Top Leaderboard, Site wide
Shop the Truthdig Gift Guide 2014
December 24, 2014
Truthdig: Drilling Beneath the Headlines
Sign up for Truthdig's Email NewsletterLike Truthdig on FacebookFollow Truthdig on TwitterSubscribe to Truthdig's RSS Feed

Get Truthdig's headlines in your inbox!








Truthdig Bazaar
Havana Nocturne

Havana Nocturne

By T.J. English
$18.45

Acting Together: Performance and the Creative Transformation of Conflict: Volume I

Acting Together: Performance and the Creative Transformation of Conflict: Volume I

By Cynthia Cohen (Editor); Roberto Gutierrez Varea (Editor); Polly O. Walker (Editor); Dijana Milosevic (Contribution by); Charles Mulekwa (Contribution by)
$21.95

more items

 
A/V Booth

Clinton Comments on Rev. Wright

Email this item Email    Print this item Print    Share this item... Share

Posted on Mar 25, 2008
Clinton

Hillary Clinton says she would have left her church, were she in Barack Obama’s position, because “We have a choice when it comes to our pastors.”

Needless to say, Team Obama was disappointed “to see Hillary Clinton’s campaign sink to this low.”

You can read Clinton’s original statement here, and watch her defend the comment here.

The Obama campaign’s response can be found here.

Advertisement

Square, Site wide

New and Improved Comments

If you have trouble leaving a comment, review this help page. Still having problems? Let us know. If you find yourself moderated, take a moment to review our comment policy.

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 3:13 pm Link to this comment

As promised:
Obama is forced to admit his campaign played the race card: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXXjWy-OztQ&feature=related

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 3:12 pm Link to this comment

Just a few non-trivial lies from Obama:  His continual reference to his “Christian” faith”; his lies and omissions about his connection to a racist and anti-American “mentor and spiritual adviser”; his “alleged” continual opposition to the Iraq war; his denial regarding playing the race card; his denial that any meeting took place between his chief economic adviser and the Canadian official; his constantly changing testimony about his relationship with and monetary support from Rezko; his lie about a pharmaceutical lobbyist’s involvement in his campaign; his lie about his policies towards Pakistan; his lie about Yucca Mountain and nuclear energy; his lie about his former support for a single-pay health plan; etc. ***  Note: If I am allowed to post them, I will provide links to videos of Obama lying on camera, for the disbelievers out there.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 3:07 pm Link to this comment

Unfortunately, you are correct.

Report this

By lib in texas, March 26, 2008 at 2:55 pm Link to this comment

Sharon & Hinnis, I agree with you that I do not understand the blindness of the Obama endorsers.  They are acting just like the crazy right wing republicans who thought Bush could do no wrong until he finally screwed the country over so bad we may never recover. His campaign advisors are also acting the same way.  Ruthless !!!!
MSM is also to blame for a LOT !!!! I’ve learned there are many people in OKLA who voted for Obama in the primaries now want their delegates to back Clinton.  I believe this is where the Clinton’s are coming from when they made the statement that delegates are not Obligated to who won the primaries.
Also MSNBC has changed all of their e-mail addresses. That means they have gotten so many complaining e-mails they can’t stand it.  Pitiful!!!
I see someone on the post is trying to make out the
“The Family” a a religious international fellowship
that Hillary belongs to is something sinister.  Instead of believing some post on Huffington just Google it.  Gives you all the info you need!!!!

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 2:54 pm Link to this comment

As posted elsewhere, the theology that Wright has been teaching Obama and others is called black liberation theology, which is based upon the struggle between the white oppressor vs. the black oppressed.  This is why Wright refers to Jesus as black, and his killers as white, so that the story of Jesus fits within this brand of theology.  Wright cites James Cone, another black liberation theologist, as his inspiration. Here are just a couple of his quotes: 1.To be Christian is to be one of those whom God has chosen. God has chosen black people. 2.While it is true that blacks do hate whites, black hatred is not racism. 3.All white men are responsible for white oppression. 4.Theologically, Malcolm X was not far wrong when he called the white man the devil. 5.Black theology refuses to accept a God who is not identified totally with the goals of the black community. If God is not for us and against white people, then he is a murderer, and we had better kill him. The task of black theology is to kill Gods who do not belong to the black community … Black theology will accept only the love of God which participates in the destruction of the white enemy. What we need is the divine love as expressed in Black Power, which is the power of black people to destroy their oppressors here and now by any means at their disposal. Unless God is participating in this holy activity, we must reject his love.  ** The teachings of Obama’s “mentor and spiritual adviser” are racist and divisive

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 2:49 pm Link to this comment

Tequila:  If you truly believe that there is any rationality to your statement, that there is any true analogy here, I feel for you.  This is not an attack, but a gentle nudge to better think through your posts before you make them.

Report this

By Hemi*, March 26, 2008 at 2:38 pm Link to this comment

Can you all imagine a world where everyone of these
elected f*cks is making the sh*t up as needed?

There ya go! That’s a little taste of reality.
Bring on the third party f*cks! We need a new
pivot person in the circle jerk that is America.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 2:34 pm Link to this comment

During Hitler’s Germany, many if not most of the religious denominations in Germany were complimentary of him and his movement.  While I am in no way comparing Snyder to Nazi apologists, I am suggesting that hearing Rev. Wright on a couple of occasions is not the same thing as truly understanding his theology.  I am absolutely certain that if Snyder understood the fundamentals of black liberation theology, he would not have issued the statement; because to suggest otherwise would be to suggest that he is a racist, and I have no reason to believe that is so. Finally, am I to blindly follow and believe Snyder on Rev. Wright, or am I to believe my own eyes and ears?  I opt for the latter.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 2:25 pm Link to this comment

Is this all you have?  Your post may be funny to those who hate Hillary Clinton and share your sense of humor, but we have much more serious issues to discuss.  Yes, Hillary mischaracterized her arrival in Bosnia, however, that does not diminish the experience she is pointing to, including her experience as first lady.  The then-ambassador to that region was just on CNN last night talking about her substantial assistance in the resolution of that potentially dangerous affair.  Regarding Hillary’s seven trips to Ireland, this was an account from this week: While much credit needs to go to the people of Northern Ireland, Great Britan, and the Republic of Ireland, credit must go to the Clinton Administration as well.  President Bill Clinton appointed former Senator and Federal Judge George Mitchell to lead an international body to assist the participants in the peace process. Mitchell was the right person, at the right time for this job. His skills were evident when he learned the last person signed the agreement. Mitchell called a meeting of all parties 15 minutes later. That proved to be the right move to build relationships necessary to move the process along over the last decade.  But there is another person to thank for the ten year peace. That person is Hillary Clinton. She’s got women involved in the process. Many observers beleive that it was the women’s involvement that was the turning point in the negotiations.  George Mitchell said Hillary Clinton’s role was “significant.” Gerry Adams of Sinn Fein, John Hume of the Social Democrat and Labor Party, and David Trimble of the Ulster Unionists have said that Hillary Clinton was helpful in bringing the parties together. They not only say that now, but they said it back in 1997. Hillary Clinton visited Northern Ireland seven times, and knew - by name - the ninety members that were party to the negotiations.  I’m a John McCain supporter. But after hearing Barrak Obama and Dick Morris dismiss Hillary Clinton’s role in the peace agreement as ceremonial, I just had to set the record straight.”  *** So, Trigger Finger, you can continue to make jokes about this statement by Hillary, but a far more serious joke is the lack of Obama’s own experience.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 2:18 pm Link to this comment

Sharon:  This has been a real disappointment for me, also.  Throughout Bush’s tenure as President, I simply could not understand how his right-wing supporters could support him and his reactionary ideas.  And, they kept on supporting him no matter the consequences, and in spite of the obviously deceptive tactics of himself and Karl Rove. I, on my high horse, supposed that we Democrats would never fall for such garbage; that we were not so easily fooled.  Then, Obama began running his campaign of deception, and millions of Democrats flocked to him without knowing anything about his background or true beliefs.  Now, so many Obama supporters are acting identically to the right wing Bush supporters, in that they have made up their mind that Obama is their agent of “change”, and they will not allow any information to the contrary enter their minds.  I too am very disappointed in the Democratic Party.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 2:10 pm Link to this comment

No, he does not have any reason to be racist against white people or any other race, for that matter.  The actions of some should not indict all.  That’s what racism is about, and Wright personifies it.  Finally, I think many of us are getting rather weary of all of the excuses for racism.  Only when we all recognize that there is no excuse, will be begin to truly live as equals who respect the rights of all members of our society.

Report this

By mason, March 26, 2008 at 2:08 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

NAME CALLING. Really. I watch FOX too but instead of always watching (worshiping) FOX, I stopped taking someone else’s word for it. Listen to the entire speech yourself it is available. Also, Anderson Cooper has this article on his blog:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2008/03/21/the-full-story-behind-rev-jeremiah-wrights-911-sermon/

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 1:47 pm Link to this comment

Outraged:  I appreciate the civil nature of your post.  I don’t have a problem with black power, but I do have a problem with black racism.  If you study the basic theology to which Obama, Rev. Wright, and James Cone subscribe, it is based not only upon black power, but upon racism against the “white oppressor.”  On other posts on this site, I have several quotes from James Cone regarding his positions, and they are blatantly racist.  There is no “context” under which they could be otherwise interpreted.  I don’t expect you to believe me; I have suggested to others to first Google Jeremiah Wright and James Cone; once you’ve done that you will see that Rev. Wright follows the teachings of James Cone.  Then, either read my quotes, or read for yourself in Cone’s seminal book on black theology called “Black Theology and Black Power.”  I warn you that it is a hate-filled and depressing read, but it will give you a better insight into their “theology.”  Regarding Obama, he is a highly intelligent man, and to suggest that he had no idea that his “mentor and spiritual adviser” preached and subscribed to this racist theology is beyond belief.  Therefore, I have to conclude that Obama agrees with these racist beliefs. I wish it were otherwise, but it isn’t.  And, thank you for at least having an open mind on this issue.

Report this

By rachel, March 26, 2008 at 1:40 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

It cracks me up that the BO camp calls this obviousness a ‘low’.  She did the right thing by pointing out this obviousness.  We do ALL have freedom to choose our spiritual paths, why would someone that claims to love this country and be of ‘change’, observe this for 20 years, not to mention exposing his children to this racism… to grow up angry, hating the white man or woman, and thinking that the USA hates their race?  How is this a good quality?  It is obvious that Wright feels this way, consistently and in his heart, regardless of how many times he’s been caught on film.  Bottom line he represents something that America really doesn’t need right now.  Overall, Hillary is the best Dem Canididate to unify this country, as well as mend relations overseas—enact universal health care, provide equal rights to everyone not based on race, income level, sexual orientation, gender or age.  So far, with Obama, I’ve seen him lie about some serious matters, however, this whole ducking under fire Clinton fiasco is just superficial and doesn’t matter in the scheme of things.  She told a war story, an embellished story, has nothing to do with her foreign policy… so, simple minds will turn this into an ordeal, but in all honesty where is the substance in it?  Especially when you have BO attending a black supremacist church, that is equivalent to McCain or Clinton going to KKK meetings—-  this is a real situation with years of substance to back it up.  It would be very different if BO just started going to the church and hasn’t gotten to know Wright, but on the contrary, he has…  he stated that he is his ‘spiritual advisor’, ‘like family’ how can we think that he is right to lead our country?  Come on, wake up people.  He and his camp have created heaps of division, in so many ways already in the country, the Wright issue only validates all the others.

Report this

By Jewels, March 26, 2008 at 1:15 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

During the Clinton presidency, Bill and Hillary Clinton attended Foundry United Methodist Church. The senior minister at that church released the following comment on Rev. Jeremiah Wright.

“The Reverend Jeremiah Wright is an outstanding church leader whom I have heard speak a number of times. He has served for decades as a profound voice for justice and inclusion in our society.
He has been a vocal critic of the racism, sexism and homophobia which still tarnish the American dream. To evaluate his dynamic ministry on the basis of two or three sound bites does a grave injustice to Dr. Wright, the members of his congregation, and the African-American church which has been the spiritual refuge of a people that has suffered from discrimination, disadvantage, and violence. Dr. Wright, a member of an integrated denomination, has
been an agent of racial reconciliation while proclaiming perceptions and truths uncomfortable for some white people to hear. Those of us who are white Americans would do well to listen carefully to Dr.
Wright rather than to use a few of his quotes to polarize. This is a critical time in America’s history as we seek to repent of our racism.
No matter which candidates prevail, let us use this time to listen again to one another and not to distort one another’s truth.”

Dean J. Snyder, Senior Minister
Foundry United Methodist Church
March 19, 2008

Report this
Outraged's avatar

By Outraged, March 26, 2008 at 1:01 pm Link to this comment

Re: hinnis

I’m wondering…  If I say “woman power” or “girl power”  does that mean I hate men or boys?

Although I can say that when I hear “white power” I do think of the KKK and extreme racists.  I have to admit that when I hear “black power”, I don’t necessarily feel like they HATE white people.  This is just my personal feeling.

See, the meaning for me is different when a group has been held back or experienced prejudice.  It’s really not the same thing.  Obviously they(oppressed) are going to feel animosity toward their oppressor, what else could they feel?  I’m white and that doesn’t seem odd to me.  I don’t like or say “nice” things about those who oppress me.  Does one “feel bad” saying rotten rich people..? I don’t!

Being a woman, I many times have felt this way toward men who DO DISCRIMINATE against me, and there ARE those that do.  Have I EVER made the comment, F**k men!, sure, but I try to disern between those who actually DO it and those who are simply born MALE/MEN.

How many times have we heard or been accused of hating Clinton just because she’s a woman..?  Douglas Chalmers consistently does it, just ask Scheer.  And when she/he does, s/h consistently implies that everyone hates Clinton because she’s a woman.  I do hate Clinton, but not because she’s a woman.

Personally Rev. Wright’s soundbites I agree with, the facts are… the US of A, HAS engaged in some very debased practices, one of which would be invading Iraq without warrant. I’m not familiar with black liberation theology. I’ll try to get a chance to get to that here soon.

I would like a (non-attacking) response, seriously…because some of the things you are saying, COULD be true…but to make the blanket statements you are, as if in fact, THEY ARE TRUE, I think is a stretch and unwarranted.

Report this

By John, March 26, 2008 at 12:51 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If the MEDIA would have done a background check last year on Obama like they shined the spotlight on Hillary for the past 16 years, the voters would have KNOWN about Rev Wright and Obama would not have been SLIGHTLY ahead at this point. Heck Edwards probably would have been in the race longer than Obama!

For all ranting the Obama bloggers like to spew on Hillary, their candidate is ahead by only 1-2%! So are you so SCARED that the MEDIA will finally find something that makes Obama truly unelectable that you can’t wait to see what the VOTERS in the final primaries think of Obama’s electability??? I

f this were the INDY 500 Obama would be declared the winner on lap 300 by the Obamaites, or the Giants would have just given the Super Bowl trophy to the Patriots before the game was over!  Check out the Gallup poll! (47%-46%).

Report this

By Debbie Slade, March 26, 2008 at 12:44 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Okay, I assume the people posting here who talking about the 20 year attendance have never seen MALCOLM X, the movie because I have. PASTOR WRIGHT was quoting from MALCOLM X’s speeches. Pastor Wright referred to it as a footnote.

But more importantly Hillary was raised by a racist father who regularly referred to African Ameriacn’s as “niggers.” She also attended a segregated Methodist Church - pretty much all during her childhood and into adulthood. Hillary campaigned for Republican Barry Goldwater who was vehemently opposed to the 1964 civil rights bill. Hillary attended the 1968 Republican Convention. Obama was already an adult when started attending Wright’s church. Hillary was infected with racism from birth. Now let me ask you, who do ya think is more likley to be a racist?

It’s very rare for black parents to refer to instyill racist attitudes in their children. They realize their children have to navigate two worlds and survive in one - ummm… that would be the white one. Obama’s daughters are growing up in a upper middle class bi-racial family. Their parents are more concerned with academic performance and making sure their children make the right social connections and have the sort of values that would encourage them to fight for those less fortunate.

Report this

By p02, March 26, 2008 at 12:28 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Ms. Clinton now decides to comment on Mr. Wright’s sermon and states, ” I would have left that church”.  Well, it is my hope Ms. Clinton continues in a way that is fair to all.  When she campaigns in HEAVY CATHOLIC Penn. be sure to admonish the Catholics that have Priest that are having sexual relations with thousands of young boys.  It is my hope that she is consistent enough to tell those voters they should have left the Catholic church!!

Report this

By cyrena, March 26, 2008 at 12:26 pm Link to this comment

Joe in Maine writes:

•  “…Or it could be the reason they don’t answer is because they don’t have a clue who James Cone is. I didn’t until I read your posts.”

Well Joe in Maine,

You obviously didn’t read the responses here (at least my own response, and it is only to me that hinnis is directing this straw man red herring anyway).

But IF you had read, you could have and would have answered you own query above.

The truth is that I’m sure most folks DON’T know who James Cone is. That’s exactly my point. I’d be willing to bet money that Obama doesn’t know who he is. Or if he does, his ‘knowledge’ may be limited to what amounts to my own, which is very little. MOST people would not know who James Cone is unless they were scholars (seriously interested students) of theology or one of the social sciences, and then only in terms of what are often called secondary resource references. The only reason that I am even familiar with him, is because of my work in academia. However, because my work is not related to theology (aside from a few courses in religious studies, which did NOT include black liberation theology, but rather simply LIBERATION THEOLOGY as it developed in Latin America, along with the Asian religions) I have no use for it in my own work. So, do you really think that the average Joe in Maine, California, North Dakota, Illinois, Kansas, or New Hampshire would have heard of him?

My answer…NO! More importantly though, nobody CARES! It’s that simple. Had you ever heard of John Hagee before McCain sought and embraced his political endorsement? I hadn’t. It’s possible that some of my relatives have heard of him, (the ones who still practice their Catholicism, because John Hagee is a hater of Catholics) But I’d never heard of him until John McCain came up with him. Well, James Cone doesn’t even have THAT name recognition.

So, you’re right. Most folks don’t have a clue, and most folks don’t give a shit. The reason? He isn’t running for president, or any place in a new administration. He has no connection to Barack Obama, or anyone else of any significance. It’s like, I’m sure that none of us have a clue to who your dentist might be, or whether or not he uses ‘laughing gas’ on his patients, or what brand of Novocain he might inject you with. And, we don’t care.

So, the thing with hinnis, like all bashers of Obama and other residents of the gutter, is that he’s desperate for IED ingredients, (Insinuations/Exaggerations/Distortions) and so he drags out whomever or WHATEVER he can, and tries to build a connection for anyone who might be dumb enough to be dragged into it, or otherwise distracted by it.

But, nobody cares. So, even if anybody WAS to pay any attention to it, or even had a clue to who James Cone was, they would immediately see this for the red herring that it is, (and a smelly one at that). To buy into it, (or otherwise ‘take the bait’) would be seen as acknowledging that this had any significance at all, (James Cone’s rhetoric or philosophy) to the presidential elections. It doesn’t.

And so, there you have it. Hinnis has tried and failed as a propaganda smear artist. It’s that simple. He’ll have to go dig for different dirt now. This didn’t work.

Report this

By Conservative Yankee, March 26, 2008 at 12:13 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

By hinnis, March 26 at 7:58 am #

Wright is a Patriot????

I would guess the word is “Was” as in Wright WAS a patriot.

“But true to his racist nature, he is compelled to blame ‘whitey.’”

Of course in Wrights life he’s seen the Tuskegee project, the marginalization of his race, the murder of folks for using the “whites Only” bathroom The “Hoovering” of MLK so he really has no reason to suspect “whitey” of any down&dirty;actions…dose he?

Report this

By kenn, March 26, 2008 at 11:42 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

For somebody that´s not American and not leaving there either, i find your remarks quite soothing and briliant, unlike some so-called self proclaimed judge who thinks, they can sit back and judge their fellow beings instead of concentrating on the issues.

Report this

By vote4thebest, March 26, 2008 at 11:41 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Well, the double standard continues to march on between Clinton/Obama. Both mainstream and cable news carried the story about Clinton’s ‘mispoke about Bosnia’ while only Fox carried the Wright’s story. CNN’s exclusive with Obama on the Wright story (after days of ignoring it) was a sham because Anderson did not ask any real questions.  Clinton was called ‘liar’ while Obama was hailed as giving a historic speech when he is not only killing the party, he is also divisive, by not answering these real questions:

1. why do you stay for 20 years?
2. why do you still appoint Wright your adviser even though you remove him from the big event of announcing your candidacy?
3. why do you still let your children go to the church to hear Wright’s anti-white and anti-american preaching?
4. why do you not wear an American flag pin any more more?
5. why do you pick a new pastor who also believes in Wright teaching?
6. why do you do throw your grandma under the bus with a ‘typical white person’
7. why do you incite the Blacks and throw them under the bus by making it sound like all Blacks believe in Wright teaching?
8. why do you contribute large sum of $ to Wright?

Given this blatant discrimination, Clinton should be commended for fighting back! She may end up be the ‘savior’ for the democrats because of many people are now very concerned about Obama’s anti-american and anti-white’s belief.

Most, if not all politicians embellish and mispoke at various times.  Obama has done the same thing.  Between Clinton’s misspoke and Obama’s deliberate attempt to introduce a highly charge topic such as race to divide the country so that he can avoid answering the questions above, it seems that Obama’s action is more serious and dangerous to the country than Clinton’s.

Report this

By Sharon Ash, March 26, 2008 at 11:08 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The left has taught me one thing in 2008, and that is that they are simply as closed minded about Obama as are those on the right about Bush. The only real promise for ‘change’ in our country, is for a strong independent party to evolve.  There needs to be a political party for those of us who fall within that big bell curve in life.  i.e. normal

Report this

By Older and Wiser, March 26, 2008 at 11:04 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Things will only get more hectic when a little-noticed interview on NY1 channel’s “INSIDE CITY HALL” on Tues March 25, 2008 reaches national attention.  A prominent political legend, Percy Sutton, indicated that he had used his political influence to personaly grease the skids to get Obama into Harvard Law, at the request of a lawyer named “Kahlid” who was at the time representing an apparently oil-rich overseas potentate.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 10:53 am Link to this comment

Joe, to paraphrase a statement Jesus once said, forgive Aegrus, for he knows not what he is saying.  He obviously has no idea what black liberation theology is about, and his posts reflect that.  To you, Aegrus, I have a suggestion.  Read my post on this site about black liberation theology with the quotes from one of its main architects, James Cone (who also happens to be Rev. Wright’s mentor).  Then, if you agree with his racist and divisive rants, vote for Obama.  One more thing, if you don’t believe me, then do the research yourself.  Go on the web and Google Jeremiah Wright and James Cone.  You will quickly see the close connection.  Then buy one of Cone’s books which explain black liberation theology, and read it.  I might recommend his seminal book on the subject, “Black Theology and Black Power.”  (The quotes on this site that I gave regarding black liberation theology are directly from Cone’s books.)  Once you have educated yourself on this issue, unless you are a proponent of racism, I think you will see Obama and his “mentor and spiritual adviser” in quite a different light.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 10:46 am Link to this comment

Good point, although I’m married so I’d better not agree with the “hotter” statement smile  Seriously, I’m convinced that if America really understood the significance of Obama’s relationship with racism and anti-Americanism, his chances at gaining the nomination would dry up very quickly.  That is why, in my opinion, his camp is desperate to change the subject.  I guess this is the “change” he’s been talking about all along.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 10:35 am Link to this comment

Hey Aegrus - You’re so wrong on this post I don’t even know where to start. I’ll just reply to two of your erronious suggestions.

Do you think the Methodist church is a cult? I better go tell my mother’s side of the family that they need to get help. Oh wait. You don’t mean that “Family” fairy tail that was debunked immediately as being a complete fabrication and lie? You mean that one?

You may not need our votes but Obama does if he has any hope of winning in November. Let me ask you this. what percentage of Hillary supporters do you think you can piss off and keep home on election day and STILL win? Two percent? Five? Ten? Keep it up you Obamabots. Keep up the hate and division while preaching a message of hope and change. I’ll remind you that Nader sunk Gore by taking, what? Less than five percent of the democratic vote?

Maybe you should get used to saying, “President McCain.” That’s what your unelectable messiah is going to provide for us.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 10:24 am Link to this comment

You are delusional. Are saying the videos we all saw on an endless loop were some how fabricated? Are you telling us that you can prove that Rev. Wright did not say those things I watched him say on video tape? Are you trying to deny that he blamed HIV/AIDS on the US Government? Are you denying that he denounced the nuclear attacks on Japan to end WWII accusing the US of complicity in 9/11.

He didn’t say those things?

Or are you trying to make some assumption about what that man believes. And this is based on what proof exactly?

Mistake that Obama didn’t walk away. Yes.

Spin - That Obama needed Wright to advance his political career so he couldn’t denounce him without implicating himself?

False - You mean like “I never heard those statements” replaced with “Did I hear them? Yes.” That kind of false?

Validity - You mean like answering a question directly. Question: Obama, why stay in the church? Answer: Because my grandma was a racist too. That kind of valid arguement?

Not all of us are drinking the Kool-Aid Aegrus. Rev. Wright is Obama Kryptonite. His powers of deception are useless now. So are yours.

Report this

By Aegrus, March 26, 2008 at 10:19 am Link to this comment

Typical White Person. Here are some suggestions.

1) If you have such damning evidence against Trinity, go to the press. Hell, send mail to the New York Times, Boston Globe, CNN, NBC and ABC claiming all your truths so everyone can know how right you are.

2) Get some reading comprehension skills. Reverend Jeremiah Wright is is no way comparable to Hagee, Falwell or Robertson. This is not true because of his race, but because his remarks lack the vicious hatred of a specific group of people as the former do.

3) Come to terms with your bigotry. Seeing how Reverend Wright’s comments do, indeed, lack the venom and hatred expressed by many other religious officials. Know your condemnation of a black man for saying things which are controversial and untrue while excusing Hillary for being part of a fascist Fellowship, excusing McCain for Hagee and not condemning Falwell/Robertson makes you biased racially. It’s clearly evident coming to terms with your prejudice is the first step to cleansing yourself of it permanently.

I don’t need you to vote for, or like, Barack Obama. If you can’t see what is best for America, I just feel sorry for you. Obama will be the next President of the United States, though. Get used to the idea of a black president.

Report this

By Aegrus, March 26, 2008 at 10:10 am Link to this comment

Obama’s mentor is not a racist. You are a fear monger. You’re talking about a few clips, which do not represent a thirty year career. It’s a mistake. It’s spin. It’s false. Your argument lacks validity.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 10:07 am Link to this comment

Or it could be the reason they don’t answer is because they don’t have a clue who James Cone is. I didn’t until I read your posts. Being informed and making a good decision for whom to support in a campaign is a complex one on one end of the people scale and an easy one at the other.

I wonder if Hillary would have a beer with me?

How refreshing would it be to have a beer with someone who could talk extemporaniously and intelligently about their position on the issues instead of directing me to a staff-written position paper on a web site?

Hillary could speak as easily about nuclear non-prolifieration and the soverenty issues that divide Tibet and China as she could about creating jobs in PA or Ohio. After a few beers I bet she gets hotter too. Maybe.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 10:02 am Link to this comment

Joe, I agree totally with your post above about how Obama supporters can never answer a question directly.  It’s as though they all went to the Karl Rove school of misdirection.  I’ve been asking Cyrena (and any other Obama supporter on this post, for that matter) to merely address the issue of whether they agree with the statements of James Cone in my post on Obama’s religion, black liberation theology, and not one person has the courage to answer the question.  And you know as well as I, Joe, that the reason they cannot answer the question is that they cannot and will not face their own prejudices and double standards; it is just too painful for them.

Report this

By Alex Johnson, March 26, 2008 at 9:50 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Actions speak better than words.

Mr Obama choose Mr. Wright as his spiritual teacher for 20 years and included Mr. Wright in his election staff, these are the actions of Mr. Obama.  When shocking hate messages began to flow from the mouth of Mr. Wright on television, hyperbole spin was written for Mr. Obama distancing Mr. Obama from Mr. Wright.  The weird thing is, some people actually believe the spin written by Mr. Obama’s election machine.  But regardless what Mr. Obama says, he chose Mr. Wright as his spiritual teacher for 20 years and added Mr. Wright to his election staff. 

If you make the choice to listen and learn from Hitler every week over 20 years, do you expect me or any other rational being to believe that you wouldn’t be or want to be influenced by Hitler’s ideas?  And what does that say of your personal integrity if you chose American hating Mr. Wright, or Mr. Hitler as your guide in life?

And also consider recent announcement that the chief of the firm involved in the State Department’s passport breach is one of Obama’s adviser.  And that Obama has been caught lying about Rezko, regarding the amount of money Rezko gave him, and that Obama still hasn’t come clean about his Rezko land deal.  Or further, how Mrs. Obama makes a phenomenal $317.000 a month at a hospital in Chicago that is famous for turning away the poor, especially the black poor. 

If Obama were to become president, what would stop Mr. Obama from appointing Mr. Wright to his cabinet?  And after Mr. Wright’s appointment, if anyone complained they would be called racist.  And it seems as if this strategy - that it is racist to criticize a black man - is already in effect as Mr. Obama can do anything corrupt with minimal impunity by the public or the press.  But if Hillary so much as sneezes, she is taken through the laundry and hung out to dry and then beaten some more.  Such bias treatment towards Mr. Obama because of his race is racial discrimination.  And I believe another reason why Mrs. Clinton is unfairly criticized to such an extreme is because the men of this country can’t stand the idea of a woman for president.  Think about it.  It seems a lot of powerful men in the media will do anything to keep Hillary Clinton from being president; clearly a libido thing.

We should have as our country’s leader someone with wisdom and knowledge, whose goal is the selfless betterment of the world. We should not elect someone with a personal agenda of personal power or select them because of the fashionably of their race or the preference for a gender.

Report this

By Trigger finger, March 26, 2008 at 9:40 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Back in 68 I had just taken a bullet in my shoulder which came right through the sand bags protecting our fox hole. As I was being propped up in my fox hole by two fellow combat grunts, I notice that one of my mates was a woman and I’m thinking as I’m bleeding to death that I don’t have much time left. I couldn’t help but stare at this girl because she looked just like Hillary Clinton. I tried to ask her if she was Hillary but I was too week to talk and just then I passed out. Next thing I knew I woke up in a base hospital in Texas.  I lived, but I am still curious if that was Hillary in my Viet Nam fox hole with me? Hillary was that you?

What?  I was never in Viet Nam? Sure I was, I remember the rockets and grenades exploding all around my fox hole, and the jets dropping all the bombs nearby! 

That was a nightmare? Are you sure?

Ok. I guess I mispoke!  What’s for breakfast?

Report this

By Disgusted, March 26, 2008 at 9:27 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Typical White Person:  I totally agree with you. The media who have been fawning over Obama for months said it was a great speech, but there was nothing great about it. It was just a politician trying to divert attention away from his lies and bad judgement.  What’s historic about that?

Report this

By Typical White Person, March 26, 2008 at 9:22 am Link to this comment

Finally some new air being put into the Hose of Obama. Thank-you, I love the non-issue of Aergus only because it speaks against obama. Your calling hinnis a racist just because he/she doesn’t agree with the Obama factor, That make you a racist, with that being said, I wont go on and on with useless drivel, I’ll just say you are full of poop. I have talked to people that have been to Trinity, I have also been there for weddings and baptisms.and some of the people I know have gotten up and walked out, found another church.and I do remember quite a few people here slamming Rev. Hagee for saying the exact same thing , which way do you want it? Ok for a black man to say hateful thing but not ok for a white man, that’s racist.

Report this

By JF - NY, March 26, 2008 at 9:18 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hey Guys, lets check this out!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xq8aopATYyw&feature=related

(REAL GOOD)

Report this

By Typical White Person, March 26, 2008 at 9:09 am Link to this comment

Groundbreaking, it was crap. If he was the man you seem to think he is, he wouldnt have had to been forced into a speech. I cant wait for the “Barrack Obama,I knew MLK, and you sir are no MLK” speech.

Report this

By Hemi*, March 26, 2008 at 9:07 am Link to this comment

It’s all bullsh*t. If you think either of these
(pardon the expression) “highly educated” people
still believe in god you are fooling yourself.
No matter what they claim and despite making a
show of appearing in a pew from time to time,
it is only for the sake of the simpleton voters that require
that of their leaders.

And the simpletons require leading. That’s how the current
commander in thief got us where we are now. What was that
crap he spewed?  Oh yes:

“I trust God speaks through me and without that, I couldn’t do my job.” - GWB

He simply didn’t clue us in to what friggin’ “God” was speaking
through him. I think the correct term for that is being “possessed”.
And I think the “God” he was referring to was either Haliburton
or Saudi Aramco. We’ve seen him kneeling at those altars.

So, Bush, Barack or Billary come out of a church on Easter Sunday
and smile and wave. You get all warm and fuzzy inside. They must
be good people right? They humble themselves before God. Not!!!
They simply pander to your archaic fear that people can only have
conscience or morals or what ever you want to go calling it by fearing
an invisible judge and jury. Most of the movers and shakers of the
world have you by the short hairs folks. They know what the score is
and they know how to push your buttons. They fear no human and
they fear no “God”. That does not mean that these people are good
or evil, it means we have to judge them by their deeds and not their
profession of faith. Obama got into this whole mess not because he
needed to belong to that particular church but because that particular
church got him the backing of the most simpletons in Chicago. And
now his association with those simpletons jumped up to bite him in the ass.
Ouch!!!

If you think that Obama was in need of this man as a “father figure” for
his ascension into adulthood you are being deceived. He needed to associate
with this man for his ascension into Illinois politics. No one in their right mind
thinks that Obama is on this fanatical bandwagon to take down white America.
Well maybe just Obama’s wife and I did say “right mind”. She seems a snotty,
vindictive sort so at least we can figure if elected he’ll leave the interns alone.

That must have been some tete a tete with Clinton being churched by Jesse Jerkson
on the evils of womanizing. Imagine the war stories told there.

Back on point, they’re in the know and you just wont see it. So this game of
my faith is truer than yours goes round and round. No one admits the truth and
no one demands it. They all do what is necessary to get elected and then do
whatever the hell they want with “blessings from God” and the simpletons.

“The Bible is a book that has been read more and
examined less than any book that ever existed.” – Thomas Paine

Report this

By Typical White Person, March 26, 2008 at 9:01 am Link to this comment

Get off the racist bullshit, if anything is this country is said that puts blacks(Thats right blacks , not African Americans, but black Americans) in a negative light even if it,s the truth, it’s the white mans fault, Well I for one am sick of being called a racist because I don’t feel like the welfare state works, or because I disagree with Sharpton,Jackson or Obama and Wright. I have Biracial members in my family and they are fed up with the all the crap, of the great emancipators ,white liberal America feeling guilty for not falling all over Obama, and not defending Rev. Wright. Well find some one else to blame. Obama is a snake and now is running scared, Ohh Hillary better drop out now, and just give in. Bullshit, The Dems set up this process, it’s coming back to bite them in the ass. So if Hillary wins the popular vote, and Obama wins the delegates, wouldn’t that be just the way you all wanted it when, Gore won the Popular and Bush won the electoral. You guys want it both ways all the time. Just amazing. and if your want to hear about being a typical white grandmother raising two biracial kids during the sixties,just ask me.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 8:58 am Link to this comment

Expat:  Congratulations, you win the award for one of the biggest stretches since Magic Jordan made one of his wonderful jump shots.  I will give it to you reasonable and truthful criticism of the government is a foundation of our democracy.  The problem with Wright is two-fold:  (1) Some of his assertions are just downright ridiculous, like the unprovable assertion that the U.S. government developed the AIDS virus to kill black people.  And, the more ridiculous the assertions, the more suspect a reasonable person would become in assessing his true intentions.  (2) The other problem I have with his criticisms of the government is that they are all couched in terms of the “white man” against the “black man.”  This is an overly simplistic and racist viewpoint which does not deserve respect in political discourse.  I would have had much more tolerance for his statements if he instead, referred to the perpetrators of his alleged injustices as, for example, “those who run this country.”  But true to his racist nature, he is compelled to blame “whitey.”

Report this

By C.C in Pa, March 26, 2008 at 8:47 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

This is all a bunch of BULL. I just want to know “what” Michelle and Barack are teaching their children. Their children also attend this church and listen to this pastor’s hateful preachings about race. Wright is a bigot and a racist….call it like it is. Obam still atends the church to this day? Thats disgraceful since IF he becomes our president , he represents everyone in this country…not just the racist public. I thought well of Barack early on but no longer feel he is respectable. This is not a KKK country and How DARE Pastor Wright state “God Damn America” . You know what Pastor Wright? leave this couhntry if you hate it so much. What are these two teaching their children?

Report this

By Typical White Person, March 26, 2008 at 8:42 am Link to this comment

NBC, CBS, MSNBC, ABC, All said his speech was fantastic. it was uniting, and we should all just move on and forget about it. Fox put Rev. Wright out front last year, ignored by all the major networks. Obama was the one with the Words mean everything reply to Hillary. Obama can not do wrong here.

Report this

By Expat, March 26, 2008 at 8:28 am Link to this comment

^ agreement was the title..AHHHHHHHHHHHH, I don’t agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/03/obamas_unconvincing_speech.html

This says exactly what many of us have tried to in this forum. I encourage you to all to read it and take his questions seriously.

Report this

By Expat, March 26, 2008 at 8:25 am Link to this comment

^ because his pastor is not anti American.  His pastor is totally pro American in the true spirit of America.  America represents the best we humans can be; and our constitution is a proclamation of those lofty ideals; the things we should aspire to be; the possibilities for our future.  A future free of war, tyranny, despotism, and an affirmation of our rights as humans on this planet!  Anything less is slavery and we should rail against this to the last body.  This speech was not forced, but rather inspired.  It’s the embodiment of what it is to be an American in America.  If you missed this I’m sorry for you.  You have forgotten what America is.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 8:24 am Link to this comment

Joe, I agree totally with your post above about how Obama supporters can never answer a question directly.  It’s as though they all went to the Karl Rove school of misdirection.  I’ve been asking Cyrena (and any other Obama supporter on this post, for that matter) to merely address the issue of whether they agree with the statements of James Cone in my post on Obama’s religion, black liberation theology, and not one person has the courage to answer the question.  And you know as well as I, Joe, that the reason they cannot answer the question is that they cannot and will not face their own prejudices and double standards; it is just too painful for them.

Report this

By Amber, March 26, 2008 at 8:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Here’s part of what he said:
““The Reverend Jeremiah Wright is an outstanding church leader whom I have heard speak a number of times,” Snyder wrote. “He has served for decades as a profound voice for justice and inclusion in our society. To evaluate his dynamic ministry on the basis of two or three sound bites does a grave injustice to Dr. Wright, the members of his congregation, and the African-American church which has been the spiritual refuge of a people that has suffered from discrimination, disadvantage, and violence. Dr. Wright, a member of an integrated denomination, has been an agent of racial reconciliation while proclaiming perceptions and truths uncomfortable for some white people to hear. Those of us who are white Americans would do well to listen carefully to Dr. Wright rather than to use a few of his quotes to polarize.”

The rest ->http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/25/pastor-of-clintons-forme_n_93418.html

Report this

By Ola Dug, March 26, 2008 at 8:21 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Actions speak better than words.

Mr Obama choose Mr. Wright as his spiritual teacher for 20 years and included Mr. Wright in his election staff, these are the actions of Mr. Obama.  When shocking hate messages began to flow from the mouth of Mr. Wright on television, hyperbole spin was written for Mr. Obama distancing Mr. Obama from Mr. Wright.  The weird thing is, some people actually believe the spin written by Mr. Obama’s election machine.  But regardless what Mr. Obama says, he chose Mr. Wright as his spiritual teacher for 20 years and added Mr. Wright to his election staff. 

If you make the choice to listen and learn from Hitler every week over 20 years, do you expect me or any other rational being to believe that you wouldn’t be or want to be influenced by Hitler’s ideas?  And what does that say of your personal integrity if you chose American hating Mr. Wright, or Mr. Hitler as your guide in life?

And also consider recent announcement that the chief of the firm involved in the State Department’s passport breach is one of Obama’s adviser.  And that Obama has been caught lying about Rezko, regarding the amount of money Rezko gave him, and that Obama still hasn’t come clean about his Rezko land deal.  Or further, how Mrs. Obama makes a phenomenal $317.000 a month at a hospital in Chicago that is famous for turning away the poor, especially the black poor. 

If Obama were to become president, what would stop Mr. Obama from appointing Mr. Wright to his cabinet?  And after Mr. Wright’s appointment, if anyone complained they would be called racist.  And it seems as if this strategy - that it is racist to criticize a black man - is already in effect as Mr. Obama can do anything corrupt with minimal impunity by the public or the press.  But if Hillary so much as sneezes, she is taken through the laundry and hung out to dry and then beaten some more.  Such bias treatment towards Mr. Obama because of his race is racial discrimination.  And I believe another reason why Mrs. Clinton is unfairly criticized to such an extreme is because the men of this country can’t stand the idea of a woman for president.  Think about it.  It seems a lot of powerful men in the media will do anything to keep Hillary Clinton from being president; clearly a libido thing.

We should have as our country’s leader someone with wisdom and knowledge, whose goal is the selfless betterment of the world. We should not elect someone with a personal agenda of personal power or select them because of the fashionably of their race.  And we should see past the scared libidos in the media trying so hard to keep a woman from succeeding.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 8:17 am Link to this comment

One more thing to Aegrus:  Fighting or exposing racism in others does not make oneself a racist.  I am against the racism of the KKK as I am against the racism of Obama’s “mentor and spiritual adviser” of 20 years.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 8:15 am Link to this comment

Let me make this simple for some of those who are having a hard time figuring out this issue of Obama’s 20 year close relationship with his racist and anti-American “mentor and spiritual adviser.”

2 + 2 = 4
Sympathizing with, explaining away, or condoning racism = racist.

There, does that make it easier?

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 8:11 am Link to this comment

Yeah somehow I think attacking Hillary for not leaving her husband might be closer to the core of your hatred of her. So many women have expressed outrage that she never left her husband. I’ve heard so many people assume that the reason she stayed with him was to advance her political career. How the hell do you know? Did she tell you that? Are you projecting?

What’s the old saying about a woman scorned?

Isn’t that exactly why Obama can’t leave his Chruch of Hate? He needed the support early in his career and can’t afford to throw them under the same bus he shoved grandma? Poor grandma.

She might, possibly, actually LOVE her husband and daughter too much to run away from a marriage problem. It’s easy to run, so hard to hide.

Comparing Hillary’s marriage issue, keeping Chelsea in a family and Obama bringing his daughters to a Church of Hate is a terribly weak arguement, but it does help remind people of the scandel. Isn’t that exactly what you’re accusing Hillary of doing by mentioning Wright yesterday in an interview? Shame on you!

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 8:07 am Link to this comment

Yes, expat, it took a lot of guts for Obama to give yet another speech; yes, the one he was forced to give after the press outed his sordid relationship with his racist and anti-American “mentor and spiritual adviser.” You call his attempt at damage control a ground breaking speech; many of us call it for what it was—yet another attempt to fool Americans into believing that he is the great “uniter.” Obama’s 20 year affiliation with and respect for one of the most vile and hateful racists I’ve ever had the displeasure to encounter pretty much disqualifies him as a uniter. It does, however, qualify him for the “hypocrite of the year award.” Maybe he can put it on the same shelf that Farrakhan has placed the “lifetime achievement award” given to him by Obama’s church.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 8:01 am Link to this comment

No, Saddler, but many of us wish that Obama had chosen to attend a church for 20 years whose pastor (as well as his “mentor and spiritual adviser”) was not a racist and anti-American.  Obama knew what he is doing, after all, his supporters would never accede to the notion that his is naive or stupid.  His 20 year devotion to this twisted “theology” shows agreement to it, and that offends many who decry racism and hate.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 7:56 am Link to this comment

Louise:  Although possibly not important to you, racism and judgment are very important issues in this election.  I would ask you, if Hillary had been going to a “white centered” church for 20 years; the fundamental theology of the church was one of white versus black, wherein blacks are blamed for all of the world’s ills; the pastor of the church often made racist remarks against blacks, as well as anti-American statements, some of which had no basis in reality; the pastor of the church gave David Duke a lifetime achievement award; and Hillary considered this pastor her “mentor and spiritual adviser”; would you consider this issue to be unimportant and non-dispositive of her character?  I doubt it, and even if you would, I guarantee you that Obama would use this issue against Hillary, the media would fall in line (as usual), and her career would be over, period.  Enough of the double standars and hypocrisy.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 7:55 am Link to this comment

The Obamabots will no doubt trot out their flawed Catholics should have walked out too arguement.

If it came out that Hillary belonged to an all white country club for 20-years and paid $20,500 a year to be a member, would ABC, CNN, CBS, or NBC be forgiving her all sin if she gave a 37-minute speech on why loving golf can unite us all?

Ahhhh. No. I don’t think so.

How about if she gave an interview and used the phrase, “Typical Black Person” to describe anyone including Dr. King.

The would have tied her to a rail and called for her removal from the senate.

There is nothing fair about this election. Nothing.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 7:48 am Link to this comment

He’s uniting people alright. Omamabots scream that Hillary is polarizing. Humph. So Obama is going to make racism the center issue in the campaign? All he has done is make certain that the Wright-Wing will rally like you’ve never seen in our lifetime against the liberal who goes to the Anti-White, Anti-American, Crazy-Speak Church of Hate.

That’s more polarizing than Hillary could ever have been. He will be skinned alive in the general. You’re fooling yourself if you believe otherwise.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 7:47 am Link to this comment

Yes, Jacob, I also would not sit quietly in a pew and listen to the hateful, racist and anti-American rants of Obama’s minister, UNLESS I AGREED WITH THEM.  Obviously, Obama does just that.  He believes in them enough to subject his innocent children to years of hate-filled rhetoric from this wack job “mentor and spiritual adviser,”  and as Wright said, “not even bat an eye.”  Terribly bad parent; terrible choice for President.

Report this

By Louise, March 26, 2008 at 7:34 am Link to this comment

We had slavery once. But we stopped that. Then we had segregation. But we stopped that too. Sorta. And along the way we wiped out hundreds of thousands of Native Americans. But we stopped that too. After we got them all relocated where they didn’t want to be, and we couldn’t see them.

But not to find ourselves idle, we also tried to re-work the values of most of our neighbors on those islands, or in those other America’s. The ones that were a different color for the most part. Or didn’t want to let us own their property and country.

Busy, busy little bees, our meddling in all things “other” on this side of the ocean didn’t slow us down one bit. We went across the ocean and re-adjusted a few “colored” folks over there. Come to think of it we’re still doing that.

Meanwhile good church going folks have been busy all these years, teaching themselves and their posterity that every death was actually a good and great thing. That every piece of land stolen, and every government interfered with was for the greater good. OUR greater good. And every once in a while a preacher, or reverend, dared to speak out and call us on our cruelty. Our selfishness. Our most decidedly un-godly behavior. If the preacher was white, he was hailed as a visionary. If he was black he was condemned.

So I guess in the big scheme of things, the proud trouble maker Christians of the great and good America haven’t changed a whole lot, have they?

Weak faith, with the focus on ME, not THEM or HIM seems to be the order of the day. Just as it always has been with the majority of god-fearing white Christians.

Oh well. It’s only our country that’s on the line. It’s only the lives of thousands of Iraqis, and our own dear troops that are getting snuffed. It’s only our treasury and our future and our values and our very lives that are at stake here, so we need to focus on really important stuff. And for that I guess we owe Hillary Clinton a debt of gratitude.

She is firmly focused on really important stuff. Well important if you have trouble looking beyond the end of your own nose anyway. Kudos’ to Hillary. She would leave her church if her reverend said something she knew her constituents wouldn’t like.

She would put her “faith” in her hand-bag and go shopping for a new church. One that would be more to the liking of those constituents who love to hate everybody who’s a different color. Good for her. That’s real stand-up-man-ship, eh?

Courage in a shopping bag. Faith on the open market. Conviction on the auction block. God as a “personal” political drum major. Yes indeedy, Hillary is a real leader. Thanks goodness nobody is asking her to take real substantive positions on real life and death issues. We wouldn’t want to confuse her supporters, now would we ...

And God would never damn us, right? I mean he’s given us the faith and the vision to put evil men at the head of our government. And the courage to self-destruct at their bidding, right?

That’s not damming folks, that’s NOT being there. And that’s not God’s fault that’s OUR fault.

And while I’m on the subject of God, I find it offensive in the extreme that these so-called leaders end every one of their speechifications with an order to God. “God bless America.” A sure and simple way to clearly define faith and values. Ordering God around!

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 7:34 am Link to this comment

Yes, expat, it took a lot of guts for Obama to give yet another speech; yes, the one he was forced to give after the press outed his sordid relationship with his racist and anti-American “mentor and spiritual adviser.”  You call his attempt at damage control a ground breaking speech; many of us call it for what it was—yet another attempt to fool Americans into believing that he is the great “uniter.”  Obama’s 20 year affiliation with and respect for one of the most vile and hateful racists I’ve ever had the displeasure to encounter pretty much disqualifies him as a uniter. It does, however, qualify him for the “hypocrite of the year award.”  Maybe he can put it on the same shelf that Farrakhan has placed the “lifetime achievement award” given to him by Obama’s church.

Report this

By hinnis, March 26, 2008 at 7:28 am Link to this comment

Lib:  It’s all they have; one has to feel sorry for them. It’s getting harder and harder for them to ignore the truth; that their Messiah just might not be the agent of “change” they had hoped for.

Report this

By lib in texas, March 26, 2008 at 7:25 am Link to this comment

And Joe it didn’t take you 25 paragraphs to say what you had to say. But as I keep saying the Obamaholics
DON"T care if anything is true or not just spew forth.

Report this

By Tequila, March 26, 2008 at 7:22 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

If Hillary wouldn’t have Rev. Wright as a pastor, then she MUST disown Bill Clinton. Her spouse lied to the entire country when he committed adultery in the white house. Not only was he an infidel but he committed a crime by lying. Hillary had the choice to disown this infidel but she chose to stay. HILLARY IS NOT IN ANY POSITION TO JUDGE OBAMA’S RELATIONSHIP WITH REV. WRIGHT.

Report this

By lib in texas, March 26, 2008 at 7:12 am Link to this comment

Jaded Prole, you crazy Obamaholics, I have never read the nation before but it must be an unreliable bunch.
The Fellowship or Family is a international fellowship nothing secret or sinister.  Before you post things like you just did look the GROUP up all you have to do is GOOGLE.
But then I guess your kind doesn’t care whether something is true or not.  Why didn’t this author give you the SCOOP about this group??? Because there is nothing earth shaking about it.
Do Conservatives belong also???  Yes they do. Do you have conservatives in your church?  I bet you do.

Report this

By Robert Lewis, March 26, 2008 at 6:49 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright land transaction at   http://www.webofdeception.com

Rev. Jeremiah A. Wright land transaction from his Jeremiah Wright Trust to Trinity Church.
Land is at: (Odyssey Country Club)

Kenneth Lewis sells the land to Wright and then Wright sells it to the church.A
ten million dollar mortgage and 8.2% interest rate .

Report this

By CC, March 26, 2008 at 6:36 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Wright is a racist and spreads hate. I have one question for Michelle Obama and Barack :
What are you teaching your children by continuing to go to this church where this man spreads hate AND your children hear this! What are you teaching your children?

This is why there is a problem in this country. My lord, why must we perpetuate racism and hatred? Wrights preachings do this. This is not the nation of KKA. OUR children should only hear of the KKK from historical textbooks… Martin Luther King would not have done anything like this. he understood the word UNITE and bring together.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 6:01 am Link to this comment

What a beautiful post. I really enjoyed this story. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 5:58 am Link to this comment

rtl3:

Show us even one example of where Obama showed that exact leadership example you site. Is there any evidence anywhere that Obama stood up for America and told Rev. Wright he was wrong? Ahhhhh no. He instead gave Wright $20,500 in financial support, enough I’m sure to start an ecommerce web site that sells the sermons of hate so many people find objectionable.

Leadership? What Obama has done is prove he believes the preachings of his radical pastor. Nothing less.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 5:53 am Link to this comment

Hinnis - Aren’t you sick of how Obama and his supporters answer only the questions they want to, not the ones we reasonably ask?

Question: Why did you stay with Wright’s church?

Answer: A 37 minute speech that redirects the blame for racisim back to the rest of us.

Question: Why did you stay with Wright’s church?

Answer: Hey lokk at this picture we found that shows Clinton in the same frame with Pastor Disaster!

Please. This is pure political manuvering. It’s just a strategy that may be enough to get him through the democratic nomination but will kill him in the general.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 5:47 am Link to this comment

I know that the woman I support in this race is capable of embellishing a story. I guess you must believe that your candidate is not.

Obama has been caught in numerous misstatements and outright lies. That must be a huge blow to the Dream Catchers and Rainbows Wing of our party. Yeah. Right now your candidate is doing things you only thought the Clintons did. I guess Obama wasn’t kidding when he wrote in one of his books that “many if not all of my (his) supporters would be dissapointed in him.”

You must be one of those, huh?

Report this

By Jaded Prole, March 26, 2008 at 5:47 am Link to this comment

Hillary Clinton has no room to criticize Obama’s minister considering her vile religious evangelic affiliations. She is the worst example of cynical power politics and will do everything in her power to make sure that Obama losses to McCain so she can run again in four years.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 5:37 am Link to this comment

I’m starting to believe that you see racism everywhere you look Cyrena. Don’t agree with Obama? You MUST be a racist! I disagree.

It’s OK not to personally like a political candidate. That doesn’t make you a racist or a sexist. It means Manni/whoever doesn’t like Obama.

Please stop putting a white hood over everyone you find that doesn’t think Obama is the right choice.

Or were you perhaps trying to dismiss an arguement you disagree with by marginalizing the speaker by accusing him of racism? That’s ugly.

Report this

By Joe Sixpack, March 26, 2008 at 5:26 am Link to this comment

Oh you found your Gotcha! moment Cyrena! Good for you and your fellow Obama supporters are able to stand together and yell, “SEE!!! Clinton was seen in public with Rev. Wright too! See!!! Na Nah Na Na Na Nahhh! Please. Grow up.

There is a HUGE difference between inviting many religious leaders into the same room for a prayer breakfast and attending the Church of Hate for 20 years. To believe otherwise is biased, as of course you are as an Obama supporter. That fact is obvious but your support of this concept is a sneaky political strategy that needs to be exposed and denounced.

Let me illustrate the point for you.  Imagine the work done in the White House in preparation of the annual prayer breakfast. It would have been a low- level White House staffer assigned to compile a list of religious leaders to bring in to the White House. He or she would have compared the list to the previous year’s guest list, checked with the protocol advisor, and then run the final list by the Secret Service. If there were any security questions from The Service, the questionable invitee’s history would be run by the FBI. He did not need to be politically vetted for a social event. Had he been vetted he would certainly not have been invited to the White House or, in the case of Obama, personally uninvited to give the prayer the day a presidential campaign started. So short of Rev. Wright having a history of violence, and apparently he did not, so he was allowed to attend a social occasion including an appearance by The President and The First Lady. Can you believe it (GASP!) even a photo was taken!

To compare the two is a calculated political strategy. Nothing less.

Mr. Obama must have learned early that support of the Trinity church was a crucial part of a successful political career in Chicago. He embraced Rev. Wright for; 1) Purely Political Reasons, 2) Purely Spiritual Reasons, or 3) Some mixture of both.  My guess is that because Obama has called Wright his spiritual mentor and the book Wright inspired is responsible for over half of Obama’s 2007 income, Obama stayed 20 years for more than purely political reasons.
   
Why did he remain a congregant? Clearly he must agree with the preachings of his church. What other conclusion can a resonable person draw from this? Could he believe more of those sermons than he would have us believe? I have to believe he does. We all watched a speech where Obama both pulled Rev. Wright closer as well as denouncing a very small number of his words. During that speech he excused the hateful rants of his church that accuse the US Federal Government of genocide, as well as screaming, “God Damn America” by exposing the private fears of his 85-year old, sickly white grandmother. Some people really will run over their own grandmother to become President.

He’ll never convince me that the two compare in any meaningful way. I believe deflecting attention from the fact that Obama financially supports a pastor most Americans believe hates America by giving a 37 minute speech. This ‘historic address’ on race convienently and collectively forced our attention away from his guilty association and onto the larger race issues. This was a calculated political strategy of diversion that Obama uses almost daily in the campaign and now accuses Hillary of today. He never addressed the question of why he continues to be a member of this church. Sorry, that’s not good enough. Do words matter or not?

Report this

By Expat, March 26, 2008 at 5:12 am Link to this comment

^ by Hillary.  Do not pass go, do not collect $200 and go directly to jail; but, on the way, re-listen to Obama’s ground breaking speech.  It should humble you because you haven’t got near his guts.

Report this

By Aegrus, March 26, 2008 at 5:08 am Link to this comment

hinnis, the only person here who is racist and anti-American is you. I’m really sick of hearing people discuss Reverend Jeremiah Wright as if they know the man personally. Nothing he said could be equated to the vicious, anti-American hate speech of other known preachers like Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson. Just because you saw a couple of YouTube clips does not mean you know who the man is, or his work of thirty years.

If you had ever spoken with the people in his parish, or those who have attended any of his sermons, you would know the vast majority of the words mentioned are about upward mobility and empowering the poor and all things relating to Christ.

No one who actually attends Wright’s sermons, other than Barack, has been really questioned about any of these statements. I don’t find anything particularly hateful about anything Wright said, and I am miles away from his congregation. I’m not even associated with Christianity, and I can find no fault in his statements about the violence of our government.

Maybe people should start realizing a few things about this non-issue:

1)Barack isn’t responsible for what adds up to one and one half minutes of words spoken by his pastor.

2)Even if he were, a church is more than one man. To think everyone who goes to a church believes 100% with everything their reverend, pastor, rabbi, priest says is ridiculous. Church is a social setting, and it is assured there were probably other things Obama was trying to accomplish at Trinity.

3)Wright’s words weren’t even all that bad. The AIDS story reflects a legitimate, even if distorted, perception many people hold. Nothing seriously anti-semitic has ever been said by Wright.

Why don’t you take responsibility for Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson? You know, those people who saw the suffering of 9/11 and Hurricane Katrina then decided they should mock their suffering, blame sinners and use these terrible incidents as a way to further their own careers? Wright is not the worst Christian I can think of by any measure. Get your facts straight.

Start criticizing Hillary Clinton for her “nasty pastorate” associated with Nazism and Sam Brownback, Ed Meese, John Ashcroft, James Inhofe, and Rick Santorum.

Report this

By Phenix, March 26, 2008 at 4:53 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Honestly from the snippet of the sermon that I heard, the only thing that I heard that could be considered wrong is “God Damn America” he should’nt have said that. Other than that, in the clip that they showed on CNN I saw nothing else really wrong. Yes, it should’nt have been said in church, but was it wrong? I don’t think so. I mean, HRC wasn’t a “black boy raised in a single parent home” and I sure she doesn’t know what it feels like to be called the N word or live in a country controlled by rich white people. In hearing this, I didn’t see how a person can take offense, because quite frankly she doesn’t. Coming from the pastor of a majority AA church I simply take this as a observation, that maybe just maybe were finally getting a president who understands the plight of AAs, and other minorities for that fact because he is one. Then there’s the 9/11 comments. While they definetly should not have been said, his comments are no different then those of Pat Robertson.

I think that pastor Wright could have been a lot more wise with what and how he communicated things, but I don’t think he should look at Obama as though he’s just a horrible person because he chose to keep this man as his pastor. I’m sure every sermon wasn’t like the few that have been shown, and I am sure that he did disagree with some of the things he said, but if everytime someone disagreed with a friend of family member, they cut them off, there would be no growth. I think its hard for us sometimes to let go of people who mean a lot to us, even when we see their faults, especially if we can understand where they come from.

It’s not an excuse and it doesn’t make it right but I think we all must remember that slavery only ended two seconds ago. My grandmothers, grandmother was a slave, and while I think we as AA should stop using it as an excuse, it still was a race with a 400 year headstart for the “white” community. We still had seperate restrooms 60 years ago, and to everyone who grew up in that time, it may be hard to let go of some of the feelings that built up. Not saying its right, not saying a pass should be given, just simply saying lets look at the entire picture and have some understanding and not try to cast stones simply because something another person said has rubbed us the wrong way.

Report this

By jo, March 26, 2008 at 4:31 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The good thing about this whole circus is that there are far more people in the country that are going to vote for Obama than there are on these silly blogs.

Start practicing; President Barack Obama!

Report this

By Emmanuel Allan, March 26, 2008 at 3:39 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Lying about her experience in international conflicts, hidding her income records… She wouldn’t be my choice for president!

Report this

By C.C, March 26, 2008 at 2:56 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hinnis….You are so right and what are Obama’s children learning? PERPETUAL hate and racism. What is with this whole thing?. Why is Jeremiah Wright even held in any regard? He is obviously anti-American and what do we say to those anti-Americans? LEAVE this country if you find it so pitiful. I can not even believe Americans are this blind…no wonder we still have the president we currently have in office. I thought Americans were blind then, now I know this to be true. Wright a spiritual advisor? Wright a mentor? For what? He preaches hate and if this is what Obama and his wife (Michelle) show their children, that is pretty sad.I will not vote for him because of this.

Report this

By C.C., March 26, 2008 at 2:14 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

“We have a choice when it comes to our pastors.”
If Jeremiah Wright can defame this country then LET her speak!If he dislikes this country so much the GET OUT… Wright is a racist bigot who spreads hate and racism. I am tired of black America holding everyone responsible.Hillary spoke what alot of what Americans feel themselves. Everyone is afraid of this issue but somehow this has to come out and Obama must answer to the fact he still attends this “racist” church and BRINGS his children to a church where they preach hate and racism. This my friends is what is wrong here,  Hillary was being the frank, point blank person she has always been and I admire that. Wright and Obama and Michelle and possibly their children are racist…. WAKE UP AMERICA, my lord are we back into the 1960s??? are we going to start doing LSD again and smoking Pot to get away??? How do the Obamas tell their children that what Wright is preaching is ETHICALLY and MORALLY wrong???

Report this

By nuqueen1, March 26, 2008 at 2:06 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Faux Noise exposed! See what low-down snakes Slant Hannity and Bill Orally are. See the real sermons of Rev. Wright uncut, unparsed.  Then decide!!!
GD America
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RvMbeVQj6Lw&feature=related

Chickens coming home
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=QOdlnzkeoyQ

Report this

By editcetera, March 26, 2008 at 1:24 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The longer the campaigning continues, the worse both of them look. Frankly, at 52, it doesn’t look like I will ever get to vote for someone other than the lesser of two evils… What a great day it will be when a candidate doesn’t give a speech thanking “god” for this or that. That’s the person I am waiting for. Sigh.

Report this

By don, March 26, 2008 at 1:20 am Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

by Frank Schaeffer
Obama’s Minister Committed “Treason” But When My Father Said the Same Thing He Was a Republican Hero


When Senator Obama’s preacher thundered about racism and injustice Obama suffered smear-by-association. But when my late father—Religious Right leader Francis Schaeffer—denounced America and even called for the violent overthrow of the US government, he was invited to lunch with presidents Ford, Reagan and Bush, Sr.

Every Sunday thousands of right wing white preachers (following in my father’s footsteps) rail against America ‘s sins from tens of thousands of pulpits. They tell us that America is complicit in the “murder of the unborn,” has become ” Sodom ” by coddling gays, and that our public schools are sinful places full of evolutionists and sex educators hell-bent on corrupting children. They say, as my dad often did, that we are, “under the judgment of God.” They call America evil and warn of immanent destruction. By comparison Obama’s minister’s shouted “controversial” comments were mild. All he said was that God should damn America for our racism and violence and that no one had ever used the N-word about Hillary Clinton.
Dad and I were amongst the founders of the Religious right. In the 1970s and 1980s, while Dad and I crisscrossed America denouncing our nation’s sins instead of getting in trouble we became darlings of the Republican Party… We were rewarded for our “stand” by people such as Congressman Jack Kemp, the Fords, Reagan and the Bush family. The top Republican leadership depended on preachers and agitators like us to energize their rank and file. No one called us un-American.

Consider a few passages from my father’s immensely influential America-bashing book A Christian Manifesto… In 1980…it sold more than a million copies.

Dad’s chapter on civil disobedience:
“In the United States the materialistic, humanistic world view is being taught exclusively in most state schools…  And we really must not be blind to the fact that indeed in the public schools in the United States all religious influence is as forcibly forbidden as in the Soviet Union ....

This brings us to a current issue that is crucial for the future of the church in the United States , the issue of abortion…”

Was any conservative political leader associated with Dad running for cover? Far from it…Dad became a hero to the evangelical community and a leading political instigator. When Dad died in 1984 everyone from Reagan to Kemp to Billy Graham lamented his passing publicly as the loss of a great American. Not one Republican leader was ever asked to denounce my dad or distanced himself from Dad’s statements.
Take Dad’s words and put them in the mouth of Obama’s preacher (or in the mouth of any black American preacher) and people would be accusing that preacher of treason. Yet when we of the white Religious Right denounced America white conservative Americans and top political leaders, called our words “godly” and “prophetic” and a “call to repentance.”

The hypocrisy of the right denouncing Obama, because of his minister’s words, is staggering… They are the same people that (in the early 1980s roared and cheered when I called down damnation on America as “fallen away from God” at their national meetings where I was keynote speaker…

Today we have a marriage of convenience between the right wing fundamentalists who hate Obama, and the “progressive” Clintons who are playing the race card through their own smear machine…Both the far right Republicans and the stop-at-nothing Clintons are using the “scandal” of Obama’s preacher to undermine the first black American candidate with a serious shot at the presidency. Funny thing is, the racist Clinton/Far Right smear machine proves that Obama’s minister had a valid point…

Frank Schaeffer

Report this

By cyrena, March 26, 2008 at 1:14 am Link to this comment

No Maani…I mean hinnis…(I’ll have to get used to your new name)

Don’t take it as an affirmation of anything, because I made very clear in my response to you, that I don’t agree or disagree with ANY statements of which I’m unaware, and that includes those of James Cone.

I’ve NOT read James Cone’s book on black liberation theology, although I AM aware of the book. I’ve not even read his 2 earlier publications, because whatever they may contain, (that I might possibly be interested in) have been covered in other work.

So again MAANI, there is no issue of whether or not I agree or disagree with what he has to say. I don’t KNOW what he postulates, so that’s it. I certainly don’t accept YOUR plagarism of his work as presented in a post that is supposed to cover what was in a book containing some 200 pages. (That much can be confirmed from a google search).

As for any ‘argument’ on my part…I didn’t present one. I posed a simple enough question and task for you. I asked you to give me your opinion on something very relevant to the article that we’re discussing here…Hillary Clinton’s remarks on Rev. Wright. That’s what we’re discussing here, so I asked you to provide us with your thoughts on the occassion of Rev. Wrights visit to the White House, during the time that the Clinton’s were in residence there.

That’s it. Hillary is passing some opinions on the guy now, (even though that has nothing to do with the presidential election campaign, or her own qualifications to be president) so I thought you might have some thoughts on the fact that this very same man was once a guest of she and her husband.

That’s it hinnis/maani. No argument…no position of my own, (I don’t care that he was there) but just a question to you.

But, like your other persona, you simply change the subject, or twist the thing around to create another IED.

Now, in case you wonder how you’ve been so easily identified as simply a ‘hater of Obama’, you haven’t once mentioned anything about the other candidates, INCLUDING Hillary Clinton, despite the fact that THIS article is respective to what SHE is saying.

So…in just 8 comments hinnis/maani, you’ve given yourself away.

So, out of curiosity, who do YOU support for president? The only thing you’ve managed to convey on this blog, is that you hate Barack Obama. Naturally, one has to wonder why?

But, I suspect we know.

Report this

By Saddler, March 26, 2008 at 12:10 am Link to this comment

Would she rather his preacher share her aggressive positions against Iraqis, and the poor of her own country?

Report this

By Daniel, March 25, 2008 at 11:52 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

You say it “takes a real leader to stand up and debate with someone you respect and to stand your ground and fight for what you believe in.”

So Obama stood up to Wright by handing him around a quarter of a million dollars, then forked over his own children to be infected with Wright’s hate?

Wow, that is truly extraordinary determination in the face of enormous odds! So if your beloved Obama somehow becomes our nation’s president and we are again attacked by terrorists, maybe in another brave and fearless act, he will offer your state (possibly with you in it) as a sort of gift, right, to overwhelm and defeat those nasty terrorists? I get it now. The logic is stupendous! Brilliant! He is a genius. And you are smart, too.

Report this

By Linda, March 25, 2008 at 9:46 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

United Methodist Church - also Bush & Cheney’s told Bush don’t start the Iraq war

Iraq War ‘Unjustifiable’, says Bush’s Church Head by Ed Vulliamy in New York Oct, 2002
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1020-02.htm
President George Bush’s own church has launched a scathing attack on his preparations for war against Iraq, saying they are ‘without any justification according to the teachings of Christ’.

Jim Winkler, head of social policy for United Methodists, added that all attempts at a ‘dialogue’ between the President and his own church over the war had fallen on deaf ears at the White House.

His remarks came as the US continued its efforts to achieve agreement on a UN resolution that would open the way for a tough program of weapons inspections in Iraq. France is believed to be concerned that the current draft resolution might still act as a trigger for military intervention without a full Security Council debate if Iraq fails to comply.

The Methodist Church, he says, is not pacifist, but ‘rejects war as a usual means of national policy’. Methodist scriptural doctrine, he added, specifies ‘war as a last resort, primarily a defensive thing. And so far as I know, Saddam Hussein has not mobilized military forces along the borders of the US, nor along his own border to invade a neighboring country, nor have any of these countries pleaded for our assistance, not does he have weapons of mass destruction targeted at the US’.

Report this

By hinnis, March 25, 2008 at 9:32 pm Link to this comment

By the way, you still haven’t answered the question, yet.  I’ll just take that as affirmation that you agree with the racist statements of Rev. Wright’s mentor, James Cone, and we can leave it at that.  On that note, I need to get some sleep.

Report this

By hinnis, March 25, 2008 at 9:23 pm Link to this comment

How pitiful your argument must be, when your best defense is to equate a one-time meeting at the White House with Obama’s 20 year relationship with his racist and anti-American “mentor and spiritual adviser.”  Doesn’t this comparison even look silly to you, once you’ve had time to reflect on it.  It’s kind of like saying that Joseph Goebbels and a guy who met Hitler once share the same responsibility for the rise of Nazism.  How sad it is the extent to which Obama supporters will rationalize and justify the unjustifiable, i.e. racism.  I think the only good that will come out of Obama’s candidacy is that many Americans will finally say “enough” to these kinds of double standards and hypocrisy.

Report this

By treetracker, March 25, 2008 at 9:14 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

The MSM has hyped the Rev. Wright story in an effort to discredit Sen. Obama and his pastor. Below are links to two of the complete sermons. Heard in FULL context you will not find them disturbing at all. These are the only two that I have found that are complete so far. He is not damning America, only damning her when she acts like God, as Rome was damned when she acted like God (according to the Bible). The “Chickens coming home to roost” comment was a quote Rev Wright took from from Amb. to iraq, Richard Peck who had been on Fox News the previous day and said it…he is a white guy. The point of the sermon was to STEP BACK from the precipace…hate begets hate, revenge begets revenge and innocents will be killed. These are very moving sermons and it appears those rich white people who own the media are controlling the message that we in the masses receive. My guess is they want to keep those tax rebates and keep us heading down the path of war so all their investments in the war machine will continue to make money. How sad that we gobble it all up as the truth. This is their version of ‘let them eat cake.”

http://essence.typepad.com/news/2008/03/listen-to-rev-j.html

http://essence.typepad.com/news/

Listen to the sermons completely, think about them, learn the truth.

Report this

By hinnis, March 25, 2008 at 9:11 pm Link to this comment

Just as I thought; cannot answer a question that is so simple to answer.  One either sympathizes with racist views or one doesn’t.  If you can’t even bring yourself to denounce the statements made by James Cone, then it is obvious in which category you belong.

Report this

By Marco Grimaldo, March 25, 2008 at 9:07 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

I am astounded a the level of ignorance in some of the comments offered here. Those of us who have experienced oppression and studied the Gospel message of Jesus Christ have often gone searching for deeper meaning in the teachings of the church.  For many of us, liberation theology has brought us closer to understanding God’s will for us and to a certain extent, the very nature of God’s grace and forgiveness.  Liberation theology originated in the Latin America and was espoused by Bishop Oscar Romero and his contemporaries.  It has unique and authentic roots however that also come from the Black experience in the United States and that is what Rev. Wright has referenced in his sermons.  I’m sorry if people who were not present during these sermons are now offended, but perhaps if you were there and had a relationship with the congregants, you might better appreciate the sentiment, even if the meaning of the words.  One final note, James Cone may have written a book entitled Black Liberation Theology (Vol. Iⅈ) but he didn’t write it alone.  It is in fact an edited collection of esasys from noted theologians and scholars.

Report this

By cyrena, March 25, 2008 at 8:55 pm Link to this comment

^ for Hinnis

I’m posting this as a reminder to you, since you never did tell me what you thought about Wright’s visit to the White House during the Clinton years. (at least the ONE visit we know about).

Now of course I don’t particularly CARE, (as made clear by my earlier posts). HOWEVER, since YOU DO, why don’t you investigate this for us. Find out what they talked about, see what Hillary was wearing that evening, and whether or not she served him coffee, tea, or whatever. See who else might have been there, (this was an event for various leaders of various religious communities).

I’ve provided some links to get you started. Maybe you can find out what HRC thinks about all of the black liberation theology. (photos included - Willie Clinton and Wright. (Wright is a handsome fellow BTW)

==================
“The Politico—Rev. Wright was a White House guest at least once during Clinton years: Sen. Barack Obama’s former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has sparked controversy with things he has said about whites and about the nation. And that controversy has caused political trouble for Obama, a member of the pastor’s church for 20 years. In stories about Wright, Politico’s Ben Smith writes, he has been cast “as a marginal, almost fringe figure, but Trinity Church is a major Chicago institution, and Wright has long been a prominent pastor on the American scene. And an anonymous blog set up to defend his church offers some compelling photographic evidence of this: A photograph of Wright and President Clinton, which it says was taken on Sept. 11, 1998—the date of a White House gathering for religious leaders.”

Then-first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton (now Obama’s rival for the Democratic presidential nomination) was also at the event, according to records of her daily schedules that were released this week. “In the course of his two terms in office, Bill Clinton,” and presumably Hillary Clinton as well, “met with, corresponded with and took pictures with literally tens of thousands of people,” Clinton spokesman Jay Carson told Politico.

Update at 10:53 a.m. ET. Courtesy of Politico, we now have a copy of the photo showing Rev. Wright with then-president Clinton.”

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/03/whats-new-12.html


http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/2008/03/my-pastor-has-represented-us-well.html

Report this

By marvin, March 25, 2008 at 8:53 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

And Hillary in 1964 would not have been in MLK’s church either. She was a disciple of the anti-MLK, Barry Goldwater.

Report this

By cyrena, March 25, 2008 at 8:52 pm Link to this comment

^ for Hinnis

I’m posting this as a reminder to you, since you never did tell me what you thought about Wright’s visit to the White House during the Clinton years. (at least the ONE visit we know about).

Now of course I don’t particularly CARE, (as made clear by my earlier posts). HOWEVER, since YOU DO, why don’t you investigate this for us. Find out what they talked about, see what Hillary was wearing that evening, and whether or not she served him coffee, tea, or whatever. See who else might have been there, (this was an event for various leaders of various religious communities).

I’ve provided some links to get you started. Maybe you can find out what HRC thinks about all of the black liberation theology. (photos included - Willie Clinton and Wright. (Wright is a handsome fellow BTW)

==================
“The Politico—Rev. Wright was a White House guest at least once during Clinton years: Sen. Barack Obama’s former pastor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright, has sparked controversy with things he has said about whites and about the nation. And that controversy has caused political trouble for Obama, a member of the pastor’s church for 20 years. In stories about Wright, Politico’s Ben Smith writes, he has been cast “as a marginal, almost fringe figure, but Trinity Church is a major Chicago institution, and Wright has long been a prominent pastor on the American scene. And an anonymous blog set up to defend his church offers some compelling photographic evidence of this: A photograph of Wright and President Clinton, which it says was taken on Sept. 11, 1998—the date of a White House gathering for religious leaders.”

Then-first lady Hillary Rodham Clinton (now Obama’s rival for the Democratic presidential nomination) was also at the event, according to records of her daily schedules that were released this week. “In the course of his two terms in office, Bill Clinton,” and presumably Hillary Clinton as well, “met with, corresponded with and took pictures with literally tens of thousands of people,” Clinton spokesman Jay Carson told Politico.

Update at 10:53 a.m. ET. Courtesy of Politico, we now have a copy of the photo showing Rev. Wright with then-president Clinton.”

http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2008/03/whats-new-12.html

http://truthabouttrinity.blogspot.com/2008/03/my-pastor-has-represented-us-well.html

Report this

By Julie, March 25, 2008 at 8:37 pm Link to this comment
(Unregistered commenter)

Hillary did NOT listen to her church or she would not have voted for the Iraq war - United Methodist Church - also Bush & Cheney’s

Iraq War ‘Unjustifiable’, says Bush’s Church Head by Ed Vulliamy in New York Oct, 2002
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines02/1020-02.htm
President George Bush’s own church has launched a scathing attack on his preparations for war against Iraq, saying they are ‘without any justification according to the teachings of Christ’.

Jim Winkler, head of social policy for United Methodists, added that all attempts at a ‘dialogue’ between the President and his own church over the war had fallen on deaf ears at the White House.

His remarks came as the US continued its efforts to achieve agreement on a UN resolution that would open the way for a tough program of weapons inspections in Iraq. France is believed to be concerned that the current draft resolution might still act as a trigger for military intervention without a full Security Council debate if Iraq fails to comply.

The Methodist Church, he says, is not pacifist, but ‘rejects war as a usual means of national policy’. Methodist scriptural doctrine, he added, specifies ‘war as a last resort, primarily a defensive thing. And so far as I know, Saddam Hussein has not mobilized military forces along the borders of the US, nor along his own border to invade a neighboring country, nor have any of these countries pleaded for our assistance, not does he have weapons of mass destruction targeted at the US’.

Report this

By cyrena, March 25, 2008 at 8:25 pm Link to this comment

You clearly do not have to do MY homework for me Hinnis. Now THAT would be something akin to me accepting educational advice from a crackpot, or attending Liberty University, (the Law School of Pat Roberts, from which a large percentage of the White House staff has been drawn).

Now I didn’t hear you ask the question about whether or not I agreed with the statements made by James Cone.

I’m not in a position to answer that, because I’ve not read any of the books that James Cone has written, because I’m not interested in Theology. I’m an agnostic.

Far MORE importantly however, is the fact that neither James Cone or Jeremiah Wright is running for president, so I don’t much care what they think or say.

I HAVE read the full text of the sermon the Wright made, from which these snippets were taken out of context, and USED to create IED’s for the distruction of Barack Obama, and discovered that these were NOT comments that required an agreement or disagreement. Rather, they were simply…THE TRUTH.

I never heard him say that the ‘government’ was responsible for developing and/or deliberately infecting black people with the HIVAIDS virus. IF he said that, (and I still haven’t been able to verify that he did) then yes, I WOULD disagree with that. I don’t believe that.

I DO believe, (because it is a well documented case of egregious horror) that the US government DID conduct an ‘experiment’ on 399 black men, over a period of 40 years, that exploited them and created much misery. It was the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment. Read all about it here:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html

I suspect that if Wright ever made any mention of such a thing, it was THIS that he was referring to. So, you can let me know what YOU think about these sorts of acts.

Meantime, you can continue to ‘assume’ all you want, about whether or not Barack Obama knows and understands the theology of black liberation, but I’m equally allowed to assume otherwise. Since Barack Obama is several years younger than I am, and from a similar multi-racial background, (identifying himself with the people of color, since that’s pretty obvious and the way things go down in this society, and have for nearly 300 years) I can assume that if I never bothered paying any attention to it, he probably hasn’t either.

Having grown up in the 50’s and 60’s, and having been extensively educated in the more liberal areas of the country, I HAVE studied the works and philosophies of both Martin Luther King, Jr. and Malcolm X, along with the philosophies and work of Mahatma Gandhi and other practitioners of the Theory of Non-Violence. These were all religious men in their own entities, and so their philosophies could in fact be taken as some form of a “Theology”.  Again, as a non-religious agnostic, I don’t.

And, I’m not gonna bother to read James Cone either, in order to answer your questions. I don’t care. Like I said, neither James Cone nor Jeremiah Wright is running for president, and I’m not into ‘theology’.

Rather, Barack Obama is, and I fully support him, even though I disagree with a few of his stated positions. For now, that isn’t even important, because I don’t know the rationale behind those positions or what else might be involved in his considerations.

However, let me make very clear, NONE of my own disagreements with Barack Obama’s stated positions have a damn thing to do with where he attends church, or who is pastor is. If it was up to me, I’d recommend that he not HAVE a pastor, OR go to church!!

But…that’s just me.

Report this

By hinnis, March 25, 2008 at 8:19 pm Link to this comment

If Hillary had been going to a “white centered” church for 20 years; the fundamental theology of the church was one of white versus black; the pastor of the church often made racist remarks against blacks; the pastor of the church gave David Duke a lifetime achievement award; and Hillary considered this pastor her “mentor and spiritual adviser”; would you give her the pass that you are giving Obama.  I doubt you could answer this question honestly, so I’ll tell you what would happen:  The righteous indignation of Obama and the media would rise up, the demand would be made that Hillary withdraw from the nomination process immediately, and Hillary’s political career would be over, period.  The double standards and hypocrisy must stop.

Report this

By hinnis, March 25, 2008 at 8:08 pm Link to this comment

Cyrena, I noticed that rather than answering my question, you bring of the monumentally important issue of Hillary’s mischaracterization of her trip to Bosnia ten years ago.  Back to my question, do you agree with the statements in my post from James Cone?

Report this

Page 3 of 4 pages  <  1 2 3 4 >

 
Right 1, Site wide - BlogAds Premium
 
Right Skyscraper, Site Wide
Right 2, Site wide - Blogads
 
Join the Liberal Blog Advertising Network
 
 
 

A Progressive Journal of News and Opinion   Zuade Kaufman, Publisher   Robert Scheer, Editor-in-Chief
© 2014 Truthdig, LLC. All rights reserved.

Like Truthdig on Facebook