Latino vote (and check the voting patterns in the D primaries – Obama does not get their votes; Clinton on the other hand does get those votes) that the Democrats needed a really experienced candidate who could appeal to Reagan democrats, Latinos, and the original Democratic base. Hillary despite her strong negatives can pull those votes and therefore has a better chance to beat McCain. Others disagree. But that was my thinking. Plus by the time of my primary (Super Tuesday) I knew about Wright, Ayres, Rezko.  They were not yet media names. But having seen the right wing smear machine use less and get more in so many elections I knew that these issues would be brought up at some time and I also knew what would happen with them and that Obama would be branded in a negative way. It was just a matter of time. Unfair? Yes. Wrong? Yes.  But unfortunately these are the times we live in.

***“Despite our differences, I appreciate your input because I can always learn from opposing views, and I’m just glad you take the time to seriously look at the candidates and the issues. Wish more people would do the same. “

I can tell that, Lili-Marlene Rose, which is why I opened up more to you than anyone on this blog. You seem like a very nice person. And I agree with all you said above.

***“Do read the books I mentioned. They will shock and enlighten you…..”

I have read some Scheuer, but he has been discredited by some in the intelligence community. I liked “No End in Sight.” But books are just like our personal views. We all cite those that match our beliefs. So I will end with a book of my own. Read “Imperial Life in the Emerald City.” It is excellent. You might like it.

He probably is, pretty much, the same guy. Other than being a smart ass I agree with a lot of his views on U.S. Policy. I’m not a christian, nor do I have a religious affiliation. It’s sad that you or anyone else can’t get elected on his ideas and plans concerning the issues of the day. If there were someone I agreed with and liked I would vote for them. As it stands I will vote for you so that I can vote against Hillary.

The Obama-Wright thing has been done to death. So you folks at truth dig might look into Peter Paul versus Hillary Clinton:
http://filmgordon.wordpress.com/2008/02/20/hillary-unc ensored-the-case-of-paul-vs-clinton/

cyrena writes:  “THAT TIME, he (Tev. Wright) was their [sic] ALONE, and at THEIR (the Clinton’s) REQUEST!! “

As is often the case with you cyrena, you have taken innuendo and tried to spin it as fact.

According to PoliticalFact.com “the connection between Wright and Clinton is being grossly overstated.”

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/a pr/25/CLINTONWRIGHT/

Also from the PoliticalFact.com article:  “It also is true that following the prayer breakfast that day, President Clinton did begin a long-term program of spiritual counseling with a small group of ministers. Wright was not among them.”

The PolitiFacr goes on to say there was a small cadre of ministers that did provide spiritual guidnace to Bill Clinton. Wright was NOY among them.  “Those three ministers ended up being [Tony]Campolo, the Rev. Gordon MacDonald, then senior pastor of Grace Chapel in Lexington, Mass., and the Rev. J. Philip Wogaman, pastor of Foundry United Methodist Church, which the Clintons regularly attended in Washington, D.C.”

Cyrena you are proliferating the inaccurate statement of Michael Moore in his Obama endorsement letter.

Also from PolitiFact.com, Obama, less directly, tried to insinuate the same thing “…in an interview with Philadelphia radio talk show host Michael Smerconish on March 24, 2008. On that show Obama said, “But understand this, something else that I think has not gotten reported on enough, is despite these very offensive views, this guy has built one of the finest churches in Chicago. It’s not some crackpot church. I mean, witness the fact that Bill Clinton invited him to the White House when he was having his personal crises.” A few days earlier, the Obama campaign released a photo of Rev. Wright shaking hands with Bill Clinton at the prayer breakfast.”

If you have proof that counters this please cite your source.

Lili-Marlene Rose, very well said. Your point about the PA Governor’s support of Farrakhan reveals yet another misinformed politician.
http://thebeerdoctor.newscloud.com/

I’m curious Marshall, about how you KNOW what Jeremiah Wright, ‘really does believe”. Have you spoken to him personally at length? Maybe you’ve attended several of his sermons?

On this…

• “He really does believe the CIA is attempting genocide on the black community by inventing HIV.”

Did he mention that it was the CIA specifically that he was accusing of this? I don’t think I heard him say that. Seems like he just said, “the government’. So, might this be a Freudian slip on YOUR part, having knowledge of all the OTHER atrocities that the CIA has committed over the decades, and the foreign governments that have been destabilized by covert actions on the part of the CIA…keeping in mind of course, that the CIA answers only to the President. (and lets not forget that Papa Bush was once director of that very same agency).

Moving along,

• “He really does believe the Marines are terrorists.  He really does believe we deserved 9/11 and really does equate the U.S. with A.Q.

Did this too come up in your personal conversations with him? Since Jeremiah Wright was a Marine himself, it seems hard for me to believe what YOU claim HE ‘really believes” about the Marines being ‘terrorists’ though I have to admit I’ve never met a Marine that didn’t have a disagreeable temperament after becoming a Marine. (I haven’t found the same to be the case with soldiers or sailors, though that seems to have changed drastically in this most recent conflict). So, I’m inclined to think you’re just up to your same old hateful hyperbole and propaganda.

It is also an intentional mis-framing and innuendo on your part to claim that he said we ‘deserved’ 9/11, because it’s NOT what he said. He explained it as the obvious response or reaction that was bound to happen, and others predicted the same, EVEN BEFORE IT DID happen. I’ve said that before, and you know it as well as anyone else. We were NOT attacked on 9/11 without warning. There was PLENTY of it.

As for Wright, you or anyone else equating us with AQ, that’s even more hyperbole from you, because it’s stupid. The US is a sovereign nation state. al-Qaeda is NOT, and we know from your own posts that you know nothing about that group.

That’s not to say that the thugs that overthrew our democratic government by way of a Judicial Coup in 2000 aren’t terrorists, but the rest of the world isn’t accusing the citizens of the US of being terrorists. Only the current ‘leadership’. And they are terrorizing in the posture of ‘the state’ which doesn’t even begin to equate with a scattered bunch of religious extremists. Intelligent and informed people know the difference.

So we can disregard and will, your version of what Jeremiah Wright believes, just as we’ve long ago disregarded your own radical right wing beliefs and imperialistic ideology that agrees whole heartedly that the thugs can steal from and destroy the rest of the globe, and do it in the name of Americans, and use our blood and treasure for that purpose.

Never mind all of those millions of innocent dead civilians. They should have just stayed out of our way when we went over there to steal their oil, right Marshall?

Bert responds to Lil-Marlene Rose

“ Wright was what, 1 of 600 religious leaders that came to that prayer meeting? There was no lasting or 20 year close personal or spiritual relationship between Clinton and Wright and he made no statements in support of him or his views.”

Very true about that bert. But you FORGOT to mention ONE of the OTHER TIMES when the Clintons REQUESTED PRIVATE SPIRITUAL COUNSELING FROM JEREMIAH WRIGHT FOR THEIR MARRIAGE PROBLEMS!!

THAT TIME, he was their ALONE, and at THEIR REQUEST!!

You’re a hypocrite bert.

Bravo Lil-Marlene Rose. This is an excellent essay, and much appreciated. I hope you’ll be glad to know that most of us maintain the same system of beliefs and PRIORITIES as you convey here.

Just a quick addition to your excellent reading recommendations...another book by Michael Scheuler is Hubris, (not to be confused with the same titled book by Isikoff and Corn of the same title...also excellent).

I’ve only just had time to listen to this speech from Barack Obama in its entirety, because I first wanted to view the remarks that Rev. Wright made at the National Press Club. (apparently that’s where he really went a bit far, at least with the AIDS thing.) Prior to that, I didn’t believe that he was so far off the mark in speaking truth to power, or addressing the issue of 9/11 in the same manner that many other academics and politicians had previously done, since he clearly was NOT the first person to make the same assessments. (Blowback is another excellent example of the same theory, written even BEFORE the events of 9/11)

However, (and this came up during a lecture/conference that I attended earlier today) I’m finding it very curious that Rev. Wright has recently taken on the blitz of the airways and the appearance at the Press Club, and at the Detroit NAACP chapter meeting. Like Obama, I don’t really know or understand the purpose behind it, or the timing. At any rate, now that I HAVE viewed that appearance and those remarks, as well as the speech delivered here by Barack Obama, I’m even more convinced of Senator Obama’s integrity and the sincerity of his efforts.

So the end result of this has in fact provided even more of a boost to Obama’s campaign and efforts. It IS a thing to be saddened by, but at the same time, it proves what he’s made of, and at the end of the day, we know that’s what the majority of Americans will choose for themselves and our collective efforts. For those of us who DO pay attention, we know only too well how interconnected we are, and that any rising tide is supposed to lift all boats. That we have been moving in the opposite direction of that for 20 years does NOT mean that we are doomed to decline until the whole is destroyed. So I’m equally convinced that Barack Obama at the helm of our collective efforts is the best and most available person to accomplish that reversal that has created the decline.

Thanks again for the essay. You speak to the greater good.

I agree with you about Wright’s grandstanding arrogance.  But there’s a difference between the points you said he could have made, and the ones he actually made.  And the difference isn’t one of tactfulness - it’s one of content.

He really does believe the CIA is attempting genocide on the black community by inventing HIV.  He really does believe the Marines are terrorists.  He really does believe we deserved 9/11 and really does equate the U.S. with A.Q..

There’s no reasonable way to make these arguments, and they differ fundamentally from your far less militant versions.  Wright may be an egomaniac, but I think he was being mostly honest with his beliefs (if anything, he’s even more radical than he stated) and has proven himself an unabashed conspiracy wing-nut.

What I can’t imagine is that Obama hasn’t known this all along.

Lili-Marlene Rose writes:  “I blame the media, and whoever gave those sound bites to them, for making a mountain out of a molehill.”

No one gave these tapes to the media. They were FOR SALE on Trinity Church’s web site to make a profit. All FOX and ABC did was buy them and then report on their content. If Rev. Wright put them out there for sale to the public, that is his problem if some folks see them and don’t agree with what is on them.

What ticks me off about all of this is that most of the points Wright made could have been made reasonably and educationally if he wasn’t such a damned grandstanding egomaniac.

When he says American is just as bad as Al Qaeda, what he COULD have said was that our attacking a country that posed no threat to us has strengthened terrorism in the area and given America-Haters a reason to hate us more. That’s a common point that a majority of Americans agree on and that the war in Iraq has made us LESS SECURE as a nation.

But noooooo, that was too REASONABLE, too SENSIBLE, too quiet and logical.  That would not have allowed Wright to rant and rave and go off on a melodramatic tear. He could have made the simple point that the war in Iraq was unjust and has made us less secure as a nation. That would have put the focus on the actual information. But Wright wanted the focus all on him.

He just doesn’t care about education, doesn’t care about his audience, he doesn’t care about anything but himself. And he’s flushed great opportunities to educate and enlighten straight down the crapper as a result.

And despite the problems that America has, most Americans still love America and are proud of what it stands for. And they do not like hearing their country damned by anyone, no matter how valid the point may be.

Lili-Marlene Rose also writes:  “That’s our right in this country, [to hold different views] yet I do not hold myself responsible for those who differ from me.”

I agree. My brother has some very hateful attitudes about some people, as do his friends. I am not responsible for them. However, I choose not to be around him, not to socialize with him except at necessary family functions. U can’t choose my family, but I can choose my friends.  And I have in very strong language called out my brother and his friends on these views. Obama on the other hand chose not to do that with Rev. Wright. And that is his choice.

But conversely, it is the right of Americans to decide they do not want to associate with or vote for someone who continued a relationship with someone who expresses sentiments they find offensive.

What Wright said at the National Press Club was no different than what he has said in the pulpit many times and has been his philosophy for years. Obama criticized and repudiated the National Press Club words. But these were the very same ideas and words Wright had used for years and are on those video snippets. Whether or not Obama heard those snippets played on TV or not, it stretches credulity to think Obama did not know the man’s basic philosophy. Yet for years he did not criticize or repudiate these words. Why now? Plain and simple. Wright is causing his poll numbers to fall. Obama is just a politician after all. No change or hope left.

Obviously, after 20 years of being tied at the hip with Wright, and distancing himself only after it became a political necessity, it appears to be extremely disingenuous. While I admire Obama’s ‘controlled’ manner, and everybody claims that Obama finally got ‘stern’ with Wright ... Obama doesn’t really seem to express much passion, or emotion in his rebuke. If someone threw me to the wolves, like Wright did to Obama, old friend or not, I’d be so pissed off, and I would be ANGRY ... and everyone would know it. Quite frankly, I still am not sure what Obama really thinks, or believes in. I think he will simply do, or say whatever it takes to get himself elected.

Lili-Marlene Rose writes:  “Why isn’t all of that being brought up in the media? “

Old news. Don’t you realize the MSM monster needs new stuff all the time. And the Wright thing is a gift that just keeps giving and giving.

Reply to Lili-Marlene Rose

“Does anybody know that when President Clinton brought together pastors from all over the country when he made his confession about Monica Lewinsky that Rev. Wright was one of them?”

Wright was what, 1 of 600 religious leaders that came to that prayer meeting? There was no lasting or 20 year close personal or spiritual relationship between Clinton and Wright and he made no statements in support of him or his views.

“Bill Clinton had eleven chances in ONE year to take bin Laden and al Qaeda out and didn’t, despite the attacks against America overseas. “

Please cite your source for the 11 times.

Clinton was given authorization by Congress to bomb one location where it was suspected Bin Laden was staying overnight. They missed Bin Laden by minutes. Congress refused to give additional authrization to bomb suspected locations.

Further, the terroists who made the first attack on the Twin Towers were hunted down by the Clinton admimistration and brought to justice and are all in prison as we speak.

“Does anybody know that the PA governor that endorsed Ms. Clinton was a huge supporter of Farrakhan...”

Well I see you have made your way through all the elite ultra-left wing blog sites this morning and have your daily talking point down pat. It is my understanding that Rendell was praising Farrakhan in response to his specific help in a specific problem or issue that occured in PA. That is a far cry from being a huge supporter of Farraklan. That is far different than having a 20 year relationship with a pastor who went to Libya with Farrakhan.

“Obama is not responsible for what Rev. Wright says or does. He’s distanced and denounced the man; what more do you want??”

You are right. Obama is not responsible for what Wright says. But he is responsible for who he freely and knowlingly chose as his close and personal friend and spiritual advisor to him and his family for over 20 years. That relationship gives clues to Obama’s character. And Obama only denounced him when it became politically expedient and he saw his poll numbers go down. Kind of makes Obama just a regular politician not some new age kind of above the fray holier than thou candidate he portrays himself as, doesn’t it?

Greg...I’ve just linked the site and it is AWESOME!! GREAT JOB!!! I love it. I’m going to include the link in my own blog, and I’ve sent it around to all who will appreciate it as much as I do.

I’m glad that you’ve included the link and the reccomendation that ALL should read the Project for A New American Century. I haven’t linked to it from the site yet, (since I guess I know it all by rote at this point), but when I do, I’m thinking there might be some things I can add. (only because I HAVE been studying all elements of it for so long...what a group eh?) We’re talking the epitome of 21st Century fascism and the Coup that they brought about, and the takeover that followed.

So that is very helpful info, along with all of the rest. Thanks so much for sharing it.

And, you’re right on the money about getting the Wright controversy out of the way now. “They” truly did us all a favor, though you know it wasn’t intended to happen that way. (backfire in the first degree...isn’t it great when they do the work for us?)

So now, the concentration can be on McCain, and that’s sort of a no-brainer, since there’s no need to ‘create’ anything. I mean, think of all the work they had to put into creating the Wright smear, since there was nothing to be ‘gotten’ on Obama.

I’ve been following the efforts for months, and it got off to a slow start, despite the concerted efforts of the troll teams, assigned to this and other blogs. They just couldn’t get it to ‘catch’ until they got the overwhelming help from the Fox and Smear media. And now they have to consistently work that much harder, to try and keep it going in an environment that is fired up for more interesting and substantive stuff, even though it’s already backfired a couple of times.

It reminds me of the story of the donkey that fell in the well, and the ‘owner’ who was destroying the well to use for other opportunistic purposes, was just hoping to bury the donkey since it was determined that the donkey wasn’t worth bothering to try to get it out. So, they kept thrown buckets of dirt down the well, with the intention of burying the donkey in it, and then paving it over. Every time a fresh bucket of dirt was thrown down in the well, the donkey, ---shook it off, and….TOOK A STEP UP! After several buckets of the dirt had been thrown down, (with the donkey shaking it off, and taking a step up each time) the donkey eventually reached the surface of the well, took one more step up and sauntered off to the main house for a bit of refreshment. (Probably a lot of energy involved there, even for a donkey).

And, that’s the moral of the story. Shake the dirt off, and take another step up. (I know, kind of corny, but what the heck – there’ve been times when I’ve been downright inspired by that

Thanks again for the excellent job on the site.

Now I’m not comparing Barack Obama to a donkey, (even if that is the Democratic Party motto). But, since everybody keeps making an issue out of his ears, (which I’ve never really understood, because I’m telling you, I KNOW big ears when I see them..my dad has really large ear) then maybe that donkey character is appropriate enough.

My latest Obama for President blouse says..."We want a smart president this time!” The leadership will be a bonus.

Fanonite,

Yes, you can try to change the subject but the facts will remain. Rev. Wright breeds hatred and fear toward people of color unlike his own. That, by definition, is bigotry. You know it as well I anyone else. Changing the subject never changes the facts.

“......it’s the only thing they can find on him.”

Well, PH, it’s not. There is still Ayres, Rezko, and Auchi to name a few.

“......without fear that the Wright ordeal will be an issue in the GE. When the GOP brings it up in the general....it will be old news. THANKS MEDIA ! (can you say.....back-fired!)”

In your dreams, Greg Jones. Do you know how these guys and gals operate. There will be no let up on this. The media will keep hounding this and more till November. It will be a long six months.

i just found this comment over at ICH (information clearing house) it’s too good not to share.  oyate, in response to a mike whitney obama/wright piece, comments:
Hey, wait a minute...you don’t suppose we could just swap them out?  Most Americans can’t tell one black person from another.  It will take them years to figure out.
Now that would stir up some fun!

Ken Starr couldn’t find his own arse.

http://www.williamtheimpeached.com/vincefoster.htm

Wright is an interesting character and his background is worth looking at a bit more.

He and former Minnesota governor Jesse Ventura have some things in common.

Check out ...

“Marine Jeremiah Wright, SEAL Jesse Ventura speak bluntly”

Joint Recon Study Group blog
April 30, 2008
http://jointreconstudygroup.blogspot.com

No, my point was that when whitewater broke, they refused to put the paperwork that eventually cleared them out...to clear themselves.

Yes, an extramarital affair is no one’s business but the husband and wife; however, don’t lie under oath.  An affair isn’t illegal, but perjury is.

And some things, like firing the (career) travel office and replacing it with old friends just reeks...in the same way that the Left lambastes the the reeking cronyism of the Right.

Clinton didn’t steal the right’s dreams from them, Ross Perot did. 

Not being a Democrat, nor even of “the Left” (or the Right), i’m not particularly tied to any of these fights you all wage.  In fact, they look stupid, counter-productive, and self-destructive to me...on and from both sides.  But Bill Clinton was/is not a hero in any way, shape, or form.  It was a bungling, spineless administration.

Bill’s scandals have actually protected him, because Democrats reflexively defend his “honor”.  I suppose that Bill is all that they have...and that’s the really sad part of the story.

I’m in agreement with you Cyrena, I could care less about Hillary’s proclivities, however I dislike the double standard the controlled press is giving Obama.

The issue doesn’t concern anything Obama did or said but how others interpreted what someone around him had said.

How idiotic.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article19837.htm

The Jeremiah Wright You Won’t Hear on FOX News

By Mike Whitney

29/04/08 “ICH” --- - Jeremiah Wright is 5’ 10 ‘’ of tightly-packed explosives. He may be the best public speaker since Martin Luther King. He is bright, passionate, insightful and erudite. When he speaks; the sparks fly and the ground shakes. Yesterday, when Wright took the podium at the National Press Club, he knew he’d be taken to task no matter what he said. He knew that every word he uttered would be twisted by the media to make him look like a hate-monger, or worse, a racist. But Wright faced his critics with dignity and delivered another barnburner. By the end of the speech, everyone in attendance was on their feet applauding wildly for the man the corporate media has chosen to destroy. 

Reverend Wright:

“Our congregation has sent dozens of boys and girls to fight in the Vietnam War, the first Gulf War, and the present two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq.  My goddaughter’s unit just arrived in Iraq this week, while those who call me unpatriotic have used their positions of privilege to avoid military service, while sending over 4,000 American boys and girls of every race to die over a lie.” (Standing ovation)

Right on. Wright doesn’t mince his words. He knows what’s he wants to say and says it with gusto. Like Nietzsche opined, “If you want to be philosopher, bring a hammer”. Wright brought his hammer yesterday, only it turned out to be a sledgehammer. 

Reverend Wright:

“Our congregation took a stand against apartheid when the government of our country was supporting the racist regime of the African government in South Africa.
Our congregation stood in solidarity with the peasants in El Salvador and Nicaragua, while our government, through Ollie North and the Iran-Contra scandal, was supporting the Contras, who were killing the peasants and the Miskito Indians in those two countries.

Our congregation sent 35 men and women through accredited seminaries to earn their master of divinity degrees, with an additional 40 currently being enrolled in seminary, while building two senior citizen housing complexes and running two child care programs for the poor, the unemployed, the low-income parents on the south side of Chicago for the past 30 years.

Our congregation feeds over 5,000 homeless and needy families every year, while our government cuts food stamps and spends billions fighting in an unjust war in Iraq.” (second standing ovation)

The prophetic theology of the black church, which Wright preaches, is a theology of liberation and transformation. This isn’t the Jesus who provides fatter paychecks and vacation homes in the Barbados. This is Jesus the radical who came to deliver his people from bondage; to end segregation and Jim Crow, and to bring positive, meaningful and permanent change to “a social order that has gone sour.”

Rev. Wright:

“God does not want one people seeing themselves as superior to other people.  God does not want the powerless masses, the poor, the widows, the marginalized, and those underserved by the powerful few to stay locked into sick systems which treat some in the society as being more equal than others in that same society.”

Right again. Wright’s message is uncontroversial. So who put the bull’s-eye on his back and decided to make him out to be a clownish caricature of a raging black radical spewing vitriol? It wasn’t a black man, that’s for sure. Was it someone who had a stake in the upcoming election and knew the best way to destroy Obama was to create a straw-man who would embody the very characteristics that make white people “uncomfortable”?

Maybe I missed something.  Your point is...?

Here’s the Bio on “Rev.” John Hagee,Mr.Whore Of Babylon” himself. As far as I know, McCain hasn’t denounced him. Note, that like so many arch conservatives, the Rev has no military service in his background and the usual Bible Belt attitude towards “family values”.

Born in Baytown, Texas, to Rev. William Bythel Hagee and Mrs. B. Hagee, John Hagee graduated from Trinity University, Texas, with a Bachelor of Science (B.Sc.) in 1964.[5]. He was on a football scholarship and was on the Academic Dean’s List.[6] Hagee received a Master’s Degree from the University of North Texas in 1966 and did his theological training at Southwestern Assemblies of God University in Waxahachie, Texas,[5]. Hagee descends from a long line of Anabaptist Mennonite pastors, which was a factor in the development of his theology and vocation. In 1989, he received an Honorary Doctorate from Oral Roberts University.[7] In 2005, he received another Honorary Doctorate from Netanya Academic College in Israel.[8] Hagee has served on the Oral Roberts University Board of Regents since 1989.[5]

On August 26, 1960, Hagee married his first wife Martha; they had two children, Christopher and Tish.[5] In October 1966, Hagee founded Trinity Church in San Antonio, Texas.[9]

He resigned his pastorate in May 1975, purportedly saying “my marriage had collapsed and I became immoral in my personal conduct” in his resignation statement.[10] Hagee and his wife divorced in September 1975.[11]

Hagee married his second wife, Diana Castro, a member of the congregation 12 years his junior, on April 12, 1976.[12][10][5] Due to the bylaws of his Assemblies of God denomination, Hagee could no longer be ordained or licensed within and was defrocked[13], but sued the denomination for millions of dollars for defamation of character. Today, Hagee and his wife Diana have three children: Christina, Matthew, and Sandy. Matthew Hagee is the Associate Pastor of Cornerstone Church [14].

Immediately after resigning his first pastorate at Trinity Church, Hagee founded Castle Hills Assembly, later known as the Church of Castle Hills, on Mother’s Day 1975.[citation needed] Hagee’s 5,000 seat Cornerstone Church was dedicated On October 4, 1987. Dr. W. A. Criswell of Dallas anointed Hagee and Diana before the congregation.[citation needed]

Today, Trinity Church is located 7.3 miles from Hagee’s Cornerstone Church on the same stretch of highway in San Antonio.

Hagee has written a number of best-selling books and is a Southern Gospel recording artist. [15]

^ not too far off the mark here.  Obama is being vetted and may not survive, so be it.  We’re in deep shit with no shovel.  The best have not been the survivors which speaks volumes to our failed democratic process.

I don’t know if this recent rift between Obama and Wright is just ‘stagae craft’, or real, but if Obama ultimately makes it to the White House, it will be too late for any of us to do anything. After all, look at how we got stuck with George W until the end of his term, no matter what kind of crazy stuff he does in office. So, if we don’t stop Obama now, the chickens will really come home to roost ... and, we will either get a President (Obama) who was knowingly tied at the hip with an anti-American racist for 20+ years, or we will get a President who was too stupid to recognize an anti-American racist for 20+ years, or we will get a President who was in cahoots with an anti-American racist for 20+ years, and who together are now trying to deceive us all.

^ even posted here.  Do you want to join me here in the Land of Smiles?  You’re welcome to come and I would be happy to engage you in conversation/debate and beers or what ever is your pleasure.  But I must say I would not like the sound of “President McCane” (pun intended).  As to the other two I’m far less than happy.  I hope you would agree that our country needs healing and the leadership to facilitate that process.

Peace.......

cyrena...u felt the need to issue a longish response to me.  i feel the same in return.  here goes:

1) to get the easy stuff out of the way.  i used the expression “thrown under the bus.” ok..it probably wasn’t the greatest way to say something...i was probably under the influence of e. robinson’s article of yesterday.  also, i’m at a disadvantage here...i’m on dial-up and unable to get u tube video feeds.  i have seen most of what wright said on friday and sunday and i have no problem with it.  i haven’t seen full video feeds of either wright’s national press club visit or obama’s response to it.  but from what i have seen and read of wright’s press club appearance, obama’s severe response to it was totally inappropriate.  was there really anything there to disassociate himself to the degree he did from a man he had known for 20 years?  i see this as a betrayal, if not a throwing under the bus.

2) u said: “i do blame him [wright] for suggesting that the attack on him was an attack on the black church.” agreed.  we all have our egos and wright suggesting that he represented the black church was too much. and, i bet, upon reflection, wright would agree with us and probably laugh at himself for at all suggesting he did.

3) u said: “if you’re not smart enough to know that this was long ago set up as a way to get at barack obama, then that is sad as well.” long ago set up?
hey, this is a political campaign...people are fighting for power.  how in any way was this set up?  some jerks found a tape of wright saying “god damn america..god damn america.” they pulled the quote out of its context and then looped it and looped it.  it’s sad, but some people are actually going to see this edited tape as a reason for voting against obama.  i believe, ultimately, this is why obama broke off relations with wright to the degree he did.  u probably see this as a pragmatic political move on his part, albeit sad that he “took the bait.” i see this as saying something about his character that i definitely don’t like.  i guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this one.

4) about politicians and the palestinians:  i’m sure kucinich has expressed sympathy for the palestinians.
and i’m sure a few others have as well.  hell, even hillary declared for a palestinian state and hugged arafat’s wife in 1999.  then she back-pedaled, as obama has back-pedaled from his earlier expressed sympathies for the palestinians.  israel is such a no-win topic for any american politician..i’m sure it leaves both of us with our heads just shaking.

5) u said: “you’ve got troubles with obama. i don’t.”
yesterday, after finding out that obama had pretty much completely broken off relations with wright, i posted the following: “well, i kinda sensed it all along.  now i know it.  barack obama is a comprador black man.” this was my visceral response to what i saw as betrayal.  i MEANT it.
after a night’s sleep, i feel a bit foolish.  my outburst was at best intemperate, and at worst, just plain mean.  i apologize.

cyrena, i’ve liked the general thrust of your posts here at truthdig.  i just wish you’d have a more robust skepticism when it comes to obama...peace

Wright is right.  And he does not speak for Obama.  And Obama does not speak for Wright. 

But Obama is playing politics.  Just like Hillary. 

The press has blown this way out of proportion. 

Wright is a Veteran and has spoken the truth.  Let’s concentrate on who voted for an illegal war.  Remember this war of occupation is still going on.  The monies that our local county has lost due to this illegal war could have built many schools or hospitals or repaired infrastructure.

Let’s focus on what matters.  All dumb asses need to view the entire message Wright preached.  And those dumb asses are the press!!!  Listen to the message and quit going for sensation off of a sound bite!!!

What’s your point? That the Clinton’s should have responded to phony, contrived “scandals” as if they were credible and germane? If Monica was blowing the president, she’s following in a rich tradition of extracurricular presidential sex. Is this anybody’s business but the prez and his wife’s? If I’ve done something natural and legal, but being discovered would be a huge embarrassment, I might lie about it too, because screw ‘em, it’s none of their business. Maybe not the wisest approach with a hungry press sniffing my trail and a sworn enemies wielding dog whistles, but if that makes me a crappy president in your eyes, then you’ve got your priorities twisted.

Have you really forgotten what was going on when Clinton “stole” the presidency from the Right? They thought they had it all wrapped up - the whole power structure of the country was theirs. And Clinton came and triangulated it all away from them. They were beside themselves. And some of the most vicious among them decided to make it their mission to ruin him (and his bitch-lesbian wife). And now some of you (not you - you just point to their string of “scandals” and how they “looked guilty” because they wouldn’t treat these allegations as legitimate - do you?) on the left who see Hillary as an obstacle to your dream candidate are using these same contrived stories. Appalling.