Here’s what we know: Obama makes a good speech and he is a bright kid.

Does he know why we are in Iraq? If so, and he hasn’t bothered to mention it to us, then he is the same kind of lying pol that we have dealt with for the past 30 years.

Does he know that he automatically loses everything south of VA and MD and east of CA? He must, but he keeps pretending that a black man can win the presidency, and for that lie, he will destroy the Democratic Party.

Here’s the rub: Hillary could have won the Presidency going away had this charismatic negro not come into the race for the Dem nomination and won a bunch of southern states to propel himself into the nomination with the same states which will never ever vote for him in the general.

Not that EITHER candidate or Biden or any of the others could have won over the cheating Repubs, or the Bushitters who likely will foreclose on elections and keep Bush in place for the next ten years, but the ONE candidate who NEVER could win the presidency is the one who kept Hillary from doing it, and did so knowing full well that he could never win it, and you call what she is doing VINDICTIVE?

Shit.

So by your lights, cyr, Hillary is a deranged, hysterical woman who would rather kill herself than let the “better man” walk? I’m sorry, is that putting too sexist a twist on the picture? It doesn’t really work very well for a guy-candidate, but lets neuter the image anyway. Hillary is a deranged, desparate politician who would rather commit suicide than let anyone else win. How’s that? Hey, if it can reduce your opponent to something less than human, why not go for it? It’s a lot better than thinking that she might want the job because she actually thinks she is the better candidate, will do a better job if elected, and have more success in advancing progressive ideas like universal health and rational, progressive tax structures, and that there are a whole bunch of people who have put their sweet and blood on the line to help her win this election who might feel betrayed if she just calls it quits while there was some - albeit slender - hope of winning, because, well, you say she should.

This is your “new kind of politics” eh?

I’ve been supporting Obama since the day he announced in Springfield. Everything was working for me until sometime last week. I’m not sure if it was the debate or something I heard in the analysis later, but, whenever I hear the “dream ticket” idea float into converstations by the talking heads, I become physically ill, and on a deeper level, something doesn’t seem right. (It’s the same feeling I had when I heard about the planes hitting the WTC on 9/11)

It’s not that I “hate Hillary” (more than any other “corporatist") it’s just that she represents, in my mind, the polar opposite of everything I’d imagined when Obama uses the word “hope.” To hear people say, “well, why don’t they just run together? Wouldn’t that be cool? It would unite the party”, I get the feeling that no one is paying attention to what’s happened to our government.

In my mind, there is no two-party system in Washington. It’s just two different ways of selling the same thing: a kind of neo-fascism. (I call it the “corporatist party") Our representative democracy isn’t representing the American people, it’s representing multinational corporations AGAINST the American people. Worse, the various bases of the two parties are being played for suckers to support something they have been kept unaware of: the undoing of the rule of law, and the bill of rights.

What if the coporatists knew Hillary would never pass the smell test with progressives, so they decided to put her out there, and in this position of dividing the party down the middle where Obama would have to put her on the ticket, they now have a way to sell us back into slavery?

It’s a disturbing thought. (sorry to bore you with it)

Obama-Webb (Gore, McKaskill, Nepolitano, Richardson) ‘08

Wow Jaded Prole..

You really did hit this on the head, just in the title..VINDICTIVE GOAL...that’s exactly what it is now.

It’s the ‘if I can’t have it, nobody will’.

rage made a good point also, in that Hillary is even wiping out her own continued political career in the Senate, and doesn’t seem to care. She’s so intent on the vindictive goal, that she’s failed to realize that she’s wiping her own self out in the same measure.

Kind of like a murder suicide…

It’s no longer about winning the nomination for Clinton. It’s about crippling the Democratic candidate so she can say “I told you so” and run against McCain in the next selection.