...“Efforts have been made to distort my position. It has been said, in effect, that I was a warmonger. Nothing could be further from the truth. I know war as few other men now living know it, and nothing to me is more revolting. I have long advocated its complete abolition, as its very destructiveness on both friend and foe has rendered it useless as a means of settling international disputes. Indeed, on the second day of September, nineteen hundred and forty-five, just following the surrender of the Japanese nation on the Battleship Missouri, I formally cautioned as follows:

Men since the beginning of time have sought peace. Various methods through the ages have been attempted to devise an international process to prevent or settle disputes between nations. From the very start workable methods were found in so far as individual citizens were concerned, but the mechanics of an instrumentality of larger international scope have never been successful. Military alliances, balances of power, Leagues of Nations, all in turn failed, leaving the only path to be by way of the crucible of war. The utter  destructiveness of war now blocks out this alternative. We have had our last chance. If we will not devise some greater and more equitable system, Armageddon will be at our door. The problem basically is theological and involves a spiritual recrudescence and improvement of human character that will synchronize with our almost matchless advances in science, art, literature, and all material and cultural developments of the past 2000 years. It must be of the spirit if we are to save the flesh.”

all this and ever So Much More to be found here:

http://www.amazon.com/Anti-War-Quote-Book-Eric-Groves/dp/1594742294/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206913919&sr=8-1

Strive On, Friends, Strive On…..

What you’re seeing here Luigi is people so conflicted about violence that they’ve become rather irrational.  The far left sees Berkeley as its bastion of peaceful righteousness.  The rest of the rational world sees it as a self-indulgent symbol of the pacifist’s ability to bury their collective head in the sand and pretend the world is a peaceful nirvana… if only that nasty U.S. military would just go away.

So your post will probably go unanswered, but your observation certainly addresses one of the many contradictions of far left ideology.

By Bubba, March 27 at 6:27 pm #
(28 comments total)
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Very Funny…

“If you weren’t so transparently dimwitted, Marshall, I’d swear you were a troll.”

...and yet you refuse to respond to my points.  As is endemic of the left, you “win” the argument by closing it down.  Thanks, and have a great life.

If you weren’t so transparently dimwitted, Marshall, I’d swear you were a troll.

I think recruits are well aware that war means killing.  I don’t think we need to indoctrinate them with the philosophy that they only need perform their duty if it meets your brand of moral certitude.

I love the way you try and have it both ways; that war is always possible to avoid, but that it’s necessary in some cases.  I guess you’re right; war is possible to avoid if you don’t mind being conquered.

War is awful - just as confrontation and even altercation can be awful and sometimes unavoidable facts of personal everyday life; like if a crazy guy attacks you for no reason, or simply because he doesn’t like your religion or the color of your skin.  But what you’re selling is pacifism, and few sane people are buying. 

And if you say you’re not selling pacifism, then you simply have a policy dispute over when war is appropriate.  That’s it.  You get no moral high ground here because your views are lost in the muddle of what we believe is worth fighting for and what’s not.  And Islamofacism is something I believe is worth fighting.

Correction:

Ah, summer grasses!
All that remains
Of the warriors’ dreams. — Basho

Another excellent post, cyrena. 

I had veterans in my family, too.  One was in WW I and spent time as a prisoner of war in Africa, eating rats to stay alive. He let me feel some of the shrapnel below the skin in his legs and chest when I was a kid, before I was to undergo surgery, to help me get my courage up.

Another relative was in WW II. The ship he was being transported on was bombed and sank. He survived by finding some flotsam that kept him afloat until he was rescued. It wasn’t buoyant enough for two. When one of his fellow soldiers tried desperately to grab onto it as well, he had no choice but to shove him off. He watched him drown. He never said a word about the war. I found out the story from his wife. 

One of the stupidest bastards currently on the face of the Earth has to be John McCain. With everything he’s been through, you’d think he’d know better, but no. He’s like the asswipe who keeps losing at the roulette wheel but can’t walk away from the table.  Loser!

If these sons of bitches would just fuck themselves up, one could have pity on them. But instead of showing real courage and climbing out of their personal hells, they prefer to drag everybody else in with them.

Fuck them all.

And God fuck the part of America that’s stupid enough and cowardly enough to support him.

“Hope I’m not outta line!” — Lenny Bruce

Ah, summer grasses!
All that remains
Of the warrior dreams. — Basho

Now I know Cyrena ,you read the requirements in its entirety, so waivers being issued Routinely must be a lie,because you didn’t print or OK it.

Excellent Post Bubba. Thanks for it.

The fact that so many Americans are aware of what you’ve brought to us, is why there are fewer and fewer who are willing to ‘volunteer’ to serve in the military now.

The result is that for the most part, the only ‘recruits’ are those who are NOT aware, and can be ‘fooled’ by all of the cons and promises of all that may be available to them, in terms of travel, experience, the acquistion of skills for use later, and on and on.

And, there have indeed been times in the course of American History, (the 20th Century) when those things HAVE been avaiable to them. But for the most part, that has been during the times when we have NOT been involved in active wars of agression on multiple fronts.

I know many people who have served in the military, and have gained valuable experience, and provided valuable services.

That is NOT what is happening now, and we all know it.

In the past 6 years, we’ve watched the military become more and more desperate. They’ve RAISED the maximum age, and LOWERED just about all other requirements, including the physical requirements.

I remember my grandma telling us many years ago, about the story of my dad’s attempts to get into the Army back in the late 40’s or early 50’s. He tried twice, and was rejected basically for being ‘too puny’. (he was only 18 or 19, and just a skinny kid). But, he was determined, so he went on a ‘bulk up’ regime. My grandma says he ate up all the meat and vegetables she or grandpa could come up with, (and there were several kids in the batch) and drank gallons of milk. (I guess it was cheaper then).

Anyway, they finally did take him, and after boot camp, they sent him to Korea. He was there (in combat) for 3 weeks, and shot/wounded. He’s spent several years (back then) in various VA facilities, and he’s still with us, though permanently disabled. And, he was able to work in the private sector despite his disability. But then, there was care available back then for our Veterans.

Now of course, we send the same group of kids over and over, and over. They do 3 and 4 tours of duty, and the Pentagon is sending them back into combat, even after they’ve been wounded or are otherwise disabled.

Waivers are now issued ROUTINELY, for anyone who actually is willing to ‘volunteer’ and that’s been the case for over 5 years now.

So yes, the military is selling death, and there are still some who are desperate enough to buy into it.

Marshall: “So what exactly are you saying, Bubba?  Military shouldn’t be allowed to recruit for its all volunteer force?  Military should disband altogether?  I have no idea what your point is.”

(Note: An earlier reply written several hours ago appears not to have posted.)

I’m saying, among other things, that the military should be required by law not to indoctrinate potential recruits.  It should be required instead to ensure potential recruits are ~thoroughly~ educated on the evil and ugly aspects of both the military and of war before they are allowed to join. 

The military sells glory, glamour, travel, valuable experience, benefits, the opportunity to accomplish valorous or simply useful deeds, etc..  Fine.  It should also be required to make clear what else it is selling. 

The military is selling death.  It is selling the killing of men, women and children, whether guilty of anything or not.  This includes the killing of its own men, women and children, as occurs with friendly fire. 

The military is selling the destruction, in large or small part, of entire societies; not only through the killing of its people but through the destruction and/or theft of its treasure. 

The military is selling the subjugation and oppression of occupied people, be they guilty of anything or not. 

A recruiter should be required to make a potential recruit understand, without equivocation, that he or she may be ordered to participate in illegal and/or immoral and/or criminal wars.  And if that happens, he or she may be further ordered to kill innocent men, women and children — and to suffer the moral consequences of having done so. 

You may be familiar with the phrase, “war is a necessary evil.”  So as to leave no wiggle room, I would observe that war, even in those extreme and rare instances when it becomes necessary, is ~still~ evil.  It is evil because all wars can be prevented, and to fail to do so, and so leave oneself with no other choice than to engage in war, is but a part of the evil of war. 

It is because war is evil that no one on ~either~ side totally escapes the spiritual, mental and material costs of war. 

It is immoral and criminal to recruit anyone, let alone the young, without their being fully informed of what they’re being recruited for.  Only the most base and irresponsible, or the adequately indoctrinated and irresponsible, would approve of how the U.S. military recruits. 

It is possible to know what one is getting into, to sign up, and to serve honourably in an evil but necessary war.  There may be no other more honourable or valuable service a person may perform.  But what are each individuals odds?  And what about those who engage in evil wars that are entirely unnecessary? 

The military should be required, by law, to recruit only from the pool of those who understand what war is and what their odds of getting through it honourably may be. 

Conditions in America do not allow for a viable volunteer military.  It does not have a large enough pool of qualified recruits who are willing and capable of engaging honourably in the evil of war, be it a necessarily or unnecessary war.  Unless it gets its shit together in a big way and in a big hurry, those conditions will not exist for some time. 

America needs to scrap its policy of empire and the militarism that is in lockstep with it.

All this was on about.com also from experience. Miscellaneous Provisions

In general, the following additional conditions will render one ineligible for enlistment, and waivers will not normally be granted:

1. Intoxicated or under influence of alcohol or drugs at time of application, or at any stage of processing for enlistment.

2. Having history of psychotic disorders or state of insanity at time of application for enlistment.

3. Questionable moral character.

4. Alcoholism.

5. Drug dependence.

6. Sexual perversion.

7. History of antisocial behavior.

8. History of frequent or chronic venereal disease.

9. Previously separated for unfitness, unsuitability, unsatisfactory performance, misconduct or bar to reenlistment, with 18 or more years of active Federal service completed.

10. Applicants for retirement and persons receiving retirement or retainer pay, except for combat-wounded personnel.

11. Persons unable to present written evidence (official documents) of prior service claimed, until such service has been verified.

12. Persons whose enlistment are not clearly consistent with interests of national security.

13. Last discharged or separated from a component of a U.S. Armed Force, with other than honorable discharge, or general discharge.

14. Criminal or juvenile court charges filed or pending against them by civil authorities.

15. Persons under civil restraint, such as confinement, parole, or probation.

16. Subject of initial civil court conviction or adverse disposition for more than one felony offense.

17. Civil conviction of a felony with any one of the following:

a. Three or more offenses (convictions or other adverse dispositions) other than traffic.

b. Applicants with juvenile felony offenses who have had no offenses within 5 years of application for enlistment may be considered for a waiver in meritorious cases.

18. Subject of initial civil court conviction or other adverse dispositions for sale, distribution, or trafficking (including “Intent To:) of cannabis (marijuana), or any other controlled substance.

19. Prior Service with an RE-Code of “4.”

20. Persons with a Bad Conduct or Dishonorable discharge.

21. Persons with prior service last discharged from any component of the Armed Forces for drug or alcohol abuse, or as rehab failure during their last period of service.

22. Three or more convictions or other adverse dispositions for driving while intoxicated, drugged, or impaired in the 5 years preceding application for enlistment.

23. Confirmed positive result for alcohol or drugs (test administered at MEPS) (May be waived by some of the Services).

24. Persons with convictions or other adverse dispositions for 5 or more misdemeanors preceding application for enlistment.

25. Alien without lawful admittance or legal residence in the United States.

26. Permanently retired by reason of physical disability.

27. Retirement after 20 years of active Federal service.

28. Officers removed from active or inactive service by reason of having attained maximum age or service.

29. Discharged by reason of conscientious objection.

So in conclusion all your anti recruiting statements are false,are there bad recruiters ? Yes. just like Bad Libs ,Repubs, Teachers ,Priest, Nuns Black people, White people, Doctors, Nurses, there is bad everything

Isnt this what all the liberals want just give them a chance,they were only kids when they did that.  Marine Corps. The Marines divide criminal offenses into one of six categories. In general, a waiver is required for: five to nine minor traffic offenses; two to five more serious traffic offenses; two or more Class 1 minor non-traffic offenses; two to nine Class 2 minor non-traffic offenses; two to five serious offenses; or one felony. Individuals with ten or more minor traffic offenses, six or more serious traffic offenses, ten or more Class 2 minor non-traffic offenses, six or more serious non-traffic offenses, or more than one felony are not eligible for a waiver. For details, see our Marine Corps Criminal History Information Pages.

Navy. The Navy divides criminal offenses into four separate categories. Applicants with six or more minor traffic violations, three or more Minor Non-Traffic Violations/Minor Misdemeanors, one or more Non-Minor Misdemeanors, or one or more felonies, require a waiver. For complete information, see our Navy Criminal History Information Pages.

Let me mention that although, technically, felonies can be waived, the services almost never do this. This is especially true if the crime involved sale of narcotics, sex crimes, or violence. Additionally, those convicted of “domestic violence,” by federal law, are prohibited from owning or possessing firearms. That pretty much makes the individual worthless for military purposes, so such waivers are not likely to be approved.

Whether or not a waiver will be considered or approved depends on several factors, including the exact circumstances of the offense, how old the applicant was at the time, how long ago the offense occured, and how bad that particular military service needs that particular warm body at that particular point in time. In general, during years when the services are having few problems attracting qualified recruits, fewer waivers are considered and approved. During years when the services are having a difficult time finding enough qualified volunteers to meet their quotas, one can expect more waivers to be considered and approved.

One also needs to understand that the wavier approval process is somewhat subjective. What I mean by that is there is some human being (usually a commander), in the chain of command who will ultimately approve or disapprove the waiver request. If, for example, that person recently had their house burglarized, they are probably not going to feel very “generous” towards any waiver request involving burglary or theft. For more detailed information, see our Criminal History Waiver Information Page.

Enlistment As An Alternative To Prosecution

Applicants may not enlist as an alternative to criminal prosecution, indictment, incarceration, parole, probation, or other punitive sentence. They are ineligible for enlistment until the original assigned sentence would have been completed.

The following programs are considered to be Tier 2 Education credentials:

Test-based Equivalency Diploma Graduate: An applicant who possesses a GED or other test-based high school equivalency certificate or diploma. This includes, for example, statewide testing programs such as the California High School Proficiency Examination (CHSPE), whereby examinees may earn a certificate of competency or proficiency. A person who subsequently obtains a local or state-issued diploma solely on the basis of such equivalency testing is not considered as a Tier I high school graduate for the Marines, Army and Navy, but may (depending upon State laws) be considered as Tier I for the Air Force.

Certificate of Attendance. An applicant who possesses an attendance-based certificate or diploma. These are sometimes called certificates of competency or completion, but they are based on course completion rather than a test such as the GED or CHSPE. A person who subsequently obtains a local or state-issued diploma on the basis of an attendance credential is not to be considered a Tier I high school graduate in the Navy, Army and Marine Corps, but may (depending upon State laws) be considered as Tier I for the Air Force.

Alternative/Continuation High School. Those applicants who do not meet the Tier I criteria as described above.

Home Study. An applicant who earned a high school diploma or certificate awarded by a state, based upon certification by a parent or guardian that the individual completed his/ her secondary education at home. (Note: In the Air Force, many home study programs are considered Tier I graduates, depending on state law).

Under a special test program, the Army is treating home school graduates as Tier I. See Home School Program article for more details.

Correspondence School Diploma. An applicant who earns a diploma or certificate upon completion of correspondence school course work, regardless of whether the diploma was issued by a correspondence school, a state, or a secondary or post-secondary educational institution. (In the Army & Air Force, such diplomas (issued by a State) may be considered Tier I, depending upon the laws of the State.

Occupational Program Certificate (Vo/Tech). An applicant who has attended a vocational/technical or proprietary school for at least 675 classroom hours and possesses a certificate of attendance or completion indicating such. Correspondence schools offering vocational certificates are not included.

Tier 3 - Non-High School Graduate.Individuals who are not attending high school and are neither high school graduates nor alternative credential holders. The services almost never accept a Tier 3 candidate for enlistment. (Added Note: March 14, 2005—I’ve been informed that the Navy Reserves is currently accepting Tier III applicants).

Tier 1 - High School Graduate

This means a diploma, not a GED. It also includes those who have completed at least one semester of full-time college (defined as 15 semester credit hours or more). The vast majority of enlistees (well over 90 percent) fall into this category.

High School Diploma: Based on attendance and completion of a 12 year or grade day program of classroom instruction; issued from the school where the individual completed all the program requirements.

Adult Education Diploma: Secondary school diploma awarded on the basis of attending and completing an adult education or diploma “external” program, regardless of whether the diploma was issued by a state or by a secondary or post-secondary educational institution. For adult education diploma holders to be categorized Tier I high school graduates, their educational program must include attendance which is comparable to that of traditional high schools. Diploma holders possessing attendance not deemed comparable, and/or have been credited attendance based on some form of test-based credential, are usually classified as Tier II status.

The Army allows applicants who is currently enrolled in an adult education or college program, and who further is expected to graduate or attain the required credits within 365 days may to enlist in the Delayed Enlistment Program (DEP).

Completed One Semester of College: A person who attends a college or university and successfully completes at least 15 semester or 20 quarter hours of college-level credit. “Successfully completed” means that the individual earned college-level credits (level 100 or higher) toward a degree in higher education from an institution listed in the degree granting section of the current version of the Accredited Institutions of Post-secondary Education (AIPE), published by the American Council on Education for the Council of Post Secondary Accreditation. NOT all institutions listed in the current AIPE are considered as offering college-level credits. The credits must have been earned through actual classroom participation at the institution awarding the credits.

Note: For the Army, completion of college courses below the 100 level will be accepted for enlistment if the course is clearly identified as a college level course and credit will be recognized by the college towards graduation and degree completion requirements. An original letter on the college letterhead stationary is required to verify the status of courses completed.

Note: Under a special test program, the Army is treating home school graduates as Tier I. See Home School Program article for more details.

Tier 2 - Alternative Credential Holder

The services limit the number of Tier II candidates it will allow to enlist each year. In the Air Force, the limit is less than one percent each year. In such cases, the applicant must score a minimum of 50 on the AFQT to qualify (Note: The “AFQT” is the overall ASVAB score).

The Army will allow up to 10 percent each year to be Tier II candidates, but they must score a minimum of 50 on the AFQT.

The Marines will only allow about 5 percent each year to be Tier II, and the Navy about 10 percent. Like the Army and Air Force, Tier II recruits must score a minimum of 50 on the AFQT to qualify.

The Coast Guard only accepts Tier 2 candidates if they have prior military service, and even then requires them to score higher on the AFQT (50 for prior Coast Guard Service, 65 for prior service in other branches).

“are you referring to about our” , yup my spelling sucks,so I wont bring up your sentence structure, this was from your reply to Joe. My son ‘Who voted for Obama” which made me proud that he could choose on his own,and didn’t let my Republican leanings influence him, still wants to join the service though when he finishes school. Damn he voted for OB and still wants to serve, almost poetic. As far as the Military not defending this country, you look at it as if they have to land on our shores to be considered an attack. Your opinion and the code stink ladies, If we as a country waited to be attacked, and took a few hundred casualties on our coast, would it be ok to defend ourselves then?

It’s easy to satirize Berkeley for their liberal traditions but we needed more Berkeley’s and San Francisco’s to dissent against the war in Iraq rather than the mindless patriotism exhibited by most other cities. If that had happened maybe Bush and company would have gotten the message. But back then most of the U.S. went along with Bush’s and his neocon advisers who got us into this mess. At least Berkeley is trying to save their children from volunteering to fight Bush’s wars.

I think Rob Riggle is hilarious, even though I disagree with his pro-Marine bias.
It’s always hard to be the butt of a joke, but we should not take ourselves so seriously that we can’t laugh at ourselves.
Everybody has their place in this crazy world. Jeesh, after all although Rob Riggle would be great at a party, I suspect that he would have a hard time staying a marine if he was promoted to a leadership position - unless he figured out how to make the enemy laugh to death!

I know, how *stupid*! Hasn’t that moron ever heard of the National Lawyers’ Guild?

Fool - the U.S. military hasn’t defended Unitedstatesian rights since the War of 1812.  Name one threat to the United States after that.

Remember, before you answer, that (of many examples - look into them) Nazi Germany considered Poland to be a threat prior to its invasion.  The foolish, duped people, that is, not their cynical leaders as they prepare the human herd to serve as cannon fodder.

“I thought” is the title of your comment?  Did you really?

I’m sorry Joe, I stand chastised, but didn’t you find it all funny when the Code Pink lady wishes that there was an organization that was committed to fight for her right to free speech?

Everyone, calm down.  VoT is a young kid.  (The alternative, that he is an adult who thinks like this, is too terrifying to contemplate.)  When I was twelve, I used to do much the same thing, just not on pretty websites that now dominate the internet.  Yes, when I was young, I was a conservative.  For instance, being innocent of any knowledge about the war on Vietnam, I despaired that the U.S. government had surrendered in a battle against godless communism.  But as Paul wrote, “When I was a child I spoke as a child I understood as a child I thought as a child; but when I became a man I put away childish things.”

(If I may have one conceit, I wrote a lot better at age twelve than VoT.  I was considered precocious back then - imagine, what the level of intelligence in the United States has dipped to if today VoT would be considered a bright, early-blooming intellect!)

VoT has not yet put away childish things, and he could use a helping hand.

VoT, write a report on Smedley D. Butler, USMC.  2-3 pages for a short biography, a 4-5 page synopsis of Major General Butler’s ideas as discussed in his 1935 book, and a 1-2 page conclusion updating the book for today as Major General Butler would have been most likely to do it.

To provide a short introduction to the man, VoT, let me write in a language you are more likely to understand: if Butler were to meet you in the flesh, you’d soon be bitch-slapped and unconscious on the floor (after the slap, Butler might make an exasperated comment about the low quality of parenting in the future). 

If Butler were to meet Rob Riggle in the flesh, he’d salute his fellow Marine, and begin to teach him.  However, replacing ingrained and false ideas is difficult when those ideas are the glue holding one’s membership in an in-group together with a positive group, and by extension self-, image.  I would hope VoT will have regained consciousness by then, so he could sit and listen.

Very well said, cyrena.

I saw this some time ago and thought it was hilarious.  Now, on to the looneys here….

“If we got rid of US Imperialism, we wouldn’t need the Marines.”
Holy Shit, what looney world are you living in??

“So, along with the straight goods and the hype, perhaps t recruits should be shown photos or accounts of dead, injured, maimed, etc. soldiers and marines, as well as those of dead, injured, maimed, etc. civilians, including young and old men, women and children.”
How about abortionists show the same to teenage girls??  Or show the girls a realistic picture of their fetus at that time, including hearing the heartbeat??

“For those who suggest (and continue to suggest) that it is that actions of our military, (past and present) that allows us to write or speak freely, I’d like to remind again, that THAT is BS!! It is the Constitution that provides us those rights, and it also has some obligations built into it as well.”
The US Constitution is a piece of paper that wouldn’t wipe the shit off your ass if there was no military to defend it.  Are you that stupid?  Oh, that was a rhetorical question.

“And, they monitor (or hang around) nearby recruitment stations to try to talk young people out of signing on to death squads.”
WHAT???  Crap, I never saw that advertisement, I would have signed up immediately!

You’re right Bubba…

About the high school recruitment. All branches of the military DO set up ‘recruitment’ stations in and around schools…HIGH SCHOOLS. I think the age limit is still 18, with or without a parent’s permission. (I think…don’t quote me there).

A HIGH SCHOOL diploma however, is NO LONGER REQUIRED, if the soon-to-be child soldier can pass the GED. Nor is a ‘criminal record’ a drawback any longer. Waivers are provided routinely, even for felony convictions.

This incident (or the running off of the recruiters in Berkeley) is not so unusual, with the exception of code pink’s involvement. There are many groups of parents in communities large and small, (at least throughout California) that routinely monitor these recruiters, at least to the extent of making sure that they don’t go beyond the established policy/laws for where they can do this ‘recruitment’.  For instance, they have to be so many feet removed from a High School campus, and other stuff.

And, they monitor (or hang around) nearby recruitment stations to try to talk young people out of signing on to death squads. Where these recruiters have had the most success (at least here in my state) is in the area closest to the border with Mexico, because the favorite ‘trick’ there, is to promise undocumented citizens a ‘fast track’ to citizenship for themselves and their families, if they’ll sign up. (They tell them that they’ll put in a word with INS). Needless to say, THAT never happens, and the Military balks at even recognizing these folks once they are killed or injured in combat.

For those who suggest (and continue to suggest) that it is that actions of our military, (past and present) that allows us to write or speak freely, I’d like to remind again, that THAT is BS!!

It is the Constitution that provides us those rights, and it also has some obligations built into it as well.

In answer to Marshall’s query about ‘recruitment’ in an ‘all volunteer’ military I’d suggest that the two concepts are a bit of paradox. If one is going to VOLUNTEER, as so many of my own family members have done over the years, that would involve just that. It would involve presenting oneself at one of these many centers, and inquiring or otherwise going though the process to ‘volunteer’. That’s not quite the same as having the military recruiters hanging around schools and in malls, and the like.

I doubt very seriously if the average (informed) American has much trouble with the acceptance of a military for the purposes that were outlined in the Constitution. For the purposes of DEFENSE of our nation, we clearly appreciate and support a military force.

However, if Americans are being asked die for the benefit of the corporate oligarchy, (Cheney’s pursuit of OIL and US hegemony throughout the globe) that becomes an entirely different issue. Nobody raises their children or otherwise encourages them to become trained killers that will engage in the killing of innocents in lands NOT our own, (or anywhere) or to be killed or permanently injured in the same endeavors.

It is THAT which current military recruiters are doing, and so no…they aren’t going to be welcome much anywhere, under those conditions. That’s why for the most part, this current ‘all volunteer’ military is made up of those who are without other opportunities for survival. There are no jobs available to them, and so they are most vulnerable to the tricks of these recruiters.

Now when the US military determines that our cause is SO worthy, then maybe they’ll decide that ALL Americans should ‘volunteer’ to do this killing and dying. If that be the case, (like if it was really an exercise in DEFENSE of this nation) they wouldn’t have to do this ‘recruiting’.

Chickenhawks steer clear of the imperialist misadventures.

Yes, you’re a typical white trash! What else anyone can add?! As an advocate of war, I just can wish you a miserable or a “glorious” death in the latest evil war in Iraq, and you will not be a hero, but another fat number of sacrificial lambs at the altar of evil Bush and gang!

So what exactly are you saying, Bubba?  Military shouldn’t be allowed to recruit for its all volunteer force?  Military should disband altogether?  I have no idea what your point is.

the clip was great, It showed how stupid code stink really is. Hey if Berkley does not the Marines there, take away the federal funding. They should have done that a long time ago. And P.T. weather or not you want to admit it, at some point in time Marines giving their life have allowed you to print the crap that you can. Not just the Marines, Army, Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard. So go on about your anti-military tirade, as far as I’m concerned ,your speaking to the hand, There was a guy on here a while back, even though he was an idiot, he said it plain as day, If we were ever to get attacked and they took away your toys, you would be at the front of the line demanding to know why the military didn’t protect you. Bubba High School seniors are not children, they are like any recruiting force, they show you what they have, and wait for you or the parents to call them, My son was thinking about the Marines and they called the house, I told them he had decided to go to collage, and he was never called again. and if you ask a question they will tell you the correct answer, it is a written contract, only broken by you or your parents if you are under 18, every Marine Soldier, and Sailor before the oath of enlistment is given are told that in a time of war (if you don’t know what war is at 18,you shouldn’t be in high school.)you might go , and the contract states also the the needs of the military come first. Does a car salesman tell you your buying a lemon? Did your last job tell you some days might suck worst than others? and the police brutality against women and children I doubt it. But if a woman is stupid enough to bring her children to an anti war demo, which has for years been known to get violent, the woman not the children should get her ass kicked. All the videos out there show the anti war people as the aggressors. Cindy (Chavez) Sheehan, well she is code pink, she wont tell you she signed for her son to join, probably to get away from her. and DS didnt get snowed they did it to show how dumb the anti war protesters and Berkley can be….

. . . we wouldn’t need the Marines.

I may be mistaken but my guess is that neither the victims of the “humour” nor the “humour,” itself, were much appreciated. 

The little I’ve heard — and although I’ve no reason to discount it, neither have I verified its accuracy—is that the military recruiters recruit, among others, children who attend the neighbourhood high school(s). 

Whether they’re children or adults, what ~is~ known is that military recruitment is not exactly honest, and that there’s something to be said about honesty in advertising.  It’s not as though they’re selling iPods or potato chips.  So, along with the straight goods and the hype, perhaps t recruits should be shown photos or accounts of dead, injured, maimed, etc. soldiers and marines, as well as those of dead, injured, maimed, etc. civilians, including young and old men, women and children.

In other words, it might be an idea if recruiters were required by law to ensure that possible recruits are educated thoroughly in the ugly side of war and the military before they’re allowed to sign on dotted lines. 

Perhaps, for example, they should be briefed on how many thousands of Iraq vets have returned with PTSD, and how many of those have murdered members of their family.  Or how many of them and the other the injured — is the number in the vicinity of 30,000? — are ~still~ treated, even after the WP expose, by the Veteran’s Administration. 

Anyroad, Code Pink is an anti-war group, and I’m not sure but I don’t think they began participating in the protest until it was well underway.  It was begun by students.  I think the city council of Berkeley also ended up being involved and giving support to the demonstrators. 

Police brutality against demonstrators, which included young women and children, has also been reported. 

So, the DS may simply have been snowed.  If so, that wouldn’t be funny, either.

How come I’m not seeing any other comments here?